Smoky Dance Floors - Where to find them :sick:

[Andy McGregor]

Within the "Smoking and Dancing Don't Mix" thread there's a growing list of venues that allow smoking. This thread is such a long one that it's hard to find the list of venues to avoid if you'd like to dance in a smoke-free atmosphere.

So, as a service to dancers I've started this thread which is specifically to name (and shame) the venues (and venue operators) where you can breathe cigarette smoke on the dance floor. Please feel free to add to this list, either by posting your addition here or by sending me a PM. So that all the venues are easy to find please copy and paste the whole list then add your venue to it. Also, please put the name of the organisation as that might influence things higher up if there's a big organisation behind the classes. This way only the last posting contains the up to date list and we can also remove venues as and when they ban smoking. And so that nobody is picked on we should keep this list in alphabetical order.

Here is the current list I've gleaned from the thread;

Ashtons - Ceroc
Bekhamstead - Ceroc
Bletchley - Ceroc
Bromley - Ceroc
Kempston - Ceroc
Northampton - Ceroc
Party Weekender
Twyford - Ceroc

Anyone notice that nearly all of them have something in common? Can anyone feel their cheeks start to glow, are they feeling any pressure to consider the health of their staff and customers yet?

[Lounge Lizard]

I was a Ashtons last night , I hate the smell of smoke and I thought it was fine there, not smokey at all - probably best you name and shame from first hand information rather than heresay

[stewart38]

.

So, as a service to dancers I've started this thread which is specifically to name (and shame) the venues (and venue operators) where you can breathe cigarette smoke on the dance floor.




At Berkhampsted as far as Im aware its in the bar area only, are you looking for a list where smoking is allowed in the bar area or dance floor ?

There is a difference and if you include bar area that list would grow big time.

Some bars are totally seperate to dance floor some are not ie open up on to dance floor

[Andy McGregor]

I was a Ashtons last night , I hate the smell of smoke and I thought it was fine there, not smokey at all - probably best you name and shame from first hand information rather than heresay

Just because you can not taste the pee in the pool doesn't mean that there's none there :wink:

I went to Ashtons recently, they instructed smokers to smoke down the left hand side of the dance floor as you look at the stage. Which part of that isn't first-hand information? :confused:

Not smelling smoke and knowing that a venue is a non-smoking venue are two different things. So, it isn't me that's got it wrong, but I'd hate to prove LL wrong - maybe he could ask them next time he visits.

If you are telling me that Ashtons have changed their policy we can chalk that up as a success for the anti-smoking campaign but, as far as I know - and I've just had it confirmed by an Ashtons regular, it is still permitted to smoke next to the dance floor, just not on all sides :sick:

[Andy McGregor]

At Berkhampsted as far as Im aware its in the bar area only, are you looking for a list where smoking is allowed in the bar area or dance floor ?

There is a difference and if you include bar area that list would grow big time.

Some bars are totally seperate to dance floor some are not ie open up on to dance floor

To use the swimming pool example. If there are two pools and they share the same water you will be exposed to the pee which enters at one end.

If the smoking section, bar or otherwise, shares the same space/air as the dancing it is an example of smoke and dancing being mixed - and I think that is what we really don't want. Smoking in a bar separated by 2 doors is completely acceptable and one door probably acceptable if the smoke isn't drawn into the room by the opening and closing of the door :sick:

[Andy McGregor]

An addition I've just received by PM - keep 'em coming :clap:

Ashtons - Ceroc
Bekhamstead - Ceroc
Bletchley - Ceroc
Boppin' Weekend Trinity Leroc (smoking table by the stage :sick: )
Bromley - Ceroc
Kempston - Ceroc
Northampton - Ceroc
Party Weekender
Twyford - Ceroc

.. anyone know if Rochester Ceroc is still a smoking venue?

[ChrisA]

I was a Ashtons last night , I hate the smell of smoke and I thought it was fine there, not smokey at all

I've been there more than once (only on Saturday nights) when it's been quite unpleasant too.

Chris

[MartinHarper]

Given stewart's comments, perhaps the master list might provide a little more detail as to the level of smoking, and how close it is to the dance floor?

Eg:
Ashtons - Ceroc - smoking permitted on one side of the dance floor.
Berkhampsted - Ceroc - smoking permitted in (seperate?) bar area
(etc)

On a side note, just because smoking is permitted, does not necessarilly mean that there is a "smoky dance floor". Equally, just because smoking is not permitted, does not necessarilly mean that the dance floor is smoke-free.

[Andy McGregor]

Given stewart's comments, perhaps the master list might provide a little more detail as to the level of smoking, and how close it is to the dance floor?

Eg:
Ashtons - Ceroc - smoking permitted on one side of the dance floor.
Berkhampsted - Ceroc - smoking permitted in (seperate?) bar area
(etc)


I think this is quite simple. If it's in the same room as the dancing it's a smoking venue. If there's a bar in the same room and smoking is allowed at the bar it's a smoking venue. If smoking is allowed in a different room or outside it's a non-smoking dance venue. It's the mixing of dancing and smoking that people object to, not the smoking itself, that's down to the choice of the individual.

Although we'd love it if our friends and family didn't smoke, of course :flower:

[Sheepman]

I think this is quite simple. :yeah:
I reckon your description is pretty foolproof.
I haven't been to Ashton's since the demolition squad moved in, but whenever I did go, I found it very unpleasantly smoky.

Greg

[lindyloo]

If you are telling me that Ashtons have changed their policy we can chalk that up as a success for the anti-smoking campaign but, as far as I know - and I've just had it confirmed by an Ashtons regular, it is still permitted to smoke next to the dance floor, just not on all sides :sick:[/QUOTE]

Just to confirm that nobody at Ashtons is allowed to smoke NEXT to the dance floor. It is correct that smoking is still permitted down one side but at the tables (there is a wide walkway between the tables and the dance floor).

We are unable to ban smoking at Ashtons completely as the management smoke and on the basis that they usually charge £5000 or more to rent the hall out, I'm not going to push it! However we have now limited it to just the one side and we have put up signs and do make announcements every week.

What I would say is that in a venue as big as Ashtons, and it's probably the biggest dance floor in London hired by a dance organisation, with the highest ceilings and a large balcony area on the 2nd floor it hasn't been a problem (especially in our new room) In fact I'd go as far to say that I've not had one complaint (and I can show you our comments book that we leave out every week)

I would agree that in church, village, town halls and the smaller venue it is more of an issue. Hence the reason we do not allow it at Harrow, Watford, The Casbah and Twickenham. Ashton's is very different.

[Andy McGregor]

Just to confirm that nobody at Ashtons is allowed to smoke NEXT to the dance floor. It is correct that smoking is still permitted down one side but at the tables (there is a wide walkway between the tables and the dance floor).

I love Lindyloo but I'm afraid this argument is a bit like saying you can only pee in one lane of the swimming pool and saying that so long as you leave a one lane gap you won't be swimming in pee.

However, she does have a point about the size of the venue and that diluting the smoke. The question is, why not ban smoking? All but a handful of smokers are happy to go outside and have their fags, I sure the staff could do that too, they do it in hospitals - and, as the survey on here shows most dancers would prefer a non-smoking venue.

So, I still can't see a vilid excuse for Astons to remain a smoking venue. Can anyone else?

[jivecat]

Wellingborough - Ceroc Central.

There were ashtrays on all the tables- an invitation to smoke, and the people on the table next to ours made full use of them. We all went home last night with smoky hair and clothes, not to mention lungs, they still smell of smoke now. Absolutely unnecessary as the building is a working men's club with at least 2 other separate bars where people could have gone to smoke.

[Andy McGregor]

Wellingborough - Ceroc Central.

There were ashtrays on all the tables- an invitation to smoke, and the people on the table next to ours made full use of them. We all went home last night with smoky hair and clothes, not to mention lungs, they still smell of smoke now. Absolutely unnecessary as the building is a working men's club with at least 2 other separate bars where people could have gone to smoke.

I've had a PM about Welling Ceroc being a smoking venue - is this the same place as Wellingborough?

Also, I've had a PM telling me Ginger Jive at Greenham allow smoking - does anyone know which other Ginger Jive venues allow smoking? Please let me know as at the moment the list of smoking venues looks like a vendetta against Ceroc. This is not the case and may be a function of them having the most venues. Also, I think there are some other Ceroc Kent venues that haven't been listed. The last time I went to Rochester it was very smoky but that was a year ago and things might have changed.


The up to date list of smoking venues looks like this.

Ashtons - Ceroc
Bekhamstead - Ceroc
Bletchley - Ceroc
Boppin' Weekend - Trinity Leroc
Bromley - Ceroc
Greenham Dances - Ginger Jive
Kempston - Ceroc
Northampton - Ceroc
Party Weekender
Twyford - Ceroc
Wellingborough - Ceroc.

[MartinHarper]

I still can't see a valid excuse for Astons to remain a smoking venue. Can anyone else?

There's one in the post you're responding to:


We are unable to ban smoking at Ashtons completely as the management smoke and on the basis that they usually charge £5000 or more to rent the hall out, I'm not going to push it!

Fancy donating £5000 to Ashton's to cover the increased costs?

[Andy McGregor]

There's one in the post you're responding to:



Fancy donating £5000 to Ashton's to cover the increased costs?

I'm just listing the MJ venues that allow smoking. Ashtons allow smoking, the venue gets listed.

Ceroc may not be able/willing/brave enough to ask the Management of Ashtons to smoke outside - but there's no reason why they can't make not smoking a condition of entry for their cusomers - none that I can see.

[ChrisA]

but there's no reason why they can't make not smoking a condition of entry for their cusomers - none that I can see.
Can't rep you again yet, but... :yeah:

[Whitebeard]

As it happens I'm a smoker although, in my case, it's minature cigars and strangely enough I find the smell of ordinary cigarettes quite objectionable. But I realise that to others they may be equally offensive and am quite happy, and always do, to go outside the dance hall to indulge my bad habit. It's a chance to cool off as well and if I miss a really good track that's my bad luck.

Go outside for a breath of fresh air, smoke a cigar, how stupid can you get !!

That said, it's the sheer stuffiness and heat generated by so many gyrating bodies that gets to me.

[lindyloo]

[QUOTE=Andy McGregor]I love Lindyloo
Ooo, why thankyou, I didn't know you felt like this, I'll ban smoking altogether from today!

[Andy McGregor]

I love Lindyloo
Ooo, why thankyou, I didn't know you felt like this,

Doesn't everyone? :confused: :flower:


I'll ban smoking altogether from today!
:yeah:

[Andy McGregor]

Another addition provided via PM. It seems this is yet another Ceroc venue. Come on guys, there must be other non-Ceroc weekly smoking venues. Also, I'm still awaiting confimation of the smoking status of Ginger Jive venues.

Ashtons - Ceroc
Bekhamstead - Ceroc
Bletchley - Ceroc
Boppin' Weekend - Trinity Leroc
Bromley - Ceroc
Greenham Dances - Ginger Jive
Kempston - Ceroc
Northampton - Ceroc
Party Weekender
Peterborough - Ceroc
Twyford - Ceroc
Wellingborough - Ceroc.

[lindyloo]

I'll talk to the management this week about poss allowing smoking only at the back side of the bar area. I think that's the most they will agree to, though I will try for an overall ban - believe me it's not like dealing with the owners of a church hall! If that's ok with them will you take it off your list please as I don't like being right at the top!

[Andy McGregor]

I'll talk to the management this week about poss allowing smoking only at the back side of the bar area. I think that's the most they will agree to, though I will try for an overall ban - believe me it's not like dealing with the owners of a church hall! If that's ok with them will you take it off your list please as I don't like being right at the top!

I must admit that of all smoking venues listed Ashtons is the one I'd rather not list. The venue is fab, the ceiling is so high and the circulation so good that the smoke seems to disappear, the people are great, Lindyloo is lovely, etc, etc. But, I think it would be unfair on the similar venues that have mad the painful transition to leave Ashtons off the list.

I'm so pleased that Lindyloo is taking this list seriously - how about a few more people doing the same? Why not whisper something in hubby's ear like - "no intimacy 'til you ban smoking from all Ceroc venues" :devil:

[Zebra Woman]

Why not whisper something in hubby's ear like - "no intimacy 'til you ban smoking from all Ceroc venues" :devil:
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:

:rofl:

[Andy McGregor]

Just had it confirmed by PM that Welling and Wellingborough Ceroc are 2 different places. But they are both smoking venues :sick:

For ease of identification I've colour coded the list of smoking venues by organisation. There does seem to be a lot of orange.


Ashtons - Ceroc
Bekhamstead - Ceroc
Bletchley - Ceroc
Boppin' Weekend - Trinity Leroc
Bromley - Ceroc
Greenham Dances - Ginger Jive
Kempston - Ceroc
Northampton - Ceroc
Party Weekender
Peterborough - Ceroc
Twyford - Ceroc
Welling - Ceroc
Wellingborough - Ceroc.

[lindyloo]

Why not whisper something in hubby's ear like - "no intimacy 'til you ban smoking from all Ceroc venues" :devil:[/QUOTE]

With all the new things happening in ceroc at the moment, he has little time to consider either!

[Andy McGregor]

With all the new things happening in ceroc at the moment, he has little time to consider either!

A cry for help from a damsel in distress. Any guys out there willing to do the right thing for lindyloo :devil:

[Gareth]

Hi Andy,
We see from this thread that the recent “Boppin Bristol” event has been listed as a smoking event. Although as far as we are aware, there has been no issue from the many dancers who attended this weekend. The BAWA has high ceilings, is a very big space and has excellent air-conditioning. :nice:

But we are aware of the health issues involved and the anti social stigma attached to smoking. We have therefore decided to ban smoking from all Trinity organised dances. This will commence Friday 10 December 2004 with our Xmas Party @ PBA Ballroom.

I would appeal to anyone who attends our dances who has a problem to contact us directly; we can then take immediate steps to find a solution. We take great care to ensure that all our dancers have a fantastic time at all our events.

Thank you Andy for bringing this thread to light and therefore highlighting the issues that need addressing. This Forum is definitely the arena to address problems within the Jive scene. :clap:

Please remove us from your hit list and we hope others will follow our lead.

Regards

Gareth Rees - Trinity :waycool:

[Zebra Woman]

We take great care to ensure that all our dancers have a fantastic time at all our events.

And now you've proved it Gareth.

RESPECT :worthy: :cheers: :clap:



Please remove us from your hit list and we hope others will follow our lead.


I hope so too....and..... SOON PLEASE :flower: :flower: :flower:

[Andy McGregor]

Hi Andy,
We see from this thread that the recent “Boppin Bristol” event has been listed as a smoking event. Although as far as we are aware, there has been no issue from the many dancers who attended this weekend. The BAWA has high ceilings, is a very big space and has excellent air-conditioning. :nice:

-snip-

I would appeal to anyone who attends our dances who has a problem to contact us directly; we can then take immediate steps to find a solution. We take great care to ensure that all our dancers have a fantastic time at all our events.

Firstly, if all your customers had no problem with your smoking policy I wouldn't have had an email from one of them :wink: And secondly, it takes a lot of guts to complain to an organiser about his event.


But we are aware of the health issues involved and the anti social stigma attached to smoking. We have therefore decided to ban smoking from all Trinity organised dances. This will commence Friday 10 December 2004 with our Xmas Party @ PBA Ballroom.

Thank you Andy for bringing this thread to light and therefore highlighting the issues that need addressing. This Forum is definitely the arena to address problems within the Jive scene. :clap:

Please remove us from your hit list and we hope others will follow our lead.

Regards

Gareth Rees - Trinity :waycool:

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Well done Gareth.

If only all jive organisations were as responsive and concerned about the health and well being of their customers. There is a saying about it taking longer to change the course of bigger vessels. But it takes the same amount of time to make the decision to change course - just a bit longer for the course change to take effect. Come on those other companies how about a course correction before you're foced to do something by H.M. Government. Maybe one of the 'captains' would like to explain why they're still keeping their smoking policy ...

Ashtons - Ceroc
Bekhamstead - Ceroc
Bletchley - Ceroc
Bromley - Ceroc
Greenham Dances - Ginger Jive
Kempston - Ceroc
Northampton - Ceroc
Party Weekender
Peterborough - Ceroc
Twyford - Ceroc
Welling - Ceroc
Wellingborough - Ceroc.

[jockey]

I well remember a recent visit to Bromley with Paul Lucy. I was changing into the trusty two-tones when this bloke sat down at my table and lit up a fag..it was INCOMPATIBLE with the whole dance scene as is drunkeness, say.
Will keep my eyes peeled on this one. I've just given up my job as a betting shop manager in protest at smoking (amongst other reasons). :yeah:

[Andy McGregor]

Just had a PM naming Luton as a smoking venue.

Here is the latest list.

Ashtons - Ceroc
Bekhamstead - Ceroc
Bletchley - Ceroc
Bromley - Ceroc
Greenham Dances - Ginger Jive
Kempston - Ceroc
Luton - Ceroc
Northampton - Ceroc
Party Weekender
Peterborough - Ceroc
Twyford - Ceroc
Welling - Ceroc
Wellingborough - Ceroc.

[Jive Brummie]

Andy, I think it's a wee bit unfair that you're allowing the rudeness of a few guys to predjudice people against Ceroc, and then you go on to make the generalisation that smokers have no manners and are not gentlemen...

Don't get me wrong, i agree that smoking has no place in, on or near a dance floor, but i get the feeling that this is a bit of an anti Ceroc campaign, and before you say it isn't and quote that post where you've said the very thing....i've already seen it.

Some pedant's amongst us might turn this entire argument around and say, well, it looks like Ceroc are the only ones offering freedom of choice. As has already been mentioned, just because a venue allows smoking, it doesn't necessarily mean the dancers there are on 100 fags a day, it just means they can if they want to.

And while i'm moaning (and preparing myself for a flaming), i'm sure i remember a thread not so long ago about naming and shaming. And wasn't it the general concensus, that people didn't really want it to happen. That it wasn't the done thing? Why is this any different? In effect, you are trying to deter people from going to a particular venue because of how you feel...in effect you are trying to take the money out of the franchisee's pocket, the franchisee being the person who is trying to please everyone all of the time. You wouldn't TWOC the tools out or a workmans van, why should you be able to do it here? Whether it is your intention of doing this or not, this is the way it's making me feel, so who's to say others aren't as well?

Andy, i agree with you wholeheartedly about banning smoking at dance venue's, but please give people more credit. Are we all not adult enough to make up our own minds without having to pander to what appears to be a one man smear campaign. And before you rip into a public tirade of how me and you don't really see eye to eye and post a 'past history' of argument's we may or may not have had, i'd like to finish this rather abrupt post by saying....sometimes i wish you'd just keep your opinions to yourself, and let everyone else stand up for their own rights....sorry.

JB :cheers:

[ChrisA]

sometimes i wish you'd just keep your opinions to yourself, and let everyone else stand up for their own rights....sorry.

Can't agree with you, James, on this one. There's free speech here, thank gawd. No one has to read what anyone writes, but we've all got the Franck-given right to post stuff that others may disagree with.

And I think it is totally pants if the culture at a particular venue - I don't care if it's Ceroc or someone else - is such that people are smoking next to the dance floor, and prefer to smoke rather than dance. It's their right to do so, if not explicitly banned by the club, but it is pants. So I don't think it's unreasonable to draw attention to it.

It's just Andy's way of drawing attention to things; we're all used to it here :innocent: :whistle:

And as for others standing up for their views - well that's their freedom, too. :flower:

Chris

[Gus]

It's their right to do so, if not explicitly banned by the club, but it is pants. So I don't think it's unreasonable to draw attention to it.ChrisRight ... in ODA style I'm going to satart a thread naming and shaming ALL venues that allow airsteps, where the teachers are up their own a**es, the crew are badly trained and the dance floors are overcrowded :mad: :mad: :mad: ...... urrrrgh ... hold on, it might be easier if I just list the exceptions to the above :wink:

[Andy McGregor]

Andy, I think it's a wee bit unfair that you're allowing the rudeness of three guys from luton to predjudice people against Ceroc, and then you go on to make the generalisation that smokers have no manners and are not gentlemen...

There is nothing against Ceroc in this thread. It's all about venues that allow smoking. The fact that so many of those venues are Ceroc venues is not my fault and I'm amazed that anyone could think that I have something against Ceroc (although I must admit I do have something against their competitions).

All I've done is pass on the PMs I've received from dancers and preserve their anonymity. People should be able to make an informed choice - and part of the information they need to make that choice is whether or not a dance venue puts their health at risk by allowing smoking.

So, Jive Brummie, you have a lot to say on this subject, please defend venues that allow smoking.

[Andy McGregor]

Right ... in ODA style I'm going to satart a thread naming and shaming ALL venues that allow airsteps, where the teachers are up their own a**es, the crew are badly trained and the dance floors are overcrowded :mad: :mad: :mad: ...... urrrrgh ... hold on, it might be easier if I just list the exceptions to the above :wink:

This is a thread for naming and shaming venues that allow smoking. If Gus has anything else to criticise venues for I would rather he did it somewhere else. This is a single issue debate, stay with the programme, please.

[Andy McGregor]

without having to pander to what appears to be a one man smear campaign.

Wrong!

This is many people saying they don't like smoke with their dancing. Look at the Smoking and Dancing Do Not Mix thread and see how a massive proportion of the dancing population don't want to breathe second-hand cigarette smoke.

And, this list is not compiled by one man, it is the result of many people sending me PMs telling me that venues are disgustingly smoky. Think again Jive Brumie and post something that comes closer to reality - or do you think that venues will change without a bit of promting?

Or maybe Jive Brummie could suggest an alternative way to get venues to ban smoking.

[Andy McGregor]

i'd like to finish this rather abrupt post by saying....sometimes i wish you'd just keep your opinions to yourself, and let everyone else stand up for their own rights....sorry.

JB :cheers:

I agree that people have the right to make their venues as smoky as they like. And they have the right to defend that choice on this forum. But, for some reason they haven't defended that right - maybe there is no defence ...

.. at least none that anyone has been prepared to post.

[Zebra Woman]

Andy, i agree with you wholeheartedly about banning smoking at dance venue's, but please give people more credit. Are we all not adult enough to make up our own minds without having to pander to what appears to be a one man smear campaign. And before you rip into a public tirade of how me and you don't really see eye to eye and post a 'past history' of argument's we may or may not have had, i'd like to finish this rather abrupt post by saying....sometimes i wish you'd just keep your opinions to yourself, and let everyone else stand up for their own rights....sorry.

JB :cheers:
Glad you agree about banning smoking from dance venues James. :clap: I hope you are lucky enough to dance in a smoke free environment yourself. :flower:

I can't say I agree with the rest of your post though. :( IMO This is not a one man smear campaign. There are loads of us who agree with Andy. I'm not sure why so many of the venues are Ceroc....Are LeRoc and other independent dancers enjoying a smoke free world ??? (I do hope they are) or are they too shy to PM him? Lofty's Jive at Ferndown Dorset is smoky - add that to the list, does that help?

Andy has organised this thread but he is absolutely not alone.

That said, smoke doesn't stop me from visiting a venue, but it is a factor. FYI all my local venues are smoky, so if I dance near to home I have to put up with smoke:sad:

I am glad we have The Smoky Venues list. It helps me and my friends (who also hate smoke) to make an educated choice about where to dance when we drive out of our area. :clap:

Knowledge is power.

IMO This is the thread where people who don't like to dance in smoky venues stand up for their right to clean air. :flower: :flower: :flower:

ZW

[Lynn]

That said, smoke doesn't stop me from visiting a venue, but it is a factor.
:yeah: For me it is a greater factor than the music, DJ, or even the teacher - (most places don't have much smoking during the class so I can always go to the class only).


Knowledge is power. :yeah: Its frustrating to go somewhere, pay to get in, only to have to leave early because its too smoky. This has happened to me several times.

[Sheepman]

Are we all not adult enough to make up our own minds I certainly hope so, and I can't see that from what Andy has said that we are suddenly all going to go with the generalisation that all smokers are rude and uncaring. I agree with Chris and Alison, and I don't see this as a smear campaign against Ceroc, after all, most of us know that all the Ceroc Scotland venues are non-smoking don't we?

Another venue that maybe could be added to the list, but I've never been, and I'm unlikely to ever go, even though it is my closest venue. So I would need someone to confirm that it is a smoking venue. That is The Grand at Clapham (Ceroc), the venue is a smoky night club, so I would be surprised if it is non-smoking for dancing, but has anyone been that can confirm this?

Greg

[Jive Brummie]

Let's get one thing straight....


I don't smoke.

Right now that's out of the way. My problem with your anti-'venue' list is the fact that you are specifically trying to deter people from going to them because of a value you hold dear to you, and one that i agree with. There is no place for smoking on, in or near a dance floor (hmmm deja vu?). My 'problem' Andy is the way in which you're selflessly going about telling people that if they don't want to end up reaking of smoke, stay healthy and get accepted for a dance whenever they ask then they should stay away from venue X? And i think that is bang out of order. Yes you're right about the smoking thing (I'll say it again) but to try and stop people going to a venue is like nabbing the tools out of the workmans van (as i said earlier) Do the franchisee's who run these venue's know that you're painting their venue's in a rather discoloured light? And if they do are they happy about it? I'm not sure they would be.

It'd be like me saying....(for example)

If you want to go to a friendly dance venue, with a good, large open floor, and dance with people who treat you as their equal in a welcoming enthusiastic manor....then don't go to Hipsters....!

Not very nice is it?

[filthycute]

Recently i made reference on a thread concerning a person who was dancing inappropriately and also injured a dancer whilst doing a busk. Unfortunately my post was immediately removed before too many people could see it. why is it that you can publicly shame a venue, but not a dangerous dancer?????? :angry:

That question goes to whoever it may concern.......

Maybe we should be having doubts about this thread, i think it would be far better for everyone concerned if this thread was deleted.

If not please feel free to send any PM's my way and i'll promptly name and shame on your behalf. Seems like it's all the rage nowadays :clap: :(

Venues and names accepted

Ta

filthcyute x x

[philsmove]

Firstly I would like to thank Andy for being instrumental in getting virtually all the Bristol MJ venues smoke free
But statements like


Girls, I recommend you avoid Luton Ceroc if you'd like to stay fresh smelling, protect your health and get a YES when you ask a guy to dance.
Go too far

especially as they do not appear to be first hand experiences

Isolated incidents of bad behaviour occur at all events

If you are upset OK, say so, but put your name to the complaint

No anonymous posts via PMs Please

Bouncing babies excepted

[ChrisA]

It'd be like me saying....(for example)

If you want to go to a friendly dance venue, with a good, large open floor, and dance with people who treat you as their equal in a welcoming enthusiastic manor....then don't go to Hipsters....!

Not very nice is it?
No it's not very nice.

But you'd have every right to say it, if it was your perception. And people would argue with you if they felt strongly enough.

You can argue with things people say, if you disagree with them, but you can't gag them, even if it's Andy :whistle:

That's the nature of the beast here. People talk about all kinds of things; some of them are more informed than others, some of them have more axes to grind than others, and sometimes it's harder than at others to separate out the wheat from the chaff.

You just have to develop the ability to recognise the source of what's said, and evaluate it accordingly, forming your own opinion of what is written.

As for slagging off Hipsters, well, it's funny you should say that - cos the slagging was pretty constant at one time. Admittedly you came on a really crap night, but at least you were there. Much of the criticism came from people that never had.

Nailing my colours to the mast, I think it's fine to list the venues where smoking is allowed. One of my favourites, Twyford, is sometimes horrible in the bar area, which is not separated from the dance floor. Running the gauntlet of the smoke to get a drink is most unpleasant, and it's the worst thing about an otherwise fab venue.

I also think it's fine to draw attention to an aspect of the culture at a particular venue which you think is poor for any reason. And making it into a personal recommendation, as is Andy's way, is his right IMHO. No one has to agree with it, and they are free to post contrary views if they wish.

What I would say is, it's not fine to use the contents of someone's PM, even if unattributed, without permission, though, since there's a risk of offence if the details given narrow things down enough for people to be identified.

Chris

[ChrisA]

why is it that you can publicly shame a venue, but not a dangerous dancer??????
Probably because no individuals are named.

A specific allegation levelled at a specific individual is often the sort of thing that's very subjective, and public defamation of character is a very dangerous game to get into, with all sorts of legal, moral and social minefields to get snarled up in.

Whereas if someone is slagging off a venue for something, it's usually something that is easily verified (such as "smoking is allowed") or just down to someone's opinion (such as "I hate the music at venue X").

Getting into public defamation of individuals is a really bad idea, even if you're quite sure that person Y did a really bad thing. Much better to contact the venue organiser if you feel really strongly about it, IMHO, and of course warn your friends off personally.

Chris

[Magic Hans]

...
On a side note, just because smoking is permitted, does not necessarilly mean that there is a "smoky dance floor". Equally, just because smoking is not permitted, does not necessarilly mean that the dance floor is smoke-free.
:yeah: :yeah:




I think this is quite simple. If it's in the same room as the dancing it's a smoking venue. If there's a bar in the same room and smoking is allowed at the bar it's a smoking venue. If smoking is allowed in a different room or outside it's a non-smoking dance venue. It's the mixing of dancing and smoking that people object to, not the smoking itself, that's down to the choice of the individual.

Although we'd love it if our friends and family didn't smoke, of course :flower:

Sorry, I disagree. Sure if a kid pees in a double olympic size swimming pool, it makes little difference, except to the chap half way across who dies, cos he has an allergy. If everyone pees in the jacuzi .... is that the same?

Someone who really can't abide any smoke at all will find your lists very useful :clap:
Sadly, being fairly tolerant of smoke; a slight whiff doesn't effect me. When I feel it at the back of my throat it does. The list serves little purpose, except when tempered by others comments! [or defended by venue organisers]

Still, overall, nice thread!

:clap: :clap:

Ian

[Andy McGregor]

but to try and stop people going to a venue is like nabbing the tools out of the workmans van (as i said earlier) Do the franchisee's who run these venue's know that you're painting their venue's in a rather discoloured light? And if they do are they happy about it? I'm not sure they would be.

This is a false comparison. The naming of these venues as smoking venues is not the same as stealing someone's working tools. If you steal something you break the law. And you remove their means of making a living - at least until they buy new tools.

What we have here is a lobby. We are trying to get people to change what they do in the name of good health and well-being of our friends who dance. One of the ways to get businesses to change is to do something that has the potential to reduce their trade. Rather like the naming of supermarkets that profit from child labour or aparteid - less people shop there so the supermarket changes what it does. The difference is that we are telling our friends where a venue is smoky so they can make their own decision about attending that venue. And the venue owner can make their own decision about banning smoking - this could be a commercial decision or it could be a health and safety decision. But that decision is for the venue organiser to make.

Now lets judge the success of this thread. Already we've had a dance organisation decide to ban smoking from all it's venues. And we've got Lindyloo investigating a change to the smoking policy at Ashtons :clap:


It'd be like me saying....(for example)

If you want to go to a friendly dance venue, with a good, large open floor, and dance with people who treat you as their equal in a welcoming enthusiastic manor....then don't go to Hipsters....!

Not very nice is it?

If this is Jive Brummie's honest opinion then I see no reason why he shouldn't post this observation. And I see no reason why others would say that they'd had a different opinion. That's what debate is all about.


What I would say is, it's not fine to use the contents of someone's PM, even if unattributed, without permission, though, since there's a risk of offence if the details given narrow things down enough for people to be identified.The people sending me PMs are doing so with the intention that I post part of the contents - there is an implicit permission in sending me a PM and saying something like 'another one for your list'. And I'm being careful to avoid that person being identified with any clue in my post - apart from the fact that the person sending the PM went to that particular smoky venue.

[Andy McGregor]

Sorry, I disagree. Sure if a kid pees in a double olympic size swimming pool, it makes little difference, except to the chap half way across who dies, cos he has an allergy. If everyone pees in the jacuzi .... is that the same?

This is an odd comparison, but I don't think that the two are the same. To take it back to smoking, if one person smokes in a non-smoking venue that is wrong. If everyone smokes in a smoking venue that is right. So maybe everyone peeing in a 'peeing permitted' Jaccusi would be O.K. - although I wouldn't be one of the people in it :sick:

[Andy McGregor]

Recently i made reference on a thread concerning a person who was dancing inappropriately and also injured a dancer whilst doing a busk. Unfortunately my post was immediately removed before too many people could see it. why is it that you can publicly shame a venue, but not a dangerous dancer?????? :angry:

That question goes to whoever it may concern.......

Maybe we should be having doubts about this thread, i think it would be far better for everyone concerned if this thread was deleted.

If not please feel free to send any PM's my way and i'll promptly name and shame on your behalf. Seems like it's all the rage nowadays :clap: :(

Venues and names accepted

Ta

filthcyute x x

Now I know why this thread is getting so much abuse from Jive Brummie. He's angry about something else.

If you see something you think should be deleted you can report a thread or a post to the moderators, they can decide it that thread or post should be deleted. And, if they decided to delete this thread they would tell me why in a PM. I've had a few posts deleted and at least one thread disappear very quickly. I've been given a reason by Franck and have always seen his point of veiw - which is always very reasonable, even if I don't agree with it :flower:

[Sheepman]

Someone who really can't abide any smoke at all will find your lists very useful Exactly, and as someone who is so affected by smoke that I will cross the road, if someone walking 10 metres in front of me is smoking, then the list is very valuable.

Greg

[Lounge Lizard]

I do not know how many ceroc/non ceroc venues allow smoking, so cant comment on that topic.
As this is a Ceroc forum, activly publicised and promoted by Ceroc I would guess that there are far more Ceroc dancers viewing this forum plus there are far more ceroc venues in the UK than any other organisation - hence the fact your list has a lot of ceroc venues named by forum members, on it Andy.

Question what are your motives for this thread?
Are you trying to get a smoke free MJ scene throughout the UK - Very Admirable.
Are you trying to deter dancers from going to certain of your named venues if smoking is not banned - and reducing their income.
Are you trying to get venues like Ashtons transfered to (say) a local smoke free church hall if the club owners refuse to ban smoking and numbers drop. :sad:

Finding a venue to hold an MJ night with good dance floor, plenty of parking, bar, stage, affordable hire cost and regular availability - is very very hard

Andy as a dance organiser and coach you now have 4 regular venues, if the management suddenly advised they would permit smoking at (say) shoreham would it be an easy decision to close the venue. would it be easy to find an alternative...no (but no doubt you woud takes such action.

I have not been to many venues on your list but Ashtons, Bromley and Warmwell are great dance nights/weekends - I would hate to see them affected by reduced numbers as a result of your campaign.

To perhaps put a different viewpoint on this (from someone who hates smoking I add)
Given we do not live in an ideal world what one of the following would you forego on a good MJ night
Good dance floor, non sticky, smooth, sprung etc.
Stage for the teachers
Non smoking venue
Safe location (ie not in a very rough area)
ample parking
Bar
Adequate size dancehall (so it's not overcrowded with 60 dancers)
Good Accoustic's (venues where the music echo's)

Teachers and DJ's/music dont count on above list cos they are not an intrinsic part of the venue.

Personaly smoking would be third on my list of above to forgo
I could do without the bar, put up with dodgy accoustics (possibly)

Andy I once described you (on this forum) as a Duracel Bunny banging away at his drum, I think you are ready for another battery up your A**e with this topic :wink:
Peter

[Lory]

This isn't a thread is about people's opinions on smoking, right or wrong. We've already got another thread AND a poll about that. :o

This thread, merely states facts, about what venues allow it, full stop!

I think it's fair to state hard facts, like....

NON smoking/Allows smoking? along with.....
licensed bar?
Price of entry?
parking facilities?
Time of finish?
Near to tube? etc.


Informed decisions can be made from this information, e.g. some people may decide to go to a venue that stays open till 1am, over one that shuts at 12 :clap:

Some people may decide ease of parking is a major factor and others prefer a smoke free zone. And you never know, some smokers maybe greatful for the information! :rolleyes:

But I wouldn't agree with posting an official thread based on 'opinion'......

Good or bad music
brilliant or rubbish teaching
the standard of dancers
friendliness of taxi's
rude people at venue

Although, some may disagree :whistle:

[David Franklin]

Given we do not live in an ideal world what one of the following would you forego on a good MJ night
Good dance floor, non sticky, smooth, sprung etc.
Stage for the teachers
Non smoking venue
Safe location (ie not in a very rough area)
ample parking
Bar
Adequate size dancehall (so it's not overcrowded with 60 dancers)
Good Accoustic's (venues where the music echo's)

Personaly smoking would be third on my list of above to forgo
I could do without the bar, put up with dodgy accoustics (possibly)Good way of putting things into perspective, though obviously other people's priorities will differ from yours. The other thing I'd say is that although the smoke hating part of me agrees with Andy's very black/white definition of a smoking venue, in practice the amount of smoke that reaches the dance floor does make a difference. If one or two people smoke in the bar area, and that is 20+ feet away from the dancefloor, with good ventilation, that really wouldn't bother me at all. If there's a 'smoking culture' with people standing by the dance floor puffing away, that would be much more of a problem.

As a concrete example, I never noticed a problem with smoke on the dancefloor at Ashtons. At the bar, yes, but not on the dancefloor. [On t'other hand, I haven't been to Ashtons since the big redevelopment]. I do appreciate there are people who are less tolerant...

Dave

[Lory]

As a concrete example, I never noticed a problem with smoke on the dancefloor at Ashtons. At the bar, yes, but not on the dancefloor. [On t'other hand, I haven't been to Ashtons since the big redevelopment]. I do appreciate there are people who are less tolerant...

Dave
Well, as you may have gathered, I hate smoke but I'm a regular at Ashtons! :nice:

As has been said before, the venue is huge with high ceilings etc. And the smoking is being kept to one area now! So it's hardly noticeable :clap:

[Andy McGregor]

Question what are your motives for this thread?

I think most people know what my motives are. To guess them and post your guesses here is to put words into my mouth that I've never spoken and not even thought. One might start to guess at the motives of LL for such an act :wink:

I have not been to many venues on your list but Ashtons, Bromley and Warmwell are great dance nights/weekends - I would hate to see them affected by reduced numbers as a result of your campaign.

Is LL advocating that we keep the fact that these venues allow smoking a secret? That means people would turn up and be surprised and upset that they have no choice but to breathe smoke with their dancing.

The preferred result of this campaign is that those venues decide to ban smoking - it couldn't be simpler.

And I think I'd prefer to see reduced numbers because a few people have stayed away because they'd prefer not to breathe smoke rather than not go dancing because they're in a hospital bed with a disease caused by smoking :tears:


To perhaps put a different viewpoint on this (from someone who hates smoking I add)
Given we do not live in an ideal world what one of the following would you forego on a good MJ night
Good dance floor, non sticky, smooth, sprung etc.
Stage for the teachers
Non smoking venue
Safe location (ie not in a very rough area)
ample parking
Bar
Adequate size dancehall (so it's not overcrowded with 60 dancers)
Good Accoustic's (venues where the music echo's)

Teachers and DJ's/music dont count on above list cos they are not an intrinsic part of the venue.

Personaly smoking would be third on my list of above to forgo
I could do without the bar, put up with dodgy accoustics (possibly)

This is the thread where we list venues with a smoky dance floor. Has LL got a venue to add to the list? So why's he here?


Andy I once described you (on this forum) as a Duracel Bunny banging away at his drum, I think you are ready for another battery up your A**e with this topic :wink:
Peter

Now we know why he's here :tears:

Back on-topic. Some people seem to be trying to hijack this thread. It's a list of places where dance floors are smoky. If you don't like the list or think it should be removed ask the moderators to do so. If you want to discuss smoking and dancing there is another thread to do that - and if you want to throw insults at me you can start a new thread called Andy is our Aunt Sally :flower:

[Andy McGregor]

As a concrete example, I never noticed a problem with smoke on the dancefloor at Ashtons. At the bar, yes, but not on the dancefloor. [On t'other hand, I haven't been to Ashtons since the big redevelopment]. I do appreciate there are people who are less tolerant...

Dave

I agree with David, Ashtons seems OK when you're dancing, at least it did the one time I went. The other venue I'd put into this category is Croydon. People smoke in the bar area at Croydon which has an open archway to the dance area - but the smoke doesn't seem to drift through to the dance area. Maybe it's to do with ventilation and movement of air in a certain direction but you just can't smell smoke when you're dancing - so I haven't listed Croydon because, in my experience, it doesn't have a smoky dance floor.

If Ashtons regulars were to tell me that the dance floor at Ashtons hasn't got a whiff of smoke no matter where you dance on it I'd be delighted to take it off the list too.

[Sheepman]

Question what are your motives for this thread?

Your list of motives doesn't include the one that I would see as most likely:-
To inform punters where they may be affected by smoke, so they have more information on which to base their choice of venue.

Not that Andy needs me to speak for him of course! :devil:

Peter, your list of reasons for choosing a venue is all sensible stuff, and has been discussed before elsewhere, but as has already been pointed out, the point of this thread is that it is about the single issue. I think attempts have been made before to produce some sort of list of favourite venues, but it always becomes too subjective.

As an example of how this thread would affect me, on the 18th I have a choice of 2 great venues, good music, lots of friends at both, excellent dance floors and acoustics, but Twyford, which is one of the possibilities, allows smoking, so I won't be there.

Greg

[Zebra Woman]

What I would say is, it's not fine to use the contents of someone's PM, even if unattributed, without permission, though, since there's a risk of offence if the details given narrow things down enough for people to be identified.

Chris :yeah:I agree with Chris here. Luton is smoky is all that needs to be said, anything else starts to paint a scarily clear picture :eek:

All the same, keep up the good work Andy :clap:

ZW :flower:

[Andy McGregor]

Just had another PM to increase the list - and it's not Ceroc either.

Here is the latest list.

Ashtons - Ceroc
Bekhamstead - Ceroc
Bletchley - Ceroc
Bournemouth - Mojive
Bromley - Ceroc
Greenham Dances - Ginger Jive
Kempston - Ceroc
Luton - Ceroc
Northampton - Ceroc
Party Weekender
Peterborough - Ceroc
Twyford - Ceroc
Welling - Ceroc
Wellingborough - Ceroc.

[Jive Brummie]

Now I know why this thread is getting so much abuse from Jive Brummie. He's angry about something else.



Andy, it's obvious you can hear what i'm trying to say....but can you do me a favour and actually try and listen....

This thread is a great one. It has everything to make it a memorable one. It's got lively debate with pro's and con's. It's got good and bad and now it's got a martyr prepared to die for the cause. Have a pat on the back.

When i said "I agree with you about smoking venue's"... it's because i agreed with you. It's a pretty straight forward concept, but one you seem to have missed.

What i want you to listen to is...

By telling people to stay away from a venue for reason X, Y or Z, you are actively trying to take the money out of a franchisee's pocket.

Most people decided naming and shaming was not the way forward. Naming and shaming a venue however...well that's a different matter. I don't agree with the idea that if you name and shame a venue you're not affecting an individual, because you blatantly are. Say for example, through your list Andy, you reign over a one man victory...well done. The venue loses people...potentially so many it has to close down. Nice one, you've just lost the franchisee his/her income, the DJ his job, along with the venue manager and the teacher.

It is this kind of extreme occurance that is fuelled by lists like these, IMHO. Yes, you are providing a 'public service', thankyou, but let people make up there own minds and please keep the "Stay away" comments to yourself.

Fortunately for me, all Ceroc venue's in Scotland are non-smoking, that means i'll still get to teach, the DJ still has a job along with the venue manager and Franck can earn an income....hoorah, Christmas is back on.

J :angry:

p.s. i was going to write this post in pretty colours to make you take notice of it all, but i thought that was a futile attempt at getting you to look and listen, when i know all you'll do is selctively pick out the bits you want, to make me look like a dic£head...cheers

[jivecat]

Much better to contact the venue organiser if you feel really strongly about it, IMHO, and of course warn your friends off personally.

Chris

I contacted Phil Roberts about smoky Ceroc Central venues and received a reasonable reponse in reply. Seeing as venue organisers know that a government imposed ban is on the cards anyway, putting some pressure on them might help them to decide to ban it a little earlier.

[Lynn]

If a venue loses customers because people are avoiding it because it is smoky, then I think its up to the venue management to listen to what its customers want and rethink their smoking policy.

As to losing money - what about the money I lose when I go somewhere, pay to get in and have to leave again because its smoky? Are the venue organisers going to give me a refund on my petrol and entrance fee? No, because its my choice. Like its their choice to have a smoking or non-smoking dance venue.

IMO this thread is about informed choice. People are being given the opportunity to make an informed choice about whether to visit a venue that has as smoking policy.

I do think that rather than simply, 'naming' venues, they should also be contacted and advised that their policy of allowing smoking near/beside the dance floor is an issue for some dancers, especially dancers who are current, former or potential customers. Then the venue managers should be able to make an informed choice about whether to change their smoking policy.

[Zebra Woman]

I contacted Phil Roberts about smoky Ceroc Central venues and received a reasonable reponse in reply. Seeing as venue organisers know that a government imposed ban is on the cards anyway, putting some pressure on them might help them to decide to ban it a little earlier.

What was Phil's response?

[Andy McGregor]

What i want you to listen to is...

By telling people to stay away from a venue for reason X, Y or Z, you are actively trying to take the money out of a franchisee's pocket.

Yes, that is exactly what I hope the franchisee will think. At the moment the reason I keep being given to keep a venue smoking is the fear that the franchisee/venue owner will lose money as the smokers will go elsewhere. The smokers are holding the venue manager to ransom - a bit like we're doing here. The difference is that we hold the moral high ground. We're trying to improve the health and safety of dancers - the smokers that are saying they'll take their money elsewhere are the ones who are insisting they can smoke, irrespective of who else breathes their second-hand smoke (please note I am only concerned with the smokers who insist on smoking next to the dance floor - the considerate ones are already smoking elsewhere :flower: )

The other thing to remember is that the franchisee/venue manager has a choice. They can always make not smoking in the same room as the dancing a condition of entry into the venue for all of their customers - it's really that simple. So, it's not me that's putting a venue at risk of a decline in numbers, it's the venue owners insistence that they continue to allow smoking. All we're doing on here is making sure that people know which venues have a smoky dance floor.

[Jive Brummie]

:rolleyes: hmmmmmmmmmm

[Andy McGregor]

:rolleyes: hmmmmmmmmmm

I was wondering what this means - anyone willing to make something up or is Jive Brummie going to tell us?

[Andy McGregor]

I've had a PM about Welling Ceroc being a smoking venue - is this the same place as Wellingborough?

Also, I've had a PM telling me Ginger Jive at Greenham allow smoking - does anyone know which other Ginger Jive venues allow smoking? Please let me know as at the moment the list of smoking venues looks like a vendetta against Ceroc. This is not the case and may be a function of them having the most venues. Also, I think there are some other Ceroc Kent venues that haven't been listed. The last time I went to Rochester it was very smoky but that was a year ago and things might have changed.


The up to date list of smoking venues looks like this.

Ashtons - Ceroc
Bekhamstead - Ceroc
Bletchley - Ceroc
Boppin' Weekend - Trinity Leroc
Bromley - Ceroc
Greenham Dances - Ginger Jive
Kempston - Ceroc
Northampton - Ceroc
Party Weekender
Twyford - Ceroc
Wellingborough - Ceroc.I've received negative rep for this post. The comment he left said 'idiot', nothing else. Maybe he could tell us all what is idiotic about this particular post :confused:

[djtrev]

I have to agree with JiveBrummie on this one.Naming the venues that are smoking/non smoking is fine;giving potential customers the chance to make their own minds up;but to actively discourage people from going to a venue for whatever reason is in my opinion bang out of order.
I have friends who have been banned from all Ceroc venues because they decided to organise a freestyle dance.Obviously there is more to this tale than just the facts that I have given here,but hopefully you will get the point I am trying to make.
By encouraging people NOT to go to these venues you are trying to restrain the franchisee's trade and in my opinion that is far worse.It would possibly not bother you, but if all these venue operators got together,even Ceroc UK,and decided to ban you,you could hardly blame them.Could you?

[Gus]

I have friends who have been banned from all Ceroc venues because they decided to organise a freestyle dance. [SNIP] By encouraging people NOT to go to these venues you are trying to restrain the franchisee's trade and in my opinion that is far worse.It would possibly not bother you, but if all these venue operators got together,even Ceroc UK,and decided to ban you,you could hardly blame them.Could you?Mixed feelings about this post. ceroc have had a track record of banning people for any competitive action (warranted or otherwise). Andy's point about informing people about venues allowing smoking, however, I see as valid ... I think you are right though in saying "DON’T DANCE THERE" is going too far. DavidB has made a good point that the commercial organisations at the end of this all are there for the money and so they are legitimate targets for any feedback and campaign which focuses on their negative attributes (ok ... I'm vacillating ... what do you expect from an ODA).

I think that we have to be careful to walk a fine line between the commercial realties of Jive Clubs (they are not charities) and emotional terrorism where we try to force clubs to do what WE want by mob action.

[Andy McGregor]

I have to agree with JiveBrummie on this one.Naming the venues that are smoking/non smoking is fine;giving potential customers the chance to make their own minds up;but to actively discourage people from going to a venue for whatever reason is in my opinion bang out of order.

You are forgetting that we all have a choice, 58% of dancers have said they hate smoky dance floors and 16% have said that they will not go to a smoking venue.

How will that 16% get to know which venues have smoky dance floors? If they went to a smoking venue unknowingly it would spoil their night. Now they know where not to go because there is a list. So, djtrev is right this list is actively discouraging people from going to certain venues. That the majority of the venues on this list are Ceroc venues is not my doing, it's the venue owners that choose to allow smoking - and that's how they get on the list.

What I don't understand is why djtrev thinks this naming of venues which allow smoking is 'bang out of order'. Perhaps he could expand on his point.


By encouraging people NOT to go to these venues you are trying to restrain the franchisee's trade and in my opinion that is far worse.

Far worse than what? Far worse than risking your health and well being? Far worse than stinking of smoke after a nights dancing? Far worse than expecting your staff to work in an environment that puts their health at risk? Is the composing of a list really 'far worse' than all those things?

What I'm doing is encouraging people who run venues to ban smoking. And it's working :clap:


It would possibly not bother you, but if all these venue operators got together, even Ceroc UK, and decided to ban you, you could hardly blame them. Could you?

Think how that would make Ceroc look. They ban someone from their venues because he cares about the health of their customers more than they do themselves. And, of course, it's not just me, this list is not the work of just one person, are Ceroc UK going to ban us all? That would be just short of Ceroc UK deciding to ban non-smokers, which would be a solution to their dilemma :whistle:

Please note, this is not a campaign trying to get Ceroc to change, it's a campaign to get the world of modern jive to change to a smoke free zone. That Ceroc venues feature so much should not be seen as an anti-Ceroc campaign - it's simply because so many Ceroc venues allow smoking.

[Dan Hudson]

To balance this.... any chance of a thread showing venues that ban smoking??

or has this already been done??

it would give a balanced view for people to pick venues.

Dan

:cheers:

[Gus]

To balance this.... any chance of a thread showing venues that ban smoking??

or has this already been done??I think that both Ceroc clubs and all the Blitz clubs in the North banned smoking some time back. Healthy dancers up North! :grin:

[Andy McGregor]

To balance this.... any chance of a thread showing venues that ban smoking??

or has this already been done??

it would give a balanced view for people to pick venues.

Dan

:cheers:

I think this would be great. It has crossed my mind that we should have a smoke-free venues thread. All the organisers that have gone through the pain of banning smoking would be bound to post and so would the dancers that are pleased to dance in clean air. Can someone else manage that one, please. Volunteers.

The good news is that it's unlikely a venue will change from being non-smoking :clap:

[djtrev]

Come on Andy for heavens sake! Thats the second reply that you have not grasped.Read the post again or shall I make it a little more simple :wink: :wink:

Naming venues-excellent

Encouraging boycott-bad idea(bang out of order)this is far worse than my
friends organising freestyle night who were then banned.

No Ceroc wouldnt ban you for your beliefs but might ban you because you are actually suggesting to people not to attend these venues.

I notice that you apparently visit a number of venues.What would you do if the shrine that is Hipsters, and is on your list,were to decide that they didnt want you to frequent their premises.

[MartinHarper]

In the interests of informed choice, is this a list of venues with smoky dance floors, or a list of venues where smoking is permitted in the same room as the dance floor?

[Lynn]

In the interests of informed choice, is this a list of venues with smoky dance floors, or a list of venues where smoking is permitted in the same room as the dance floor? Is there a massive difference? Smoke travels pretty far and 85% of second hand smoke is odourless and invisible, so if there is smoking in the same room, even if you can't see/smell it on the dance floor, you will be breathing some of it in while you are dancing.

[MartinHarper]

Is there a massive difference?

There is to me. *shrug*

[Andy McGregor]

Come on Andy for heavens sake! Thats the second reply that you have not grasped.Read the post again or shall I make it a little more simple :wink: :wink:

Naming venues-excellent

Encouraging boycott-bad idea(bang out of order)this is far worse than my
friends organising freestyle night who were then banned.

No Ceroc wouldnt ban you for your beliefs but might ban you because you are actually suggesting to people not to attend these venues.

I notice that you apparently visit a number of venues.What would you do if the shrine that is Hipsters, and is on your list,were to decide that they didnt want you to frequent their premises.
What does djtrev think the list is for? It is not an academic exercise. I think my reply was quite clear: the orgniser needs to feel he will lose more business by keeping smoking going in his venue than banning it. That means non-smoking dancers who care about their health should stay away. What other reason does djtrev give to think the list is a good thing?

[spindr]

Actually Andy,
I think you are missing a trick -- at the moment you have a small number of smoking venues listed -- it would be interesting to have the non-smoking ones in a similar locality also listed.

I believe then that those dancers who wish to be able to smoke in the same room will be able to locate a venue that caters to their needs, and those dancers who do not wish to be in the same room as smokers can also make an informed decision.

E.g.
Greater London - smoking venue

Ashtons - Ceroc


Greater London - non-smoking venue

Ealing Town Hall - Hipsters


Hopefully, each venue would then atract those dancers who appreciate their particular unique selling points.

SpinDr.

[Chef]

OK, Here Goes. This is my first time on a web forum so I really hope I don't break any ettiquette rules.

Andy has started a useful resource for dancers in that he is gathering together objective information so that dancers can make an informed choice. It appears that some respondants are not happy that Andy appears to be encouraging dancers to not go to smokey venues. I have to say that the information gathered should make smokers happy because they now know where they can go and smoke and dance and meet others who like to do the same. I really cannot be encouraged to go or not go a place by another person because of the views that he/she holds about this subject. I really feel that anyone that has enough intelligence use a computer and get through the registration process for this website has enough smarts to be able to see data for what it is and make their own decisions.

I don't believe anyone should ban Andy from their venues because he has provided accurate information about thier venue and he has encouraged others to make their views about smoking known to the venue holder either verbally in the first case, or by voting with their feet if that fails.

I know I may only be talking about the south east here (a lady was recently bemoaning the scarcity of venues near Peterborough) but there really are enough venues around to not have to go to one where there is something you really object to.

Andy really hates smoking and so do I but some really like it. What I would like is accurate objective information on all aspects of a venue so that I can make an informed choice. Smoking is just something that gets up Andys nose (pun intended - sorry) that he has done something about it.

Please don't shoot the messenger.



Everything I learn teaches me how little I knew.

[Andy McGregor]

Andy has started a useful resource for dancers in that he is gathering together objective information so that dancers can make an informed choice. It appears that some respondants are not happy that Andy appears to be encouraging dancers to not go to smokey venues. I have to say that the information gathered should make smokers happy because they now know where they can go and smoke and dance and meet others who like to do the same.

Now this is an interesting perspective that I hadn't considered. But it makes perfect sense now that Chef has pointed it out (have some rep :clap: ).

From their posts it seems that djtrev and Jive Brummie think that I shouldn't be encouraging dancers to stay away from venues with smoky dance floors - that is their opinion and they can hold it, no matter how wrong I think it is. But as Chef points out, the list is also encouraging smokers to attend venues that allow smoking.

One thing that djtrev and Jive Brummie seem to think is that I don't understand their argument. I do understand it, I just don't agree with it. They think I shouldn't be encouraging people to stay away from smoky venues. The reasons they think I shouldn't encourage people to stay away are that they think it might result in the closure of a venue and the teachers and DJs being put out of a job (isn't djtrev a DJ? Isn't Jive Brummie a teacher?). My argument is that people should make their own mind up based on the information provided, but I have given the reasons why I think they should avoid breathing cigarette smoke - just in case they didn't already know the reasons.

It is up to the organiser to balance the moral, health and financial considerations to decide to ban smoking or not. I think that any sensible organiser would ban smoking from their venue if he/she thought that there was a chance that failing to do so would cause their numbers to drop so low they would need to close. So I think that djtrev's and Jive Brummie's scenario of this list causing the closure of venues is far-fetched and unlikely to happen in the real world.

And, somewhere out there are venues which have more people in them because they allow smoking - just think how smoky the last smoking venue in an area will be. It's almost worth opening a few smoking venues in Scotland to cater for this need :devil:

[Magic Hans]

Now this is an interesting perspective that I hadn't considered. But it makes perfect sense now that Chef has pointed it out (have some rep :clap: ).

From their posts it seems that djtrev and Jive Brummie think that I shouldn't be encouraging dancers to stay away from venues with smoky dance floors - that is their opinion and they can hold it, no matter how wrong I think it is. But as Chef points out, the list is also encouraging smokers to attend venues that allow smoking.

...

Nice post, and in my humble, subjective and quite possible bigotted opinion, your most balanced yet on the subject :cheers:

My suspicion, (please flame me if I'm wrong) is that djtrev, and Jive Brummie agree about the raising the topic, but not about the "agressive" nature of how it has been put across at times.

Personally, I've found some of the posts too evangelical for my liking, which simply serves to obscure some of the very good points being made.

Nice bit of balance helps everyone, imo.

:flower: Ian :flower:

[Chef]

[QUOTE=Andy McGregor]Now this is an interesting perspective that I hadn't considered. But it makes perfect sense now that Chef has pointed it out (have some rep :clap: ).

From their posts it seems that djtrev and Jive Brummie think that I shouldn't be encouraging dancers to stay away from venues with smoky dance floors - that is their opinion and they can hold it, no matter how wrong I think it is. But as Chef points out, the list is also encouraging smokers to attend venues that allow smoking.

QUOTE]

Thank you Andy for the Rep. As this is my first day on a web forum I have no idea what you are talking about but it sounds nice anyway.

I am of the same opinion as you regarding smoking. I also dislike being exposed to it. Having said that I can see why Jive Brummie and DJ Trev are getting upset. I feel you should restrict yourself to stating your case (ie that you do not like smoke and therefore places that allow your unwilling exposure) and provide information as to which venues currently allow smoking in contact with non smokers. Since the current situation is that smoking venues are filled with a) smokers, b) people who don't care enough to not go there c) people that don't have or know about a nearby non smoking venue you can only address the needs of those people in group c).

I don't think DJ Trev and Jive Brummie should worry about your information. If they find that their venues are empty once their punters are informed of what choices are available to them then that can only be because they are not providing their punters with what they truly want. Good businesses find out what their customers want. Bad businesses don't and go to the wall as a result. There is always room for a good niche market provider as I hope "Cool Catzs" will find.

There is little point being evangelical to smokers. They have an addiction that is just as hard for them to break (if they even wanted to) as my own addiction to chocolate (Second only to Rena). Often with an addiction the ony real choice you have is the first time you partake. Personally I think it is very public spirited of smokers to indulge in something that means they contribute lots of tax money and pension funds and then pops them off in short order before they have a chance to benefit from either (I really think my dry sense of humour will get me into trouble here).

It would be of great benefit to all if all aspects of a venue could be stated and widely advertised so that people could make informed choices. It is a problem that some data will be subjective (like state of the floor, quality of music and sound system, teaching ability etc) but theatre shows, resturants, books, hotels, even items for sale on Amazon and the like are all subject to punter review (I am so not volounteering for this job) and it seems to work. So if a venue/company doesn't like the review they can choose to a) address the critism and improve b) do nothing c) ban the reviewer(s) (the reviewer can state this and the punters can draw their own conclusions).

As a quick aside, I was once at a very lovely south London venue and the DJ/owner played a track that had almost cleared the floor and was, IMO undancable. When I said this to the DJ I was told that "modern Jivers will dance to absolutely anything". He then proceeded to illustrate his point with the next 4 tracks. For me, this showed such a contempt for the paying punter that I have never returned. All it showed was that beginner MJers will dance to absolutely anything since they are there. I hear that he is finding that they won't pay to dance to bad music too often.

Maybe it is time for dance venues to be reviewed like resturants. The good get more business and the bad go to the wall. Thats just business - nothing personal.


The more the learn the more I understand how little I know.

[ChrisA]

Personally I think it is very public spirited of smokers to indulge in something that means they contribute lots of tax money and pension funds and then pops them off in short order before they have a chance to benefit from either (I really think my dry sense of humour will get me into trouble here).

:rofl:

I'd rep you more but I can't yet :)

Chris

[Whitebeard]

Personally I think it is very public spirited of smokers to indulge in something that means they contribute lots of tax money and pension funds and then pops them off in short order before they have a chance to benefit from either (I really think my dry sense of humour will get me into trouble here).
No, that's just being realistic. However, I've enjoyed 13 years of retirement (early, courtesy to that Thatcher woman) despite being a smoker. It's the luck of the (genetic) draw aided by the skill of the surgeons and there are many who, considerabley younger, have succumbed to the ravages of a considerably shorter life-span. Life is a lottery, and our choice of lifestyle undoubtedly has less effect than we might hope. I rejoice that, in the twilight years, music and its interpretation through dance has found a place and that the the body, though starting to fail, still responds to a sufficient degree.

[Jive Brummie]

Nice post, and in my humble, subjective and quite possible bigotted opinion, your most balanced yet on the subject :cheers:

My suspicion, (please flame me if I'm wrong) is that djtrev, and Jive Brummie agree about the raising the topic, but not about the "agressive" nature of how it has been put across at times.

Personally, I've found some of the posts too evangelical for my liking, which simply serves to obscure some of the very good points being made.

Nice bit of balance helps everyone, imo.

:flower: Ian :flower:

:yeah:

[Andy McGregor]

My suspicion, (please flame me if I'm wrong) is that djtrev, and Jive Brummie agree about the raising the topic, but not about the "agressive" nature of how it has been put across at times.

So, we all agree. All except the venue owners who have smoky dance floors - and the smokers who smoke next to the dance floors. And they're doing something that has been proved to kill - it says so on the packet!!!

Isn't a bit of hysterical agression justified in these circumstances? :confused:

What we need to remember is that change such as this requires someone to stand up and get hysterical - remember 'Votes for Women'? It seemed a completely mad concept at the time but now it's normal. I'm sure that clean air in public places will be quite normal in 50 years time. And the harder we push the more likely that day is to dawn in our lifetimes.

N.B. Two days ago I got the news that a friend of mine who used to dance is dying of cancer and has days to live - since then I've been wandering around in shock. I missed a flight because I forgot my passport, I left half my MJ CDs, shaver, contact lenses, black and white shoes, etc in the luggage rack on a train and I've probably forgotten loads of other things I don't even know about. She isn't dying from smoking related disease, but it's made me think how important this campaign is - among many other things :tears:

Let's get this straight, SMOKING KILLS. It kills real people, people we know, people we love. It's as simple as that. We need to support our friends who smoke to help them to quit. I'm about to lose a friend who enriches my life, she's always happy, bright and friendly, spending much of her time laughing when we danced. Very much like most people we know who we dance with. IMHO we should do everything we can to help our friends live a long and healthy life - and that includes encouraging them to quit smoking.

[Zebra Woman]

I have to say that the information gathered should make smokers happy because they now know where they can go and smoke and dance and meet others who like to do the same.

Yes of course there will be 'others who like to do the same' but there will also be a vast majority of 'OTHERS who would rather they did it in another room' :angry:

Oh dear...does that mean the smokers will be convening at the Wicksteed T Dance this afternoon :tears:

I'm going to go there and put up with the smoke , because on the plus side DJ Rob Ambridge played such fab tunes last time, there will be loads of old friends, tea and scones.... I wish I didn't have to though. :tears:

Very sad to hear about your friend Andy :hug:

Alison :flower: :flower: :flower:

[MartinHarper]

Isn't a bit of hysterical agression justified in these circumstances? [...] Change such as this requires someone to stand up and get hysterical.

Requires?


Smoking in the UK slowly declined during the 21st century, eventually becoming extinct with the 2046 No Smoking Bill. This was achieved by many things: scientific research, changing attitudes to risk, nicotine replacement therapy, and the legislation enacted in the early 2000s that banned smoking in public places . However, it is fair to say that these factors would have had little effect, had it not been for the aggressive hysteria of McGregor on the Ceroc Scotland website.

If I recall correctly, one of the factors cited by young people who take up smoking is the opportunity to rebel against parents and society. Is there a danger that in being too evangelical, while having the very best of intentions, we may end up being counter-productive?

[Andy McGregor]

Requires?

Would women have got the vote without the hysteria?

Would the Poll Tax have been scrapped without the massive hysteria of a vocal minority? (which, IMHO, resulted in the introduction of an even more unfair system - accepted because it had been around for a long time).

There are many examples of change from the status quo, but I can't think of any that weren't as a result of someone somewhere standing up for change. These things do not happen by chance, they need a few people to stand up for something they believe in. And that person had to shout very loud because there were so many people shouting him/her down with accompanying accusations of hysteria or madness.

We all know it makes sense to ban smoking from dance halls so why is Mr Harper defending it? Of course the organiser has the right to do what he likes and I would defend that right. But, we have the right to say that he or she is wrong to do so.

So, to get back on thread, where else is smoky? It can't just be those venues we've listed so far.


If I recall correctly, one of the factors cited by young people who take up smoking is the opportunity to rebel against parents and society. Is there a danger that in being too evangelical, while having the very best of intentions, we may end up being counter-productive?
This logic is flawed. If we stopped telling our kids what is right on this premise they would have nothing to rebel against - but it is our duty to guide the young. IMHO one of the reasons the young rebel is to test the status quo. And sometimes something fails that test. Besides, maybe the young will see their elders dying of lung cancer and heart-attacks and decide to rebel against that.

What am I talking about? I AM young? I was a rebel against smoking when I was a teenager and I'm still one now :waycool:

So, to get back on thread, where else is smoky? It can't just be those venues we've listed so far.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Smokers are also stupid. see here (http://sites.ninemsn.com.au/minisite/testaustralia/06082002/smokinghabits/default.asp). Remember, 82.5% of all statistics are provably true :).

[Andy McGregor]

Smokers are also stupid. see here (http://sites.ninemsn.com.au/minisite/testaustralia/06082002/smokinghabits/default.asp). Remember, 82.5% of all statistics are provably true :).

Although the smokers scored lower than the non-smokers they still scored above average - which must always be 100.

What that survey measured was the IQ of those people taking that particular test. There was obviously some hurdle they had to take that meant everyone taking the test was above average IQ.

Speaking personally, I don't think smoker's intelligence has anything to do with their habit. I've no idea what makes people continue to smoke in the face of all the evidence. Smokers would have to be very, very stupid to fail to understand why you should quit - therefore everyone would quit if IQ was a factor in smoking.

Anyone got any idea why smokers continue killing themselves? :tears:

[jivecat]

[QUOTE=Andy McGregorIsn't a bit of hysterical agression justified in these circumstances? :confused:

[/QUOTE]

Not really- I think smoking will be banned fairly soon in most dance venues by means of calm, reasoned debate and persistent pressure being applied. Hysterical aggression only puts people's backs up and makes them more likely to dismiss anti-smoking campaigners as joyless crackpots, IMHO. NOT that I think they are, I hasten to point out.

Has Kettering been added to the list? I didn't notice it at the time but when I got into the car last night I realised my coat reeked of smoke.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Has Kettering been added to the list? I didn't notice it at the time but when I got into the car last night I realised my coat reeked of smoke.

Thats only because you're so hot you're smouldering babe ;)

[Magic Hans]

Would women have got the vote without the hysteria?

Would the Poll Tax have been scrapped without the massive hysteria of a vocal minority? (which, IMHO, resulted in the introduction of an even more unfair system - accepted because it had been around for a long time).
:yeah:
And sure, in the UK we are, I believe, a little reticent in coming forward to express how we feel and push for it. However, the question of balance is a far trickier one. Someone's enthusiasm may galvanise one person into action and put someone else off!! ... as Aesop once mentioned many eons ago "Trying to please all of the people all of the time, simply results in pleasing noone any of the time!" .... was he right?? Dunno. He was a smarter chap than me though .... and I'm with him on this one.


There are many examples of change from the status quo, but I can't think of any that weren't as a result of someone somewhere standing up for change. These things do not happen by chance, they need a few people to stand up for something they believe in. And that person had to shout very loud because there were so many people shouting him/her down with accompanying accusations of hysteria or madness.

Shouting loudly .... or quietly(!!), funnily enough! .... as in one of Ghandi's favourite lines "If they here not your call, walk alone, walk alone."

In the contest between the rock and the stream, the stream always wins ... not by strength or power, but by persistence! [I believe there's a Calvin Coolidge quote about that somewhere]

Persistence (http://www.k12tlc.com/persist.htm)

Ian

[Zebra Woman]

Add Kettering to the list of smoky venues.....I've just had to wash every single thing I wore last night and I have a deep voice and headache today :angry: .

It was a fab night great music and fab dancers some from miles away :clap: nearly perfect. Just one problem :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:

ZW :sad:

[Dreadful Scathe]

And sure, in the UK we are, I believe, a little reticent in coming forward to express how we feel and push for it.

Indeed, except maybe for the famous petrol blockade, anti-war demos, anti/pro fox hunting demos, fathers protesting for rights to their children, nursery nurse strikes, anti-gm demos, abolish third world debt demos..etc...etc...ALL of these within the last few years ;)

[Simon]

We all know it makes sense to ban smoking from dance halls so why is Mr Harper defending it?

Didn't think he was defending it, just offering some sage words on the potential problems of achieving change. :confused:

[jivecat]

Thats only because you're so hot you're smouldering babe ;)

(Sound of fluttering in a dovecote)

Well. DS!!! (Simper) I'm afraid you don't know how right you are! :rofl:

[jivecat]

.... as in one of Ghandi's favourite lines "If they here not your call, walk alone, walk alone."


Ian

Just remind me .... did Ghandi do hysterical aggression?

[Magic Hans]

Just remind me .... did Ghandi do hysterical aggression?


[Hate to go off thread .... but]

hmmmm .... sounds to me like a bit of a leading question, yer 'onor!

[stewart38]

.

I've no idea what makes people continue to smoke in the face of all the evidence. Smokers would have to be very, very stupid to fail to understand why you should quit - therefore everyone would quit if IQ was a factor in smoking.

Anyone got any idea why smokers continue killing themselves? :tears:

Its called addiction ? Why do we have drinkers and drug takers who kill themselves through it are they 'stupid' ?

[Andy McGregor]

Its called addiction ? Why do we have drinkers and drug takers who kill themselves through it are they 'stupid' ?

I think that for some people this might be true. But you need to ask which is the lesser of two evils, withdrawal symptoms or 8 years knocked off your life expectancy? As I said, you don't need to be especially bright to do the maths. There is something else that keeps them smoking as well as the addiction - anyone have an idea what it is?

[SilverFox]

I think that for some people this might be true. But you need to ask which is the lesser of two evils, withdrawal symptoms or 8 years knocked off your life expectancy? As I said, you don't need to be especially bright to do the maths. There is something else that keeps them smoking as well as the addiction - anyone have an idea what it is?Being an ex smoker who smoked 3 packets a day for 17 years, I have been helping friends - and anyone who will listen to me :blush: -quit ever since I stopped.

It is not the addiction that keeps people smoking. Within 72 hours of stopping over 90% of the nicotine in your body has gone. A very short and painless withdrawal. It is a combination of fear and brainwashing that keeps smokers on the slippery slope. Before I stopped (using Allen Carr's Easy Way To Stop Smoking) I obviously knew all the dangers associated with smoking, yet genuinely believed that I would never be able to stop. We are conditioned - by tobacco companies, by other smokers (the worst :angry: ), by manufacturers of gum, patches etc. -into thinking that it is a mammoth task with severe withdrawals, but it's not. When I stopped I was working in the bar trade surrounded by smokers 12 hours a day and getting drunk 5 nights a week as well. Nowadays I feel no animosity towards smokers, I just feel a bit sorry for them.

Another issue is that more women than men use smoking as an emotional crutch. It is a source of support and comfort in a whole host of situations. Men predominately use it as a social crutch, therefore finding it easier to stop.

[Whitebeard]

There are many examples of change from the status quo, but I can't think of any that weren't as a result of someone somewhere standing up for change. These things do not happen by chance, they need a few people to stand up for something they believe in. And that person had to shout very loud because there were so many people shouting him/her down with accompanying accusations of hysteria or madness.
But this sort of evangelism can get out of hand and degenerate into violence, viz a viz the extremes of the animal rights movement.

[stewart38]

(using Allen Carr's Easy Way To Stop Smoking) I obviously knew all the dangers associated with smoking, yet genuinely believed that I would never be able to stop. We are conditioned - by tobacco companies, by other smokers (the worst :angry: ), by manufacturers of gum, patches etc. -into thinking that it is a mammoth task with severe withdrawals, but it's not. When I stopped I was working in the bar trade surrounded by smokers 12 hours a day and getting drunk 5 nights a week as well. Nowadays I feel no animosity towards smokers, I just feel a bit sorry for them.

Men predominately use it as a social crutch, therefore finding it easier to stop.

Did it work for the drinking :sick:

[SilverFox]

Did it work for the drinking :sick:Yessshhh... :cheers:

[Zebra Woman]

Yessshhh... :cheers:
:rofl: Like it

[Lounge Lizard]

I think most people know what my motives are.
....snip....
The preferred result of this campaign is that those venues decide to ban smoking - it couldn't be simpler.
....snip....
This is the thread where we list venues with a smoky dance floor. Has LL got a venue to add to the list? So why's he here?

Andy reason for my asking is I really hate smoking and think any atempt to get rid of smoking in public places is great

I do not DJ pubs, Club, Weddings etc. cos I wont breath passive smoke, and I dont want to go home smelling like an ashtray, when the goverment brings in the no smoking bill then I will be chasing lots of private work.

I used to dance on the R&R circuit, much faster dancing, lots of energy required and a thick haze of smoke in all the venues - I hated it and was glad to get to a smoke free MJ venue.

Your list IMHO is misleading - I have been to Ashtons lots lately and I did not realise it was a smoking venue till I read it on your post, it has never had a smokey atmosphere when I have been there, this applies to some other venues.

However I have been to dance nights/classes where the hall is non smoking but the bar is in a seperate room and smoke filled, so if i want a drink I have to breathe it in....should these be on your list (taking in our own drinks is not allowed)

What about the smoke free venues that have access thru a smoking area - I remember at Camber the smoking area USED to be outside the main entrance to the dance hall - so we ran the gauntlet of smoke (This has now been changed, but is a good example of what I mean)

There are many venues that currently permit smoking within the hall or in adjacent areas USED by the dancers.
Should these venues be added to your list?

My body does not diffrenciate between smoke breathed in on a dance floor, near a dance floor, in a room next to a dance floor or on the way to the dance floor.
But to add ALL the venues that have (or allow) smoking in the above circumstances would significantly increase your list and be unfair to the organisers involved.

For this reason I think the naming of venues on this thread is misleading and perhaps unfair.

LL
Ok flame away :innocent:

[Andy McGregor]

Andy reason for my asking is I really hate smoking and think any atempt to get rid of smoking in public places is great

I do not DJ pubs, Club, Weddings etc. cos I wont breath passive smoke, and I dont want to go home smelling like an ashtray, when the goverment brings in the no smoking bill then I will be chasing lots of private work.

I used to dance on the R&R circuit, much faster dancing, lots of energy required and a thick haze of smoke in all the venues - I hated it and was glad to get to a smoke free MJ venue.

Your list IMHO is misleading - I have been to Ashtons lots lately and I did not realise it was a smoking venue till I read it on your post, it has never had a smokey atmosphere when I have been there, this applies to some other venues.

However I have been to dance nights/classes where the hall is non smoking but the bar is in a seperate room and smoke filled, so if i want a drink I have to breathe it in....should these be on your list (taking in our own drinks is not allowed)

What about the smoke free venues that have access thru a smoking area - I remember at Camber the smoking area USED to be outside the main entrance to the dance hall - so we ran the gauntlet of smoke (This has now been changed, but is a good example of what I mean)

There are many venues that currently permit smoking within the hall or in adjacent areas USED by the dancers.
Should these venues be added to your list?

My body does not diffrenciate between smoke breathed in on a dance floor, near a dance floor, in a room next to a dance floor or on the way to the dance floor.
But to add ALL the venues that have (or allow) smoking in the above circumstances would significantly increase your list and be unfair to the organisers involved.

For this reason I think the naming of venues on this thread is misleading and perhaps unfair.

LL
Ok flame away :innocent:

Long post: any venues to add to the list?

[Sheepman]

My body does not diffrenciate between smoke breathed in on a dance floor, near a dance floor, in a room next to a dance floor or on the way to the dance floor. :yeah:
Peter, I agree with nearly everything in your post, but I still think it is fair to list those venues where no smoking is not the policy, regardless of whether or not it is usually a problem in that venue. It is a simple and definable thing, and can help people like me avoid potentially smoky venues. And I would also be interested in knowing those venues where entrance ways and bars are smoky, but I realise this may be rather more subjective.. (At Ealing for instance, it can be unpleasantly smoky at times outside the building.) If I find a bar is too smoky, I can avoid it, becasue I have come to dance, not to drink, but I would also avoid venues where I found that such areas were consistently smoky.

Regarding Ashton's, one of the reasons I don't go is because I have so badly been affected by the smoke there in the past, perhaps it is different now, but I'm not likely to find out unless there is a complete smoking ban.

And for some reason that reminds me of another venue that was disgustingly smoky, mainly if you were upstairs, that is the Hammersmith Palais when the Ceroc Champs were on last May. IMO it was a serious error allowing smoking there.

Greg

[spindr]

:yeah:
Peter, I agree with nearly everything in your post, but I still think it is fair to list those venues where no smoking is not the policy, regardless of whether or not it is usually a problem in that venue. It is a simple and definable thing, and can help people like me avoid potentially smoky venues.

Definitely agree here.

If a venue allows smoking -- it doesn't take many heavy smokers to make it unpleasant (for me). Obviously, I have no idea whether this'll be the case before I turn up and part with my cash -- unless the venue has a clearly defined no smoking policy. I have been caught in the past -- thinking that a venue wasn't smokey -- only to turn up and find that on that particular occasion that it was. I would prefer to avoid this in the future.

SpinDr.

[Andy McGregor]

(loads of stuff about areas other than the dance floor being smoky)
If you look at the top of the page this thread is quite specific, deliberately so. It lists places where you can find a smoky dance floor. If doesn't list clubs that have a smoky bar, hallway, car park, etc, etc. If you visit a venue where the dance floor is smoky and would like to warn other people about it you can add it to the list by posting here. If you'd like to remain anonymous you can PM me. If you'd like to start a thread about smoky bars at dance venues please feel free to do so.

One thing I've found from my time in politics is that some people use a sort of befuddling tactic. They come up with loads of loosely related stuff to confuse the issue. This causes delay: maybe that's the objective, maybe it isn't. So, I'm posting this reminder of the purpose of this website. If you've anything to debate apart from smoky dance floors and their listing could you please do it somewhere else.

Here is the latest list, if you've been somewhere where the dance floor is smoky and it's not listed please make sure it gets on the list.


Ashtons - Ceroc
Bekhamstead - Ceroc
Bletchley - Ceroc
Bournemouth - Mojive
Bromley - Ceroc
Greenham Dances - Ginger Jive
Kempston - Ceroc
Luton - Ceroc
Northampton - Ceroc
Party Weekender
Peterborough - Ceroc
Twyford - Ceroc
Welling - Ceroc
Wellingborough - Ceroc.[/QUOTE]

[Lounge Lizard]

Exactly - this thread is about smoky dance floors - if smoking is permited but the dance floor is not smoky - perhaps cos the ventilation is very good or the amount of people smoking is so low as not to cause a problem should they be on your list

You give the impression that if you dance at the listed venues you risk serious illness, yet some of my favorite venues that do not allow smoking in the dance hall have bar and reception areas that are sooo smoke filled I can still smell it on my clothes the next day.

Iin you opinion are these places acceptable, or not worth you including on your list of unsuitable venues.

In my lack of experience of politics but vast experience as a born cynic I someties feel politicians and campaigners often select narrow topics that suit them and shy away from the broad spectrum that could be of even more benefit to those they are trying to help.

IMO you have never taken this approach, surley if smoke on the dance floor is a health risk, so is smoke in other areas dancers are exposed to it, albeit for a shorter period

What is the greater risk low levels of smoke over longer periods, or high levels of smoke over shorter period

The best option is no smoke, we all agree on that, but your campaign seems to advocates venues which exposes dancers to high levels over shorter periods by the sheer fact you feel such venues are not included in your name and shame list.

LL

[Andy McGregor]

(more stuff loosely related to smoky dance floors)

When we go to a dance venue our prime reason for the visit is to dance. We don't need to visit any other area (maybe the loo) to achieve our primary objective. If we don't want to dance in a smoky atmosphere we shouldn't go to that venue if the dance floor is smoky. And if the dance floor is smoky it needs to be listed here.

Yes, this is a single issue thread. It keeps things simple, everyone knows where they stand. Smoky dance floor = gets on list

If anyone would like to comment about other areas being smoky it is very useful information when deciding where to dance (especially for smokers who need to go somewhere for a fag) but could they do that elsewhere :flower:

[Lounge Lizard]

I am suprised Andy, you are not bothered about breathing smoke going into or out of the venue (I do not mean outside but access thru a smoky room) also we need to drink when dancing and the smoky bar is often far worse than the dance floor.
As these areas are all part of the venue that is used by the dancers paying the money - i once again ask the question do YOU not feel this poses a genuine health risk to your fellow dancers?

This after all is the single motive behind your thread to make dance floors (and hopefully) venues safer for the dancers and provide an informed and accurate list
I may be jumping the gun here, perhaps you are focusing on the dance areas, when they are clear you will then rid the bar's of Smoke - the sooner the better

peter

Just thought of this one....
Andy McGregor...the Febreze of modern jive :grin:

[MartinHarper]

It lists places where you can find a smoky dance floor.

As far as I can tell, it lists venues where smoking is permitted in the same room as the dance floor, rather than venues where the dance floor is smoky. For example, Lounge Lizard has said that he doesn't find the dance floor at Ashton's to be smoky, yet Ashton's is still on the list.

As your aim is to inform other dancers, perhaps you could more accurately title your list?

[Andy McGregor]

As far as I can tell, it lists venues where smoking is permitted in the same room as the dance floor, rather than venues where the dance floor is smoky. For example, Lounge Lizard has said that he doesn't find the dance floor at Ashton's to be smoky, yet Ashton's is still on the list.

As your aim is to inform other dancers, perhaps you could more accurately title your list?

I've been to Ashtons, I got the odd whiff of smoke while I was dancing. Maybe LL didn't smell the smokers because the DJ is on the opposite side from the smokers.

As I said, this is all about smoky dance floors.


(more stuff about smoky bars)
Yes there are some smoky bars, it's not nice to be in them. BUT this is a list of SMOKY DANCE FLOORS.

As I said earlier, if you want to list anything else do it elsewhere. Just because a venue is not listed doesn't mean it doesn't have a smoky bar - because THIS IS A LIST OF SMOKY DANCE FLOORS.

[Lounge Lizard]

sorry Andy thought it was about dancers being exposed to a health risk and naming the offending organisers, but it is more of an issue thing, it is nice to see the main forum culprit for sidetracking threads sticking so religiously to the party line on this one

To quote you
Ashtons provides 'the odd whiff of smoke' = a major campaign
I raise a point where a venue can be so smoky it is still on your clothes in the morning = p*ss off and leave my thread alone :tears:
.................it's ok I am going :blush: .................I know when I am not wanted :sad: ................no need to shout :confused:.............What about venues that have.....................no best not say anymore :whistle: ............bye :flower:

LL
Warning a whiff of smoke can be seriously damaging to your health :wink:

[stompin' phil]

What about Smoky bacon dance floors!

Phil

[skippy]

Definitely agree here.

If a venue allows smoking -- it doesn't take many heavy smokers to make it unpleasant (for me). Obviously, I have no idea whether this'll be the case before I turn up and part with my cash -- unless the venue has a clearly defined no smoking policy. I have been caught in the past -- thinking that a venue wasn't smokey -- only to turn up and find that on that particular occasion that it was. I would prefer to avoid this in the future.

SpinDr.

I agree, i hate smoking and it is always great that the venues up in Scotland are non-smoking. :clap: However, I recently spoke with someone new at Ceroc who arrived and then felt like a small child when the teacher announced it was a no smoking venue, perhaps all publicity should say this or have a big sign at the front door to avoid embarrassment!! :blush:

[MartinHarper]

[re Ashton's] the odd whiff of smoke while I was dancing.

Ok, so this isn't a list of venues with smoky dance floors - it's a list of venues where you might get an odd whiff of smoke while dancing. Good to have that cleared up.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=smoky

[ChrisA]

THIS IS A LIST OF SMOKY DANCE FLOORS.

Actually, it's a list of venues where the air above the dance floor is smoky. :innocent: :whistle:

I mean, if the floor was smoky, it would make your shoes stick, and as you've said, this is a single-issue thread...

Sticky shoes won't shorten your life, well unless you trip over and bang your head.

Sorry, I think this is all getting a little silly, so I couldn't resist. :blush:

Chris

[Andy McGregor]

Actually, it's a list of venues where the air above the dance floor is smoky. :innocent: :whistle:

I mean, if the floor was smoky, it would make your shoes stick, and as you've said, this is a single-issue thread...

Sticky shoes won't shorten your life, well unless you trip over and bang your head.

Sorry, I think this is all getting a little silly, so I couldn't resist. :blush:

Chris

I thought it was getting silly too :wink: And, continue in the same vein, smoke being a colloidal suspension in a gas you couldn't get a smoky dance floor - the dance floor would, of course be sooty.

Much like our clothes, hair, lungs, stalkers, etc :(

[Dreadful Scathe]

the dance floor would, of course be sooty.
[like the]... stalkers, etc :(

You're being stalked by Sooty ??!?!

aaargh...

http://www.sootyandsweeps.com/sootyandsweeps/image/pic/sooty72.jpg

[lindyloo]

[QUOTE=Dreadful Scathe]You're being stalked by Sooty ??!?!



Where's Sweep?

[Zebra Woman]

From the Ashtons thread...


Last night I wore a freshly laundered cardi and this morning there was the faint smell of smoke .So I'd say Ashtons is still a smoking venue but not as smoky as it has been in the past and not nearly as bad as my local Ceroc venues which seem to have smoking clubs at the bar. C'mon Linda you're nearly there.

I mostly care about the dance floor being smoke free because that's what makes me feel ill the next day ...

BUT if I have to stand in a smoky bar to get a drink or walk through a smoky foyer then the venue will fail the clean cardi test and I will have to shower before I go to bed and wash all the clothes that I wore. I think this is part of what happened at Cheshunt at the Mini Masters,there was such a lot of frantic smoking going on in the Foyer and bar by nervous competitors and I think it permeated onto the floor.

After last night at Ashtons , big improvement on previous weeks ....I have no headache :clap: but a slightly smelly cardi :sad:

Perhaps we should we have Amber for clean dance floor but smoky bar/foyer and Green for totally clean air everywhere?

ZW :flower:

[Lounge Lizard]

Perhaps we should we have Amber for clean dance floor but smoky bar/foyer and Green for totally clean air everywhere?

ZW :flower:Wish I had put this, great idea, very simple, a good benefit to the dancers and positive encouragement for the organisers

I still feel some venues that permit smoking but are not really smokey should be seperated from the bad ones but agree this is hard to agree upon

So Andy can we have colour coding please

just a thought as my candlelit dances have.....er candles do I get a green or Amber card
:wink:

[Rachel]

BUT if I have to stand in a smoky bar to get a drink or walk through a smoky foyer then the venue will fail the clean cardi test and I will have to shower before I go to bed and wash all the clothes that I wore.... Don't you do that anyway? :confused:

[Andy McGregor]

just a thought as my candlelit dances have.....er candles do I get a green or Amber card
:wink:

Silly week doen't start 'til Monday - it's nice to see some people are making an early start :whistle:

[Lounge Lizard]

So are you going to adopt the red = Smokey dance floor
Amber = Smoking in bar or area adjacent to dance foor used by dancers
green = Complete no smoking Ban

I would prefer your list to identify the venues that ban smoking completly
Bar, dance area, access to and from dance hall, etc.

I would imagine this would be welcomed by others on the forum or will I get a silly reply in big letters stating this is for smokey dance floors
LL

[RobC]

So are you going to adopt the red = Smokey dance floor
Amber = Smoking in bar or area adjacent to dance foor used by dancers
green = Complete no smoking Ban

I would prefer your list to identify the venues that ban smoking completly
Bar, dance area, access to and from dance hall, etc.

I would imagine this would be welcomed by others on the forum or will I get a silly reply in big letters stating this is for smokey dance floors
LL
There's already a non-smoking dance floor (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4304) thread :wink:

Amber and Red would be useful though Andy :nice:

[Lynn]

So are you going to adopt the red = Smokey dance floor
Amber = Smoking in bar or area adjacent to dance foor used by dancers
green = Complete no smoking Ban I like this differentiation, though the Amber could be a bit of a grey area (pardon the pun) as it will depend on the number of smokers and how close they are to the dance floor. But for a smoke free environment you could just avoid any 'red' or 'amber' venues. (Though I think I would like ZW tend to grade venues by how smoky I smell when I came out).

Interestingly, read on a leaflet last night that 3/4 of the population do not smoke. I would presume this would if anything be higher amongst dancers. It does make me wonder why some venues are catering for a small proportion of their customers (those who want to smoke at the venue) at the expense of the rest. (And you also have to take from that small proportion the dancers who do smoke but are considerate and don't smoke in the same place people are dancing, and therefore would not be affected by a smoking ban near the dance floor).

[Lounge Lizard]

How about keeping it in a true traffic light format
Red + Amber :wink: for venues like Ashtons that allow smoking in the main hall but in reality there is very little smoke in the room.

there are many smoking threads and Andy has done well with the campaign, but to avoid diluting the issue if this thread could become the definitive guide to dancers that information could be utilised on the many websites providing dance listing.

Andy is the no Smoking Tsar so it would only work if he was behind it


So over to Andy

LL

[jivecat]

A week late, but I wanted to mention Corby, where Ceroc Central held a one-off (?) freestyle on Friday. Lots of muggles attended and as they couldn't dance spent the evening puffing away next to the dance floor. The dance was held in a working men's club - there was a very smoky bar next door where the smokers could have gone, in warmth and comfort, when they needed to service their addiction. It makes it all the more irritating when they don't show any consideration for non-smokers. Amazingly, there was a sign up in the bar saying "No smoking within 1 metre of the bar". :confused: What the hell is that about? Seems totally irrational to me.

Having briefly mentioned my concerns to Phil Roberts I now have the impression that he is not interested in smoky dance floor issues. So roll on the day when it is banned from public places by law. In the meantime, venues such as Corby, Wellingborough and Kettering (tonight!) could put over the message in a subtle, non-authoritarian way by simply removing all ashtrays from the table before the start of the event. Surely, even the most crassly insensitive smoker would get the message?

[RobC]

Surely, even the most crassly insensitive smoker would get the message?
I doubt it - their sort are more likely to just drop their fag ash and butts on the dance floor instead :angry:

[MartinHarper]

There was a sign up in the bar saying "No smoking within 1 metre of the bar". :confused: What the hell is that about? Seems totally irrational to me.

I'm told that the sign is there to partially protect bar staff from passive smoking. Employers have a duty under law to protect their employees from health risks. The health and safety laws are there to prevent the poor and desperate from being exploited by unscrupulous employers. The same duty of care does not exist towards patrons, as they are present of their own free will, and can always choose to go elsewhere.

(I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice)

[Yogi_Bear]

I think that somewhere on this thread there was a reference to Ceroc venuues in the midlands that allow smoking. I can vouch for the fact that smoking was certainly in evidence at the Peterborough Parkway Sports and Social Club venue last Thursday evening. Not a major problem in that particular case, fortunately enough, but enough to make me think twice before going there again. :mad:

[jivecat]

I'm told that the sign is there to partially protect bar staff from passive smoking. Employers have a duty under law to protect their employees from health risks. The health and safety laws are there to prevent the poor and desperate from being exploited by unscrupulous employers. The same duty of care does not exist towards patrons, as they are present of their own free will, and can always choose to go elsewhere.

(I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice)


Yes, I understand the point of H&S laws. But seeing as the smoke is free to float about wherever it wants, the 1 metre rule can hardly be providing much protection!

[Andy McGregor]

Having briefly mentioned my concerns to Phil Roberts I now have the impression that he is not interested in smoky dance floor issues. So roll on the day when it is banned from public places by law. In the meantime, venues such as Corby, Wellingborough and Kettering (tonight!) could put over the message in a subtle, non-authoritarian way by simply removing all ashtrays from the table before the start of the event. Surely, even the most crassly insensitive smoker would get the message?
Mr Roberts is probably concerned about profit - like any other sane businessman. The way to make him take notice is to do something that affects his profits. At the moment he probably thinks his profits would reduce if he banned smoking because the smokers would go to a different venue. All the time non-smokers are attending Mr Robert's smoky venues there really is no profit incentive to ban smoking.

Any suggestions? :whistle:

[jivecat]

All the time non-smokers are attending Mr Robert's smoky venues there really is no profit incentive to ban smoking.

Any suggestions? :whistle:


Well, I could stay at home and not do any Ceroc, I s'ppose. That'd learn him. :tears: :sick:

[Andy McGregor]

Well, I could stay at home and not do any Ceroc, I s'ppose. That'd learn him. :tears: :sick:

Or you could do a Google search for modern jive in your area, find a venue then email or 'phone them and ask about their smoking policy. It's the same dance but possibly without the smoke :sick:

Or you could open your own venue - that's what I did :whistle:

[Sheepman]

While it's still fresh in my mind, (and very stale in my clothes and lungs) a report from the Rivoli, where Jive Party had their monthly dance last night. It was the smokiest venue I have been in for years. Loads of non dancers there, who seemed only interested in smoking. The policy will have to change before I will consider going back there. The only thing I can compare it to recently was last May, the Ceroc Championships at Hammersmith Palais, where I was upstairs, seemingly alongside all the smokers that were there.

Greg

[Andy McGregor]

While it's still fresh in my mind, (and very stale in my clothes and lungs) a report from the Rivoli, where Jive Party had their monthly dance last night. It was the smokiest venue I have been in for years. Loads of non dancers there, who seemed only interested in smoking. The policy will have to change before I will consider going back there. The only thing I can compare it to recently was last May, the Ceroc Championships at Hammersmith Palais, where I was upstairs, seemingly alongside all the smokers that were there.

Greg
Remind me, why do we want to go to the London Ceroc champs? :confused:

[Chef]

While it's still fresh in my mind, (and very stale in my clothes and lungs) a report from the Rivoli, where Jive Party had their monthly dance last night. It was the smokiest venue I have been in for years. Loads of non dancers there, who seemed only interested in smoking. The policy will have to change before I will consider going back there.
Greg

:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:

This was the first thing I was going to report this morning. The Rivoli :angry: :angry: The place is open until 1am but my little party of 4 were forced to go home at midnight by sore throats and smoke closed eyes. I asked the organisers, Jiveparty, what the smoking policy was and was told that smoking was banned ON THE DANCEFLOOR but allowed everywhere else. It would be banned in about a year when the law is passed. I may consider going back after that law is passed but not until.

About 60% of the people at the venue were non dancers who were either in to watch the dancers or were having a 50s themed party. Their increasingly drunken antics on the dance floor became such a hazard that dancing was no fun at all for the last hour of our stay.

So if you like swing music, smoking and lots of non dancers then the Rivoli would be great for you.

I will only consider going back when the non smoking law is passed.

Happy Dancing.

[Minnie M]

This was the first thing I was going to report this morning. The Rivoli..........

What a shame :really:

I was at the Rivoli when they had their Charity event - don't think I saw anyone smoking - might be because 90% of the people their were dancers. However, do see your point.

Most drinkers often tend to be smokers (IMO) and other dancers eg: Salsa / Soul / R 'n' R dancers also tend (IMO) to be smokers and drinkers, and they are not bothered about the smoking. :sick:

Therefore, when the night is booked out for a MJ event, it becomes hard to keep the non-smoking rule as usually the door is open to all

[Zebra Woman]

Hoorah! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Just got this email today. I am over the moon :grin:
Absolutely loads of venues near me are going to be non-smoking. Check out ceroccentral.com for the whole list.

Quoted from the ceroccentral standard email:

SMOKING

It has been decided that, as from September of this year, all Ceroc Central
events will be non-smoking. This is not a decision that I've undertaken
lightly as there are number of considerations to weigh up: however, I do
feel it's the correct one...

* Although in my experience the vast majority of smokers at Ceroc are
extremely considerate, an increasing number of you (Cerocers) have informed
me that smoke at venues has been a problem.

* It seems somewhat incongruous that Ceroc, a health-based activity, should
take place in a smoking environment.

* Hopefully, those of you who are smokers won't find this too much of a
nuisance: it's not like being in a plane, for example, where there is no
opportunity to nip outside for a puff! I'm sure that's what many of you
were doing in any case.

* I certainly don't wish to appear to be a huge anti-smoker. In all
honesty, when I'm at Ceroc I'm so busy (teaching or dancing) that I'm rarely
within cigarette touching distance for any length of time but I am well
aware that is not the case for you all and I don't want people's enjoyment
to be diminished for reasons of discomfort or concerns about their health.

* Ultimately, we are just trying 'to do the right thing'.

.../snip/.....

best regards

Phil



Good on yer Phil :clap: :cheers:

[Lee]

Will Ceroc London follow?

Lee

[Zebra Woman]

Will Ceroc London follow?

Lee

:whistle: :whistle: :whistle:

It would make sense. Pity they didn't lead the way here.

[under par]

Hoorah! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Just got this email today. I am over the moon :grin:
Absolutely loads of venues near me are going to be non-smoking. Check out ceroccentral.com for the whole list.

Quoted from the ceroccentral standard email:

SMOKING

It has been decided that, as from September of this year, all Ceroc Central
events will be non-smoking. This is not a decision that I've undertaken
lightly as there are number of considerations to weigh up: however, I do
feel it's the correct one...

* Although in my experience the vast majority of smokers at Ceroc are
extremely considerate, an increasing number of you (Cerocers) have informed
me that smoke at venues has been a problem.

* It seems somewhat incongruous that Ceroc, a health-based activity, should
take place in a smoking environment.

* Hopefully, those of you who are smokers won't find this too much of a
nuisance: it's not like being in a plane, for example, where there is no
opportunity to nip outside for a puff! I'm sure that's what many of you
were doing in any case.

* I certainly don't wish to appear to be a huge anti-smoker. In all
honesty, when I'm at Ceroc I'm so busy (teaching or dancing) that I'm rarely
within cigarette touching distance for any length of time but I am well
aware that is not the case for you all and I don't want people's enjoyment
to be diminished for reasons of discomfort or concerns about their health.

* Ultimately, we are just trying 'to do the right thing'.

.../snip/.....

best regards

Phil



Good on yer Phil :clap: :cheers:


The message is spreading and it should not be long before all public places of entertainment will ban the smokers forever. :yeah:

[Yogi_Bear]

The message is spreading and it should not be long before all public places of entertainment will ban the smokers forever. :yeah:I agree!! I have never been back to a venue where smoking has been allowed / encouraged. (btw, you deserve an award for posting at 4.13 am... :eek: )

[Donna]

The message is spreading and it should not be long before all public places of entertainment will ban the smokers forever. :yeah:

:yeah: :yeah:

I can't STAND the smell of smoke and never have I come across any venue where smoking has been allowed. People go to keep fit and it's not gonna help them when they're inhaling other peoples filthy smoke only to increase the risk of lung cancer.

[Andy McGregor]

This is fabulous news. Well done Phil :worthy:

How about Ceroc Kent?

[Donna]

This is fabulous news. Well done Phil :worthy:

How about Ceroc Kent?

Approx how many venues have you been to with a smokey atmosphere then???

[Andy McGregor]

Approx how many venues have you been to with a smokey atmosphere then???I've not been to a venue with a smoky atmosphere for at least a year, probably two. But that's because I stopped going to Ceroc Kent venues because of the smoke* - I ask the question because there may have been a change of policy!

*things may have changed, but the last I heard Ceroc Kent still had 8 venues that permitted smoking :sick:

[Donna]

I've not been to a venue with a smoky atmosphere for at least a year, probably two. But that's because I stopped going to Ceroc Kent venues because of the smoke* - I ask the question because there may have been a change of policy!

*things may have changed, but the last I heard Ceroc Kent still had 8 venues that permitted smoking :sick:

That's disgusting. Oh well I'm sure whoever runs those venues will most probably find they don't get half as many people as other venues to don't allow smoking. It just puts people off. :sick:

[bigdjiver]

That's disgusting. Oh well I'm sure whoever runs those venues will most probably find they don't get half as many people as other venues to don't allow smoking. It just puts people off. :sick:The word of mouth evidence that I have is that Ceroc Central's no smoking policy, which has been extensively trialled, is costing Phil money. Phil does seem prepared to spend money to try to offer a quality night night out.

I would love to be able to data-mine his database to get some idea of the effects of this ban. I have the suspicion that it might bite dis-proportionally on beginners, the not yet addicted to MJ, who tend to dance less, and might feel more in need. As a non-smoker who is always looking for more space to dance, I am all in favour. Phil, have some virtual rep.

[Donna]

The word of mouth evidence that I have is that Ceroc Central's no smoking policy, which has been extensively trialled, is costing Phil money. Phil does seem prepared to spend money to try to offer a quality night night out

If that's what it takes is spending a lot of money to ensure that people get a quality night out, then so be it. If he didn't do that, he'd most probably just loose more money than what he is spending anyway.


As a non-smoker who is always looking for more space to dance, I am all in favour. Phil, have some virtual rep.

If people go outside the venue to smoke you wouldn't believe how much a difference it makes to having more space on the dance floor.