Of course I'm an expert at this move .....

[Gus]

Following on from the Drops and Lifts thread ... with so many people interested or actively up for these moves, just wondered how people learnt them.

Just for fun, log all the categories that apply.:D

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Gus
Following on from the Drops and Lifts thread ... with so many people interested or actively up for these moves, just wondered how people learnt them.Can you add another option for 'other qualified teacher'? We did all our lifts with a Sports Acrobatics coach. (Sports Acro is pairs gymnastics.)

David

[Gus]

Originally posted by DavidB
Can you add another option for 'other qualified teacher'? We did all our lifts with a Sports Acrobatics coach. (Sports Acro is pairs gymnastics.)

David
urrghh good one ..... thought I'd sort of include that under 'other specialist' course? Is that good enough?

Franck is currently fixing the other errors I made putting the poll together.

[LilyB]

I noticed 23.53% (4 voters) say they were taught by a qualified teacher. Do they mean a teacher qualified in teaching drops/aerials or do they mean a qualified dance teacher who happens to teach drops/aerials?

If the former, I applaud their efforts in seeking out someone who clearly knows the subject matter. However, aside from Andy & Rena (Jump n Jive), I am not aware of anyone else within UK dancing circles who are specialists in this field. I would advise anyone hoping to take lessons from a teacher who claims to be "qualified" to teach drops/aerials to check very carefully their credentials/qualifications. Or, if they really want to play it safe, they can't do better than a sports acrobatics coach. Another (and very expensive!) option is to go to the USA for coaching with the top theatre-arts instructors there (the likes of David Howland & Vivienne Ramsey, Pierre Dulaine, Rufus Dustin). They should be VERY CAREFUL about going to a dance teacher who holds himself/herself out to be "qualified" to teach drops/aerials purely by the fact that he/she happens to teach a few such moves occasionally.

People have to remember that aerials are dangerous moves and SHOULD NOT BE TAUGHT by unqualified people, whether they be dance teachers or not. I realise that "qualified" may mean different things to different people, but hey, if it is your safety you are concerned about, you need to do your homework!

LilyB

[Gus]

Originally posted by LilyB

If the former, I applaud their efforts in seeking out someone who clearly knows the subject matter. However, aside from Andy & Rena (Jump n Jive), I am not aware of anyone else within UK dancing circles who are specialists in this field. LilyB

Good point well made. The reason I put Jump'n'Jive rather than just Andy and Rena is that Nigel and Nina did some 'baby lifts' at Beach Boogie some years ago and,ot surpriingly, taught them very well.

The only other couple I've seen teach aerials in the UK were Simon and Marialiene (JiveBug). again I felt this was taught very well but unfortunately I don't believe they are teaching together now.

There are a number of other teachers on the circuit doing aerials but even if they can do aerials well themselves, there is a huge gap between being able to do something and be able to teach something. Also, the question of insurance comes into it, if you have anb accident are the teachers adequalty covered.

So ... to echo Lily's comments, if you want to learn aerials go to Jump'n'Jive (they run regular courses and are at most of the major events). If you want to put yourself, your partner and evryone round you at risk, go somewhere else .... personal opinion of course :wink:

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Gus
~snip~So ... to echo Lily's comments, if you want to learn aerials go to Jump'n'Jive (they run regular courses and are at most of the major events). If you want to put yourself, your partner and evryone round you at risk, go somewhere else .... personal opinion of course :wink:
...so Ceroc teachers don't meet your standards of "qualified" then? Interesting point of view on a Ceroc forum. :innocent:

[Gus]

Originally posted by Gadget

...so Ceroc teachers don't meet your standards of "qualified" then? Interesting point of view on a Ceroc forum. :innocent:

CTA training on aerials and most major drops is based on teaching Ceroc teachers to do the moves themselves, not to teach (red moves)...... and (IMHO) having done that training, I would not even contemplate trying to teach 95% of those aerials.

To quote my other favourite philosopher;
"A mans gotta know his limitations" ... Dirty Harry:grin:

[Franck]

Originally posted by LilyB
People have to remember that aerials are dangerous moves and SHOULD NOT BE TAUGHT by unqualified people, whether they be dance teachers or not. I realise that "qualified" may mean different things to different people, but hey, if it is your safety you are concerned about, you need to do your homework!I completely agree with you Lily :nice:

There are different definitions of qualified, and indeed there are different types of "aerial moves".

At Ceroc, our aim is first of all, not to teach dangerous moves. The only moves we learnt in the Advanced courses that we are allowed to teach are coded Orange and should always be taught with an alternative, we spend time discussing the safety implications / warnings etc... Our focus is on fun and safety, as discussed in an another thread.
Ceroc teachers are qualified to offer you safety advice, and indeed some Ceroc teachers are specialists in Dips / Drops and teach regular workshops across the UK. Indeed Gus, is offering a Dips / Drops workshop next week :wink:

It is very difficult to know in advance the qualifications of who is taking the class, and unfortunately, most people will rely on word of mouth, or worse, just go, because they like the sound of the workshop, regardless of who is teaching it!

