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David Bailey
13th-April-2005, 08:50 PM
Some habits I've encountered.

Personally, my least favourite is probably the stamping one.

I know, it's a legitimate, traditional dance whatsit, but it just distracts me. I can work around most of the others, but I always look at someone yelling "Yee-haw", if only to practise the famous Nin(j)a deathstare...

jivecat
13th-April-2005, 09:11 PM
None of these annoy me very much. Am I being too tolerant? (Goes off to worry in case everyone votes for "singing along".)

Little Monkey
14th-April-2005, 12:22 AM
What's even more annoying than people taking up a lot of space doing travelling moves, is: People who do big travelling moves without first checking that there's space or looking where they're sending their partner, and end up crashing right into other dancers. :mad: This happened to me twice in the space of about 10 minutes this evening! :angry:

LM

MartinHarper
14th-April-2005, 12:33 AM
I know, it's a legitimate, traditional dance whatsit, but it just distracts me.

I knew there was a reason I wanted to take up tap dancing... :)

Lynn
14th-April-2005, 12:38 AM
People walking across the dance floor carrying drinks annoys me. I know dancing is thirsty work but why can't they go round the edge? Then a dancer bumps into them and the drink is spilled and goes on peoples shoes... grrr! :mad:

And on that note - setting a drink on the floor beside a chair, then leaving it to get up and dance - this happened at a salsa event I was at last week and of course the drink was knocked over and went on one of my (suede soled) shoes. (I think it was just water and my shoe has recovered.)

Yliander
14th-April-2005, 03:57 AM
What's even more annoying than people taking up a lot of space doing travelling moves, is: People who do big travelling moves without first checking that there's space or looking where they're sending their partner, and end up crashing right into other dancers. :mad: :yeah:

the most annoying one on the poll for me is the stamping - there is guy here who I think of as stompper - he is forever doing these loud stomps (sounds like a body hitting the floor from a great height :eek: ) - which is annoying enough but combine with being on odd beats ARRGGHHHHHH

Sparkles
14th-April-2005, 09:45 AM
People who chew gum while they're dancing :angry:
People who stand in the middle of the floor and have a chat after they've finished a dance so everyone has to dance around them for the next track.
People who stand on your feet or knock into you and don't apologise.
There are probably many more, but I'll stop now or everyone will be telling me I'm whinging :tears: :wink:
S. x

El Salsero Gringo
14th-April-2005, 10:11 AM
... has breath like a pound of two-week old rotting steak then insists on breathing into your face while you dance together.

... whinges about the teacher/the music/the dance-floor/other people's dancing/the weather/the phase of the moon/the sun being in aquarius etc.

Little Monkey
14th-April-2005, 10:24 AM
The most nightmare-ish dancer I've ever come across, was here in Dundee when I'd just started ceroc a few years back. (Fortunately he's no longer dancing!)

He's personal style and characteristics consisted of: Handhold with the (very long!!) nails dug deeply into the ladies' hands. A liking of bouncing in and out on the side-to-side, alternately chrashing into his partner's shoulder, and then yanking her arm out of the shoulder socket, whilst yelling "YEAH!". Sending the ladies crashing into other dancers, walls, chairs or anything else that might hurt her or others. Exceedingly bad BO, and trying to inflict this on his partner by doing far too close moves. Yelling "Oh baby!" at irregular intervals. Etc. :mad:

I'm not sure if he quit by himself, or was in the end told to b****r off by the teacher or venue manager, as I know there were a lot of complaints about him.....

LM

Simon r
14th-April-2005, 11:02 AM
Ok this one is quite close to the heart at the moment ...
you set yourself up in a nice slot the dance is going real smooth your both feeling the music and are well in to the groove (ok enough mood setting), then someone cut straight accross your line ... you look over give the nina stare ....but think well honest mistake ... then as you watch the couple doing there best impresion of a tazmanian devil they creep well and truly over and over your slot .....
End result i move away but just like a magnet were ever you go they seem to follow....
Bugger

foxylady
14th-April-2005, 11:08 AM
Ok this one is quite close to the heart at the moment ...
you set yourself up in a nice slot the dance is going real smooth your both feeling the music and are well in to the groove (ok enough mood setting), then someone cut straight accross your line ... you look over give the nina stare ....but think well honest mistake ... then as you watch the couple doing there best impresion of a tazmanian devil they creep well and truly over and over your slot .....
End result i move away but just like a magnet were ever you go they seem to follow....
Bugger

People who don't come to the pub when they say they are going to :wink:

Simon r
14th-April-2005, 11:14 AM
People who don't come to the pub when they say they are going to :wink:
Dannielle needed to find a tube station and we were not going to let her walk back on her own... it was after 11 by the time we got to the tube station so made a dash ...
next time the drinks are on me and we will all go over together....
ohhh by the way thanks for the lovely dances last night . :hug:

foxylady
14th-April-2005, 11:22 AM
Dannielle needed to find a tube station and we were not going to let her walk back on her own... it was after 11 by the time we got to the tube station so made a dash ...
next time the drinks are on me and we will all go over together....
ohhh by the way thanks for the lovely dances last night . :hug:

It was late (I only just made it before last orders)..... so you are forgiven as long as next time I'm also allowed to sit on your lap.... :drool:

bobgadjet
14th-April-2005, 11:30 AM
i move away but just like a magnet were ever you go they seem to follow....
Bugger
I get this SOOOOOOO many times. :what:

I also hate it when I (considerately) find a nice "slot" just right for WCS somewhere along the side of the floor, and some inconsiderate b*stered thinks you moving along the slot means THEY have the right to take the space you just left :angry:

OR WORSE.... walks thru your slot crashing into your partner, or you :angry: :angry: :rolleyes:

David Bailey
14th-April-2005, 11:42 AM
He's personal style and characteristics consisted of: Handhold with the (very long!!) nails dug deeply into the ladies' hands. A liking of bouncing in and out on the side-to-side, alternately chrashing into his partner's shoulder, and then yanking her arm out of the shoulder socket, whilst yelling "YEAH!". Sending the ladies crashing into other dancers, walls, chairs or anything else that might hurt her or others. Exceedingly bad BO, and trying to inflict this on his partner by doing far too close moves. Yelling "Oh baby!" at irregular intervals.
Wow, that's actually quite impressive in a weird kind of way - sort of like an Anti-Dancer. Almost tempts me to start a thread "Worst dancer you have known", but I suspect that'd be moderated into oblivion :whistle:


.
End result i move away but just like a magnet were ever you go they seem to follow....
:yeah: The spooky stalking couple - (smacks head) - how could I have forgotten them?!?! Nice one.

alex
14th-April-2005, 11:50 AM
I also hate it when I (considerately) find a nice "slot" just right for WCS somewhere along the side of the floor, and some inconsiderate b*stered thinks you moving along the slot means THEY have the right to take the space you just leftI'd hate it too- at a WCS night. But at a MJ night you could argue that WCS dancers have no right to expect their slot to be reserved for them, especially when they only occupy 50% of it at any one time.
MJ on a busy floor is dependent on people fitting the gaps that other people have just left. Otherwise you would get far fewer people on the floor. So why should WCS dancers be entitled to more room than anyone else?

Simon r
14th-April-2005, 11:57 AM
I'd hate it too- at a WCS night. But at a MJ night you could argue that WCS dancers have no right to expect their slot to be reserved for them, especially when they only occupy 50% of it at any one time.
MJ on a busy floor is dependent on people fitting the gaps that other people have just left. Otherwise you would get far fewer people on the floor. So why should WCS dancers be entitled to more room than anyone else?
hmmmm we talk about dancing in a slot for jive also ....
by dancing in a slot you can dance very close together whithout bumping in to each other that is the point ....
You are not reserving space it just works better on a busy dance floor and is much safer for all concerned....

Northants Girly
14th-April-2005, 12:02 PM
my least favourite is probably the stamping one.

:yeah: This always has the effect making me jump out of my skin :mad:

I also find it a little patronizing . . . . . as I find finger clicking too . . . . .

woe betide the guy that clicks his fingers at me on the dancefloor :angry:

Chef
14th-April-2005, 12:08 PM
Ok this one is quite close to the heart at the moment ...
you set yourself up in a nice slot the dance is going real smooth your both feeling the music and are well in to the groove (ok enough mood setting), then someone cut straight accross your line ... you look over give the nina stare ....but think well honest mistake ... then as you watch the couple doing there best impresion of a tazmanian devil they creep well and truly over and over your slot .....
End result i move away but just like a magnet were ever you go they seem to follow....
Bugger

This seems to be something that a lot of people suffer the affects of. I used to think that I had a large gravitational field around me and I was the only one that suffered like this. I would find myself boxed against a corner or edge of the dance floor looking past the couples that had squished me into this position only to see loads of completly empty dance space that the did not seem to want. They only seemed to want the bit that I was dancing on at that time.

Now, when confronted by these tasmanian devils I now dance so that I keep myself permanently between my partner (to protect her) and them. Within a very short time one of them crashes into my immobile frame and bounces off (am a fairlly large person). I don't know why they expect me to apologise. If they crashed into a door, wall, table or other immobile object it would still be entirely their own fault.

Nowadays I stand my ground and resist being herded. I find some clear dance space at the start of the track and dance in that space and if someone charges into that dance space then at some point we are going to collide. I will try my very best to avoid the women because they are being lead into that position by their men, but if the men have to have the experience of bouncing off of me to teach them floorcraft, then so be it. I have been herded around a dance floor by these dancers that can't end up in the same county as they started, too many times to be Mr Nice Guy any more.

Last thing. Have your conversations off of the dance floor. Dance floor is for dancing. If you are not dancing then you have no right to be there. If you have your conversations there then I, for one, will dance like you are just not there, until you decide to either dance or get the hell off the floor.

Darn it. I didn't wake up feeling militant this morning.

stewart38
14th-April-2005, 12:29 PM
Of course none of us have done what the poll suggests we are all whiter then white :sick:

Someone I know on this thread has a habit of taking about a 1/3rd of the dance floor when they dance regardless of how busy but hey they look good :wink:

Piglet
14th-April-2005, 12:29 PM
None of these annoy me very much.

Have to agree with jivecat re: the poll - none of that gets to me that I can think of, however....



... has breath like a pound of two-week old rotting steak
:yeah:

And I'm not keen on long nails either - nor watches that get in the way of drops - OUCH! :tears:

Also one guy wound me up cos he wasn't getting the body language thing about me HATING dancing with him - especially when he hit my head as he turned me. Thank goodness for those words "no, thank you!" So he doesn't wind me up any more.

alex
14th-April-2005, 12:29 PM
hmmmm we talk about dancing in a slot for jive also ....
by dancing in a slot you can dance very close together whithout bumping in to each other that is the point ....
You are not reserving space it just works better on a busy dance floor and is much safer for all concerned....If the man stays stationary, and always expects the same amount of space behind him as in front, then he effectively wants to reserve that space. But if you swap positions, you take up the minimal amount of space on the floor.

Many dance venues are too crowded to have a full slot to dance in, so you have to compromise, and not expect everyone else to make space for you.

Doing WCS (or MJ in a slot) doesn't absolve you from needing floorcraft.

bobgadjet
14th-April-2005, 12:48 PM
I'd hate it too- at a WCS night. But at a MJ night you could argue that WCS dancers have no right to expect their slot to be reserved for them, especially when they only occupy 50% of it at any one time.
MJ on a busy floor is dependent on people fitting the gaps that other people have just left. Otherwise you would get far fewer people on the floor. So why should WCS dancers be entitled to more room than anyone else?
Eerrrrm, scuse me, but I AM making a comment about dancing in the FREESTYLE session of the night.
I take that to mean ANY style of dance that fits the music, and the space available.
If a cha cha cha came on, and I had a particular passion to dance a cha cha cha with the partner I may have specifically chosen as she also might want to cha cha cha, then a cha cha cha I will do.
I was led to believe, so are many others, WCS in particular was designed to take up so much less space on the floor to any other form of jive. This has been demonstrated to me during lessons on many occasions.

Provided the music is right, if a dancefloor is very busy, I choose to WCS BECAUSE it takes up less space.

Anyway I was making a point MORE ABOUT those who, when I am dancing along the side of the floor, walk or dance THRU the space I am taking.

By your reply I would expect that "on a MJ night" you would not want anybody doing a rumba, or a cha cha cha, or a lindy, or a ballroom jive, or anything BUT MJ :eek:

Zuhal
14th-April-2005, 01:28 PM
Now, when confronted by these tasmanian devils I now dance so that I keep myself permanently between my partner (to protect her) and them. Within a very short time one of them crashes into my immobile frame and bounces off (am a fairlly large person). I don't know why they expect me to apologise. If they crashed into a door, wall, table or other immobile object it would still be entirely their own fault.

Nowadays I stand my ground and resist being herded. I find some clear dance space at the start of the track and dance in that space and if someone charges into that dance space then at some point we are going to collide. I will try my very best to avoid the women because they are being lead into that position by their men, but if the men have to have the experience of bouncing off of me to teach them floorcraft, then so be it. I have been herded around a dance floor by these dancers that can't end up in the same county as they started, too many times to be Mr Nice Guy any more.




Thats exactly what I do.

Zuhal

Simon r
14th-April-2005, 01:29 PM
If the man stays stationary, and always expects the same amount of space behind him as in front, then he effectively wants to reserve that space. But if you swap positions, you take up the minimal amount of space on the floor.

Many dance venues are too crowded to have a full slot to dance in, so you have to compromise, and not expect everyone else to make space for you.

Doing WCS (or MJ in a slot) doesn't absolve you from needing floorcraft.
hmmmm once again

1 who says how large a slot you need

I adjust my dance slot to the space required

2 Dancing in a slot requires the leader to send the follower up and down the slot in a straight line the leader needs to move off the slot and then back on so how do you lead standing still.

3 This is what i would consider part of floorcraft in my humble opinion.

I will always look in front and behind as i lead my follower and i think you will see a similar trait from those who dance whithin a slot.therefore taking full consideration of those around you.

Any chance we can get back on thread now... :flower:

spindr
14th-April-2005, 01:33 PM
My pet annoyance -- people obviously practicing for a forthcoming dance competition with little or no regard for the amount of space that they are taking up (*), and squashing every one else -- and the fact they don't use any floorcraft, 'cause they're so busy trying to do their next big "wow" move. :angry:

Bah humbug!

SpinDr.

(*) even if they don't take up a huge amount on the floor, their drops, throws and kicks mean that social dancing with an new partner you have to give them an extra wide berth in case they bu88er up the move and land on you/your partner.

Simon r
14th-April-2005, 01:35 PM
My pet annoyance -- people obviously practicing for a forthcoming dance competition with little or no regard for the amount of space that they are taking up (*), and squashing every one else -- and the fact they don't use any floorcraft, 'cause they're so busy trying to do their next big "wow" move. :angry:

Bah humbug!

SpinDr.

(*) even if they don't take up a huge amount on the floor, their drops, throws and kicks mean that social dancing with an new partner you have to give them an extra wide berth in case they bu88er up the move and land on you/your partner.
were do you dance

David Bailey
14th-April-2005, 01:41 PM
Any chance we can get back on thread now... :flower:
Well seeing as you ask nicely :)
Strangely enough, it looks like the "walking across the floor" option is the winner so far, even though no-one seems to be as worked up about it as the Tasmanian Devils (good name that, by the way).

Totally agree re: finger-clicking, although maybe I'm just jealous because my finger-clicking ability is very limited. On that topic, though, I do vaguely being taught a right-handed move, many years back, where finger-clicking on the left-hand was an optional component... Can't remember the move, maybe a hatchback-type thing?

Hell, I've gone off-topic again, haven't I.... :blush:

Sheepman
14th-April-2005, 01:42 PM
My pet annoyance -- people obviously practicing for a forthcoming dance competition Sorry! :blush:
But I hope I don't do this with no regard for others, I find the big moves are more often than not abandoned due to the proximity of other dancers.
But it gets my goat when it's people not dancing, who wander in and out of the space paying no attention. IMO opinion you should pay just as much attention when you're walking on/off/around the dance floor, as to when you're dancing on it.

Greg

David Bailey
14th-April-2005, 01:47 PM
My pet annoyance -- people obviously practicing for a forthcoming dance competition with little or no regard for the amount of space that they are taking up (*), and squashing every one else -- and the fact they don't use any floorcraft, 'cause they're so busy trying to do their next big "wow" move. :angry:

:yeah: :yeah:
Definitely - plus, similarly, someone trying to teach moves in the middle of the dance floor - it's a freestyle, people, move out of the way. Hmm, oops, actually, I did that for one move last week, glass houses etc.... :blush:

Lou
14th-April-2005, 01:48 PM
On that topic, though, I do vaguely being taught a right-handed move, many years back, where finger-clicking on the left-hand was an optional component... Can't remember the move, maybe a hatchback-type thing?

Hell, I've gone off-topic again, haven't I.... :blush:
A variation of Nigel's Move (AKA the Springer).

http://www.afterfive.co.uk/guide/latest/html/nigel_clicks_full.html

I loathe this move. It's so camp and naff. :mad:

spindr
14th-April-2005, 01:53 PM
were do you dance
?Where?

Used to have that problem dancing at Fleet -- but haven't been there for a while now!

I subscribe to the idea that everyone pays the same -- everyone gets the same amount of space (http://www.afterfive.co.uk/guide/latest/html/floor_craft.html#footnote-d0e4006) -- except of course Trampy when he's dancing with his harem, etc.

If people want to practice, hire a hall!

SpinDr.

Simon r
14th-April-2005, 02:05 PM
?Where?

Used to have that problem dancing at Fleet -- but haven't been there for a while now!

I subscribe to the idea that everyone pays the same -- everyone gets the same amount of space (http://www.afterfive.co.uk/guide/latest/html/floor_craft.html#footnote-d0e4006) -- except of course Trampy when he's dancing with his harem, etc.

If people want to practice, hire a hall!

SpinDr.
most do

Sheepman
14th-April-2005, 02:25 PM
most do Exactly, but I still need to practice in normal venues, as it has a much more "live" feel to it, and somehow it is much easier to keep going, track after track, than it is in a practice session. (Or is that just me?)

Greg

alex
14th-April-2005, 02:30 PM
Eerrrrm, scuse me, but I AM making a comment about dancing in the FREESTYLE session of the night.
I take that to mean ANY style of dance that fits the music, {snip}
If a cha cha cha came on, and I had a particular passion to dance a cha cha cha with the partner I may have specifically chosen as she also might want to cha cha cha, then a cha cha cha I will do.
So the next time the DJ plays a track I can foxtrot to, then I can get up and do a foxtrot and expect everyone to get out of my way. After all it is a freestyle and I should be free to do any style I want, irrespective of what anyone else wants to do.

{the bit I snipped}and the space available.Ok - so there wouldn't be space to do a foxtrot. But on a busy, predominantly MJ dance floor, there isn't the space for a full length WCS slot either. Just as there isn't room for each MJ couple to occupy their own circle. They have to compromise and squash together, so why shouldn't the WCS dancers compromise as well by shortening the slot? I was taught to do this by swapping places, rather than the man being almost stationary. Then you don't have to worry about the space behind you, because you never need it.

I was led to believe, so are many others, WCS in particular was designed to take up so much less space on the floor to any other form of jive. This has been demonstrated to me during lessons on many occasions.
Provided the music is right, if a dancefloor is very busy, I choose to WCS BECAUSE it takes up less space.I think you are wrong. Yes WCS is designed to fit more people on the floor. But only if everyone else is doing WCS. You can get more people doing MJ on a floor than a mix of people doing WCS and MJ. The two just don't fit together on a crowded floor without making a compromise.
I was led to believe this by a WCS teacher when he talked about mixing WCS and Hustle on the same floor. (Angel Figueroa - maybe you have heard of him?)


Anyway I was making a point MORE ABOUT those who, when I am dancing along the side of the floor, walk or dance THRU the space I am taking.If you are currently 'taking' that space, then you have every right to feel aggrieved. But your first post talked about 'space you just left'.


By your reply I would expect that "on a MJ night" you would not want anybody doing a rumba, or a cha cha cha, or a lindy, or a ballroom jive, or anything BUT MJYou can do anything you want. But on a MJ night you have to assume that the vast majority of people there are doing MJ, only know MJ, and have never heard or seen WCS, or Cha Cha Cha, or NightClub Two Step, or any other dance you can do. You can't blame them for moving into a space that they see is free, and would not imagine that you are going to occupy if you were doing the same as everyone else.

It is the responsibility of the one being different to be the first to compromise.


Dancing in a slot requires the leader to send the follower up and down the slot in a straight line the leader needs to move off the slot and then back on so how do you lead standing still.
Stationary was probably not the best word. I meant the man starting & finishing each move is the same place, and as a result making the lady travel a lot. The man has to move off the slot to let the lady past, but doesn't move up and down the slot himself. This is the way WCS is usually taught. It doesn't mean standing still throughout the entire dance.

I will always look in front and behind as i lead my follower and i think you will see a similar trait from those who dance whithin a slot.therefore taking full consideration of those around you.So if you look behind you, and see someone in the space you wanted to use, you have to make an adjustment, or do a different move. That is good floorcraft, and as a result the couple are no longer in your way. So what is the problem?


Any chance we can get back on thread now... Certainly.
It annoys me most when someone...
thinks I'm inconsiderate because I'm dancing where they they think they have a right to go

stewart38
14th-April-2005, 02:33 PM
?Where?

Used to have that problem dancing at Fleet -- but haven't been there for a while now!

I subscribe to the idea that everyone pays the same -- everyone gets the same amount of space (http://www.afterfive.co.uk/guide/latest/html/floor_craft.html#footnote-d0e4006) -- except of course Trampy when he's dancing with his harem, etc.

If people want to practice, hire a hall!

SpinDr.

you practice at Windsor dont you or have I got the wrong person ??

spindr
14th-April-2005, 03:22 PM
you practice at Windsor dont you or have I got the wrong person ??
I'm tending to dance MJ most regularly at GingerJive at Greenham -- but have been known to venture further afield :)

Only been to Windsor once -- and that was years'n'years ago.

SpinDr.

Re: mixing foxtrots/quickstep and MJ/Lindy -- there's no problem, as long as everyone is considerate (http://www.afterfive.co.uk/guide/latest/html/floor_craft.html#dealing_with_progressive_dance_st yles). For example, there's a rather nice 1940's dance held locally (in July?) where this happens.

Chef
14th-April-2005, 03:23 PM
But on a busy, predominantly MJ dance floor, there isn't the space for a full length WCS slot either. Just as there isn't room for each MJ couple to occupy their own circle. They have to compromise and squash together, so why shouldn't the WCS dancers compromise as well by shortening the slot? I was taught to do this by swapping places, rather than the man being almost stationary.

{big snip}

So if you look behind you, and see someone in the space you wanted to use, you have to make an adjustment, or do a different move. That is good floorcraft, and as a result the couple are no longer in your way. So what is the problem?



I have never, ever,ever, seen MJ in any of its forms taught as travelling in a circle. The men always stand in lines, side by side, with their partners in front of them. The class is taught and the women either end up where they started, or on the other side of the mans starting position.

So if you find you are dancing in a circle it is because you are not doing what you were taught.

So, no matter if you are dancing WCS or MJ you should be dancing in a slot because that is what you were taught. If you are all reasonable people you would arrange that your dancing slots are all parallel just like they are in the classes. Since parallel lines do not intersect no couple should intrude into any others dance space. Just like in the class.

So if your MJ circle dance that you have never been taught strays in to a anothers dance slot (be it WCS, MJ or cha cha) its your own fault for not doing the dance you were taught in the class.

Talking of good floorcraft. It is always wise to have a look along your dance slot before walking along it or sending your partner along it. But, if others would just dance in a slot they would never be in your dance slot to cause you a problem.

So before you whine that your MJ circle dance that scythes around the dance floor like the knives on Bodecias chariot sweeping all out of its path gets interupted by other people dancing in their own slot, just remember that it is you causing the problem because you can't dance in the slot as you were taught in the class. Nobody would have to compromise and squash together if everyone could just do what they were taught in the lesson.

{Rant over} My day is really going downhill fast.

El Salsero Gringo
14th-April-2005, 03:46 PM
I have never, ever,ever, seen MJ in any of its forms taught as travelling in a circle.

{snip}

So before you whine that your MJ circle dance that scythes around the dance floor like the knives on Bodecias chariot sweeping all out of its path gets interupted by other people dancing in their own slot, just remember that it is you causing the problem because you can't dance in the slot as you were taught in the class. Nobody would have to compromise and squash together if everyone could just do what they were taught in the lesson.

A bit harsh, and incorrect, to boot. There are many MJ moves that involve the follower walking around the leader, or the two dancers rotating around each other. Coming back to the same starting point is merely a convenience to make a lesson in rows practical, not an intrinsic feature of MJ.

If you really want to pursue the "your fault for not following the lesson" line then you would have to conclude it's the WCS dancer's fault - since WCS is never ever ever ever taught at Ceroc classes.

Chef, I hope your day rapidly improves from this point onwards!

alex
14th-April-2005, 03:54 PM
So before you whine that your MJ circle dance that scythes around the dance floor like the knives on Bodecias chariot sweeping all out of its path gets interupted by other people dancing in their own slot, just remember that it is you causing the problem because you can't dance in the slot as you were taught in the class. Nobody would have to compromise and squash together if everyone could just do what they were taught in the lesson.Sorry - MJ is naturally a circular dance. If it was naturally a slotted dance, then everyone would do it slotted, and you wouldn't have to actively keep it slotted. If you put one MJ couple on a large floor, and turned the lights out, they would rotate about each other in a clockwise direction. It is just the way the momentum takes you.

It might look better slotted. You might squeeze a few more people on the floor if everyone did it slotted. You can do things by keeping it slotted that you can't do when it rotates. But it takes a conscious effort to keep it slotted.

Ballroom Jive is the same, as is traditional Rock'n'Roll. Hustle is taught with a 'rotating slot' (like spokes on a wheel) to give the advantages of a slotted dance without fighting its natural tendency to rotate.

WCS is naturally a slotted dance. It is very hard to make it rotate.



anothers dance slot (be it WCS, MJ or cha cha)Since when has cha cha been a slotted dance? I doubt you could even force it into a slot if you tried.

David Bailey
14th-April-2005, 04:21 PM
I have never, ever,ever, seen MJ in any of its forms taught as travelling in a circle. ...
So if you find you are dancing in a circle it is because you are not doing what you were taught.
I usually dance in a circular way, but maybe I'm just doing it wrong, too old to change now though :)

It certainly feels like a circle-style dance. I guess the reason it's taught "slotted" is simple practicality - you can fit more people in rows than in a big circle, and it's easier to remember?

So (in a last desparate effort to remain OT), are circular dancers more annoying than "slotty" ones? :)

TheTramp
14th-April-2005, 04:23 PM
Sorry - MJ is naturally a circular dance. If it was naturally a slotted dance, then everyone would do it slotted, and you wouldn't have to actively keep it slotted.
Sorry. Disagree....

MJ is both a slotted, AND a circular dance. Depending on who is doing it. My own style is much more for the slotted dance. And there are plenty of people who naturally do it that way - and for me, from way before I'd even heard of the difference or tried any specific slotted dancing.

Just to add, that I don't think it's wrong, doing it in either way. It's just a personal preference....

Gadget
14th-April-2005, 04:35 PM
If the dance floor is that crowded, then you start doing blusier moves - I have no problem with that :devil::whistle: If there is a lot of space, you cen get a bit more flamboyant in moves and stylings {I also have no problem with that :innocent::whistle:}. I can't say that any dancer's floorcraft annoys me while they are dancing.

I am annoyed by tracks being cut short or blended into each other.

I am annoyed by disco lights blinding me in lessons.

I am annoyed by the one or two smokers that are inconsiderate.

and it annoys me that fruit juce is twice the price of any other drink.

Assides from that, I'm really difficult to wind up :D (honest!)

MartinHarper
14th-April-2005, 04:41 PM
I have never, ever, ever, seen MJ in any of its forms taught as travelling in a circle.

One MJ teacher local to me often says that dancing in lines is a convenience for the class and that "in freestyle it doesn't matter if you don't get all the way round" (etc).

David Franklin
14th-April-2005, 04:47 PM
Sorry - MJ is naturally a circular dance. If it was naturally a slotted dance, then everyone would do it slotted, and you wouldn't have to actively keep it slotted.Given that it is taught in a slot, I think there's room to suggest the circular nature is more bad technique than anything else. Certainly among the dancers I consider "advanced", slot dancing is more the norm, rather than the exception. (And I think you'll see the same thing if you look at successful competitors).


WCS is naturally a slotted dance. It is very hard to make it rotate.I don't pretend to know much about the history of WCS, but I do have a DVD with some of the early US Open routines. And if you look at the earliest classic routines (e.g. Joe Marchione and Patricia Michaels in 1984), the dance is hardly slotted at all. The woman goes 'round' the man in much the same way as MJ. Obviously as WCS is taught now (or even 15 years ago), it would be very hard to rotate it. WCS has changed and evolved - and I think a lot of the parallel changes are happening with MJ.

Chef
14th-April-2005, 04:54 PM
A bit harsh, and incorrect, to boot. There are many MJ moves that involve the follower walking around the leader, or the two dancers rotating around each other. Coming back to the same starting point is merely a convenience to make a lesson in rows practical, not an intrinsic feature of MJ.

If you really want to pursue the "your fault for not following the lesson" line then you would have to conclude it's the WCS dancer's fault - since WCS is never ever ever ever taught at Ceroc classes.

Chef, I hope your day rapidly improves from this point onwards!

The moves that involve the partners walking around each other have always been taught so that the end of the move results in the partners ending up back within theri dance slots. It is convenient in class situations that this happens so that the whole class ends up not walking over each other. It also happens that it is also convenient in freestyle that the whole room does not end up walking on each other. It is an intrinsic feature of MJ because that is the way it is taught and it is taught that way because it works that way.

The only reason that people whizz around in circles bashing people out of the way is because they can't dance the dance they were taught. It is nothing about there being a natural momentum in the clockwise direction, just that the blokes won't get out of the womans line of dance and so forces them to go around the man in a clockwise direction - it then becomes a habit. Which is why MJ women have extreme difficulty being led down the mans left hand side.

As for the other WCS dancer being in the wrong for dancing a slotted dance on your dance floor. It is each couples responsibility to avoid invading another couples dance space. It is not for them to get out of your way because you are careening out of control across the dance floor.

It is true that I have never seen WCS taught at Ceroc classes. I have seen tango, cha cha, samba, and hip hop taught quite regulary at Ceroc classes. I have also been told that Argetine tango "Ochos" are a new Ceroc registered move. Really! a 150 year old move is now a Ceroc registered move? Why not register the whole of waltz while you are at it. Be that it as it may. It still doesn't give you excuse for crashing into someone elses dance space just because you don't have the discipline to dance the dance you were taught.

[QOUTE=alex]Since when has cha cha been a slotted dance? I doubt you could even force it into a slot if you tried. [/QUOTE]

It has always been a slotted dance. It is just that the line of dance runs parallel or perpendicular to the mans body. One or both partners can orbit each other but the move always returns to the origional line of dance. Perhaps your experience of cha cha has been watching as it has been danced (badly) rather than watching it as it has been taught, in a similar way to MJ is not danced as it is taught and that is where the confusion lies.

Chef
14th-April-2005, 05:11 PM
One MJ teacher local to me often says that dancing in lines is a convenience for the class and that "in freestyle it doesn't matter if you don't get all the way round" (etc).

Does he also say that it doesn't matter which foot you step back on?

I don't suppose it really matters to your local MJ teacher if people are crashing into each other as long as nothing happen that they can be sued for. They have, after all, excercised their duty of care by teaching it to you correctly. If it doesn't matter if you don't get all the way around then why bother teaching it at all? Why not just say something like "turn around as far as you feel like"

When I explain Nuclear Magentic Resonance spectroscsopy to sixth formers I don't explain it to them in terms of quantum spin states. When their level of understanding increases to a level when they can grasp its importance I will will explain that to them.

The level of coaching increases with the competance of the student. Making the steps on the learning ladder too big just discourages the student but the end point of the ladder should not change.

El Salsero Gringo
14th-April-2005, 05:25 PM
My. We are in a tizz, aren't we?

{Big snip}

{another snip}

{slightly smaller snip}

It is not for them to get out of your way because you are careening out of control across the dance floor.Aha! So you *have* been watching me dance! What did you think of my "controlled falling-over before hitting the wall" technique? Cute, no?
It is true that I have never seen WCS taught at Ceroc classes. I have seen tango, cha cha, samba, and hip hop taught quite regulary at Ceroc classes. I have also been told that Argetine tango "Ochos" are a new Ceroc registered move. Really! a 150 year old move is now a Ceroc registered move? Why not register the whole of waltz while you are at it.Can you tell me what you mean by a "registered move"? Registered with whom? In what kind of register? And for what purpose? I've never heard of such a thing, and I doubt it exists. If on the other hand you mean, an 'official' move that Ceroc internally recommend to their teachers with a formal teaching method, then great! About bloody time too!
Be that it as it may. It still doesn't give you excuse for crashing into someone elses dance space just because you don't have the discipline to dance the dance you were taught.Quite right. It all comes down to discipline. That's what we need more of. Discipline.

Sheepman
14th-April-2005, 05:53 PM
It's quite annoying when threads go so off slot, sorry I mean off thread, that it's all been discussed before, :wink: for example slotted dancing (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3203)
Greg

bobgadjet
14th-April-2005, 06:02 PM
If the dance floor is that crowded, then you start doing blusier moves - I have no problem with that :devil::whistle: If there is a lot of space, you cen get a bit more flamboyant in moves and stylings {I also have no problem with that :innocent::whistle:}. I can't say that any dancer's floorcraft annoys me while they are dancing.

I am annoyed by tracks being cut short or blended into each other.

I am annoyed by disco lights blinding me in lessons.

I am annoyed by the one or two smokers that are inconsiderate.

and it annoys me that fruit juce is twice the price of any other drink.

Assides from that, I'm really difficult to wind up :D (honest!)

Easy to annoy though :D

I think it's about time the govenment got control of drinks prices and put a lid on what can be charged for non-alcoholic drinks.
Why don't they state that non-alcoholic drinks CANNOT be more than 60% of the price of a similar sized beer, ie: pint for pint?

alex
14th-April-2005, 06:11 PM
Given that it is taught in a slot, I think there's room to suggest the circular nature is more bad technique than anything else.By the same token it is taught with a "semi circle with the hand and step back". So is the semi-circle good technique?


Certainly among the dancers I consider "advanced", slot dancing is more the norm, rather than the exception.There are a few who dance in a slot, but there are quite a few who don't. The only advanced dancer I know on first name terms does MJ in a slot because he always dances at the edge of the floor for safety reasons.


And I think you'll see the same thing if you look at successful competitorsAren't they told to do that so that they always present it to the judges? The whole dancing in a slot came from Dean Collins doing Lindy for films. It was done because it looked better for the camera. It had nothing to do with crowded dance floors or a good skill for advanced dancers to learn.


