London Mondays?

[DaveD]

I'm due another trip to London in a couple of weeks but on a Monday this time - so no Jive Bar or Hipsters :sad:

Any recommendations for a Monday night from you Southern Jivers?

Dave

[Robin]

I'm due another trip to London in a couple of weeks but on a Monday this time - so no Jive Bar or Hipsters :sad:

Any recommendations for a Monday night from you Southern Jivers?

Dave

You could come and sample our Monday "club" at Finchley ...we do play a mean tune or 2 too !

'Twas another great night tonight ... still on a buzz after last nights JiveMasters.

[Sheepman]

If you want something rather different, don't forget Jango Jive at Kent House, Hammersmith. I know there's a thread with the details somewhere.

Greg

[stewart38]

If you want something rather different, don't forget Jango Jive at Kent House, Hammersmith. I know there's a thread with the details somewhere.

Greg

My friend went and thought it was great but only 20 odd there ??

Think one of the teachers have changed already

[Mary]

Think one of the teachers have changed already

The teacher is the one and only Amir.
:worthy:

M

[stewart38]

The teacher is the one and only Amir.
:worthy:

M

quote from friend

"""Kate wasn't teaching with Amir which I was disappointed by"""

[latinlover]

My friend went and thought it was great but only 20 odd there ??

Think one of the teachers have changed already

:yeah:

but what a twenty!
will & kate
mary & tony
Chris A
sparkles
sheepman
TWK
DiviSSSSSima
others I don't know their names
oh ..and me & sue
BUT
not worth it if you want full-on MJ ,though - you could always try west drayton or I think there's one at Kodak in Harrow on 8th only(it's a 70's night) -addresses on the ceroc website (sorry not bright enough to insert a link)
:cheers:

[DaveD]

Thanks for all the ideas - quite fancy the "Jango". Been to a couple of Amir & Kate's workshops :waycool: - last one @Southport weekend.

Might give it a try

Dave

[foxylady]

Also Clapham, which I haven't been too, but its supposed to be fun...

[Robin]

You could come and sample our Monday "club" at Finchley ...we do play a mean tune or 2 too !



Sorry to quote myself but forgot to say that there was around 150 dancers last Monday ! :whistle:

[Divissima]

It would be lovely to see you at Jango, Dave. Haven't seen you in ages. Just let us know if you are coming and I'll send you some instructions on how to get there.

[Sheepman]

Also Clapham, which I haven't been too, but its supposed to be fun... Maybe, but having been seen the place when I was there for a comedy night, the 10 minute journey would be at least 10 minutes too far when it comes to dancing.
I know it seems to be part of Ceroc history, but IMO dingy nightclubs, with small and sticky floors, do not make good dance venues.
That doesn't mean I'm slating all night clubs, because Jumpin Jacks (have I got the name right) in Glasgow is an excellent venue.

Greg

[bigdjiver]

Clapham Mondays moved from Jongleurs quite some time ago. I always had a good time at that "dingy nightclub", and enjoyed a drink and the jazz below afterwards. I have not been to "The Grand", but it was touted as a flashy nightclub - section of glass floor etc.

[DaveD]

Thanks for all the info - not short of choices now! I guess it will depend on which hotel I end up in and how easy it is to get out to the venue. WIll keep you posted

Dave

[DaveD]

Decided after a 5 am start to the day I couldn't cope with the "full on MJ night" recommended by LL, so went to Jango. It was also only a couple of stops on the Tube.

A select crowd (apart from me of course) including some forum folk (Bigdjiver is the only name I can remember), so thanks to all for a fun night. :clap: The Ceroc "first move" will never be the same again :wink:

Thanks to Divissima for recommending it - sorry I missed you.

DAve

[ChrisA]

The Ceroc "first move" will never be the same again :wink:

Unfortunately, of course, it will :devil:

I wish Ceroc taught both versions. The Amir version is far nicer IMHO - and with the reduced beat count is a very useful alternative. It's also easier to lead, and follow, and looks much nicer, also IMHO.

Occasionally the extra count in the Ceroc version is handy for the music, though, so no need to bin it altogether. :nice:

Chris

[Zebra Woman]

Unfortunately, of course, it will :devil:

I wish Ceroc taught both versions. The Amir version is far nicer IMHO - and with the reduced beat count is a very useful alternative. It's also easier to lead, and follow, and looks much nicer, also IMHO.

Occasionally the extra count in the Ceroc version is handy for the music, though, so no need to bin it altogether. :nice:

Chris
Amir's version feels much much nicer too. :worthy: ....Sometimes I worry about the maths though. What happens to make up for that missed beat?

I did his class once as a lead to try and understand it, but I was too overwhelmed with the task of re-learning the first move to do the counting aswell :confused:

[ChrisA]

Amir's version feels much much nicer too. :worthy: ....Sometimes I worry about the maths though. What happens to make up for that missed beat?

It's not actually missed - it depends what you're trying to achieve.

If you step back on 1, then the step back at the end of an Amir 1st move is on 5, which means you can do a whole extra one (or for instance a basket with the same exit - Amir's version differs from the Ceroc version in exactly the same way) to step back on the 1 at the beginning of the next 8-count.

Making sequences of moves fit naturally into 8-counts (which is how Nigel teaches) makes it very natural to fit what you're doing into the phrasing of most MJ music, and I think it contributes to making it feel nice.

Whereas the Ceroc version means you'd step back on 6. This makes 8-count phrasing more difficult, but it's handy sometimes if you've been mucking about with the speed of the moves, as I often do.

Remind me sometime and I'll try and show you what I mean.

Chris

[Zebra Woman]

If you step back on 1, then the step back at the end of an Amir 1st move is on 5, which means you can do a whole extra one (or for instance a basket with the same exit - Amir's version differs from the Ceroc version in exactly the same way) to step back on the 1 at the beginning of the next 8-count.

Making sequences of moves fit naturally into 8-counts (which is how Nigel teaches) makes it very natural to fit what you're doing into the phrasing of most MJ music, and I think it contributes to making it feel nice.

Whereas the Ceroc version means you'd step back on 6. This makes 8-count phrasing more difficult, but it's handy sometimes if you've been mucking about with the speed of the moves, as I often do.

Remind me sometime and I'll try and show you what I mean.

Chris

Aha ...now I'm thinking Amir's first move is only taking 4 counts. Is that right?

Yes, please show me (but only if there is a crappy song playing).

I led Lory in the Blues room for one dance, she was lovely :drool: but I just hated the way I couldn't do to her the moves I like for me, because when I lead I dance Ceroc. I want to change my leading of a firstmove and basket to Amir's way.

[ChrisA]

Aha ...now I'm thinking Amir's first move is only taking 4 counts. Is that right?

Er, kinda. The lady's footwork is:

Step her back on her R on 1
Lead her forward L to step R on 2
Turn on L and step back R on 3 (same as Ceroc up to here, except it's all step-step instead of twist)
Forward on to L turning out on R on 4
Keep turning out and under on L step back R on 5

The 5 is the step back at the beginning of the next move. Amir often teaches this with the guy stepping forward on 1 instead of back, which I also think feels very nice.

Easier to demo than describe. But you do it all the time when you dance it with me (and to nice tracks too) :flower:

Chris

[Zebra Woman]

Yes yes.....Good explanation. :worthy: I have just done all that with thin air and it feels right. Thanks
ZW :flower:

[ChrisA]

The lady's footwork is:

By the way, for those who are going "footwork.... arrrrgh", note that the lady is just stepping RLRLRLRLR through all this.

So it really is quite easy!

Chris

[Divissima]

A select crowd (apart from me of course) including some forum folk (Bigdjiver is the only name I can remember), so thanks to all for a fun night. :clap: The Ceroc "first move" will never be the same again :wink:

Thanks to Divissima for recommending it - sorry I missed you.

DAveOh no! I missed Dave and Bigdjiver :tears:
Hope to catch you both some other time.

[DavidB]

First Move
The standard first move (excluding the return) is based on east coast swing (ie traditional rock'n'roll/6-count Lindy/ballroom jive). Starting from open position you bring the lady into closed position, and then turn her under the arm. Both moves are 6 count moves, so the whole thing takes 12 counts. Since Ceroc only counts every other beat, it takes 6 Ceroc counts.

You can take an East Coast Swing dancer and do the first 6 steps of a first move, and they will follow without a problem. It is the return that catches them out, because they would want it to take 6 counts (3 Ceroc counts) as well.

Phrasing
The idea of phrasing is to make moves start and end with the phrases in the music. A phrase is a verse or chorus. It is not every 8 counts.

Not many dances naturally fit the phrasing in the music. WCS and Lindy both have 6 count and 8 count moves. Quickstep and Foxtrot have a lot of 6 count moves. Waltz has 3 count moves, but often groups them into 6 moves, not 8.

What you end up doing is ignoring phrasing completely, grouping moves (eg 4 6-count moves + 1 8-count move takes 32 counts), making everything take 8 counts, or extending/contracting moves so they take more/less time.

There are additional complications in Modern Jive:
- Moves can take an arbitraty number of counts
- When does a move start, and when does it finish? ie the step back at the end of a move is the step back at the start of the next.

Which is the best way of doing it - I have no idea!


By the way, for those who are going "footwork.... arrrrgh", note that the lady is just stepping RLRLRLRLR through all this.It is the 'L' bit that makes it difficult for me. My footwork is usually 'R...............'

[Will]

First Move
The standard first move ..........(blah blah blah).....'

OK Smartie Pants, is the Hokey Cokey line dancing?

[ChrisA]

The idea of phrasing is to make moves start and end with the phrases in the music. A phrase is a verse or chorus. It is not every 8 counts.

...... :yeah:

Sorry if I contributed to any confusion by referring to 8-count phrasing, thanks for picking me up on it (I wondered if you would ;) ).

But phrases are often 8 bars (32 beats, 16 MJ counts), so two 8-count combos (for want of a better word) are often very easy to fit into a phrase.

Chris

[ChrisA]

It is the 'L' bit that makes it difficult for me. My footwork is usually 'R...............'
This claim that you just stand still when you dance must be one of the commonest myths perpetrated on this forum.

Folks, he moves about just as much as anyone else. :flower:

(But doesn't flail as much as many :devil: )

[DavidB]

This claim that you just stand still when you dance must be one of the commonest myths perpetrated on this forum.True - just ask Christine on Friday about the dance we had when I sat down for the whole track...

[Geordieed]

My personal favourite was the one you and Will had with Janine at RebelYell while you were sitting on the stage. My excuse for trying to get back onto the correct foot was I thought it was a good opportunity to syncopate.

I don't like to think that moves should be automatically brought out one after the other. From a personal preferrence it is the cement inbetween each move that builds the dance into something better. I would evaluate my own ability as a dancer on what is done in this time and not coming up with move after move. It is this that classes don't teach you. Admittedly this is new to me so this is a view of a beginner.