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DianaS
22nd-September-2004, 10:34 PM
Okay, someones asked me if I'd like to be their dance partner (I think). He's commented that we dance well together and should do competitions. He seems new on our scene but not new to dance, and has suggested that we'd need to practice together. We have been dancing only a couple of months together, and relatively infrequently as he's not part of my "circle."

I've said its a good idea, 'cas we do dance very well together and I like and miss structured training! (yes I know that sounds wierd, but I do like to work towards perfection). Yes and I know that doesn't mean that we should do competitions but I don't actually think that either of us are any where near that, so there's no fear for me, I'll just go and enjoy it and meet some new people. The journeys important and that's why I compete. I competed in patterns in martial arts, excelled myself and felt really good.

The only thing is that usually when I work quite closely to people I know them fairly well and can totally trust them, in dance I don't, but they move on every 4 minutes so it's not a problem.

So why the long message? I have a strong feeling here that having someone that I work with regularly and train towards a goal with will be really good for me, but I feel hesitant. To get it to work well we'll need to negotiate a really good understanding, I'd feel happier meeting at a venue to train in a public place and not to develop a friendship. I think it sounds strange but for me I feel it should be entirely professional. We arrange to meet, negotiate what we work on, train and go our seperate ways.

But dancing is a pleasure, and to turn it into a training thing may strip away the very essense of it all, so I feel confused by the tension between a feeling that I should keep myself seperate and the expression within dance of letting myself out.

I realise that I've raised some very personal things here, and it may not be at all appropriate, I feel slightly embarrassed as I write this, but your comments as my friends, would be really well received. I'd be pleased to hear your stories, benefit from your advice and make the most of the opportunity, hopefully avoiding some of the more common pitfalls!

We haven't taken it further than an initial conversation, and it might not even be raised again (we meet very infrequently) but I thought raising it here would give me the time to think it through before we decide to go further with the idea or leave it.

Wadda ya think then?
Diana

BTW I feel that I could work well with the guy, I've not put any details about him here as that wouldn't be fair, but I have no issues about him.

Northants Girly
22nd-September-2004, 10:46 PM
Blimey Diana!

Are you absolutely sure that he is not on the forum? If not I'd take this off asap and just PM it to folk on here you know!

Take care, Linda xx

Gojive
22nd-September-2004, 11:14 PM
pm sent Diana :)

DianaS
22nd-September-2004, 11:17 PM
Blimey Diana!

Are you absolutely sure that he is not on the forum? If not I'd take this off asap and just PM it to folk on here you know!

Take care, Linda xx
yes I appreciate your thoughts Linda, but if he was here I'd feel okay about him reading this.
I'm wondering about the training part of things, changing what is primarily a social thing into something more structured and how different people negotiate their way through all this! For me at the moment it's about artistry in movement, and its quite lovely. I've not had a dance partner, I dance with a whole group of people, and I'm unsure about stepping across that line. I think that I'm ready to now and so I'd like to look ahead at the territory rather than go without a map. But there's also competition stuff. The dynamics may be very different to what I'm used to in a dojang, so I would like to hear think about it in an informed way before taking that step.
I'm quite happy to take PM's though!
Diana

ChrisA
22nd-September-2004, 11:25 PM
loadsa stuff snipped

You won't find the answers to all these questions, except by going for it. Rule nothing in, rule nothing out.

I was agonising about all this stuff too, this time last year.

Je ne regrette rien.

Chris

Northants Girly
22nd-September-2004, 11:39 PM
You won't find the answers to all these questions, except by going for it.

Yeah - I've been thinking about this Diana and Chris is right. If you don't give it a whirl you will never find out and you will always wonder "what if . . ."
And, hell, if it dosn't work out, your forum mates will always be here :grin:

MartinHarper
22nd-September-2004, 11:48 PM
I have heard it said that you should never have a significant other as a dance partner, as it can get ugly... so a (near) total stranger sounds ideal from that respect.
I suppose there is always the possibility that it was a throwaway line, and he's now reading this with his head in his hands... "Argh! She thought I meant it! Nooo!" :)

philsmove
23rd-September-2004, 12:10 AM
Hi Diana

Not an easy question

My advice - be totally honest and tell him exactly what you have told us

This needs to be done on neutral ground, but not at a dance or class

Nothing ventured nothing gained :devil:

But if in doubt do nought

TheTramp
23rd-September-2004, 12:27 AM
But if in doubt do nought
Dunno. Why not?

If in doubt. Give it a go. What have you got to lose. You can always stop whenever you want...

Trampy

Gary
23rd-September-2004, 02:41 AM
My dance partner and I get together for a practice session most Tuesdays. It's mostly just us at a chuch hall (recently there's been a bunch of other folks as we're doing a team performance Oct 30). I feel very lucky having found Janet -- we get on great while we're training (similar levels of commitment, we don't stress each other out too much, good sense of humour) but we're both busy and have Significant Others so we don't see each other very much away from the dance floor.

I think you're right to be cautious -- being a dance partner can be a bit intense and has the potential to get confusing, but if it works it's really good.

Good luck!

Robert Winter
23rd-September-2004, 04:59 AM
I think you're right to be cautious -- being a dance partner can be a bit intense and has the potential to get confusing, but if it works it's really good.

Good luck!

:yeah: I think that discussing a framework of acceptability is important. After all there are many different reasons that people come to dancing. Some come just for the dancing. Some come to meet people and some come to find a shag, etc. etc.

When it comes to training regularly it is very important that you both have the same goals in mind. Usually the problem with dance partnerships arise when two people are looking for different things. They may both want to just dance, but if one is really manic and obsessed with being the best while the other wants to get good but is happy just to be taking part this is where tensions can arise and dancing becomes less than fun.

philsmove
23rd-September-2004, 08:16 AM
Dunno. Why not?

If in doubt. Give it a go. What have you got to lose. You can always stop whenever you want...

Trampy
Hmmm as Robert says

:. Some come just for the dancing. Some come to meet people and some come to find a shag, etc. etc..
that said IMHO 99% come just for the dancing

Gadget
23rd-September-2004, 09:25 AM
Go for it. I think a freindship will develop - you need to communicate with each other and respect each other's views; you can't do that without some sort of freindship.
You don't have to share your life story, grumble about the day you've had or what you're nearest and dearest got up to at the weekend: You both are creating a world between you that contains movement and music. This area of both your universes is overlapping and you are playing within it to develop. :waycool:

I wish I could find the time to generate this sort of world with someone. :(

TheTramp
23rd-September-2004, 10:52 AM
Hmmm as Robert says

that said IMHO 99% come just for the dancing
Indeed, what Robert said. However, if Diana finds that this prospective partner isn't doing it for the same reasons as she would (whether he says this at the start or not), then she can just walk away. She's lost nothing - except maybe her time (although, I might advocate being careful at first - meeting in public places etc.).

Given that there appears to be some distance, she wouldn't even have the problem of having to see him whenever she went dancing in the future after that.

