Raunch Factor

[Wendy]

Originally posted by bill foreman
...we are so uptight about this aren't we - yet in S America the 'macho' men think nothing of learning to salsa or tango together !...

This got me thinking about the variations on how comfortable people are with the more up-close-and-personal moves and .. well raunchiness.. for want of a better word. :wink:

Personally, I find that the men at the Edinburgh parties, for instance, (and yes, I know some of them are from Aberdeen :wink: ) are more likely to do raunchier moves than the men at the Glasgow parties. And Graham felt the same way about the women :sick:

So. Is this a regional thing, an age thing, a who's-taught-you thing or simply a je-ne-sais-quoi thing ???

Would love to hear your comments.

Let the debate commence! :cheers:

Wx

[Dreadful Scathe]

I think all guys who go to Ceroc have obviously got over the 'dancing is for girls' nonsense :) The problem is more likely to be who will lead than anything else - and of course not wanting to find out that trying to follow a bad lead can be torture and following isn't as easy as it looks :) :p

[Jon]

Wendy, I think it might be a "How well do you know your partner" thing.

I love dancing up close and personal moves and with one particular partner she now calls it "Up close n steamy". Can't wait for more on Monday Sharon!.

When we say up close and personal for those of you who don't know that pretty much means there is little or no day light between your bodies :wink:

But I only do these moves when I know someone very well and there is a connection when we dance. Otherwise I'd feel uncomfortable doing them.

I did a dirty dancing workshop with someone I've known for over a year and it was a great laugh. And even though it was fixed partners, looking around some people (men & ladies) did look a little uncomfortable at times.

[Sharon]

Jon


and I thought the 'up close and steamy' was our little secret!!

Seeing as the secrets are coming out Em/Dan you may as well know that I really put him through his paces on Friday at St Mary's I even seduced him on the carpet in the church in front of Cliff and Penny during the lesson - we've never laughed so much!!

Action replay on Monday, Wednesday & Thursday me thinks.!!:D

[Jon]

How many more secrets do we have then Sharon? :wink: :waycool:

I think Frank needs to put a disclaimer before you join the forum. Something like:

Participating in this forum will seriously damage your squeaky clean reputation!

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Wendy
This got me thinking about the variations on how comfortable people are with the more up-close-and-personal moves and .. well raunchiness.. for want of a better word. :wink:
I think that there are many factors as to what is uncomfortable; the main ones bing the way were raised and if we had done any othe dancing before.
It's all to do with personal space - you can be hot and steamy without even touching; some of the best flamenco just oozes sex, but the style is miles from the 'blues' crotch grinding that most people think of for raunch.

When dancing this close, small errors can lead to accidental 'petting' (? wrong term?). Hips, waist, sholder, arms etc. are OK, but how embarassed/shocked would your partner be if you screwed up a move? Would they get the wrong idea? would they dance with you again? Would roumors start? How embarassed would you be? :sorry
I think that a lot of the reason that men don't, or only dance close with people they know well (or have already established a dance "reputation" with) is due to this fear factor.

[Graham]

All interesting points, but nobody so far has addressed the central question of why there is variation. Wendy and I have both noticed differences in the way people dance with strangers in other venues. Is it random? Has anyone else noticed this? Is it my imagination? Do I have a doppelganger with lots of UCP partners in the other venues? :wink:

[Franck]

Originally posted by Graham
All interesting points, but nobody so far has addressed the central question of why there is variation. Wendy and I have both noticed differences in the way people dance with strangers in other venues. Is it random? Has anyone else noticed this? Is it my imagination? Do I have a doppelganger with lots of UCP partners in the other venues? :wink: Maybe it is to do with the fact people are more relaxed with strangers / visitors, and more willing to experiment! A bit like tourists abroad, who behave very differently from at home!
I think the teacher's style has an effect (in particular the moves we choose to teach / or not to teach). The demographics of each city are also different, different age groups, different status (ie more single people at some venues). The DJ might have an effect as well, what music gets played etc...
Finally if you have observed that at parties, then it could be that people are more adventurous at the week-end :wink:

Saying all the above, I would say that none of the Ceroc nights are "raunchy", there might be a few dancers who dance in a more "sexy" way, but nothing like the "raunchiness" as displayed in the opening scene of the film: Dirty Dancing...

Franck.

[Fran]

Couldnt resist getting involved in this debate - close to my heart.


This got me thinking about the variations on how comfortable people are with the more up-close-and-personal moves and .. well raunchiness.. for want of a better word. WENDY



Personally, I find that the men at the Edinburgh parties, for instance, (and yes, I know some of them are from Aberdeen ) are more likely to do raunchier moves than the men at the Glasgow parties. And Graham felt the same way about the women WENDY



I have heard many times from male dancers visiting us from down south that they thought that the Edinburgh ladies seemed very much more comfortable to do up close and personal moves compared to other areas in Britain. I would like to say that it is not just the Edinburgh ladies because there are several female dancers in Aberdeen and Dundee who also enjoy this style of dancing - It is not a style that I have noticed in Glasgow ceroc and if it happens I appologise. (well actually Roy does a really nice close move - but he could be Edinburgh as well I guess)

There is a simple reason for this and it is down to the accessiablity of a male lead who can understand and tastefully interperate the slower music and introduce succesfully close moves. When I started Ceroc I was introduced immeadiatley to "Blues" which I am sooo glad because I love that style as does my partner - the Aberdeen one:wink: (to quote from wendy ) There are several people now who dance in Edinburgh, Aberdeen & Dundee who have for a few years experienced blues workshops and dance holidays which incorporate lots of close moves lessons so it seems logical that perhaps in Edinburgh the ladies are used to such moves .


I think the teacher's style has an effect (in particular the moves we choose to teach / or not to teach). The demographics of each city are also different, different age groups, different status (ie more single people at some venues). The DJ might have an effect as well, what music gets played etc...
FRANK

I agree with some of your thoughts Frank, The DJ is extremly important if the right music is not being played it will never inspire you to the full potential and for some of the closer/bluesy moves a slower beat is needed. Edinburgh is lucky because Scott plays fabuloues music to cater for all types at our monthly parties and every one who has visited us from down south has commented on the quality of music - Nigel defended us to Andy the other week (Jump n Jive) on howmuch better the Thursday night music was compared to many southern venues :grin: :grin:

But I am getting off track - getting invoved in a close move move dance has nothing to do with if you are single and looking for somthing more. Some of the best blues dances or simply close move dances I have had the pleasure of having with both in England and Scotland have between with people who are not looking for anything else, indeed from a woman's point of view the safer you feel the more relaxed and fun you can have during the dance. Which raises the difference between a fabby dance and a sleezy/uncomfortable one. Close moves are meant to look sensous and not sleezy.:sick: :sick: It can be a unpleasant feeling for both male and females to be dancing with a partner who over steps the mark. Things are not always what the seem anyway - if you are both in the proper positions
( excuse the pun!!!:sorry ) there is far less body contact than what appears to be. Having said that with the right person ..... :sorry :grin: :grin:

Roger and Ann taught a wonderfull blues workshop a few months ago in Edinburgh and the main part of the bodies touching were only to be the ladies right side and the mans right side - that will come out all wrong, but I know what I mean - but basically it means no personal parts contact - dont think I could have said it any more politley than that. if anyone who was there reads this you may be able to explain it better than me!!



Saying all the above, I would say that none of the Ceroc nights are "raunchy", there might be a few dancers who dance in a more "sexy" way, but nothing like the "raunchiness" as displayed in the opening scene of the film: Dirty Dancing... FRANK


True Frank, for several reasons ceroc does not teach people to slow down the beat or introduce many up close moves and I would not like to called raunchy or offend anyones sensceabilities when Bill and I dance :innocent: :grin: - although Scott did once appear on the dance floor next to us with a electric fan:grin: :grin: but he was only joking.

I suggest you check out a blues room one night Frank:really: - Gives a whole new meaning for the description of up close moves - there is a great blues weekend in January run by Nigel and Nina. All I can say is it pure bliss.:innocent: :innocent: :devil: :devil:

and you simply thank your partner and find another one. so safe, so nice , such fun.


And yes I am talking about just dancing.


Fran:grin: :devil:

[Keith]

Hi Guys,
An impossible dance I think, unless you are confident enough in yourself, or you have had lessons?

There is a simple reason for this and it is down to the accessiablity of a male lead who can understand and tastefully interperate the slower music and introduce succesfully close moves. When I started Ceroc I was introduced immeadiatley to "Blues" which I am sooo glad

I think most males trying to lead this kind of dance feel they may be labelled the 'pervert' if they get it wrong, so never really try it out. If they have that relaxed dance mode; Bill for instance, then they tend to slip into it anyway :wink:
This is a fantastic way to dance & once dancers have been on weekenders & Blues Workshops, there's no stopping them.
The only way forward, therefore is to take the mountain to Glasgow. Introduce a couple of Blues Workshops, with freestyle dancing that evening, aimed predominantly at Blues, or as Fran says, a separate room. Sharp Shock Treatment.
A tip for the guys, get rid of keys, phones & wallets from your pockets :sorry , or at the very least your right pocket, and keep an eye on the lady. If she's not happy explain it's blues & maybe create a little distance, Blues does not have to be a 'no daylight between you' dance it can have a very nice frame to it. Nigel; of Nigel & Nina does this extremely well.
Happy dancing
Keith
:D

[Fran]

This is a fantastic way to dance & once dancers have been on weekenders & Blues Workshops, there's no stopping them.
Keith At least it is not just me then Keith:nice:
The only way forward, therefore is to take the mountain to Glasgow. Introduce a couple of Blues Workshops, with freestyle dancing that evening, aimed predominantly at Blues, or as Fran says, a separate room. Sharp Shock Treatment.
Keith Could you handle that one Frank?:nice: :nice: Its not technically ceroc not sure if some of the moves would have that "bounce" required by HQ -:innocent:
be worth it though!!!

Nigel and Nina have done a few short blues work shops up here
over the last few years, unfortunatley most of the longer ones are down south - But heres hoping:)

sorry we left early the other weekend Keith but looking forward to seeing you and Janey soon , very hopefully before blackpool - great tips about the keys, phones in pokets by the way!!:nice:

Fran

[Franck]

Originally posted by Fran
True Frank, for several reasons ceroc does not teach people to slow down the beat or introduce many up close moves and I would not like to called raunchy or offend anyones sensceabilities when Bill and I dance :innocent: :grin: -Many reasons indeed, and while I do like the music, and like dancing slower, I would not want to introduce "Blues dancing" as part of a regular Ceroc night either!
It all boils down to perceptions, you know that you are havine a fun / safe dance, but to (innocent) by-standers, it might look very different. As you say, what is fun with one person, could be very embarassing with another!
As ever, when teaching Ceroc, we have to take into account the huge variety of people who visit our classes; all of them for different reasons, and at different levels / stages of learning.
As with Dips and drops, it is good to teach the odd "close" move, so that we can explain clearly what is appropriate (and what is not) in term of contact etc...
I think it is great however, that people do Blues dancing, and enjoy it so much; The idea of a special Blues workshop or party could work and be really fun.

I suggest you check out a blues room one night Frank:really: - Gives a whole new meaning for the description of up close movesWell uh :really: :sorry is that an invitation? :wink:
I afraid, my blues credentials stop at the comb and the odd shimmy / sway :nice:
In all fairness though, I don't think I am (or would be) comfortable dancing any closer than I already do... I like the idea of dancing as an un-threatening thing you can do with as many people as possible and at all levels. Bringing in dips / drops or close moves makes it a more restrictive dance, and goes against my demagogic philosophy! :nice:

Franck.

[Franck]

Originally posted by Fran
Could you handle that one Frank?:nice: :nice: Its not technically ceroc not sure if some of the moves would have that "bounce" required by HQ -:innocent:
be worth it though!!!Sure! The "Smooth Grooves" workshop with H in Aberdeen last month was a start, and I am hoping to bring more guest teachers for a variety of workshops next year.
While I might have appeared negative in my previous post, I really like Blues generally, just don't think teaching it fits within a regular Ceroc night (dancing it does though :wink: ).
My ambition is to get more people to dance, and develop a passion for dancing once they realise that they actually can do it!
Once they have that passion, is great to see some dancers (a third or so) explore further and find a style of dancing that suits them! However, as Jayne mentions in another thread on advanced dancing, it is worth remembering what makes Ceroc so effective at inspiring people to dance, before we make too many changes, which could put off more people than they attract!

great tips about the keys, phones in pokets by the way!!:nice: Indeed, try dancing Blues with a kilt and sporran :sick:

Franck.

[Bill]

Originally posted by Gadget
but the style is miles from the 'blues' crotch grinding that most people think of for raunch.I think that a lot of the reason that men don't, or only dance close with people they know well (or have already established a dance "reputation" with) is due to this fear factor. You make the mistake Gadget that many non- Blues dancers do :rolleyes: It's not about crotch griding at all. If you''re doing Blues you aren't anywhwere near crotch to crotch - and if you are you're not doing Blues:sick: :D

The leads comes from the knee and inner thigh and isn't nearly as close as many Salsa and Tango moves. It gives the impression of being close but it's perfectly safe - whatever the onlooker may think. But it's about trust - and fun - and palying to the music and Blues allows dancers to do that more than 'pure' Ceroc I think mainly because it's slower and gives time to interpret - but maybe that's one reaosn why some folk don't like it - it can be harder to dance to slower songs than to faster ones.

Mind you - one of our first Taxi dancers ( remember Luke !?) thought that a comb was pretty sleazy !!!!!!!!

I've done a few workshops now and love the moves, the flow and the music - unfortunately our DJ's think that one 'Blues' record a night is more than enough :sick:

But coming back to Wendy's point - about the differences between the clubs - I really don't know whatthe difference can be as the music tends to be very much the same; the age range appears to be much the same in all the Scottish clubs and even the number of dancers who have done ballroom; salsa etc before might be the same.

If anything I would have expected the number of men doing close moves to be higher in Glasgow than in the east - not sure exactly why !

All I can say is that I'm delighted I found 'Blues' and enjoy dancing close - and not for the reasons some might think :sorry :rolleyes: - I just love music and for me slow = style/elegance/interpretation. And before anyone shoots off saying you can do that to fast music I'd say yes of course you can. Anyone who saw Helen and Craig (Gus) in the final at Blackpool can see that. A great example of interpreting dance music ( still think you guys were robbed by the way !!:grin: )

But sorry Wendy.........can't answer your question.......but can I have a bluesy dance next time :D :wink:

[Franck]

Originally posted by Bill
You make the mistake Gadget that many non- Blues dancers do :rolleyes: It's not about crotch griding at all. If you''re doing Blues you aren't anywhwere near crotch to crotch - and if you are you're not doing Blues:sick: :D
The leads comes from the knee and inner thigh and isn't nearly as close as many Salsa and Tango moves. It gives the impression of being close but it's perfectly safe - whatever the onlooker may think. Aha, but Bill, you make the mistake that Blues dancers do :wink:
Knee / inner thigh contact is (In my opinion) already pretty intimate, and I am sure that many men / women would feel pretty uncomfortable dancing that way with some if not all partners...
I agree though, that if you are crotch to crotch, then you are not doing blues (or even dancing :wink: ).

Franck.

[Fran]

Originally posted by Franck
Indeed, try dancing Blues with a kilt and sporran :sick: I agree with all the women on this site about how lovely it is to see a man in a kilt!!:nice: I particulary like it with the hiking boots and big socks effect.....but your right Frank it does not quite go with blues dancing - the sporran gets in the way!

would like to say that I know blues and close dancing is not for everyone and know many males and females who do not like the invasion of their personal space and that should be respected. The people on the circut who do dance this way do not do it with everyone and as with all dances it comes down to feeling comfortable enough with the particular individual.

The one huge advantage of a special blues event is that there is a general understanding amongst everyone there of what it is all about and there is a safe enviroment for all concerned.

The same goes for a ceroc night as well, I cant think of many other types of social gatherings which take place in such a safe, pleasant and fun enviroment for people - particulary for ladies on their own.
Many women I have spoken to have said that they would not go to a normal night club to dance as it it is not as much fun as at the ceroc parties where everyone is able to ask each other to dance with no agendas.

Fran

[Fran]

The leads comes from the knee and inner thigh and isn't nearly as close as many Salsa and Tango moves. It gives the impression of being close but it's perfectly safe - whatever the onlooker may think. But it's about trust - and fun - and palying to the music and Blues allows dancers to do that more than 'pure' Ceroc BILL That is what I was trying to explain earlier!thankyou:nice:

The interpretaion which Ann and Rodger have of the blues dance is an even safer one - looks can be deciving!!!!!!!

fran

[Bill]

Ok.........so far a few contributions but no answers for you Wendy !:tears:

And it's not just about Blues dancing.........you mentioned 'raunchy' moves- though this definition will change depending on who you ask :what: :p

Combs can be raunchy as can some dips and drops - or is it just any moves that's up close ???? As I saod many salsa and tango moves are even closer - which took me aback a little - but though I didn't get on too well at salsa I would love to Tango - even though it's closer:sorry :yum:

Are Glasgow dancers more uptight ? Need more body space.......

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Bill
You make the mistake Gadget that many non- Blues dancers do :rolleyes: It's not about crotch griding at all.
I know - but it makes more of a dramatic impact said that way. ;) :D

[DavidB]

I'm not a great fan of blues - either the music or the dance. I went to one workshop at Camber last year, and sat down after 5 minutes. I didn't see the point in learning something I would never do. It may not be about 'crotch-grinding' but that is what it looks like. I personally don't think many people look good doing it. I don't mind the occasional 'close' move - its doing it non-stop for a whole song that I dislike. If I want to do a slow, sultry dance, I'd do rumba or West Coast Swing, (or tango if I ever get round to learning it.)

Dancing is described as the vertical expression of horizontal desire. That does not translate into sex while standing up.

(Purely my own opinion. As usual I would expect to be in the minority. And if people enjoy doing it, I'm not going to stop them.)

David

[Jon]

Originally posted by Franck
I agree though, that if you are crotch to crotch, then you are not doing blues (or even dancing :wink: ).

Franck.

How about mans crotch to ladys backside then? There is a move which I can't remember the name of it but my name for it is "The Pelvic Thrust!". I'm not joking it was taught on a Ceroc dirty dancing workshop. Good fun too :yum:

[DavidB]

Originally posted by DavidB
I'm not a great fan of bluesQ. What happens if you play blues music backwards?
A. Your wife returns to you, your dog comes back to life, and you get out of prison.

---------------------------------

HOW TO SING THE BLUES

1. Most blues begin "woke up this morning . . . ."

2. "I got a good woman" is a bad way to begin the blues, unless you stick something nasty in the next line.

I got a good woman--
with the meanest dog in town.

3. Blues are simple. After you have the first line right, repeat it. Then find something that rhymes. Sort of.

Got a good woman
with the meanest dog in town.
He got teeth like Margaret Thatcher
and he weighs about 500 pounds.

4. The blues are not about limitless choice.

5. Blues cars are Chevys and Cadillacs. Other acceptable blues transportation are a Greyhound bus or a southbound train. "Walkin'" plays a major part in the blues lifestyle. So does "fixin' to die."

6. Teenagers can't sing the blues. Adults sing the blues. Blues adulthood means old enough to get the electric chair if you shoot a man in Memphis.

7. You can have the blues in New York City, but not in Brooklyn or Queens. Hard times in Vermont or North Dakota are just a depression. Chicago, St. Louis, and Kansas City are still the best places to have the blues

8. The following colors do not belong in the blues:
a. violet
b. beige
c. mauve
d. taupe

9. You can't have the blues in an office or a shopping mall, because the lighting is all wrong.

10. Good places for the Blues:
a. the highway
b. the jail house
c. the empty bed

Bad places:
a. Nordstrom's
b. Gallery openings
c. Weekend in the Hamptons

11. No one will believe it's the blues if you wear a suit, unless you happen to be an old black man.

12. Do you have the right to sing the blues?

Yes, if:
a. your first name is a southern state--like Georgia
b. you're blind
c. you shot a man in Memphis.
d. you can't be satisfied.

No, if:
a. you once were blind but now can see.
b. you're deaf
c. you have a trust fund.

13. Neither Julio Iglesias nor Barbra Streisand can sing the blues.

14. If you ask for water and baby gives you gasoline, it's the blues.
Other blues beverages are:
a. wine
b. Irish whiskey
c. muddy water

Blues beverages are NOT:
a. Any mixed drink, especially those with a straw
b. Any wine kosher for Passover
c. Yoo Hoo (all flavors)
d. Any drink with an umbrella in it

15. If it occurs in a cheap motel or a shotgun shack, it's blues death. Stabbed in the back by a jealous lover is a great blues way to die. So is the electric chair, substance abuse, or being denied treatment in an emergency room. It is not a blues death, if you die during a liposuction treatment or through complications with rhinoplasty.

16. Some Blues names for Women:
a. Sadie
b. Big Mama
c. Bessie

17. Some Blues Names for Men:
a. Joe
b. Willie
c. Little Willie
d. Lightning

Persons with names like Chad, Skippy, Sidney, Sierra, Sequoia, or Tiffany will not be permitted to sing the blues no matter how many men they shoot in Memphis.

17B. Other Blues Names (Starter Kit)
a. Name of Physical infirmity (Blind, Cripple, Asthmatic)
b. First name (see above) or name of fruit (Lemon, Lime, Kiwi)
c. Last Name of President (Jefferson, Johnson, Fillmore, etc.)
Feel free to mix and match.

David

[filthycute]

I got a good man
And his name is Joe
He shot a man in Memphis
Now he's on death row.

Now i'm here all alone,
Whiskey going to my head.
Can't get no satisfaction cause i got an empty bed

I got the blues baby baby....I got the 'missing my man' blues.

Woke up this morning,
Went walkin' up the highway.
And even though i'm blind
I found New York City.

I got me a dog,
The meanest one in town.
But my jealous lover shot us both and now we're in the ground

I got the blues baby baby.....I got the 'six feet under' blues.

So does she have the right to sing the blues?? :yum:

filthycute x x

[Heather]

:sick: :sick: The Pussie Seekness Blues!!!!

Well Eh'm sitting here in Dundee,
Eh got the pussie-seekness Blues
Oh Eh'm sitting herein Dundee,
Eh got the pussie seekness Blues.
'cos meh dog has got the rabies,
An' he's chew'd meh dancing shoes.

( To be sung with a Dundee accent!!!!!)
Translate 'Pussie-seekness ' as extremely fed up!!
:sick:
:cheers:
Heather

[Fran]

hope this is not getting to far off the track wendy and probebly does not have much to do with your origional question - sorry.
Originally posted by DavidB
If I want to do a slow, sultry dance, I'd do rumba or West Coast Swing, (or tango if I ever get round to learning it.)

Dancing is described as the vertical expression of horizontal desire. That does not translate into sex while standing up.

(Purely my own opinion. As usual I would expect to be in the minority. And if people enjoy doing it, I'm not going to stop them.)

David I find it a shame that people can look down on blues dancing and describe it merely as crotch grinding. Dancing is about communication, passion and many other things - blues is no more sexually orientated than real latin Salsa,Rumba or Tango. Good dancers of these styles exude sexuality and passion in their steps, very often in a far more provocative manner than in blues.
Why is it o.k for people to dance sensously in one style and not another? is it because Blues is still a reliatively new form of dancing could it be suffering form some form of snobbery?

I was Rumba class a few years where a mature gentleman - very experienced and very good at rumba described the Rumba as the nearest thing to sex but without the complications. (maybe he liked it standing up.)

you may not be in a minority David, it has already been mentioned on this thread that this dance style is not for everyone for several different reasons and that should be respected.Its as well we are all different and have a variety of opionions - it makes the world a more interesting place:nice:

But in the defense of blues dancing - like any dance style it takes time and effort to learn the moves, gain the confidence and importantly use the correct etiquette so it is not misinterpreted wrongly between the dance partners or by others watching.
Despite what people may think, the dance itself is not about being locked up with each other for the whole song - there are many opportunities for the partners to be apart to interpret the music - probably even further away than some ceroc moves.:nice:

At the begining of lessons ( particulary beginners) there is quite a lot of time spent concentrating on the starting position and the listening to the music to sink into the flow of the slower beat - maybe this gives the impression that this is all the dance consisits of which is not really the case - well unless its 3am and you are still dancing but dont really have enough energy to anything else but hold each other up and make tiny little steps!!. :nice: :wink:

However it is recognised dance style with its own competition category.

Perhaps I am hyperly sensitive and that has been said before but I always think it is a shame that people can be negative about something when they have never had the desire or time to really find out what is actually going on and experience it.

On a even lighter note I think, in my humble opionion that if people really think blues dancing is like sex standing up - or like watching people having sex standing up, they are either underestimating sex or overestimating the blues dance.- its nothing like it! ......- its only a warm up:devil: well, depending on who you are dancing it with of course.......:nice: :nice:

as usual excuse the spelling.

Fran

[Fran]

well go girls!!! what a talented pair you are!!!
( To be sung with a Dundee accent!!!!!)
Translate 'Pussie-seekness ' as extremely fed up!!
:sick:
:cheers:
Heather ps I am really glad you did the translation bit heather - I thought it was something else!!!!!!:really: :nice:

see you both soon

fran

[filthycute]

Hiya Fran

Ok we'll sing the blues...you dance them :wink:

filthycute x x

[Franck]

Originally posted by Fran
I find it a shame that people can look down on blues dancing and describe it merely as crotch grinding.
~SNIP~
Why is it o.k for people to dance sensously in one style and not another? is it because Blues is still a reliatively new form of dancing could it be suffering form some form of snobbery? Hiya, Fran, I am sorry if you feel Blues is under attack! :sad: I don't think that was the case.
What you are describing above is the perception of Blues. I don't think it is snobbery, but lack of education / knowledge.
All people see (well that's not true, all people remember seeing :wink: ) is a couple dancing very close, and in a very sexual manner!
As you point out, this is a mis-conception, and Blues, executed properly will feel no more sexual than many other dances, possibly less! However, it will still look sexy / sexual.
Originally posted by Fran
At the beginning of lessons ( particulary beginners) there is quite a lot of time spent concentrating on the starting position and the listening to the music to sink into the flow of the slower beat This sounds really good, I believe Ceroc (and other dances) could learn a lot from that approach!
I would love to spend more time experimenting with music and finding beats / under-currents to dance to... and I agree, Blues is great for developing music interpretation skills - because the music is slower, you have to improvise style during the beats!

Originally posted by Fran
its nothing like it! ......- its only a warm up:devil: well, depending on who you are dancing it with of course.......:nice: :nice: Ah, Fran, you were doing so well telling us that Blues wasn't all about sex, and then you just blew it with the above :wink:

Franck.

P.S. I might take you aside next time I see you, to pick up a few tips :nice: :yum: :devil:

[Franck]

Originally posted by filthycute
~snip~
Now i'm here all alone,
Whiskey going to my head.
Can't get no satisfaction cause i got an empty bed
~snip~
I got the blues baby baby....I got the 'missing my man' blues.
~snip~

So does she have the right to sing the blues?? :yum: Wow, excellent fc! :D
I think you have real talent, and we should definitely put it to music... Maybe Heather could do the vocals too :wink:
This has the potential to knock Vem vet etc... off the top place at Ceroc clubs!

I selected my favourite highlights above :really: :wink:

Must get a glass of bourbon and join in the singing... :cheers:

Franck.

[CJ]

Originally posted by filthycute
I (a,min)got a good man
And his (G, maj) name is Joe
He (e,min) shot a man in Memphis
Now he's (F) on death (C) row.

Now i'm (a) here all alone,
Whiskey (G) going to my head.
Can't (e) get no satisfaction cause i (G) got an empty (D)bed

I got the (C)blues baby baby....I got the (D)'missing my man' (e)blues.

Woke up this morning,
Went walkin' up the highway.
And even though i'm blind
I found New York City.

I got me a dog,
The meanest one in town.
But my jealous lover shot us both and now we're in the ground

I got the blues baby baby.....I got the 'six feet under' blues.

So does she have the right to sing the blues?? :yum:

filthycute x x

Chord structure should work for second stanzi, also. Look forward to hearing it @ the 10th Ann... party!!:wink:

Godamit, I need to get out more often.

[CJ]

Should've said...

(small) = minor chord.
(CAPS)= major chord.

Feel free to add any 7ths/9ths you wish. C chord has to be C chord tho, not C add9!!

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Fran
Why is it o.k for people to dance sensously in one style and not another? is it because Blues is still a reliatively new form of dancing could it be suffering form some form of snobbery? It has nothing to do with me "looking down" on blues. I just don't have any burning desire to learn it. My reasons are the same as why anybody else likes or dislikes a particular dance - the music and the style. I've heard exactly the same arguments for and against Lindy, Ceroc, Salsa, Ballroom, and West Coast Swing. Blues isn't any different - some people will love it, most won't mind, and some will hate it.

I don't like the music enough to listen to too much of it, or learn a new dance to do to it. I have heard a lot of blues, I've been to blues clubs and I've seen blues bands. I've done 2 cabaret routines to blues songs, and one of my favourite tracks of all time is a blues song. But I find most of the slower blues music doesn't inspire me, or make me feel like dancing. I just find it depressing.

I find little in the dance that appeals to me (and I have seen quite a lot, including Nigel & Nina, and Roger & Ann.) I haven't seen any moves I would particularly like to learn. I haven't seen any leads or techniques that open up new ideas. I don't like drops etc. I just don't think it suits me.

The only thing different about blues (compared to most dances) is that it can make some people uncomfortable - either dancing it or watching it.

David

[Bill]

Originally posted by DavidB
Blues isn't any different - some people will love it, most won't mind, and some will hate it.

The only thing different about blues (compared to most dances) is that it can make some people uncomfortable - either dancing it or watching it.And you're quite right David. And it's great to have the variety :p I would like ot do some lindy and Boogie Woogie but my legs won't move that quickly !!!!!!!:sick:

But I think one misconception - especially for those who don't know much about the style is the very name - 'Blues'. I really enjoy Blues music but the music we dance to is generally slow and not really 'true' Blues eg Vem Vet is great to blues to but it's hardly what anyone would call a blues record.

I think the key is that it's a style that allows people to interpret a song much more than if you're going hell for leather through a fast track. But as you suggested ( like other dance styles) it can look pretty naff when done badly and a couple are swaying about locked together for 3 minutes with straight backs and legs !:sick:

Many ceroc moves can be used for blues - as Nigel, Nina, Roger and Anne have proved and there's no need to stay that close for the whole track. The really wonderful thing for the woman in particualr is that with a slower song and often more breaks - she can improvise much more and ther's time to really play to the song.

But......................... no-one yet made any effort to answer Wendy's point about if and why there's a difference between dancers on the west and dancers elsewhere !!!!:eek:

ps...............woudl also really liek to Tango David...... maybe one day:nice:

[Fran]

Originally posted by Franck
Ah, Fran, you were doing so well telling us that Blues wasn't all about sex, and then you just blew it with the above :wink:

Franck.

P.S. I might take you aside next time I see you, to pick up a few tips :nice: :yum: :devil:
....................woops!!:innocent: :innocent: - I better had not add anything else or I will get myself into deeper water, :eek:

In my defense - would'nt like to give the wrong impression:nice: I would like to state those of you who know me, know who I regulary blues with and that kind of explains things:nice: :wink:.

take care
Fran - who is thinking that perhaps I should not have added the humour bit:o !!!!!! - but dancing is meant to be fun!:nice:

Happy bluesing everyone who wants to. :yum: :yum:

[Fran]

Originally posted by Ceroc Jock
Should've said...

(small) = minor chord.
(CAPS)= major chord.

Feel free to add any 7ths/9ths you wish. C chord has to be C chord tho, not C add9!!

bet people did'nt know you are a real musician:nice: :nice:

all these talented people

see you on the 23rd if I dont see you before!!

fran

[CJ]

If the truth were told, we just mime but do great dance routines!!:D

Looking forward to seeing you on 23rd. You poor, poor girl. A dance beckons.:yum:

[Bill]

With all this talk of Blues and close moves.....and dancing like a girl none of us have really tried to answer Wendy's initial question which was about 'raunchy' moves - not close - not Blues but raunchy !!

Could you define raunchy Wendy ( I mean can you define the word - not that Wendy is raunchy !!:rolleyes: )


Are you Glasgow men less raunchy than us east coasters ???

[Franck]

Originally posted by Ceroc Jock
I (a,min)got a good man
And his (G, maj) name is Joe
He (e,min) shot a man in Memphis
Now he's (F) on death (C) row.Yeah CJ,
I like it! :D

Could you confirm that the C after death, is not meant to be a G?
When trying it out, the C sounded a bit too cheerful for the tone of the song :wink:

Likely we are singing 2 very different versions though... Maybe we should bring a guitar to the next night and have a bash!

Franck.

[Bill]

Originally posted by Franck
Yeah CJ,
I like it! :D

Likely we are singing 2 very different versions though... Maybe we should bring a guitar to the next night and have a bash!

Franck.
mmmmmmmmmmm:what: :eek: do we get discount then ?

One song.........two versions - at the same time !!!!!:rolleyes: Sing it in Franch Franck and it'll sound like one of those songs you play ( and no-one can dance to :p ).

Can't wait ( now that's sarcastic!!!)

[Franck]

Originally posted by Bill
mmmmmmmmmmm:what: :eek: do we get discount then ?

One song.........two versions - at the same time !!!!!:rolleyes: Sing it in Franch Franck and it'll sound like one of those songs you play ( and no-one can dance to :p ).

Can't wait ( now that's sarcastic!!!) hehe, that's more like it Bill :wink:
No discount, and it will be by selective admission only.
Re. that French song, I'll make sure I don't play it again when you're around, though I might try another French track next time, to see if it works for you!

Franck.

[CJ]

Originally posted by Franck
Yeah CJ,
I like it! :D

Could you confirm that the C after death, is not meant to be a G?
When trying it out, the C sounded a bit too cheerful for the tone of the song :wink:

Likely we are singing 2 very different versions though... Maybe we should bring a guitar to the next night and have a bash!

Franck.

2 be honest, F to G felt too obvious. I used F 2nd inversion(i.e. C in the bass) to root position open C and felt it was interesting enough without sounding "wrong." Oh, and the C is right on Death, not after:wink:

Hey, it was 2 in the morning, what more do u want??:rolleyes:

[CJ]

Originally posted by Bill
Could you define raunchy Wendy ( not that Wendy is raunchy !!:rolleyes: )

Keep digging, my friend, keep digging.:cheers:

[Franck]

Originally posted by Ceroc Jock
2 be honest, F to G felt too obvious. I used F 2nd inversion(i.e. C in the bass) to root position open C and felt it was interesting enough without sounding "wrong." Oh, and the C is right on Death, not after:wink:

Hey, it was 2 in the morning, what more do u want??:rolleyes: Take your point about it being a bit predictable, but this is blues we are talking about!
Still think the C is a bit too bright :wink:

I did realise the C was on death, but I was describing its position in your text...

Franck.

P.S. I am sure you make your best compositions at 2.00am :waycool: :cheers:

[Bill]

Originally posted by Ceroc Jock


Keep digging, my friend, keep digging.:cheers:

Well maybe she is......... :wink: :D I don't know her that well !:grin: but don't think I've done any raunchy moves....... well none I'd regard as raunchy :eek: :D

Maybe I should try a few next time we dance Wendy :cheers:

[Wendy]

Jeez....

- feel quite chuffed to get this response to my very first thread !!! :waycool:

on the other hand....

- feel like I should start a PhD on all this, armed with a highlighter pen, a thesaurus , a dictionary, an endless supply of coffee and roll-ups (oops slipped back to 1981 for a minute :o )

Whew !!!! There is so much to read... so much to quote and I play guitar so am dying to have a go at that song !!!! :wink:

Not enough wee yellow faces ..... sigh ....

I did look up raunchy and .. well ... emm... it doesn't mean what I thought it meant ... :sorry.... I didn't think it was quite as close (hee hee ) to sleazy as it appears to be....

So this is what I'll be writing in my vocabulary notebook 1000 times before I start another thread in my life ever !!!!

raunchy 1. lecherous or smutty 2. slovenly or dirty


Absolutely not what I meant, honest !!!!! Can I borrow that spade Bill !!!

Still working on what I did mean ... with my tail between my legs (Franck is that a move ???? :wink: ) so bear with me or is it bare with me ... I'll just go and look that up ...
:innocent: :innocent: :innocent:

Wx

[Fran]

It was a good thread though Wendy!!!:nice: :nice:

Fran.

[Wendy]

Fran, I've loved your comments throughout this !!! and I KNOW you know what I'm talking about !!!!

It has been a good thread hasn't it :wink: ????

Wx

[Heather]

:sorry :sorry Sorry Fran!!!! It's just dawned on me how "pussie-seekness" could be misconstrued!!!!!!!!:sorry :sorry
Only Dundonians would know for sure what I meant and how it should be said!!!!!!!LOL
For anyone who is wondering it is pronounced puh-say seek-ness and if you ever hear a Dundonian proclaim that he/she is pussieseek you will know that they are expressing that they are extremely pissed off!!!!! Ye ken hen ?????????
As for 'Gadgie', sorry Gadget it is not as you might have hoped, a Glaswegian term of endearment, it's actually a Dundonian insult!!!
Sorry that should be on another thread- but hey - who cares!!!!!!
:cheers:
Heather

[Fran]

Originally posted by Wendy


It has been a good thread hasn't it :wink: ????

Wx

most certainly has wendy - I just loooooooooove blues - but didnt mean to get on a soap box though. I am normally so quiet!!!!

well unless the subject of blues and dyslexia comes up then feel free to tell me to be hush up!! as long as no one shouts at me:nice: :nice:

its been fun - and quite revealing:wink:

fran. x

[Fran]

Originally posted by Heather
:sorry :sorry Sorry Fran!!!! It's just dawned on me how "pussie-seekness" could be misconstrued!!!!!!!!:sorry :sorry
Only Dundonians would know for sure what I meant and how it should be said!!!!!!!LOL
For anyone who is wondering it is pronounced puh-say seek-ness and if you ever hear a Dundonian proclaim that he/she is pussieseek you will know that they are expressing that they are extremely pissed off!!!!! Ye ken hen ?????????

:cheers:
Heather

thanks for clearing that up Heather!!:nice: :nice: I just had the impression it meant somthing else - but never let it be said that I am not broad minded!!

must admit I have just tried to break it down and pronounce it and have failed miserably :( good job no one was listening!!!- so will need some elecution lessons from you next time I see you if that is o.k :nice: :nice:


take care fran:grin:

[Tiggerbabe]

Originally posted by Fran


must admit I have just tried to break it down and pronounce it and have failed miserably :( good job no one was listening!!!- so will need some elecution lessons from you next time I see you if that is o.k :nice: :nice:


take care fran:grin:

Try this then Fran - puss (as in the stuff that's in a boil - yuk!)
add "eh" to the end of it (as in what did you just say?) then seek (as in go find!)


and there you have it pusseh seek (totally dumbfounded and heartily sick of everything!) - it's a great term - and well used in Dundee that's for sure :wink: :wink:

[Fran]

Originally posted by Sheena



and there you have it pusseh seek (totally dumbfounded and heartily sick of everything!) - it's a great term - and well used in Dundee that's for sure :wink: :wink:

.... thanks Sheena- that will go with the circles then? :nice: :wink:
I like the circles one though - its very logical:grin:

I think the pussy one loses something because of my not very scottish accent. Oh my god!!!! - as I type I have just realised the spelling difference Heather in the pusse which was why I thought it was something else!!!!!!!sorry there is'nt a little face for embarresment on the smiles but take it from me,I would have to put a few on!!!!:sorry

yes there is I have just found it,:o :o :o

fran...........

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Heather
As for 'Gadgie', sorry Gadget it is not as you might have hoped, a Glaswegian term of endearment, it's actually a Dundonian insult!!!
I hope it's not a recent term - I would be most insulted.:(:rolleyes:
What does 'gadgie' refer to then?

[Bill]

Originally posted by Sheena


Try this then Fran - puss (as in the stuff that's in a boil - yuk!)
add "eh" to the end of it (as in what did you just say?) then seek (as in go find!)






The Dundee accent is out on it's own !!!!!!!!!!:p :wink: Just as well that the Dundee gang can all speak non-Dundonian as well otherwise we'd need translators :D .................are all oyu lot the posh Dundonians then who live in the 'Ferry ?????

[horsey_dude]

You could stand there for the whole song and grind your crotches together and not look sexy....

When you have a real connection with the person you are dancing with its like flirting or even making love with them (not literally) and it is as if no one else is there.

I only ever really dance like that with people I know well and have danced with for years. Its just like acting our a love scene in a movie. You have to put every thing into it.

The real trick is not "sexy" moves but eye contact and expression. I will do close moves with women if it is something that fits with the song but if I don't like them it never has that same spark. Dancing with someone you reallllllyy don't like is horrible, its like a one night stand with someone after getting drunk (I don't do that by the way). Sometimes you have to out of politeness........

[Graham]

Originally posted by horsey_dude
its like a one night stand with someone after getting drunk (I don't do that by the way). Sometimes you have to out of politeness........ So in NZ the polite thing to do after getting drunk is to have a one night stand with someone ? :what: :really: :wink:

[horsey_dude]

Originally posted by Graham
So in NZ the polite thing to do after getting drunk is to have a one night stand with someone ? :what: :really: :wink:

Ok maybe that was not a good analogy.......

[Fran]

Originally posted by horsey_dude
its like a one night stand with someone after getting drunk (I don't do that by the way). Sometimes you have to out of politeness........
such chivalry!! :sick: who said it was dead!!:wink:

you do have a point about dancing close to some one that you may not get on with for what ever reason, it can be uncomfortable - but, in blues the woman can control how close she allows herself to go to the man and if the man knows what he is doing and is leading well , he can also maintain an suitable distance if he needs to. But when you do the "right" conection it is wonderful.

fran:nice:

[CJ]

have been re-reading this thread...

who says the quality of the Forum has gone down hill recently?!?!?!?:eek: :eek:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[fletch]

its like a one night stand with someone after getting drunk (I don't do that by the way). .

Yes my sex life took a real dip when I stoped drinking :really:

At least im in control enough to make the choise now :clap:

[Andreas]

Took me years to get to a point where I was comfortable with close moves, but I think I am alright with them now. :D At the end of the day we are talking personal body space and mutual respect. Dancing close can only be fun if both partners are comfortable with it and each other.

[Lory]

Dancing with someone you reallllllyy don't like is horrible, its like a one night stand with someone after getting drunk (I don't do that by the way). Sometimes you have to out of politeness........

Last night, I watched a woman's face, turn from a huge smile, to an instant look of dismay, as she finished one dance, only to be asked immediately by another guy she obviously didn't like, she clearly knew him, I could just tell from her body language that she was screaming inside.. Oh please let the floor open up and swallow me now! :tears: :tears:

Every inch of her body was stiff and she wouldn't look at him at all, or even anywhere in his direction. :sick:

He, on the other hand seemed totally oblivious and didn't take his eyes off her, to the point of learing at her and trying to hold her close.:rolleyes:

It was painful just to watch :(