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Sheepman
25th-November-2004, 03:56 PM
Can we define what musicality is ? From different threads people seem to intepret it very differently I'd been considering starting something on this, and despite Andy's recent thread, it still doesn't seem to be getting tackled.

So the above offers a few suggestions for discussion, I'm sure you can come up with more...

Greg

Trish
25th-November-2004, 04:35 PM
It's a pity there isn't a box for "all of the above" - that's nearer the mark to me!

Yliander
25th-November-2004, 04:41 PM
for me the concept of musicality is that if you if you can't hear the music a couple are dancing to - you can see what it is ...

slow, smooth & sexy

fast, fun and frenetic

sharp, funky

and all the variations in between

Dreadful Scathe
25th-November-2004, 04:47 PM
It's a pity there isn't a box for "all of the above" - that's nearer the mark to me!
I just ticked them all, Greg knows musicality and all his suggestions are valid - he might have at least come up with some stupid ones to test us. i.e jumping up and down through the entire song :) I am quite consious of the fact that most of them I dont do or possibly do badly but they are all things i would consider to be valid musical interpretation.

Daisy Chain
25th-November-2004, 04:50 PM
Musicality for me is demonstrated awesomely by Torvill & Dean. When they ice dance it appears to me that there is no taped music playing, instead they are creating the music with their movements.

I'm not that musical, I need much more practice and have started scaring the Boys by hitting the breaks for them :blush: How else am I going to learn?

Daisy

(An Icy Little Flower)

drathzel
25th-November-2004, 04:50 PM
damn, i didn't realise it was multiple choice! Thats what i get for jumping in with out reading the instructions!!! :blush:

bigdjiver
25th-November-2004, 04:57 PM
damn, i didn't realise it was multiple choice! Thats what i get for jumping in with out reading the instructions!!! :blush:Odd. I did realise that it was multiple choice, but just picked one, the same one as you.

drathzel
25th-November-2004, 05:10 PM
Odd. I did realise that it was multiple choice, but just picked one, the same one as you.

Yeahy, i'm not alone!!!

:hug:

Lory
25th-November-2004, 05:21 PM
Interesting project/game.......

Find a play list of say 10 well known songs, all with different genre.

Get a few (good) couples to dance them, and film them.

With a group of friends, you have to guess (from the playlist) which track they're dancing to, just by their interpretation and body movements! :nice:

The bit I'm not sure about is, would the game be to judge the dancers musicality or our own :confused:

Hey, would you buy the game? :cool: Move over Trivial persuit! :D

Sheepman
25th-November-2004, 05:30 PM
damn, i didn't realise it was multiple choice! OK, I should have said it right at the start, but just in case anyone hasn't realised by now, you can tick as many options as you want.

I do like the "poetic" descriptions of musicality, that you can "see the music the couple are dancing to", or Daisy Chain's thoughts, but for me, I started with just dancing to the beat, going through all the breaks and ignoring light and shade, I needed lessons, and specifics to try and break that down. Because for me, I don't believe it is an innate ability. It is nice when sometime it seems to go half right to a track though. Especially a new one that you've never heard before, so you have to pick up on the musical structure.

Greg

Zebra Woman
25th-November-2004, 05:34 PM
Interesting project/game.......

Find a play list of say 10 well known songs, all with different genre.

Get a few (good) couples to dance them, and film them.

With a group of friends, you have to guess (from the playlist) which track they're dancing to, just by their interpretation and body movements! :nice:

The bit I'm not sure about is, would the game be to judge the dancers musicality or our own :confused:

Hey, would you buy the game? :cool: Move over Trivial persuit! :D

Fab game :clap: I want to play!! If you had wireless headsets, then you could play it like charades. :D

Lory
25th-November-2004, 05:41 PM
Fab game :clap: I want to play!! If you had wireless headsets, then you could play it like charades. :D
:yeah: even better! :clap:

BeeBee
25th-November-2004, 05:54 PM
Interesting project/game.......

Find a play list of say 10 well known songs, all with different genre.

Get a few (good) couples to dance them, and film them.

With a group of friends, you have to guess (from the playlist) which track they're dancing to, just by their interpretation and body movements! :nice:



Yeah, this sounds like fun - have you done this already? :grin:

bigdjiver
25th-November-2004, 06:09 PM
Interesting project/game.......

Find a play list of say 10 well known songs, all with different genre.

Get a few (good) couples to dance them, and film them.

With a group of friends, you have to guess (from the playlist) which track they're dancing to, just by their interpretation and body movements! :nice:

The bit I'm not sure about is, would the game be to judge the dancers musicality or our own :confused:

Hey, would you buy the game? :cool: Move over Trivial persuit! :D
I had the same idea. Actually it can be done with any video or DVD with the sound turned off.

Done live with a single couple using headphones would be a real hoot if the objective was for the dancing couple to get their track recognised as quickly as possible, because "interpretation" would then almost certainly be reduced to the primitive level of trying to mime the lyrics whilst dancing.

It might be possible to have, say, ten couples with headphones dancing to different tracks simultaneously and the audience trying to match tracks to couple numbers on a score sheet. Where I got flummoxed with this was the technology. Ten different frequencies of wireless headphones would be one way, but open to hi-tech cheating. Individual tiny mp3 players is another possibility, but then there is the problem of sync between partners, or else have the follow dancing deaf.

T'will happen...

Lory
25th-November-2004, 06:20 PM
Yeah, this sounds like fun - have you done this already? :grin:
No! :na: I just thought of it! :D Actually, it's still thought in progress! :o

Can't you hear?.....tick tock, tick tock, clunk, ping!! :rofl:

bigdjiver
25th-November-2004, 06:43 PM
No! :na: I just thought of it! :D Actually, it's still thought in progress! :o

Can't you hear?.....tick tock, tick tock, clunk, ping!! :rofl:
Now, THAT'S musicality!

foxylady
25th-November-2004, 10:53 PM
Fab game :clap: I want to play!! If you had wireless headsets, then you could play it like charades. :D

Me too !

jockey
26th-November-2004, 01:34 AM
Ultimate musicality occurs in ballet (so I was reading) where a story is enaccted to the music; we see this in Nigel and Nina's showcase performances (boy meets girl, boy loses girl etc (and less banal)). (Nina is of course ballet trained I think I am right in saying.) But as I argue in a related thread a high standard of musicality is only available in choreographed routines between established partners. The aim in freestyle is to get as close as possible to that ideal. The danger in so doing is to get so caught up in dancing to the music in a necessarily 'off the cuff' manner that the moves suffer; and if you are at a 'down the line' ceroc venue like Bromley you run the risk of your current partner thinking you have gone mad or cant dance or cant lead. Believe me! At Rockbottoms you will be a star with the same stuff.

Funny old game, Jimmy :sick:

jockey
26th-November-2004, 02:52 AM
for me the concept of musicality is that if you if you can't hear the music a couple are dancing to - you can see what it is ...

slow, smooth & sexy

fast, fun and frenetic

sharp, funky

and all the variations in betweenon your first choice (slow, smooth and sexy) you could be describing 'Blues' dancing as taaaught by N +N, Simon Selmen, Roger Chinn et al. Blues classes are all about 'musicality' inasmuch that bbbblues is not slow jive but a 'feeling' aand only certain kinds of moves are suitable e.g., less of the overhead type moves and more of the sweeps and sling outs and bags of stops and wiggles. If you go to Camber or Bognor and watch in the blues and swing room when the music gets 'bluesy' you will see the slow jivers standing out like a sore thumb whereas those cats from Ealing, say, really know how to interpret this music. Yes, advice to ceroc teachers who want to teach MUSICALITY - start with the blues (man).