I still don't see that she's got much (anything?) to lose, if she wants to give it a go (which I'm reading it that she does). But then, I'm one of those people that would prefer to try things (and maybe find out that I don't like them), rather than spend all that time wondering if maybe I've missed out on something that I would have enjoyed!

Trampy

Trish
23rd-September-2004, 12:43 PM
I agree with what Robert, Gadget and Trampy have said. You should perhaps be a bit careful of this guys motives, but as long as you get a good gut feeling and are careful about where you meet etc until you're sure about him, that should be ok. Other than that it might be great!

When I'd been dancing about a year, I started doing doubles with a couple of people I'd met and the guy suggested we should do the championships (I'd ddanced doubles I think about 3 or 4 times at this point!). I didn't know either of them very well, but got a good feeling about the whole thing. We practiced once a week in a separate hall plus time in the main weeknights. I was lucky as we all seemed to have the same sort of thoughts, ie, we wanted to give it our best shot, but were more bothered about enjoying ourselves whilst improving our dancing than about some perfectionist thing - we certainly knew we were nowhere near as good as some of the other people taking part, but still felt we'd achieved something at the end of it all, even though we got nowhere! As it turned out, we had a great time, all felt like we'd improved and I made two really good friends! (Not to mention losing about half a stone from the extra dancing, which was an added bonus!)

I know the situation is slightly different, as there were three of us, which is perhaps slightly less intimidating/intimate, but as long as you talk to this guy and make sure your goals are similar, you will probably get a lot out of it.

Go for it! (you will let us all know what you decide won't you?!)

Trish

ElaineB
23rd-September-2004, 12:50 PM
Deinitely discuss with him your wishes and if you are arranging to train 'away from the public view' take a friend!

Good luck and have fun!


Elaine

LindaN
23rd-September-2004, 01:10 PM
Dunno. Why not?

If in doubt. Give it a go. What have you got to lose. You can always stop whenever you want...

Trampy
My sentiments exactly, Trampy.

Don't put off today what you can do tomorrow. Because if you like it today you can do it again tomorrow! :nice:

Robert Winter
23rd-September-2004, 01:21 PM
I agree with what Robert, Gadget and Trampy have said. You should perhaps be a bit careful of this guys motives, but as long as you get a good gut feeling and are careful about where you meet etc until you're sure about him, that should be ok.

I was urging caution due to this, but I was also saying that even if he isn't "Johnny Stalker", out to rip the knickers off every girl in site your goals could still be different.

I have often seen two people get together strictly for dancing, but one wants to improve but have a lot of fun while the other is totally manic and reduces their partner to tears every training session (there is nothing worse than seeing a man cry :wink: ). Now I am painting an extreme scenario here, but even if everything is above board there is the issue of do I want to get the silent treatment if I miss one rehearsal followed by a week of "if you don't want to take your dancing seriously..."

filthycute
23rd-September-2004, 01:30 PM
but one wants to improve but have a lot of fun while the other is totally manic and reduces their partner to tears every training session (there is nothing worse than seeing a man cry :wink: ).


Awwww....brings back some lovely memories from me and James' early training days :rofl:

filthycute x x

Robert Winter
23rd-September-2004, 02:18 PM
Awwww....brings back some lovely memories from me and James' early training days :rofl:

filthycute x x
Poor James... *has visions of filthycute with whip standing over James*.

DianaS
23rd-September-2004, 03:10 PM
Serious thoughts and a late night discussion later...

I've found this very helpful, many of the points that have been raised I wouldn't have considered. The idea that he might now be cr!pping himself made me burst into laughter ('cas yes after having said "yes that's a good idea", I've now got the heebie jeebies!)

What I'll agree to after a good dance, I wonder about in the cold light of morning. :whistle:

The insights have been amazing, are women really THAT demanding(?) and I think that talking to him away from the dance scene would be a good first move, so that we get a sense of whether we are looking at developing in the same direction, or if our paths can just cross for a while before they part again.

I really liked Gadgets comment:
'You both are creating a world between you that contains movement and music. This area of both your universes is overlapping and you are playing within it to develop'
that's sort of how it is for me too, and Gadget go and ask someone you've got too much to offer to let a simple thing like lack of time stop you from sharing. Wow if you were in my area you'd be crushed in the stampede, and they don't take no for an answer.

Somthing that I've pondered on today is that, I think that also where I dance we are very social. My group mix and don't have partners, people who dance competitively aren't in my group and I think that part of my reticience may be the thought of moving away from that into something different. and I can't yet see how it can be better.

I see people who dance together and are partners and do competitions and stuff but they always appear quite aloof and seperate. I'd miss being part of the group and I don't think I want to become that kind of dancer, not yet in any case. I go to meet my friends and we all dance toegether. Its recreational, and fun, and sexy, and relaxing. I've never been to a competition and my friends don't compete, so maybe I'll have to think about this being something different as well as my social dancing and limited in time.

And finally, I genuinely don't get a sense that he's trying to pick me up, but I don't generally find it a problem to deal with, so that side of things doesn't worry me.


thank you so much for your help, advice and support
Have a great time at the BFG!
Love Diana

filthycute
23rd-September-2004, 03:57 PM
Poor James... *has visions of filthycute with whip standing over James*.

haha ok new vision.......*James stands over filthycute at Gym (growling for effect) shouting "we don't do smiling at the gym" and "we don't do 'i can't do it' at the gym" *
Now i hurt like hell! still feeling sorry for James??? :rofl: Well they do say revenge is sweet...

filthycute x x

Mary
23rd-September-2004, 08:57 PM
Somthing that I've pondered on today is that, I think that also where I dance we are very social. My group mix and don't have partners, people who dance competitively aren't in my group and I think that part of my reticience may be the thought of moving away from that into something different. and I can't yet see how it can be better.

I see people who dance together and are partners and do competitions and stuff but they always appear quite aloof and seperate. I'd miss being part of the group and I don't think I want to become that kind of dancer, not yet in any case. I go to meet my friends and we all dance toegether. Its recreational, and fun, and sexy, and relaxing. I've never been to a competition and my friends don't compete, so maybe I'll have to think about this being something different as well as my social dancing and limited in time.

Love Diana


This bit is entirely up to you. Practise dancing is separate from the social dancing bit with your mates.

I loved the practise/training bit as it makes me analyse my dancing and, I think, has improved it. And now I am always looking for ways to improve/develop.

You should find that once you start 'work' with your dance partner you will settle into a sort of routine, and you should quite quickly get past the 'how to behave' type of stuff and get down to the nitty gritty of hard practise and you will get used to each others personality and irritating habits!!! :whistle: I think I can safely say that I can turn into a bit of a monster when it comes to practising, as another forumite can testify to I'm sure, but is too polite to say probably. I think I am a lot easier to work with now, as I have also learned how to be more constructive. I am currently practising and competing with my domestic partner - we haven't killed each other yet!!! And, although Sheepy and I don't practise/compete together these days we now have some cracking fun social dances.

Have also done a couple of private practise sessions with Bill for a competion and I think he survived!!

If you don't work well together you can both move on, but hopefully will have gained something in the meantime. Oh, and I've made lots of great friends doing the competition circuit. :flower: Look forward to seeing you out there.

M

MartinHarper
23rd-September-2004, 11:32 PM
I see people who dance together and are partners and do competitions and stuff but they always appear quite aloof and seperate.

Have you considered, rather than going for a partnership, to get a group of four or six of you together? That would make it more of a social thing, but you still get to "train". Just a thought.

under par
23rd-September-2004, 11:58 PM
"I see people who dance together and are partners and do competitions and stuff but they always appear quite aloof and seperate. " quote Dianas.

I understand how that could be percieved but I would have to say "focussed" would be a more apt description.

I have danced at may venues and always but always danced my way round the floor trying to dance with a many people as possible.

I do this at poorly attended venues too, where there are many beginners.

I do so willingly cos I enjoy the social side and helping all to have a good evening.

BUT I have just decided to do a competition with a partner and for last three evenings dancing I have neglected most other ladies except close friends to focus my concentration on my partner and the upcoming(rather too quickly) BRITROC comp.

My immediate impression of others perception of me and my partner practicing is that we are "aloof" ......and my perception is that we are "separated" from the others by our joint enterprise of practice.

Our endeavours are at an early stage but there is a lot to take in and a lot for us to do together to feel that we are not going to make fools of ourself at the competition.

I have never entered a comp with a fixed partner and have only ever done 3 DWAS comps, and never got past round one.

I feel I owe my partner my fullest attention and concentration in the run up and I will not be as social a dancer until after the comp.

But I am still me and feel bad inside about not dancing with all the others.

White Knuckle Ride
24th-September-2004, 01:09 PM
If there's too many thoughts whirling around in your head to make a balanced decision then move it to a subliminal level. What do your instincts tell you? Is there an alarm bell ringing somewhere? Hope you choose the right way to go.

Jive Brummie
24th-September-2004, 01:38 PM
I love competition and am very fortunate in having FC as my partner (on and off the dance floor), so my experiences of competing are all (nearly all!) good. So on first impressions I would say go for it. At the end of the day it's just dancing...don't forget that. If you find you don't like competing then don't worry, just pack it in, the world won't stop moving, life will go on.

I can understand your reservations about dancing with a comparative stranger, but don't we all do that week in, week out? I'm guessing most of us would do it in a lucky dip comp' so why should you feel any different in this situation?

If it's the being alone with the guy thing, then I'd suggest you go to a public gymnasium, with a exercise studio and use that. Melanie (FC) and I are members of Fitness First up here in sunny Dundee and they have the very thing... When it's not being used for classes, there's usually enough time available to have a bit of a practice in there..why not give it a go. If you're both serious about competition, and think this is a good idea, not only would you get to use the facility but you'd have the added bonus of a gym membership to boot.

I know people say the most important thing is to have fun, but from a competitors point of view, the fun bit is sometimes hard to achieve. Practice makes perfect and while striving for perfection you often forget about the people that matter, your friends. Having said that, if they're all good pals, I'm sure they'll be jumping for joy when you step onto the floor at Blackpool or wherever, bust some hot moves and get placed... And lets not forget, you probably won't be practising all year round. Pick a competition, set yourself realistic targets and give it some welly :clap: .

I would say go for it, keep and open mind and don't be afraid to be 'brutally' honest with your partner :wink:

Hope this helps.

James x x

DianaS
25th-September-2004, 05:22 PM
Thanks for all the input I've really had time to think it through and think that I've found a "low risk" start.
Next time we meet I'll suggest that instead of having a recreational dance why don't we take a dance to just work on some bits and pieces.

If we're still talking at the end of the four minutes we can carry on.
If we're still talking at the end of the night suggest that if we want to do some more training we could meet at y venue and spend 15 minutes on stuff during the beginners.

If we're still talking after that do a little more. That way we can reach a level with each other without blowing ourselves out.

I don't feel like embarking on this through a long discussion, people sometimes tell you just what they think you want to hear. But feeling the way along like this for me would work well.

Then go for a long discussion if he brings up competitions or something that needs formal commitment

Cool! :waycool:
Di

Yliander
26th-September-2004, 03:13 AM
I have a strong feeling here that having someone that I work with regularly and train towards a goal with will be really good for me, but I feel hesitant. To get it to work well we'll need to negotiate a really good understanding, this is so very important – and it’s not just about how serious are you going to take the training but where do we want to take our dance – some of the things my dance partner and I discussed was what did we want to develop in our dancing, what style path did we want to travel, did we want to focus on floor work, lifts aerials. I actually asked Dane to do a workshop with me so I could see how we got along dancing/working together for an extended period of time before asking him and then we talked about all of the above and more and 9 months on we often discuss these things again – it keeps us on the same track and if we started to want to achieve very different things then we would go our separate ways :sad:


But dancing is a pleasure, and to turn it into a training thing may strip away the very essense of it all, so I feel confused by the tension between a feeling that I should keep myself seperate and the expression within dance of letting myself out. for me training has increased my pleasure as I have more confidence in my ability and has given me an opportunity to really work on the skills that I was lacking :)


Somthing that I've pondered on today is that, I think that also where I dance we are very social. My group mix and don't have partners, people who dance competitively aren't in my group and I think that part of my reticience may be the thought of moving away from that into something different. and I can't yet see how it can be better.

I see people who dance together and are partners and do competitions and stuff but they always appear quite aloof and seperate. I'd miss being part of the group and I don't think I want to become that kind of dancer, not yet in any case. I go to meet my friends and we all dance toegether. Its recreational, and fun, and sexy, and relaxing. I've never been to a competition and my friends don't compete, so maybe I'll have to think about this being something different as well as my social dancing and limited in time. for me this has not been a problem – as my dance partner has yet to make it to a Ceroc social function (aside from 1 while we were in Sydney for comps) he works on weekend nights – however we do go to class at the same venue and we both have a strong desire to maintain our ability to dance with various partners so we generally dance mostly with others until very late in the evening - as it is always nice to just have a social dance with each other as training can be a bit full on

DianaS
7th-October-2004, 08:27 PM
But I am still me and feel bad inside about not dancing with all the others.
This line really affected me,
Under Par you are a true gentleman. Have some rep
Di

ducasi
28th-March-2005, 08:21 PM
Hi,

Hope this post doesn't go ignored because it's on an old thread.

I'd like to acquire a dance partner, just to help me learn - I'm just a beginner, but I don't currently have someone to practice with outside of the classes.

Can anyone give me any suggestions on how best to do this?

I'm already acquainted with a group of girls at the class I go to who have a similar level of experience as me - maybe a few weeks more. I thought I'd ask them all as a group if any of them would be interested.

Further up this thread someone suggested getting a group together to practice, but I reckon it'll be hard to get two people together regularly, never mind four or more! What do people think?

