Colds, flue, coughs & sniffles: spread or contain?

[Gadget]

"there seems to be a lot of it going around"

Is it selfish to go dancing with a cold? If you've got it that badly, then you wouldn't want to go dancing anyway - so by virtue of the fact you want to go (and are physically able to dance), does that mean you are getting better; it's not that bad.
Or are you just being selfish and putting every partner you come in contact with at risk of catching the Lurgy from you?

Is there any justification in "well, as long as I don't cough at them or breathe in their face"? or "I wash my hands after blowing my nose/coughing/sneezing into them"? :sick:

There will be other nights, does it really hurt that much to skip one night because you are not well? :tears:


(I know there has been a similar thread somewhere, but I can't be bothered finding it :whistle: )

[Piglet]

I know what you mean - its a real tricky one!

Although there's one guy I've had no qualms about saying "keep it to yourself" to because he's not my favourite (well I guess someone has to be in that position... :whistle: )

But so long as they're not streaming from their nose or spluttering all over the place (and I love dancing with them) then I'd make an exception.

Although I haven't gone in the past because I had some form of lurgy and felt I wouldn't have appreciated it if I had caught it from someone at ceroc...

Best advice really - treat others as you would treat yourself.

:flower:

[Daisy Chain]

Is it selfish to go dancing with a cold?

There will be other nights, does it really hurt that much to skip one night because you are not well? :tears:



:yeah: I have enough of a problem avoiding germs in my open plan office without having to contend with evening germs too.

Personally, I wouldn't dream of going dancing if I think I'm infectious. :innocent:

Also, if You do come dancing with something infectious but not immediately obvious, (eg something gastrointestinal) there is no need to tell me about it. I do not want to spend the next few days worrying about whether I'm going to see any diced carrots.

Daisy

(A Hypochondriacal Little Flower)

[MartinHarper]

I know there has been a similar thread somewhere.

Indeed there has: "Good moaning (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3933)"

[MartinHarper]

A person is contagious from the day before the symptoms of the cold appear until one to three days after they begin to feel better.

http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/en.asp?TopicID=685&AreaID=4541&LinkID=3616

[John S]

Is it selfish to go dancing with a cold?
YES


Is there any justification in "well, as long as I don't cough at them or breathe in their face"? or "I wash my hands after blowing my nose/coughing/sneezing into them"? :sick:
NO


There will be other nights, does it really hurt that much to skip one night because you are not well?
NO

[Lynn]

Yes - simple answer is - stay home! And this should be encouraged by the venue/event organiser. If one person stays home because of a cold, that person loses a nights dancing and the venue loses one persons entry fee. If they go dancing - they might infect 10 more people - who then each lose a night's dancing (or more) and the venue loses more money...

Since a cold is easily spread through hand to hand contact - and dancing is all hand to hand contact, you are very likely to pass it on to someone even if you aren't going round sneezing.

[MartinHarper]

If isolation was effective at controlling the spread of mild colds, it would be recommended by GPs, pharmacists, and the government. It isn't, so it isn't.


Does it really hurt that much to skip one night because you are not well?

The infectious period of the cold virus is longer than one night, so for a mild cold I would need to skip about a week, if I was really serious about avoiding infecting anyone else.

[Andy McGregor]

In Japan they wear surgical masks when they have a cold. The objective to to reduce the spread of colds. And I think this is probably effective as the virus is usually spread by suspended droplets produced by coughing and sneezing.

A friend of mine is working in Japan and explained this to me. His original premise was that the Japanese wore the masks for the selfish reason of reducing the risk of them contracting colds. But the opposite is true, they wear the masks when they have cold to reduce the risk of giving it to someone else.

Maybe we should start wearing the masks if we want to dance when we have a cold. Speaking personally, I rarely have colds, don't have the time for them.

My friend gave me some of the masks for Christmas - they have definitely improved my looks :wink:

[ChrisA]

If isolation was effective at controlling the spread of mild colds, it would be recommended by GPs, pharmacists, and the government. It isn't, so it isn't.

This is another example of Martin's, shall we say, 'unusual' approach to logic.

Maybe there might be other reasons for GPs, pharmacists, and the government not recommending isolation, rather than just its effectiveness, or lack thereof.

Like:

- unenforceability
- impracticality
- unpopularity
- perceived unimportance of the problem
- a huge amount of business in cold remedies

... and probably many others

But no, I'm sure he's right, and I'd still get colds even if I never came into contact with people that had them.

:whistle:

I wonder... if everyone in the world was confined to their home for, say, a fortnight, would the common cold die out?

Just a thought for a Wednesday morning :wink:

[Zebra Woman]

Yes - simple answer is - stay home! And this should be encouraged by the venue/event organiser. If one person stays home because of a cold, that person loses a nights dancing and the venue loses one persons entry fee. If they go dancing - they might infect 10 more people - who then each lose a night's dancing (or more) and the venue loses more money...


Yeah , stay home is the best plan. :flower:

Don't forget the 10 infected people will find it difficult not to infect their work colleagues too and their own families of course. Babies would be up in the night and not feeding properly, children could get not just the cold but tonsillitis and ear infections that tend to come with it, plus they would infect their classmates. Worst of all, elderly relatives could end up ill with bronchitis etc. for many weeks afterwards.

I'm addicted to dancing, but not that addicted :sick:

[MartinHarper]

This is another example of Martin's, shall we say, 'unusual' approach to logic.

It's an evidential argument, not a logical argument.

I suppose "effective" was ambiguous - I meant it in the sense of Producing a strong impression or response (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=effective). No doubt it has some effect, but that effect isn't worth it from a medical perspective.


I'm sure he's right, and I'd still get colds even if I never came into contact with people that had them.

