Friendships...

[Lory]

The dance scene's great on a certain level -- everyone's happy to see you when you turn up -- but how many people call if you miss a week?



The above statement is from another thread but it reminded me of a recent conversation.....

I was having a heated discussion about 'real' friends verses 'superficial' friends (which a non dancing friend of old, calls all my 'dancing' friends)

She was arguing that I now spend more time with my recently made dance friends, than on the friends I've had for years and was stating how the whole dance scene seems very superficial and can't understand what I get out of it?

She was arguing that to have friends, you have to care about them and to be able to do that, you have to know their backgrounds to fully understand them, she really couldn't get her head round the fact that that's the whole point (and part of the reason I love MJ)..... it's EASY, you go out for a nights dancing, say Hi to 50odd people, exchange a few pleasantries and that's it! :clap:

You don't HAVE to get to know them, if you don't want to.

I don't even know if half the men I dance with are married, if they have kids, what they do for a living, if they live in a mansion or a shoebox and to be honest, I don't care.

Yes, it's all superficial but to an extent, that's what so nice!

I don't come home burdened with other peoples problems, people don't moan to me about not having enough money or the fact they hate their job or that their kids are driving them nuts.

And the fact is, nothing is expected of me, therefore I'm free! :clap:

I'm not letting anyone down, if I don't turn up, if I want to go home early, no ones offended.

When I first started MJ, I really tried to get some of my mates to come, then, very quickly I thought better of it, it's so much easier keeping your MJ friends separate.

When I meet up with friends from MJ, I'm genuinely pleased to see them, I really enjoy the time we spend together, we all have our common bond and I don't feel obliged to either act a certain way or live up to any image. What I mean by that is, I've kind of developed a dance wardrobe, I don't have to think too hard about what to wear, as long as it's comfortable, that's fine, and people don't expect anything different.

Any views on 'superficial' verses 'real'?

[philsmove]

I happened to be near Phuket at the time of the tsunami disaster.

And was gob smacked at the numbers of texts I received form my dance mates, asking if I was OK

[drathzel]

I happened to be near Phuket at the time of the tsunami disaster.

And was gob smacked at the numbers of texts I received form my dance mates, asking if I was OK
:yeah:

When i was in hospital last month the people that showed real concern and the ones that kept me going and offered their support were my dance friends! I didn't see any of my other friends not even a text but the people i have met through dancing were the ones who texted, kept me entertained and danced gently with me till i was back to full strength!

:hug:

[Chicklet]

I would have to say that in the main I agree with what Lory says that it's wonderful to have made the aquaintance of so many people on what I might call a casual basis....must be at least 50 that I would put in this category, we have a nice chat about anything interesting or amusing that we've been up to since the last time we saw each other but there's no analysis or particular depth to the conversations and I don't see that as negative in any way. I think it's great that we all have somewhere to go if we want to where we can leave the "real world" at home and enjoy the night/moment for what it is.

But over the last two years I have also made a few REALLY good problemsandall friends through the dancing. Girls with whom, on the face of it, I have absolutely nothing else in common but meet up with and call fairly regularly. Indeed I spent last night at one's house having bubbly and nibbles and putting the world to right for her birthday...also there was her mother, her neighbour (and her wee son) whom she has known for years, one of her work collegues and a girl she has been friends with since the age of 3, a damn fine time was had by all and I was really flattered to have been asked.

There are also others I see less often, with whom I keep in touch through phone beeps and e-mail and to whom I feel I could turn in times of strife.....
including a couple of blokes I would feel OK about phoning to help with car trouble or some other such blokey thing :blush:

What I'm trying to say is that I think it is possible to develop both from the people you meet, if you choose to do so, but it is GREAT that there's no expectation to do so :grin:

[bigdjiver]

...Yes, it's all superficial but to an extent, that's what so nice!... :yeah: I did not want to post, but the repmeister said I had to spread it ...

There is always the option to develop friendships too. However it does make me sad when personal friendships and animosities start to invade the evening, but fortunately this is rare.

[David Bailey]

Any views on 'superficial' verses 'real'?

:yeah: :yeah: to pretty much all of your comments, with the proviso that it's only natural to "upgrade" a few friends from Dance-friend(TM) to Real-friend(TM) as time goes on. Basically, to me, the test is "Do you go out with this person outside dancing, or do you only know them through dancing".

Nothing wrong with either of course, but trying to artificially define all your DFs as RFs (yay, acronyms :)) would be a bit silly.

[Andy McGregor]

I agree with Lory. We have a nice, shallow, non-demanding relationship with just about everyone we meet at dancing. We might even get to know some people better over time but still the relationship demands nothing of us except the odd dance.

The thing Lory forgot to mention is the nice, giving nature of just about everyone you meet at MJ*. That is what makes people you hardly know behave like friends you've known for years. They do something if they hear you're in hospital, they offer you a bed for the night, they are pleased for you when you pass your driving test/PhD/etc, they come to that party if they say they're coming, they lend you £6 if you arrive at a dance class having forgotten your purse/wallet, etc, etc. As I said above, our relationships with dancers are non-demanding - but as dancers are such givers there really is no need to ask :worthy:

*And now we come to what I see as the sinister downside to this situation. There are a few (thankfully) takers in the giving world of MJ. These parasites know an easy mark when they see one and will keep taking as long as people are prepared to give - then they move on to find a group of nice, giving people to take from. And because there's always new people in MJ they can keep taking and taking and taking :tears: A taker in a world of givers will become very fat and bloated indeed :wink: My advice to the givers of MJ is to never change. Don't let those few takers make you cynical or give any less: to do so would lessen you. Carry on being a giver and lover of life, mix and dance with like-minded others and have a fabulous time :flower:

[El Salsero Gringo]

My advice to the givers of MJ is to never change. Don't let those few takers make you cynical or give any less:Time for a quick polemic on the nature of giving: a true giver gives without the expectation of any return. A true gift is given without conditions. Suppose you give to someone who gives nothing to anyone themselves; you label that person a 'taker' and become discouraged from giving. In that case you were never a giver, and your 'gift' was only a loan.

[Andy McGregor]

Time for a quick polemic on the nature of giving: a true giver gives without the expectation of any return. A true gift is given without conditions. Suppose you give to someone who gives nothing to anyone themselves; you label that person a 'taker' and become discouraged from giving. In that case you were never a giver, and your 'gift' was only a loan.Once again I agree with ESG, many of us take pleasure in giving - that pleasure we gain from the act of giving is all the return we ask. The only condition we place on the giving of that gift is that we enjoy the act of giving - most gifts are given with no expectation of return - to do otherwise would be to engage in a transaction.

Today I took great pleasure in giving out cauliflowers :what: I was at the cash and carry getting supplies for tonights dance King Alfred, Hove, 8pm - Midnight - nibbles provided with dips/sliced cucumber/carrot/cauliflower/etc. They were 30 mins from closing and had trays of 12 cauliflowers that had 'display 'til 2nd April' on the labels. We brought a tray for £1, kept some for ourselves and gave the rest to people we bumped into during the morning. People seemed delighted and the only return I expected/received was a nice, if slightly confused, smile.

We all like to think a gift or our time or whatever is going to be passed on: that our gift goes on giving to others because the receiver is more likely to give to others - there was even a movie made about it. But some people are a black hole to giving. They take gifts but never give any to anybody - often they ask for gifts in one way or another, becoming very good at getting people to offer. Does ESG think these users should be supported? Or is he saying they don't exist?

[El Salsero Gringo]

But some people are a black hole to giving ... Does ESG think these users should be supported? Or is he saying they don't exist?ESG is saying that it ill behooves you even to notice.

[Chickadee]

This is an interesting subject for me right now.

Before I started dancing a few years ago I was with a guy who played football ALL the time and I found myself planning my whole life around his football (hence we split and I started dancing to do something for me! :clap: ). I was dancing up to 5 nights a week and going on all the weekend dances and met some really lovely people through it.
Now I am with my current boyfriend (6 months today - not that I'm counting :whistle: ) who does not dance. There was no way I wanted to put him through the 'plan you life around my dancing' scenario like I did with the 'footballer' so cut it down to 2 nights a week and the odd weekend. I really feel like I have abandoned my 'dance friends' (Lory being one of them - I still love you sweetie and miss you! :hug: ).
I suppose this could be the start of a new thread (there may already be one): How do you balance your passion for dancing with your passion for your non-dancing partner? :confused:

[Gadget]

How do you balance your passion for dancing with your passion for your non-dancing partner? :confused:
Comprimise. I get "let out" once a week and the occasional event - and I look after the kids while she goes to money-spending parties (candles, cookware, jewlery, cosmetics, etc.), local meetings, runs a club for some kids in the area, PTA meetings, etceteras. But then again, my only social contacts are through work or dancing - and the people I work with I see eonugh of during the day. She takes the kids to toddlers and swimming and all the rest of it - she has friends. I have aquantences.

{... and a few friends as well :wink:}

[Andy McGregor]

ESG is saying that it ill behooves you even to notice.:confused:
?

[bigdjiver]

Givers and takers cover the spectrum from saints down through those capitalists who take more than they give down through professional beggars to outright thieves.

Most of us are in transaction mode, where we swap things we value less for things we value more. Since we all place different values on things, most of us can consider ourselves winners.

In MJ I give in minutes and get paid in smiles.

[DianaS]

Hmm are they real or just a four minute wonder?
My real friends see less of me now and my dance friends are becoming more and more real...

-even more worrying my online friends know more about me than my mum does :na:

[Gadget]

-even more worrying my online friends know more about me than my mum does :na:
:D Yea, but we're not real - we only live inside the computer :wink:

[El Salsero Gringo]

Hmm are they real or just a four minute wonder?
Reminds me of the idea of "single-serving friends" from Fight Club. Is that what one one-off dance partners are?

[Dreadful Scathe]

:confused:

Hes saying that if you give a gift and even notice that you dont get any gifts back then you're a complete wanker.

ok maybe not that last bit :)

[Andy McGregor]

Hes saying that if you give a gift and even notice that you dont get any gifts back And what I'm saying is that you give gifts (within MJ this is usually your time or some other intangible item) with no expectation of getting anything in return: otherwise they are not gifts, they are payments made in an exchange or barter situation. What I'm also saying is that you can not fail to notice when someone has a taking/non-giving/selfish nature and that might make you less inclined to give that kind of person the gift of your time in the first place. And the final thing I was saying is that the vast mojority of MJ dancers are very giving but that a few self-centred gits have noticed how nice MJers are an are taking advantage - writing off a car you own and not reimbusing you or selling you a car which is still owned by a loan company ...


then you're a complete wanker.This is probably true. But not because I've noticed a few selfish gits in the world of dance. Some people may fail to notice the nature of others - but I'm not one of them.

[DianaS]

Reminds me of the idea of "single-serving friends" from Fight Club. Is that what one one-off dance partners are?
I love fight club too :flower:
The first rule of fight club is...

[El Salsero Gringo]

Hes saying that if you give a gift and even notice that you dont get any gifts back then you're a complete wanker.Nicely put. I wish I had your talent with words, Mr. Scathe. (The scalpel-like precision, the surgical accuracy...)



This is probably true. But not because I've noticed a few selfish gits in the world of dance. Some people may fail to notice the nature of others - but I'm not one of them.I had noticed that you'd noticed, Andy. Does that make *me* a complete wanker, too?




.

[Sparkles]

This thread seems to be drifting... :rolleyes:

Maybe what we should be thinking about is 'pigeons in pigeon-holes' and the fact that being 'a friend' means different things to different people...?
Someone may be able jump from 'non-friend' to 'friend' pigeon-hole with a simple act of kindness. Someone may jump from 'friend' to 'enemy' pigeon-hole with the reverse. There are many different interactions that can occur, and it depends how you define your 'pigeon-holes' as to how you perceive the interactions you have with other people.

One of the big differences I've found with friends inside and outside dancing is that I see less of the ones outside (maybe once every couple of months) than I do of the ones inside (maybe 4 or 5 times a week). This doesn't make me 'better' or 'worse' friends with either group, it's just that the expectations and interactions are completely different.

Within dancing some people seem to shift in their pigeon-holes very frequently. One week I can see someone 5 times and we not only dance but chat and socialise and become 'friends' and then I might not see them again for a month or more, so maybe things are a little less 'friendly' when we meet again, and then our behaviour at the next meeting will determine which way the relationship is to go. There is nothing wrong with this. Some people I see every time I go dancing, and we dance and then say goodbye, and that's it. There's nothing wrong with this either. With some people I have become very firm friends, and it would take a great deal for those foundations to be broken down - maybe they have gold-lined pigeon-holes :wink:.

Dancing or not, my real friends are my real friends, and those that aren't, aren't. I don't see why whether or not you dance should determine how good a friend you are. Everyone is unique and therefore every 'relationship' is unique, and you know in your own head and heart whether or not you are truely friends with someone or not. :flower:

S. x

[Andy McGregor]

I had noticed that you'd noticed, Andy. Does that make *me* a complete wanker, too?Not sure about the 'complete' bit ....

[Clive Long]

I had noticed that you'd noticed, Andy. Does that make *me* a complete wanker, too?

Not sure about the 'complete' bit ....

... but he is working hard to make up the deficit.

[DianaS]

This thread seems to be drifting... :rolleyes:

One of the big differences I've found with friends inside and outside dancing is that I see less of the ones outside (maybe once every couple of months) than I do of the ones inside (maybe 4 or 5 times a week). This doesn't make me 'better' or 'worse' friends with either group, it's just that the expectations and interactions are completely different.

S. x
:yeah: :cheers:

[David Bailey]

Dancing or not, my real friends are my real friends, and those that aren't, aren't. I don't see why whether or not you dance should determine how good a friend you are. Everyone is unique and therefore every 'relationship' is unique, and you know in your own head and heart whether or not you are truely friends with someone or not. :flower:

:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
I think that's about it for this thread, I certainly couldn't begin to add anything to that. Hope you keep your enthusiasm Sparkles, we need more of you :flower:

[Lynn]

I agree with Lory. We have a nice, shallow, non-demanding relationship with just about everyone we meet at dancing. We might even get to know some people better over time but still the relationship demands nothing of us except the odd dance.

The thing Lory forgot to mention is the nice, giving nature of just about everyone you meet at MJ*. That is what makes people you hardly know behave like friends you've known for years. They do something if they hear you're in hospital, they offer you a bed for the night, they are pleased for you when you pass your driving test/PhD/etc, they come to that party if they say they're coming, they lend you £6 if you arrive at a dance class having forgotten your purse/wallet, etc, etc. As I said above, our relationships with dancers are non-demanding - but as dancers are such givers there really is no need to ask :worthy: :yeah: Its the fact they are 'superficial' in one sense that makes these friendships undemanding and relaxing. They don't expect anything from you but the shared pleasant experience of dancing. And I have noticed that dancers are really nice and have experienced the kindness and generous attitude of both forumites and local dancers. And for me, it does add to the enjoyment of dancing. And leaves time and energy for me to give to other 'RealFriends' who need it, who may or may not be other dancers.

[Lynn]

One of the big differences I've found with friends inside and outside dancing is that I see less of the ones outside (maybe once every couple of months) than I do of the ones inside (maybe 4 or 5 times a week). This doesn't make me 'better' or 'worse' friends with either group, it's just that the expectations and interactions are completely different. I have friends who I maybe don't see for months, but have been friends with for years and it doesn't matter in the slightest when we last saw each other - the friendship is just as strong and the times we do get to meet up are great.

[Sheepman]

Dancing or not, my real friends are my real friends, and those that aren't, aren't. I don't see why whether or not you dance should determine how good a friend you are. Everyone is unique and therefore every 'relationship' is unique, and you know in your own head and heart whether or not you are truly friends with someone or not. :yeah:

then our behaviour at the next meeting will determine which way the relationship is to go. There is nothing wrong with this. I had to think about this a bit more though. It seems rather shallow, that, for example, one less than thrilling meeting with an old friend has a bad affect on the relationship. If you really are friends, I think it takes more than that, usually...

Greg

[Sparkles]

I had to think about this a bit more though. It seems rather shallow, that, for example, one less than thrilling meeting with an old friend has a bad affect on the relationship. If you really are friends, I think it takes more than that, usually...

Greg

It helps if you read the whole of that bit together:


Within dancing some people seem to shift in their pigeon-holes very frequently. One week I can see someone 5 times and we not only dance but chat and socialise and become 'friends' and then I might not see them again for a month or more, so maybe things are a little less 'friendly' when we meet again, and then our behaviour at the next meeting will determine which way the relationship is to go.

I did say 'some people' and didn't specify how well you know them, but inferred that sometimes you see them a lot and things are friendly between you and that you then might not see them for a while; I, personally, find this makes me aware that things might not be the same on the next meeting (although if they are, then all the better because the friendlyness is more likely to grow :nice: ).
I wasn't really meaning it should apply to people who are very firm friends and have been so for a long time, I was talking about the 'getting to know you' stages of things.
Hope that's clearer now? :flower:
S. x

[Sheepman]

It helps if you read the whole of that bit together: OK, so I was out of context again :(
Sorry! :blush:

Greg

[Mary]

I think I am regretting this already having had a couple of glasses of wine. Anway, I agree totally with Lory's initial post. I love the friendship/anonymity conrtadiction of the dance scene. I love having this strange dance relationship where you know someone quite well, and can be quite intuitive about their moods/feelings etc. and not know very much about their 'normal' lives. I also love the feedom it allows in that it's great to see the people you know and love dancing/chatting to but there is no pressure in having to make certain dates/events.

I acknowledge ESG's notion of someone who genuinely gives with no thought of anything in return, and the those few individuals of this world who fit that category are my heroes,but this world is made of human frailties. In my non-dance life I like to think that what goes around comes around (may sound facile I know), but in the early stages of my 'career' people were very helpful and supportive - I cannot pay them back directly(nor would they expect it) but I can do the same for other people I believe in. I will fight the corner for a trainee of mine (shame I can't fight my own corner) because they are not in a position to do so themselves. This is not heroics on my part, but because I believe in the capabilities of that person (as others believed in me in the past). In so doing I know that they will in turn do the same when they are in a position to do so.

M

[Mary]

DS succinct and cuts through the cr*p as usual. Love you're style mate. Now how do I cancel my last post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :what:

M

[baldrick]

I've been chuff to bit twice recently by my friends. Firstly by those who haddent seen me during the "new to ceroc,got to dance all the time" start up phase. Now I've settled a little and other parts of life have come back, the number of people delighted too see me dispaite being rudly ignored for 6-12 months is wonderful.
Equally great is the response too missing a couple of dance nights (sudden rush of blood to head and went cycling, but I 'm alright now). So many expresions of "where you bin, we missed you"

Just shows 4 minute wonders are out there, but lots of people do notice wether or not I'm there. Nice, I like it. Thanks