Also, where do people think would be good "neutral territory"?

I'm not keen on the idea of using a gym, if for no other reason that the membership costs would require a level of commitment to the partnership that I probably wouldn't be ready for, never mind whoever I ask.

Anybody (Glaswegians especially) got any concrete suggestions?

Any other thoughts?

Cheers! :cheers:

Andreas
28th-March-2005, 09:44 PM
I'd like to acquire a dance partner, just to help me learn - I'm just a beginner, but I don't currently have someone to practice with outside of the classes.

Not that I can provide you with suggestions where you can find a dance partner in Glasgow. However, what you can and SHOULD do if you are keen to improve, practice your spins, practice just 'walking' to the music, practice to shorten your steps, practice to move 'lightly', practice to change direction of movement by the time you put your heal down (up down motion).

These are only some basic concepts that improve your dancing vastly and do not require a partner. At the same time with practicing those skills you will make your job of finding a dance partner much easier because you will be very easy to dance with :wink:

bigdjiver
28th-March-2005, 11:15 PM
To develop your own style just hide away from the rest of the world and prior knowledge with a single partner. You probably will not invent levitaion, it is unlikely that you will re-invent the wheel, more likely you will re-invent just dragging something along the ground.

If you start with as many people as possible, you will learn what is common knowledge, and you have the opportunity to pick up the rare gems known only to a few. And knowing what works and what does not, it will then be time to specialise, and seek your own path.

ducasi
29th-March-2005, 12:32 AM
... However, what you can and SHOULD do if you are keen to improve, practice your spins, practice just 'walking' to the music, practice to shorten your steps, practice to move 'lightly', practice to change direction of movement by the time you put your heal down (up down motion). OK, but I really don't know what you're telling me to do.

"practice my spins" - As a guy, I think my spins are good enough for the moment. :nice: OK, they're not perfect, but I've never needed to do one for real yet.

"Walking to the music?" - Not sure what you mean here - you mean being able to move in time with the beat? Not a problem I've ever noticed in myself. I like to think I'm fairly tuned in to music.

"shorten your steps" - Again, not sure what you mean, or how I could practice it. :confused: When I'm dancing, I'm taking small steps - it's difficult to dance any other way.

"move lightly" - I'm fairly light on my feet, I believe. How can I practice this?

"change direction of movement by the time you put your heal down (up down motion)" - Sorry, again you're going to have to explain what you mean here.

Do you mean as I walk to the music, in short steps, moving lightly, as I put my foot down I should change direction on my heel? Left or right or back and forward? Where does the up and down motion come in?

Maybe I could improve my general awareness of my feet, I pretty much let them do their own thing, trusting them to work things out - I've never been told I have a problem. How would I know?


These are only some basic concepts that improve your dancing vastly and do not require a partner. At the same time with practicing those skills you will make your job of finding a dance partner much easier because you will be very easy to dance with I do want to improve my dancing, and where I see the biggest problem at the moment isn't in the technical or stylistic areas, it's putting the damn moves together. I don't think I can practice this on my own!
<hr>
To develop your own style just hide away from the rest of the world and prior knowledge with a single partner. Huh? :confused: I wasn't intending to hide away from the rest of the world.


... If you start with as many people as possible, you will learn what is common knowledge, and you have the opportunity to pick up the rare gems known only to a few. ... OK, so how can I arrange to practice dancing with as many people as possible at my own pace? :confused:

Classes are good, but they're over so quickly. Then during freestyle dancing, except maybe for taxi dancers no-one is interested in helping you practice individual moves, or helping you work out how to put them together. Folks are there to dance - even the other beginners.

My idea is that I go to a class during the week, then maybe over the weekend I get together with my dance buddy who went to the same class, and we go over the moves and routines done that week to make sure we have learnt them.

Where's the harm in that?
<hr> Sorry if this post is a bit negative, but I was hoping for some useful answers to my questions, rather than to be told I'm doing the wrong thing.

Am I really wrong?

From another thread:

I'm still looking for that all-elusive real, local partner to practise with, and improve both mine and her dancing. This is what I'm looking for too. Are we both wrong?

Comments welcome... :nice:

Cheers.

TheTramp
29th-March-2005, 12:37 AM
From another thread:
This is what I'm looking for too. Are we both wrong?

Comments welcome... :nice:

Cheers.
It's possibly just a little different for me :na: .

I don't necessarily see anything wrong with what you'd like to do. However, the inherent danger in practising even almost exclusively with one partner, is that you don't really learn how to lead anyone except her. And she gets so used to your dance style that you end up not even really having to lead her.

So, as long as the idea isn't to get a dance partner for any form of exclusivity, but rather just someone to go over the moves with in the week between the classes, I don't really see anything wrong with that at all.

And I think that the comments from bigdjiver were un-necessarily harsh and un-needed - though I can see what he was trying to warn you against, and agree with him on that (subject to what I said above).

MartinHarper
29th-March-2005, 01:24 AM
I'd like to acquire a dance partner, just to help me learn - I'm just a beginner, but I don't currently have someone to practice with outside of the classes.

Can anyone give me any suggestions on how best to do this?

Just to answer the question at face value:

As a wild generalisation, I don't see many beginners and beginning intermediates interested in acquring a dance partner for practice outside of normal classes and freestyles. I expect your best bet would be someone on a beginner workshop - perhaps ask the women you shared a workshop with recently?

What several beginners do is have a more informal system of partnership, where they make friends with one person at a venue, and spend a large proportion at that venue dancing with their friend. This is useful for people who feel nervous dancing with total strangers, who might otherwise spend a lot of time sitting out watching. One thing to beware of is that beginner women tend to appear to learn quicker than beginner men. While this is largely an illusion, it can cause some frustration and dissent, so take care.

I do know one partnership that started out as a beginner woman and an intermediate guy. I'm told that this was largely due to a scarcity of dancers, so I'm not sure whether this option will be available to you in Glasgow.
The other thing I've seen is intermediate dancers bringing along their life partners to start dancing. I guess you could look around for an intermediate dancer who's single and available, but this seems a somewhat drastic step to be taking... :)

MartinHarper
29th-March-2005, 01:57 AM
Where I see the biggest problem at the moment isn't in the technical or stylistic areas, it's putting the damn moves together. I don't think I can practice this on my own!

When I started, I sometimes practiced putting moves together on my own. I still do, for that matter. The way I did it was to put some music on, and dance with an imaginary partner. That got my brain used to coming up with a steady supply of moves. *shrug* Try it?

(also, my imaginary partner almost never backleads...)

TheTramp
29th-March-2005, 08:43 AM
(also, my imaginary partner almost never backleads...)
Really?

How did you get her to stop doing that. Mine does... :rolleyes:

Clive Long
29th-March-2005, 11:15 AM
Just to answer the question at face value:

As a wild generalisation, I don't see many beginners and beginning intermediates interested in acquring a dance partner for practice outside of normal classes and freestyles. I expect your best bet would be someone on a beginner workshop - perhaps ask the women you shared a workshop with recently?
<< snip >>

I thought (and think) the same.

Probably repeating what Martin has written - those women at the workshop are roughly your standard and also wanting to develop their dancing - so they have your motivation.

I feel my situation is similar to yours Ducasi. I desperately want to master the rudiments of Argentinian Tango - but I'm stuck at "walk" and haven't set aside the time to secure the more interesting (for me and my partner) "figures". I danced with someone at Jango last night who is (in my eyes) an accomplished Tango dancer - and a nice person - but after a few steps I just run out of ideas - and I get the feeling she is thinking "is that it"? So I think I need to establish contact with a number of women dancers - rather than just one partner - who are prepared to give me the time to practice, practice, practice - even though the experience must be so tedious for them.

Clive

David Bailey
29th-March-2005, 11:20 AM
I'd like to acquire a dance partner, just to help me learn - I'm just a beginner, but I don't currently have someone to practice with outside of the classes.
I wouldn't recommend getting a dance partner as a beginner, and definitely not 2 beginners together. As others have said, you'll reinforce each other's mistakes and bad habits, and it'll be much more difficult to get out of those habits as you progress. Dance partners are probably not the best way to learn dancing - they're mainly for things like practising choreographed routines and moves, for competitions etc.
I'd say the best way of learning how to dance correctly is to dance a few dances with lots of different people, rather than lots of dances with one person: if you can lead anyone, you're doing it right.
Failing that, if you didn't like the workshop, maybe you should get private lessons from one of the teachers? Expensive, of course, but usually worth it.

clevedonboy
29th-March-2005, 11:45 AM
I guess I'm an exception to prove the rule - My wife dragged me to Leroc classes. Before we went to one class I'd purchased a DVD and we practiced several moves before even one lesson. Once we began lessons we would practice almost daily for 20 mins or so. We practice less often now (six months on) because we go to more lessons / workshops / dances but when we do we practice for longer.

I know that this led to a few problems with my lead and her follow but we have so much confidence in our ability to get on and dance now that these were quite easy to straighten out to the point where a dancer who is very experienced expressed disbelief that I'd only been dancing since October since my lead was so strong.

To me lack of confidence is still the thing that holds me back. Practice is the thing that gives me confidence to dare. A few weeks ago I couldn't see myself performing dips and seducers. A couple of lessons, a workshop (not exclusively on that topic) and practice, practice, practice & I'm off!

Of course not everybody has a dance partner they live with and a spare room with a suitable floor. If you are lucky enough to get to a situation where you can practice away from lessons then I would recommend you to do so.

Clive Long
29th-March-2005, 12:00 PM
I wouldn't recommend getting a dance partner as a beginner, and definitely not 2 beginners together.
<< snip >>

I sort of agree but a problem is that I feel everyone (unsubstantiated generalisation) who wants to improve their dance needs with someone better than them so 50% of the people are going to be disappointed - unless it is a commercial arrangement where you are paying for the person's time.

It's been written several (many?) times before (link Martin?) that if you have learned a routine or move, practice it with the people you learned the routine with - they will want to practice it too!

The great Andre says, just learn one new move at a time and use it twice in every dance you do with a different partner until you "have" it - then learn another move, then another ....

Clive

Piglet
29th-March-2005, 01:03 PM
except maybe for taxi dancers no-one is interested in helping you practice individual moves, or helping you work out how to put them together.


Hi Ducasi - are you sure about this? Whenever a guy asks me to go over a few moves I'm happy to do that. I'm sure the Glasgow girls would be too.

Not sure if I've said this before, but when I started ceroc I would go to bed (on a high, it must be said) and fall asleep listening to music and putting the class together again in my head so that I was practising the moves in my head. I've also heard that a good way to retain study information is to go over it just before you go to sleep...

You could give this a try, if you're not already doing so - make yourself up a short routine to go over and over as you fall asleep. Hopefully it will help.

On another, similar note... I'm sure I've read research (or heard) that simply watching an exercise video can be as good as doing the class because your brain is connecting the moves it sees to the parts of your body - kind of subliminal muscle learning. Mind you, I could be making all of this up - but it sounds good, huh?

:hug:

ducasi
29th-March-2005, 02:45 PM
I guess I'm an exception to prove the rule - My wife dragged me to Leroc classes. Before we went to one class I'd purchased a DVD and we practiced several moves before even one lesson. Once we began lessons we would practice almost daily for 20 mins or so. We practice less often now (six months on) because we go to more lessons / workshops / dances but when we do we practice for longer.

I know that this led to a few problems with my lead and her follow but we have so much confidence in our ability to get on and dance now that these were quite easy to straighten out to the point where a dancer who is very experienced expressed disbelief that I'd only been dancing since October since my lead was so strong. {snip!} I don't think you are an exception, as you'll notice that the people above who think it's a mistake don't seem to be talking from their own experience, or from anyone else's experience either. :grin:

It's like when you're learning a new language. You go to class and practice with the teacher and other students, and that's all good. But when you're out of the class you don't go and find a native speaker as that'll be a bit intimidating, and you don't want to practice with someone that's way better than you either, as that'll make you feel really crap and get you down.

So you meet up with someone in the same class, and you practice together, and the funny thing is that even if you do it wrong, you normally know you're doing it wrong and then you can go back to the class and with help from the teacher, maybe sort it out.

Meanwhile, just because you've got someone to work with, you can improve tons.

And I don't think dancing is any different.


Of course not everybody has a dance partner they live with and a spare room with a suitable floor. If you are lucky enough to get to a situation where you can practice away from lessons then I would recommend you to do so. I don't have a dance partner living with me, but I have a sort-of suitable floor in my hall. Maybe it'll see some more use in the future. :wink:

Thanks for your advice. :cheers:
<hr>
I expect your best bet would be someone on a beginner workshop - perhaps ask the women you shared a workshop with recently? I would have asked some of the girls at the workshop I was at, the main problem being that they're all 40 miles away and don't go to the same class as me. :sad:
<hr>
are you sure about this? Whenever a guy asks me to go over a few moves I'm happy to do that. I'm sure the Glasgow girls would be too. I'm sure they would too, but as I said in another thread...

... I don't think that class nights (during freestyle) is the best time to help me either. It's not whether there's enough practice time at the classes or not - it's after the class, a few days later that I would want to practice, to see if things are sinking in, and if not, to do something about it. And also to work on putting moves together knowing I have an understanding partner, and no audience. These practice sessions could go on for as much as an hour, maybe more. ... <hr> Lots of people are telling me to work out sequences in my head, and on my own, and I plan to do this tonight. Some moves are going to be damn difficult to practice on your own. Can you imagine a one-man catapult? :what:

I've got a wee scheme in mind using bits of paper marked with hand-holds before and after the move so I can lay them out and see if I can make pretty patterns! :nice:

I still fully intend to pursue finding a dance partner to practice with.

:cheers:

Andreas
29th-March-2005, 03:05 PM
OK, but I really don't know what you're telling me to do.

"practice my spins" - As a guy, I think my spins are good enough for the moment. :nice: OK, they're not perfect, but I've never needed to do one for real yet.

"Walking to the music?" - Not sure what you mean here - you mean being able to move in time with the beat? Not a problem I've ever noticed in myself. I like to think I'm fairly tuned in to music.

"shorten your steps" - Again, not sure what you mean, or how I could practice it. :confused: When I'm dancing, I'm taking small steps - it's difficult to dance any other way.

"move lightly" - I'm fairly light on my feet, I believe. How can I practice this?

"change direction of movement by the time you put your heal down (up down motion)" - Sorry, again you're going to have to explain what you mean here.

Do you mean as I walk to the music, in short steps, moving lightly, as I put my foot down I should change direction on my heel? Left or right or back and forward? Where does the up and down motion come in?

Maybe I could improve my general awareness of my feet, I pretty much let them do their own thing, trusting them to work things out - I've never been told I have a problem. How would I know?

You must be a lot better than me then. Because I practice that stuff all the time. :whistle:


I do want to improve my dancing, and where I see the biggest problem at the moment isn't in the technical or stylistic areas, it's putting the damn moves together. I don't think I can practice this on my own!

Why not, familiarising oneself with the mechanics of moves does not necessarily require a partner. In fact, you want to be able to run through the moves in your mind so you 'understand' them and they become second nature.

Please note, by no means do I say that you don't need a partner to polish your dancing. However, there is sooooo much that one can do without a partner! I always tended to get upset with my former dance partner when she declined to put time in by herself and we essentially 'wasted' valuable time to practice only things that we can't practice alone. but that is just me :D :blush:

MartinHarper
29th-March-2005, 03:17 PM
Some moves are going to be damn difficult to practice on your own. Can you imagine a one-man catapult?

Sure, I've done that before now. Start off my right to my invisible partner's right, then lead her towards me and under my arm, as I step around her (easy, because she's very thin), offer left hand behind my back, then step to the right as I pull her forward and spin her on the spot in front of me. Why would this move be harder than any other?

I also practice with my invisible partner in classes - either on the odd occasions where there are an excess of men, or where I want to get my lead nailed a bit better before subjecting a real woman to it.

That said, it may be that I have an overactive imagination, so perhaps the same trick won't work for everyone. If you do give it a try, let me know how it turns out.

On the other point:

The local JazzJive scene is a little more couple-oriented than the local Ceroc scene. There are quite a few married couples who go to JazzJive and do the majority of their freestyling with each other. My experience of dancing with these women does gel with some of the comments in this thread. I can't speak for the effect on the men, of course. In general, they don't really mind this, because they tend to come to JazzJive with the aim of learning to dance with each other, rather than with random strangers.

It's no big deal, in my experience - it's just that (as clevedonboy says), it can lead to a few problems. Something to be aware of, that's all.

Lory
29th-March-2005, 03:25 PM
(easy, because she's very thin)

Typical :rolleyes:

David Bailey
29th-March-2005, 07:29 PM
Typical :rolleyes:
What I'm sure he meant to say, Lory, was "because she's boringly-stick-insect-like, with no appeal to a real man"
:flower:

ducasi
29th-March-2005, 08:17 PM
You must be a lot better than me then. Because I practice that stuff all the time. :whistle: I've no idea how good you are or how long you've been dancing, but it's a fair bet to say you're going to be leagues better than me.

What I'm saying is that the things you have suggested have so-far not been suggested to me by anyone else - not the teachers, the taxi dancers, other dancers, other posters or on any jive-related web site I've seen.

I'm not saying they are not useful suggestions, just that until they actually mean something to me, standing in my hall trying to "change direction of movement by the time you put your heal down (up down motion)" when I don't know what I'm trying to do, isn't going to help much.


I don't think I can practice this on my own! Why not, familiarising oneself with the mechanics of moves does not necessarily require a partner. In fact, you want to be able to run through the moves in your mind so you 'understand' them and they become second nature. When I'm there on my own, who's going to tell me I'm doing it right or wrong? At least with someone else there there's double the chance (or higher) that one of us will notice a mistake by the other.
<hr>

Some moves are going to be damn difficult to practice on your own. Can you imagine a one-man catapult? Sure, I've done that before now. Start off my right to my invisible partner's right, then lead her towards me and under my arm, as I step around her (easy, because she's very thin), offer left hand behind my back, then step to the right as I pull her forward and spin her on the spot in front of me. Why would this move be harder than any other? Um, because I don't know if I've just clouted her with my arm? Because I've no idea how my spin was? And because I'm meant to lean against her weight and momentum as she's behind me? With no-one there, don't you just fall over? :wink:

A move I'd like to practice at the moment is the half windmill. I've seen it done, but if I were to try it on my own I'd have no idea if I was doing it right. :confused:
<hr> I can't be the only one that thinks it's possible to learn useful things outside of classes, with no-one to watch over me. In fact Ceroc Enterprises Ltd must think it's OK, as they sold me a DVD that aims to teach me beginner's moves in the comfort of my own home.

I can only presume they intend you to have a partner there when they say things like "you're now ready to dance the half windmill through three times!"

ducasi
29th-March-2005, 08:27 PM
OK, I've been suitably warned about the dangers of insular dancing. Something I think I realised anyway...

Now, let's fast-forward to tomorrow night, and let's say I've just found the ideal dance partner, who also understand all the associated dangers, etc...

So, can anyone suggest a good place to practice? Either, if you don't know Glasgow, generally, or, if you do (and the West End in particular) specifically?

Ta!

(Originally I was going to ask only this question, I just thought I'd throw the more general one in, in case anyone had any pointers on how to find a good partner in the first place. Now I wish I'd never asked.)

David Bailey
29th-March-2005, 09:29 PM
I can only presume they intend you to have a partner there when they say things like "you're now ready to dance the half windmill through three times!"
I've gotta say, I'd love to watch someone practice it without a partner :grin:

DavidY
29th-March-2005, 11:27 PM
Why not, familiarising oneself with the mechanics of moves does not necessarily require a partner. In fact, you want to be able to run through the moves in your mind so you 'understand' them and they become second nature.Have to admit I find this really hard and I've never been able to do it when trying to remember a move (despite trying several times over the years). For instance I can never tell which hand my invisible partner has hold of at any one time. I'm clearly not clever enough.. :sad:

MartinHarper
29th-March-2005, 11:58 PM
What I'm sure he meant to say, Lory, was "because she's boringly-stick-insect-like, with no appeal to a real man"
:flower:

I find that most imaginary dance partners are very light. I'm guessing it's something to do with being made of air... :)


Because I don't know if I've just clouted her with my arm? Because I've no idea how my spin was?

Oh, I see.
I agree: you can't practice every aspect of every move on your own. You have to supplement your practice with experience on the dance floor. One of the main benefits at a beginner level was reducing those awkward "blank mind" moments where I forgot which hand the move started with, which way to spin the lady, etc.

*shrug* It helped me. It might help you, it might not. Different folks have different learning styles. Everyone finds their own route.


And because I'm meant to lean against her weight and momentum as she's behind me? With no-one there, don't you just fall over?

Interesting.
I was taught the catapult slightly differently when I started, and the teacher advised us guys to "be like a rock" - IE, capable of taking the woman's weight and momentum if she chooses to use us, but not dependant on it to keep ourselves balanced. It sounds like your teacher has a different approach.


Can anyone suggest a good place to practice?

Someone's home, if you can find somewhere with laminate or wooden flooring. Handy if there's a big mirror handy, like the one on some wardrobe doors. If you can't get laminate flooring, leather soled shoes spin pretty well on carpet.

Nightclubs often have wooden floors and are both empty and cheap if you get there early enough. They also supply music. On the downside, it is in public, which you've said you don't want. Think about it for when you get more confident.

Another option is to arrive at an MJ venue 30-60 mins early. Not ideal for spacing out practice time around the week, but it can still be a very useful refresher of last week's lesson. Kinda public, but only a few people, and they should be sympathetic.

Andreas
30th-March-2005, 12:15 AM
I've no idea how good you are or how long you've been dancing, but it's a fair bet to say you're going to be leagues better than me.

I wasn't gonna start a ****ing contest so please excuse my comment. But fact is that you can NEVER be good enough to stop practicing those things, because they are basics and without good basics you can be 'alright' but never really good. It is a never-ending story of practice, which is what I like about dancing. I am never going to 'master' it, yet I enjoy trying :wink:


What I'm saying is that the things you have suggested have so-far not been suggested to me by anyone else - not the teachers, the taxi dancers, other dancers, other posters or on any jive-related web site I've seen.

This is probably because most people/dancers you meet have done one, maybe two or three different styles, and never learnt under REALLY good teachers. I was lucky enough to learn not only a lot of different styles but also under teachers who valued good basic technique higher than anything else. This does not mean that I can do all these things perfectly well. But it means that I am very aware of where the problems of most dancers lie, including myself.


I'm not saying they are not useful suggestions, just that until they actually mean something to me, standing in my hall trying to "change direction of movement by the time you put your heal down (up down motion)" when I don't know what I'm trying to do, isn't going to help much.

Try it and it might come almost naturally. What I pointed out with that one in particular is one of the greatest weaknesses of Ceroc/MJ: people settle. When you step you have a lateral motion but also always a vertical one. The lateral motion is not so important in this example. What is important is the up and down motion of your centre of gravity. While you take a step your COG will move up in an arch and by the time you have finished that step it will be at its lowest point. So what I was saying is, at the point you finish that step (put your heal down in a back step) your motion has to be directed upwards again. It does not mean that you have to be running, instead you will need constant tension in your legs to be able to do it. This is what makes you fast because your COG is never stationary. It is what makes your movements smooth because no matter if you slow down the motion of your body or speed it up, it will always be 'buffered' in your legs, particularly the lower parts of them. It is also what improves your positioning and 'relative balance'. I say relative because having this tension allows you to correct your position, even if only by a couple of centimetres, quickly and easily.

From the length of that paragraph you should be able to gather the importance of it. Yet, it is mostly overlooked. This does not only apply to Ceroc/MJ, similarly it does to Salsa.

The positice side effect of getting the hang of that is that your steps can't be large, otherwise it'll be impossible to keep the tension and motion going.


When I'm there on my own, who's going to tell me I'm doing it right or wrong? At least with someone else there there's double the chance (or higher) that one of us will notice a mistake by the other.

Don't be fooled. How many people do you know that tell you straight in the face you are doing it wrong? Correct, there are not many around. What you need to develop is a SENSE that tells you 'this feels right' and 'I can move in all directions w/o much effort' and 'whoops caught that girl before she hit the ground because I could adjust my position quickly' ... There is only so much that a teacher can tell you right from wrong. It makes it easier, that is for sure. But it also makes us lazy and we stop 'feeling' the motion because we end up concentrating on external features, which are all the teacher can see. Admittedly a good posture does require a rigorous teacher but learning to move does not, it requires inner drive and perseverance.


Um, because I don't know if I've just clouted her with my arm? Because I've no idea how my spin was? And because I'm meant to lean against her weight and momentum as she's behind me? With no-one there, don't you just fall over? :wink:

Naturally you can't really gauge if you collected your partner with your arm w/o her actually being there but that should not stop you from analysing and practicing the basic elements of a move, like turns. If you do a spin neat and tidy you will know it. Leaning against somebody is more applicable to girls, I couldn't actually name a move at the moment where the guy has to lean against her.


A move I'd like to practice at the moment is the half windmill. I've seen it done, but if I were to try it on my own I'd have no idea if I was doing it right. :confused:

I agree, this is kinda difficult even after doing the move for years. Shouldn't stop you from developping a mental picture of it, though :wink:


I can't be the only one that thinks it's possible to learn useful things outside of classes, with no-one to watch over me. In fact Ceroc Enterprises Ltd must think it's OK, as they sold me a DVD that aims to teach me beginner's moves in the comfort of my own home.

Of course not. Classes are good for providing a basic understanding of a dance and give you some ideas! The majority of all learning is done outside a class environment.


I can only presume they intend you to have a partner there when they say things like "you're now ready to dance the half windmill through three times!"

:rofl: Hopefully not!

I have not given you those pointers to discourage you from finding somebody to dance regularly with! I had the benefit of one myself :whistle: These are things that will help you immensly improving your dancing w/ or w/o a regular partner. Just don't put all your hopes for improving on finding a partner because you'd have to find somebody more advanced than yourself to get any really constructive input in your dancing.

:cheers: :flower:

Yliander
30th-March-2005, 04:11 AM
Hi,

Hope this post doesn't go ignored because it's on an old thread.

I'd like to acquire a dance partner, just to help me learn - I'm just a beginner, but I don't currently have someone to practice with outside of the classes.

Can anyone give me any suggestions on how best to do this?

I'm already acquainted with a group of girls at the class I go to who have a similar level of experience as me - maybe a few weeks more. I thought I'd ask them all as a group if any of them would be interested.

Further up this thread someone suggested getting a group together to practice, but I reckon it'll be hard to get two people together regularly, never mind four or more! What do people think?

Also, where do people think would be good "neutral territory"?

I'm not keen on the idea of using a gym, if for no other reason that the membership costs would require a level of commitment to the partnership that I probably wouldn't be ready for, never mind whoever I ask.

Anybody (Glaswegians especially) got any concrete suggestions?

Any other thoughts?

Cheers! :cheers:ducasi - so far your plan sounds like a solid one to me - as a beginner a group does offer more variety - but can be more diffucult to organise - i don't see any issue with beginners working together outside of classes - but as with all dance partnerships - it is important to make sure that when you are at class you dance with a wide variety of people.

as to a venue to practice - as a beginner - not doing lifts and dips - how big is your lounge room? another option is to see if you can come in early to the venue where your regular class is held. As a third option - if either of you are a member of a church - check out their hall.

Wishing you all the best on this endevour - and remember the 2 most important things are to have fun and communicate with your dance partner

David Bailey
30th-March-2005, 09:22 AM
people settle.
(snip superb centre-of-gravity explanation)

Hell, I wish someone had explained that so well to me 10 years ago... Nice one.

David Franklin
30th-March-2005, 10:26 AM
But fact is that you can NEVER be good enough to stop practicing those things, because they are basics and without good basics you can be 'alright' but never really good. But someone still learning the basic moves is probably going to be thrilled with getting to 'alright'. I think a lot of the accessability of MJ is that as a beginner man, you can "get stuff to work" even if you don't move your feet and can't dance on the beat. Obviously that won't win competitions, and it's not much fun for your partners, but hopefully it's a stepping stone to doing better. If people want to "spend six months practicing on walking with correct posture and cadence before learning any moves", there's always ballroom (and we know how many men stick with that!).


This is probably because most people/dancers you meet have done one, maybe two or three different styles, and never learnt under REALLY good teachers. I was lucky enough to learn not only a lot of different styles but also under teachers who valued good basic technique higher than anything else. This does not mean that I can do all these things perfectly well. But it means that I am very aware of where the problems of most dancers lie, including myself.My impression is that most MJ dancers have problems with keeping on the beat, having any quality of connection (anything between yanking and spaghetti would be good), and managing any level of interpretation at all. You can actually have very poor movement skills and still be an above average MJ dancer. [A big eye opener for me on what the "average" dancer struggles with: watching a musical interpretation class, which had to quickly became a "dance on the beat" class :tears: ].

Now if someone really wants to be good, I'd go along with all you say, but for a beginner struggling to get to grips with the basic moves, I don't think it's necessary. Yes, years from now, they may be thinking "I wish I'd focussed more on doing the basics with good technique", but if that technique is forced on them now, they probably won't be dancing years from now in the first place!

To put this all in context, I spent about my first 6 months only doing the beginner's classes (no freestyle). Because I wasn't confident doing the moves, I didn't get any time doing the moves other than the class, so it took a long time to get anywhere. Practising with someone early on probably wouldn't have taught me how to do the moves right, but it would have speeded up getting to where I could learn how to do the moves right.

Dave

TheTramp
30th-March-2005, 10:44 AM
:yeah:

Well said Dave.

I think that it's important to remember when teaching - especially new people - that MJ is primarily a social activity for the vast majority of people doing it.

Clive Long
30th-March-2005, 10:53 AM
:yeah:

Well said Dave.

I think that it's important to remember when teaching - especially new people - that MJ is primarily a social activity for the vast majority of people doing it.

That makes real sense to me. I think we "exchanged words" a few weeks ago about my bad experiences with Am Dram and Am Opera - whereas you never experienced such unpleasantness - and you took singing and performing to a much higher level than me.

The point is .. thinking back to the unpleasant people I came across - they tended to be obsessed with putting on the show and could not understand that not everyone else could, or wanted to, devote the same level of energy to the show. So too with teaching and learning dancing - most new dancers want to have fun and meet new people rather than be given a whole list of things they are doing wrong.

I want to be in the "fun" camp but I believe I can and should do a lot better (as in most things). :flower:

Clive

TheTramp
30th-March-2005, 11:22 AM
Sure. Everyone wants to be the best they can be, as far as their ability and time and effort that they can put into it allow.

Just that for the majority of people who come to MJ, this means coming to classes once, or maybe twice a week, having a few dances in freestyle, having a chat with some friends, and with no time or energy (or perhaps even desire) to put anything into it more than that.

Which is absolutely fine.

I think that it's important that we don't put these people off by trying to get them to do more than they want. To the point that they go find another hobby, which allows them to put in what they want to put in....

The fact that Ducasi is interested enough to want to find someone with whom he is able to do a bit of practise with outside the class is great, and should be encouraged. I think that it was worth pointing out the slight risk involved - of dancing exclusively with one person to the detriment of being able to dance with others. That's been done. Nuff said. Let's move on....

David Bailey
30th-March-2005, 11:49 AM
Now if someone really wants to be good, I'd go along with all you say, but for a beginner struggling to get to grips with the basic moves, I don't think it's necessary. Yes, years from now, they may be thinking "I wish I'd focussed more on doing the basics with good technique", but if that technique is forced on them now, they probably won't be dancing years from now in the first place!
:yeah: Totally/
Plus, nothing stops them from going back-to-basics if they want to at any point; you can always revisit technique, and an occasional beginner's class is great to remind you of what you should be doing, as opposed to the lazy habits / shortcuts you (me!) may have developed in freestyle.
Plus, they have lots of other options available for learning if they get really interested - e.g. private classes, workshops, wonderful forum advice (:)) etc.

Andreas
30th-March-2005, 12:31 PM
Now if someone really wants to be good, I'd go along with all you say, but for a beginner struggling to get to grips with the basic moves, I don't think it's necessary. Yes, years from now, they may be thinking "I wish I'd focussed more on doing the basics with good technique", but if that technique is forced on them now, they probably won't be dancing years from now in the first place!

You make a good point here, Dave. I did get carried away by the fact that Ducasi showed good interest in improving :blush: Call it lack of sleep :whistle:

ducasi
31st-March-2005, 10:01 PM
What is important is the up and down motion of your centre of gravity. Thanks for the detailed explanation. It's something I will try to keep in mind as I practice. :nice:

I haven't managed to find a practice partner yet, but I'm not going to give up.

Thanks to the guys who gave suggestions for a place to practice. Of course the easiest and best place is in someone's home, but I think it's best to start on "neutral territory" so that we can be comfortable without any misunderstandings.

I'll keep looking for the ideal location too.

Cheers!

bigdjiver
1st-April-2005, 10:43 PM
I learned to "Trad" Jive - dancing to traditional jazz, with my then fiancee, just by watching other jivers. I have thus have two particular "bad" habits embedded into my "muscle" memory, the use of "thumbs", and "bounce". A commited heretic I love to bounce when the music says "bounce", and have no intention of dropping that one.

In do try to "lose" the thumb when dancing with borderline intermediates and above.
However, when I dance with raw beginners I find it an advantage. If I am holding the lady, she does not have to follow the instinct that many beginners have to hold on to the leader, and not having to track my hand gives her one less thing to think about, which, I believe, lessens the burden and the stress on new beginners. This is just one more example where I believe that a "better" standard of dancing might not be better for beginners.

As a parallel to that view, all of the teachers of reading and writing to young children that I know are far more focused on persuading the child to enjoy expressing themselves that on correcting errors such as in spelling, grammar, and orientation of letters.