View Full Version : A willingness to learn....
Gus
8th-August-2004, 10:21 PM
This sounds like the voice of experience: how far did you get Gus? :devil:
Without trying to veer off thread .. its comes back to a point that Gordy (sort of) made some while back ... the majority of people doing MJ aren't there to learn how to be dancres .. they are they to learn to dance ... subtle but important distinction ... net result is that they are happy with a certain level of competence, then dont tend to progress much further. To some, the concept of subtle lead and follow, compression etc is a step too far and they are either incapable of taking it in or not too bothered. I've had experience (like many of my peers) of getting the class to dance a few routines just using fingertips ..... then as soon as freestyle starts all that goes right out of the window and the power struggle continues. :sad:
Emma
8th-August-2004, 10:55 PM
To some, the concept of subtle lead and follow, compression etc is a step too far and they are either incapable of taking it in or not too bothered. I've had experience (like many of my peers) of getting the class to dance a few routines just using fingertips ..... then as soon as freestyle starts all that goes right out of the window and the power struggle continues. :sad:Sorry Gus, but whilst I agree that there are many people who are at MJ classes mainly to have a good time and dance, I find this comment extremely patronising. As an educator of some experience (though not in dance) I am disturbed by the attitude that students are either 'incapable' or 'not bothered'. The very high majority of people I see around me learning to dance are extremely bothered about whether they are doing it right or not, and I'm afraid that if they are judged 'incapable' by their teacher then they are hardly likely to learn :angry:
Learning any new concept takes time and though within any group there is always likely to be a small proportion who pick it up very easily, this is more due to their natural aptitude than good teaching. Good teaching lies in constantly reinventing methods of approaching concepts and in consolidation of concepts. One cannot expect to introduce something new and for it to be instantly assimilated into ingrained practice.
Sorry mate, I cannot of course judge your teaching as I have only seen you teach once, but I felt I really *had* to pick up that comment...:hug:
Anyway...where was my coat....
Gus
9th-August-2004, 12:13 AM
The very high majority of people I see around me learning to dance are extremely bothered about whether they are doing it right or not, and I'm afraid that if they are judged 'incapable' by their teacher then they are hardly likely to learn :angry:
Emma, feedback taken. I didn’t mean the comment to sound patronising .. I was saying it as a summation of my experiences and observations. I've been in workshops with the likes of Amir, Viktor and N&N (some of the best instructors there are IMHO), seen the instructors explain the concepts in a variety of ways ... AND STILL the women come out complaining about the fact that the guys aint doing it right. Thats the symptoms ... my assessment was it that they simply either couldn’t do it or didn’t want to change their ways .... if you can think of another reason, great ... but it is frustrating.
Its not a patronising thing to say there are limitations to what one can learn. I simply cannot get lindy style footwork or anything that requires tap like ability ... just not within my capabilities ... so it would seem likely that their are dancers who are "challenged" by lead and follow or picking up the dance rhythm ... fair comment?
Tiggerbabe
9th-August-2004, 12:17 AM
Spot the CTA graduate :devil: :devil:
and what's wrong with that? :confused:
Andy McGregor
9th-August-2004, 12:56 AM
or didn’t want to change their ways ....
I think it's most often not wanting to change. I'm not certain but I think the majority of people who do MJ reach a point where they're satisfied with their level and don't feel the need to progress. They might even feel insulted if you suggest they've got more to learn. These people are the lucky ones :clap: They don't feel the need to travel further and further to learn more and more: they go to their local class, go to the odd dance, are happy with what they do and that's it.
Who are we to say they're wrong?
TheTramp
9th-August-2004, 01:07 AM
Who are we to say they're wrong?
I certainly wouldn't. If that's what they enjoy, then what's the problem. Not everyone who runs down the gym wants to compete at the Olympics. Not everyone who does a martial art wants to be a black belt. Not everyone who learns to play a musical instrument wants to be in a band or on Top of the Pops. For a lot of people, I'd say that it's mostly a social activity. A night out dancing, a couple of drinks, see your friends, have fun.
Sorry Emma, got to agree with Gus and Andy here. I think that a lot of people, once they get to a level where they enjoy themselves, and are doing things capably, are happy with that, and don't feel a need to push themselves any further.
But, I'd definitely say that's their choice, and there's nothing wrong with that at all :worthy:
Trampy
(11 more to go!)
ChrisA
9th-August-2004, 07:46 AM
I think the majority of people who do MJ reach a point where they're satisfied with their level and don't feel the need to progress. They might even feel insulted if you suggest they've got more to learn. These people are the lucky ones :clap: They don't feel the need to travel further and further to learn more and more: they go to their local class, go to the odd dance, are happy with what they do and that's it.
I've danced with a lot of people like this over nearly five years at the venue I've been going to most regularly and for the longest time.
And without a single exception I can think of, every single one of the people that crank my arm in a semicircle when I rotate round the classes, yank me about, and refuse to follow, are in this group.
Whereas on the contrary, the ones that are obviously keen to improve do so, and quite a few of them have turned out to be great to dance with.
Who are we to say they're wrong?
Certainly not me, unless I have to dance with them. :devil:
There may be some dancers who are lovely to dance with but have no desire to get any better... and if I encounter any then I'll be happy to revise my view.
Chris
ChrisA
9th-August-2004, 07:51 AM
Spot the CTA graduate
and what's wrong with that? :confused:
I don't recall saying there was anything wrong with that :D
Chris
Emma
9th-August-2004, 10:21 AM
Its not a patronising thing to say there are limitations to what one can learn. I simply cannot get lindy style footwork or anything that requires tap like ability ... just not within my capabilities ... so it would seem likely that their are dancers who are "challenged" by lead and follow or picking up the dance rhythm ... fair comment?Of course it's fair comment Gus - I for one find lead and follow extremely challenging (indeed I find myself almost completely obsessed by it at times). It was the dismissive vocabulary of your comment I found difficult to stomach. :nice:
Sorry Emma, got to agree with Gus and Andy here. I think that a lot of people, once they get to a level where they enjoy themselves, and are doing things capably, are happy with that, and don't feel a need to push themselves any further.Yep, I agree that there are many many people who do not feel the need to push themselves further within MJ. In fact I would say that they are in the majority. However I still feel it is possible to teach these people. Most of them are demonstrating their willingness to learn by doing the lesson week in, week out - if they didn't want to learn more then they could just appear for the freestyle, couldn't they?
Emma
9th-August-2004, 10:26 AM
Oh and Gus, I also think you could probably learn Lindy/Tap if you found the right teacher or the right teaching method.....because I'm a ****-eyed optimist when it comes to teaching and learning, otherwise I wouldn't be able to do the job! :wink: :cheers:
Lou
9th-August-2004, 10:44 AM
I've danced with a lot of people like this over nearly five years at the venue I've been going to most regularly and for the longest time.
And without a single exception I can think of, every single one of the people that crank my arm in a semicircle when I rotate round the classes, yank me about, and refuse to follow, are in this group.
Whereas on the contrary, the ones that are obviously keen to improve do so, and quite a few of them have turned out to be great to dance with.
I can't help but think you're being a bit overly harsh here, Chris. It's going back to that "unconcious incompetence" thing. There's a lot of dancers who don't know any different. If a teacher starts to teach every move with the words "semi circle with the hands & step back" (or your local variation), then those people in the class will do that & obviously think it's what should be done in class at the start of the move. These dancers are still going to their local class for more lessons - this seems to indicate a willingness to improve. It's just they don't know it's a problem!
Again, with the yanking (or bouncing, or circling, or whatever this week's favourite moan is) - unless someone corrects them - how will they know?
L-x-
Emma
9th-August-2004, 10:49 AM
Lou, you took the response right out of my keyboard :)
Gus
9th-August-2004, 10:53 AM
Oh and Gus, I also think you could probably learn Lindy/Tap if you found the right teacher or the right teaching method:
Urrr... I gave up Cereoc for 6 months and went to classes by Simon Selmon and did workshops with James Hamilton and Franky Manning ( :worthy: :worthy: :worthy: ) .... if those guys can't get Lindy into my head I think I am truly past redemption :sad:
Emma
9th-August-2004, 10:57 AM
Urrr... I gave up Ceroc for 6 months and went to classes by Simon Selmon and did workshops with James Hamilton and Franky Manning ( :worthy: :worthy: :worthy: ) .... if those guys can't get Lindy into my head I think I am truly past redemption :sad:Maybe they should have been using Amir's 'new' teaching method? :devil: (but point taken! ;) ).
Andy McGregor
9th-August-2004, 11:29 AM
- unless someone corrects them - how will they know?
L-x-
The first, and last time I did this in a freestyle the answer I got was very frosty, I received a death-stare and was told "I've been dancing 5 years, I know how to dance".
Gadget
9th-August-2004, 11:34 AM
I think it's most often not wanting to change. I'm not certain but I think the majority of people who do MJ reach a point where they're satisfied with their level and don't feel the need to progress. They might even feel insulted if you suggest they've got more to learn. These people are the lucky ones :clap: They don't feel the need to travel further and further to learn more and more: they go to their local class, go to the odd dance, are happy with what they do and that's it.
People start MJ and learn how to dance - to say that they reach a level where they can dance and are satisfied to remain at that level is a bit far fetched IMHO.
Some may reach a level and think "I am learning nothing new any more." Some may reach a plateau and feel that they can't progress any more. Some may feel that they don't want to spend the time/energy to improve. These people may accept that they may not progress beyond their current level, but that is far from being satisfied with their current level: I don't think that anyone would ever turn down an opportunity to be a better dancer.
Lou
9th-August-2004, 11:41 AM
The first, and last time I did this in a freestyle the answer I got was very frosty, I received a death-stare and was told "I've been dancing 5 years, I know how to dance".
It's a good point, Andy, and it illustrates the unconscious incompetence idea very well. I remember being at that stage myself and I probably would have replied the same way in your partner's shoes.
Now, of course, I'm in the conscious incompetence stage and appreciate any help at all! :grin:
Tiggerbabe
9th-August-2004, 11:54 AM
Now, of course, I'm in the conscious incompetence stage and appreciate any help at all! :grin:
Hey kewl name Lou :D I like it!
What she said - any help greatly appreciated :hug: :kiss:
Lou
9th-August-2004, 12:15 PM
Hey kewl name Lou :D I like it!
What she said - any help greatly appreciated :hug: :kiss:
Actually - it was PeterL who put the term in my head, some while ago. I'd heard about the theory befre, way back when I was doing a diversity in the workforce training course, but he made a post on the hardest thing when you started to learn (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56&page=2) thread that made me associate it with MJ. :nice:
ChrisA
9th-August-2004, 12:19 PM
I can't help but think you're being a bit overly harsh here, Chris.
I'm not being harsh at all, just making an observation - that it's the ones that aren't improving that tend to be the ones that yank and crank. I have five years or so of observations at a single Ceroc venue, where many of the people have been going there for nearly that long.
I'm not saying anything about whether they should be improving, it's none of my business. Most of them seem to like it, or they wouldn't keep coming back.
And I may be wrong - I'm just reporting my subjective impression of whether the people I have in mind are improving.
It's going back to that "unconcious incompetence" thing. There's a lot of dancers who don't know any different. If a teacher starts to teach every move with the words "semi circle with the hands & step back" (or your local variation), then those people in the class will do that & obviously think it's what should be done in class at the start of the move.
Of course. I'm not disputing this at all. I'm not saying they're bad people, or that they shouldn't go dancing. I'm not even saying they should go to Hipsters :D :devil:
I'm not offering any judgement at all, in fact. Just noting the strong correlation between those that AFAICT aren't improving, and where in their dance development they stopped learning. The ones that do continue to improve, even the ones that hit a plateau and maybe stay on it for a while, tend to have only a very short "yank and crank" phase, if they have one at all.
These dancers are still going to their local class for more lessons - this seems to indicate a willingness to improve. It's just they don't know it's a problem!
Of course. But it betrays a certain lack of awareness to dance week in, week out, go to lessons, not improve significantly over several years, and not know it. Or they might know it FAIK, and not care, which is their right.
Again, with the yanking (or bouncing, or circling, or whatever this week's favourite moan is) - unless someone corrects them - how will they know?
Again, true. But it is also the ones that haven't improved significantly for years, and yank you about, that also go completely ballistic at the faintest friendly suggestion that maybe they might consider doing something differently - exactly as Andy says.
But be all this as it may, none of it affects me at all until I have to dance with them. And with now two (fortunately minor) injuries - one to my knee and one to my shoulder - that get rapidly worse when I dance with people in this category, I feel a lot less inclined to be tolerant of the yanking about that I get.
Chris
spindr
9th-August-2004, 12:39 PM
I think some people just don't have time to get to different venues. Everything they learn comes effectively from a single Modern Jive teacher.
I don't believe that any one teacher however great they are will necessarily explain things to me how *I* may need them explained. (Gus, it took me ~4/5 false starts before the lindy turn "clicked" for me -- so maybe you just need a teacher to explain it in terms that suit you, e.g. Steven Mitchell (http://www.jazzjiveswing.com/events/sultans%20of%20swing/stevemitchellevents.html)?)
Frankly, I think that to get proficient at Modern Jive and especially lead and follow -- you probably have to go to more than one venue (possibly franchise). Since, if I can dance a previous routine tonight with a different set of followers, then there's more of a chance of me actually leading it. (ODA: this is almost a reason *not* to teach the same beginner routines on the same night).
Then why limit yourself to getting ideas just from Modern Jive teachers -- steal them from anyone and everyone. WCS seems to be good for promoting a really good open dancehold. Salsa seems to excell in promoting styling for ladies, etc., etc.
Don't just be a jiver -- be a dancer!
SpinDr.
ChrisA
9th-August-2004, 12:43 PM
just making an observation - that it's the ones that aren't improving that tend to be the ones that yank and crank.
Oops I said this the wrong way round !!
I meant, of course, that it's the ones that yank and crank that tend to be the ones that aren't improving.
Not the same meaning at all. Some of the ones not improving don't yank :)
Chris
Lou
9th-August-2004, 12:50 PM
But be all this as it may, none of it affects me at all until I have to dance with them. And with now two (fortunately minor) injuries - one to my knee and one to my shoulder - that get rapidly worse when I dance with people in this category, I feel a lot less inclined to be tolerant of the yanking about that I get.
Maybe we're luckier in Bristol with our yankers. I can only think of one intermediate, with a background of Rock n Roll Jive, but she seems to be temporing her tendencies a little more these days. I've had beginners who want to do their own thing - but it's up to the lead to guide them. To be brutally honest, it's a million times worse when you dance with a yanking man. There's a lot less oportunity for escape or to ease the tension when you follow.
Nevertheless, it's an interesting observation that you make concerning the link between "crank & yank" (love the term!) Is it a particular problem at that one venue, or is it more widespread, I wonder? Do your teachers dance with the class at your regular venue (where they could pick up on this fault)?
Have some sympathy for we followers - it doesn't come naturally to some of us (especially those of us who hate to relinquish control ;) :whistle: ), and particularly when it's not a technique that's typically taught at your average class!
Rachel
9th-August-2004, 12:55 PM
I think I agree with all of you in parts!
Yes, I think you can teach anyone just about anything - providing that they want to learn and that they see how it's relevant to them.
I can imagine there are many people who would like to be better dancers, but not necessarily if it's more effort than it's worth.
Then people who really don't have the desire to improve any more - cos they don't need to. They can get up and dance with most people and have a bloody good night out. That's all they want to be able to do. Absolutely nothing wrong with that either.
And other people who honestly think they know all they need to know already. Usually the ones who you only ever see at the one venue - they may never go to other venues, workshops, competitions, weekends, watch dance videos, etc. And without knowing what else is out there, how would they ever know they're not 'the Best'?
