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Dance Demon
16th-November-2004, 06:26 PM
Just got home from picking up Mrs DD from work. She works in the south side of Edinburgh, near to the University, and there are loads of cyclists around. I was amazed at the number of cyclists who were wearing dark clothing, and had no lights on their bikes. During the winter months, when the rush hour is during darkness hours, and often in inclement weather, you more often than not don't see them until the last moment. IMHO I think that cyclists should be made to have lights on their bikes during darkness hours, and should at ALL times (even during daylight hours) be made to wear hi viz clothing with reflector strips.

MartinHarper
16th-November-2004, 07:00 PM
During the winter months, when the rush hour is during darkness hours, and often in inclement weather, you more often than not don't see them until the last moment.

Drive slower.

philsmove
16th-November-2004, 07:22 PM
Drive slower.

In Bristol rush hour, most bicycles are going faster than cars

I would never ride my bike in the dark with out a reflective waistcoat thingy

DavidY
16th-November-2004, 07:25 PM
IMHO I think that cyclists should be made to have lights on their bikes during darkness hours ...I thought there was already a law that says this? :confused:

drathzel
16th-November-2004, 07:30 PM
Just got home from picking up Mrs DD from work. She works in the south side of Edinburgh, near to the University, and there are loads of cyclists around. I was amazed at the number of cyclists who were wearing dark clothing, and had no lights on their bikes. During the winter months, when the rush hour is during darkness hours, and often in inclement weather, you more often than not don't see them until the last moment. IMHO I think that cyclists should be made to have lights on their bikes during darkness hours, and should at ALL times (even during daylight hours) be made to wear hi viz clothing with reflector strips.

i noticed this too when i was pulling out of work tonight onto a not very well lit road! I will not tell you what i called the cyclist but it wasn't you lovely cyclist go on ahead there!!!! :devil:

baldrick
16th-November-2004, 11:27 PM
IMHO I think that cyclists should be made to have lights on their bikes during darkness hours, and should at ALL times (even during daylight hours) be made to wear hi viz clothing with reflector strips.
Cyclist do have to have lights after lighting up time, same as all others on the roads. Need to be enforced. Once made a set of bike lights that had a big area but were not especialy bright, to be seen not to see by. The reaction of the police? Not "oy mate those lights are illigal" but sadly " good grief, there's a bike with lights"
But I don't agree about the high vis stuff. Sensible to wear clothes that show up. Dark colours are not a good idea, but there's no way I HAVE to wear flouresent yellow. Big slabs of single colour seem to work best, small sections on reflective tape do no harm. Its all about being responsible for ones self.

Sparkles
17th-November-2004, 12:03 AM
Maybe we should send all cyclists to Sheepie and Joy's seamstress :whistle: ? :wink:

Dance Demon
17th-November-2004, 12:57 AM
But I don't agree about the high vis stuff. Sensible to wear clothes that show up.

People who work on the highway are made to wear high viz clothing for their and other road users safety, and cyclists should be the same. Cyclists are often very difficult to see, especially on darker evenings.Many are also very prone to mounting the kerb onto the pavement to avoid traffic lights etc. It's not just drivers who don't see them, pedestrians also risk being run down by cyclists on the pavement. police should be more vigilant to stop & prosecute cyclists who do not have lights on their bikes. They are not slow at fining car drivers for having a light out.

Lindsay
17th-November-2004, 01:11 AM
I would love to use my bike in Edinburgh, but
1. I'm too lazy, and
2. It's extremely dangerous IMO

I've seen several accidents over the years, and think the cycle lanes should be separated with a kERB rather than just a coloured strip.

And while I'm on the soap box, why do drivers seem to insist on going in the fast/overtaking/righthand lane all the time?? The bus lanes are only bus lanes between 7.20-9.30 and 4.30-6.30 (roughly). Yet in Edinburgh there's an eternal queue of slow traffic in the right hand lane. I sometimes whizz up the left if I'm in a bad mood. V dangerous I know but if u have pmt you don't care.

Anyone found this, or is it only happening to me???
:mad:

Dance Demon
17th-November-2004, 01:27 AM
And while I'm on the soap box, why do drivers seem to insist on going in the fast/overtaking/righthand lane all the time?? The bus lanes are only bus lanes between 7.20-9.30 and 4.30-6.30 (roughly). Yet in Edinburgh there's an eternal queue of slow traffic in the right hand lane.

You have to watch with the greenway bus lanes. Some of them operate all day from 7.30am to 6.30 pm. The ones on Leith Walk, and the ones on the A71 Calder Road are all day ones for some strange reason. :confused:

Andy McGregor
17th-November-2004, 01:32 AM
if I'm in a bad mood. V dangerous I know but if u have pmt you don't care.

Anyone found this, or is it only happening to me???
:mad:

No, P.M.T. is very common, and we need to tread lightly around all women and be understanding at all times, just in case ...

Matthew
17th-November-2004, 02:19 AM
But I don't agree about the high vis stuff. Sensible to wear clothes that show up. Dark colours are not a good idea, but there's no way I HAVE to wear flouresent yellow. Big slabs of single colour seem to work best, small sections on reflective tape do no harm. Its all about being responsible for ones self.

Reflective tape is a lifesaver at night. In headlights, black and coloured clothing (including high-vis yellow and orange) is all much the same, visible at 60m. White is visible at 90m. Retroreflective tape is visible at 200m. With cars typically travelling at something like 20m/s, yellow clothing gives the driver just enough notice to realise that the thing under his tyres was a cyclist.

Same story with those three-LED battery powered bike lights, they're crap, cars have far better headlights than your taillights will ever be, wear something reflective.

philsmove
17th-November-2004, 06:06 AM
I would love to use my bike in Edinburgh, but

I remember when living in Edinburgh a wonderful cycle ride fro the top The Mound to Leith , :) but the return journey :sad:



And while I'm on the soap box, why do drivers seem to insist on going in the fast/overtaking/righthand lane all the time??
In Bristol some, but not all, bus lanes are 24 Hour. NO we do not have 24 hour buses. I can never remember which is which and I am fairly sure they change them to try and catch me out

Sheepman
17th-November-2004, 12:37 PM
Maybe we should send all cyclists to Sheepie and Joy's seamstress :whistle: ? :wink: :angry:
At least I'll have a use for it, instead of ditching it after the next comp!

So does anyone know what happened to the EU proposals that cyclists could never be liable for an accident, and that all claims had to come off the drivers insurance?
My theory when I'm cycling is that I would prefer to survive the experience, I may not always wear bright gear when riding in London, as the visibility is rarely bad, but the lights, and riding with respect to others is also vital.

Greg

Dance Demon
17th-November-2004, 12:44 PM
Drive slower.

Phew!!!..that must have took a lot of thought Martin:rolleyes:

It's hard to drive much slower in the rush hour traffic in Edinburgh, but driving slower doesn't really mean tou see cyclists any better.....especially when they sneak up the 1ft gap between your car and the pavement.................

Northants Girly
17th-November-2004, 01:01 PM
Going off thread (only very slightly)

One of my pet whinges is when teachers insist on wearing black, especially black trousers. When the background colour of the stage is also black (as is often the case) it makes it very difficult to see exactly what they are doing with their legs/feet - especially if you are at the back of a large dance hall in somewhere like Camber! :sad:

philsmove
17th-November-2004, 08:31 PM
Going off thread (only very slightly)

One of my pet whinges is when teachers insist on wearing black, especially black trousers. When the background colour of the stage is also black (as is often the case) it makes it very difficult to see exactly what they are doing with their legs/feet - especially if you are at the back of a large dance hall in somewhere like Camber! :sad:

:yeah:

Teachers should be forced to wear day glow socks and gloves

Red for the left foot and hand Green for the right

Lindsay
18th-November-2004, 12:38 AM
FLASHING LIGHTS ON BIKES
And no solid constant beam... didn't I read somewhere that's illegal? Well against the bike highway code, or whatever.

jockey
18th-November-2004, 01:45 AM
Just got home from picking up Mrs DD from work. She works in the south side of Edinburgh, near to the University, and there are loads of cyclists around. I was amazed at the number of cyclists who were wearing dark clothing, and had no lights on their bikes. During the winter months, when the rush hour is during darkness hours, and often in inclement weather, you more often than not don't see them until the last moment. IMHO I think that cyclists should be made to have lights on their bikes during darkness hours, and should at ALL times (even during daylight hours) be made to wear hi viz clothing with reflector strips.
Is this a useful tip from VIZ magazine?

Andy McGregor
18th-November-2004, 09:58 AM
FLASHING LIGHTS ON BIKES
And no solid constant beam... didn't I read somewhere that's illegal? Well against the bike highway code, or whatever.

Some time ago I read in a Mountain Biking mag (gave up after injuring my shoulder falling off in the woods - took up dancing - the rest is history) that the law was written before they invented LEDs. The law said something like the light must be from an electric current passing through a metal filament. I think it was meant to stop the use of gas or candle lights. The article said that, in their opinion, a flashing light was more likely to be noticed than a non-flashing one, you certainly notice them more at sea I know nobody cycles at sea but if they did you'd think they were a buoy if they flashed and the port side of a boat if they didn't.

Graham
18th-November-2004, 11:45 AM
I know nobody cycles at sea but if they did you'd think they were a buoy if they flashed and the port side of a boat if they didn't.
I'm sure I heard somewhere that the crew of large vessels such as tankers use bikes or even mopeds to get around.

Stuart M
18th-November-2004, 02:28 PM
and should at ALL times (even during daylight hours) be made to wear hi viz clothing with reflector strips.
Fine - if we apply a similar rule to cars. It's well-known that some colours are safer than others (e.g. this study highlighted in New Scientist (http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/cars/article.jsp?id=99994504&sub=Designing%20for%20safety). It's cars who cause most accidents, after all.

Another interesting thing is that legislating for cyclist safety tends, in the overall picture of public health, to be counter-productive. If you were to pass a law saying that all cyclists have to wear hi-viz clothing at all times, then you'd get less children out cycling. Therefore you get less cyclists eventually, and that contributes to the health problems caused by kids sitting in their rooms playing their X-boxes all day...

Agree with you about lights though :)

Dance Demon
18th-November-2004, 03:52 PM
In some European countries,e.g. Sweden, cars have to have lights on all the time. Thats why Volvos & Saabs always have side lights on (I'm reliably informed). i just think that as there is far more traffic on the roads these days, there is a need for more safety measures to protect all road users.

Andy McGregor
18th-November-2004, 04:06 PM
In some European countries,e.g. Sweden, cars have to have lights on all the time. Thats why Volvos & Saabs always have side lights on (I'm reliably informed). i just think that as there is far more traffic on the roads these days, there is a need for more safety measures to protect all road users.

I remember in the '70s (yes, I'm that old) all Volvos had their side-lights permanently on. The story was that they were that way for Sweden and they couldn't change them for export. I remember reading that this was rubbish as they managed to change the side of the steering and pedals without too much trouble.

On thing I noticed on Monday night as I walked around Worthing was the nuumber of cyclists on the pavement. I suppose that's a safer place for them but it didn't feel at all safe for me with people whizzing past on their bikes.

MartinHarper
18th-November-2004, 04:58 PM
Highway code for cyclists (http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/03.shtml) (appropriate use of light clothing in cyclists is already part of the highway code)

Are your cycle lights legal? (http://www.cobr.co.uk/e-cobr_shopping/channels/special_services_lighting.htm) (this answers Lindsay's question about flashing lights and the law - which is, from this article, an ass)

Rhythm King
18th-November-2004, 05:21 PM
I remember in the '70s (yes, I'm that old) all Volvos had their side-lights permanently on. The story was that they were that way for Sweden and they couldn't change them for export. I remember reading that this was rubbish as they managed to change the side of the steering and pedals without too much trouble.



It's true, the law in Sweden requires all vehicles to use daylight running lights, ie the side lights. Export SAABs :drool: :clap: have the option to turn off the lights. Export Volvos didn't. We have to take our work Volvos to the Volvo dealer to have the light switch modified so we can turn the sidelights off.

When I lived in Germany, cyclists were expected to obey the law. In fact in Germany they don't have a Highway Code, there is just the law. If a cyclist is done for drunk-in-charge on a pushbike (and they are!), the points/ban will be taken from their driving licence if they have one! The same with riding without lights.
In London the cyclists frequently ride without lights, in dark clothing and totally ignore traffic lights and zebra crossings. I've nearly been run down on a crossing on a number of occasions. I've had a few close shaves with them jumping lights when I've been driving too.They are then the first to complain if a car doesn't see them.
With regard to lighrts, part of the problem is that cycle shops often don't actually sell proper lights, only the LED variety. These can be set to steady, or flashing. The flashing lights are actually harder to spot and make judging distance difficult. The other thing is that people attach them to clothing rather than the bike, so the lights are at funny angles. It would help if people change the batteries when they run down as well. :mad:
The Highway Code applies equally to drivers, cyclists, pedestrians, horse riders, in fact any and everybody on the Highway. Pity people don't read it more often.

A grumpy R-K :whistle:

MartinHarper
18th-November-2004, 05:48 PM
In Germany, if a cyclist is done for drunk-in-charge on a pushbike (and they are!), the points/ban will be taken from their driving licence if they have one!

The same in the UK: being drunk in charge of a bike can put points on your driving license. That said, I agree that Germany handles traffic issues better. For a start, they have many more cycle paths.


cycle shops often don't actually sell proper lights, only the LED variety. These can be set to steady, or flashing. The flashing lights are actually harder to spot and make judging distance difficult.

Personally I don't care what technology lights use, as long as they provide lots of light! :)
Flashing lights are, according to the research I've read (eg, see below) more attention-getting than solid lights, and it is for that reason that cyclists use them.
http://www.unece.org/trans/main/wp29/wp29wgs/wp29gre/greinfdoc/48inf02.pdf

Zebra Woman
18th-November-2004, 06:03 PM
In London the cyclists frequently ride without lights, in dark clothing and totally ignore traffic lights and zebra crossing


Ooohh that makes me mad too ! :angry:

ZW :hug:

Rhythm King
18th-November-2004, 06:10 PM
Ooohh that makes me mad too ! :angry:

ZW :hug:

Not so much a Zebra Crossing then as a cross Zebra :rofl:

R-K x :flower:

baldrick
18th-November-2004, 07:39 PM
It a dull thought, but its not the vehicle that causes the problem. Its the person in control. There's good and bad of every variety. Can I start a thread on......say black BMW's, taxi's maybe, how about the good old company rep.

What I want is respect for me as a road user, no matter what I happen to be driving.

There was an experiment done where a cyclist dressed "dark" with lights. Went on his commute and kept a record or incedents.
Then he dressed Florry, and did the trips again.
The two periods showed little difference in the consideration given by motorists.
However on the final day of the trial no-one went near him. With special permission he did the journy's dressd as a policeman.

Dance Demon
18th-November-2004, 08:28 PM
I

What I want is respect for me as a road user, no matter what I happen to be driving.
T

Good point baldrick, but to be respected you have to give respect also. To be fair, the instances where motor vehicles drive on the pavement to avoid traffic lights is considerably less than that of cyclists. Also on dark nights motor vehicle drivers ( unless they forget initially to switch them on) drive with lights on. Agreed, wearing florry gear might not get you any more respect, but it would remove the "I didn't see him/her" excuse if you get knocked off your bike.

Dance Demon
19th-November-2004, 11:49 AM
Think someone misunderstood my last post. I didn't think it was particularly inflamatory. Maybe they should have read the post before negrepping it....anonymously........:rolleyes:

Andy McGregor
19th-November-2004, 12:12 PM
Think someone misunderstood my last post. I didn't think it was particularly inflamatory. Maybe they should have read the post before negrepping it....anonymously........:rolleyes:

Pay your £15 to Franck and you can see who's repped you :wink:

Zebra Woman
19th-November-2004, 12:23 PM
There was an experiment done where a cyclist dressed "dark" with lights. Went on his commute and kept a record or incedents.
Then he dressed Florry, and did the trips again.
The two periods showed little difference in the consideration given by motorists.
However on the final day of the trial no-one went near him. With special permission he did the journy's dressd as a policeman.

I rode a motorbike all year round for 8 years .

Mostly I was wearing a high viz yellow waistcoat with reflective strips, ie. looking a little like a police motorcyclist. I often noticed cars dramatically slowing down to observe the speed limit, :rofl: not so when I wore black leathers tho. :mad:

Then there was the time I wore a skirt ....:devil:
:rofl:

Andy McGregor
19th-November-2004, 12:27 PM
not so when I wore black leathers tho. :mad:


WOW! The thought of ZW in black leather has brightened up my day :flower:

Dance Demon
19th-November-2004, 01:08 PM
WOW! The thought of ZW in black leather has brightened up my day :flower:

The thought of ZW on a motorbike ...in a skirt....has brightened up my whole week......:whistle: :whistle:

baldrick
19th-November-2004, 08:22 PM
The thought of ZW on a motorbike ...in a skirt....has brightened up my whole week......:whistle: :whistle:
Is this a private club, or can I join. :whistle: :drool:

baldrick
19th-November-2004, 08:26 PM
Good point baldrick, but to be respected you have to give respect also. To be fair, the instances where motor vehicles drive on the pavement to avoid traffic lights is considerably less than that of cyclists. Also on dark nights motor vehicle drivers ( unless they forget initially to switch them on) drive with lights on. Agreed, wearing florry gear might not get you any more respect, but it would remove the "I didn't see him/her" excuse if you get knocked off your bike.
Couldn't agree more, but I don't ride on the pavement. I wait for green traffic lights before setting off and so on. I stick to the rules, and it makes me mad when others don't. Back to the enforcement issue. No-one expects to be caught so why bother, their journy is obviously so much more important than anybody elses.
Bit like them that undertake on the motorway, or is that off thread.

Dance Demon
20th-November-2004, 01:17 PM
Couldn't agree more, but I don't ride on the pavement. I wait for green traffic lights before setting off and so on. I stick to the rules, and it makes me mad when others don't.

Good point baldrick. I know that a lot of cyclists do stick to the rules. i suppose when you think of it, most drivers flaunt the highway code in some way when they are driving. I drive an LGV (HGV) and I always drive outside the cycle lanes, but it annoys me when other drivers try to cut inside me, even though the gap is hardly big enough:angry: It also annoys me when people cut accross behind me when I am reversing, ( cars, cyclists and pedestrians)despite reverse lights, flashing beacon and reverse alarm being on. Fortunately all our vehicles have rear cameras on them.
I suppose we should all take a look at the way we use the road, regardless of what type of vehicle we drive, and show more consideration for other road users.

baldrick
22nd-November-2004, 12:35 PM
I suppose we should all take a look at the way we use the road, regardless of what type of vehicle we drive, and show more consideration for other road users.
With you all the way on that :clap: :cheers: