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Gus
8th-September-2004, 11:03 AM
Just an idea. Sometime ago in the North, John Sweeney used to maintain a fairly comprehensive list of what was going on at MJ clubs. In the south Lynda’s list does the same. We used to have a copy on the front desk so that punters could see what we (and our competitors) were hosting. For various reasons this practice declined then stopped when John stopped doing the monthly list.

We now have UK-JIVE.co.uk doing a sterling job. I was wondering ... would it be too utopian if ALL MJ clubs put a listing of events on their front desk or put a prominent like through to UK-Jive. Could this really open the door of dancers dancing around more, increasing the social aspect and cutting down some of the competitive barriers? Thoughts?

Lou
8th-September-2004, 11:10 AM
I was wondering ... would it be too utopian if ALL MJ clubs put a listing of events on their front desk or put a prominent like through to UK-Jive.
Last night, at Yate, there were flyers out for a number of organisations. For example, there were the dates for all the remaining Kingswood dances (run by a rival Bristol Organisation), details of classes at Riviera LeRoc (wherever they are!), the BritRoc competition and quite a number of Dance Weekenders. There were also a number of Ceroc Australia DVDs for sale. What more would you be asking for, Gus? :D

Andreas
8th-September-2004, 11:23 AM
That is a great idea. I did already struggle finding events :D

Thanks for bringing that up, Gus!

Gordon J Pownall
8th-September-2004, 11:28 AM
Could this really open the door of dancers dancing around more, increasing the social aspect and cutting down some of the competitive barriers? Thoughts?

Know what you mean but it does take two to tango......pardon the pun.

At one venue that is shared by two organisations on different nights of the week, there has been an ongoing (and we're talking at least two years) battle where the (other) independant organisation consistently tears down posters advertising the other organisations event :angry: , despite it being a public building and a public noticeboard and them having equal opportunity to post their own publicity...

The organisation has also replaced / posted over the others posters. Consider the costs of printing then laminating (we're not talking A4 computer print outs either...!!!)

Such acts have been witnessed by many dancers who go to both events and this practice has even been addressed by the Caretaker of the venue but yet it goes on (no further action would be taken because it's good revenue for the venue.....)

Tit for tat recompense could be one approach (but the moral high ground has thankfully been maintained :innocent: and the other organisation is now in decline :clap: ) however in such a close environment with two organisations seeking to attract the same punters, it is difficult to believe that everyone will play within the rules and let the best organisation win :mad: .......judged of course on the merits of which one stays open......possibly..

Lovely thoughts Gus and I'm sure caring and sharing does go on and where it does (and I have seen it in practice) it is a credit to each organisation :hug: :worthy:

....sometimes though it's difficult to wash the nasty taste out of your mouth after making love with all good intention...(that was a terrible synonym by the way - sorry)..... :innocent:

MartinHarper
8th-September-2004, 11:29 AM
uk-jive.co.uk is neat, but in my area not all groups make full use of it (or indeed any use), so it seems a little patchy.
It'd be nice if it was easy to find all the dances and stuff around: tends to be a game in itself at the moment...

Gus
8th-September-2004, 11:33 AM
Last night, at Yate, there were flyers out for a number of organisations. For example, there were the dates for all the remaining Kingswood dances (run by a rival Bristol Organisation), details of classes at Riviera LeRoc (wherever they are!), the BritRoc competition and quite a number of Dance Weekenders. There were also a number of Ceroc Australia DVDs for sale. What more would you be asking for, Gus? :D

And of course you have no problem putting out flyers for Ceroc (Swindon, Cheltenham etc.), SwingJive etc :wink:

Lou
8th-September-2004, 11:51 AM
And of course you have no problem putting out flyers for Ceroc (Swindon, Cheltenham etc.), SwingJive etc :wink:
Actually Ceroc stuff has gone out before. :nice: And GingerJive stuff for Bath & Swindon. And South Wales LeRoc stuff. Honestly. :nice: And I hope we made our Ceroc Metro friends at home at WSM?

Gordon J Pownall
8th-September-2004, 12:04 PM
Actually Ceroc stuff has gone out before. :nice: And GingerJive stuff for Bath & Swindon. And South Wales LeRoc stuff. Honestly. :nice: And I hope we made our Ceroc Metro friends at home at WSM?

You made us feel very welcome and the whole UrbanMetro team had a fantastic day - even if we did only get Finalist medals instead of Winner medals......... :whistle: :devil:

philsmove
8th-September-2004, 12:05 PM
I think all the independents in Bristol are beginning to realise they don’t have “rivals” or “competitors “ just some friends in the same business

They now are taking care not to organise events on the same night (although this does still happen occasionally)

John Gimber who runs the Bristol forum and has his own class advertises all the other classes on his web site

In Bristol there is a class every night of the week and people often choose a certain classes only because they are free on a certain night of the week

Most keen dances will dance 2 or 3 times a week and also swap venues simply to learn new moves and improve style

Please are more likely to give up MJ because of a lack of class not a surplice of them

ElaineB
8th-September-2004, 12:05 PM
Actually Ceroc stuff has gone out before. :nice: And GingerJive stuff for Bath & Swindon. And South Wales LeRoc stuff. Honestly. :nice: And I hope we made our Ceroc Metro friends at home at WSM?

And Mark and Jackie of Cardiff also put out flyers on all the details they are sent - including the Ceroc Championships - in fact they organise a coach trip there every year! :clap:

Riviera Le Roc are in Taunton by the way.

Lou, how are the brussel sprouts going by the way - Christmas is almost here! :rofl:


Elaine

Gordon J Pownall
8th-September-2004, 12:11 PM
And Mark and Jackie of Cardiff also put out flyers on all the details they are sent - including the Ceroc Championships - in fact they organise a coach trip there every year! :clap: Elaine

Whene'er I been down you're way oive 'ad a lurvly toime and ne'er been made to feel more welcome....

It's a shame that such warmness over herein the smoke is spoilt by those who cannot work together in harmony.

Take last Friday night for example,

Not one but THREE dance nights taking place on the same night within about 15-20 miles of each other.

A little more conversation a little less action (to quote the King) could have been beneficial as I heard that numbers were a little down at all of these venues, (this is only rumour, hearsay and gossip and is in no way intended to replace the facts - so no "well we were really busy" comments please - I'm sure you were).......

Gus
8th-September-2004, 12:12 PM
I think all the independents in Bristol are beginning to realise they don’t have “rivals” or “competitors “ just some friends in the same business

Now that is a heartwarming thought. May other follow this lead :grin:

bigdjiver
8th-September-2004, 12:52 PM
I think all the independents in Bristol are beginning to realise they don’t have “rivals” or “competitors “ just some friends in the same business

They now are taking care not to organise events on the same night (although this does still happen occasionally) ... If you are all businessmen, and all work sensibly within the law, you can be competitors, rivals, yet still cooperate when it is to mutual advantage, and even be friends.
Our town centre has more than a dozen nightspots within a small area, but the overall effect is to draw in people from miles about because of the choice offered. There is a nett gain in custom. Antique shops cluster too, for the same reason, and the proprietors often cooperate with each other.
I watch the Tour de France cycle race each year. For me the fascination is watching the mix of competition and cooperation that takes place in many stages. For many breakaway stage winners it is a matter of cooperating for well over 50 Km, until the finish line is in sight.

It saddens me that none of the Ceroc franchises that I have known will promote neighbouring Ceroc franchisees events, though, every once in a while, I have seen a listing of all Ceroc venues put out.

Dance Demon
8th-September-2004, 12:57 PM
We have a table at the front door at Route 66 with various flyers advertising other organisations Events. At any night you can see flyers for Boogienights, Edinburgh Swing Dance Society, DuoJive,Rock til' you drop (Glasgow Jive), Club Radio (Rock n Roll) , Jive Addiction, and there are even Ceroc flyers for the BFG, and we also advertised the Ceroc Scottish comp in August. Most of these organisations also put out our flyers. Only one that doesn't is Ceroc, but they do not advertise anyone elses events, which I believe is Ceroc policy. We have had a few people come along after finding us in the UK jive listings, from as far away as London, Chester, and Leeds. In fact, after introducing the Leeds couple to some other events in Edinburgh, they look like they will be regular visitors, and came up to the recent Boogienights Jive Aces night...... :waycool:
It does work gus,....but only if everyone wants to play the game..... :wink:

Dance Demon
8th-September-2004, 01:06 PM
I

It saddens me that none of the Ceroc franchises that I have known will promote neighbouring Ceroc franchisees events, though, every once in a while, I have seen a listing of all Ceroc venues put out.

