Trick or Treat ?

[foxylady]

Maybe its just me, but I have always thought that this is an american invention that has no place in England, and have never provided 'treats', and have discouraged callers..... (essentially the lights are off and we never answer the door....)

This evening we returned from a weekend away so some lights were on in the house, but we didn't answer the door, and at 8.30, an upstairs window was smashed (by a thrown glass candle holder)....

Did I deserve this? Is this what this country is coming to? I haven't called the police - what could they do ? I just can't believe it !

[jivecat]

Did I deserve this? Is this what this country is coming to? I haven't called the police - what could they do ? I just can't believe it !

No, you didn't deserve it. And I don't blame you for being completely p***d off. I think you should at least report it to the police so that they are aware that there is a problem, though there won't be anything they can do about it.

I notice that a few people have put up "No trick or treater" posters on their doors. Do you think that would make any difference next year?

I put a pumpkin in my window and have had 4 sets of immaculately behaved T or Ters- one child appeared to be about 3. Most groups were accompanied by parents hovering in the background.

I agree that Trick or Treat is an American import but Hallowe'en has always been celebrated in Britain and may well have been taken to America by British settlers in the first place. I loved Hallowe'en when I was little though we didn't Trick or Treat. However we did go from door to door carol-singing on New Years Day and expected to be given money for it, which we kept. How bl**dy archaic is that, sounds like something out of Thomas Hardy!

Not that this is any comfort for you sorting your window out. What a drag to come home to after a weekend away.

[Graham]

Although Trick-or-Treat is an American tradition, there is a very similar Scottish custom known as guising. Children would dress up (wear a disguise) and would go round the houses of people they knew and perform a party-piece in order to receive a reward. Sadly this custom has now been pretty much subsumed by the American import, largely due to the influence of movies such as E.T.

Edit: Forgot to say I'm really sorry to hear about your experience, Foxylady. :sad: As you say, it's made all the more unpleasant by the fact that there's not really anything you can do.

[Tiggerbabe]

Sadly this custom has now been pretty much subsumed by the American import.
It's still alive and kicking here in Monifieth - usually my younger son goes around with a group of his friends (mums hovering in the background as previously mentioned) and we then end up at one house where we do the dooking for apples, treacle scones or donuts on strings, that you've to eat without using your hands to catch them. The children still do their "turn" - songs, poems, jokes or whatever and we only visit houses that have children in the same class, close neigbours etc
Some people do give the children money but most often it's sweets, monkey nuts, manderins, apples etc

[ToeTrampler]

Although Trick-or-Treat is an American tradition, there is a very similar Scottish custom known as guising. Children would dress up (wear a disguise) and would go round the houses of people they knew and perform a party-piece in order to receive a reward.

When I was a child guising involved going around on the few nights before Guy Fawkes (why is now just called bonfire night :( ) carrying our bonfire 'Guy', usually in a pram or wheelbarrow, and asking neighbours "penny for the Guy". No trick, treat, performance or dressing up of any kind was involved - nothing to do with Halloween at all. The money collected then went towards the firework fund (or sparklers in later years).

I'd always assumed up until now that it was called guising because it involved carrying around a 'Guy'; never knew it was anything to do with a disguise. Maybe that's why we never managed to collect that much :tears:

[Sparkles]

You poor thing!
I had the wing mirror smashed off my car by some kids about a week ago, it's important you tell the police about these things when they happen, even if you know they can't do anything, it's better that they are made aware.

If I can help, just let me know :hug:

S. xxx

[ElaineB]

Hi Foxylady - I am really sorry that the little b***tards did that to you. As others say, do tell the Police! The culprits are inevitably local, so make a fuss - go to the newspapers as well. Who knows, with enough publicity, they may actually feel guilty!

Elaine

[Lynn]

This evening we returned from a weekend away so some lights were on in the house, but we didn't answer the door, and at 8.30, an upstairs window was smashed (by a thrown glass candle holder)....

Did I deserve this? Is this what this country is coming to? I haven't called the police - what could they do ? I just can't believe it ! Really sorry to hear about that. Last year a similiar thing though not as bad - didn't answer the door, a week later the front gate was stolen. I did call the police and they said they would tell their night patrols to look out for it. We found it the next day in a neighbours hedge.* When I was young children did go round the door looking for sweets etc but the retaliation aspect of the 'trick' is new, I think it is from the US and it seems that its giving children the idea of damaging property.

*Funny thing was that same night the police were called out to a noisy party and their landrover was parked right beside my gate, under a streetlight and they didn't see it. So much for telling the patrols to look out for it!

[Dreadful Scathe]

Halloween has its roots in Britain, it just became very popular and very commercialised in the US. Guising always was and still is popular in Scotland but has nothing whatsoever to do wih Guy Fawkes Night, but the closeness of the 2 events always created some confusion. In Scotland you wont get much if you dont sing or dance or at least tell a joke, last time I did it the standard payment was fruit, sweets and small amounts of money. Samhain, the end of summer pagan festival, was the original celebration but things like the disguise and the association with death are all Christian additions later on. Those pesky Christians ;).

Foxy Lady : Theres not much you can do about hooligans like that, hope they get caught, but you need to call the police! They are likely to do it to some little old lady who also doesnt answer hr door :(.

[Graham]

last time I did it the standard payment was fruit, sweets and small amounts of money.
I take it Fi refused to pretend to be your mum again this year then? :wink:

[MartinHarper]

An american invention that has no place in England

Actually a re-import, as Graham says.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trick-or-treat


things like the disguise and the association with death are all Christian additions later on.

Interesting - got a reference for this? I had thought that the disguises at least were pre-Christian.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Actually a re-import, as Graham says.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trick-or-treat



Interesting - got a reference for this? I had thought that the disguises at least were pre-Christian.
heres one reference (http://www.greenbard.8m.com/halloween.htm) - with a few source quotes at the bottom

[ToeTrampler]

...Guising always was and still is popular in Scotland but has nothing whatsoever to do wih Guy Fawkes Night, but the closeness of the 2 events always created some confusion...

It would now seem that I have lived (at least part of ) my childhood in a state of error and confusion :confused: and it also looks like I am possibly responsible for extorting money from my neighbours under false pretences. :eek: :blush:

Has no-one heard of "A penny for thr Guy" and collecting money for fireworks?

[Dreadful Scathe]

It would now seem that I have lived (at least part of ) my childhood in a state of error and confusion :confused: and it also looks like I am possibly responsible for extorting money from my neighbours under false pretences. :eek: :blush:

Has no-one heard of "A penny for thr Guy" and collecting money for fireworks?
yes - but that happens on the 5th of November. Different celebration entirely :)

[jivecat]

yes - but that happens on the 5th of November. Different celebration entirely :)

I suspect that all of the celebrations around the end of October are relics of pre-Christian religious practices. Guy Fawkes turned up in the 17c but I bet they were lighting bonfires for millenia before that. In the same way, the early Christian Fathers didn't have a clue when Jesus was born or when he died, so they hijacked the existing pagan solstice festivals in a cynical but effective bid to get the rank and file on board.

Strange that Hallowe'en was never Christianised (As far as I know?) but is still alive and well today.

[Graham]

Obviously bonfires were not invented to commemorate Guy Fawkes, but I believe that having a bonfire celebration at the beginning of November really did originate with the Gunpowder Plot - I'm not aware of any other cultures doing this other than the UK.

Hallowe'en never Christianised? :confused: But it's All Hallows Eve: the day before All Saints Day.

[jivecat]

Obviously bonfires were not invented to commemorate Guy Fawkes, but I believe that having a bonfire celebration at the beginning of November really did originate with the Gunpowder Plot - I'm not aware of any other cultures doing this other than the UK.

Hallowe'en never Christianised? :confused: But it's All Hallows Eve: the day before All Saints Day.


I think lighting bonfires as a religious practice is much older than that though I don't know specifically about the November ones.

I should have thought of the All Hallows bit. Do you know what significance it has in the Christian calendar?

[jivecat]

If you enjoy a good bonfire try looking at http://www.geocities.com/~huathe/festivals.html

[Graham]

The link DS provided has a detailed explanation of the religious significance of Hallowe'en. In short, by the fourth century, the number of saints had grown to such an extent that it was impractical to have separate days of the year to celebrate each one. So All Saints Day was introduced to commemorate all the saints who didn't already have their own day. At first this was celebrated on different days in different locations, but was fixed at 1st November in the eighth century. Later All Souls Day (a day to pray for all the souls who have ever and will ever exist) was fixed as 2nd November to create a 3-day religious festival starting on All Hallows Eve (31st October).

[stewart38]

You poor thing!
I had the wing mirror smashed off my car by some kids about a week ago, it's important you tell the police about these things when they happen, even if you know they can't do anything, it's better that they are made aware.


S. xxx

Did you see the kids do it or are you assuming it was kids and not a parent ?

I gave money away two years ago and big mistake seemed everyone within 40 miles came around

Moved and did same thing as had no sweets and I dont 'ignore the knocks on door' for reasons already given but got a lot less calls. This year I got no one who hadnt dressed up and I think its better if they make the effort (live in new area)

[foxylady]

Thanks for all the support on here :hug: . I was feeling extremely shaky and vunerable yesterday. I will never know who did it or even why - my assumption that it was aggrieved 'trick-or-treaters' comes only because of my general feeling of unease re living in London.

I know I'm scrooge like when it comes to Halloween, but that stems from my children being absolutely petrified of anyone dressed up when they were small, so we have always avoided it ! Interested that the original intention of 'trick' was a performance of some kind - what a shame we can't get back to that....


Foxy
( :mad: actually more cross today, because the glazier took 9 hours not to turn up !! They've promised me between 9 and 10 tomorrow - who'll give me odds !)

[drathzel]

In N.Ireland we dont celebrate Guy Fawkes night! Dont know why? Maybe because we dont have enough things to burn. One bonfire night a year is plenty!!!!

I love to see the kids dressed up at Halloween, as long as they are not knocking on my door!

:hug:

[ElaineB]

Thanks for all the support on here :hug: . I was feeling extremely shaky and vunerable yesterday. I will never know who did it or even why - my assumption that it was aggrieved 'trick-or-treaters' comes only because of my general feeling of unease re living in London.

I know I'm scrooge like when it comes to Halloween, but that stems from my children being absolutely petrified of anyone dressed up when they were small, so we have always avoided it ! Interested that the original intention of 'trick' was a performance of some kind - what a shame we can't get back to that....


Foxy
( :mad: actually more cross today, because the glazier took 9 hours not to turn up !! They've promised me between 9 and 10 tomorrow - who'll give me odds !)

Hi Foxy,

You shouldn't feel that you need to explain why you don't like Halloween - my feeling is that just because you don't want to take part, you shouldn't have to suffer the consequences. I would rather neighbours checked first if one wants to be part of the 'game', but I suspect that in your case it was some yobbie little 12 year old!

I don't like Halloween, Valentines day or party bags! The reason is that I don't like to be coerced into taking part by commercial enterprise. And the person who invented party bags should be shot! :rofl:

Elaine

[Gojive]

Hi Foxy,

You shouldn't feel that you need to explain why you don't like Halloween - my feeling is that just because you don't want to take part, you shouldn't have to suffer the consequences. I would rather neighbours checked first if one wants to be part of the 'game', but I suspect that in your case it was some yobbie little 12 year old!

I don't like Halloween, Valentines day or party bags! The reason is that I don't like to be coerced into taking part by commercial enterprise. And the person who invented party bags should be shot! :rofl:

Elaine

:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:

[Lynn]

In N.Ireland we dont celebrate Guy Fawkes night!...Maybe because we dont have enough things to burn. Well, you see plenty of burning cars at certain times of the year in certain areas! :what:


One bonfire night a year is plenty!!!! :yeah: :rofl:

[drathzel]

Well, you see plenty of burning cars at certain times of the year in certain areas! :what:

:yeah: But there is no gun powder involved! :tears:



:yeah: :rofl:

Thank you, at least someone got my joke!!!!

:hug: