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View Full Version : Ignore list vs Rep comments in User CP



Andy McGregor
19th-August-2004, 03:01 PM
A very clever person worked out how to identify the person who'd given you anonymous rep: you just placed people on your ignore list until the rep comment disappeared from your User CP.

And due to a recent drama the rep comments have been removed from User CP to stop people working out the identity of the anonymous rep giver using the Ignore list.

I find the rep comments useful as feedback; especially the negative comments as I get a clear and honest idea of how some people react to the, often deliberately provocative, posts I place on this forum. And in some cases I've agreed with the negative comment and changed my opinion or stance on a subject.

The removal of rep comments from user CP means that it is very difficult to find the post that received rep and that is the only place where the comment can be seen. And, if we didn't have an Ignore List we wouldn't be able to identify who'd given us our rep.

So, the question is, would we rather have an Ignore List or Rep Comments in User CP?

Sheepman
19th-August-2004, 03:11 PM
I've never really seen the point of the ignore list anyway, surely if you don't like someone's posts you just don't read them (I've done this, not because I had anything against the person, but because I didn't find the posts interesting/entertaining), similarly with pms, just delete them if you don't want to read them.

Greg

Jayne
19th-August-2004, 03:17 PM
So, the question is, would we rather have an Ignore List or Rep Comments in User CP?
Andy: is this the result of discussions with "powers that be" or is this your own idea for resolving the situation?

I think an important question that needs to be addressed is 'what are we trying to achieve with the rep system?'. Is it just for fun or is it to allow people to decide whether what they’re reading is written by a dance expert or not? Do we want to be able to tell people that they’re being too sarcastic in a post? Or do we want something else from the rep system?

I think that it's only once we know what we want that an appropriate system can be devised. However, knowing the forum as I do I doubt that we'll all agree! :flower:

J :nice:

Pammy
19th-August-2004, 03:30 PM
It's not the system that's at fault here, more how people are using it. The system works fine providing we all act like adults and consider others feelings when we use it.

Comments like those Jayne received help nobody; they don't give any constructive criticism at all. That's what needs changing. There will always be flaws with whatever system we use. It's up to us to just be respectful and courteous to each other.

I think someone once got one saying something like "you smell" Again, hardly the mature approach. Come on everyone, lets make this work and play nicely... :clap: :flower:

Andy McGregor
19th-August-2004, 03:46 PM
Andy: is this the result of discussions with "powers that be" or is this your own idea for resolving the situation?


I haven't spoken with anyone and don't even know if it's possible. But my guess is that you can switch on and off any of the functions.

I think the merits and purpose of the rep system were discussed when it started. For me it's a bit of fun first but also a useful way to find out if people like/don't like what I've said - without that person telling eveyone what a fool they think I've been - which is nice.

For me, I would rather not know who'd given me the more 'constructive' feedback. The fact I'd received it and the fact it is 'constructive' is enough. After all, if I knew the name of author of the comment 'You don't have a clue, go back to school'*, what difference would it make? I'd still have received the comment and I'd now have someone I think less of - I'd rather not know who it is - although I would also like to receive a bit more targetted feedback.

To go back to the specific example of the rude feedback Jayne received, I think that the person, if they felt like it, should have been free to feed back to Jayne that they didn't like her post and why the didn't like it - but they should not have been rude :mad:

And where people are rude and threatening there is a very good mechanism already in place.

One final point, which I probably have made before, is that there might be people out there who have so little control that decide to assault others based on a real or imagined insult on the forum. Who'd post a 'constructive' comment if they thought they might receive a punch on the nose. And, before anyone says that all dancers are nice and wouldn't do such a thing, I know of at least one dancer who's assaulted others due to things that have been said that they didn't like :tears:

*not a real example, made up for demonstration purposes.

CJ
19th-August-2004, 03:48 PM
Come on everyone, lets make this work and play nicely... :clap: :flower:

Listen, smelly,

You can't make us and we aren't going to. Unless you take our toys off us :tears:

Oh, and while we're on it: you dress funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pammy
19th-August-2004, 03:50 PM
I know of at least one dancer who's assaulted others due to things that have been said that they didn't like :tears:

Andy, you promised never to mention that again. I've told you already, I was having a bad day and you should never have said my bum looked big in that white dress! :angry: :wink:

Pammy
19th-August-2004, 04:04 PM
Oh, and while we're on it: you dress funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dress what? Is that another white dress remark? :angry: Listen pal, if you don't watch out, you'll end up like McGregor with a red nose. Any more bum jokes and I'll have to ask you to stand "on guard" my friend.... :rofl:

Dreadful Scathe
19th-August-2004, 04:12 PM
Dress what? Is that another white dress remark? :angry: Listen pal, if you don't watch out, you'll end up like McGregor with a red nose. Any more bum jokes and I'll have to ask you to stand "on guard" my friend.... :rofl:
he's always on guard - thats not a canoe in his pocket y'know :)

Pammy
19th-August-2004, 04:26 PM
he's always on guard - thats not a canoe in his pocket y'know :)

Oh, THAT's what I saw you feeling behind the bike sheds! :innocent:

Andy McGregor
19th-August-2004, 05:05 PM
Andy, you promised never to mention that again. I've told you already, I was having a bad day and you should never have said my bum looked big in that white dress! :angry: :wink:

In my defence, I think I was suffering from concussion :tears:

It's all a bit hazy, due to the bang on the head, but didn't you use your martial wiggling to cause me to see stars :whistle:

Pammy
19th-August-2004, 05:14 PM
didn't you use your martial wiggling to cause me to see stars :whistle:

sters maybe and varying parts of them for that matter :whistle: :innocent:

ChrisA
19th-August-2004, 10:02 PM
So, the question is, would we rather have an Ignore List or Rep Comments in User CP?
Typical rigged election.

Why on earth, given the debate that's happened, couldn't you have distinguished between:

- anonymous rep comments and
- attributable rep comments

????

... given that 90% of the debate was about that.

Anyone would think you were on Tony Blair's 'how should we phrase the European Constitution question' referendum committee.

Chris

PS I voted for "ignore list" - since it was the only mechanism, albeit sh1te, for preventing the "hiding behind anonymity" I despise so much.

Andy McGregor
20th-August-2004, 01:32 AM
Typical rigged election.

Why on earth, given the debate that's happened, couldn't you have distinguished between:

- anonymous rep comments and
- attributable rep comments


There is already a poll on anonymity of rep comments. So I put up a poll about a single issue, what's wrong with that? It doesn't address all of the issues, it address one of them. That way it confuses nobody :flower:

Here is the question that I don't think has been aswered.

What will you do differently if you know who gave you the negative rep?

Would you be grateful that someone has taken the time to tell you why you've annoyed them?

p.s. Please note, ChrisA is the only one who's voted for ignore list - a lone voice?

ChrisA
20th-August-2004, 09:14 AM
There is already a poll on anonymity of rep comments. So I put up a poll about a single issue, what's wrong with that? It doesn't address all of the issues, it address one of them. That way it confuses nobody :flower:

Except me, obviously. I don't understand the poll as you've worded it. Why should having an ignore list and having the comments in the CP be mutually exclusive? Except insofar as we used to be able to use the ignore list to identify the reppers.

I don't have anyone on my ignore list, so its features have always been rather irrelevant to me. If the comments weren't anonymous, no cunning mechanism would be required to identify the reppers.



Here is the question that I don't think has been aswered.

What will you do differently if you know who gave you the negative rep?

- I will be able to understand the rep in the context of the repper

- I will be able to apologise if appropriate. Apologising publicly in response to a private comment is not really appropriate, although it might be the only way.

- I may exercise a right of reply.


Would you be grateful that someone has taken the time to tell you why you've annoyed them?

I would always be very glad to get feedback, positive or negative, either in the thread in which I've caused the offence, or in a PM.

But if somebody cannot even be bothered to tell me who they are when giving me feedback then I find it very hard to respect them or the feedback.