Not an uncommon thing for Ceroc franchisees..........Some people wonder why there are not many Edinburgh people at the weekend workshops in Glasgow & Perth or even the BFG. Also, ever wondered why there are not many Edinburgh people on the Forum.......Maybe they don't get to know about it....
:wink:

Gus
8th-September-2004, 01:12 PM
Not an uncommon thing for Ceroc franchisees..........Some people wonder why there are not many Edinburgh people at the weekend workshops in Glasgow & Perth or even the BFG. Also, ever wondered why there are not many Edinburgh people on the Forum.......Maybe they don't get to know about it....
:wink:

Of course one of the best examples of advertising across the piece is this Forum :clap: With the exception of the recent move to requiring Commercial Membership, all manner of events/clubs has been able to promote thmesleves to the wider community.

Lory
8th-September-2004, 01:15 PM
First Pammie had a problem with the Chesham tonight Thread, she kept thinking of the Chicken tonight advert!

"I feel like Chesham Tonight, Like Chesham Tonight!"


Then Emma, with the 'Slotted Spoon' Thread

and now I've got one... I keep thinking of 'Cross Dressing' :blush: :rofl:

baldrick
8th-September-2004, 01:19 PM
I have simmilar misreading problems. Cross advertising :angry:

Bit like BBC Crossing Contients. Keep hearing Cross Incontinents :D :whistle:

Gordon J Pownall
8th-September-2004, 01:58 PM
...and now I've got one... I keep thinking of 'Cross Dressing' :blush: :rofl:

You've been spending too much time with Andy McG :whistle:

Gus
9th-September-2004, 12:06 PM
OK ... I think it been generally agreed that it would be a GOOD THING if more events were made known to more people. So ... the hard part, what we need now if for some organisers to put their actions where their mouth is.
Proposal put the UK-JIVE link prominently on your website and include it in your email sig .. that way more people will find out whats going on.
Challenge ... who is willing to make a commitment to do that?

MartinHarper
9th-September-2004, 01:46 PM
A discreet link to uk-jive would make a lot of sense on the "our freestyles" and/or "our classes" pages that most MJ organiser's sites have. Some of the more technologically challenges franchises might want to create a website and register with uk-jive first... :-) Perhaps this kind of discreet link could be a condition of getting a listing on uk-jive?

Including a link in one's email sig sounds OTT to me.

Lou
9th-September-2004, 01:55 PM
A discreet link to uk-jive would make a lot of sense on the "our freestyles" and/or "our classes" pages that most MJ organiser's sites have. .
I use a live feed from UK-Jive to publish a diary of LeRoc2000's upcoming freestyles on their website. That way I don't need to update the actual site very often. Plus, it comes with a little discreet link to UK-Jive. Dead handy! :grin:

Edited to add that Jon supplies all the scripts, so I don't need to do any excessive coding. And there's a choice of what you can display (for example, I use a list of all forthcoming dates and a separate one for the homepage that shows just the next event).

CJ
9th-September-2004, 01:58 PM
Does cross advertising really work?!?

I mean, "Buy our product or we'll beat the s**t out of you," wouldn't really work for me.

Neither would, "buy from us cos our opposition is crap and it really annoys me."

Still, now I know why I'm not in marketing... :tears:

Minnie M
9th-September-2004, 02:36 PM
I think it is a brilliant idea :cheers: :clap:

UK-JIve's list is superb and I hope it continues and hopefully becomes more comprehensive, and will, if the organisers to issue them with the up-to-date info and amendments

My list (http://www.lyndaslist.com) is created from scratch each month, from emails sent to me plus flyers I have picked up. I have been doing it for over 9 years now and is very time consuming as I colate all the info myself, that is why I only concentrate on the South. I can really understand why John S stopped doing it.

Gus
9th-September-2004, 02:54 PM
Does cross advertising really work?!?
Dunno mate ... depends what your context is. For 'my' punters it means that they can see what else there is to do on nights when we dont run an event or when they are out of the area .. OR, if we fail to meet their expectations and want to go elsewhere.

As a promoter ... there is a small chance that I will pick up trade from other websites (but usualy it is out of townies who are around on business or holls). It should bring us goodwill from the punters as they may realise its an extra benefit we are giving them.

From a strict business perspective, the major benefit would be dancers from my club going to other venues and spreading the word about our events ... if they thought our venues could offer something the others didnt. Its a bit of a circular argument but I tend to beliveve that if you have a good product, then some of your dancers going to other venues can only be in your interest in the long term.

Gadget
9th-September-2004, 03:25 PM
Dunno mate ... depends what your context is.
:rolleyes: "cross" as in "grrrrrr" :mad: - please tell me I'm not the only one that gets CJ's humor :what:

CJ
9th-September-2004, 03:37 PM
:rolleyes: "cross" as in "grrrrrr" :mad: - please tell me I'm not the only one that gets CJ's humor :what:

This AND the Spinal Tap one: you're well screwed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

Lou
9th-September-2004, 04:06 PM
please tell me I'm not the only one that gets CJ's humor :what:
On a plus note - he's funnier than Gordon! :waycool:

Gus
9th-September-2004, 05:11 PM
On a plus note - he's funnier than Gordon! :waycool:

And it would be possible to be less funny how? :whistle:

Note to self ... must remember to not take CJ postings at face value in future :blush:

RobC
9th-September-2004, 05:26 PM
OK ... I think it been generally agreed that it would be a GOOD THING if more events were made known to more people. So ... the hard part, what we need now if for some organisers to put their actions where their mouth is.
Proposal put the UK-JIVE link prominently on your website and include it in your email sig .. that way more people will find out whats going on.
Challenge ... who is willing to make a commitment to do that?

Well, Uk-Jive already has the ability to produce a printer-friendly page (http://www.uk-jive.co.uk/print-dances.asp) of events in the next 4 weeks. How about organisers printing a few sheets off each week ? I'm just about to do some to take to Fleet tonight :waycool:

TheTramp
9th-September-2004, 05:57 PM
On a plus note - he's funnier than Gordon! :waycool:
Isn't everyone??? :na:

Trampy

drathzel
9th-September-2004, 06:08 PM
is that anything to do with cross dressing? haha :sad:

jivecat
9th-September-2004, 08:31 PM
Wes provides a good list for Midlands dancers.

I suppose it's too much to expect, but I would like to see some form of coordination between event providers to avoid the situation I had last weekend, when there were 3 freestyles held within an hour's drive from Leicester, and this weekend, when there are none.

Now can I be a***d to drive to Nantwich on Sat?

Should you ask, yes I do believe the universe is Leicestercentric.

jivecat
9th-September-2004, 08:35 PM
(Just in case) Of COURSE I'm not serious! :wink: ;) :flower: :wink: ;) :flower:

Gojive
9th-September-2004, 08:36 PM
I suppose it's too much to expect, but I would like to see some form of coordination between event providers to avoid the situation I had last weekend, when there were 3 freestyles held within an hour's drive from Leicester, and this weekend, when there are none.

:yeah: I couldn't agree more JC! :) .


Now can I be a***d to drive to Nantwich on Sat?


I do hope so, it would be nice to meet yet another forumite :flower:

Lory
9th-September-2004, 08:39 PM
On a plus note - he's funnier than Gordon! :waycool:
Gordon hun, :o I still laugh at ya jokes! :hug:

Gojive
9th-September-2004, 08:40 PM
(Just in case) Of COURSE I'm not serious!

B*gger! I just posted before I saw that!...... :wink:

So which bit are you not serious about JC?

a) Coordination between orgs :angry:

b) Driving to Nantwich so I can dance with you :flower:

or c) Leicester :rofl:

:wink:

jivecat
9th-September-2004, 10:18 PM
or c) Leicester :rofl:

:wink:

Obviously. If you've ever been there. The nice thing about living in Leicester is being close to the motorway network. It's still an hour and a half+ to Nantwich, though. :tears:

Lou
9th-September-2004, 10:24 PM
Gordon hun, :o I still laugh at ya jokes! :hug:

It's just the Python quotes that let ya down! :na:

Gus
10th-September-2004, 12:32 AM
Well, Uk-Jive already has the ability to produce a printer-friendly page (http://www.uk-jive.co.uk/print-dances.asp) of events in the next 4 weeks. How about organisers printing a few sheets off each week ?
I never ntoiced that till you pointed it out. Will make it a mission to start doing that and see if the punters like it. Before it looks like I'm trying to score cheap shots ... are Ceroc franchisees allowed to do this, i.e. advertise other assocaitions events?

Minnie M
10th-September-2004, 07:32 AM
Well, Uk-Jive already has the ability to produce a printer-friendly page (http://www.uk-jive.co.uk/print-dances.asp) of events in the next 4 weeks. How about organisers printing a few sheets off each week ? I'm just about to do some to take to Fleet tonight :waycool:

:tears: I would have thought MY list would be more useful for the dancers who go to Fleet :tears:

Lou
10th-September-2004, 08:08 AM
:tears: I would have thought MY list would be more useful for the dancers who go to Fleet :tears:
Maybe we should do cross advertising for lists too? I'm serious, as every list has it's own particular strengths.

RobC
10th-September-2004, 09:40 AM
are Ceroc franchisees allowed to do this, i.e. advertise other assocaitions events?
Well (speaking unofficially since I'm not the franchisee) at Ceroc Plus, we are generally happy to put out flyers for anyone who asks, with the possible exception being where their event directly clashes (ie. on the same night) with one of our own (Oh, and strangely we never seem to have any Rebel Roc flyers out either :whistle: )

RobC
10th-September-2004, 09:49 AM
:tears: I would have thought MY list would be more useful for the dancers who go to Fleet :tears:
We have had your list out in the past MinnieM :hug: , we just don't have any current ones at the moment and your web-based list isn't so printer-friendy (just half a month spreads out over 4 pages in my print preview where as the UK-Jive list neatly fits 4 weeks onto 2 pages - 1 double sided if you use work's duplex printer :wink: )

under par
10th-September-2004, 10:57 AM
Gordon hun, :o I still laugh at ya jokes! :hug:

BUT Lori is that out of sympathy or cos you think he's funny? :wink:

Minnie M
10th-September-2004, 10:58 AM
We have had your list out in the past MinnieM :hug: , we just don't have any current ones at the moment and your web-based list isn't so printer-friendy (just half a month spreads out over 4 pages in my print preview where as the UK-Jive list neatly fits 4 weeks onto 2 pages - 1 double sided if you use work's duplex printer :wink: )

hmmm.... little unfair, my list contains all contact dancing (salsa/tango/lindy and Rock 'n' Roll etc) therefore has much more content, however, I regularly email my current list out, my email address is on the web page if you are not on my mailing list, or would like an updated copy - this offer applies to all organisers or dancers ( My List (http://www.lyndaslist.com) )

I have colour coded the style of dance, therefore you can filter out all the non-modern jive events if necessary. (As the list is so large now, I actually have two hard copy versions I carry with me)

CerocPlus always have on display a selection of flyers and I bring my lists when attending dances - if you could let me know when the next Saturday dance is I will print out some more, and will do so for any organiser who requests them

bigdjiver
10th-September-2004, 11:21 AM
... Before it looks like I'm trying to score cheap shots ... are Ceroc franchisees allowed to do this, i.e. advertise other assocaitions events?A Ceroc venue I know allowed a charity dance to advertise. The event was used to launch a rival night, and it was not long before they came around trying to book the same venue. Some people spoil it for all.

Gus
10th-September-2004, 12:04 PM
A Ceroc venue I know allowed a charity dance to advertise. The event was used to launch a rival night, and it was not long before they came around trying to book the same venue. Some people spoil it for all.
Yeah ... funnily enough thats happened to Blitz a few years back. The other trick is for someone to hand out flyers out for a 'private party' ... which then turns out to be promoting a competing night.

Most of the requests for reciprocal advertising have been from small clubs just starting out ... no benefit to me but huge benefit to them .. especially when they dont spend any money on advertising. I've had specific experinecs with advertising two other clubs then finding out my flyers were never out at their venues. :angry:

I think the the best way forward, so we dont have to make decisions on an individual basis, is to have a copy of the UK-Jive and Lynda's list out. Anyone interested can find what they want there ... and to be honest if there is a competing freestyle or club in my region the more informed dancers will know about it already. I've got my Birthday do on the same day as the Big Midlands Ceroc event in Stoke. Most of my mob know about it. Some will go to Stoke for the change, some will stay with what they know.

On a positive note I have ahad a number of dancers come who found out about us for a Ceroc Franchisee ... shows that co-operation can work. :grin:

RobC
10th-September-2004, 03:20 PM
hmmm.... little unfair, my list contains all contact dancing (salsa/tango/lindy and Rock 'n' Roll etc) therefore has much more content,
This is true, and I'm not knocking your list at all - I probably use it online more than I do Uk-Jive - I was mearly commenting that web-formatting is not as easily transferrable to paper. This is why many website give a printer-friendly version of webpages which are specifically formatted to give optimal layout when printed (as UK-Jive has done).


if you could let me know when the next Saturday dance is I will print out some more, and will do so for any organiser who requests them
Unfortunately we don't have anymore saturday nights planned until our Xmas and New Years Eve parties. :tears:

Gordon J Pownall
10th-September-2004, 03:53 PM
On a plus note - he's funnier than Gordon! :waycool:


So, in order of funniness.....

CJ

Gordon

Your signature

You......


:wink: :wink: :wink:

Gordon J Pownall
10th-September-2004, 03:55 PM
Gordon hun, :o I still laugh at ya jokes! :hug:

Love you too...... :flower: :flower: :hug: :flower: :flower:

Gus
10th-September-2004, 03:59 PM
OK ... I think it been generally agreed that it would be a GOOD THING if more events were made known to more people. So ... the hard part, what we need now if for some organisers to put their actions where their mouth is.
Proposal put the UK-JIVE link prominently on your website and include it in your email sig .. that way more people will find out whats going on.
Challenge ... who is willing to make a commitment to do that?
.... And a deafening silence ensued! :sad: Am I just getting too cynical in my dottage or is it a fact that MJ Organisers talk a good game about wanting to develop MJ for the greater good etc etc but as soon as it comes down to promoting another clubc/organisation all that good intent goes to pot and the protective barriers go up?

Gordon J Pownall
10th-September-2004, 04:14 PM
.... And a deafening silence ensued! :sad: Am I just getting too cynical in my dottage or is it a fact that MJ Organisers talk a good game about wanting to develop MJ for the greater good etc etc but as soon as it comes down to promoting another clubc/organisation all that good intent goes to pot and the protective barriers go up?

It's because, deep deep down, the money issue comes up and liek any other person, I want more butts through the door = more income = better lifestyle etc etc.

I think there must be very few franchisees / MJ club owners doing it for Charidy mate..... :confused:

Gus
10th-September-2004, 04:22 PM
I think there must be very few franchisees / MJ club owners doing it for Charidy mate..... :confused:

But its NOT about charity. I work with Blitz because together we can all develop and build the market. If the ceroc clubs in the area and the independants worked together we would ALL share the benefits. It isnt just about nicking dancers from rival clubs ... though my impression is that what the focus of the dance scene in Brighhton and London is all about

RobC
10th-September-2004, 04:26 PM
It's because, deep deep down, the money issue comes up and liek any other person, I want more butts through the door = more income = better lifestyle etc etc.
And that's fair enough, but what I have never managed to grasp, is why there is so little (if any ?) cross-advirtising going on just between different Ceroc franchises. As has been mentioned in another thread, franchises are bought for a postcode area, so one franchise is never going to overlap with another, and is unlikely to have a serious impact even if events do happen to clash on the same night. CerocPlus and Ceroc Surrey do have a good relationship, but other than that I honestly couldn't tell you what other franchises border on 'our teritory' or what events they have on ..... let alone other franchises further afield :confused:

Dance Demon
10th-September-2004, 04:29 PM
.... And a deafening silence ensued! :sad: Am I just getting too cynical in my dottage or is it a fact that MJ Organisers talk a good game about wanting to develop MJ for the greater good etc etc but as soon as it comes down to promoting another clubc/organisation all that good intent goes to pot and the protective barriers go up?

Check out
Here (www.route66jive.com) and you'll find the UK Jive Link permanently displayed on the links page Gus. It's been there since the site was created........I'm sure Lindsay has the same on the Boogienights site....... :D

RobC
10th-September-2004, 04:29 PM
It isnt just about nicking dancers from rival clubs ... though my impression is that what the focus of the dance scene in Brighhton and London is all about
Yes, but when you reach saturation point with too many venues in one area (may be you don't suffer from this as much the further away from London you get ?) the only way to increase the numbers at your venue is to draw them away from someone else's venue. :tears:

Lou
10th-September-2004, 04:30 PM
So, in order of funniness.....

CJ

Gordon

Your signature

You......


:wink: :wink: :wink:

Sorry Gordon! :D I forgot that some of our more Easterly friends might not understand or appreciate the humour in the subtle nuances of my .sig, so I'd be happy to explain it to you. It's a pun on Adamant. Adam Ant! Who originally sang "Stand And Deliver". See it's funny now you know...... :yum: :wink:

Lou
10th-September-2004, 04:32 PM
.... And a deafening silence ensued! :sad:
Except for me, when I said that I already display it on Sherif & Jenni's site! :whistle:

But that's OK! Ignore me. I don't mind. Much. :tears:

Gordon J Pownall
10th-September-2004, 04:32 PM
Sorry Gordon! :D I forgot that some of our more Easterly friends might not understand or appreciate the humour in the subtle nuances of my .sig, so I'd be happy to explain it to you. It's a pun on Adamant. Adam Ant! Who originally sang "Stand And Deliver". See it's funny now you know...... :yum: :wink:

Actually, the funny thing is that you felt the need to explain to me.....

Yeah Adam Ant...I know, I really do.....

Marvellous play on words...... :sick:

Lou
10th-September-2004, 04:33 PM
Marvellous play on words...... :sick:
See! I knew you'd get it in the end! :clap: :rofl:

RobC
10th-September-2004, 04:34 PM
Check out
Here (www.route66jive.com) and you'll find the UK Jive Link permanently displayed on the links page Gus. It's been there since the site was created........I'm sure Lindsay has the same on the Boogienights site....... :D
Yup, as it is on CerocPlus (http://www.cerocplus.co.uk/html/links.html)'s (and previously JiveBug's) website, along with a link to Lyndas List (http://www.lyndaslist.com/), Salsa Jive (http://www.salsajive.co.uk/) & Swing Time (http://www.swingtime.co.uk/). :waycool:

Gus
10th-September-2004, 04:36 PM
Check out
Here (www.route66jive.com) and you'll find the UK Jive Link permanently displayed on the links page Gus. It's been there since the site was created........I'm sure Lindsay has the same on the Boogienights site....... :D

Sorry make, I unconsciously exclude Scotland from any of my rabid rants as I believe that you guys have got it right. I've always admired how the different Scottish MJ organisations seems to work in some semblance of harmony. I wish the rest of the UK would pay heed and follow suit.

Gus
10th-September-2004, 04:37 PM
Except for me, when I said that I already display it on Sherif & Jenni's site! :whistle:

But that's OK! Ignore me. I don't mind. Much. :tears:

OK OK .... I was on about NEW offers to follow the path.
Anyway ... do they have any MJ in yokel country (aka Bristol)?? :whistle: :whistle: :devil:

Of the course the (un)funny thing is that I've been meaning to put a links page onto my website since I managed to break my last web-site ... just never seem to get round to it :blush: :blush:

bigdjiver
11th-September-2004, 12:27 PM
Yes, but when you reach saturation point with too many venues in one area (may be you don't suffer from this as much the further away from London you get ?) the only way to increase the numbers at your venue is to draw them away from someone else's venue. :tears: What is "saturation point"? We have 4 healthy MJ nights happening in Bedford every week, and just had about 350 attend at the Corn Exchange fun night on Friday night as well. I would bet that there are still dancers in Bedford that have never heard of Ceroc or MJ, let alone other prospective customers.

bigdjiver
11th-September-2004, 04:28 PM
Perhaps Ceroc might consider learning from the MJ listings done by independents. I would expect the main Ceroc website to have a daily list of classes and events in a similar format to that that most of the independent listings have. There are a lot of people who have a choice of Ceroc franchises to visit, and do not keep up to date with new venues and changes.

Some of the independents have a better idea of what constitutes an "event". Lynda's list has Mark & Simone, Oz Champions at Hipsters as an event. Neither the Ceroc main website or even the Ceroc Central website mentions that they are teaching at Wellingborough Mon 13th or St Neots on Tues 14th. It is left to John Sweeney to put out the news to a wider audience than Ceroc Central.

Gus
11th-September-2004, 04:38 PM
It is left to John Sweeney to put out the news to a wider audience than Ceroc Central.Very true and many people have a lot to grateful to John for that :flower: However, thats when the (non)reciprocal problem started. Being a bit more aggressive in my formative years (yeah ... its hard to believe I know :wink: ) I really got the hump when I was putting out these listings advertising other clubs while they were advertising in JS's list but banning these lists from being distributed at their clubs.

RobC
13th-September-2004, 01:51 PM
What is "saturation point"? We have 4 healthy MJ nights happening in Bedford every week, and just had about 350 attend at the Corn Exchange fun night on Friday night as well. I would bet that there are still dancers in Bedford that have never heard of Ceroc or MJ, let alone other prospective customers.
How about 4 different venues to choose from on one night within say a 30-45 minute drive ? In an area with several well established venues, there are not going to be any existing dancers in the area to attract in (unless they have just moved into the area), so all you are left with is attracting completely new beginners or poaching customers from other venues.

If someone was that interested, you could probably workout just what constitutes saturation point. Putting aside "special events", such as once a month friday/saturday freestyles, you will probably find that most dancers will only go dancing at most twice a week. Lets say venue A runs on a monday and attracts about 150 dancers. Half of those dancers may also go to venue B on a thursday, added to another 50 dancers who don't go to venue A. Venue C runs on a friday and attracts 2 in 5 of the dancers from venue A and a handful of dancers from venue B. Venue D is thinking of opening - which night of the week would be best and how many of the existing dancers in the area are likely to turn up ?

Come on Andy, lets have one of your famous equations to work this one out :wink:

spindr
19th-September-2004, 03:08 PM
Ok, just hacked up a rough idea for submitting Jive Events at http://www.afterfive.co.uk/JiveEventSubmission.html as part of a general overhaul -- oh, yeah if you like the idea take a copy.