As Emma says, a lot of these people are actually turning up for the start of the classes and getting actively involved. So you'd think, wouldn't you?, that they really want to learn. But they don't always seem to. While they're doing the class, you can see them talking to their partner, paying no attention whatsoever to the teacher, blatantly ignoring any key points (which might be directed specifically at them!), doing the new class moves but always reverting back to the same few moves, in the same style, when they're freestyling. Again, if that's what they want to do, that's fine with me. And I'll still enjoy dancing with most of them.
But I'm just really curious as to why they'd go to the bother of doing the class, if not to learn? Is it just a better opportunity to meet and talk to dance partners? And is there any point in the teacher even trying to force their points across to these individuals?
Rachel
TheTramp
9th-August-2004, 12:59 PM
I don't think that anyone would ever turn down an opportunity to be a better dancer.
That's so true. If I had a magic wand, and I could wave it, and turn people into better dancers, then I'm sure that no-one would ever turn down the opportunity.
Apart from that, see what Rachel said above. I agree with it all :flower:
Trampy
MartinHarper
9th-August-2004, 01:11 PM
The idea of folks who have stopped improving being the ones who "yank and crank" reminded me of the "Peter Principle" - the idea that people in an organisation are promoted until they reach their level of incompetence, at which point they stop being promoted and start doing damage.
Perhaps modern jivers are taught more and more advanced stuff, until they reach their level of incompetence, at which point they stop going to more advanced classes, and start "yanking"? Their brains eventually overflow, with devastating consequences for their dancing ability.
Well, it's a theory... :)
ChrisA
9th-August-2004, 01:12 PM
To be brutally honest, it's a million times worse when you dance with a yanking man. There's a lot less oportunity for escape or to ease the tension when you follow.
I totally accept this. I'm on record innumerable times here in support of the ladies that get yanked about - I simply do not believe you should dance with guys that persistently yank you.
Tell them!!! The nice ones will do their utmost to reform, and you don't need to be concerned with the feelings of the guys who won't listen. Just turn them down instead.
Nevertheless, it's an interesting observation that you make concerning the link between "crank & yank" (love the term!) Is it a particular problem at that one venue, or is it more widespread, I wonder? Do your teachers dance with the class at your regular venue (where they could pick up on this fault)?
I'm not sure - I have certainly danced with a lot of long term intermediate ladies at venues other than my long-term regular one, who yank. Hanging heavily on my arm, for instance, in a turn because they've never learned to maintain their balance. Or pulling down after a turn, rather than waiting to see if I lower and lead them back.
The teacher probably doesn't dance with many of the girls in freestyle, but she does with many of the guys!
Have some sympathy for we followers - it doesn't come naturally to some of us (especially those of us who hate to relinquish control ;) :whistle: ), and particularly when it's not a technique that's typically taught at your average class!
I have enormous sympathy, for the most part. As Amir posted once, we spend our whole lives taking responsibility for where we're going, and then the girls have to suspend all that and learn to follow. It's a terrific achievement when they do it well, and a huge pleasure for me :clap:
Chris
ChrisA
9th-August-2004, 01:16 PM
Perhaps modern jivers are taught more and more advanced stuff, until they reach their level of incompetence, at which point they stop going to more advanced classes, and start "yanking"? Their brains eventually overflow, with devastating consequences for their dancing ability.
I think most ladies that yank do so because they have had to defend themselves against guys that yank - so they learn to exert large forces and for some reason don't discriminate between when they have to and when they don't.
Most beginner ladies do not yank.
As I've said before, there is nowhere near enough teaching IMHO about the fact that leading is not about forcing.
Chris
Gadget
9th-August-2004, 01:22 PM
But be all this as it may, none of it affects me at all until I have to dance with them. And with now two (fortunately minor) injuries - one to my knee and one to my shoulder - that get rapidly worse when I dance with people in this category, I feel a lot less inclined to be tolerant of the yanking about that I get.
Perhaps I'm just lucky. Perhaps all the Scottish folk are just good dancers. But I have never ever suffered from anyone forcing my arm/shoulder anywhere.
With all these good dancers complaining about it, I am beginning to wonder if I am doing something wrong :sick: The only potentially dangerous thing I have had happen is ladies throwing themselves into dips & seducers and expecting me to catch them. (or tangling up feet :blush: )
Personally, I think that it's all in the grip (or lack thereof) - if the lady wants to move in a potentially dangerous manor, then it breaks contact and everyone is safe.
There is a lot of teaching about "compression/tension" - allowing the 'feel' and 'feedback' through the finger contact with your partner. As a lead, I equal the ammount of tension I feel from my partner to come to an equilibrium between us. In some ladies, this is like a strong rubber-band. In others, it's like cotton-wool. The ability of the lady does not seem to matter. That tension in a 'normal' state (dancing a few beginner moves) is what I seek to maintain throught the whole dance. If the tension increases past this, then the band snaps and we loose contact.
As a preference, I like the tension to be about enough that we could dance with a grape held between the contact and not squish it. From everyone I've danced with, I think that's probably a bit light for most people.
{workshop idea? bag of grapes and some sellotape to fix to fingers...could be.. interesting :D If anyone tries this, let me know how it works.}
Perhaps I'm just not doing dangerous enough moves? Should live life on the edge more?
ChrisA
9th-August-2004, 01:32 PM
Perhaps I'm just lucky. Perhaps all the Scottish folk are just good dancers. But I have never ever suffered from anyone forcing my arm/shoulder anywhere.
Well all the Scottish gals I've had the pleasure to dance with haven't yanked me about at all. They've all been lovely to dance with in my experience.
So there you go. The English are a terrible lot after all :devil:
Maybe some of you Scots shouldn't get so antsy about some of us liking the sort of teaching we get at Hipsters, and waxing so lyrical about it. We probably need it more than you do :D
Chris
Gadget
9th-August-2004, 01:35 PM
But I'm just really curious as to why they'd go to the bother of doing the class, if not to learn? Is it just a better opportunity to meet and talk to dance partners? And is there any point in the teacher even trying to force their points across to these individuals?
I would assume that they attend the class because it's part of the night. And they go to that night because it's a social thing. I would think that for a lot of them, it's never really occured to them that they could just attend and sit out the class - or if it has, they don't want to be branded with some sort of lable by doing so.
Some of the leads may join in to boost the numbers of men rather than to learn.
Should the teacher try to outline what they are doing wrong (avoiding pointing & naming)? I think they should - they may not be the only one doing it incorrectly and it would server to boost the confidence of those who are doing it right.
Rachel
9th-August-2004, 01:47 PM
I would assume that they attend the class because it's part of the night. And they go to that night because it's a social thing. I would think that for a lot of them, it's never really occured to them that they could just attend and sit out the class - or if it has, they don't want to be branded with some sort of lable by doing so.
Some of the leads may join in to boost the numbers of men rather than to learn. I think you're right, here.
Should the teacher try to outline what they are doing wrong (avoiding pointing & naming)? I think they should - they may not be the only one doing it incorrectly and it would server to boost the confidence of those who are doing it right. That's good point! Though it can be demoralising when you think it's all falling on deaf ears...
When demo'ing, I sometimes stare at the people who I know the 'key points' are being aimed at - a kind of 'I can see you're doing it wrong, so listen!'
I know I shouldn't ... Not that it seems to make much difference!
Rachel
bigdjiver
9th-August-2004, 03:31 PM
... When demo'ing, I sometimes stare at the people who I know the 'key points' are being aimed at - a kind of 'I can see you're doing it wrong, so listen!' ... and there I was, thinking that you fancied me ... :tears:
In a small independent class I sometimes attend, using the circle, scatter move around, the teacher invites selected couples to come to the centre to perform the routine. This does make me concentrate far more than normal.
Rachel
9th-August-2004, 03:42 PM
and there I was, thinking that you fancied me ... :tears: Ah well if I fancy someone, I try to smile at them as well as stare! :wink:
In a small independent class I sometimes attend, using the circle, scatter move around, the teacher invites selected couples to come to the centre to perform the routine. This does make me concentrate far more than normal. Wow - yes, that would focus the mind pretty well, wouldn't it!
Rachel
Sparkles
9th-August-2004, 03:46 PM
When demo'ing, I sometimes stare at the people who I know the 'key points' are being aimed at - a kind of 'I can see you're doing it wrong, so listen!'
In some of the classes I go to a tactic used by the teacher is to repeat the instruction they have just given until all the people in the room have completed it correctly - this sometimes takes a little while, but is non-specific and very effective...
"men left, ladies right.... men's left hand, ladies right hand.... men's LEFT hand.... MEN's left hand.... men's left HAND .... there we go - phew!" :rofl:
bigdjiver
9th-August-2004, 05:11 PM
In some of the classes I go to a tactic used by the teacher is to repeat the instruction they have just given until all the people in the room have completed it correctly - this sometimes takes a little while, but is non-specific and very effective...
"men left, ladies right.... men's left hand, ladies right hand.... men's LEFT hand.... MEN's left hand.... men's left HAND .... there we go - phew!" :rofl: I have seen class members who are not concentrating on that task eventually wake up to the fact that someone is delaying the class by getting it wrong, looking around, and being mortified to find out it is them. Some learn, some leave.
Sparkles
9th-August-2004, 05:13 PM
Some learn, some leave.
As with any method I guess... :flower:
quiet_flame
31st-August-2004, 09:59 AM
Then why limit yourself to getting ideas just from Modern Jive teachers -- steal them from anyone and everyone. WCS seems to be good for promoting a really good open dancehold. Salsa seems to excell in promoting styling for ladies, etc., etc.
Don't just be a jiver -- be a dancer!
SpinDr.
:yeah:
I must admit, I was guilty (a little :blush: ) of the old Yank and Crank Style (it's just so catchy) but as I progressed my lead has become lighter and lighter... then I dance with a beginner girl(I mean a first nighter) ... and I'm not sure if it goes to hell or not. I think I'm still a strong lead cos they do everythig I want them to (mostly... :) )but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm a forceful lead.
A distinction we've been bugging our teachers to make. (with some success) :clap:
I love the way a lead is described as "springy tension": such good imagery.
What more can you do than try to eliminate it through the teaching and commenting (nicely) about their lead. It's better than suffering in silence (as many dancers I know do)
under par
1st-September-2004, 04:35 AM
That's so true. If I had a magic wand, and I could wave it, and turn people into better dancers, then I'm sure that no-one would ever turn down the opportunity.
Apart from that, see what Rachel said above. I agree with it all :flower:
Trampy
me too. :yeah:
JamesGeary
1st-September-2004, 12:39 PM
And other people who honestly think they know all they need to know already. Usually the ones who you only ever see at the one venue - they may never go to other venues, workshops, competitions, weekends, watch dance videos, etc. And without knowing what else is out there, how would they ever know they're not 'the Best'?
Umm good strategy.
MartinHarper
1st-September-2004, 12:46 PM
"men left, ladies right.... men's left hand, ladies right hand.... men's LEFT hand.... MEN's left hand.... men's left HAND .... there we go - phew!"
You missed out "no, your OTHER left", which is usually the point where I twig on. :)
Gojive
1st-September-2004, 12:56 PM
The guy that first taught me to dance (Andy, Le-Jive South East), had a neat way of making sure we used the correct hand. He would say "Man's left - that's the one nearest the bar....". I always knew which hand to offer then! :yum:
....and on topic....we used to draw the semi-circle then as well :)
CJ
2nd-September-2004, 12:14 PM
Well all the Scottish gals I've had the pleasure to dance with haven't yanked me about at all.
Chris, you haven't lived til you've had a good yank off a Scottish girl... :wink:
ChrisA
2nd-September-2004, 12:23 PM
Chris, you haven't lived til you've had a good yank off a Scottish girl... :wink:
I can't yait.
Chris
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