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Mary
13th-January-2005, 02:20 PM
Anyone know if this is happening this year - and where? After all the hoo-ha last year, just wondered if there were any plans underway for this year.

Be good to hear any rumours, speculations, totally unfounded theories, or any other good gossip, or maybe some info.

M

ElaineB
13th-January-2005, 02:22 PM
Be good to hear any rumours, speculations, totally unfounded theories, or any other good gossip, or maybe some info.

M

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Elaine

Gus
13th-January-2005, 02:28 PM
Be good to hear any rumours, speculations, totally unfounded theories, or any other good gossip, or maybe some info.I'd heard an unsubstantiated and TOTALLY unfounded rumour that they might get some experienced external judges and have room for freestyle this year ....... then again, maybe not :devil: :devil:

It WOULD be nice if the date scould be given out well in advance. Like most promters I have to book my venues about 12 months in advance. Though the Ceroc competition doesnt have much impact up here I would prefer not to be on the same weekend ... but if we dont know when it is its a bit difficult.

Bill
13th-January-2005, 05:04 PM
Didn't I hear they were moving it to Scotland?????? :whistle:

Mary
13th-January-2005, 05:09 PM
Didn't I hear they were moving it to Scotland?????? :whistle:

Where's that? :what:

:D

M

Jive Brummie
13th-January-2005, 05:31 PM
Where's that? :what:

:D

M

Just above Englandshire :D

Bill
13th-January-2005, 05:38 PM
Where's that? :what:

:D

M


It's where lots of dancers come to have a great time and where people are really friendly :hug: :D

Jive Brummie
13th-January-2005, 05:42 PM
It's where lots of dancers come to have a great time and where people are really friendly :hug: :D


:yeah:

Put that in your English pipe and smoke it :rofl:

:flower:

Mary
13th-January-2005, 05:48 PM
All right. Don't gang up on me - you're all bigger than me. :rolleyes: (bullies!)


M

Bill
13th-January-2005, 05:50 PM
All right. Don't gang up on me - you're all bigger than me. :rolleyes: (bullies!)


M


but I'm sure you could cope with both of us :grin: ;)

Jive Brummie
13th-January-2005, 06:02 PM
but I'm sure you could cope with both of us :grin: ;)


Steady on tiger :wink: :whistle: :drool:

CJ
13th-January-2005, 06:20 PM
Is it not June 4th in Newcastle?

Gus
13th-January-2005, 06:41 PM
Is it not June 4th in Newcastle?In that case I assume all rounds for all competitions will be danced to "Call on ME"? :whistle:

Dance Demon
13th-January-2005, 06:46 PM
In that case I assume all rounds for all competitions will be danced to "Call on ME"? :whistle:

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:Why Aye, Lets have 'em in the Toon then man, a whole neet o dancin' tu Call On Me ...that's canny.... :D

Jive Brummie
14th-January-2005, 01:02 AM
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:Why Aye, Lets have 'em in the Toon then man, a whole neet o dancin' tu Call On Me ...that's canny.... :D


ahl reet :whistle:

Doc Iain
14th-January-2005, 01:59 AM
I heard that it was taking place next weekend in the parish rooms of Old Wheatstone.....

ChrisA
14th-January-2005, 09:24 AM
I heard that the Open category has been abolished... just Intermediate and Advanced now :wink: :innocent:

Bill
14th-January-2005, 09:59 AM
I heard that the Open category has been abolished... just Intermediate and Advanced now :wink: :innocent:


and that all previous finalists have been banned so everyone else has a chance ...... and that at least one of every couple must be a Scot or have direct Scottish links. Apart from that it'll be open to all dancers. :whistle: :D

Lory
14th-January-2005, 10:04 AM
Be good to hear any rumours, speculations, totally unfounded theories, or any other good gossip, or maybe some info.

MI heard that a new rule is to be introduced, to make things fair, all competitors must dress the same. :whistle:

A 'one size fits all' catsuit with no sparkles, will be issued on entry! :D

Andy McGregor
14th-January-2005, 11:13 AM
I've heard it's going to become a beauty contest for couples :waycool:

Jive Brummie
14th-January-2005, 11:19 AM
and that all previous finalists have been banned so everyone else has a chance ...... and that at least one of every couple must be a Scot or have direct Scottish links. Apart from that it'll be open to all dancers. :whistle: :D

I heard that too...

Lou
14th-January-2005, 12:21 PM
I heard that too...
Amd that's it's only open to people between the ages of 21-30, who have to pass a panel of judges before being allowed through the door

(and that's just the spectators...)

ElaineB
14th-January-2005, 01:11 PM
I've heard it's going to become a beauty contest for couples :waycool:

And everyone is to wear a blond wig............


Elaine

Mary
14th-January-2005, 01:14 PM
Bill and JB I regard your comments as a challenge :whistle: See Bill you can't give up DT just yet.

I have some non-speculative info. (boring, sigh!). Spoke to the 'guv'nor' himself last night and asked about this year's champs. It sounds like they have the same problems as last year - nothing can be officially announced until contracts are signed. But I gather the plan is same date, same venue (I am sure if anyone can come up with a suitable alternative they would love to hear about it).

I also heard a rumour that they are going to knock down the building and have a smart new venue with posh changing rooms, decent lighting, drinking water fountains everywhere, and tiered viewing galleries. Oh, and eveyone can drive their own wardrobe truck in there. :D

M

ElaineB
14th-January-2005, 03:02 PM
But I gather the plan is same date, same venue (I am sure if anyone can come up with a suitable alternative they would love to hear about it).

M

Yup, Blackpool, Brighton, Weston Super Mare........ :rofl:

Elaine

Jive Brummie
14th-January-2005, 03:04 PM
With all the debate, last year and the years...before, I can't believe that an alternative venue can not be found.

If this venue is sooooo pants, and if people are prepared to travel...which most are, if Blackpool is anything to go by, why not have the comp somewhere like Birmingham.

There must be hundreds of possiblle venue's there. It's served well by motorway, rail and for the high flyer, air. So what's the problem.

I'm sure we all appreciate that London is the capital, but does everything have to be there? There's far more 'nation' above than there is below... :sad:

James.

p.s. not trying to be nationalist or offensive or anything else i may have to apologise for in this post, it's just kinda' exasperating that so much is said on this topic, yet nothing 'appears' to get done, depite the fact I'm sure Ceroc HQ bust their balls for it.

RobC
14th-January-2005, 03:13 PM
and that all previous finalists have been banned so everyone else has a chance ...... and that at least one of every couple must be a Scot or have direct Scottish links. Apart from that it'll be open to all dancers. :whistle: :D
Sounds good to me ..... Robert is a good scottish name ... I've never been a Ceroc finalist ... and if it's open to all, teachers can enter as well :clap: :clap:

Bill
14th-January-2005, 03:24 PM
Sounds good to me ..... Robert is a good scottish name ... I've never been a Ceroc finalist ... and if it's open to all, teachers can enter as well :clap: :clap:


Well you obviously qualify !! :rolleyes: ...see you there !

as for alternative venues I think we had a very long 'debate' about that last year while we waited to hear from HQ. Even if it's difficult it seems surprising that nealry 9 months after the last comp they are in exactly the same position :confused: :what:

RobC
14th-January-2005, 03:44 PM
Well you obviously qualify !! :rolleyes: ...see you there !

Not if it's still at the Hammersmith Palais, you won't - my boycotte still stands :wink:

I'd rather be paid to teach, covering for some of the Ceroc teachers who will be there judging, than pay to go back to that dump again :waycool:

Zuhal
14th-January-2005, 04:59 PM
I'd heard an unsubstantiated and TOTALLY unfounded rumour that they might get some experienced external judges and have room for freestyle this year ....... then again, maybe not :devil: :devil:

.

There was plenty of freestyle in 2004. Regular blocks of 30 mins in accordance with the programme.

Zuhal

Andy McGregor
14th-January-2005, 05:02 PM
Not if it's still at the Hammersmith Palais, you won't - my boycotte still stands :wink:

I'd rather be paid to teach, covering for some of the Ceroc teachers who will be there judging, than pay to go back to that dump again :waycool:

So that's you me and Katie* who aren't going if it's back at Hammersmith.

Even if it's somewhere else I won't be entering unless they promise to be nice to the competitors :flower:

*This is a guess. But she did cut her head open on the ushielded ironmongery underneath a staircase :tears:

Gus
14th-January-2005, 07:11 PM
There was plenty of freestyle in 2004. Regular blocks of 30 mins in accordance with the programme.Ahh ... what I was refering to was plenty of [i]room[/] for freestyle. The two times I went to Hammersmith I got fed up of either not being able to get on the floor or when I did getting battered from all sides. At least at UK Chmaps (Blackpool) there is room for all.

filthycute
14th-January-2005, 10:00 PM
My feelings are much the same. I was there in 2002 .....Pants!!!
Wouldn't go back if you paid me. :sick:

fc x x





So that's you me and Katie* who aren't going if it's back at Hammersmith.

Even if it's somewhere else I won't be entering unless they promise to be nice to the competitors :

Tiggerbabe
15th-January-2005, 07:33 PM
Ahh ... what I was refering to was plenty of room for freestyle. The two times I went to Hammersmith I got fed up of either not being able to get on the floor or when I did getting battered from all sides. At least at UK Champs (Blackpool) there is room for all.
Well I was there in 2004 Gus, and I had a great time. :D
I enjoyed taking part in the lucky dip and the advanced competition, enjoyed watching all of the other competitions, really enjoyed catching up with everyone who was there.

And...........I had a "blast" during the freestyles and had as much room to dance as I remember having at Blackpool.(Plus I got two dances with Clayton :drool: )

And...........I'll definitely be going 2005 :hug: :kiss:

Heather
15th-January-2005, 08:01 PM
Well I was there in 2004 Gus, and I had a great time. :D
I enjoyed taking part in the lucky dip and the advanced competition, enjoyed watching all of the other competitions, really enjoyed catching up with everyone who was there.

And...........I had a "blast" during the freestyles and had as much room to dance as I remember having at Blackpool.(Plus I got two dances with Clayton :drool: )

And...........I'll definitely be going 2005 :hug: :kiss:


Well, I've heard that Red Bull gives you wings, but I had'nt realised it had 'mind altering' powers as well !!!! :wink: :rofl:
You sure you were in the same place as everyone else Sheena ?
The Hammersmith Palais I remember was a complete dump !!

:hug: :kiss:
Heather,
xx

Tiggerbabe
15th-January-2005, 08:20 PM
Well, I've heard that Red Bull gives you wings, but I had'nt realised it had 'mind altering' powers as well !!!! :wink: :rofl:
You sure you were in the same place as everyone else Sheena ?
The Hammersmith Palais I remember was a complete dump !!

:hug: :kiss:
Heather,
xx
Didn't think you were there last year H (I must have had "way" too much Red Bull) thought that was 2003.:whistle::hug:

There were definite improvements last year, compared with the year before.
I enjoyed the Ceroc Champs 2004 - I didn't say it was the "best venue I've ever been in" - but then, for that to be true, they'd have to hold it in The Beach Ballroom, Aberdeen, and unfortunately, I don't think the BB is big enough :tears:

Andy McGregor
16th-January-2005, 03:58 PM
Didn't think you were there last year H (I must have had "way" too much Red Bull) thought that was 2003.:whistle::hug:

There were definite improvements last year, compared with the year before.
I enjoyed the Ceroc Champs 2004 - I didn't say it was the "best venue I've ever been in" - but then, for that to be true, they'd have to hold it in The Beach Ballroom, Aberdeen, and unfortunately, I don't think the BB is big enough :tears:

I agree with Tiggerbabe. The 2004 Ceroc champs was better than the 2003 event. But, IMHO, that comparison is a bit like saying that you've still got dandruff but it's not as bad as it was :sick:

Graham W
16th-January-2005, 04:13 PM
I've heard that there are going to be internet facilities in the loos as well as the video ads.., so we can keep forumites updated..

G

lindyloo
16th-January-2005, 06:42 PM
experienced external judges .

I don't think you could do much better than the 6 times World Latin American Champion!

Gus
16th-January-2005, 07:07 PM
I don't think you could do much better than the 6 times World Latin American Champion!Great ... if you are judging Latin American dancing .....

I think the genesis of this barbed comment was if you look at the line up of the judges for some of the other dnace competitions ... you see a line up of the great and the good from the MJ world. If you compare that to the line up at the Ceroc Competition ... you can see a big disparity. If I was competing in a competiton I would want to see a line of judges who you KNOW have better experience than yourself .... not sure that that was the case with the line up Ceroc judges I've previously seen. NOT been vindictive on this one (OK ... I know that makes a change :wink: ) .. just honest.

lindyloo
16th-January-2005, 07:18 PM
Great ... if you are judging Latin American dancing .....Just for information Latin American dancing includes the Jive

Gus
16th-January-2005, 07:31 PM
Great ... if you are judging Latin American dancing .....
Just for information Latin American dancing includes the Jive

Forgive my lack of knowldge but I thought there was a fairly significant difference between Ballroom Jive and MJ. :confused:

spindr
16th-January-2005, 10:09 PM
Great ... if you are judging Latin American dancing .....

