Who wins in the end?

[Lory]

Do, people who are unreasonable, who argue illogically or shout the loudest always win the argument? :confused:

The usual format.....
Chat > discussion > debate > argument > heated argument > slanging match > fight > MURDER?........ at what point do YOU give up and walk away? (even if you know your right) And let the person win? :rolleyes:

I've made some amazing observations of people and it seems to me, that all one needs to do, to get ones own way for ever more, is for once or twice be prepared to go the full hog, argue illogically, throw a complete wobbly, earn yourself a reputation and no-one ever wants to bother to argue with one again. :cool:

Comments like, I'm not even going to go there! It's not worth the bother! I can't handle the stroppy mood that will follow for day's if I even broach the subject! I dare not disagree, you never know where the argument will end up! These are all signs that one party has won, even before the start! :angry:

I know friends of mine who have relationships like this, where one of there parties will have sadly 'learnt' not to bother and the other one gets away with merry hell. Their lives are so one sided it's actually frustrating and painful to watch. :tears:

So, do they alway's win?

[CJ]

I've made some amazing observations of people and it seems to me, that all one needs to do, to get ones own way for ever more, is for once or twice be prepared to go the full hog, argue illogically, throw a complete wobbly, earn yourself a reputation and no-one ever wants to bother to argue with one again. :cool:



No, it isn't.

[Lory]

No, it isn't.
:yeah: see what i mean, why bother? :rolleyes:


:hug: :rofl:

[ElaineB]

Do, people who are unreasonable, who argue illogically or shout the loudest always win the argument? :confused:

The usual format.....
Chat > discussion > debate > argument > heated argument > slanging match > fight > MURDER?........ at what point do YOU give up and walk away? (even if you know your right) And let the person win? :rolleyes:

I've made some amazing observations of people and it seems to me, that all one needs to do, to get ones own way for ever more, is for once or twice be prepared to go the full hog, argue illogically, throw a complete wobbly, earn yourself a reputation and no-one ever wants to bother to argue with one again. :cool:

Comments like, I'm not even going to go there! It's not worth the bother! I can't handle the stroppy mood that will follow for day's if I even broach the subject! I dare not disagree, you never know where the argument will end up! These are all signs that one party has won, even before the start! :angry:

I know friends of mine who have relationships like this, where one of there parties will have sadly 'learnt' not to bother and the other one gets away with merry hell. Their lives are so one sided it's actually frustrating and painful to watch. :tears:

So, do they alway's win?

No, both parties lose in the long run, especially if one of them decides to quit the relationship! :tears: If they stay together, it will be an unhealthy relationship with no respect and no discussions.

Elaine

[Gadget]

Do, people who are unreasonable, who argue illogically or shout the loudest always win the argument? :confused:
"Win" an argument? How exactly do you win an argument?

Is the other person turning away considered a victory?

Getting your own way is not IMHO a success if the other person has not come round to your way of thinking - a successfully resolved argument has both sides compromising and coming to an agreement: both sides "win".

In my wife's family, volume tends to increase as arguments get heated, doors get slammed and crockery broken. Screaming matches heard four doors down are not unknown. Personally, I would rather talk out differences and find out what I'm doing wrong {"I'm male" :rolleyes:} - defuse the anger and see where the problem is, then work out how to resolve it... Seemingly I'm very irritating to argue with :D :whistle:

[CJ]

:yeah: see what i mean, why bother? :rolleyes:



Why bother?!?

[Lynn]

Do, people who are unreasonable, who argue illogically or shout the loudest always win the argument? :confused: Win the argument but the other person/s lose respect for them - where's the point in that? I would rather someone didn't necessarily agree with me but respected my point of view, than try to make them agree or back down.

I won't be drawn into an argument with someone who is very illogical or unreasonable. But that doesn't mean they have won!

[CJ]

I won't be drawn into an argument with someone who is very illogical or unreasonable. But that doesn't mean they have won!

Of course it does, who are you kidding?!? Not us...

[MartinHarper]

Their lives are so one sided it's actually frustrating and painful to watch.

Not everyone likes to be dominant all of the time.... and it's not always obvious from watching where the real power lies.
Kinda like dancing. :)

[Lory]

I won't be drawn into an argument with someone who is very illogical or unreasonable. But that doesn't mean they have won!

I take the same stance but what about when you want or need something? What do you do then? :confused:


"Getting your own way is not IMHO a success if the other person has not come round to your way of thinking - a successfully resolved argument has both sides compromising and coming to an agreement: both sides "win".


:yeah: I wholeheartedly agree but then I'm 'reasonable' :innocent:

But take this 'ficticious scenario'.... A husband goes out with his mates 3 evenings a week, plays golf all day Saturday and goes to the pub on Sundays while the dinner's on.....

Wife has been invited to a special birthday celebration of an old school mate, on one of 'his' usual nights outs.

Yes, we ALL know what's right and fair but will she bother to even bring the subject up. Probably NOT! because she has now learnt it's more trouble than it's worth. :sad:

1. She tells 'asks' him a week in advance - but she knows she's going to get a whole week of sulking and in the end he might ring from work and say he's having to work late and he'll end up at the pub with his mates anyway!

2. She leaves it till the last moment..... thinking a quick sharp row might be the best option but this infuriates him even more and he accuses her of being deceitful, questions her how long she's known, why hadn't she mentioned it before? at which point she brings up point 1. He then goes mad at her for accusing him of lying and being deceitful himself! Then then asks her how many other things she's been keeping behind her back? Then irrationally he accuses her of sneaking off to meet her lover, and that he's going to find out who it is and kill him and that he's susspected her best friends husband of fancying her for ages ...............!

By this point the kids are crying and worried, he points at them and bellows 'NOW LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE! :angry:

Excasperated, she gives in! He goes out and all is calm!

The next day he brings her a beautiful big bunch of flowers, some chocolates too. He tells her how much he loves her and makes her laugh, he's really nice to the kids and helps with the dishes, pats her on the bum, winks and tells her how wonderful she is! And that night they have great sex!

[Lynn]

I take the same stance but what about when you want or need something? What do you do then? :confused: It takes a lot to get me annoyed, but if its something that really matters, then I will take a stand (surprises people sometimes!). Letting someone 'get their own way' just because they throw a temper tantrum isn't really doing them any favours and it just makes it even more difficult to reach a reasonable conclusion the next time (or with the next person). But its really difficult with someone who has repeatedly won and have established a pattern of behaviour. That will need time to re-establish ground rules over a series of 'contentious situations'.

[MartinHarper]

3. Hubby arrives home. Wife gone. Note on table says "I'm at a birthday party - take care of the kids. xxx"

[Lory]

In my wife's family, volume tends to increase as arguments get heated, doors get slammed and crockery broken. Screaming matches heard four doors down are not unknown. Personally, I would rather talk out differences and find out what I'm doing wrong {"I'm male" :rolleyes:} - defuse the anger and see where the problem is, then work out how to resolve it... Seemingly I'm very irritating to argue with :D :whistle:
I just want to say to this...... I can have some fantastic arguments/debates with my family, especially my sister and dad, really enjoyable ones! :clap: (my mum rolls her eyes and says, Oh here we go :rolleyes: ) There's a few close friends I can enjoy a good row with too! It's actually a sign that I feel comfortable enough, to let rip! :wink:

We all scream, shout and even swear but its always kept on subject and it never turns personal! :clap: When your 'that' close to someone and you know their love for you runs very deep, a shared difference of an opinion is healthy! We usually end up in hysterical laughter anyway! :rofl: :hug:

[bigdjiver]

A lot of arguments are really about territory, who owns what or whom, and are to resolve who is dominant in a particular area of life, very much a case of "Don't confuse me with the facts." In most animal species domination is resolved by posturing, with combat as a last resort.
Some arguments cannot be resolved by recourse to any facts. Is it reasonable for someone in a relationship with a non-dancer to go out dancing? And if so, how often? Is there any way at all of settling such an issue logically?

[dee]

The next day he brings her a beautiful big bunch of flowers, some chocolates too. He tells her how much he loves her and makes her laugh, he's really nice to the kids and helps with the dishes, pats her on the bum, winks and tells her how wonderful she is! And that night they have great sex!


With my experience of men, if this ever happens to me it usually means he was with someone else. :devil:

[dee]

3. Hubby arrives home. Wife gone. Note on table says "I'm at a birthday party - take care of the kids. xxx"


Brilliant :rofl: :rofl:

[Lory]

Is it reasonable for someone in a relationship with a non-dancer to go out dancing? And if so, how often? Is there any way at all of settling such an issue logically?
Yes, of course it's reasonable, as long as they come to a mutually acceptable compromise. ;)

The same applies if someone wants to go fishing, flower arranging, football or the gym.

Unless one partner has valid and justifiable reason based on facts, for their partner NOT to go! What they would be, I don't know? :confused:

It wouldn't be reasonable, if one person does everything they want to do but refuses to accept the other persons equal right. :angry: