Advanced Moves / Advanced lead + follow

[spindr]

In another thread, and of course lifting a quote without without supporting context (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?p=73997#post73997):


And when you show me a freestyle where the majority of men do many advanced moves I will be more than happy to do an advanced class in rotation. Sadly, a large proportion of men do 20 beginner moves and maybe a dozen intermediate moves in their standard repertoire.

Got me wondering what *is* an advanced move, then? And perhaps more importantly what is the advanced lead + follow needed for such moves?

Bearing in mind that we're talking non-choregraphed advanced moves suitable for social dancing in freestyle -- which I reckon rules out throws and lifts -- and probably most dips?

Thoughts?
SpinDr.

[Peter]

Got me wondering what *is* an advanced move, then? And perhaps more importantly what is the advanced lead + follow needed for such moves? Bearing in mind that we're talking non-choregraphed advanced moves suitable for social dancing in freestyle -- which I reckon rules out throws and lifts -- and probably most dips? Thoughts? SpinDr.

In freesytle, I try to lead several "what I call" advanced moves (mostly Viktor's or Nigel's) but find that 9 times out of 10 intermediate/advanced followers struggle to follow them ... Maybe its the way i lead them ... Fortunately most are happy to learn the move. But this does interrupt social dancing ...

I suspect this muddies the water ...

[Gus]

Maybe the question is whether the 'advanced' bit in the move itself or the way its performed? Case in point ... the 'Viktor' first move. I would call that an advanced move, the flow, the changing emphasis, the sheer presentation ... but in essence the basic moves are still just a first move ... its the way its executed that makes it advanced..... and its perfectly leadable. :grin:

[Daisy Chain]

In freesytle, I try to lead several "what I call" advanced moves (mostly Viktor's or Nigel's) but find that 9 times out of 10 intermediate/advanced followers struggle to follow them ... Maybe its the way i lead them ... Fortunately most are happy to learn the move. But this does interrupt social dancing ...



Personally, I'm not interested in advanced moves in freestyle. What this woman wants is lots of flowing moves with clear leads and lots of musical interpretation. My favourite moves are simple unsual ones that I've never experienced before but they work effortlessly because they have a clear unamphibious lead.


Can't be doing with these advanced moves with no lead or signals and I just hate it when a man stops me dead in the middle of the Mavericks in order to teach me his fancy footwork when I could be dancing the night away.


Daisy
A Simple Little Flower

[under par]

Personally, I'm not interested in advanced moves in freestyle. What this woman wants is lots of flowing moves with clear leads and lots of musical interpretation. My favourite moves are simple unsual ones that I've never experienced before but they work effortlessly because they have a clear unamphibious lead.


Can't be doing with these advanced moves with no lead or signals and I just hate it when a man stops me dead in the middle of the Mavericks in order to teach me his fancy footwork when I could be dancing the night away.


Daisy
A Simple Little Flower

oh so true.

Flowing moves with musical interptretation wins it for me. :yeah:

It beats having to remember how to lead those advanced moves. :whistle:

[DavidB]

they have a clear unamphibious lead.??? Leads that work on land or in water, but not both?

They have been amphibious dancing competitions before - lady sitting on mans shoulders, man wearing a snorkel, dancing with a similar couple on the beach with the water above the man's head. Beach Boogie next year anyone???

[Daisy Chain]

??? Leads that work on land or in water, but not both?

Beach Boogie next year anyone???

It's a date. Just don't get my hair wet. :mad:

[under par]

??? Leads that work on land or in water, but not both?

They have been amphibious dancing competitions before - lady sitting on mans shoulders, man wearing a snorkel, dancing with a similar couple on the beach with the water above the man's head. Beach Boogie next year anyone???


Surely the taller man would have a distinct advantage as he wouldn't need the snorkel!!!!!! :flower:

[mick]

Personally, I'm not interested in advanced moves in freestyle. What this woman wants is lots of flowing moves with clear leads and lots of musical interpretation. My favourite moves are simple unsual ones that I've never experienced before but they work effortlessly because they have a clear unamphibious lead.


Can't be doing with these advanced moves with no lead or signals and I just hate it when a man stops me dead in the middle of the Mavericks in order to teach me his fancy footwork when I could be dancing the night away.


Daisy
A Simple Little Flower

I did a workshop some time ago with a brazilian samba shool, doing, if I remember, about six simple moves (no partner) to a samba reggae tune. Then we performed it with the band playing and it was totally exhilarating, fantastic.
So you got the moves but have you got the touch.

[RobC]

??? Leads that work on land or in water, but not both?

They have been amphibious dancing competitions before - lady sitting on mans shoulders, man wearing a snorkel, dancing with a similar couple on the beach with the water above the man's head. Beach Boogie next year anyone???
You've never done an Andy & Rena Arials class on the beach before then ?

[DavidB]

Got me wondering what *is* an advanced move, then? And perhaps more importantly what is the advanced lead + follow needed for such moves? You only need the simple lead/follow skills to lead any move.

What I've been taught as 'advanced leading' is understanding when and how you need to lead, and then being able to exploit the gaps in between without inadvertently leading something else. Similarly 'advanced following' is being able to do exactly what is being led, and being able to add anything else you want without affecting your partner.

Advanced lead & follow usually works best with simple moves. As moves get more complicated you have less time to do anything.

David

[Sparkles]

Surely the taller man would have a distinct advantage as he wouldn't need the snorkel!!!!!! :flower:

A taller man always has a distinct advantage in my book :wink:

I agree though, that advanced moves don't have to contain a lot of fancy footwork or complicated twists, turns etc to ba advanced.
The best point of reference I can give is watching Matthew and Nicole Cutler (any ballroom bods out there?) when they were still together doing a "basic" Rumba. They did the equivalent of 8 beginners moves in Ceroc (but it was rumba, obviously) and it looked like an advanced open competition routien because of the way they used the music, emphasised different beats and accentuated the way they were moving with their bodies. It was breath-taking...
Anyone can be advanced and do advanced steps, it just takes practice. :worthy: :clap: :flower:

[RobC]

Anyone can be advanced and do advanced steps, it just takes practice. :worthy: :clap: :flower:
Unfortunatley some people require a lot more practise than others and a very patient partner (Chris Parker :eek: )

[MartinHarper]

What *is* an advanced move, then?

My take:
* Moves that are physically demanding on one or both partners. They might require high flexibility, balance, speed, or power. They might involve quick changes in direction or fast controlled spins. They might require body movements that are initially unnatural. They might require breaking movement habits.
* Moves that are demanding to lead. They might require a lot of precision in precisely when and where a lead is given, or in its size and direction. They might involve a rapid alteration of hold. They might require leading techniques that aren't taught as standard.
* Moves that are demanding to follow. They might require a good frame. They might require the ability to perceive the difference between two similar leads, and react accordingly. They might require following techniques that aren't taught as standard. They might require breaking anticipation habits.
* Moves that require abundant musicality and/or style to make them work well.

[Andy McGregor]

My take:
* Moves that are physically demanding on one or both partners. They might require high flexibility, balance, speed, or power. They might involve quick changes in direction or fast controlled spins. They might require body movements that are initially unnatural. They might require breaking movement habits.
* Moves that are demanding to lead. They might require a lot of precision in precisely when and where a lead is given, or in its size and direction. They might involve a rapid alteration of hold. They might require leading techniques that aren't taught as standard.
* Moves that are demanding to follow. They might require a good frame. They might require the ability to perceive the difference between two similar leads, and react accordingly. They might require following techniques that aren't taught as standard. They might require breaking anticipation habits.

These are not advanced moves, these are difficult moves. IMHO difficult does not mean advanced. My own opinion, which I have voiced many times, is that there are no advanced moves, there's just advanced dancing.

I got the silver medal in the Advanced Section of the UK LeRoc Championships without doing any difficult moves - and if I had done difficult moves the judges would have marked me down for making the moves look difficult.

[Gadget]

* Moves that require abundant musicality and/or style to make them work well.
The 'in and out'.:sick: The only way I have ever seen this move work well was with heaps of musicality and style. Is it an advanced move?

[Andreas]

I taught workshops with the request of teaching advanced moves. Bottom line of that, even if you only teach about 6-10 moves hardly anybody will do the majority of them because either they cannot comprehend them due to complexity or they don't practice enough to be able to lead them.

What I call advanced moves are either complex moves or 'dangrous' and/or difficult drops (or lifts for that matter). In essence a move becomes more advanced the more time is required to get it to work smoothly without the partner knowing what is coming up. I exclude aerials here deliberately because they are kind of irrelevant for a social dance floor anyway.

:cheers:

Regarding teaching advanced stuff only if you see a dance floor full of people dancing advanced moves. Who was first, the hen r the egg? :wink:

[jivecat]

It's a date. Just don't get my hair wet. :mad:


No way. That campsite doesn't have hair dryers. :tears:

[Daisy Chain]

No way. That campsite doesn't have hair dryers. :tears:

Camping? :what: I don't do camping. Not with my hair.

Daisy

(A 5 Star Hotel Flower)