In a forum of adults such as this, particularly one where people in general are pretty nice, there should be no need to provide an anonymous feedback mechanism.

And if someone uses anonymity as a way of being damn rude or otherwise unpleasant, presumably in a way they would not have the courage to do face to face, then that is a disgrace. Particularly when they would know that doing it anonymously is likely to cause more distress than not.



p.s. Please note, ChrisA is the only one who's voted for ignore list - a lone voice?
You're obviously confusing me with someone that gives a damn :) :flower:

Anyway, I voted to 'have the ignore list as a mechanism of identifying reppers', not not to have the CP comments. If Franck insists, as is his right, to leave rep comments unattributable, then I'd rather have both. But that would actually be using a loophole to circumvent the way he wants the forum to run, so it's not surprising that the loophole has been closed.

As you've probably realised, I think the whole rep system is pointless, since everyone uses it for different purposes, and to differing amounts. So anyone looking at people's reputation score can have absolutely no idea of what it actually means.

Chris

Andy McGregor
20th-August-2004, 09:52 AM
Except me, obviously. I don't understand the poll as you've worded it. Why should having an ignore list and having the comments in the CP be mutually exclusive? Except insofar as we used to be able to use the ignore list to identify the reppers.

The reason you don't understand this poll is because you think it's about the rights and wrongs of maintaining anonymity for people giving rep comments. It isn't. It's about what it says it's about. The original question assumes that there is a desire by Franck to continue to hide the identity of people giving rep. The poll is asking people what they think of an alternative method of keeping that anonymity.

To answer the poll when you don't agree with the original premise is difficult. And to discuss the pros and cons of anonymity here is to take this tread off-topic. There is a perfectly good thread which is right on the money for that particular topic - it's here. (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3351&highlight=rep)

MartinHarper
20th-August-2004, 10:18 AM
I may exercise a right of reply

The "right of reply" applies to stuff published by the mass media. It doesn't apply to things said privately to you. Also, as far as I'm aware, the UK doesn't have a right of reply law. For some background, see the 1974 Council of Europe Resolution (http://cm.coe.int/ta/res/1974/74x26.htm).

ChrisA
20th-August-2004, 10:39 AM
The poll is asking people what they think of an alternative method of keeping that anonymity.

Ah. Ok, that's a fair question. You're saying, AIUI, given the fact that the forum software isn't flexible enough to make the comments properly anonymous, would we rather lose the ignore list completely (which would stop us identifying the repper) or lose the CP comments (which has the same effect).

I guess I was being a bit slow on the uptake. Sorry. :blush:

In which case I'd like to switch my vote !! :tears:



There is a perfectly good thread which is right on the money for that particular topic
Yeah, and I've totally changed my view on that. I hadn't thought through the implications of anonymous nastiness at that time, despite Mikey's explanation when he started the thread, and for which, if he's listening at all, I apologise to him.

I wish I could switch my vote on that one, too :tears:

Chris

Gordon J Pownall
20th-August-2004, 10:45 AM
Please bring back rep comments in User CP - I'm getttin well narked hunting down all my posts trying to find who said what about whatever.....

I am getting dismayed and excited all in one second.....

Great - positive rep from someone..... :clap:

Bugger - gotta find the post and see what (if anything was said)... :angry:


AAAAAAGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH - please can we have rep comments back and we all promise to play nice....... :cheers: :hug: :kiss:

Andy McGregor
20th-August-2004, 10:49 AM
I guess I was being a bit slow on the uptake. Sorry. :blush:


Don't worry, we all do it, when we've got something on our mind we often see everything from the perspective of the issue that's uppermost :flower:

(what a shame we can't put cigarette smoke in dance halls on our ignore list :devil: - now I've done it too :wink: )


In which case I'd like to switch my vote !! :tears:



I wish I could switch my vote on that one, too :tears:


ChrisA - a floating voter: whatever next?

RobC
20th-August-2004, 12:53 PM
Please bring back rep comments in User CP - I'm getttin well narked hunting down all my posts trying to find who said what about whatever.....

I am getting dismayed and excited all in one second.....

Great - positive rep from someone..... :clap:

Bugger - gotta find the post and see what (if anything was said)... :angry:


AAAAAAGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH - please can we have rep comments back and we all promise to play nice....... :cheers: :hug: :kiss:
Now it's my turn to be slow on the uptake..... How do you tell you've been given rep when the comments (and your current rep points) are no longer appearing in the UserCP ? Unless your rep score changes such that you get / lose a green pip (50 point increments if I remember correctly) then surely there's currently no way of knowing someone has given you rep ?

Your confused :confused:
RobC

Lynn
20th-August-2004, 12:57 PM
Now it's my turn to be slow on the uptake..... How do you tell you've been given rep when the comments (and your current rep points) are no longer appearing in the UserCP ? Unless your rep score changes such that you get / lose a green pip (50 point increments if I remember correctly) then surely there's currently no way of knowing someone has given you rep ?

Your confused :confused:
RobC See other thread on Rep comments - you can click on scales in one of your own posts and it gives your rep total. If you have received rep for that post then you see the comments as well. If you notice your rep total is up or down then you know you have got positive or negative rep (unless you got some that cancelled each other out!) but you have to search back through all your posts and click on scales in each one to try to find for which post you got rep.

Hope that helps.

Sheepman
20th-August-2004, 05:53 PM
Please bring back rep comments in User CP - I'm getttin well narked hunting down all my posts trying to find who said what about whatever.....

I am getting dismayed and excited all in one second.....

Great - positive rep from someone..... :clap:

Bugger - gotta find the post and see what (if anything was said)... :angry:


AAAAAAGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH - please can we have rep comments back and we all promise to play nice....... :cheers: :hug: :kiss: :yeah:
I've wasted an hour trying to find why anyone liked what I said recently, all to no avail. I think I might prefer no rep system to one where you just get it, but have no idea why.

Do any statisticians out there have the time to work out if there was a higher prevalence of
:yeah:
posts before rep became available? I know I tend to give rep, rather than bore the punters with just a :yeah:
Oh dear, that's three :yeah: in one post! :wink:

Greg

Sparkles
20th-August-2004, 06:07 PM
So do you mean that we're all starting to agree on something...
That we should have the reps but not the anonymity????
:eek:
Can someone help me up, please, I think I just fell over with the shock! :flower:

Andy McGregor
20th-August-2004, 06:45 PM
So do you mean that we're all starting to agree on something...
That we should have the reps but not the anonymity????
:eek:
Can someone help me up, please, I think I just fell over with the shock! :flower:

I think what the response to this poll is telling us that a significant majority of responders would prefer to see their rep comments in User CP rather than have the facility to Ignore other Forumites.

I think that the difference is already statistically significant. But I think it would be nice to get a few more people to respond as it's more inclusive.

The poll on anonymity is far less conclusive. A few more people would prefer to see who'd given them rep but the difference isn't anything like as significant as we have on this thread.

Sheepman
25th-August-2004, 02:00 PM
After giving rep to someone who only has a few posts to their credit, I've just thought of another reason why you would miss possible rep comments in the current system.

If you are given rep (negative or positive), by forumites whose current status means their rep doesn't affect your points total, then you are even less likely to be aware that you got anything, so less likely to go and find those comments.

Greg

Franck
31st-August-2004, 11:37 AM
Having read all the posts on the subject and looked at all the options, I have decided to restore the reputation viewing facility.
For the time being, your User Control Panel will only show the most recent 2 comments, and the comments will not be anonymous. As everyone becomes aware of the lack of anonymity, I will increase the number of visible comments in the User CP.
I had to remove anonymity altogether as there was no way to bypass Diana's trick, so there was no point in pretending comments were anonymous.
Having said that, the facility to have the name of the person who left reputation next to the comment will only be available to Premium Silver members. Anyone who hasn't upgraded will have to look for individual posts and work it out for themselves :nice:

I hope the system satisfies most of you, and now you can have your cake (ignore list) and eat it (reputation comments) :D

ChrisA
31st-August-2004, 12:26 PM
and the comments will not be anonymous.

Hurrah !!

Good on you Franck, thanks :cheers:

Chris

Gadget
31st-August-2004, 12:35 PM
:yeah: Hazah.

I had to remove anonymity altogether as there was no way to bypass Diana's trick, so there was no point in pretending comments were anonymous.
Wouldn't Andy's suggestion of removing the "ignore" list work? Just curious - I like them as they are now (although I would prefer to see more than just two... patience...)

Franck
31st-August-2004, 12:46 PM
Wouldn't Andy's suggestion of removing the "ignore" list work? Just curious - I like them as they are now (although I would prefer to see more than just two... patience...)Nope, it wouldn't because there is no (easy) way to disable the ignore facility. Sorry... :nice:

I have also increased the maximum number of reps you can give in any one day, so if you want to seem more comments in your user cp, start dishing out the good / bad rep... :D
Currently, you can give rep no more than 12 times a day, and you have to hit another 6 different people before you can give rep to the same person again...
Those numbers will change, from time to time, so don't rely on them...

drathzel
31st-August-2004, 02:04 PM
Thank you franck!! :kiss:

by the way... how do you see your previous rep? ie not just the last two? :confused:

RobC
31st-August-2004, 02:11 PM
Having read all the posts on the subject and looked at all the options, I have decided to restore the reputation viewing facility.
For the time being, your User Control Panel will only show the most recent 2 comments, and the comments will not be anonymous. As everyone becomes aware of the lack of anonymity, I will increase the number of visible comments in the User CP.
:clap: Woohoo :clap: Thanks Franck.

BTW, have you been fiddling with the rep scores again ? Your score seems to be going through the roof again.... ;) That said, I think David Chu (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/member.php?userid=579) must be the most popular person on the forum at present. Only 2 posts (both just a couple of days ago) and he already has a rep of over 100 points :rolleyes:

RobC
31st-August-2004, 02:13 PM
by the way... how do you see your previous rep? ie not just the last two? :confused:
You have to go and find them. Click on your name, and select "Find more posts by ....". Then go to each post in turn and click on the little scales/cabage thingy. Any rep you have received for that post will be shown.

Franck
31st-August-2004, 02:14 PM
Thank you franck!! :kiss:

by the way... how do you see your previous rep? ie not just the last two? :confused:No worries... At the moment, you can only see the last 2 reps, and as I explained earlier, in the next few weeks, I'll increase that number.

As it turns out however, as a new member, you only have 2 reputation comments anyway so far :wink:

See you tonight at JJ, and please introduce yourself when you ask me for a dance!

Franck
31st-August-2004, 02:16 PM
BTW, have you been fiddling with the rep scores again ? Your score seems to be going through the roof again.... ;) I might have! :D
I keep myself at the top of the Reputation tree, as a shining beacon for everyone to aspire to :wink:

drathzel
31st-August-2004, 02:21 PM
thats cool franck!! I thought that anyway.... I will introduce myself tonight!! But i will use my real name which is....dum did da dum.....Danielle

Sheepman
31st-August-2004, 02:58 PM
Hurrah !!

Good on you Franck, thanks :cheers:
:yeah:

Lory
31st-August-2004, 03:24 PM
I keep myself at the top of the Reputation tree, as a shining beacon for everyone to aspire to :wink:
And we do! :worthy: :worthy: :worthy:

Gordon J Pownall
31st-August-2004, 03:36 PM
Having read all the posts on the subject and looked at all the options, I have decided to restore the reputation viewing facility.

I hope the system satisfies most of you, and now you can have your cake (ignore list) and eat it (reputation comments) :D

:worthy: :worthy: :worthy: :yeah: :worthy: :worthy: :worthy:

Stuart M
31st-August-2004, 03:39 PM
I might have! :D
I keep myself at the top of the Reputation tree, as a shining beacon for everyone to aspire to :wink:
Yeah, but the worrying thing is, I hover my cursor over your green bits and it says, 'Franck is a splendid one to behold'

:eek: :rofl:

Franck
31st-August-2004, 03:51 PM
Yeah, but the worrying thing is, I hover my cursor over your green bits and it says, 'Franck is a splendid one to behold'and your point? :whistle: :wink:

Lory
31st-August-2004, 03:58 PM
Yeah, but the worrying thing is, I hover my cursor over your green bits and it says, 'Franck is a splendid one to behold'

:eek: :rofl:
You just leave our Franck's green bits alone! :angry: :wink: your just jealous cos you haven't got a splendid one of your own to behold! :whistle: :D :rofl:

Gordon J Pownall
31st-August-2004, 03:59 PM
Yeah, but the worrying thing is, I hover my cursor over your green bits and it says, 'Franck is a splendid one to behold'

:eek: :rofl:

.....and this is worrying because...???? :confused:

How can the absolute and total truth be contentious or worrying...???

Franck is a god amongst men and dancers and as such is truly splendid to behold....


Any chance of working the green things for me Franck...????? :whistle: :wink: :wink: :worthy:

Lou
31st-August-2004, 07:41 PM
Yeah, but the worrying thing is, I hover my cursor over your green bits and it says, 'Franck is a splendid one to behold'

:eek: :rofl:
Yeah, and when I hover over Sheepie's it says "Sheepman has a spectacular aura about"

about what, exactly? !! :sick: :what:

Emma
31st-August-2004, 10:16 PM
You just leave our Franck's green bits alone! :angry: :wink: your just jealous cos you haven't got a splendid one of your own to behold! :whistle: :D :rofl:I've seem Stuart in *those* trousers...and trust me, he has! :cool: *g,d&r*

CJ
1st-September-2004, 02:51 AM
Yeah, but the worrying thing is, I hover my cursor over your green bits and it says, 'Franck is a splendid one to behold'

:eek: :rofl:

Toaster Boy,

You gotta remember this is his rep and NOT real life!!

I think it loosely translates as:

"He's put on the beef recently and is too big to be held."

Never forget: what he lacks in height, he makes up for in girth!! :wink:

Was bizarre, I held my icon over your green bits and it said:

"Has a penchant for dodgy facial hair/bad T-shirt combos" so maybe it is true after all...

:whistle:

under par
1st-September-2004, 03:28 AM
You just leave our Franck's green bits alone! :angry: :wink: your just jealous cos you haven't got a splendid one of your own to behold! :whistle: :D :rofl:

Who hasn't!! :mad:

baldrick
1st-September-2004, 09:23 AM
What green bits? Where? I hate not having the same toys as everyone else. How'd you do that? :confused:

drathzel
1st-September-2004, 01:31 PM
What green bits? Where? I hate not having the same toys as everyone else. How'd you do that? :confused:


Calm down its fine!!! You'll get your green bits soon!! :D

baldrick
1st-September-2004, 01:40 PM
Calm down its fine!!! You'll get your green bits soon!! :D

Nope doesn't matter where I hover nothing happens :mad:, well apart from that one unfortunate incedent but no one would mention that would they.
:blush:

Gordon J Pownall
1st-September-2004, 01:41 PM
What green bits? Where? I hate not having the same toys as everyone else. How'd you do that? :confused:


Yeah - you'll be famous soon enough...!!! :sick:

drathzel
1st-September-2004, 01:44 PM
Nope doesn't matter where I hover nothing happens :mad:, well apart from that one unfortunate incedent but no one would mention that would they.
:blush:


...laughs in an evil way..." I might!" :devil:

Sparkles
1st-September-2004, 04:21 PM
Thank you, Franck :hug: , it's so nice to see the rep comments back again (and I'm relieved that I can now give rep to people I think deserve it after just 6 others rather than 15!). I'm also pleased that they're no-longer anonymous, as it means I know who to thank (or ignore :wink: ) – after all if you’re going to say something it seems only right that you should stick by it (even if someone has given me rep for the thought of me covered in chocolate :eek: :wink: - they may regret that sometime soon!).
Hugs all round! :hug: :hug:
S. x