Indeed you would. Firstly, the cold viruses can remain infective even if they are outside the body for a few hours. Secondly, someone can have the cold virus (and be infectious) and not have a cold. ref:Canadian Centre for Occupational Health & Safety (http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/diseases/common_cold.html)

[TheTramp]

Yeah , stay home is the best plan. :flower:

Don't forget the 10 infected people will find it difficult not to infect their work colleagues too and their own families of course. Babies would be up in the night and not feeding properly, children could get not just the cold but tonsillitis and ear infections that tend to come with it, plus they would infect their classmates. Worst of all, elderly relatives could end up ill with bronchitis etc. for many weeks afterwards.
It could well be the end of civilisation as we know it.... :na:

Could have employed you when I was working in London ZW. Never quite did get the hang of worst case scenario analysis :hug:

[Sheepman]

In Japan they wear surgical masks when they have a cold. The objective to to reduce the spread of colds. That may be the case, but I suspect it is also to do withthe cultural aspect that it is extremely rude to blow your nose in Japan, and some other Eastern societies, hence the huge popularity of drugs like Contac there, (before it was banned). Which leads me to a question, are those masks highly absorbent? :sick: :whistle:

I think it is bad form to go dancing when you're suffering from a cold, and I would prefer not to, but how often is life quite as black and white as that?


NHS Direct
A person is contagious from the day before the symptoms of the cold appear until one to three days after they begin to feel better. If this is true, then I've almost certainly been to a dance before I had any symptoms, and have unknowingly spread the bug around. If I'm not infectious just one day after I begin to feel better, then it's fine to go dancing pretty much as soon as you feel up to it. The trouble is, I often feel better, then a couple of days later, worse again.

And there are cases like weekenders/competitions, booked months in advance, OK, you can keep yourself to yourself, but people aren't too impressed if you refuse dances for a whole weekend.

And if you work for a drugs company, isn't policy to go out and infect as many people as possible? :wink: :devil:

Greg

[MartinHarper]

deleted

[Simon r]

Actually working for one of the biggest antibiotic manufacturers in northern europe, got to say never been ill.....
I think my daily intake of anti biotic dust does help though. :sick:

[ChrisA]

Ok, I'm in a super-anal mood today (and no comment from you, CJ ;)), so I'll play...



...and I'd still get colds even if I never came into contact with people that had them.



Indeed you would. Firstly, the cold viruses can remain infective even if they are outside the body for a few hours. Secondly, someone can have the cold virus (and be infectious) and not have a cold. ref:Canadian Centre for Occupational Health & Safety (http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/diseases/common_cold.html)

You quote this, but you don't seem to have read the reference.

It does say "Cold viruses can remain infective even if they are outside the body for a few hours.", but it also says:

"Colds are really not very contagious, compared to other infectious diseases. Close personal and prolonged contact is necessary for the cold viruses to spread. The viruses must get into the nose where they can infect the nasal membranes. The virus must attach to nasal cells after which the viruses can multiply."

So if I sit in my house, on my own, it really isn't very likely that the cold virus particles sneezed out by someone in the street are going to find their way through my letter box, up the stairs and into my study in a high enough concentration to cause infection. Obviously I might touch a door handle that had someone's cold viruses all over, of course. But if I don't let them in, or shove my fingers up my nose, that's unlikely :D

And I don't think you can justify the assertion that you can be asymptomatic and still be infectious from this article, either. (I'd be interested to know whether they've done any real science to justify that NHS Direct assertion that you are contagious (which means infectious by touch, incidentally, not by inhalation of aerosol) from a day before the symptoms appear. I suppose it's possible that there are enough viruses being exuded from the body a little before the big drip starts, but I bet it's a relatively rare source of actual infection.)

It's probably not until you're coughing, sneezing and dripping that virus particles are getting outside your body in sufficient quantities to cause infection. Merely having the viruses inside (which is possible along with being asymptomatic) is not enough to cause infection - they have to be getting outside as well, either as an aerosol or as a coating on something that the infectee touches.


It's an evidential argument, not a logical argument.

Piffle. (I won't use words like ********, since Franck took me outside last time I did that :what:.)

They don't recommend that no one has sex, either, yet that would be completely effective in preventing both unwanted pregnancies and 100% of STIs.


There. That was a nice break from a big chunk of even more boring work that I'm in the middle of :D

[Chef]

Actually working for one of the biggest antibiotic manufacturers in northern europe, got to say never been ill.....
I think my daily intake of anti biotic dust does help though. :sick:

Not sure that working with antibiotics will have had anything to do with your wonderful good health. Colds, influenza call it what you will, are caused by viruses. Antibiotics (anti bacterials) are utterly ineffective against colds.

Unless you and I work for the same company, I work for the second largest producer of antibiotics.

Whatever the reason for it, do enjoy your good health. Having a cold is good for nothing and gets in the way of your dancing (so it must be bad).

Happy Dancing

[MartinHarper]

If I sit in my house, on my own...

Earlier you seemed to be talking about avoiding colds by avoiding contact with people with colds. I explained that that would be insufficient, though it might reduce the odds.

Now you seem to be talking about becoming a hermit - a somewhat more extreme step. I am happy to agree with you that this would probably be sufficient.


I don't think you can justify the assertion that you can be asymptomatic and still be infectious from this article.

Well caught. The article only notes that one can be asymptomatic and still be carrying the cold virus, and doesn't say whether one can be asymptomatic and still be infectious. Thanks for clearing me up on this.


It's probably not until you're coughing, sneezing and dripping that virus particles are getting outside your body in sufficient quantities to cause infection.

I hear what your saying, and it sounds plausible enough. In the end I'd prefer to go to the NHS for medical advice, and go to this forum for dancing advice, rather than the other way round. :)