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ducasi
16th-March-2005, 07:59 AM
although what I'd really like to know is why people don't come back.... they disappear so we'll never really know... I guess there must be enough people here who dragged their friends along to MJ classes to maybe answer this question.

There'll also be people who know people who used to dance regularly but now don't.

So, why did your friends not come back?

I'd have made this a poll, but I don't think I can think of all the possible reasons.

curvy lady
16th-March-2005, 09:35 AM
I guess there must be enough people here who dragged their friends along to MJ classes to maybe answer this question.

There'll also be people who know people who used to dance regularly but now don't.

So, why did your friends not come back?

I'd have made this a poll, but I don't think I can think of all the possible reasons.

sleazy men
smoky venue
clicky venue
gossip
unhelpful/unfriendly crowd
intimidated

drathzel
16th-March-2005, 09:56 AM
unable to commit to that day of the week
Didn't really like it
Didn't like not being really good but not willing to put the time in!
Found a girlfriend so didn't need to come back (Ceroc is not a dating agency :mad: )

Sorry just drawing from my own experience!
:hug:

philsmove
16th-March-2005, 10:09 AM
sleazy men
smoky venue
clicky venue
gossip
unhelpful/unfriendly crowd
intimidated

Were do you dance :confused:

None of my friends have ever stopped for any of the above reasons

The most usual reason is they change their status from single to “married”

Or in the case of married friends they have been unable to persuade their partners to come as well

Andy McGregor
16th-March-2005, 10:26 AM
I think there is often a discrepancy between why you friends actually stop dancing and what they tell you. And I think there's a few different types of stopping: there's the type who come once or twice and don't come back: then there's the type who come for a while, learn how to do the dance and then give up; and there's the type who do it for years and then quit.

For what it's worth, here's my list, which I've taken from my actual experience;

Reasons for giving up after the first night or two;

Too hard I'll never get it.
I'm too busy.
Too clicky.
Nobody asked me to dance.
Couldn't shake off pervy bloke.
Made me really dizzy, still felt wobbly the next day.

Reasons for giving up after months/years of dancing;

Had a baby.
Got a non-dancing boy/girlfriend.
Injury.
Got a new job.
Just got out of the habit, will come back one day.
My wife/husband got really jealous about me dancing with all those men/women.

Now that I look at the two lists, people give up early due to things about the dance or the night, people give up later due to things in their lives that are really nothing to do with dancing.

What can we do about it? I think the people who drop out on the first night could be encouraged to stay if we;

Encourage people to be friendly with new people.
Make the dancing as easy as possible for beginners.
Be alert for, detect and ban pervy blokes.
Teach beginner women how to spin/turn without getting dizzy.

This isn't rocket science and most classes do all of the above - but writing this has made me think I should do more of it.

The second group leave due to changes in their life/health. We can't do anything about it and should just accept that times change; not beat ourselves up about a friend giving up our hobby; make a special effort to keep seeing our non-dancing friends and get on with having fun with our friends that still dance :clap:

stewart38
16th-March-2005, 10:42 AM
The second group leave due to changes in their life/health. We can't do anything about it and should just accept that times change; not beat ourselves up about a friend giving up our hobby; make a special effort to keep seeing our non-dancing friends and get on with having fun with our friends that still dance :clap:

A friend of mine (male) use to go to ceroc for 2 to 3 yrs on and off

He was never a good dancer always held the women far too tight (the Hands !) ,very very shy but seem to enjoy it

He got some serious knock backs (dancing) and now hasn’t been for over a year and seems to be drinking him self to death.

Clearly he has 'issues' outside of dancing and Id love him to come back but what can you do

The problem is I don’t want to sit in pub and watch him get drunk on a Saturday night but want to go dancing !. I’ve know him for 23 yrs so its sad really.

Stuart
16th-March-2005, 10:53 AM
A friend of mine came to MJ from Salsa after he started going out with a woman who also did MJ.

However he gave up, partly because he stopped going out with this woman, but also because he claimed that after Salsa he found MJ too limiting.

Gadget
16th-March-2005, 11:20 AM
I have had one friend who quit after years simply because he wasn't enjoying himself any more - not learning anything new, music wasn't to his tastes, had other hobbies that he enjoyed more...

Another is a really shy and non-contact type of person, stopped after a few weeks because he was having trouble remembering moves and dancing in time - the pressure of other people expecting him to lead them when he was convinced he couldn't or if he did, having the lady correct him made him feel even worse. Not fun: not go. Although he is making sounds that he wants to come back.

A couple of others had fun and enjoyed it, but couldn't really justify to themselves spending that ammount of cash regulary: fun for a unique night or two out, but not something they would want to take up.

Another friend just sort of drifted away after a few weeks - poss because there was no-one there she really knew and no-one else would go with her.

David Bailey
16th-March-2005, 11:50 AM
A friend of mine came to MJ from Salsa ... However he gave up, ... he claimed that after Salsa he found MJ too limiting.
:what: That's novel - I'd say it was the other way round, salsa's much more "limited" (or disciplined) than MJ. Neither dance is "better", but salsa music and styles are much less varied than MJ, simply because MJ has so few rules. It sounds like your friend just didn't like it - again, no problem with that, but that comment sounds a bit salsa-elitist.

(Actually, I can't see "Because I didn't like it" in the list, - do people actually say that, or do they come up with excuses, maybe so as to not hurt your feelings? It's been years since I recruited anyone, I can't remember asking this of drop-outs though.)

Yliander
16th-March-2005, 12:23 PM
i've had friends stop dancing for all sorts of reasons

early on it's

I don't get it
conflict of night
don't like not being good at it
just not their thing
work hours

long time dancers seem to stop never to been seen again for the following reasons

get a boy/girlfriend
get married
have sprog or 3


some long time dancers will take a break - ranging from months to years due to lack of motivation - often due to lack of dance partner to work with things on

stewart38
16th-March-2005, 01:22 PM
Another is a really shy and non-contact type of person, stopped after a few weeks because he was having trouble remembering moves and dancing in time - the pressure of other people expecting him to lead them when he was convinced he couldn't or if he did, having the lady correct him made him feel even worse. Not fun: not go.


I wonder if this is a big cause

Most people on here are established dancers

I dance with someone the other night and asked poltely if it was her first time.
She said no apologetically it was her 4th , i assured her she was fine. I did this once before and am not going to do it again, in future if I ask ill just say are you new to ceroc/jive.

Allez-Cat
16th-March-2005, 01:36 PM
I dance with someone the other night and asked poltely if it was her first time. She said no apologetically it was her 4th , i assured her she was fine. I did this once before and am not going to do it again, in future if I ask ill just say are you new to ceroc/jive.
Ooops. No matter how well intentioned the query! You're quite right though, it can so easily be misinterpreted.

The few people I know who have gone did so either because they were getting bored (for which read they'd reached a plateau, and weren't prepared to put in the effort to progress), or what I will refer to as the "nesting" syndrome (new partner, home-building, sprog-making etc). Nothing much one can do about either of those.

spindr
16th-March-2005, 01:55 PM
... in future if I ask ill just say are you new to ceroc/jive.
...and if they aren't!

Maybe something along the lines of "Haven't seen you here before?" might be even safer?

SpinDr.

John S
16th-March-2005, 04:48 PM
I dance with someone the other night and asked poltely if it was her first time.
She said no apologetically it was her 4th , i assured her she was fine. I did this once before and am not going to do it again, in future if I ask ill just say are you new to ceroc/jive.
Much better to ask an "open" question such as "How long have you been dancing?", then no matter what the answer is you can compliment your partner on how good he/she is.

Sparkles
16th-March-2005, 04:53 PM
...and if they aren't!

Maybe something along the lines of "Haven't seen you here before?" might be even safer?

SpinDr.

Or even "Have you danced for a long time, because you're really good?!"
Then when they say "No, it's only my 4th time" and you can look surprised and say "thank you for the lovely dance, hopefully I'll see you again next week?" and then they come back for more dances! :clap:
(of course, you can only say you think they're good if you really think it!).

S. x

Bangers & Mash
16th-March-2005, 05:05 PM
personally, I get bored with dancing with the same people all the time. Now I am in Holland I have returned to dance just twice this year + the Tsunami ball and Scarborough.

That was great because

1. I hadn't danced for a while
2. There was a diversity of people

I think that the events such as Musselburgh, BFG, Southport, Scarborough, etc. are always a breath of fresh air because you meet more people, socialise outside your own small group, and learn new things.

I suspect that if some of the people who had left had actually gone to these venues, they would have stayed.

To this event, maybe local venues should make more of a deal about what is going on elsewhere in the country and actually encourage new beginners to go along as well.

I won't necessarily rush back to local venues, but I will certainly be coming back for the events, and I am already putting money on one side for the cruises. :clap:

To this end, you could count me as one who has stopped dancing - but perhaps better to say stopped dancing at certain venues...

That does not mean, I won't go back. What it means is to go back there now requires a certain amount of effort which I am putting into other things, but if/when I find myself back in Scotland, I'll be back at local haunts and hopefully dancing with loads of new people who have started since I stopped going.

ChrisA
16th-March-2005, 07:37 PM
Maybe something along the lines of "Haven't seen you here before?" might be even safer?

Absolutely.

Even taxiing it's an upbeat-sounding "How many of these have you been to then?"

Then if it's "this is my first time", then I switch into one mode... and if it's "about six months", then I switch into another. :wink:

DavidY
16th-March-2005, 11:57 PM
Much better to ask an "open" question such as "How long have you been dancing?", then no matter what the answer is you can compliment your partner on how good he/she is. :yeah: I use this one a lot. :whistle:

David Bailey
17th-March-2005, 01:42 PM
Much better to ask an "open" question such as "How long have you been dancing?", then no matter what the answer is you can compliment your partner on how good he/she is.
Yes, much better. But even that can be misinterpreted as being patronising, especially if the answer is "ten years" :)
I usually don't ask anymore...