SpinDr.

MartinHarper
23rd-September-2004, 12:16 AM
It saddens me that none of the Ceroc franchises that I have known will promote neighbouring Ceroc franchisees events

For what it's worth, I've seen Ceroc Kidderminster, Ceroc Cheltenham, and Ceroc South Birmingham all cross-promote.
It's also cool that Ceroc Kidderminster promotes a nightclub venue which attracts Cerocers, JazzJivers, and Rock&Rollers. Kudos to the folks involved.

uk-jive
23rd-September-2004, 02:16 PM
My apologies for not contributing to this thread sooner - My workload has been a little hectic of late & I never seem to have much time to read the forum :sad:

This is rather a long post... I'm responding to various points raised, so please bear with me... :whistle:


uk-jive.co.uk is neat, but in my area not all groups make full use of it (or indeed any use), so it seems a little patchy.
It'd be nice if it was easy to find all the dances and stuff around: tends to be a game in itself at the moment...

Hi Martin - Do please let me know which organisations you're referring to. Where I'm aware of an org not listed, I always try to encourage the owner to register.

I guess there'll always be a few orgs who won't list their details. I've tried several times to persuade Hipsters to come on board, but alas, no joy :sad: I know they already enjoy high attendance and perhaps that's why they don't bother, but it is free publicity after all.

There other orgs who've finally come on board... Well done to Lou for getting Sherif's events listed AND for using the FREE event feed service! :clap:


Proposal put the UK-JIVE link prominently on your website and include it in your email sig .. that way more people will find out whats going on.

:D Gus, I love the idea - but being realistic, I don't think many will take up the challenge.

There are still a number of organisations who, although happy to make use of the service, seem unwilling to return the goodwill by supplying a reciprocal link from their web site. I've never wanted to make this a requirment as I feel the most important aim is to deliver a site with quality content. If I started placing those sort of restrictions, or even started charging, there would inevitably be a few orgs who wouldn't bother. Ultimately, this results in poorer quality listings, less visitors and less reason for orgs to buy the advertising space.

OK... This next comment is not a dig at Ceroc - It's just how it is. When UK-Jive first launched, the sign-up rate for non-Ceroc organisations was very good. For the Ceroc franchises however, most of them have only signed-up in the last 18 months. I guess I can understand why this is and I understand why some are unwilling to link back to me, but I do believe that if everyone gave a little it could work to everyone's benefit.

I also believe that reciprocal advertising doesn't, in the long term overly influence the success (or failure) of any particular venue. Your customer's ain't stupid, they'll naturally gravitate to the preferred venue through word of mouth. My feeling is that if a venue is happy to promote a competitors events (providing they don't clash) it shows a great deal of professionalism and assuming it's reciprocal will lead to more punters through both venue's door.

One option I've floated to a few organisers is the provision of a national flyer distribution service. We're now seeing more & more events being organised on a big scale (Ceroc champs, Britroc, Blackpool, Camber, Rebel Yell, GNSH, Jive Addiction, Dance&Sail/Ski/Swim/Bungee Jump etc...) These are all fantastic events which take masses amount of organising, significant financial commitment and rely on lots of bookings.

I would love to see all jive organisations sign-up to a system whereby on agreement that an org would be prepared to accept flyers from other orgs, they in turn could have their flyers distributed nationally. There would have to some sort of postage and handling fees to make it viable but I'm sure it could work to everyone's benefit. I'm still working on the logistics of this and would welcome any feedback :)

I have to say, I'm chuffed to bits at how well UK-Jive seems to be going these days... It does take-up far too much of my time which is why it has to be a little more commercial than other listings - Do please support my advertisers... Go to their web sites, book-up to their events and tell them you came via UK-Jive! :flower:

If you have any suggestions for the site, please let me know... From a visitors point of view, the biggest update being worked on at the moment is online ticket booking for jive events (like ticketmaster).

Jon

uk-jive
23rd-September-2004, 03:49 PM
I use a live feed from UK-Jive to publish a diary of LeRoc2000's upcoming freestyles on their website....

Just to demonstrate how easy it is to use the live feed from UK-Jive, the following box should show the next event being run by Jive Magic.


<SCRIPT language="JavaScript" src="http://www.uk-jive.co.uk/feed-nextevent.asp?OrgID=60"></SCRIPT>













I would have shown the next Ceroc Scotland event, but Franck hasn't added any details recently :what:

HINT, HINT!!