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Gus
14th-April-2005, 10:16 PM
Just to the point:

When does it start?
Will there be Northern, West and Midlands heats?
Who should be allowed to enter / not enter
What should be the selection criteria?
What changes should be made to the music
Should non-Ceroc ventures be involved?

Any views?

Lory
14th-April-2005, 10:23 PM
When does it start?

Erm, I heard there wasn't going to be one this year!

El Salsero Gringo
15th-April-2005, 12:05 AM
Erm, I heard there wasn't going to be one this year!So Adam announced, at Walthamstow last weekend.

Gus
15th-April-2005, 08:23 AM
Erm, I heard there wasn't going to be one this year!Well that would seem to open up the way for any enterprising individuals to fill the market need. any volunteers? :wink:

Dreadful Scathe
15th-April-2005, 09:24 AM
you ? :) ill travel down as someones groupie :)

Little Em
15th-April-2005, 09:28 AM
Erm, I heard there wasn't going to be one this year!



yes its true...no jive masters this year...!! :tears:

Adam told me that the masters is a real success, but that they dont want it to go stale !!! so that next year when we do it, everyone is even more enthused cuz they have missed out on a year!!!!!!! :clap:

sounds like common sense to me ! :na:

Em x x :flower:

David Bailey
15th-April-2005, 09:28 AM
Well that would seem to open up the way for any enterprising individuals to fill the market need. any volunteers? :wink:
GusMasters I? Hey, it's a winner... :whistle:

(Plus, "I" looks better than "2005" :) )

Gus
15th-April-2005, 09:45 AM
you ? :) ill travel down as someones groupie :)Me?? NO CHANCE. I manage to get in enough trouble with dance organisations by just breathing. Some other poor sucker can incurr their wrath.

ChrisA
15th-April-2005, 10:47 AM
Adam told me that the masters is a real success, but that they dont want it to go stale !!!
Strange that.

Blackpool runs, year after year. No one seems to worry about it going stale. Hammersmith similarly, and is still improving as far as I can tell. Not sure about the other comps, but they've run for several years with no one suggesting any of them should miss a year in case they go stale.

Why would it be that the Jivemasters would get stale after only two years?

:confused: :confused:

Mary
15th-April-2005, 01:29 PM
I actually think missing a year of Jivemasters is a good idea. It is different from the other comps, and I think it will produce a whole bunch of new faces to be invited next year.

Although, not saying I would have been invited, but would love to have had another go this year before I'm too old and decrepit!!! But then that's exactly why I think it is good to skip a year - so you don't keep seeing the same old faces, much as we love them. :wink:

M

Dreadful Scathe
15th-April-2005, 01:53 PM
Me?? NO CHANCE. I manage to get in enough trouble with dance organisations by just breathing.

Nows your chance to give them a proper reason for a change :)

GusMasters 2005!! woo

Chicklet
15th-April-2005, 02:05 PM
or what about WestCoastSwingsters???????????

David Bailey
15th-April-2005, 03:21 PM
GusMasters 2005!! woo
Oi, that's my Trademark that is.... :mad:

Dancing Teeth
15th-April-2005, 03:53 PM
Strange that.

Blackpool runs, year after year. No one seems to worry about it going stale. Hammersmith similarly, and is still improving as far as I can tell. Not sure about the other comps, but they've run for several years with no one suggesting any of them should miss a year in case they go stale.

Why would it be that the Jivemasters would get stale after only two years?

:confused: :confused:

To be Honest.. Running an event like the JiveMasters takes alot of planning, effort and money. It's needs a dedicated person in this country to make it as much of a success as it's been over the last two years.
Adam can't run this by proxy from NZ, so I think he's right not to run it this year because it might lose it's shape edge..

What do you think..???

TheTramp
15th-April-2005, 03:57 PM
What about Nigel?? He's still around and it was him that was organising the competitors. Isn't he dedicated enough??

Dancing Teeth
15th-April-2005, 04:02 PM
What about Nigel?? He's still around and it was him that was organising the competitors. Isn't he dedicated enough??


He's on the CEROC banned list I think....... So this will never happen...

Mary
15th-April-2005, 04:02 PM
What about Nigel?? He's still around and it was him that was organising the competitors. Isn't he dedicated enough??

Hey Trampy, you've hit a landmark post!!

In spite of my earlier post, you've got a point.

M

TheTramp
15th-April-2005, 04:12 PM
He's on the CEROC banned list I think....... So this will never happen...
Well. He has been organising it quite openly for the last couple of years. It was him that contacted me both times about entering.....

Dancing Teeth
15th-April-2005, 04:19 PM
Well. He has been organising it quite openly for the last couple of years. It was him that contacted me both times about entering.....

I think that's common knowledge Trampy, I can't talk for Nigel, but I think he deals with Adam and not the mother company...

This is ofcause pure speculation, I think I better stop talking before I get told off, even worst, put on a second banned list... :grin: :grin:

El Salsero Gringo
15th-April-2005, 04:48 PM
I think that's common knowledge Trampy, I can't talk for Nigel, but I think he deals with Adam and not the mother company...Don't you mean the mothership?

cerocmetro
16th-April-2005, 05:07 AM
To be Honest.. Running an event like the JiveMasters takes alot of planning, effort and money. It's needs a dedicated person in this country to make it as much of a success as it's been over the last two years.
Adam can't run this by proxy from NZ, so I think he's right not to run it this year because it might lose it's shape edge..

What do you think..???


Hi Guys
I have just come across this post and thought I should reply. As much as I love gossip and speculation.

Firstly, I am convinced that running the JiveMasters this year would be a mistake. The competition needs some new blood and that takes a bit of time. Having a years break will produce a better competition and far more excitment for the audience. My opinion, but everyone is right in the subjective world. so I accept there are arguements for having one this year, but I actually think it would be better being Bi-annual.

The JiveMasters is my little baby. I asked Nigel to help me initially as a favour and as a very good friend. Nigel has helped with getting names together and with some of the organisation. I have proposed many of the names and Nigels job was to contact the competitors and arrange the running orders. When I started the competition I felt Nigel was the right man for the job and a high enough profile to help the competition get off the ground and be taken seriously. However I believe that as a friend Nigel respects that it is my competition and would therefore not want to run it alone. I also believe in Nigels integrity which is probably why I consider him a friend.

As for being in NZ, that is not a reason, I am in the UK every 10 weeks and would be back for any major events. I am able to run the rest of CerocMetro from here and the JiveMasters would be no problem. As everone saw, the Masked Ball of the East was probably the best one ever this year. It was totally organised by my very experienced crew. I was able to just turn up and dance.

Another reason for not running it this year is that there are three huge names we would like to enter all of whom can make next year but not this due to prior commitments. The competition needs huge names to make it be the great success that it is.

This of course raises another problem, why would others bother entering if we have so called huge names. The answer is easy. a) it is free to enter b) the competition now has such a high profile that people want just to be invited as an acknowledgement of how good they are. Win or lose the fact they have been asked to enter is enough to recognise that they have achieved great things with their dancing. c) the title is worth a lot of money. I am not talking about the prize money but holding a JiveMAsters title is now seen as the title to hold as recognition as being THE best MJ dancer in the land. It is up to the individual how they use the title. Nicky Haslam includes the title in everything she does and actively uses the title to sell herself.

I hope this helps. I am sure there will be some low life who tries to jump on the idea and set up his own competition but it will not be the JiveMasters.

We will be back in 2006. It will be better, slicker, phatter and all round an improved competition.

We are welcoming names coming forward for consideration. Either your own or recommendations for us to consider. Please email ceroc@hotmail.com

Finally, to set the records straight, Nigel is NOT banned from Ceroc. Nigel used to teach Ceroc. For CerocMetro actually and was Ceroc trained. He was asked to leave Ceroc as a teacher for various reasons, but he was NEVER banned.

I only know of one person who is banned from Ceroc. that person is not a competitor, he is considered a threat to customers personally. In truth, I do not believe that there has ever been a notice from HQ ever banning anyone nationwide. Considering Ceroc have hundreds of thousands of members, this is an incredibly low number and perhaps another thread.

Comments welcome
Adam

Mary
16th-April-2005, 09:34 AM
Thanks for that Adam. Good post and I think I'm inclined to agree with you on all counts. :worthy: :worthy:

M

Clive Long
16th-April-2005, 09:38 AM
<< snip good stuff >>

I hope this helps. I am sure there will be some low life who tries to jump on the idea and set up his own competition but it will not be the JiveMasters.
<< snip good stuff >>

Comments welcome
Adam
Comment provided.

If a Jive Masters competition is not to be held this year then why should any other competition be considered derivative, a rip-off or a threat?

Gus may well be a low-life but it has nothing to do with Jive Masters, of which his original post seemed very supportive.


We will be back in 2006. It will be better, slicker, phatter and all round an improved competition.

:cheers:
Thanks Adam for the work you put in to organise such events and it is entirely your decision whether you hold one or not - I'm amazed you can hold together such a global life-style.

Clive

Dance Demon
16th-April-2005, 10:34 AM
Gus may well be a low-life but it has nothing to do with Jive Masters, of which his original post seemed very supportive.

Erm....I assume that this comment, with no smilies to suggest that it was meant to be tongue in cheek, is a personal attack on Gus?......Not very nice :mad:

David Franklin
16th-April-2005, 10:47 AM
Erm....I assume that this comment, with no smilies to suggest that it was meant to be tongue in cheek, is a personal attack on Gus?......Not very nice :mad:Given I've seen them together at Jango a few times, I assume they know each other well enough that Clive thought no smilies were necessary. Probably not the best assumption given the wider audience, but I'm sure no malice was intended.

Dave

Mary
16th-April-2005, 10:52 AM
Thanks for that Adam. Good post and I think I'm inclined to agree with you on all counts. :worthy: :worthy:

M

OK, so maybe there's one count I don't entirely agree on! Admittedly you and Nigel created the Jivemasters and made it what it is. However, I do take a slight exception the 'low-life' comment.

There is nothing that would compare with Jivemasters in the same way that there is nothing to compare with Blackpool, but that does not take away the validity and market for the other comps around the country. OK, maybe not the best analogy but it's all I can think of at the moment.

However, I guess it would be good to keep Jivemasters unique.

Would still re-iterate :worthy: :worthy: :cheers:

Oh, and I didn't interpret Clive's post about Gus as any kind of attack, but maybe that's because I know both parties. I think you can relax on that one DD :wink:

M

bigdjiver
16th-April-2005, 10:56 AM
I remember that the Le Jive Championships took a year off, promising to come back bigger and better, but disappeared instead. I do not think Jivemasters will suffer the same fate, but do consider missing a year a mistake, hopefully not a bad one. There will always be big names that will not be availiable, and this will happen more often in future. Jivemasters is well loved and respected, and if someone else steps in to run a similar event they will be more hero than low life in my book. The competitors and the audience have been deprived of a treat that they were looking forward to.

In the cruel hard commercial world, you snooze, you lose.

David Bailey
16th-April-2005, 12:24 PM
However, I do take a slight exception the 'low-life' comment.

Yes, us low-lives feel insulted... :whistle:

Just goes to show, icons are a vital part of (mis-)communication!

Banana Man
16th-April-2005, 12:58 PM
Hi Guys
I have just come across this post and thought I should reply. As much as I love gossip and speculation.

~SNIP~

Finally, to set the records straight, Nigel is NOT banned from Ceroc. Nigel used to teach Ceroc. For CerocMetro actually and was Ceroc trained. He was asked to leave Ceroc as a teacher for various reasons, but he was NEVER banned.

I only know of one person who is banned from Ceroc. that person is not a competitor, he is considered a threat to customers personally. In truth, I do not believe that there has ever been a notice from HQ ever banning anyone nationwide. Considering Ceroc have hundreds of thousands of members, this is an incredibly low number and perhaps another thread.

Comments welcome
Adam

:yeah:

Well said Adam, nice to get the facts. Masked Ball was a great event, looks like the team can cope without you for a while then. :wink:

Clive Long
16th-April-2005, 01:50 PM
Erm....I assume that this comment, with no smilies to suggest that it was meant to be tongue in cheek, is a personal attack on Gus?......Not very nice :mad:
Thanks for keeping the forum civil. Interesting the original low-life comment from Adam brought no criticism from you. But lots of :flower: .

and

Yes, us low-lives feel insulted... :whistle:

Just goes to show, icons are a vital part of (mis-)communication!
I try to keep my postings emoticon free and weave in a fine line of ambiguity, a liberal dose of :wink: :wink: :wink: with a touch of :devil: is always there , but there is never any malice intended - although that does not mean offence is never taken from what I post.

To Gus - who is to put me on the road to MJ enlightenment :worthy: . Certainly :cheers: but maybe not as far as :kiss:

Clive

Gus
17th-April-2005, 01:15 AM
I am sure there will be some low life who tries to jump on the idea and set up his own competition but it will not be the JiveMasters.I dont think that anyone would promote their event as the JiveMasters but there have been many events prior to Jivemasters(tm?) where the audience were the judges (even Ceroc Nantwich held such events). What defined Jivemasters was the scale. However, why would someone be a 'lowlife' to use such a model? I think LeJive hald the first MJ dance competitions of note. Both Ceroc and C2D have held such compeitions ... does that make both of them 'low life'? :confused: :rolleyes:

Dance Demon
17th-April-2005, 01:28 AM
Thanks for keeping the forum civil. Interesting the original low-life comment from Adam brought no criticism from you. But lots of :flower: .