DavidY
17th-March-2005, 02:40 PM
Yes, much better. But even that can be misinterpreted as being patronising, especially if the answer is "ten years" :)
I usually don't ask anymore...Think it depends on how you ask the question - if your tone of voice suggests "How long do I have to dance before I get that good?", then it doesn't have to be patronising IMO.

But mainly I ask people when I'm taxiing - even a "beginner" can often follow much better after 3 or 4 weeks than in their 1st week. However if I don't recognise someone when taxiing, it feels better to ask first rather than end up dancing with a visiting dance goddess when I'm supposed to be dancing with beginners.

drathzel
17th-March-2005, 02:41 PM
:rofl:
...and if they aren't!

Maybe something along the lines of "Haven't seen you here before?" might be even safer?

SpinDr.

next you'll be asking if they come here often :yum: :rofl:

Petal
17th-March-2005, 02:42 PM
One female friend didn't like what she called the "cattle market" style of women standing at the side of the dance floor waiting to take their turn in a class.

[QUOTE=DavidJames]:what: That's novel - I'd say it was the other way round, salsa's much more "limited" (or disciplined) than MJ. Neither dance is "better", but salsa music and styles are much less varied than MJ, simply because MJ has so few rules. It sounds like your friend just didn't like it - again, no problem with that, but that comment sounds a bit salsa-elitist.

I think saying its salsa-elitist is a bit harsh. I started with ceroc(2 years ago) and recently started salsa classes and i find salsa more difficult because of the continual count in the footwork which we don't have in ceroc. Having talked to some of the people who have done salsa for two years but did come along to ceroc recently for a couple of months, they said they find ceroc more difficult. So maybe it's just that the dance style you learned first you are comfortable with, and adding a new type of dance is just a bit difficult, and you have to perservere like you would with any new skill.

The salsa dancers i met did say they enjoyed the ceroc classes because of the way the were treated: welcomed and included in the converation as well as the dancing.

Petal
17th-March-2005, 02:46 PM
I dance with someone the other night and asked poltely if it was her first time.
.

One way around this is to say "you've done this before", and if they have that's fine, if they haven't they take it as a compliment :clap:

David Bailey
17th-March-2005, 03:22 PM
One female friend didn't like what she called the "cattle market" style of women standing at the side of the dance floor waiting to take their turn in a class.
Well, sometimes it's men :)


that comment sounds a bit salsa-elitist.


I think saying its salsa-elitist is a bit harsh. I started with ceroc(2 years ago) and recently started salsa classes and i find salsa more difficult because of the continual count in the footwork which we don't have in ceroc.
Yep, I had the same problem, I think most MJ-to-Salsa dancers find that.
(also ,sorry, didn't mean to be harsh :sad: )


Having talked to some of the people who have done salsa for two years but did come along to ceroc recently for a couple of months, they said they find ceroc more difficult. So maybe it's just that the dance style you learned first you are comfortable with, and adding a new type of dance is just a bit difficult, and you have to perservere like you would with any new skill.
Interesting. I don't know many dancers who've come in "that way" (!), I think salsa dancers in London could be less willing to migrate than elsewhere...


The salsa dancers i met did say they enjoyed the ceroc classes because of the way the were treated: welcomed and included in the converation as well as the dancing.
Definitely - the friendly atmosphere is the main selling point of MJ in general, for me at least.

David Bailey
17th-March-2005, 03:31 PM
Think it depends on how you ask the question - if your tone of voice suggests "How long do I have to dance before I get that good?", then it doesn't have to be patronising IMO.
I had a horrible experience last year at the April Walthamstow Ball on these lines. A woman, who shall remain nameless, asked me, in tones of disgust, half-way through our dance (which she'd requested) "How long have you been doing this?", in a tone of total disbelief, i.e. "haven't you learnt better by now?".

That one nasty comment totally ruined my confidence, and put a downer on the entire evening, despite lovely dances and reassurances from Zebra Woman ( :flower: ) and others.

I'll confess, at the end of the evening, when said woman publicly caused a scene at the end of the evening and left in distress. I felt a sense of justice at work. (extreme example, of course, 99.99% of dancers are lovely people).

So after that, I don't ask :)

Feelingpink
17th-March-2005, 04:14 PM
A lapsed MJ dancer I spoke to this week said he stopped because he used to pull his partners' arms too hard.

MartinHarper
17th-March-2005, 11:48 PM
Or even "Have you danced for a long time, because you're really good?!"
Then when they say "No, it's only my 4th time" and you can look surprised and say "thank you for the lovely dance, hopefully I'll see you again next week?" and then they come back for more dances! :clap:
(of course, you can only say you think they're good if you really think it!).

See, now I'm confused.

On the one hand, you'e suggesting that I lie to beginners, and act like I think they've been dancing for years and are really good, when it's blatantly obvious that they've been dancing for only a few weeks.
On the other hand, you're suggesting that I couldn't possibly tell somone I think they're good unless I honestly think that.
So... which is it?

ChrisA
18th-March-2005, 12:38 AM
See, now I'm confused.

On the one hand, you'e suggesting that I lie to beginners, and act like I think they've been dancing for years and are really good, when it's blatantly obvious that they've been dancing for only a few weeks.

No she isn't.

So who is he, S???

:wink: