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johnthehappyguy
25th-March-2005, 05:39 PM
I attempt to put some sort of stylish finish to end each dance, preferably ending on the last beat.

However I have a lot of difficulty trying to predict when the track will end.

Frequently I underestimate, and would finish too soon , so I then pad things out a bit in a rather poor way.

Any ideas or suggestions pleaee as how to deduce when the track is going to end.

thanks,

johnthehappyguy :nice:

David Bailey
25th-March-2005, 08:06 PM
I think it's mainly practice (and listening to a lot of the same music too many times :)). Having said that, there are some tracks that just fade out, or some DJs that fade them out, and it's difficult to finish well on them. Not too many (tracks or DJs), fortunately.

It is tricky getting the timing right, but may I suggest developing:
- An end move that can be drawn-out for a few more beats without straining yourself? For example, a close-in drop - basically, both you and partner body-to-body, face each other, bend your knees and hold, assuming usual UCP "know your partner" caveats...
- "Extension moves" to the end move, which you can use if needed? For example, pulling into a double-handhold sway is a reasonable way to end, you can hold dramatically, then if needed you can draw a circle with your left hands to drag the move out.
- "Quick" and "slow" end moves - I know I sometimes get caught out when a track ends, so it works both ways.

And a good end move requires preparation, of course - getting used to knowing when a track is about to end, then getting into a position / move to allow you to end well.

End moves don't have to be specific separate moves, you can end on a first move or a manspin if you make it dramatic and clear enough, usually by hand "flourish" that This Is The End :)

Hope that helps...

Robin
26th-March-2005, 01:06 AM
Any ideas or suggestions pleaee as how to deduce when the track is going to end.


ermm, the sound stops ? :D

Seriously though, it depends on the style of music, the version being played, dj and probably a million other little things.

From a purist point of view, a well written track should end at the end of its musical pattern or repetition sequence - ie if the rhythm pattern follows 4 bars then the music should finish at the end of the 4th bar.

To be honest with you the best way is to know your music and the various versions that the dj's use at the venues where you dance. A dj may decide to fade out a track for a particular reason too - ie he's late home or something :wink:

Gadget
26th-March-2005, 11:27 PM
I tend to cheat and when I think it's coming to an end go from one pose/dip/slide/... into another untill the music finally stops: I hope that it looks like it's all rolled into one big fanale move - even when it's actually four or five little moves I've just strung together and hopefully timed right.
I mess up an average of about two tracks endings of an evening - by just no finishing as crisp or with as 'big' a finish as I wanted to, or just missing it completley and being stuck posing in the middle of a move :blush:
I strike about the same average of 'spot-on' endings where the dance just flows into a cool hault with the music :waycool:

Practice is the only advice I can give... I think that the end is one of the best areas of musical interpritation to a song, and I would rather come onto the dance floor towards the end of a track a track and dance it's ending than wait untill it's finished to start with a new partner. (in the rare occasion I am off the floor :rolleyes: )

johnthehappyguy
29th-March-2005, 01:44 AM
thanks, robin, David and Gadget


...From a purist point of view, a well written track should end at the end of its musical pattern or repetition sequence - ie if the rhythm pattern follows 4 bars then the music should finish at the end of the 4th bar.....:


I have begun trying to count out the bars from the radio when driving. It does seem to work. I will persevere with this, as it should enhance my appreciation of the music, and hopefully give me a bit of musicality when dancing.

thanks again

johnthehappyguy :nice:

MartinHarper
29th-March-2005, 02:05 AM
Frequently I underestimate, and would finish too soon , so I then pad things out a bit in a rather poor way.

I recommend doing the same thing, but describing it differently.

"Frequently, I do something slightly dramatic to emphasise the last true beat of the song, and then fade the rest of the dance off as the music finishes".

TheTramp
29th-March-2005, 08:46 AM
Any ideas or suggestions pleaee as how to deduce when the track is going to end.
Check with the DJ beforehand how long the track will last, and then keep looking at your watch when the song is playing. If your watch has a stopwatch, this will be doubly useful... :rolleyes:

El Salsero Gringo
29th-March-2005, 09:17 AM
Check with the DJ beforehand how long the track will last, and then keep looking at your watch when the song is playing. If your watch has a stopwatch, this will be doubly useful... :rolleyes:... or give your stopwatch to your partner and ask her to keep an eye on the time for you. Then she can count you down to the end of the track. After all, partner dancing is all about communication...

TheTramp
29th-March-2005, 09:28 AM
... or give your stopwatch to your partner and ask her to keep an eye on the time for you. Then she can count you down to the end of the track. After all, partner dancing is all about communication...
There you go. Another excellent suggestion, straight from the asses mouth :na:

Lou
29th-March-2005, 09:32 AM
Try practicing to St James' Infirmary Blues by Tom Jones & Jools Holland. It's got so many false endings in its climax that you're bound to hit at least one. :nice:

El Salsero Gringo
29th-March-2005, 09:48 AM
There you go. Another excellent suggestion, straight from the asses mouth :na:Actually, I can't take any credit for the idea. I was once wondering why my partners keep checking their watches when dancing with me, so I asked one and she said it was so she could "help me find the end of the dance." Thoughtful, huh?

David Bailey
29th-March-2005, 12:03 PM
Actually, I can't take any credit for the idea. I was once wondering why my partners keep checking their watches when dancing with me, so I asked one and she said it was so she could "help me find the end of the dance." Thoughtful, huh?

:rofl: Strangely enough, one of my partners last night asked if I was timing her - she thought I was looking at my watch, waiting for the dance to end or something. Fortunately, my watch was on my other wrist, so I wasn't! Dunno why I was looking at my wrist though, wasn't aware of it...

Another useful suggestion - get the DJ to do a countdown, much more practical, then everyone can synchronise their watches together!

Daisy Chain
29th-March-2005, 12:11 PM
Another useful suggestion - get the DJ to do a countdown, much more practical, then everyone can synchronise their watches together!

I figured that trying to tell when the track is ending must be humungously difficult and beyond the capabilities of us mere mortals. After all, the compere at the Jivemasters was announcing to the competitive Gods on the dance floor that they had 10 seconds left of the track and most of them still failed to finish with the last beat of the music.

Personally, I wouldn't expect such experts to be spoon fed with end of track timings. Any idea why? As a spectator, I then found myself becoming ten times more critical of their endings.

Daisy

(A Timeless Little Flower)

spindr
29th-March-2005, 12:31 PM
How to tell if the track is ending?

Really easy -- when the DJ starts sprinting off the dance floor back to his decks you have ~2/3 seconds left -- unless of course they've cued up a second track :)

SpinDr.

David Franklin
29th-March-2005, 12:33 PM
Personally, I wouldn't expect such experts to be spoon fed with end of track timings. Any idea why? As a spectator, I then found myself becoming ten times more critical of their endings. Typically, because the tracks weren't actually played to the end, were are faded out after 2 minutes. I think some of the tracks in the final were played through, but (from my recollection of the "normal" mixes), I also think some had been specially edited to be shorter. I'm not sure it's fair to expect anyone to be able to hit the end in a special edit.

Dave

TheTramp
29th-March-2005, 03:06 PM
Typically, because the tracks weren't actually played to the end, were are faded out after 2 minutes. I think some of the tracks in the final were played through, but (from my recollection of the "normal" mixes), I also think some had been specially edited to be shorter. I'm not sure it's fair to expect anyone to be able to hit the end in a special edit.

Dave
Yeah. What he said.

Which also meant that in most times, there wasn't a definite ending, just the track fading out while the music should have been continuing. With no break or difference in the music to actually hit.

But there you go...

johnthehappyguy
29th-March-2005, 05:13 PM
Check with the DJ beforehand how long the track will last, and then keep looking at your watch when the song is playing. If your watch has a stopwatch, this will be doubly useful... :rolleyes:



... or give your stopwatch to your partner and ask her to keep an eye on the time for you. Then she can count you down to the end of the track. After all, partner dancing is all about communication...


Fantastic help guys, thank you sohhhhhhhhhhhhh much !!

Surely a luminous pocket sundial would be even better for timing long slow tracks ?


johnthehorologistguy :nice:

TheTramp
29th-March-2005, 05:15 PM
Fantastic help guys, thank you sohhhhhhhhhhhhh much !!
No worries. That's what we're here for. Anytime you have a problem, just ask us!

Surely a luminous pocket sundial would be even better for long slow tracks ?
See. Now you're getting the hang of it!

Robin
30th-March-2005, 01:59 AM
No worries. That's what we're here for. Anytime you have a problem, just ask us!

See. Now you're getting the hang of it!


Just had a brainwave for you...... you need a techie friend to help though . What you'll need to do is to modify a camera with a self timimg flash on it and link it up to the dj decks - as soon as the decks hit 10 seconds, get the dj to press the shutter button on the camera and you'll then see the little red light start flashing and it'll get quicker the nearer to zero it gets.
:innocent:

Gadget
30th-March-2005, 08:32 AM
yea! then you get a picture of all those frozen poses at the end of the dance as well!

David Bailey
30th-March-2005, 09:25 AM
Failing that, how about just standing still in a finishing pose for the whole track - you'll automatically finish on the right beat then.

Do we have enough for a "Top 10 ways to finish" yet?

Simon r
30th-March-2005, 11:28 AM
hmmmm been thinking about this .....
With most tracks you know the music and have a good idea were the end is. However while still thinking about tyhis last night at Hipsters John played a track i did not know.... I think i was dancing with Sally at the time how did i know were the end was, instinct .... you could here a phrasing through the track which headed up beat just before the end.
Can not really expand on this at the moment because i am still thinking about 'how' but still feel practice to lots of tracks and listening to the music will proberbly give the full explanation.

Daisy Chain
30th-March-2005, 11:57 AM
Typically, because the tracks weren't actually played to the end, were are faded out after 2 minutes. I think some of the tracks in the final were played through, but (from my recollection of the "normal" mixes), I also think some had been specially edited to be shorter. I'm not sure it's fair to expect anyone to be able to hit the end in a special edit.

Dave

Oh I see. Thanks for the explanation. I thought it a tad strange (and quite patronising) that such expert dancers were deemed to need help with the ending in such a prestigious competition.

Daisy

(An Understanding Little flower)