The original "Low Life" comment from Adam didn't name anyone in particular. Your post named Gus Specifically. I happen to think that Adams use of the term "Low Life".was a tad strong also. Something with a successful format is bound to have its imitators, but it doesn't make the imitatators low Life. Imitation is the highest form of flattery. :flower: :wink:

cerocmetro
17th-April-2005, 07:03 AM
The original "Low Life" comment from Adam didn't name anyone in particular. Your post named Gus Specifically. I happen to think that Adams use of the term "Low Life".was a tad strong also. Something with a successful format is bound to have its imitators, but it doesn't make the imitatators low Life. Imitation is the highest form of flattery. :flower: :wink:


Perhaps lowlife was a bit strong, but flattery doesn't put food on the table. there are very few of us who do MJ full time as a sole source of income.

I did not refer to anyone and i did not have anyone in mind when I said it.

Le JIve did run the first MJ comp. The JiveMasters is NOT another MJ comp. The idea is that it is the best of the best. How many best of the bests can their be? I guess there can be the Ceroc BoB, or LeBop BOB etc but surely that just becomes a farce like the World Boxing titles?

Ultimately, people do as they wish and that is the way things work. All I can do is my best to ensure we offer the best we are able to offer. If there is any (not quite low but getting there) life, (tamed down), then he/she should think very carefully about what they are undertaking.

Again for the record, I do not refer to any one person directly, indirectly, abstractly or in any metaphysical or existentialistic way. The only personal reference i will make is that Gus and I have discussed a joint event in the Northern parts.

Adam

David Bailey
17th-April-2005, 09:48 AM
Perhaps lowlife was a bit strong, but flattery doesn't put food on the table. there are very few of us who do MJ full time as a sole source of income.

Adam's made a good point - it's fun for us, it's a business for him (hopefully a fun business, of course :) ). He's put the effort in to develop the format, and arguably owns some copyright on the "invitation to compete" ideas of JiveMasters.

So for someone to blatantly copy that idea, just because he doesn't run it for one year, could be seen as a breach of that copyright, and certainly seems disrespectful of the time/effort he and his team have put into it.

It's Adam's competition, his concept, his ideas - if he has good reasons for not running it for one year (and he seems to have provided those). I think we should probably accept that, or develop different competitions. After all, it's not as if there's a scarcity of comps around, too many if you ask me... :whistle:

P.S. I also am not even thinking of Gus in any way as a vertically-challenged lifer... :cheers:

Dance Demon
17th-April-2005, 11:15 AM
Perhaps lowlife was a bit strong, but flattery doesn't put food on the table. there are very few of us who do MJ full time as a sole source of income.

I did not refer to anyone and i did not have anyone in mind when I said it.

Le JIve did run the first MJ comp. The JiveMasters is NOT another MJ comp. The idea is that it is the best of the best. How many best of the bests can their be? I guess there can be the Ceroc BoB, or LeBop BOB etc but surely that just becomes a farce like the World Boxing titles?

Ultimately, people do as they wish and that is the way things work. All I can do is my best to ensure we offer the best we are able to offer. If there is any (not quite low but getting there) life, (tamed down), then he/she should think very carefully about what they are undertaking.

Again for the record, I do not refer to any one person directly, indirectly, abstractly or in any metaphysical or existentialistic way. The only personal reference i will make is that Gus and I have discussed a joint event in the Northern parts.

Adam


All above points above taken on board & understood. However whilst i understand the uniqueness of the Jivemasters, and the huge amount of effort put in to organising it, unless there is some kind of copyright on the format, someone is bound to copy it. This happens in all walks of business life, hence the reason we get all kinds of copycat talent shows, and reality TV shows. If someone else is willing to take this huge task on board, that is up to them. It would also be up to the invited dancers to decide if they wanted to dance in the rival comp, or whether they thought it was only a pale imitation. Unfortunately, you can become a victim of your own success sometimes.
My initial comments on this subject was with reference to Clives posting branding Gus a Low Life. It may well have been a tongue in cheek comment, but to the large amount of people who read this forum, that dont know either Clive or Gus, it would probably be construed as a personal attack. The absence of any emoticons makes it difficult to know whether it was or not. I assume that since gus has not responded, and by other peoples comments that there is no animosity between the two, that it was a tongue in cheek comment. In which case, my question is answered, and I will not make any further comment...........other than........on this Scottish Forum, it's nice to see the London Mafia all stick together :wink:

David Franklin
17th-April-2005, 11:29 AM
...on this Scottish Forum, it's nice to see the London Mafia all stick together :wink:Just remember, when one of 'the family' asks you to dance, it's an offer you can't refuse. Or you might just wake up with El Salsero Gringo's head in your bed... :devil:

Dance Demon
17th-April-2005, 11:31 AM
Just remember, when one of 'the family' asks you to dance, it's an offer you can't refuse. Or you might just wake up with El Salsero Gringo's head in your bed... :devil:

:D :D :D :worthy: .........(handy things these emoticons)

Mary
17th-April-2005, 11:47 AM
Just remember, when one of 'the family' asks you to dance, it's an offer you can't refuse. Or you might just wake up with El Salsero Gringo's head in your bed... :devil:

:rofl: :rofl:

Cool!

M

El Salsero Gringo
17th-April-2005, 01:25 PM
Just remember, when one of 'the family' asks you to dance, it's an offer you can't refuse. Or you might just wake up with El Salsero Gringo's head in your bed... :devil:I feel duty-bound to point out that I wake up with El Salsero Gringo's head in my bed every morning of the year, and a thorougly enjoyable experience it is, too.

Now, form an orderly queue, please, and no pushing at the back.

Gus
17th-April-2005, 01:32 PM
it's nice to see the London Mafia all stick together :wink:Good God ... I've only been exiled from the North West for a few weeks and already I've been slandered as being a Londoner ... does this mean that I'm no longer an Honorary Dundonian? :tears: :tears: Will the pain never cease :wink:

DavidB
17th-April-2005, 04:48 PM
I can understand both points of view (ie whether to run JM2005 or not, and whether Gus is a Low Life :whistle: )

I could think of 2 variations that would provide an alternative to Jive Masters, and so keep some excitement & publicity without 'diluting' the main Jive Masters concept.

Showcase Masters: A mini-showcase comp using the Strictly Dance Fever format of a 1 minute routine. This would give the couples a chance to be judged by people who actually know something about partner dancing :devil:

Dance With A Master: An invitational DWAS. Invite 4 couples as at present, but you draw lots for your partner as well as the music. This would also take away most of the stress for the competitors as well.

I would imagine both comps would attract only enough people for a couple of rounds and a final. That in itself would keep its status as a 'supporting competition' rather than the main event. But it would give people who have only started dancing this year a taste of what Jive Masters is about.

And is Gus a Low Life? The main person agruing that he isn't is the "Official Devil's Advocate"... :wink:

David Bailey
17th-April-2005, 05:09 PM
it's nice to see the London Mafia all stick together :wink:
:confused: There's a London Mafia? Cool! Where can I join up? I've got the Godfather DVD collection, is that a pre-requisite? :whistle:

Mary
17th-April-2005, 07:39 PM
I can understand both points of view (ie whether to run JM2005 or not, and whether Gus is a Low Life :whistle: )

I could think of 2 variations that would provide an alternative to Jive Masters, and so keep some excitement & publicity without 'diluting' the main Jive Masters concept.

Showcase Masters: A mini-showcase comp using the Strictly Dance Fever format of a 1 minute routine. This would give the couples a chance to be judged by people who actually know something about partner dancing :devil:

Dance With A Master: An invitational DWAS. Invite 4 couples as at present, but you draw lots for your partner as well as the music. This would also take away most of the stress for the competitors as well.

I would imagine both comps would attract only enough people for a couple of rounds and a final. That in itself would keep its status as a 'supporting competition' rather than the main event. But it would give people who have only started dancing this year a taste of what Jive Masters is about.

And is Gus a Low Life? The main person agruing that he isn't is the "Official Devil's Advocate"... :wink:

I like the sound of both these ideas. Well, maybe the Dance With a Master sounds nicer - less prep. and choreography skills needed! :devil:

As to 'is Gus a low-life?' well, he knows my answer to that as he's a northern jesse as well. :hug: Let's keep this mafia exclusive!

M

bigdjiver
17th-April-2005, 07:42 PM
Formats for TV shows are copyright and can be very valuable. Outright copies are usually paying license fees, and others similar shows are usually trying to be just different enough not to infringe. The problem with intellectual rights in these matters is that most of it has been done before, and persuading a judge that a format is sufficiently original and contains enough work to be worthy of protection is a difficult and expensive task. If anyone was looking for precedents for a particular format of competition the British Museum would probably be a good place to start.

Mary
17th-April-2005, 07:51 PM
Formats for TV shows are copyright and can be very valuable. Outright copies are usually paying license fees, and others similar shows are usually trying to be just different enough not to infringe. The problem with intellectual rights in these matters is that most of it has been done before, and persuading a judge that a format is sufficiently original and contains enough work to be worthy of protection is a difficult and expensive task. If anyone was looking for precedents for a particular format of competition the British Museum would probably be a good place to start.

Spoilsport! :sad:

M

David Franklin
18th-April-2005, 09:36 AM
:confused: There's a London Mafia? Cool! Where can I join up?To paraphrase (aka shamelessly steal from www.salsamafia.com):

You don’t join the London MJ Mafia. There isn’t an application form, or some sort of Pop Idol audition, with thousands of spotty hopefuls whacking out ham-footed shines in front of an austere judging panelBut an anonymous informant has provided the following information:

da' family ain't like a lot of gangsters you hear about - not many loners, lots of couples. They hang out in a club in Hammersmith, very secret, very hard to find...

At the head is husband and wife, DB and LB. DB started out as as a strong arm merchant, but he has more recently become known for a more gentle way of leading. LB provides the legal brains, and video evidence seems to indicate she's actually over DB's head in the scheme of things. Between them they have many international connections to both the USA and far east. DB in particular is notorious for importing 'specialists' from the West Coast.

Another couple, rumoured to be getting hitched soon - T2K and a lady known only as Diva. Always seen sporting huge amounts of equipment, T2K is the "hitman" of the organisation. Not one for hiding his (flashing) lights under a shirt, he actually has his own underground website devoted to his hits! His partner, Diva, specialises in diamonds - well, anything that sparkles, really. Rumour has it she takes care of all the cash deposits.

In charge of all the sports action is the man known only as "the Commentator". He tries to keep a very low profile - apparently there's still a contract out on him and people keep firing at him... Recently got married to a close confidente of Diva - as so often the case in the family, the diamond connection is important. Rumour has it he's been lying low in the Seychelles but will be returning to his usual haunts soon.

There are some peripheral characters I've only heard vaguely about:

'The Gorilla': Apparently fleeing the nightclub business up north - said to be a bit of a low-life.
'ESG': Numbers guy. Said to be particularly interested in the gee-gees.
'Mr Anderson': Famously seen wearing a long black coat. Often said to be "the one". Story has it, his sidekick can kill with a look.
'The Guv'nor'. Famous for his dazzling smile, he's more of a one-man show than part of any organization, though he's been known to double-up with ruthless efficiency. When it comes down to it, usually the victor in any encounter.Said informant was later found in the subway, trussed and tied with red braces. He was covered in small bruises, apparently the result of being walked over in high-heeled tango boots. He refuses to say who did it, or indeed, anything more about 'da family.

David Bailey
18th-April-2005, 10:01 AM
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Oh, and :worthy:

Lory
18th-April-2005, 10:15 AM
But an anonymous informant has provided the following information:
~snip~ He refuses to say who did it, or indeed, anything more about 'da family.
:rofl: Love it! Have some rep! :hug:

Feelingpink
18th-April-2005, 10:31 AM
David,

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

That has to go in the Classic Posts thread ... there is one, isn't there?

Mary
18th-April-2005, 11:42 AM
Yeah, baby!

:worthy: :worthy: :worthy:

:rofl: :rofl:

M

Rhythm King
18th-April-2005, 12:20 PM
Nice one David :wink:

R-K

stewart38
18th-April-2005, 02:10 PM
Hi Guys



Another reason for not running it this year is that there are three huge names we would like to enter all of whom can make next year but not this due to prior commitments. The competition needs huge names to make it be the great success that it is.

Adam

When ever do 'huge names' make a ceroc competition a success.

Lets make sure we give these 'huge names' their own changing rooms and private car to arrive at back door. Doesnt this go against everything that ceroc should or was about ?

David Franklin
18th-April-2005, 02:15 PM
When ever do 'huge names' make a ceroc competition a success. Absolutely - everyone knows it's the number of names that matters! Thus the undisputed champions of musicality:

Little Em
18th-April-2005, 03:30 PM
When ever do 'huge names' make a ceroc competition a success.

Lets make sure we give these 'huge names' their own changing rooms and private car to arrive at back door. Doesnt this go against everything that ceroc should or was about ?


an to b honest... watching these "huge" names perform is fab, an inspirational for some of us.... imagine havin a comp with your regular dancers (not that there is anything wrong with regular!! :blush: ) it IS more exciting when you watch people who have natural talent an flair. :drool: ... its their chance to show what they can do,...an hooray to these "huge" names cuz i think its good to have 'em around!!

but that is just my opinion,... an who am i !!!!!! :tears:

little em.... whio wishes no backlash from the baove ! :innocent: :flower:

cerocmetro
18th-April-2005, 11:14 PM
When ever do 'huge names' make a ceroc competition a success.

Lets make sure we give these 'huge names' their own changing rooms and private car to arrive at back door. Doesnt this go against everything that ceroc should or was about ?

Usually I would agree with your comments but the JM is not a regular competition. It was set up to have the best of the best entering. To encourage this again unlike other competitions, it is free to enter, it is by invitation only.

The competition has to have the names who are at the top of MJ. Many of the competitors know they stand a very low chance of winning, one reason we made it free. But the fact they have been asked to enter is recognition of how good they are.

If they dance out of their skins then they could of course win. Most competitions are down to who can be bothered to enter and to be honest some titles have gone to some very undeserving winners.

The JM was also set up as an audience treat seeing effectively showcases from people who would probably not usually enter competitions.

Last year we had a couple recognised as the best from Australia. They paid their own way to come over and compete. They knew how tough the competition would be yet still they came. We have to respect the fact that these people enter.

Everyone who enters the competition is a name in the dance world, they are only there because they have won a competition, are a professional/teacher or we recognise how good they are for other reasons.

Everyone is also realistic. Vicktor for example is a Ceroc teacher of old who influenced the direction of MJ. Nicky Haslam is not only the founder of Ceroc OZ she is also recognised as one of the greatest dancers in the southern hemishpere.

Simon Selmon is a god on the Lindy circuit. Choreographer of many dance films.

There are many more dancers from within and outside our MJ world who merit such respect and who I consider to be huge names. I am in awe of these people and feel they deserve to be called "huge names".

If someone else beats these people, then they too will become a huge name and worthy of it.

I genuinely feel though as I said above many of the competitors do not believe they can win, but reaching the finals is achievable to many. There is obviously an element of luck ie who is in your round, but due to the way the competition is judged, the public choose who goes through. Impress them and you stand a great chance. Mick Wenger proved this in 2003. He was not dancing at his best but produced a couple of amazing moves (not aerials) which pulled him all the way into second place.

I say it again, this is not a regular Ceroc competition, this is the Jive Masters.

Adam

MartinHarper
19th-April-2005, 12:04 AM
The idea is that it is the best of the best. How many best of the bests can their be?

Well, Golf, for example, has a number of "Masters", all of which invite and attract the best of the best, and the top golfers are judged on how well they do in all of them.
So, there can be several.

Gary
19th-April-2005, 12:07 AM
... Last year we had a couple recognised as the best from Australia. ...
I'd say "one of the best couples from Australia". John/Bianca, Clint/Melissa, Louie/Emily are also up there.

Gus
19th-April-2005, 01:56 PM
Leaving aside all the furore about 'low lifes' ... .I was wondering if the absence of the main event would give rise to more regional competitions. I'm aware that the South West has (and is currently) been running their own version for some years. We just held one for the North West (which only served to illustrate the dearth of advanced dancers in the North :( ) I was wondering if the other regions would seize the opportuntity and showcase some local talent without it getting swallowed up in the Nationals?

Lynn
19th-April-2005, 04:29 PM
But an anonymous informant has provided the following information... :rofl: :worthy: :worthy:

ElaineB
19th-April-2005, 04:41 PM
Leaving aside all the furore about 'low lifes' ... .I was wondering if the absence of the main event would give rise to more regional competitions. I'm aware that the South West has (and is currently) been running their own version for some years. We just held one for the North West (which only served to illustrate the dearth of advanced dancers in the North :( ) I was wondering if the other regions would seize the opportuntity and showcase some local talent without it getting swallowed up in the Nationals?

We have the South West Challenge - originally won by Nigel and Nina! Also the Best in the West, which is in it's second year.

Good competitions though they are, I don't think we are quite in the catergory of the Jive Masters...........yet! :D Both competitons have proven to be very popular! :clap: :clap: :clap:


Elaine

bigdjiver
19th-April-2005, 09:26 PM
I quite like the idea of a "Jive Apprentices" competition, perhaps ahead of a tea dance or a Saturday freestyle. No big deal, just somewhere for the locals to dip their toes into the competitive water wihout too much pressure.

Clive Long
19th-April-2005, 11:48 PM
I quite like the idea of a "Jive Apprentices" competition, perhaps ahead of a tea dance or a Saturday freestyle. No big deal, just somewhere for the locals to dip their toes into the competitive water wihout too much pressure.
Nice idea. :nice:
Where indeed do the Masters of Tomorrow (sounds like a band fronted by CJ) come from?

Clive

David Bailey
20th-April-2005, 08:05 AM
I quite like the idea of a "Jive Apprentices" competition, perhaps ahead of a tea dance or a Saturday freestyle. No big deal, just somewhere for the locals to dip their toes into the competitive water wihout too much pressure.
:yeah:
Cunning plan, man. "Jive Journeymen" perhaps, to be alliterative... But then, the point of the Masters is that's it's an invitation-only, would you still have that element?

El Salsero Gringo
20th-April-2005, 09:11 AM
I quite like the idea of a "Jive Apprentices" competition, perhaps ahead of a tea dance or a Saturday freestyle. No big deal, just somewhere for the locals to dip their toes into the competitive water wihout too much pressure.I completely agree - see this thread. (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5025)

bigdjiver
20th-April-2005, 09:41 AM
:yeah:
Cunning plan, man. "Jive Journeymen" perhaps, to be alliterative... But then, the point of the Masters is that's it's an invitation-only, would you still have that element?Tricky - Perhaps it could be open to anyone, provided that one partner has been a Taxi dancer or Demo? (or Teacher?) If someone is being excluded who ought not to be then they could always be invited to Taxi or Demo.

stewart38
20th-April-2005, 11:41 AM
I quite like the idea of a "Jive Apprentices" competition, perhaps ahead of a tea dance or a Saturday freestyle. No big deal, just somewhere for the locals to dip their toes into the competitive water wihout too much pressure.


A great idea and id exclude teachers/taxi dancers and the like

Also have DWAS and exclude Teachers/Taxi dancers etc

Bring ceroc/jive back to the common people

so in at least one comp we dont know who the top 3 will be before hand and its going to encourage raw talent etc

Gus
20th-April-2005, 12:51 PM
If you are on about 'local competitions for 'non-expert dancers'? Well .. we'vbe been running these for years. Although not by invite, we simply get people on a freestyle night to come onto the floor ... stating that no-one who has won a competition or who is considered 'advanced' can take part. These were tremendously successfull (IMHO) and great fun. However, the trend now in Blitz is for 'just freestyles' ... which I feel is big mistake and missed opportutntiy. :(

IO would encourage promoters to orgainse more of these events. They dont take long to run and are fairly easy to organise if you can get a few judges (use your local teachers and crew). I think it can go a long way towards enouraging dancers to improve and increase the appetitie for the bigger competitions. Wouldnt it be nice of Ceroc nominated one month for all its clubs to run such an event at a freestyle as a way of promoting the Ceroc Champs?

alex
20th-April-2005, 02:27 PM
I quite like the idea of a "Jive Apprentices" competitionAdam already has the Mini-Masters. Is this what you mean?


Also have DWAS and exclude Teachers/Taxi dancers etc. Bring ceroc/jive back to the common peopleI can recall a discussion some time ago about having intermediate and advanced divisions in DWAS competitions. I think a lot of people complained that it took the 'fun' division and made it too serious. Or is it only too serious if you have an Advanced DWAS?

Makes you wonder why anyone wants to improve. It seems to be a way of making yourself really unpopular.


so in at least one comp we dont know who the top 3 will be before handWe already get this with the Intermediate, the DWAS, the Advanced (when there isn't an open) and the Showcase. The only big division where you have any chance of predicting the top 3 is the Open, and short of banning the best couples you will always get this. That is why they are the best couples.

Gadget
20th-April-2005, 03:27 PM
A great idea and id exclude teachers/taxi dancers and the like? there are very few good dancers who are not(/have not) been taxis or teachers.

Gus
20th-April-2005, 05:04 PM
? there are very few good dancers who are not(/have not) been taxis or teachers.And there are many taxis and teachers who are not good competition dancers... :rolleyes:

Hold on ... question, when were any of the following Taxi dancers; DaveB, Will, Wongster, C&J, Phil & Yuko, Pistol Pete ......

David Bailey
20th-April-2005, 06:12 PM
? there are very few good dancers who are not(/have not) been taxis or teachers.
Mmm, I can think of a few, but I agree excluding taxis would be a shame, simply because the better dancers tend to get asked to be taxis.

I like the idea of it being venue-specific, though, as per ESG suggestion - ie. having local regulars only. Although I'm not sure how you define regular...

El Salsero Gringo
20th-April-2005, 06:18 PM
Mmm, I can think of a few, but I agree excluding taxis would be a shame, simply because the better dancers tend to get asked to be taxis.

I like the idea of it being venue-specific, though, as per ESG suggestion - ie. having local regulars only. Although I'm not sure how you define regular...The way to keep it 'local' is not to build it up into a great big deal. The benefit to the competitors is not in their chance of winning, but in taking part and working on their dance, with the spur of a competition to work towards. There's not a huge amount of kudos in being crowned best dancer of Ashton-under-Lyme May 2005 if you have to travel from Aberdeen to compete.

spindr
20th-April-2005, 06:23 PM
Hmmm, I'm getting shades of the League of Gentlemen

A local competition for local people. Eh, Tubs.

SpinDr.

David Bailey
20th-April-2005, 06:58 PM
There's not a huge amount of kudos in being crowned best dancer of Ashton-under-Lyme May 2005 if you have to travel from Aberdeen to compete.
:rofl: :rofl:
And then, of course, you'll have to travel back there for the June rematch ... :)