Malicious Rant against Ceroc!!

[Gus]

Well ... actualy not really. :wink: Was wondering. Ceroc took a brave decision to change the format of the beginners class, changed moves around, laid down the moves to be taught, introduced advanced lessons and introduced Ceroc Affiliates .... all big brave moves ... AND???? Has it made any difference? What has been your experince of these changes? Should the other MJ outfits be following suite or has it been all smoke and mirrors?

[Lou]

What has been your experince of these changes?

What changes? :whistle:

[jivecat]

Well ... actualy not really. :wink:



Oooo, that's naughty, Gus. You obviously know that I can't resist a bit of malicious ranting!




Was wondering. Ceroc took a brave decision to change the format of the beginners class, changed moves around, laid down the moves to be taught, introduced advanced lessons and introduced Ceroc Affiliates .... all big brave moves ... AND???? Has it made any difference? What has been your experince of these changes? Should the other MJ outfits be following suite or has it been all smoke and mirrors?

Like Lou, I've noticed very few changes from the grass roots point of view. The occasional change to a move, a few minutes very basic footwork at the beginning of a class (which lots of folk will miss 'cos they haven't arrived yet.) No sign of advanced classes in my neck of the woods. Moves to be taught were already laid down as far as I could see. And what is a Ceroc Affiliate?

[Gadget]

To be honest, the only change I have noticed has been the change of moves into and out of "begginer" status.

The 'footwork drill' seems to have been left by the wayside (which is a shame IMHO - I think that it would work well; perhaps a little bit shorter and built up as per the rest of the class routine.) But that may just be a local phenominon. {do do de dodo :)}

The changes to the intermediate class were slight, and almost what our teachers were doing anyway.

What other changes were there?

[TheTramp]

And what is a Ceroc Affiliate?
Me!!! :rolleyes:

Trampy

[jivecat]

The 'footwork drill' seems to have been left by the wayside (which is a shame IMHO - I think that it would work well; perhaps a little bit shorter and built up as per the rest of the class routine.)



:yeah: I'd like to see a bit more dance "training" to build up basic skills alongside the movesmovesmoves bit. Though I'm not sure if it would go down well in general considering that quite a few people don't see the point of any further teaching once they have picked up enough moves for social dancing.

[Gadget]

:yeah: I'd like to see a bit more dance "training" to build up basic skills alongside the movesmovesmoves bit. Though I'm not sure if it would go down well in general considering that quite a few people don't see the point of any further teaching once they have picked up enough moves for social dancing.
:what: I really want to distance myself from this statement; let me be absolutley clear what I mean;

- I like the stepping to mark the time of the music
- I like the fact that small and relaxed steps are encouraged
- I like the stepping fore/back because it encourages the men to move
- I like the side stepping because it encourages people to think that they can move to the side and out of the lady's way.
- I like the transition and underlining of leading between doing this on your own and doing it with your partner.
- I would like to see a step/turn 180º in the warm up.
- I would like to have it last for four/eight counts, second bit, join, third bit, join... no more than two or three repetitons on each section.

I DO NOT want to see anything more than this; no stepping on this foot or that; no tripple steps; no lunges; no speil on weight distribution; no hip movement lectures; just the very basics, simply to mark time with the music and get used to moving. Nothing more.

[RobC]

And what is a Ceroc Affiliate?
People (like myself, Adam & Tas, Will & Kate, ......) who teach at Ceroc venues but who are not actually CTA trained. It's common sense prevailed IMHO. Franchisee's get to draw in top talent to teach at their venues, without having to pay Ceroc HQ big bucks to get the teacher 'trainied'.

[Gus]

People (like myself, Adam & Tas, Will & Kate, ......) who teach at Ceroc venues but who are not actually CTA trained. It's common sense prevailed IMHO. Franchisee's get to draw in top talent to teach at their venues, without having to pay Ceroc HQ big bucks to get the teacher 'trainied'. Forgive my ignorance .... just going on what I've been told ... but I thought only CTA qualified teachers could still teach at Ceroc venues. I thought affiliates could only teach 'special' lessons. Maybe an obvious point but if affiliates can teach Ceroc lessons why have a CTA or bother putting dancers through the CTA qualification :confused: :confused:

[TheTramp]

People (like myself, Adam & Tas, Will & Kate, ......) who teach at Ceroc venues but who are not actually CTA trained. It's common sense prevailed IMHO. Franchisee's get to draw in top talent to teach at their venues, without having to pay Ceroc HQ big bucks to get the teacher 'trainied'.
That's sort of it, but not quite Rob.... (at least, as I understand it)

A Ceroc Affiliate teacher is (supposedly) a teacher who has already proved their ability by having a current 'name' as a teacher.

The idea is that affiliate teachers should be able to teach workshops in areas they are skilled in, and can provide areas of expertise that maybe go beyond what current Ceroc teachers in that geographical area can offer.

They aren't supposed to teach classes on a regular basis, or at a standard evening Ceroc class - that's what CTA trained teachers are for (although, some people are admittedly not necessarily sticking completely to that - and in certain circumstances, with some justification).

Trampy

[MartinHarper]

Perhaps the intermediate class should have a "warmup" too?

[RobC]

A Ceroc Affiliate teacher is (supposedly) a teacher who has already proved their ability by having a current 'name' as a teacher.

The idea is that affiliate teachers should be able to teach workshops in areas they are skilled in, and can provide areas of expertise that maybe go beyond what current Ceroc teachers in that geographical area can offer.
:yeah: That's how it was first described to me too. Depending on how you read it, I guess Simon and Adam & Tas might fit into that 'specialist expertise' category, but Dan Slape and myself don't and 10 months on we are all teaching every week in Fleet, and Will & Kate teach every week in Surbiton.......

[Lou]

Perhaps the intermediate class should have a "warmup" too?

It does - it's called "beginners". :nice:

[Jon L]

I think something had to change re: teaching this year. Previously all teachers had to dance the beginners moves word for word out of a manual (I have seen a copy of it). There was literally no variation.

This is good for beginners because they knew that were going to get a standard class at any venue.

For better dancers however it was restrictive during intermediate classes.
Now they are starting to recognise that there are specialist dancers, who can teach different forms of moves in beginners e.g. Taz with Street jive, etc. etc.

So yes there have been changes and probably for the better :yeah:

[TheTramp]

:yeah: That's how it was first described to me too. Depending on how you read it, I guess Simon and Adam & Tas might fit into that 'specialist expertise' category, but Dan Slape and myself don't and 10 months on we are all teaching every week in Fleet, and Will & Kate teach every week in Surbiton.......
Yeah. That's why I put in the last paragraph, which you kinda missed off quoting....

I understand that it's different for the people who were part of the Jive Bug organisation before it split - although, weren't you supposed to be doing the course one day? And I've taught some classes in Scotland at regular nights, but only as cover when the regular CTA teachers have been away, or ill.

Not quite sure how Will & Kate are 'getting away' with Surbiton - great teacher(s) though Kate is ( :devil: ). But then, that's not my worry. Or anyone else's really either :D

Trampy

[TheTramp]

I think something had to change re: teaching this year. Previously all teachers had to dance the beginners moves word for word out of a manual (I have seen a copy of it). There was literally no variation.

This is good for beginners because they knew that were going to get a standard class at any venue.

For better dancers however it was restrictive during intermediate classes.
Now they are starting to recognise that there are specialist dancers, who can teach different forms of moves in beginners e.g. Taz with Street jive, etc. etc.

So yes there have been changes and probably for the better :yeah:
There was never any such restrictive force in place for intermediates Jon. Every Ceroc teacher I've seen has taught intermediates (and even beginners, though, admittedly with less freedom) in their own style, and for intermediates, using moves that they choose. There is the Ceroc manual that is there for ideas, but most of the teachers I've seen refer to it less and less the more experienced they get. It's a very useful tool for beginner teachers though (and also for female teachers, who don't habitually lead the moves, so do need to think about what the lead is doing).

However, I would agree that it can only benefit Ceroc, and more importantly, the people who go to Ceroc classes, to have the additional skills that affiliate teachers can bring, both in MJ, and also in similar forms of dance.

Trampy

[Gus]

The idea is that affiliate teachers should be able to teach workshops in areas they are skilled in, and can provide areas of expertise that maybe go beyond what current Ceroc teachers in that geographical area can offer.Aha ... think I should get in touch with Ceroc HQ then and offer my services :waycool:

[TheTramp]

Aha ... think I should get in touch with Ceroc HQ then and offer my services :waycool:
I think that probably won't be completely necessary!!

Trampy

[Jive Brummie]

Aha ... think I should get in touch with Ceroc HQ then and offer my services :waycool:

You should do. They obviously think highly of you, you're picture is still up on their wall.....and you're in good company. You're right next to the boy Pauly!!! And you're both looking most dapper..... Not sure about the location though....... You're both in the loo :sick:

JB x x

[Gus]

You should do. They obviously think highly of you, you're picture is still up on their wallHave they filled in all the dart holes yet?