I don't pretend to know much about the history of WCS, but I do have a DVD with some of the early US Open routines. And if you look at the earliest classic routines (e.g. Joe Marchione and Patricia Michaels in 1984), the dance is hardly slotted at all. The woman goes 'round' the man in much the same way as MJ.I've seen that DVD. It is from the US Open Swing Dance Championships. The rules have always allowed any style of Swing, so it doesn't have to be WCS. Ryan Francois and Sing Lim competed in the '90s doing Lindy. Michael Norris has won it doing Carolina Shag. I never figured out what the early showcase couples were doing, but it looked more like a cross between Lindy and Rock'n'Roll than West Coast Swing. I have to admit though my main recollection of the first part of the DVD was embarrassment at the costumes.

I have nothing against dancing in a slot. My only complaint was people expecting a full-length slot to be theirs for the entire dance, at the expense of other couples dancing on a crowded floor.


Perhaps your experience of cha cha has been watching as it has been danced (badly) rather than watching it as it has been taughtNo. It has been from learning it from an ISTD qualified teacher, and watching people like Sammy Stopford & Barbara McCall demonstrating a basic Cha Cha. (I'm showing my age now!)


It still doesn't give you excuse for crashing into someone elses dance space just because you don't have the discipline to dance the dance you were taught.Neither does it give them the right to crash into me just because they are doing what they have been taught irrespective of how crowded the floor is.

And I was taught that MJ is circular. Originally by Janie and more recently by DavidB.

The only space you have any right to is the space you are currently occupying. A MJ dancer who is dancing in a circular fashion doesn't have exclusive rights to a circle 5 feet in radius around the man. By a similar token a couple dancing in a slot (WCS or MJ) doesn't have exclusive rights to 5 feet of space immediately behind the man. You use it if it is there. You do something else if it isn't. If everyone was being nice then here would be enough spare room for everyone to have a good dance.


Alex

David Bailey
14th-April-2005, 06:22 PM
Quite right. It all comes down to discipline. That's what we need more of. Discipline.
Yes, so stay on-thread, you slob :whistle:

I've decided what annoys me most is thread mutation. :)


I think it's about time the govenment got control of drinks prices and put a lid on what can be charged for non-alcoholic drinks.
Why don't they state that non-alcoholic drinks CANNOT be more than 60% of the price of a similar sized beer, ie: pint for pint?
You too!
Oh, OK then, I can never resist a good whinge.... The profit margin on soft drinks is massive, much more than on alcoholic drinks (especially the dodgy soft drinks at Ashtons :angry: ). I'm always surprised that venue organisers don't cotton on to the fact that MJ dancers don't drink alcohol, and get their act together when it comes to soft drinks. A soft drinks "bar" like at Hipsters is fine for at least 90% of dancers, and costs so much less to set up.

Hey, at least I heroically resisted the temptation to dive into the slot debate :) (although I resent being told I have bad technique, especially if it's true...)

David Franklin
14th-April-2005, 06:27 PM
I think it's about time the govenment got control of drinks prices and put a lid on what can be charged for non-alcoholic drinks.
Why don't they state that non-alcoholic drinks CANNOT be more than 60% of the price of a similar sized beer, ie: pint for pint? :yeah: Worst offender I've seen is a certain venue we both know well that (often) only serves coke in 125ml bottles at roughly 7 pounds per pint. Maybe it's just me, but I find almost all the prices absolutely shocking there. And then they wonder why people sneak in bottles of water (which I don't condone, but I understand the temptation).

ChrisA
14th-April-2005, 06:46 PM
When I explain Nuclear Magentic Resonance spectroscsopy to sixth formers I don't explain it to them in terms of quantum spin states. When their level of understanding increases to a level when they can grasp its importance I will will explain that to them.

Actually been working today, so haven't been reading the forum till now.

But I'd like to nominate Chef as "fave forum member of the day" for providing humour (well, it's amused me :devil: ), and for saving me a ton of typing.

:cheers: :worthy:

Just to stir the pot a little, two points that haven't been made for a while:

A lot of the circular nature of MJ that happens "naturally" (as opposed to being led) happens because a lot of ladies can't do a return on the spot. They invariably travel a little during the return, thus rotating the slot a bit. Do this every couple of moves, and of course the slot rotates and the dance becomes circular.

But it is poor technique (not just from the ladies; a lot of guys just don't lead a return on the spot, but I'm not sure if this is just taking the line of least resistance :devil: ) - and it leads to floorcraft problems too. This is because when the lady rotates out of the slot, unled, the guy will not have been able to ensure that the space she's moving into is clear, because he can't predict where she's going.

All that said, Amir sometimes teaches a circular style of MJ, as a specific stylistic variation on dancing in a slot. But it's got a different look and feel, from the randomly revolving nature of a lot of MJ dancing.

For the record, I have no objection to intentionally rotating the slot through any arbitrary angle to suit the conditions, the dancers, or anything else for that matter. But it works much better, and reduces the risk of collisions, if it's led and followed.

frodo
14th-April-2005, 09:24 PM
I'd hate it too- at a WCS night. But at a MJ night you could argue that WCS dancers have no right to expect their slot to be reserved for them, especially when they only occupy 50% of it at any one time.
MJ on a busy floor is dependent on people fitting the gaps that other people have just left. Otherwise you would get far fewer people on the floor. So why should WCS dancers be entitled to more room than anyone else?(was quoted inside bobgadjet's post below)
Eerrrrm, scuse me, but I AM making a comment about dancing in the FREESTYLE session of the night.
I take that to mean ANY style of dance that fits the music, and the space available.
If a cha cha cha came on, and I had a particular passion to dance a cha cha cha with the partner I may have specifically chosen as she also might want to cha cha cha, then a cha cha cha I will do.
I was led to believe, so are many others, WCS in particular was designed to take up so much less space on the floor to any other form of jive. This has been demonstrated to me during lessons on many occasions.

Provided the music is right, if a dancefloor is very busy, I choose to WCS BECAUSE it takes up less space.

Anyway I was making a point MORE ABOUT those who, when I am dancing along the side of the floor, walk or dance THRU the space I am taking.

By your reply I would expect that "on a MJ night" you would not want anybody doing a rumba, or a cha cha cha, or a lindy, or a ballroom jive, or anything BUT MJ :eek:
I think it might be put that you can't expect people at a modern jive night to understand WCS ect. dances in a slot etc. and so what space should be your space.

Little Monkey
14th-April-2005, 10:38 PM
If the dance floor is that crowded, then you start doing blusier moves - I have no problem with that

I would have a problem with that - if it was to fast music (swing, rock'n'roll etc). Bluesy moves are good for bluesy music.... Or at least slower music....

If the music is fast (or there's limited space on the floor), there's lots of other ways of taking up less space on the floor, like doing less travelling moves, keeping arms "short", girls could try to spin more on the spot etc etc etc.... List could go on and on, but I'm too tired to think.....

LM :flower:

Gadget
14th-April-2005, 11:07 PM
If the music is fast (or there's limited space on the floor), there's lots of other ways of taking up less space on the floor,
If it's fast music and that crowded, I will dance in a corredor, on the carpet, somewhere between seats, ... (if everyone is on the floor, there's bound to be some space off it somewhere! :D)
Fast track generally means lots of spins and blocks with a tighter, closer lead anyway; if it resorts to "combat dancing", then it's no longer fun - and if I'm not having fun, what's the point of dancing? :tears:

Little Monkey
14th-April-2005, 11:12 PM
If it's fast music and that crowded, I will dance in a corredor, on the carpet, somewhere between seats, ... (if everyone is on the floor, there's bound to be some space off it somewhere! :D)

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



Fast track generally means lots of spins and blocks with a tighter, closer lead anyway; if it resorts to "combat dancing", then it's no longer fun - and if I'm not having fun, what's the point of dancing? :tears:

Good boy. :D

And yeah, dancing has to be FUN, or what's the point??!! :clap:

LM

ChrisA
14th-April-2005, 11:13 PM
I think it might be put that you can't expect people at a modern jive night to understand WCS ect. dances in a slot etc. and so what space should be your space.
The vast majority of people that dance Ceroc or any other variant of MJ have done every lesson they've ever participated in, in a slot.

This is slightly harder than not giving a damn about your orientation, and, give that floorcraft is very rarely taught, people tend to revert to the slightly easier circular dancing.

You don't have to understand WCS to dance in a slot, just do it the way you were taught in the class.

Chef
14th-April-2005, 11:32 PM
OK guys. You do what you want. The bottom line is that if you dance out of my dance slot then I can guarantee not to hit you, if you whizz around like a dervish then I can't. Your choice.

I will be talking to DavidB about him teaching the dancing in random directions assertion by Alex. I have never seen David and Lilly dance like that, nor have I ever heard them teach this. My Monday night dance teachers (who teach me Cha Cha) are also ISTD qualified so maybe the teaching method has changed over the years. I am not sure what Anton Du Bekes' qualifications are.

I have no problem dancing on crowded dance floors. I am a survivor of Camber many times over, after all. Crowded is one thing. Poor floor craft is another, Not being able to dance without falling over is yet another thing.

ESG. No I haven't knowingly see you dance but if yours is an accurate description of your own dancing then I can say I have seen many many examples of it, and no, it isn't cute.

Commis Chef
14th-April-2005, 11:57 PM
And I was taught that MJ is circular. Originally by Janie and more recently by DavidB.

The only space you have any right to is the space you are currently occupying. A MJ dancer who is dancing in a circular fashion doesn't have exclusive rights to a circle 5 feet in radius around the man. By a similar token a couple dancing in a slot (WCS or MJ) doesn't have exclusive rights to 5 feet of space immediately behind the man. You use it if it is there. You do something else if it isn't. If everyone was being nice then here would be enough spare room for everyone to have a good dance.


Alex

When I have danced with David B it has always felt very slotted to me. Maybe he can comment.


If no one can expect a space where they are obviously about to move into, then we would all just stand and jiggle. How can a lead plan the next move if he cannot know which space he can move his partner to?

As a follower I am most annoyed by leads who are never where I expect them to be as I move back across them and I have to re-orient all the time. The slot does not need to be as precise as in WCS but especially in travelling spins and crossing body moves it is confusing if they are in a different plane every time.

spindr
15th-April-2005, 12:42 AM
Ah well, have learnt both styles.

If the teacher doesn't say to the guys to get off of the lady's line -- but just step forwards & lead the lady forwards -- then *both* partners can't occupy the same space on the dance floor :)

Choices are: the guy shifts completely left, the girl shifts completely left or some compromise.

Option 1: is slotted for the lady.
Option 2: is slotted for the man.
Option 3: slotted for neither.

E.g. travelling return
Option 1: lady moves forwards
Option 2: lady travels on two sides of a diamond (or curve) around the guy.
Option 3: each partner travels on two sides of a diamond (or curve) around each other.

As long as all students do the same, then there will be no collisions in class -- everyone's "rectangular patch" may shift a bit left/right -- but that's ok!

Cheers,
SpinDr.

P.S. D'you think dancing with a WCS teacher he's likely to use a slotted style? :whistle:

El Salsero Gringo
15th-April-2005, 01:07 AM
The vast majority of people that dance Ceroc or any other variant of MJ have done every lesson they've ever participated in, in a slot.

This is slightly harder than not giving a damn about your orientation, and, give that floorcraft is very rarely taught, people tend to revert to the slightly easier circular dancing.There are some followers who insist on 'orbiting'. It's possible to prevent them from doing so with a stronger lead, but I find it really tiring and unenjoyable, so I give up and let them get on with it.

(Yes, I know it's always the lead's fault, yada yada yada, but basically no - if she wants to move round in circles, she's going to.)


ESG. No I haven't knowingly see you dance but if yours is an accurate description of your own dancing then I can say I have seen many many examples of it, and no, it isn't cute.I've never seen anyone else dance in the way you describe, so by elimination it *must* be me.

Gadget
15th-April-2005, 08:39 AM
(Yes, I know it's always the lead's fault, yada yada yada, but basically no - if she wants to move round in circles, she's going to.)not entirley true; "curcular" ladies can be led into slots, but it takes a lot of work and a lot of fairly strict leading... more often than not it's easier just to go with the flow and rotate with them. :)

Actually, another thing that bugs me are ladys who turn too quickly; you then have to play with the timing to let the next beat catch up. :(

Another one is partners not seeming to enjoy themselves; I'm always wondering what I'm doing wrong if my partner dosn't smile occasionally. :D

David Bailey
15th-April-2005, 09:26 AM
Actually, another thing that bugs me are ladys who turn too quickly; you then have to play with the timing to let the next beat catch up. :(

Hey, back on track! :)

Too-fast turning happens a lot, doesn't it - I guess it's because some followers are worried that they won't finish the turn in time. OK, yes, that's another thing that peeves me a little, but you can usually work around it, I wouldn't put it so far as "annoyance" level, certainly not as much as stamping and yelling :)

MartinHarper
15th-April-2005, 10:03 AM
DavidB already commented on the thread on slotted dancing (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3203) - or people could read his contribution to the equivalent thread (http://www.ceroc.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=175) on Ceroc Australia.


The bottom line is that if you dance out of my dance slot then I can guarantee not to hit you.

Ahh, I think I see the problem here. You think it's your dance slot, but in fact your dance slot is just a smaller part of my dance floor. :)
(next time I go dancing, I'm going to have to bring a flag...)

Sparkles
15th-April-2005, 10:05 AM
Did anyone notice the brief mention of threads that run of topic and how extremely ANNOYING it is (especially when it's a debate that has been had over and over and OVER again and has a rather hefty thread already devoted to it)?!

{Sparkles walks quietly from this thread and hopes that if she ever dares return to it the age-old saga of whether you should dance in a slot or a circle :angry: has been put quietly to sleep}

Chef
15th-April-2005, 10:43 AM
Ahh, I think I see the problem here. You think it's your dance slot, but in fact your dance slot is just a smaller part of my dance floor. :)
(next time I go dancing, I'm going to have to bring a flag...)

If you do it near me bring a flag that can double up as bandages, sling etc. I am fairly large and most people bounce off of me even when they hit me as I am standing still.

Not asking for much. Just that as the whirling dervishes of the dance floor treat the whole dance floor as theirs they have some consideration for me and my desire to dance in a fairly small rectangle. If you don't give this consideration to other dancers you can't really expect the same consideration from them. It would really be much simpler for everyone if the whirling dervishes of the dance floor would just learn to dance.

Sparkles (I can't yet do this thing of quotes from multiple posts) you haven't caught the Martin Harper thing of pointing out that this subject has been talked about before have you? We all know that almost everything has been talked about before but we want to talk about it again now otherwise with no more subjects to talk about there would be no reason to ever post anything ever again.

Happy Dancing

bobgadjet
15th-April-2005, 10:51 AM
We all know that almost everything has been talked about before but we want to talk about it again now otherwise with no more subjects to talk about there would be no reason to ever post anything ever again.

Happy Dancing
Could this be a new thread for you to start maybe .......

is there a need to re-start a thread

with several options on a poll :nice:
:cheers:

MartinHarper
15th-April-2005, 11:20 AM
Perhaps - but I'm sure some smart alec would point out the existing thread on being off topic (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3460&highlight=off+topic)... :)

ChrisA
15th-April-2005, 11:48 AM
is there a need to re-start a thread

Is it my imagination, or has the level of thread-splicing that the moderators engage in dropped off in recent times?

ISTR that not that many months ago major digressions on a thread would fairly smartly result in a restructuring of the relevant threads so as to restore some sort of continuity.

Failing that, I can't see how to avoid the digressions. People change the subject in real life all the time, and this forum is much more like a bunch of people in a pub chatting about all kinds of things, than it is about a more structured conversation like a debating chamber (and long may it remain so).

The other thing is, once you've had one email notification of a post on the thread, you don't get another one until you've visited the thread.

It's quite easy to not read that email for some time - if I fail to read it I might end up just looking at the recent posts and maybe comment on something in those. So it's very easy to miss a major digression :blush:

Having said all that, I think the slots/circles issue, or more specifically the lack of consideration displayed by people using large circles on crowded dance floors, is something that people get annoyed about, so maybe it's not so off-topic after all :flower:

Jooles
15th-April-2005, 12:17 PM
Am I the only person relieved to see only two people annoyed by partners who sing along?. I've been warned by friends that it's not cool to do it, but I find it impossible to resist when it's a track I love and I know the words to.

Northants Girly
15th-April-2005, 12:39 PM
Am I the only person relieved to see only two people annoyed by partners who sing along?. I've been warned by friends that it's not cool to do it, but I find it impossible to resist when it's a track I love and I know the words to.No - I love it when people sing along - you get the feeling they are enjoying the dance :)

It makes me giggle though when you are dancing with a big strong bloke and he is singing along to something like Kylie!

Piglet
15th-April-2005, 12:44 PM
Am I the only person relieved to see only two people annoyed by partners who sing along?. I've been warned by friends that it's not cool to do it, but I find it impossible to resist when it's a track I love and I know the words to.

I love singing along to a good song whilst dancing but have to say I thought it looked rather naff when I saw a competitor on SDF doing it.

I can have a really good giggle singing and dancing with some of the guys up here - it adds to the enjoyment for me and I think for them too - always has us smiling anyway.

Have to agree with Gadget about the smoking near the dancefloor thing though... Though its not appeared to be as bad lately.... :nice:

MartinHarper
15th-April-2005, 01:48 PM
Does anyone do duets when they dance?

El Salsero Gringo
15th-April-2005, 02:29 PM
Does anyone do duets when they dance?No, but I'm well up for giving it a go. How about the Linda Ronstadt/Aaron Nevllie Duet, Don't know much - or alternatively Something Stupid ?

