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El Salsero Gringo
25th-April-2005, 12:06 PM
A couple of threads are going at the moment with the topic of crowded dance floors. Apologies if that has been polled before (the last thread I can find finished up about a year ago), but how do you feel things should be changed (if at all)?

Are you aggrieved that your favourite dance is becoming more popular than you'd like? Should the organiser impose lower limits on the number of dancers? I guess that most venues have a safety limit imposed by the local authority according to the number of fire exits and such, but this is probably far more than a comfortable number on the dance floor. How would you feel about being turned away from the door because the venue was 'full'? Would you be prepared to pay more if that kept the numbers down? What about 'invitiation only' evenings? Or having to collect tokens from a class night in order to get guaranteed entry to a freestyle?

As far as I can see there are lots of ways to limit numbers, but they're all a bit rubbish, and I'll just vote with my feet if a venue is too busy - but how does everyone else feel about it?

David Bailey
25th-April-2005, 12:17 PM
How would you feel about being turned away from the door because the venue was 'full'?
I very nearly was turned away on New Years Day at Finchley, the place was creaking at the seams. I'd certainly have been miffed - and I only live 5 minutes away. If I'd had to travel, I'd have been mightily cheesed-off.


Would you be prepared to pay more if that kept the numbers down? What about 'invitiation only' evenings? Or having to collect tokens from a class night in order to get guaranteed entry to a freestyle?
No, no, and, err, no. I agree, these are all silly ideas :)

These things usually get known about; if it's too crowded, it gets a rep as being too crowded. Hammersmith is a classic example of this. So you know what to avoid at least, if you keep track of word-of-mouth reputation.

There's probably an ideal number of dancers per dance floor footage, any more than which gets "crowded". May be interesting to work this out...

Ultimately, the venue organisers will of course have a vested interest in getting as many feet-on-floor (dance equiv of bums-on-seats) as possible, so suggestions for methods to reduce this number will not normally be well-received, I imagine.

stewart38
25th-April-2005, 12:24 PM
These things usually get known about; if it's too crowded, it gets a rep as being too crowded. Hammersmith is a classic example of this. So you know what to avoid at least, if you keep track of word-of-mouth reputation.

There's probably an ideal number of dancers per dance floor footage, any more than which gets "crowded". May be interesting to work this out...

Ultimately, the venue organisers will of course have a vested interest in getting as many feet-on-floor (dance equiv of bums-on-seats) as possible, so suggestions for methods to reduce this number will not normally be well-received, I imagine.

I think in the long run these things sort themselves out without the need for any changes.

If lots of people dont go back to tea dance because its too crowded it will probably be filled by a few less people who want to see what all the fuss is about :whistle:

El Salsero Gringo
25th-April-2005, 12:24 PM
Of course the other solution is for people to sit out more dances. I wonder how many people who whinge about over-crowding selfishly spend every track on the floor instead of relinquishing the space for someone else?

("...I've bl**dy well paid my entrance fee and I'm going to dance every bl**dy track that bl**dy DJ plays because I've not paid good money to watch other dancers...")

stewart38
25th-April-2005, 12:29 PM
Of course the other solution is for people to sit out more dances. I wonder how many people who whinge about over-crowding selfishly spend every track on the floor instead of relinquishing the space for someone else?



Over crowding can be 'dangerous' but we have all taken the odd knock or bruise I guess

I dont think people 'whinge' about it, they just mention it and people preception of what is overcrowded varies (try guildford ceroc 1997 for 'real overcrowded !') .

For example I thought Hammersmith was crowded but it def wasnt over crowded others may think differently

Graham
25th-April-2005, 12:35 PM
I don't think there's a perfect answer, but for special events which the organisers expect to reach capacity (eg Christmas parties) then I'm quite happy to buy tickets in advance. It's worth noting that it's quite difficult for organisers to tell how busy the dance floor will be, even when they know how many people have bought tickets, since an unknown number of people will arrive late/leave early/sit out a lot.

Piglet
25th-April-2005, 12:43 PM
I think in the long run these things sort themselves out without the need for any changes.

:yeah: I did get miffed on an occasion or 2 when our smallest venue was overcrowded but it has become reasonable again.

Besides, its great to be able to watch other dancers at times or have a bit of a yap. I reckon I'm pretty happy with the status quo in Aberdeen, but we are lucky having 3 different venues and 3 nights to choose from :D

philsmove
25th-April-2005, 01:10 PM
One thing I would like to see is a little more “policing “

E.g.

checking chairs and tables do not encroach on to the floor
The guy who does out of controll spinning aerials on a crowded floor is told were to go
And my big bugbear people standing chatting

David Bailey
25th-April-2005, 02:17 PM
One thing I would like to see is a little more “policing “

E.g.

checking chairs and tables do not encroach on to the floor
The guy who does out of controll spinning aerials on a crowded floor is told were to go
And my big bugbear people standing chatting
:yeah: :yeah: Excellent idea. Some people would benefit from a tactful and gentle talking-to about usage of space...

Hey! We could have a "smelly people" policeforce as well - obviously GarlicLory would be the first up against the wall... :)

Zebra Woman
25th-April-2005, 02:22 PM
Hey! We could have a "smelly people" policeforce as well - obviously GarlicLory would be the first up against the wall... :)

Yeah ...but be careful what body parts you press on to get her there :eek:

David Bailey
25th-April-2005, 03:38 PM
Yeah ...but be careful what body parts you press on to get her there :eek:
Strangely enough, I was going to make a smutty entendre-comment about the wall thing, but I thought "Nah, someone else will make it for me". And there we are...

At least we haven't descended to the Yorki-bar-in-pockets level of some threads I could mention :)

Gus
25th-April-2005, 05:51 PM
I thought that Amir's suggestion of running more events was the best idea I heard. More choice of dance, thins out the numbers, more opportutntiy to have cake!

ChrisA
25th-April-2005, 08:10 PM
I thought that Amir's suggestion of running more events was the best idea I heard. More choice of dance, thins out the numbers, more opportutntiy to have cake!
..... :yeah:

Now that you're a Londoner :devil: you'll find out about the M25 effect.

I do think more events is a Good Thing.

But I also think that more good events will pull in more people. So eventually, we'll be back to square one. :tears:

... unless the trend towards more events, more good DJs, teachers, venues, etc, continues fast enough, in which case the growth is a good thing.

But in the meantime, if the demand outstrips supply, something has to give.

Inconsiderate dancers tend not to be so bothered by the lack of space and consideration from others, so the people that are driven away are the ones that care.

Is this good?

Swinging bee
25th-April-2005, 08:52 PM
A couple of threads are going at the moment with the topic of crowded dance floors. Apologies if that has been polled before (the last thread I can find finished up about a year ago), but how do you feel things should be changed (if at all)?

Are you aggrieved that your favourite dance is becoming more popular than you'd like? Should the organiser impose lower limits on the number of dancers? I guess that most venues have a safety limit imposed by the local authority according to the number of fire exits and such, but this is probably far more than a comfortable number on the dance floor. How would you feel about being turned away from the door because the venue was 'full'? Would you be prepared to pay more if that kept the numbers down? What about 'invitiation only' evenings? Or having to collect tokens from a class night in order to get guaranteed entry to a freestyle?

As far as I can see there are lots of ways to limit numbers, but they're all a bit rubbish, and I'll just vote with my feet if a venue is too busy - but how does everyone else feel about it?

A way that we have found works very well is to limit numbers, and ask the punters to kindly email or telephone in advance if they are coming.
Also ask that if they need to cancel, to let you know by email or phone.
Keep a running list of those booked on your desktop and add & amend accordingly, along with a reserve list of names & contact numbers or email addresses should anyone have to cancel. This means you can sometimes fit people in at the last minute.
It does take a little time to organise, but it makes for greater comfort on the dancefloor, which our dancers always appreciate.
We run our joint dances in Maidstone like this with John Miller from JAG Jive.
John Miller also uses the same policy when organising his own dances in Surrey, which almost always sell out well in advance.
So far, we have sold out at Rianos every time, and have been able to slot people in by phoning them on the night if we get a cancellation. Just remember to take your mobile phone to your dance venue with you.
When organising joint dances, we cross-reference our list by email to avoid duplications.
Everyone seems to be happy with this booking system, and it also encourages people to book early for the next dance :clap:

Lynn
25th-April-2005, 10:03 PM
I think if numbers are going to be limited (and they have to be at some point) then tickets in advance is a must - turning someone away at the door who has travelled, and not had any opportunity to buy tickets in advance, is poor customer service IMO. (Different matter if they could have but didn't and just took a chance)

Daisy
26th-April-2005, 12:25 AM
I thought that Amir's suggestion of running more events was the best idea I heard. More choice of dance, thins out the numbers, more opportutntiy to have cake!

I see a business opportunity here! :wink:

I could become a booking agent for all the organisers and everyone has to book to go a freestyle event through ME.......at a small charge of course :whistle:

This way I can control who's doing what when and know who's going where and when! :grin:

It's a winner......ding dong :clap:

MartinHarper
26th-April-2005, 01:05 AM
Are you aggrieved that your favourite dance is becoming more popular than you'd like?

Well, yes and no.
It's good music, great dancers, and the best floor I've ever danced on. So, sure, it'd be nice if there was a little more space to take maximum advantage of that. There'd be costs too - fewer people to dance with, a loss of atmosphere, and the operator would have to either lose money or increase the entrance fee, neither of which would make me happy.

In the end, I'm happy as it is. If the popularity of the place means that it happens more often, even better.

El Sacco Blanco
26th-April-2005, 01:27 AM
I think if numbers are going to be limited (and they have to be at some point) then tickets in advance is a must - turning someone away at the door who has travelled, and not had any opportunity to buy tickets in advance, is poor customer service IMO. (Different matter if they could have but didn't and just took a chance)

PROBLEM SOLVED.PROBLEM SOLVEDPROBLEM SOLVED
Install a dancing meter. Right next to the bar, this would serve two purposes 1. buy your "dance space" 2.get your drinks at the same time.
What a good idea this would be. How do you charge for "SPACE".Maybe 25p/sq ft/60sec's of dance time/couple.

Both men and laydeez would have to buy a time card and each would have to clock on/off the dance floor. This could proove very expensive for the ground hogs!!

[POLICING]. Again PROBLEM SOLVED! Dance warden's.[D J's job] Each dancer would have a permanent number exclusive to them, he would enter the couples numbers for each dance any "cheating" would be rewarded with a yellow card [sin bin for 20 mins]. Second offence "RED" card miss two consecutive TEA DANCES!!!!!.

Good idea or not?? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :whistle:

sac.xxxxxx

David Bailey
26th-April-2005, 07:52 AM
I see a business opportunity here! :wink:

I could become a booking agent for all the organisers and everyone has to book to go a freestyle event through ME.......at a small charge of course :whistle:

This way I can control who's doing what when and know who's going where and when! :grin:

It's a winner......ding dong :clap:
More to the point, you can choose who comes along, so selecting your favourite dancers! Yay! I'd do that for free - in fact, I'd actually pay for that opportunity. So, definitely a business plan then :)

David Bailey
26th-April-2005, 07:56 AM
A way that we have found works very well is to limit numbers, and ask the punters to kindly email or telephone in advance if they are coming.
:worthy: for putting the effort in. That's really good - I wish we had that system round here, it's a bit of a scrum at the moment in North London...

Banana Man
26th-April-2005, 12:19 PM
:worthy: for putting the effort in. That's really good - I wish we had that system round here, it's a bit of a scrum at the moment in North London...

Which venues? I was at Finchley last night, seemed busy but as there's a few people out practising for the comps maybe it'll thin out in a couple of weeks. IMHO there's plenty of room to dance if you are aware of other dancers and don't want to hog the floor, and I found everyone pretty considerate despite a few bumps. Nice floor for slides! :innocent:

David Bailey
26th-April-2005, 08:07 PM
Which venues? I was at Finchley last night, seemed busy but as there's a few people out practising for the comps maybe it'll thin out in a couple of weeks. IMHO there's plenty of room to dance if you are aware of other dancers and don't want to hog the floor, and I found everyone pretty considerate despite a few bumps. Nice floor for slides! :innocent:

Yes, I whinged about the floor as well - and I got seriously elbowed in the class. Maybe I've been spoilt, but it did seem a little too crowded last night, perhaps the ice rink effect didn't help there.

I was thinking of Finchley New Years' Day, and (I suspect) this Saturday. It's not really a suitable venue for 350+ dancers... :eek:

My :worthy: was for someone prepared to put the effort in (and I don't for a second believe it's trivial effort), without any immediate rewards, and even potentially risking some financial downsides, but who cares enough about providing a good dance session to do it anyway. I don't believe that approach is common, although I wish it were otherwise.

Robin
28th-April-2005, 04:12 PM
Which venues? I was at Finchley last night, seemed busy but as there's a few people out practising for the comps maybe it'll thin out in a couple of weeks. IMHO there's plenty of room to dance if you are aware of other dancers and don't want to hog the floor, and I found everyone pretty considerate despite a few bumps. Nice floor for slides! :innocent:


And we have our dance (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5231) this saturday for practising too

David Bailey
28th-April-2005, 04:41 PM
And we have our dance (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5231) this saturday for practising too
Oohh, smooth segue... :)

Didn't want to give the impression of dissing Finchley, it's a great place, and of course got a great teacher and DJ :flower:

And me!

Robin
3rd-May-2005, 03:50 AM
As far as I can see there are lots of ways to limit numbers, but they're all a bit rubbish, and I'll just vote with my feet if a venue is too busy - but how does everyone else feel about it?

ermmmm ... sorry to hijack this a bit, but how do you amend what you voted for ? I misclicked and voted and now I can;t

Thats what happens when you change from a trackpad to a mouse with 12 different buttons on it - and i only wanted 2 buttons! Just couldn't find a comfortable one)

bigdjiver
3rd-May-2005, 01:59 PM
ermmmm ... sorry to hijack this a bit, but how do you amend what you voted for ? I misclicked and voted and now I can;t

Thats what happens when you change from a trackpad to a mouse with 12 different buttons on it - and i only wanted 2 buttons! Just couldn't find a comfortable one)So now you want 13, an extra unvote button?

Actually, there might be a big demand for those after the election ...

Robin
3rd-May-2005, 02:14 PM
So now you want 13, an extra unvote button?

Actually, there might be a big demand for those after the election ...:rofl:

Better take out a copyright on that before Microsoft muscle in on it!

ducasi
30th-May-2005, 09:10 PM
I just voted for setting a maximum number and going by first-come, first-serve. But it's really more complex than that...

The question was about "overcrowded freestyles, T-dances, and classes".

Who would want to make a class a ticket-only affair? I'm not big on ticket-only for regular events either as I then have to plan in advance. I'm not sure what I'm doing tomorrow, never mind the weekend. :confused:

For special events, like charity balls, Christmas parties and such, of course selling tickets in advance makes sense, as if you're going, you'll have to plan in advance and so making sure you have a ticket shouldn't be a big deal.

Even for ticket-only events, I'd maybe keep a few over to sell at the door to regulars and other people you'd not want to turn away.

Sheepman
7th-June-2005, 01:47 PM
John Miller also uses the same policy when organising his own dances in Surrey, which almost always sell out well in advance.
I've been regularly going to these dances for years now, for about a year they were very quiet, maybe even only 30 people turning up, but I still enjoyed them, with a cosy, friendly venue, excellent floor, and brilliant music.
When the numbers started to build, although it was good to see the success, it was also becoming unmanageable. John consulted with the dancers on how crowded it was, and after several adjustments, reached a number that keeps both him, and us, happy. Profit is not a major issue for him, as the dances are run for charity, but obviously he likes to maximise the proceeds.

So the night has grown into one that is almost sure to sell out every month, unless there is a really big competing event. Reserving a place is simple, as is cancelling a reserved place if something comes up. It is one of the few venues where I know I can be guaranteed a good night.

Greg