View Full Version : Double Hands
Zuhal
29th-January-2005, 01:24 PM
Ok I can reverse a car or any vehicle with confidence using either mirrors or by looking over my shoulder. I can not however get my brain around reversing an articulated vehicle or a trailer.
Double handed moves quite often have a moment when four hands are crossed. While I can sort out the correct pressure to institute a lead when I am facing my partner I become disorientated when it is all happening behind me and either have to drop the move or it goes ok by chance.
Any ideas apart from practice?
Actually this is a strictly a Salsa problem for me where you often provide a directional hand signal prior to the move and then perform the move. The principle of the lead is the same[/SIZE].
Before anyone replies; please could you bear in mind that I fall into the category of someone who reads the forum but does not often contribute because of fear. Not everyone has an in depth knowledge or is a known face or understands all the lengthy politics behind some of the posts. :)
Zuhal
Clive Long
29th-January-2005, 01:33 PM
Before anyone replies; please could you bear in mind that I fall into the category of someone who reads the forum but does not often contribute because of fear. Not everyone has an in depth knowledge or is a known face or understands all the lengthy politics behind some of the posts. :)
Zuhal
Zuhal,
Post away. You questions and views are as valid as anyone else who waxes at length on this forum. Ignore the politics and personal animosities and deliberate mischief-making. If anything gets outta hand I have suggested people PM the moderator and move the mud-slinging "outside" where the protagonists can shout at each other to their hearts content coz' no-one else will be listening.
Flame away.
Now on topic, Zuhal, all I can suggest is to find a venue where the teacher REALLY breaks down such moves - or go to work-shops - or set up your own work-shop on say a Saturday with people in your area who want to cover a particular topic say, double-handed moves, drops, styling and ask around the local teachers - I'm sure they would be flattered to be asked.
That's my suggestion.
Clive
MartinHarper
29th-January-2005, 01:42 PM
Hmm.
You might find it useful to practice certain one-handed moves that you normally do face-to-face, so that you instead do them behind your back. For example, take a "Lady Spin", but lead it while looking away from your partner. You could also try moves like the Confident hatchback (http://www.afterfive.co.uk/guide/latest/html/confident_hatchback.html) or Archie Spin (http://www.afterfive.co.uk/guide/latest/html/archie_spin.html). This might get you more used to leading one-handed things behind your back, so you can then go on to double-handed stuff with more confidence.
Graham
29th-January-2005, 02:23 PM
I have to admit I have something of the same problem, although I have found that I have been getting better at it recently. I think it basically is to do with practice, and probably one needs to get to the level of being able to do it without thinking when the hands are in front of you to be able to get to the stage where you have enough brain power left over to be able to sort out what's behind you. I think the teaching makes a big difference though - you need to break it down into the discrete parts of left hand down, right hand up, etc and then make it flow - if you try and visualise the whole move straight away you will confuse yourself. Hope this helps, or at least provides some encouragement that you'll get better!
spindr
29th-January-2005, 03:12 PM
Firstly, try to understand how your partner should be moving -- e.g. which way they should be rotating, etc.
Then, I think that for moves out of sight (single / double handed) the best idea is to try and get your "muscle memory" working -- by walking through the move slowly and making sure that you and your partner's arms are all moving the correct way (e.g. it's really hard to learn some moves until your partner adjusts so that they can rotate, etc. to help the move).
Once you understand what the particular piece of arm origami involves, then you can start to lead it slowly -- rather than walking it through slowly. And then just concentrate on building up speed, etc.
Usual tips apply: make sure that you the handholds can rotate easily - that you can lead yourself / your partner easily into or out of hammerlocks - and be ready to let go if there is any suggestion that there is a problem.
SpinDr.
Zuhal
30th-January-2005, 10:06 PM
:clap:
Great Tips. Thanks Fellas
Zuhal
Gadget
31st-January-2005, 03:38 AM
...Then try leading it with your eyes closed :D (or :cool: )
Seriously - a lot of the confusion comes from seeing that the right hand is on the left; start the movement with eyes closed and see if it makes any difference.
Once you can visualise where the lady should be and where you should be/move to lead her there, and lead her slowly, leading with eyes closed will hone your skills.
{It's shock-therapy - lead the lady into someone and they slap you! :what:}
drathzel
2nd-February-2005, 01:59 PM
...Then try leading it with your eyes closed :D (or :cool: )
Seriously - a lot of the confusion comes from seeing that the right hand is on the left; start the movement with eyes closed and see if it makes any difference.
Once you can visualise where the lady should be and where you should be/move to lead her there, and lead her slowly, leading with eyes closed will hone your skills.
{It's shock-therapy - lead the lady into someone and they slap you! :what:}
This concept was suguested at the beginners workshop on Sunday in Dundee only it was the women to follow closing their eyes, if didn't get to try this as i was being a man, however its a very good idea, it establishes trust and also the man is a lot more careful with the women. (now if only we could apply some of our dance techniques to real life!)
:hug:
El Salsero Gringo
2nd-February-2005, 07:42 PM
Ok I can reverse a car or any vehicle with confidence using either mirrors or by looking over my shoulder. I can not however get my brain around reversing an articulated vehicle or a trailer.
Apart from practice? But that's the one thing you need most!
Reversing even a regular vehicle is a motor skill which takes considerable learning. I remember. Reversing a trailer or artic is exactly the same - if you do as much of that as you do reversing a regular car it will no longer be a problem.
Similarly, leading behind your back, two hands, one hand, whatever isn't - in my opinion - any different. I think these are all skill learnt through lots, and lots of repetition. Keep working on it, again and again, and again, until it goes right. Ask friendly dancers to allow you to practice the move slowly, fast, whatever at the side of the dance floor, whether with the music or not. Better if she doesn't try to help you through it but just provides a 'body' for you to work on. You're going to want to be able to lead the move on someone whose only clue to where to go comes through your hands, arms, frame - so she has to concentrate on following naturally whatever it is you're doing rather than stepping through the move she knows.
Then practice it again the next week. Then the week after. And in between, if you can find someone to help. If not, go through it in your head. Just don't, ever, give up and think it's beyond you. If your body can get the hang of even balancing on two legs (let alone walking) you can do the double hands thing behind your back.
Trust me - you *will* get there. Just keep at it.
Zuhal
3rd-February-2005, 04:57 PM
Apart from practice? But that's the one thing you need most!snip
snip I think these are all skill learnt through lots, and lots of repetition.
Keep working on it, again and again, and again, snip
Then practice it again the next week.
Then the week after.
Just don't, ever, give up snip
Just keep at it.
Sorry Mr Gringo
I was trying relieve the forum members from telling me to practice by explaining that I had worked that out for myself.
I think I have it now due to your helpful reiteration. :wink:
By the way. your posts are educational and amusing. Thanks
Zuhal
El Salsero Gringo
3rd-February-2005, 05:11 PM
Um, well, thank you. And if it's stating-the-bleedin'-obvious you need, I'm your man - anywhere, any place, any time.
under par
6th-March-2005, 06:06 AM
Um, well, thank you. And if it's stating-the-bleedin'-obvious you need, I'm your man - anywhere, any place, any time.
Well thats obvious too.! ESG
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.