Just for information Latin American dancing includes the Jive

Just an observation, but according to the 2004 ceroc champs website (http://www.cerocchamps.com/categories.htm#intermediate), modern jive such as Ceroc doesn't?


The dance must be recognisable as a modern jive like Ceroc. (Lindy Hop, Jitterbug, West Coast Swing, East Coast Swing, 50s style Rock 'n' Roll, Ballroom Jive etc are not modern jives and therefore are not permitted.)

SpinDr.

Daisy
16th-January-2005, 11:54 PM
I don't think you could do much better than the 6 times World Latin American Champion!


Besides, she only judged the finals.

Gus
17th-January-2005, 12:43 AM
Besides, she only judged the finals.Does that explain some of the decisions :whistle: :wink:
(Just thought I'd get that in before Andy McG does ... :devil: )

Andy McGregor
17th-January-2005, 01:10 AM
Does that explain some of the decisions :whistle: :wink:
(Just thought I'd get that in before Andy McG does ... :devil: )

Sorry, I wasn't quite quick enough.

IMHO you use judges that are expert in the thing they are judging. There's a jive section for ice dance - but I don't think that even the greatest MJ'er would be right to judge it. So, Lindyloo is right that you couldn't do better than the six times World Latin American Champion - but only if they were judging a similar competition to the one they won and have expertise in, ie Latin American Dance (this assumes there isn't a seven times World Latin American Champion).

I've seen MJ competitions where a significant proportion of the judges are Lindy Hoppers who don't do MJ - I think this is wrong too. How can anyone but an experienced MJ'er judge and MJ competition? :confused: Especially when the rules state that the dance must be MJ?

And, I'm not sure the judging at the 2004 Ceroc champs had anything wrong with it - because my oberservation is that the judges opinion may not have been entered onto the computer that produced the result.

p.s. Is there a written definition of MJ? To me it's a bit like an elephant, difficult to describe in writing but easily recognised when you see one.

Andy McGregor
17th-January-2005, 10:32 AM
.. and another thing. How competent would an MJ'er be to judge a Latin American Competition? Or even a ballroom jive competition? IMHO, there'd be uproar in the world or Latin American dance. So why should we meekly accept a champion Latin American Dancer as a judge at a MJ competition?

Mary
17th-January-2005, 01:13 PM
Ok. Long post coming up so hope I can make it all make sense. Firstly, I applaud the idea of an 'independant' judge who is expert/highly qualified in their field of discipline. However, one is not enough to give a balance view. Perhaps a number experts in other fields of dance would give a move balanced overall view i.e. ballet, jazz, ballroom, show choreographer, ice dance. None of them would know much about MJ, but would be able to pick out technique, poise, musicality, presentation, connection etc maybe. Not sure that this is something I would go along with but it's just a thought. One expert is not enough. Either have none (outside MJ that is) or balance it with experts in more than one discipline.

I think I can understand why a Ceroc champs would want Ceroc people (in the past - always CTA teachers) to judge. However, a lot of people know that being a good teacher is not always synonymous with being a good dancer (in the same way that a good drama teacher is not necesarily a good actor!). Although all the teachers I have seen are also pretty fab dancers - I guess they have to be to be able to inspire newcomers. Anyway, I digress.

I would suggest that if the Ceroc Champs is to be a MJ competition then it should reflect the growing diversity of the develelopment of MJ. MJ is being influenced by elements of Tango, Hip-hop, Salsa, Ballroom, WCS as well as having it's roots in Lindy and Charleston etc. With this in mind should the judging also have similar diversity? Maybe in addition to Ceroc teachers have judges familiar with MJ but also have good standing in other dance forms.

It may be suggested that a number of Ceroc teachers do have backgrounds in other dances, but I am suggesting more of a championship/performance level. Not dissing any Ceroc teachers here, some of whom are successful performers on the competition circuit. Having said that I would be very happy being judged by these people whom I would have a high regard and respect for. (Oh dear, do I sound like I am contradicting myself here?!) Does any of this make sense?

M

Sparkles
17th-January-2005, 05:48 PM
Yes, Mary, it makes perfect sense and I think you have a valid point.

MJ, from what I've seen, takes a lot of inspiration from all over the dancing world. The great thing about MJ is that you can 'let the music tell you what to do' (or in Andy and Sheepman's cases 'listen to the little voices' :rolleyes: ) without being restrained by set patterns, footwork or posture. The problem is I think it would be very hard for someone who has not 'done' any MJ to fully appreciate this.
I know some (not all) latin american dancers, for example, who consider themselves to be 'above' MJ because it is not 'disciplined' and therefore they think it is 'sloppy', rather than appreciating the skill it takes to break all the "rules" and go hell for leather dancing with as much musicality, musical interpretation and skill as they can! They just don't realise that it's a *different* skill, no more or less worthy and no more or less difficult. Similarly I think that some ballet dancers and lindy hoppers (and probably anyone else who raves about their own preferred dancing style) would feel the same way, just as some cerocers don't appreciate the skills needed for some of the other forms of dancing mentioned.

Finding suitable judges must, therefore, be a tricky thing to do, but, should I ever get to enter a MJ competition, I believe I would wish to be judged by those who have prooven themselves in the MJ world and who are respected for their MJ dancing skill. After all, I'm not entering a ballroom comp, but if I were I'd expect to be judged by well-respected ballroom dancers. It makes sense, if you ask me, but then why should my opinion make a difference?

lindyloo
18th-January-2005, 12:33 AM
Sorry not time to answer all points.

But basically all judges are looking for good rhythm & timing, posture & grooming (to use the correct expression), self-expression and technical ability (being general and not getting into all of the rules for each section), whether you are judging a ballroom jive competition or a MJ competition (and I have done both).

Sparkles
18th-January-2005, 10:57 AM
Sorry not time to answer all points.

But basically all judges are looking for good rhythm & timing, posture & grooming (to use the correct expression), self-expression and technical ability (being general and not getting into all of the rules for each section), whether you are judging a ballroom jive competition or a MJ competition (and I have done both).

I like the use of the word 'all' here :rolleyes: :flower:

Andy McGregor
18th-January-2005, 11:36 AM
But basically all judges are looking for good rhythm & timing, posture & grooming (to use the correct expression), self-expression and technical ability (being general and not getting into all of the rules for each section),
Is this what they're briefed to look for at the Ceroc champs?

I just ask because it doesn't look much like the list I remember seeing for the champs :confused:

lindyloo
18th-January-2005, 07:48 PM
Is this what they're briefed to look for at the Ceroc champs?

I just ask because it doesn't look much like the list I remember seeing for the champs :confused:


Andy stop trying to read into everything I write.

I merely was writing in general terms rather than referencing a particular competition

Andy McGregor
19th-January-2005, 03:24 AM
Andy stop trying to read into everything I write.


I read everything lindyloo writes as a love letter or a sonnet :devil:


I merely was writing in general terms rather than referencing a particular competition

Whilst lindyloo is Mrs Ceroc it's difficult not to hear the voice of Ceroc. My advice to her is to come into the light, leave the dark side and come to Hipsters for a dance and chat ...

.. maybe a cuddle or two and a snog would be nice as well :devil:

Dance Demon
19th-January-2005, 11:06 AM
Ok.
I would suggest that if the Ceroc Champs is to be a MJ competition then it should reflect the growing diversity of the develelopment of MJ. MJ is being influenced by elements of Tango, Hip-hop, Salsa, Ballroom, WCS as well as having it's roots in Lindy and Charleston etc. With this in mind should the judging also have similar diversity? Maybe in addition to Ceroc teachers have judges familiar with MJ but also have good standing in other dance forms


:yeah: ......with all the diversification coming in from other dance styles, which are now being taught at MJ weekenders and workshops all the time, How exactly do you define what is and what isn't true MJ?

RobC
19th-January-2005, 12:29 PM
:yeah: ......with all the diversification coming in from other dance styles, which are now being taught at MJ weekenders and workshops all the time, How exactly do you define what is and what isn't true MJ?
Perhaps we should go back to calling our beloved dance style 'Ceroc' instead of MJ. You could then define 'Ceroc' to be only those moves defined in the 'Bible'. Of course the 'Bible' would then have to be published and publically available to everyone :devil:

Then 'Ceroc' competitions become easier and more predicatable to judge as everyone knows what moves they can and can't do without getting penalised for not dancing 'Ceroc' sylabus moves ..... :rolleyes:

Sparkles
19th-January-2005, 12:32 PM
Perhaps we should go back to calling our beloved dance style 'Ceroc' instead of MJ. You could then define 'Ceroc' to be only those moves defined in the 'Bible'. Of course the 'Bible' would then have to be published and publically available to everyone :devil:

Then 'Ceroc' competitions become easier and more predicatable to judge as everyone knows what moves they can and can't do without getting penalised for not dancing 'Ceroc' sylabus moves ..... :rolleyes:

And, although I know your post here is particularly tonuge in cheek, I'd just like to clarify the point that surely, if all this :yeah: was done, it would then take away from the 'freedom factor' of dancing modern jive - one of the main reasons I was converted from ballroom....

RobC
19th-January-2005, 12:46 PM
And, although I know your post here is particularly tonuge in cheek,
:what: Doh, rumbled :D

I'd just like to clarify the point that surely, if all this :yeah: was done, it would then take away from the 'freedom factor' of dancing modern jive - one of the main reasons I was converted from ballroom....
:yeah: Was kinda alluding to that :whistle:

Dance Demon
19th-January-2005, 12:46 PM
Perhaps we should go back to calling our beloved dance style 'Ceroc' instead of MJ. You could then define 'Ceroc' to be only those moves defined in the 'Bible'. Of course the 'Bible' would then have to be published and publically available to everyone :devil:
T

Yes, but doesn't that bible change and expand as time goes bye?... I can remember a few years ago being tought a Charleston kick move at a Ceroc class in Edinburgh, and more recently the Mambo turn step at a Ceroc class is Stirling. so we have a Lindy style move, and a Latin style move, both being tought by Ceroc, but would a couple be penalised for using either of them in a Ceroc championship, bearing in mind that the rules stipulate that Lindy and latin are not MJ styles?.. :devil:

Sparkles
19th-January-2005, 12:49 PM
:yeah: Was kinda alluding to that :whistle:

I know, I just wanted to spell it out :flower:
I'm agreeing with you.
S. x

Andy McGregor
19th-January-2005, 01:03 PM
How exactly do you define what is and what isn't true MJ?
IMHO we can define MJ by which beats we use. MJ is danced on beat one and beat 3 of music with 4 beats to the bar. There are exceptions but they are easy to define.

N.B. You could also define MJ as being the only dance where 90% of the dancers constantly bounce their hands up and down :devil:

RobC
19th-January-2005, 01:16 PM
IMHO we can define MJ by which beats we use. MJ is danced on beat one and beat 3 of music with 4 beats to the bar. There are exceptions but they are easy to define.
Are they ? Does this really take into account all the syncapation and styling variations introduced through the influence of Latin, Hip Hop etc ?


N.B. You could also define MJ as being the only dance where 90% of the dancers constantly bounce their hands up and down :devil:
What about Morris Dancing ? There's a lot of bouncing hands going on there with shaking bells and waving hankies ....

Andy McGregor
19th-January-2005, 01:20 PM
What about Morris Dancing ? There's a lot of bouncing hands going on there with shaking bells and waving hankies ....

I can feel a whole new cabaret coming over me :wink:

David Chu
19th-January-2005, 01:24 PM
Hi All,

It seems to me that once you attain a certain level in "Modern Jive", you
start to experiment with other dance styles, using the basic skills you aquire from MJ.
Let face it, MJ is an easy way to learn how to "move". The "dancing" part comes along with experience.

I agree with Dance demon, MJ is changing all the time and I can only see this as a good thing as it means I can keep changing and adding to my style.

It makes sense that MJ takes from other dance styles all the good stuff, adapts it and leaves alot of the formalities behind. This is part of the popularity of the style. I'd love to see some "Asian" and "Far Eastern influence thrown in too.

I'm really glad to know what judges are looking for, as these are the things I will keep in mind in preparation for the forthcoming comps.
I find it very exciting to think a judge from outside MJ will be judging as they bring a fresh approach. I love the idea that I would be judged by someone from a different stream of dance as they can see through MJ and see other intrinsic dance abilities, whether it be classic ballet, Latin American, Capiero,
Highland Fling or whatever.

We have to accept that for MJ to survive as a true dance style, "constantly changing" and "informal" must be part of the definition.

Without formal ballroom training, MJ is, in my mind, one of the most spectacular way of shining on the dance floor and I'm all the better for it.

Is the venue for the comps really something to get so worked up over?
If you are ever interested in spectacular dancing, try get yourselves to Argentina...you'll forget how run down the venues are and concentrate on the dancing.

I'm so looking forward to competing in Blackpool and hopefully in London.
The venue isn't really an issue for me, I would expect the floor to be flat and obstacle free. You can dance MJ at the biggest and best venue around and you are still going to get hot and sticky and bump into people, thats just the kind of dance it is.

By the way... is there a comptition dairy listing somewhere. I'd like to find out what comps are happening between now and the end of May 2005.

Dance and have the time of your life,

XXX

David

Andy McGregor
19th-January-2005, 02:02 PM
By the way... is there a comptition dairy listing somewhere. I'd like to find out what comps are happening between now and the end of May 2005.


As things currently stand, the competition diary between now and May is as follows;

5th March Chance2Dance, Blackpool.

N.B. The Ceroc Champs are usually on the Sunday before the first May Bank Holiday so my guess it that they will be on Sunday 1st May - but Ceroc haven't announced anything yet.

latinlover
19th-January-2005, 02:13 PM
And, although I know your post here is particularly tonuge in cheek, I'd just like to clarify the point that surely, if all this :yeah: was done, it would then take away from the 'freedom factor' of dancing modern jive - one of the main reasons I was converted from ballroom....

:yeah:
and let's all remember the PLOT part of "Strictly Ballroom" eh?
isn't it all about not being hideboud by the rules? :whistle:

not that I care as I don't do competitions,but it's the rule-benders and breakers who keep all art-forms developing and evolving, more power to them, I say
otherwise ceroc/mj judging would be simply a matter of ticking boxes, and we all know how invidious that is in other walks of life, where professional JUDGEMENT is all but eliminated :mad:

Mary
19th-January-2005, 04:57 PM
But basically all judges are looking for good rhythm & timing, posture & grooming (to use the correct expression), self-expression and technical ability (being general and not getting into all of the rules for each section), whether you are judging a ballroom jive competition or a MJ competition (and I have done both).

Bit late coming back on this one. OK, I'm inclined to agree on this one, in which case would it not be a good idea to have more than one 'independent' judge from other dance disciplines. Whilst I don't class MJ as a dance 'discipline' it does give us humble 'untrained' would-be dancers a vehicle for self-expression, of which there might be elements of a discipline involved. ( :confused: I think I've confused myself here). My contention is the validity of only having teachers as judges.

As far as I am aware Ceroc teachers are selected for training based on an overall package of appearance, energy, ability to project, ability to inspire and some dancing (i.e they don't have to be great dancers initially), and probably a few other things as well. Whilst these things may make a great teacher it does not automatically qualify them to be a good judge IMO.

Just a thought. How about a whole panel of independent judges who will not know who the rising stars or the 'faces' are. Maybe just have a Ceroc adviser/adjudicator. Hopefully, this would produce a completely unbiased result.

M

Sparkles
20th-January-2005, 10:50 AM
Just a thought. How about a whole panel of independent judges who will not know who the rising stars or the 'faces' are. Maybe just have a Ceroc adviser/adjudicator. Hopefully, this would produce a completely unbiased result.

Excuse me if this has already been answered, but do you suspect foul play somewhere along the line, Mary?

ChrisA
20th-January-2005, 11:17 AM
You can dance MJ at the biggest and best venue around and you are still going to get hot and sticky and bump into people, thats just the kind of dance it is.

It's not at all about the kind of dance it is !! :flower:

Bumping into people is caused by the inconsiderate way people dance :mad: , not by the dance itself.

As is getting hot and sticky. Even to fast music, it's perfectly possible, if you want to, to dance with small movements, and hardly get out of breath at all.

Of course, if your preference is to dance with a lot of energy and get hot and sticky, then that's your call.

But that in no way makes it acceptable to do so without consideration for who's around you.

Chris

Mary
20th-January-2005, 11:59 AM
Excuse me if this has already been answered, but do you suspect foul play somewhere along the line, Mary?

No, not referencing any incident in particular - just musing. It would seem to me if I were judging, that a couple that I knew were good dancers I would spend less time looking at them and mark them through so I had more time to look at other couples whom I didn't know. Although I'm sure this would not be the case when it came to a final, and I'm sure everyone tries to be objective.

Mind you I could envisage some harsh decisions if none of the judges knew any of the couples. Could be good, could be bad. Hmmm, maybe a mix would be a good idea.

M

Zuhal
20th-January-2005, 12:40 PM
It would seem to me if I were judging, that a couple that I knew were good dancers I would spend less time looking at them and mark them through so I had more time to look at other couples whom I didn't know. Although I'm sure this would not be the case when it came to a final, and I'm sure everyone tries to be objective.
M

I am astonished by this comment.
What ever next, Byes into the second round for all Faces


Zuhal

David Franklin
20th-January-2005, 12:51 PM
I am astonished by this comment.
What ever next, Byes into the second round for all FacesI don't think we're talking about giving people a free ride. But you usually only get 15 seconds or so per couple to mark them in the 1st round. If I were watching, say, Clayton and Janine, and in the 1st 5 seconds they look good, I'm likely to think "OK - they're through - can concentrate on the others". But if they miss a handhold, I'll think "Hey, not like them - better look more closely", and I would spend more time watching to see if it was a one-off. Plus the same in reverse for a couple I expect to be dreadful. [Er, not that I'm a judge, you understand...]

Of course, that is definitely a form of biased judging. But it does have a good chance of letting the judges spend time where it's needed...

Dave

Mary
20th-January-2005, 01:16 PM
I am astonished by this comment.
What ever next, Byes into the second round for all Faces


Zuhal

No. I'm just suggesting that if a couple who you know as good dancers happen to dance particularly badly in a round, should they be automatically marked through to the next round just because you know they are normally very good?

Just trying to think of what is a totally fair system. Could be that the current system works perfectly well and why change it? Thought it might be useful to examine different options.

M

Bill
20th-January-2005, 01:26 PM
Of course, if your preference is to dance with a lot of energy and get hot and sticky, then that's your call.

But that in no way makes it acceptable to do so without consideration for who's around you.

Chris


It's one of the biggest complaints at a MJ night I think - lack of respect for other dancers and awareness of how much space someone is using. I've been close a few times to actually stopping couples who constantly barge into others causing others to take avoiding action and possibly causing injury.

People can dance energetically and do 'big' moves and still be aware of the space around them. It's supposed to be fun, not a combat sport :mad: But we've covered this severall times before. :rolleyes:

Bill
20th-January-2005, 04:34 PM
I am astonished by this comment.
What ever next, Byes into the second round for all Faces


Zuhal


As far as I'm aware, what Mary says is actually exactly what happens. A quick check that the 'recognised' couples are dancing as well as usual and then on to the others, possibly lesser known dancers.

If every couple had to be judged as if unknown then I wonder if some of the 'best' couples would always get through. I've noticed that the likely winners often pace themselves so do enough to get through and build up to the final. I watched Clayton & Janine (sp) at Blackpool last year and in the first round I didn't think they danced well at all and were not the best in their round. Had they been anyone else maybe they wouldn't have gone through but by the final they looked superb !

I don't think it's possible to erase your knowledge of competitors - especially as the judges and the top group of dancers see each other so often - and in some cases may be trained or coached by them.

That doesn't necessarily make it unfair or biased but I think it means that 'new' couples have to dance really well in the first round to be noticed and may peak too early. :whistle: :rolleyes:

under par
20th-January-2005, 06:27 PM
Just trying to think of what is a totally fair system. Could be that the current system works perfectly well and why change it? Thought it might be useful to examine different options.

M

There is no totally fair system because it is all opinion based.

What one person percieves to be a good performance could equally be seen to be poor by another.

It all depends upon the opinionaters background in dance, experience, preferred style, view of dancefloor and when you throw in 5 or 7 other couples dancing at the same time then the element of total fairness can only end up as a bit of a lottery.

I am not castigating the system as it is only version that seems to be available.

But entrants must compete to enjoy and do there best in the knowledge that what they may dance a fantastic heat of dancing but others may not see it the same.

I personally danced a comp that I made lots and lots of errors during the heats but got through.

I did not think I had danced well yet others thought it was good!!! :confused:

Opinions opinions opinions......its what it all about.

It is all great fun and should be taken as such.