Chef
15th-April-2005, 02:44 PM
Just thought I would let everyone know that David Barker has posted on the thread on slotted dancing that MJ is a circular dance.

His word is good enough for me.

I take it all back and will be dancing and sweeping out a large circle around me in future. I used to think that people were just inconsiderate and inept when they would barrel across the dance floor and hit me as I tried to keep out of their way in my small slot.

Its quite a relief to know that I am at least allowed to fight back.

Happy dancing

David Bailey
15th-April-2005, 03:27 PM
Am I the only person relieved to see only two people annoyed by partners who sing along?. I've been warned by friends that it's not cool to do it, but I find it impossible to resist when it's a track I love and I know the words to.
Well, I meant other people (i.e. not your partner) singing along loudly enough for you to hear them. As for your partner singing along, I'm not bothered, can take it or leave it...

Lynn
15th-April-2005, 03:58 PM
No - I love it when people sing along - you get the feeling they are enjoying the dance :) I'm shy about asking guys up for a dance, a song came on that I liked so I asked a guy nearby, we had a nice dance and both 'sang along' at times (not audibly!) - which I thought was nice as obviously it was a song he liked too and he was enjoying the dance as well!

But I agree it would be irritating if it was loud enough to hear, it would distract from the dance.

Gadget
15th-April-2005, 04:27 PM
I tihnk it's a brilliant way to get beginners to loosen up, relax and enjoy the dance.. :D

Dreadful Scathe
15th-April-2005, 04:40 PM
There are some followers who insist on 'orbiting'. It's possible to prevent them from doing so with a stronger lead,

..or a slap round the head.

But it should be added that ladies only orbit EL Gringero because of the gravitational pull of his personality :)


not entirley true; "curcular" ladies can be led into slots

"Curcles" do not go into slots - you didnt pay attention in Nursery did you ? :)

David Bailey
15th-April-2005, 04:42 PM
I tihnk it's a brilliant way to get beginners to loosen up, relax and enjoy the dance.. :D
"Ceroc-Kareoke"! It's a sure-fire thing. How is it no-one's thought of that before?!?! (I'm sure MartinHarper will tell me if they have :whistle: )

Lory
15th-April-2005, 04:46 PM
I NEVER sing outloud!!! :whistle:

Dreadful Scathe
15th-April-2005, 04:47 PM
CEROC-A-OKE , just wear a head mic :)

El Salsero Gringo
15th-April-2005, 05:04 PM
..or a slap round the head.

But it should be added that ladies only orbit EL Gringero because of the gravitational pull of his personality :)I think the gravity is caused by a black hole that sits where my brain used to be.

Gadget
15th-April-2005, 08:43 PM
CEROC-A-OKE , just wear a head mic :)
you've not been to any of Lorna's classes have you? :whistle:

KatieR
20th-June-2005, 03:28 PM
What about 'pays no attention to where they are dancing and who is around them therefore smacking into other couples dancing...'??

Purple Sparkler
20th-June-2005, 04:36 PM
What about 'pays no attention to where they are dancing and who is around them therefore smacking into other couples dancing...'??

I was about to say the exact same thing!

And ESG- it's more like bees circling a honey-pot (we all know where the Chocolate Nemesis originates, after all!)

Jon L
20th-June-2005, 09:01 PM
What hacks me off is when you have started dancing and another couple start so close to you that you can't turn or return your partner.

Men over 6' and are broad can be a problem as they can be "blind" and not realise that they take up a lot of room.

I have seen some considerate big men who do look carefully but I have often been struck on the shoulders, and have often thought of putting on chevron tape on mine (I am 5'5'' tall but with quite a broad build)

Dreadful Scathe
21st-June-2005, 09:32 AM
you've not been to any of Lorna's classes have you? :whistle:

I dont think I had before but was at her class in Dundee last week, I know see what you mean. Shes hilarious :)

to quote "and a 5..6..7..awww thats such a nice tune" :)

Funky Mado
21st-June-2005, 11:27 PM
I was at an Edinburgh party once and was up on the dance floor having a great dance, but then this couple came charging through and the guy tripped me up (I hope not on purpose :tears: ) and I fell!!! :eek:
As I sat in shock (and slight wonder if I had flashed as I was wearing a rather short dress :o :blush: ) on the floor for a second I realised the guy who tripped me up was just watching me in a heap on the floor as he just kept dancing but he didn't even say sorry!! My partner got me up and we kept dancing but I was so shocked that A. he didn't realise that he acturally tripped me, B. if he did realise that he had, he didn't even care to apologise and C. that even if he didn't have anything to do with it he didn't show ANY simpathy at all!! :(
That is what ticks me off, it's not SO much the fact that we bump into each other because if it's crowded it's bound to happen, it's just if it does happen, apologise if you knock them in a delicate place i.e face, chest, ect. or elbow them, or unfortunatly it was a rather hard hit, and if some one falls over, at least help them up!
-I gave the guy the evils the rest of the night :mad: -

DangerousCurves
22nd-June-2005, 01:28 PM
he hit my head as he turned me.


That's one I get quite a lot too... partially my own fault as a tall lady addicted to foolish high heels - but I do note that it doesn't tend to be the shorter guys who do it (perhaps because they are used to stretching up for turns) but instead the medium sized guys who are probably used to easily making it over a lady's head.

I have a ridiculously poor startle threashold, so it always makes me jump out of my skin.

Another least favourite thing is being flung around (usually at speed) by an uncontrolled lead. Like I said, I'm not a small lady and I start feeling like the hammer in an olympic throwing competition - if I land on someone I'm going to cause widespread devastation! Its the only thing I've ever stopped a dance with someone for.

Donna
22nd-June-2005, 01:55 PM
People who chew gum while they're dancing :angry:
People who stand in the middle of the floor and have a chat after they've finished a dance so everyone has to dance around them for the next track.
People who stand on your feet or knock into you and don't apologise.
There are probably many more, but I'll stop now or everyone will be telling me I'm whinging :tears: :wink:
S. x


Huh! Someone woman run there three inch heel right down the side of my right ankle in the ceroc champs!!! I honestly thought I wouldn't be able to carry on... and to be honest, it's still quite sensitive now. I think a lot of women should be banned from wearing heels that are more than two inches long and are almost as thin as a needle.....OOOUUUUCCCHHH!!!!

DangerousCurves
22nd-June-2005, 02:12 PM
[QUOTE=Donna
I think a lot of women should be banned from wearing heels that are more than two inches long and are almost as thin as a needle[/QUOTE]

That's a good one!

I once had another lady's stilletto slide inside the heel of my shoe. We were fastened together, as she took a step unwittingly but couldn't slide it out again. She nearly fell, and I got a nasty cut to my heel. We were both pretty shocked as well - a complete freak accident but NASTY! :tears:

LMC
22nd-June-2005, 11:26 PM
Goody! No-one has yet mentioned yankers on this thread so I can have a lovely little rant all of my very very own about tonight's fine example - a woman who was leading in the beginners class.

She told me my arms were stiff and I wasn't following 'flexibly'. That was because I happen to like my shoulder joints to be in their sockets - darned inconsiderate of me I know.

She hit me over the head a couple of times on turns too - which very rarely happens with even much shorter guys - shorter than her even (I'm 5'11 in my dancing shoes).

So I got a weeeeeeeeee bit stroppy and told her that I refuse to duck. So there. Well, it doesn't look nice does it?

Northants Girly
22nd-June-2005, 11:33 PM
So I got a weee bit stroppy and told her that I refuse to duck. So there. Well, it doesn't look nice does it?Well it's better than being smacked in the head :wink:

LMC
22nd-June-2005, 11:44 PM
Well it's better than being smacked in the head :wink:

Might knock some sense into me? Probably more a case of where there's no sense there's no feeling.

Actually, I do duck when necessary - but there shouldn't have been a need to duck with her, she wasn't that much shorter than me. The problem was caused by her [censored] yanking.

Trousers
23rd-June-2005, 12:04 AM
Goody! No-one has yet mentioned yankers on this thread so I can have a lovely little rant all of my very very own about tonight's fine example - a woman who was leading in the beginners class.

She told me my arms were stiff and I wasn't following 'flexibly'. That was because I happen to like my shoulder joints to be in their sockets - darned inconsiderate of me I know.

She hit me over the head a couple of times on turns too - which very rarely happens with even much shorter guys - shorter than her even (I'm 5'11 in my dancing shoes).

So I got a weeeeeeeeee bit stroppy and told her that I refuse to duck. So there. Well, it doesn't look nice does it?
To actually get up the guts to say to the person you are dancing with "you are stiff" or "slow down" is quite a feat. Even in a class.

Therefore as an impartial, It wasn't me, I wasn't there type of Forumite I would suggest that possibly ..... just possibly there may have been the slightest bit of stiffness in your arms..? maybe

If your lead told you that you were stiff then take a deep breath, step back, put your brain in gear and think about it. What has the lead got to gain from sayin those things? Nothing but a better dance.

LMC
23rd-June-2005, 08:50 AM
To actually get up the guts to say to the person you are dancing with "you are stiff" or "slow down" is quite a feat. Even in a class.

Fair comment - I was too chicken to tell her she was yanking me (she's a taxi).


Therefore as an impartial, It wasn't me, I wasn't there type of Forumite I would suggest that possibly ..... just possibly there may have been the slightest bit of stiffness in your arms..? maybe

If your lead told you that you were stiff then take a deep breath, step back, put your brain in gear and think about it. What has the lead got to gain from sayin those things? Nothing but a better dance.

I WAS stiff, she was right - but only because she was yanking me about. I have frequently been complimented on being a good follower for someone who's only been dancing 6 or 7 weeks. Obviously, compliments are easier to give than constructive criticism, which I usually take in the spirit intended and am very grateful for - but the way this woman phrased it just really p****d me off.

David Bailey
23rd-June-2005, 09:07 AM
I WAS stiff, she was right - but only because she was yanking me about. I have frequently been complimented on being a good follower for someone who's only been dancing 6 or 7 weeks. Obviously, compliments are easier to give than constructive criticism, which I usually take in the spirit intended and am very grateful for - but the way this woman phrased it just really p****d me off.
Tricky area. On the one hand, there are yankers, and they are of course Evil People. And people giving advice in the middle of a class are not always the best to listen to.

On the other hand, some people require, ahem, stronger leads than others, and a main function a taxi dancer is to give advice...

Possibly this taxi may not have been an experienced leader, and may have applied excessively-strong leading, and you got stiff because you didn't like being yanked, and so it went all downhill from there...? I dunno, it's all speculation really.

LMC
21st-July-2005, 12:13 AM
:mad:

It annoys me when the teacher tries to be too funny. Stupid stuff/cheesy moves in classes/hamming it all up at Christmas is fine - MJ is supposed to be fun.

But THREE "cheesy" moves in one intermediate class? I got bored with walking round my partner (move 1) and then standing there while he walked around me (move 2) and I hate "duck" moves anyway (move 3 was basket, step forward then duck backwards under lead's arm, bashing head on way because you can't b****y see).

OK, that last one might be a personal preference thing - but TWO of the moves were definitely silly and taught as silly moves - which is ONE too many for a "non-general-occasion" class (silliness is fine, but in moderation?). Even if the teacher is going on holiday. You know who you are, and I apologise for the rant if you see this - but I got nothing out of tonight's intermediate class, frankly. Glad I made it to the beginners', which was, as always, grand (esp. since we were moving men on :D )

spindr
21st-July-2005, 01:00 AM
But THREE "cheesy" moves in one intermediate class? I got bored with walking round my partner (move 1) and then standing there while he walked around me (move 2) and I hate "duck" moves anyway (move 3 was basket, step forward then duck backwards under lead's arm, bashing head on way because you can't b****y see).
Hmmm, the leader can give you a hint to duck as he pulls you into his right side by bringing his right elbow up slightly from waist height and pushing your back slightly, so that you start to lean forwards -- before you start to actually go under his arm.

SpinDr.

bobgadjet
21st-July-2005, 09:23 AM
:mad:

It annoys me when the teacher tries to be too funny. Stupid stuff/cheesy moves in classes/hamming it all up at Christmas is fine - MJ is supposed to be fun.

But THREE "cheesy" moves in one intermediate class? I got bored with walking round my partner (move 1) and then standing there while he walked around me (move 2) and I hate "duck" moves anyway (move 3 was basket, step forward then duck backwards under lead's arm, bashing head on way because you can't b****y see).

OK, that last one might be a personal preference thing - but TWO of the moves were definitely silly and taught as silly moves - which is ONE too many for a "non-general-occasion" class (silliness is fine, but in moderation?). Even if the teacher is going on holiday. You know who you are, and I apologise for the rant if you see this - but I got nothing out of tonight's intermediate class, frankly. Glad I made it to the beginners', which was, as always, grand (esp. since we were moving men on :D )

Seems to me you were not that impressed with the lesson then ?

LMC
21st-July-2005, 09:29 AM
Hmmm, the leader can give you a hint to duck as he pulls you into his right side by bringing his right elbow up slightly from waist height and pushing your back slightly, so that you start to lean forwards -- before you start to actually go under his arm.

SpinDr.

I am tall (nearly 6' by the time I'm wearing my shiny shoes), so doing a duck move with a short lead is not easy - and if it's a backwards duck, you can't see where the lead's arms are. Having never had a 'duck' move led on me in freestyle I can't comment definitively on whether the guys were leading it well or not - as a follow, however much you try not to backlead in a class, you do know what's coming next so with the best will in the world there is often an element of anticipation/compensation for tentative or poor leads. I would suggest that most of last night's were poor if I couldn't tell how far I needed to duck and kept bashing my head.

sorry to go OT, maybe I should post "ALL duck moves" on the Moves from Hell thread :rolleyes:

LMC
21st-July-2005, 09:31 AM
Seems to me you were not that impressed with the lesson then ?

The high point was the DJ taking up the dare to play Amarillo during the lesson :na: (I owe him a drink!)

David Bailey
21st-July-2005, 09:45 AM
:mad: It annoys me when the teacher tries to be too funny.

:yeah:
I'm getting more and more convinced there's a secret Ceroc Joke Book...

ALthough I love genuine humour in classes. A few weeks ago at my regular venue, the teacher was doing her round-up speech, and suddenly got handed another announcement from the venue manager; not missing a beat, she said "Oh, hold on, got a note from me Mum here" - classic off-the-cuff humour.

But I could die happy without ever hearing "the other left" type comment again...


But THREE "cheesy" moves in one intermediate class? I got bored with walking round my partner (move 1) and then standing there while he walked around me (move 2) and I hate "duck" moves anyway (move 3 was basket, step forward then duck backwards under lead's arm, bashing head on way because you can't b****y see).
I dunno - cheesy moves are what you make them. Even the shoulder drop thing can probably be done with a certain amount of style.

And what's wrong with walkarounds? They're the best chance you get as a follower to interpret the music - the leader is saying to you "do what you want, take your time, use any steps you want, just walk around me in this direction". So you can do footwork shines, slow walks, wiggles, fast walks - anything you want. I love walkarounds :)

Sparkles
21st-July-2005, 09:47 AM
maybe I should post "ALL duck moves" on the Moves from Hell thread :rolleyes:

:yeah:
A fellow 'ducking moves' hater :clap:
They're such a stupid idea - unless you've practiced them with your partner and know they're coming.
I have quite long hair, and am quite tall, and always find I get tangled up on ducking moves. It's especially difficult on guys with cuffs and wrist watches. I then spend the rest of the dance literally looking like I've been dragged through a hedge backwards with my hair pulling so much I'm in pain - and then the guy looks at you weirdly when you want to stop and sort yourself out before continuing with the dance! :mad:

All ducking moves should be banned in freestyle IMHO.

S. x

robd
21st-July-2005, 09:58 AM
And what's wrong with walkarounds?

Nothing. I like them because as a lead there isn't a lot you can do to **** it up! The fact that the 'man down on one knee' walkaround really embarasses my partner doesn't have any bearing on how regularly I choose to lead it with her... :whistle:

Robert

LMC
21st-July-2005, 10:25 AM
And what's wrong with walkarounds? They're the best chance you get as a follower to interpret the music - the leader is saying to you "do what you want, take your time, use any steps you want, just walk around me in this direction". So you can do footwork shines, slow walks, wiggles, fast walks - anything you want. I love walkarounds :)

I agree that walkarounds are fun. My complaint was "excess" - you can have too much of a good thing. Three moves in one intermediate class. Two were walkarounds. After 25 minutes that just got booooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring.


All ducking moves should be banned in freestyle IMHO.
:yeah: :clap:

And if they are banned in freestyle then there's no point teaching them is there? :whistle:

JoC
21st-July-2005, 11:16 AM
All ducking moves should be banned in freestyle IMHO.
I'm finding these easier to follow with time, now the lead only has to shout 'duck' at me sometimes instead of all the time. :)
But then I'm a shortie so that's maybe an advantage. I find it trickier when a large gentleman partner does the ducking under my arm, which is maybe easy for you taller ladies? ;)

MartinHarper
21st-July-2005, 12:46 PM
What's wrong with walkarounds?

I like 'em in freestyle. They're a little less fun in class, as they have to be done in X beats, and one full revolution, which hinders the playing.

JoC
21st-July-2005, 12:53 PM
And what's wrong with walkarounds? They're the best chance you get as a follower to interpret the music - the leader is saying to you "do what you want, take your time, use any steps you want, just walk around me in this direction". So you can do footwork shines, slow walks, wiggles, fast walks - anything you want
I just hope it's not too annoying when a follower is in the process of trying out things to do during a walkaround cos I'm sure I'm looking like a right prat doing these at the moment :o Having fun trying though :)