Yliander
26th-November-2004, 06:16 AM
on your first choice (slow, smooth and sexy) you could be describing 'Blues' dancing as taaaught by N +N, Simon Selmen, Roger Chinn et al. Blues classes are all about 'musicality' inasmuch that bbbblues is not slow jive but a 'feeling' aand only certain kinds of moves are suitable e.g., less of the overhead type moves and more of the sweeps and sling outs and bags of stops and wiggles. If you go to Camber or Bognor and watch in the blues and swing room when the music gets 'bluesy' you will see the slow jivers standing out like a sore thumb whereas those cats from Ealing, say, really know how to interpret this music. Yes, advice to ceroc teachers who want to teach MUSICALITY - start with the blues (man).
actually i wouldn't be describing blues dancing - we don't have it here Perth, Australia - but from what I have read about it on this forum and from explanation from Trampy and the music choices for it - it's not what I am talking about really - proberbly putting slow first was wrong as it gives the wrong emphisis - smooth, sexy & slow would be the right way round and as I am not talking about as slow as blues seems to be. For me a perfect track for this sort of styling musical interpretation is Enrique - Escape - slow version.

Yliander
26th-November-2004, 06:21 AM
Interesting project/game.......

Find a play list of say 10 well known songs, all with different genre.

Get a few (good) couples to dance them, and film them.

With a group of friends, you have to guess (from the playlist) which track they're dancing to, just by their interpretation and body movements! :nice:

The bit I'm not sure about is, would the game be to judge the dancers musicality or our own :confused:

Hey, would you buy the game? :cool: Move over Trivial persuit! :D :clap: :clap: I would sounds like an absoulte riot!!! :rofl:

jockey
26th-November-2004, 08:54 AM
One area of musicality we haven't discussed yet (so far as I can tell) is finishing the dance. It's a great opportunity for a drop, of course, to mark what is often a dramatic moment. Some numbers have false endings (ever done Snowdonia where you think you've reache d the top..and then, ok look another bit) which are a pain or a challenge (whichever way you look at it).
But I like the fade outs - as you can do something whimsical and slowly walk off (ooor whatever). But please Britrock dont count in the ending - you are eliminating an important competition skill.

Magic Hans
26th-November-2004, 02:50 PM
I just ticked them all, Greg knows musicality and all his suggestions are valid - he might have at least come up with some stupid ones to test us. i.e jumping up and down through the entire song :) I am quite consious of the fact that most of them I dont do or possibly do badly but they are all things i would consider to be valid musical interpretation.

I'd beg to differ, your 'onor!

Sure hitting the breaks the first few times felt really novel, interrupted the flow of the moves, and added some welcome variety. How about after the 85 thousandth time!! Do I still want to hit all the breaks? It's now predictable, routine and adds (at most) little. Every song will ultimately have it's own fixed routine. :tears:

I've got a problem with acting out the lyrics as well ... 'specially when it crosses the music. [I think this has been raised before] Music is lively, and lyrics are sad? What am I influenced by? Personally, the music. Lyric says "Stop", accompanied by a sudden musical clash (of cymbals) okay. How about if music continues.

For me, improvising is a great part of dancing, as is the dynamic between me and my partner.

And so, in conclusion, the manner in which I dance with my partner will be determined by:
a) how I feel at that particular time
b) the level of rapport that I have with my partner at that particular time
c) how my partner responds to me at that particular time (presumably based on how she is)

I will probably do all of those things listed at one time or another .... but certainly not consistently. Why not? Because I am continuously changing, little by little, day by day. As are (I guess) my dance partners!)
:flower:


Ian

PS ... great thread ... great discussion ... great opinions ... great food for thought!
:cheers: :clap: :cheers: :clap: :cheers:

PPS I wholey agree with Daisy Chain and Jockey, about using the body to tell a story (where possible) to music. Problem with choreographed music is the loss of spontaneity ... and lead/follow for that matter. Really good couples will be able to make it look fresh for years .... probably not on the inside though!

DavidB
26th-November-2004, 03:28 PM
Every song will ultimately have it's own fixed routine.There are too many ways of interpreting the music for it to be the same every time. When I teach, I explain about 9 levels of interpreting the beat, and at least the same for everything else (lyrics, mood, etc). But when I dance I'm lucky if I can think of more than 3 or 4, let alone allowing the lady do them. (Notice the "allowing the lady" bit - I obviously just stand still...)


Problem with choreographed music is the loss of spontaneity ... and lead/follow for that matter.The only thing choreographed is the move. The styling, the emotion, the timing etc can all change.

And even though the move is choreographed - it is still lead and follow. There is so much more to lead & follow than just the man telling the lady what move to do next.


David

Dreadful Scathe
26th-November-2004, 04:04 PM
I'd beg to differ, your 'onor!

Sure hitting the breaks the first few times felt really novel, interrupted the flow of the moves, and added some welcome variety. How about after the 85 thousandth time!! Do I still want to hit all the breaks?

Hmm, the point is that they are valid methods of musical interpretation not that they are any good. You say you differ in opinion, but explain breaks as if they were valid musical interpretation that you got fed up with :) Other valid interpretation would be slapping yourself in the face on every second beat but your follower would seriously worry about your mental health if you tried it :).

David Franklin
26th-November-2004, 04:11 PM
The only thing choreographed is the move. The styling, the emotion, the timing etc can all change.Not to mention whether or not you step in a pool of water during the lift... :devil:

Dave

Trish
26th-November-2004, 05:15 PM
damn, i didn't realise it was multiple choice! Thats what i get for jumping in with out reading the instructions!!! :blush:

No, neither did I! It doesn't say so!

Dreadful Scathe
26th-November-2004, 05:19 PM
It has lots of tick boxes if its multiple choice, if its not multiple choice it has round switchable radio buttons instead. I thought ticks were a give away. hmm is this a web page familiarity thing ? did anyone else not realise ? Im serious, I am interested in web page user testing you see!

Trish
26th-November-2004, 05:28 PM
It has lots of tick boxes if its multiple choice, if its not multiple choice it has round switchable radio buttons instead. I thought ticks were a give away. hmm is this a web page familiarity thing ? did anyone else not realise ? Im serious, I am interested in web page user testing you see!

Thanks for that DS, I'll look out for it next time. No I didn't realise, and yes it could be a familiarity thing.


Interesting project/game.......

Find a play list of say 10 well known songs, all with different genre.

Get a few (good) couples to dance them, and film them.

With a group of friends, you have to guess (from the playlist) which track they're dancing to, just by their interpretation and body movements!

Excellent idea!

Magic Hans
26th-November-2004, 08:21 PM
There are too many ways of interpreting the music for it to be the same every time. When I teach, I explain about 9 levels of interpreting the beat, and at least the same for everything else (lyrics, mood, etc). But when I dance I'm lucky if I can think of more than 3 or 4, let alone allowing the lady do them. (Notice the "allowing the lady" bit - I obviously just stand still...) ...
:yeah:
Certainly, I agree there are a number (numerous maybe, but certainly not infinite) of ways of dancing to a specific bit of music

...
The only thing choreographed is the move. The styling, the emotion, the timing etc can all change. ...
:yeah:
Agreed again theoretically. My point is that in a finite world, is it not reasonable to suggest that one of these many combinations will prove to be optimum, and feel/look (whatever is the measure) to be the better of the alternatives. A counter argument (to mine) might be that although finite, the number of combinations is sufficiently large as to be as near as dammit! Or that because I (as an individual) will feel, at least slightly, differently day-to-day, the 'optimum' for me at any one moment might be different. Any others??

In practice, and for me, I would get bored doing the same choreographed routine week in, week out for, say, ten years. But would possibly like doing a routine that I hadn't done for a while, ten years later!


... And even though the move is choreographed - it is still lead and follow. There is so much more to lead & follow than just the man telling the lady what move to do next.
David
Please explain. My angle on lead (I'm sure there's a past or future thread there), is as simplistic as I can make it [suits my ideals!]. For me, including anything that isn't absolutely necessary, or complicates the dance relationship detracts from being with the music.

In addition to dancing, my job is (in no particular order) as a lead is to:
a) provide a supporting, confidence inspiring foundation for my follow, from which she can spring (so to speak) and perform/express.
b) keep her safe (from bumping into anyone)
c) suggest (or invite) the next move
d) suggest/invite a style
e) Help her recover should she lose balance/control beat etc

Anything else, significant to add?

Ian

Yliander
27th-November-2004, 01:00 AM
It has lots of tick boxes if its multiple choice, if its not multiple choice it has round switchable radio buttons instead. I thought ticks were a give away. hmm is this a web page familiarity thing ? did anyone else not realise ? Im serious, I am interested in web page user testing you see! I realised - but think it is a web familiarity thing - as it wasn't apparent at first - something about the wording of the poll made me think it might be and with the squares rather than radio buttons - gave it a go - think it is always worth stating if more than one option can be selected

MartinHarper
30th-November-2004, 02:43 PM
To me, musicality is letting the music affect the way you are dancing, whether you do it consciously or unconsciously, and whether the result is good, bad, or ugly. So, for me, all the options in the poll above are types of musicality, as is slapping yourself in the face on every second beat. That doesn't necessarilly mean that they're all good musicality, though...

Lynn
30th-November-2004, 02:52 PM
I feel I have to add - I'm not sure if I know exactly how to do all the things I have ticked but feel they should be done, where appropriate.

I find that I instinctively danced with some musicality for years when just dancing 'solo' at parties etc (otherwise you just shuffle from foot to foot, and dance every track the same, can't see the point in that myself!) but that I haven't transferred much of this to MJ. Anyone else find this? I suspect its because I am still learning and concentrating on following. Will I be able to merge my musical interpretation with following over time? I hope so!

MartinHarper
7th-December-2004, 12:06 AM
When real dancers freeze, people wonder why the band missed the break.

bigdjiver
7th-December-2004, 02:10 AM
When real dancers freeze, people wonder why the band missed the break. :yeah: :clap: Made my quotes file.

Dreadful Scathe
7th-December-2004, 10:46 AM
When real dancers freeze, people wonder why the band missed the break.
:D like it

Sheepman
7th-December-2004, 01:21 PM
In the unlikely occurrence that I get a chance, I will try and talk to Robert Cordoba about musicality tonight. He is the one dancer that has inspired me more than anybody else in this respect, and I think even Nigel idolises him!
I suspect the floor at Ealing will be emptier than normal tonight, because people will just be standing watching in awe.
(Hmmm, I hope he doesn't have an "off night" after I've said all that.)
So if I'm not totally awestruck, I'll be making notes to report back tomorrow.

Greg

David Franklin
7th-December-2004, 01:37 PM
In the unlikely occurrence that I get a chance, I will try and talk to Robert Cordoba about musicality tonight. He is the one dancer that has inspired me more than anybody else in this respect, and I think even Nigel idolises him! :yeah: Actually, something I'd really like would be a musicality workshop/discussion thing where Robert just talks about musicality, performance etc., maybe demoing some stuff, or playing through one of his showcase performances. When he teaches it in a "traditional" way (i.e. by having us do stuff), I find my novice WCS abilities get in the way. I'm interested in how things like how you highlight accents, change the timing of moves, how you choose and perform moves for the much more intense musicality of a showcase - but if I have to dance the concepts (at least if we're talking WCS not MJ), then I'm not going to get beyond trying to hit very obvious breaks. :tears: It's more than a little frustrating...

Dave

Sheepman
8th-December-2004, 01:39 PM
:yeah: Actually, something I'd really like would be a musicality workshop/discussion thing where Robert just talks about musicality, performance etc. Why hadn't I thought of that? (No need to answer that :blush: ). Maybe we should start lobbying for such a workshop for his next trip, that means we might have to wait another year :sad:

I'm afraid I have nothing to report back from last night, (I could talk about the lesson, but that is way off thread). How useless am I? :blush: (You don't HAVE to answer that either.) Every now and then I said "I must go and watch Robert dancing." and a great track came on, and there was a fab dancer for me to dance with, and I, erm, spent the whole night dancing... Sorry!

Greg

Simon r
8th-December-2004, 02:12 PM
Why hadn't I thought of that? (No need to answer that :blush: ). Maybe we should start lobbying for such a workshop for his next trip, that means we might have to wait another year :sad:

I'm afraid I have nothing to report back from last night, (I could talk about the lesson, but that is way off thread). How useless am I? :blush: (You don't HAVE to answer that either.) Every now and then I said "I must go and watch Robert dancing." and a great track came on, and there was a fab dancer for me to dance with, and I, erm, spent the whole night dancing... Sorry!

Greg

Typical just you you you ...
I was looking forward to your report ....

jockey
9th-December-2004, 01:30 AM
[QUOTE=LyI find that I instinctively danced with some musicality for years when just dancing 'solo' at parties etc (otherwise you just shuffle from foot to foot, and dance every track the same, can't see the point in that myself!) but that I haven't transferred much of this to MJ. Anyone else find this? I suspect its because I am still learning and concentrating on following. Will I be able to merge my musical interpretation with following over time? I hope so![/QUOTE]On the firstpoint you make, Lynn, something similar: I use to go clubbing a lot and had a Michael Jackson style; if the musiic is quick or no one is to hand I sometimes 'go solo' on the side in a jive - a friend said "why dont you wiggle like that when you jive?" (implying it looked good, or better).

I merge it by separating occasionally and 'disco'ing with my partner (good ruse on the difficult fast sections, guys..); you will see competitors starting apart and gradually coming together having felt the beat sometimes and my partner and I do likewise in comps (its different to what most do and gets you noticed by the judges).

On musicality and leading: I reckon its onus on the guys here as they lead the dance and must therefore take a lion's share of the responsibility for the musicality; they can offer the lady a chance to do something by leading a break and then letting the lady gradually pick it up as she sees fit until he joins in (the Nina bodyrolling..e.g.,?). In conversation with the aforementioned dancer and judge (N) she once said to me after a comp "you did well on musicality - you hit every beat (meaning I hit the highlights in the music)". In social dancing its little things girls appreciate (that a judge will not see) and I play a little game sometimes where I'm 'the tease' (shooting glances, a little touch etc); I try to put something in there where music allows and play a game - the smile tells the girl its not sleaze...

Sheepman
9th-December-2004, 01:43 PM
I was looking forward to your report .... Sorreee :blush: hopefully there will be another opportunity for my research before Robert heads home ...

Greg

mick
1st-February-2005, 12:48 PM
There is a saying about abstract nouns, something about ..if you can't put it in a wheelbarrow, then it doesn't have an exact definition.
If you don't know what musicality is, then I suggest a study of Boney M.

Baruch
15th-February-2005, 01:28 PM
Musicality is an issue I'm trying to get to grips with. I've been doing MJ for just over a year now, and before that I'd never done any kind of dancing before, so it was all new territory for me.

I'm a musician (rhythm/lead guitar), and as such I have a good sense of rhythm, timing etc. When I'm playing, whether in a band or just for fun, I can tell when there needs to be a break in the music, or a variation in tempo, or a completely different style of playing, or a spot of improvisation.... whatever the song calls for. I have pretty good musicality when I'm playing the music, but not so great when I'm dancing to it. I can just about recognise a break when I'm dancing, and I try to mark them in some way, but I feel like I've hit a brick wall as far as musical progression goes.

As I dance in Cardiff, I'm fortunate to be able to watch Mark & Jackie dancing every week :worthy: among others, and I try to analyse how they do things, but there's a world of difference between watching others do it and doing it myself.

I know this has been covered before, but does anyone have any tips that I could take on board to improve my musicality when dancing?

CJ
15th-February-2005, 01:55 PM
Musicality is an issue I'm trying to get to grips with. I've been doing MJ for just over a year now, and before that I'd never done any kind of dancing before, so it was all new territory for me.

I'm a musician (rhythm/lead guitar), and as such I have a good sense of rhythm, timing etc. When I'm playing, whether in a band or just for fun, I can tell when there needs to be a break in the music, or a variation in tempo, or a completely different style of playing, or a spot of improvisation.... whatever the song calls for. I have pretty good musicality when I'm playing the music, but not so great when I'm dancing to it. I can just about recognise a break when I'm dancing, and I try to mark them in some way, but I feel like I've hit a brick wall as far as musical progression goes.


I disagree with you Baruch, but hope my disagreeing helps.

I, too, am a musician. You have described your playing, and it seems pretty clear to me you have musicality.

How to translate that musicality into practical dancing is the problem. (And I'm not the one 2 ask cos it took me years!!!!!!) The biggest single factor is confidence. You hear music, and you know something is required, but your dance experience doesn't (instinctively, YET) tell you what.

What did you do as a guitarist? U tried stuff. Maybe got it wrong every now and again, but you experimented. Is all you have to do here. Look around, see what you like and steal it. Try it. It may or may not work.

Read some of the threads on breaks, playing with tempo, etc... You have these skills already, its just a case of transfering these skills into your dancing.

Sheepman
15th-February-2005, 02:43 PM
but does anyone have any tips that I could take on board to improve my musicality when dancing? I would say the first thing is to lose all inhibitions about thinking you look stupid! This is the one I think I've nearly conquered, and what if you do really look stupid? At the very least it should make your partner laugh!!
If you're trying to lead moves that are interpreting the music, then your leading technique is going to need to be precise. I'm thinking in particular of an exercise that Amir did to James Brown's "I Feel Good." There is the repeated bit where the horns are going "ba-da da-da da-da da." The exercise (and I can't now stop myself from doing it whenever I hear that track) is getting your partner to do a slow and jerky turn corresponding to the music. It needs the right combination of a light touch, but with the correct use of tension and compression to lead this. Most partners wouldn't have a clue when I try this, but after I've done a similar jerky turn myself, then they can register that it makes sense.

Similarly, if you hear something that is repeated through the track, that you can do something to, don't worry too much that it may not be leadable, e.g. some footwork, or just a shoulder roll, if your partner has any sort of inkling what you're up to, then she will catch on for the 2nd or 3rd time that "bit" in the music comes up. She may just do her own thing, mirror what you're doing, or look on in disgust. Be prepared for all 3!

I think the best advice has to be loads of repetition, and to go to workshops on the topic, sadly they are few and far between. You have a big advantage in being able to watch Mark and Jackie, but don't necessarily think "how could I do that move" rather think, "what could I do at that point in the music.

Oh yes, another thing that is pretty important IMO, (unless you are a music and dance genius), if something is coming up in the music, and you know you're going to want to accent it, don't try to do it with some long complicated move, chances are you'll miss it altogether. The closer you get to the accent, the simpler your moves need to be so that you can time when you're going to strike that pose/give your partner space to do her thing/play with yourself /etc. :eek:

Greg

MartinHarper
15th-February-2005, 05:33 PM
(IMO) There are three parts to musical jiving. The first is being able to dance to music. For this, I practice solo dancing (on and off the MJ floor), and learn and practice strolls. The second is being able to dance to music while doing MJ. This, I think, is largely a question of guts and practice. The third part is being able to lead some crazy music-inspired stuff and have it work more than one time in ten. That means lead/follow workshops, musicality workshops, and a bunch more practice.

Razz
16th-February-2005, 11:01 AM
Speaking as a musician, watching from the stage, I am always impresssed by dancers that understand the structure of a tune, the phrase lengths, changes of mood etc. and make their routines fit well.

Baruch
16th-February-2005, 10:59 PM
I disagree with you Baruch, but hope my disagreeing helps.
You're free to disagree, and yes, it helps. :nice:


What did you do as a guitarist? U tried stuff. Maybe got it wrong every now and again, but you experimented. Is all you have to do here. Look around, see what you like and steal it. Try it. It may or may not work.
I shudder to think of some of the mistakes I made with the guitar! You're right though. I tried a few "new" (nicked) ideas last night after reading your post and they seemed to work OK, so I'll keep on experimenting.

Cheers!

Baruch
16th-February-2005, 11:04 PM
I would say the first thing is to lose all inhibitions about thinking you look stupid! This is the one I think I've nearly conquered, and what if you do really look stupid? At the very least it should make your partner laugh!!
I can relate to this one! Getting over that psychological hurdle is an issue for me, I think. Thankfully there are a few partners that I feel comfortable experimenting with, which helps.

Cheers for all the other advice too. I read your post and Ceroc Jock's before going dancing last night, and tried to put it into practice. It's going to take a while, I think, but then again I expected that. Rome wasn't built in a day.