If by aerial moves you mean ones where the lady is literally flying, then I would not want to see any of those moves anywhere near any of my classes anyway (well trained or not!)

Franck.

[Gus]

Originally posted by Franck

At Ceroc, our aim is first of all, not to teach dangerous moves. The only moves we learnt in the Advanced courses that we are allowed to teach are coded Orange and should always be taught with an alternative, we spend time discussing the safety implications / warnings etc... Ceroc teachers are qualified to offer you safety advice, and indeed some Ceroc teachers are specialists in Dips / Drops and teach regular workshops across the UK

Just re-read my previous ppost re CTA teachers and would apologise if it was mis-leasing. As you quite rightly say, CTA teachers ARE trained to teach orange moves 'sensible' drops and minor airsteps , e.g. hip-hop. What I was really refering to was moves like the drunken sailor, backbreakers, death drops and wurlitzer drops ... these are all red moves.



If by aerial moves you mean ones where the lady is literally flying, then I would not want to see any of those moves anywhere near any of my classes anyway (well trained or not!)
Franck.

That message seems to be the party line across most jive organisations ... the problem seems to be (as mentioned in previous threads) one of enforcement.

[LilyB]

Originally posted by Franck
It is very difficult to know in advance the qualifications of who is taking the class, and unfortunately, most people will rely on word of mouth, or worse, just go, because they like the sound of the workshop, regardless of who is teaching it!
Franck. Prime example of this was at Camber Sands last weekend. We observed a class on "Aerial steps" and were absolutely appalled at a.) what was being taught and b.) how it was being taught. The teacher was not someone I recognise as a specialist in this field (never mind qualified), yet there must have been at least 150 people there wanting to do his class! This seems, rather sadly, to bear out what Franck has just said, ie. that people will go to a class simply because they like the sound of it, regardless of who is teaching it. It really makes me wonder - is it because these people do not care one iota about their own or anyone else's safety, or are they so ignorant/naive that they don't realise the risks involved in learning/doing aerials???!!!:reallymad :confused: :sick:

I don't have a problem with people wanting to learn moves which look impressive (because of the element of danger) - indeed, that's how David and I started - but these people ought to put a little bit more effort into checking out the qualifications and/or credentials of the teacher before taking his/her class. The fact that people do not do this, is what allows some teachers to get away with teaching potentially dangerous moves with little regard to safety.

LilyB

PS - Sorry for always banging on about safety in aerials. It's my pet hate. When you are small like I am, and have been seen performing the odd aerials (but only in cabaret!), a lot of men consider you fair game for throwing around in social dancing!!!:reallymad :reallymad :reallymad

[Gus]

Originally posted by LilyB
The teacher was not someone I recognise as a specialist in this field (never mind qualified), yet there must have been at least 150 people there wanting to do his class


150 doing an aerials workshop ...... I'd be scared to do a drops class with more than 30!!:tears:

Doesn't common sense say this is a little on the dangerous side or am I just being a timid scardy cat?

[Gadget]

Originally posted by LilyB
~snip~ but these people ought to put a little bit more effort into checking out the qualifications and/or credentials of the teacher before taking his/her class.
How and where ?
What actions and/or resources do you recommend using to actually check out a class or more precisley a teacher?

[LilyB]

Originally posted by Gadget

How and where ?
What actions and/or resources do you recommend using to actually check out a class or more precisley a teacher? Ask. Ask the teacher before the class, ask the organiser of the workshop/class, ask anyone - it's better than asking no one! The questions you may want to ask are (not exhaustive):- 1) Does the teacher have any recognised/formal qualifications eg. from BAGA, ISTD, UKA etc., 2) Has he/she won any titles in that particular style ie. aerials/airsteps, acrobatics, adagio, theatre-arts etc., 3) Is he/she a recognised exponent/performer in that style, 4) How many years' experience does he/she have in teaching such moves, 5) Has he/she been recommended by someone who has had lessons from them and can vouch for their ability to teach, 6) Will there be sufficient safety precautions available at the class eg. space, spotters, crash-mats.

These are just SOME of the questions I would recommend people ask if they want to do an aerials/airsteps class AND are concerned for their own, their partner's and their fellow dancers' safety. Clearly not everyone will want to do that, but as Gadget has asked me to elaborate, I hope I have done so.

LilyB

[Gus]

I'm curious ... outside the 'professional' teachers that Dave and Lily go to ... I wasn't aware of any Aerials experts other than Jump'n'Jive (i.e. Andy and Rena) ... yet we have 5 votes for qualified teachers and 2 or 3 for specialist courses.

Would anyone like to confirm who/where these courses are?

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Gus
Would anyone like to confirm who/where these courses are? I know of one couple who went to Camberley Gymnastics Club, and someone else who goes to Hendon Gymnastics club. And there are several people in London who have gone to Circus Space, where they teach some lifts.

But I am guessing most people went to Andy & Rena - it's just they didn't realise they are Jump'n'Jive.

David

[Dreadful Scathe]

Ive been to aerials workshops taught by Chalky White and Elsie in Edinburgh - and they were great :). I went because I knew them both personally and knew how good they were.

Anyway - I picked every single box as they all apply (maybe i lied about the gifted one though) :) you did say it was drops and aerials remeber not just aerials!

[Bill]

and picking up from the other thread on the party on saturday.................. what about a class on dance floor etiquette and awareness - for thsoe idiots who think doing arials and drops - regardless of the safety of their partner is good fun :reallymad :reallymad :eek:

I really can't belive how utterly stupid some men can be. bad enough for another man but are they aware of how the woman might be feeling or the potential danger she might be in as she falls to the ground with feet, arms and legs flying about !

Maybe time to intoduce bouncers at the side of the floor with large baseball bats ;) :rolleyes:

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Bill

Maybe time to intoduce bouncers at the side of the floor with large baseball bats ;) :rolleyes:

Wouldnt work , no room for them to swing. I suggest tazers :)

[TheTramp]

Cattle prods?? :rolleyes:

Steve

[Fran]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe


Wouldnt work , no room for them to swing. I suggest tazers :)

what is a tazer???????? :confused: :nice:

[Fran]

Originally posted by TheTramp
Cattle prods?? :rolleyes:

Steve

Now thats quite good, the Venue manager can operate it from their desk - a quick zapp and the offending culpit is off!!!!! and also possiably branded for life.

though seriously, as a venue manager I would not have a problem speaking to someone if they were causing a concern over the issue of saftey.

fran:nice:

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Fran
what is a tazer???????? :confused: :nice:
A tazer is basically a cattle prod without the long stick; two electrodes in a hand held device (similar in size to a mobile phone) that pass a current {should that be 'charge'?} through them. Some variations actually propel the electrodes, which are attached by wires to the device.
A form of non-lethal deterrent that is becoming more popular in America for self-defense.

How about wiring up the floor so that specific areas could be zapped at the flick of a switch? :devil:... hang on - arials - not touching the floor - Doh!

[TheTramp]

Yeah. But it's only the lady not touching the floor (usually). The guy is still there.

So that'd work!!

Steve :devil:

[Tiggerbabe]

Please make sure you sort them both out though. I know the man is leading but if we're talking serious arials then he can only do them with a lady who knows what she is supposed to do and if there is no room then SHE shouldn't play along either. The couple I saw doing arials on Saturday had the lady wrapped around the man's waist (before she headed for the floor) and she didn't get there by magic :reallymad

[TheTramp]

Hmmm.....

You call that an AERIEL in Scotland??

We have a different name for it here down south!! :wink:

Steve

[Tiggerbabe]

:sorry :sorry :sorry

Now see what you've done!

[TheTramp]

Ah, but Sheena. You blush so beautifully!!!

:wink:

Steve

[Tiggerbabe]

Why thankyou kind sir!

However, I will choose my words more carefully next time.........:really:

[Fran]

Originally posted by Gadget

A tazer is basically a cattle prod without the long stick

thankyou very much for the explaination gadget:nice: :nice:

I learn something everyday no one can say that the forum is not educational!

fran:nice:

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Fran
I learn something everyday no one can say that the forum is not educational!
Glad I could help - my head is full of useless information like that, unfortunatly it is so useless that it's not even any good for pub quizes! :sick:

[Bill]

Did anyone else notice Lorna's very subtle reminder about safety and drops/dips etc last night in Aberdeen. :wink:

Very subtle Lorna................ and I think everyone was listening as well :D :rolleyes: . The only danger on the floor was me I think ! :sick: :tears: Managed to almost smack a woman on the face and step on her foot....during one song. And it was her first time back for ages................sorry Sheila :sorry

[TheTramp]

Did anyone else notice Lorna's very subtle reminder about safety and drops/dips etc last night in Aberdeen.I take it that it wasn't really that subtle then Bill?!?

Steve

[Gadget]

Originally posted by TheTramp
I take it that it wasn't really that subtle then Bill?!?
I think it ended in a warning that you would get a warning and then warning that if the warnings were not held to, that a boot would be applied to the rear - never to return. (the boot or the offender :what:)
Does that sound about right ?

[TheTramp]

I was right then. Not too subtle!! So. Do you think that they got the message??

Steve