Should we forget ?

[stewart38]

I arrived at Paddington station today as I’ve done for many years and as I did 5yrs ago today (5/10/99) when the Paddington crash happened just outside the station and 31 people died.

There was a minutes silence a year two years etc after the crash but nothing today.

I asked a guard if there was going to be anything and he didn’t seem know what I was talking about

How long should we remember incidents wars etc. I assume 9/11 will be remembered for a long time, some wars are remembered annually.

Poppies seemed to be big in the 70s dwindle in mid 90s now have come back

I guess its a personal thing as well. Some people would visit their parents grave 20 times a year 15 yrs after they have died some never.

The other side is the enormity of the event e.g. 1st and 2nd world war and people’s memory of the events.

Most people today don’t mourn the Battle of Trafalgar and there are very few people alive who can remember let alone took part in the 1st world war.

Is there an answer ?, some one said people showed far too much emotion when Princess Diana died, did they ? :sad:

[Andy McGregor]

Is there an answer ?, some one said people showed far too much emotion when Princess Diana died, did they ? :sad:

IMHO this is right and wrong. I believe that the death of Diana resulted in a public display of emotion that was too much - so yes, I think people showed too much emotion. But I don't think it's possible to feel too much emotion and nobody should tell another person that they're feeling too much emotion.

Speaking personally, I was deeply moved by Diana's death. Late at night on the day Diana died I took the family to Kensington Palace and placed flowers at the gate. With us in the gardens were many people who were privately grieving. They had gone for their own reasons, and were feeling what they felt in a private way. They didn't need to be told that there was an appointed hour or minute for their grief, they just did what felt right for them. And they, mostly, didn't need to go on TV and tell the nation how upset they were.

The other thing about grief is that it's not a competition. You are not competing to show how much more upset you are than other people, nor are you competing to show how unaffected you are.

On the subject of silences, I think that the Remembrance Day silence is the time to remember sad events. And we each remember different things at that time; events that moved us; people we have loved and lost. IMHO, there is no need to have some other silences for specific events. There is the potential that people who were anaffected could be asked to grieve over something they might not have even been aware of - there's enough sadness in the World, without the need to look for more.

Oh, and while I've got your attention. There is a thing that I would like to change about the leaving of flowers. Please take the paper off. When people leave flowers they so often leave the paper on them and you can't see the full beaty of the flowers.

[Lory]

What an interesting post




I guess its a personal thing as well. Some people would visit their parents grave 20 times a year 15 yrs after they have died some never.



I was extremely close to my Nan and I was absolutely devastated when she died. I still miss her and regularly think about her.
I wish she could see my kids and visa versa. What I'd give to sit and listen to her stories once again, the ones that made me laugh so hard, it hurt. To hear her laughter, which was so infectious, she'd see the funny side of even the most dreadful situations.
It was so nice to have someone in the world, who I knew, was on my side, whatever the circumstances, someone who was genuinely interested in me and proud of my achievements. Someone who I could share my most inner feelings with and knew she'd never judge me! :hug:

I'm welling up just writing this :tears: and apologise for having gone off on a tangent but what I was trying to say was, I've never once, wanted to, or felt the need to visit her grave or make a special anniversary 'thing' of her death. I know she'd have thought that was morbid anyway! :o

I understand that some people do feel the need and they have to do what they feel is right.

As for the death of Di, I have to admit I was surprised at my own reaction, I watched the service at home, with the family and we were all very moved but I do remember feeling very sorry for other families who'd lost close ones that week, to them, their loss must have felt just as enormous and why wasn't everyone acknowledging them in the same way?

[Reklaw]

I arrived at Paddington station today as I’ve done for many years and as I did 5yrs ago today (5/10/99) when the Paddington crash happened just outside the station and 31 people died.

There was a minutes silence a year two years etc after the crash but nothing today.

There was a memorial service today (at 08.10), see here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3715006.stm)

[under par]

What an interesting post...snip

It was so nice to have someone in the world, who I knew, was on my side, whatever the circumstances, someone who was genuinely interested in me and proud of my achievements. Someone who I could share my most inner feelings with and knew she'd never judge me! :hug:

I'm welling up just writing this :tears:


Lory your post made me well up and cry because of the gorgeous memories rushing back into my mind of my own nan who died when I was 19.

An extra special person who passed away on 14th February.

For many years I felt it improper to send any Valentines cards due to my personal grieving on that day.

Mrs Par does now get one but for quite some time after we met I refused. She understood as she always does (bless her).

There are not many thoughts that reduce me to tears but the memories of that wonderful woman still do so.

I have never felt the need to visit her grave either because I know she is up there looking down on me and she knows how I feel.

a happy tearful Under Par :hug:

[DianaS]

Watching Diana's funeral was very difficult for me. To see her leave those two sons behind so vunerable.
Diana's death seemed like the crushing of hope for a young woman who had spoken out against abuse, and had tried in her own way to make a difference..
I can't say how people should grieve but I can't think what to say next in any case.
A really touching thread. I'm speachless..
Thanks

[Sheepman]

We seem to have gone off on a tangent here, with people talking about their private grief (no, I'm not complaining!) rather than public rememberance. The thing is, for those families of the people that died and were injured at Paddington it will be a case of going through private grief. No doubt many of them were brought together by the tragedy, if anyone should be detemining if there should be a more public rememberance, then surely it should be them?

But it calls into question when such a tragedy becomes of national or international importance, so that we should be remembering it as a community. Looking at it objectively, it seems that this must largely come down to a matter of numbers, each week more than that number are killed on our roads, with little national concern. Inevitably we give respect to those who have sacrificed their own lives for others, so we will as a society make more effort for those lost in war. Of course this cannot mean that we value one life more than another.

So how private should grief be? Unlike Andy, I certainly didn't see any competitive element in the outpouring of grief over Diana. I was moved by the service too. (Can anyone who saw it not be affected by Elton's reworking of "Candle In The Wind".) I believe it is a lot to do with empathic reaction. Is there anyone who doesn't react to someone in tears by feeling their sorrow and wanting to comfort them? Perhaps when grieving it is rather different, because what comfort is it possible to give someone? At the service after my Dad died, there was no way I could control the tears. (He was a vet, a total softy over people and animals, and the first hymn we sang (or tried to) was the almost childish "All Things Bright and Beautiful, All creatures great and small . . ." But despite my (embarrassed) public display of emotion, I would not have wanted someone comforting me at that time.

Greg

[Gadget]

No, we should never forget.
It depends on your outlook on life and what a memorial/grave/flowers/silence means to you. Personally, to me they are markers and public prompts to the memory. Saying "Look - this represents a tragedy". I don't think we need to force this public prompting onto everyone.

Most people attach something - an action or object - to the death of a loved one; it acts as a trigger for re-walking the memories you shared with them. Using a public ceremony or alter as a forced action/object to these memories is fine for those who wish to take comfort in the fact that they do not grieve alone; but in my opinion it is an unnecessary intrusion.

There was a young lady who was found dead on Sunday onboard her ship (HMS Cornwall); she was a friend of mine and will be sorely missed by everyone who's life she illuminated by passing through it. I will go to her funeral to offer my condolences to her family and take comfort from the number of people's lives she touched. I will attach special significance to an action that will remind me of her - every time I see someone doing that, or I do it myself, it will remind me of her and make me smile.
I don't need to place flowers - abandoned to wilt with the memory. I don't need to visit her grave - to remind me of her spirit. I don't need a minute’s silence - too short a time to reflect on the moments we shared. I carry what I need with me and extend it to those who need to share their grief.

Personally, I have no memories of Diana that I would want to walk again. The atrocities of 9/11 hold nothing more than disbelief and dramatic images. The Iraq war was noise, gunfire and combat reporters. Mudslides, floods, famine, war, death and disease all touch on the lives of millions and eliminate people from existence. Should I grieve for all of them? I can offer sympathy and understanding to those affected; but my grief is not for sale to the highest number of casualties or the nicest person. I will hold my grief for those who walked through my life and left a mark within it.

[Andy McGregor]

So how private should grief be? Unlike Andy, I certainly didn't see any competitive element in the outpouring of grief over Diana.

There was a massive Royals vs Spencer Family battle which I found distasteful in the extreme - this was very clear in the speech made by Diana's brother at the Funeral service.

Like Lory, I was surprised at my own reaction to Diana's death. I was so moved I couldn't even speak when the BBC tried to interview me outside Kensington Palace at 2am. In hindsight, I think I identified with her. She got married the same year as Sue and I, was a similar age and had children just like us - Harry has even played football against the boys at our children's school.

I'm still moved to this day. But would I want to have an annual silence to commemorate Diana's life. No I wouldn't. We keep people alive in our memories and things happen in our daily lives that remind us of lost loved ones. We even find ourselves doing and saying things that our parents and grandparents did and said - and this gives us the feeling that our loved ones live on through us - we don't need to be told to remember them for one minute at 11am on Tuesday 4th October every year.

[Andy McGregor]

In hindsight, I think I identified with her.

.. and I am a Princess* :innocent:


*first in succession to Sparkles as Forum Queen :wink: