More men! How do we find and keep them dancing??

[under par]

It appears to me reading through various threads that most venues struggle to keep the numbers of men and women balanced.

The most common compaint is of a lack of men, anecdotes of 10 to 20 women over at a lesson are common.

What is it that attracts more women to dancing?

What alternatively is it about MJ that fails to attract enough men and retain them as regular dancers?

I have my own thoughts which I will save for later.

I would like to see forum opinions on this topic.

If we could resolve this issue, oh how many satisfied customers MJ clasess would have. :cheers: :drool:

Wouldn't that be good for love, peace and understanding. :yeah:

[stewart38]

Based on a limited area of dance experience in the southeast / London I would suggest its a bit 'swings and roundabouts'

Seems now more women at most venues I attend but a year ago particularly this time of year seemed to be more men at many venues ?

Its odd sometimes at venues you can have even and next time 20 more women and the football theory doesnt work.

The biggest in balance seems to occur when its free (ie far more ladies) :whistle:

10yrs ago I think the imbalance was a lot worst i.e. move 35 ladies around etc

To answer the question maybe the macho image re dancing hasn’t fully gone yet ?

[Emma]

I would guess that-

1. Fewer men join in the first place, as culturally dancing is regarded as 'not macho'. I know several women whose partners won't dance becuase 'it's for poofs', and I imagine an equal amount of single men don't start for the same (or similar) reasons.

2. MJ is harder for men (at least initially), and their learning curve is much steeper. They have to lead from their first lesson (you're into freestyle!), and it's much harder and arguably more embarrassing for a beginner lead than a beginner follow. I would think there is a higher proportion of early male drop-outs.

[Andy McGregor]

To answer the question maybe the macho image re dancing hasn’t fully gone yet ?

I think this is right. My answer to my Rugby playing friends is to ask them a question "Compare rolling round in a muddy field with a bunch of guys to spending a night with 30 lycra clad women in your arms - which is the most 'manly'?" :devil:

But, back on thread. I think there are more women in dancing because women grow up dancing. How many women never went to a dance class when they were a girl? Most of them have done something in their youth, ballet, tap, modern, even ballroom. Compare this to guys, if we did anything it was judo, karate, football, fishing, Scouting, etc.

So, no I don't think most guys worry about being seen as a cissy if they dance - especially jive, which is also done by Hells Angels, who I wouldn't accuse of being cissy :eek: I don't think most guys give dancing any thought at all, it just doesn't cross their mind.

Has anyone seen a good way to get guys to come dancing?

[Emma]

But, back on thread. I think there are more women in dancing because women grow up dancing. How many women never been to a dance class when they were a girl? Most of them have done something in their youth, ballet, tap, modern, even ballroom. Compare this to guys, if we did anything it was judo, karate, football, fishing, Scouting, etc.What Andy said ;)


So, no I don't think most guys worry about being seen as a cissy if they dance - especially jive, which is also done by Hells Angels, who I wouldn't accuse of being cissy :eek: I don't think most guys give dancing any though at all, it just doesn't cross their mind.
I can feel a poll coming on :nice:

[MartinHarper]

Once at Ceroc Cheltenham, I heard the teacher apologising that the previous week he'd taught a move where the guy had lots of stuff to do, but the woman mostly just hung around doing nothing, and promised he'd stay away from such moves in the future (or that was the gist of it, anyway). Given that the venue typically has more women than men, this struck me as somewhat counter-productive. :)

If a venue is at capacity already, I guess the only way to make more money from it is to increase the number of wallflowers, since they all pay the standard rate. I can't believe anyone would aim to do that, though.

[Tiggerbabe]

I know several women whose partners won't dance because 'it's for poofs'
I know one gay dancer whose partner won't dance for the same reason :wink: :whistle:

[HeatherX]

I have noticed that when new women come along to a dance night they come in pairs, threes or even fours. When new men come along, they are almost always alone.

I am not sure why this is.

Something to do with women feeling a bit uncomfortable without a pal (or two or three) at a new venue....and men don't?

[Lory]

I have noticed that when new women come along to a dance night they come in pairs, threes or even fours. When new men come along, they are almost always alone.

:yeah: I think that's one of the biggest problems, I just can't imagine many men saying to their work colleges, sporting mates or drinking pals, Hey, fancy coming dancing tonight? Or even, I've started this knew hobby, dancing! .........e.t.c

Women probably want their friends there as moral support, cos women say nice things to each other, when they need a boost of confidence, they will pick on a good point and share it with their friend or say things like, NO you look fine! :hug: but some of the men I know, would take great glee in telling their mates, Hey, your c**p, or Two left feet if ever I saw some! :D

Now I KNOW there's nothing wrong with men talking about it but I'm just pointing out that they probably don't (and yeah yeah I know there are always exceptions to the rule) :)

As for keeping them there, I think they need lot's of humour, maybe a licenced bar and lot's of confidence boosting (probably more so than the women) I know from experience that some men gave up, cos they looked round the room and saw men who could 'do it' looking cool and if they couldn't look like that instantly, its was a NO NO! :cool:

[Gus]

I have noticed that when new women come along to a dance night they come in pairs, threes or even fours. When new men come along, they are almost always alone.


Good point. We've managed to retain a few 'single' blokes but our real result (so far) is a group pf 4 lads, all early 20's. They still come and seem to be enjoying it. May have something to do with the fact that on the first night they ended up sitting next to a bunch of new lasses, all early 20's and attractive ...... think this may be the answer!!

[under par]

:yeah:
As for keeping them there, I think they need lot's of humour, maybe a licenced bar and lot's of confidence boosting (probably more so than the women) I know from experience that some men gave up, cos they looked round the room and saw men who could 'do it' looking cool and if they couldn't look like that instantly, its was a NO NO! :cool:

I think that it is in the interests of all teachers/venues/dancers etc to encourage all newbies to come again.

I think it is even more important that teachers/venues make an extra effort with new male dancers.
The reasons mentioned in the threads above ie; 1.more difficult to learn to lead initially than follow 2. men often arrive alone and tend not to have moral support with them, being the main reasons.

Nowhere I have ever been to for a beginners lessons have the new male leads ever been taken to one side and given extra peptalk or extra help with the difficulties of lead and follow specific the role of male lead.
Nor any other incentive ie reduced entry costs for short period whilst they consolidate.

Many places do consolidation classes for both male and female dancers but the poor male newbie dancer with his fragile ego and low self esteem I think is the one person teachers should be doing a lot more for.

It would certainly have a pay huge dividends for all venues(financially) and lady dancers(more dances for all) if the new male dancers could be encouraged to stay with MJ.

Selfishly it would not be in my interests to have too many more males dancing but for the better good of all the ladies who have to sit out half the night lets see if more can be done please.

[Trish]

Nowhere I have ever been to for a beginners lessons have the new male leads ever been taken to one side and given extra peptalk or extra help with the difficulties of lead and follow specific the role of male lead.
Nor any other incentive ie reduced entry costs for short period whilst they consolidate.


The taxi dancers and Thursday night venue manager at Peterborough always take the new guys away on their own and talk to them about leading/what moves are easier to pick up on/what to do if you "freeze" in freestyle, which I think a lot of them appreciate. Personally I tend to spend a lot more time with the men than the women :wink: when I taxi as I think they need it. I get the impression that most of the guys are ok when they're in the first six weeks or so, but if they're finding it difficult after this, they feel a failure. I tend to tell them when I'm taxiing that it takes as long as it takes (often a lot longer than six weeks) and they shouldn't be discouraged. I can understand why they are though, especially if other guys starting at the same time pick it up quicker than they do.

I agree with UP about reduced costs for a longer period for men. Both the guys and the women at our venue get something like 4 £2 off vouchers for their first few weeks, but that's not long enough to encourage the men, and we're often overrun with women as it is!

[Gordon J Pownall]

There was also the thread - how do we keep beginners in teh archives somehwere - that might offer a little insight.

More men - sorry we're fickle - lovely ladies and a bar and more on offer than a night down the pub, tinkering with cars, football or other bastions of male life....

....and before you start.......


I KNow...

not all men,

women mess with cars too,

etc,

etc,

:whistle:

[david gunn]

Hi to all!
first ever post.
To the experienced lady dancers I would say dance, talk to and encourage new men.
Lisa, lorna, Yvonne, Isabel, Sheena and many other excellent ladies in Aberdeen do (with a smile) and it helped me tremendously.
I am relatively new to Ceroc, and even though I started with a partner, initially we both tended to watch more than dance because I was still unable to lead for the first few crucial weeks. This is where encouragement from experienced dancers comes in.
Again we both found it quite a jump moving up to intermediate and I suspect some people might give up or feel discouraged (as we did) at this point.

Finally, getting new men in the door seems to be a major problem and one good suggestion I heard was a 'free' night for ladies who bring a new man; and I hope that won't be misconstrued by some!

[HeatherX]

David, all you say is quite right. I always make a point of dancing with new men - I enjoy it! I try to be encouraging, and not do the moves for them (though that is hard with someone on their first night - I do find I am lifting their arms and returning myself under them!
:grin:

The free night is an excellent idea.

[Gordon J Pownall]

Hi to all!
first ever post.

David - Hi...

A huge welcome from me Gordy - welcome to the Forum and I hope you have many happy hours neglecting work at the taxpayers / bosses expense whilst watching the hours pass as you sit on the Furum.

We are a very friendly bunch so do feel free to tell us a bit about yourself on the thread marked - BY WAY OF AN INTRODUCTION

Just beware of Andy McGregor :really: , Gordon J Pownall :eek: , UnderPar :whistle: and The Dreadful Scathe :rolleyes: - they are all nutters you know - Andy and Gordon are gimps as well - slaves to their Masters....... :what: :what: :what:

But I digress - have fun and enjoy ...

Gordon... :cheers:

[Lory]

Hi to all!
first ever post.

Hi David, :) first of many we hope! :hug:

[under par]

David - Hi...

A huge welcome from me Gordy - welcome to the Forum and I hope you have many happy hours neglecting work at the taxpayers / bosses expense whilst watching the hours pass as you sit on the Furum.

We are a very friendly bunch so do feel free to tell us a bit about yourself on the thread marked - BY WAY OF AN INTRODUCTION

Just beware of Andy McGregor :really: , Gordon J Pownall :eek: , UnderPar :whistle: and The Dreadful Scathe :rolleyes: - they are all nutters you know - Andy and Gordon are gimps as well - slaves to their Masters....... :what: :what: :what:

But I digress - have fun and enjoy ...

Gordon... :cheers:


Hears sound of scream......footsteps running into distance ......a door slam shut......faint sound of sobbing discerned from behind closed door...

[Andy McGregor]

Hears sound of scream......footsteps running into distance ......a door slam shut......faint sound of sobbing discerned from behind closed door...

See, my fellow Gimp, Gordy, did say that under par is a nutter. It's the altitude - UP is 17' 9 3/4" and still growing :wink:

..but please be gentle with him as he loses a year of his life expectancy for every two inches over the proper height for a male dancer - which, as everyone knows is in the range 5' 7" to 5' 8" :innocent:

[Gordon J Pownall]

See, my fellow Gimp, Gordy, did say that under par is a nutter. It's the altitude - UP is 17' 9 3/4" and still growing :wink:

..but please be gentle with him as he loses a year of his life expectancy for every two inches over the proper height for a male dancer - which, as everyone knows is in the range 5' 7" to 5' 8" :innocent:

Indeed Andy - we mustn't mock the afflicted.... :whistle: :whistle: :innocent:

[under par]

Getting back on topic are there any other ideas for getting new men to the dance classes and retaining them there for all the lovely women (and Andy!) to dance with instead of sitting out. :really:

Serious mode ON

[MartinHarper]

A beach volleyball style dress code. Though this may not attract the sort of men you wish to retain...

[Andy McGregor]

A beach volleyball style dress code. Though this may not attract the sort of men you wish to retain...

It might also attract women you'd rather not see in 'beach volleyball' style clothing :sick:

[Little Em]

just to go back to the original thread ....................

i think we need to find out where our guys hung out before they started dancing ...i.e they used to play rugby or go sailing????

guys what did you do.........then once i know i might go an do a few demos at these kinds of places!!!!

am i making sense??!?!! :what:

[Andy McGregor]

just to go back to the original thread ....................

i think we need to find out where our guys hung out before they started dancing ...i.e they used to play rugby or go sailing????

guys what did you do.........then once i know i might go an do a few demos at these kinds of places!!!!

am i making sense??!?!! :what:

Brilliant, idea - well done littleemc :clap:

Like me, I know a lot of guys did martial arts.

Maybe someone could set up a poll.

[under par]

just to go back to the original thread ....................

i think we need to find out where our guys hung out before they started dancing ...i.e they used to play rugby or go sailing????

guys what did you do.........then once i know i might go an do a few demos at these kinds of places!!!!

am i making sense??!?!! :what:

Positive...positve good idea littleemc. :clap: :worthy:

Being a career shift worker I've always hung out at home which is of no help whatsoever but I am sure others might be able to assist with venues for demos. :yeah:

[Little Em]

I think what we need to do is go an tell our friends about this thread and then when we have a few guys posting i can then go an organise some promos!!! woo!! :clap: :cheers:

so ....so far we have

martial arts
at home!!!(though i draw the line @ busking inpeeps front rooms!!! :whistle:
)


em xxx

[Little Em]

Brilliant, idea - well done littleemc :clap:

Like me, I know a lot of guys did martial arts.

Maybe someone could set up a poll.



so.....where did you do your martial arts????? remind me to b nice to you if we get to have a dance!! :wink:

[Andy McGregor]

so.....where did you do your martial arts?????

In freezing cold halls in London, North Wales and Yorkshire.


remind me to b nice to you if we get to have a dance!! :wink:

I'm sure you're lovely to everyone...

[Zuhal]

In the interests of expanding my repertoire I attended a Salsa class (first time) and if any of your remember the old John Cleese business training films it was an example of how to put off a newbie man (with a fragile ego)


Rocked up and announced myself as a new person and got relieved of my money. No explanation no friendly chat no nothing.
The basic lesson taught 4 steps. Men and Ladies in separate groups with a separate teacher. No problem
Then we came together and the ratio was one man to four women.
Now some of the moves that we learned individually were followed by the ladies and some were mirrored. That critical piece of instruction was missing.
As I was ‘leading’, I managed to ruin the mirror move when we got to it.
When I asked the teachers for clarification they chose to belittle me rather than listen to the question.
Apart from loving themselves beyond belief the delivery of the class was quite good.
Of the four men in the group one man had it and all the ladies had it. The other two men legged it straight after the class never to be seen again.

I then watched the Intermediate class.The same ratio applied so the poor ladies were adrift in their circle 3/4 of the time.

Then the freestyle started and rather than be my gregarious self I wondered what would happen if I just sat and looked lost. By now there was 52 ladies in the hall and ten men. The men were obviously fully employed so I was wondering if anyone might consider it worth investing some time in a future partner. The teachers danced with each other. I continued to wonder. Finally I asked a competent lady who had joined in a class and helped by dancing as a man. She helped me for two tracks and some progress was made.

It was all very humbling. Next week I will annoy a lot more ladies and make more progress. I know that if I had been to this class before a MJ evening I would have been put off for good.

Zuhal

[HeatherX]

That's just disgraceful and very rude - I think looking after men so they come back should be a number one priority in any dance class!

[Little Em]

That's just disgraceful and very rude - I think looking after men so they come back should be a number one priority in any dance class!



i totally agree with you on this one!!!!

thats why we need to know where to find more of them so that all the lovely ladies on the forum can entice them to stay!!!!! :wink: :clap:

come on guys an girls can we throw some ideas around?..... where can we go an do some promos to get the men flocking to MJ?!?!!? :grin:

[Stuart M]

In the interests of expanding my repertoire I attended a Salsa class (first time) and if any of your remember the old John Cleese business training films it was an example of how to put off a newbie man (with a fragile ego)
...
It was all very humbling. Next week I will annoy a lot more ladies and make more progress. I know that if I had been to this class before a MJ evening I would have been put off for good.

Zuhal
Sounds like my own experience of Salsa classes. I've gone to 2 different ones locally and found they made little effort to welcome me. Also they had fixed partners throughout the lesson, and no freestyle after it. I'd have had to wait until after the improver lesson, before I got a chance to put my knowledge into practice. Didn't go back...

Guess this is why salsa has a problem with sleazy blokes (well, I've often heard this from ladies who gave up salsa and came to Ceroc instead): the sleazeballs will be more determined to 'learn' as it's simply a means to an end for them. Whereas the guys with fragile egos, and the shy, just give up early on (OK, it's not either/or with sleazeballs/shy, but generally it is the case, no?).

[Gordon J Pownall]

OK - not particularly PC but it worked......

Get entry into a nightclub (not on the same night as the Ceroc night) and do a busk (no different than that which you would do in a town centre etc....)
If you can get a teacher to do a mini-class as part of the 'busk' in the club (just two moves) then so much the better.
Then, (the non-PC part), the lovely team of ceroc ladies, all night club clad and looking 'the part' :yum: grab a load of men, ask them to dance, flirt a little and all the time extolling the virtues of a good ceroc night - everything that a night club isn't :-

No waiting until 1.50am and ten lagers before asking the girl you've been staring at for 3 hours to dance.... :clap:
No expensive memberships
Most venues are licensed - get a beer as well :clap:
Endless opportunities to actually engage with a member of the opposite sex (where that is the persons preference) in a safe and positive way :yum: :clap:

and so on and so on.....

The more 'attractively dressed / flirtatious' the girls can be the better - sorry told you it wasn't PC but blokes respond to babes.....simple creatures that we are.... :waycool:

A man who has a quick five minutes holding a pretty girls hand when she has made the first move on him, she wants to dance with him, physical contact has taken place and if he were to come to Ceroc he could have large portions of the same experience.....

Start the car now....!!!!! :really:

I did see it work - no..... it isn't PC but my brother is looking for local Ceroc venue near him now...!!! as are three or four of his friends....... :yeah:

[baldrick]

just to go back to the original thread ....................

i think we need to find out where our guys hung out before they started dancing ...i.e they used to play rugby or go sailing????

guys what did you do.........then once i know i might go an do a few demos at these kinds of places!!!!

am i making sense??!?!! :what:


Lots of guys, often single, in the world of "adventure sports". I've been though mountain biking, climbing, white water kayaking and paragliding and all have low levels of female participation. And before anyone asks yes ceroc is as exciting. The constant demand to figure out what comes next keeps the mind racing to keep up ( or is that just me?).

[bigdjiver]

I do not like the idea of free admission for someone bring along a new member. It would deter me, I would not have a profit motive for promoting MJ, and I would not want to be perceived as having one. I believe you should try and bring your friends along as a favour to them.

[Gus]

I do not like the idea of free admission for someone bring along a new member. It would deter me, I would not have a profit motive for promoting MJ, and I would not want to be perceived as having one. I believe you should try and bring your friends along as a favour to them.

Well if you were a MJ promoter you will do whatever you can to get more men in ... and these type of promotions do bear results. Theory is great ... but often it fails to work in practice so its back to the tried and tested methods ..... as galling as they may be :sad:

[cerocmetro]

just to go back to the original thread ....................

i think we need to find out where our guys hung out before they started dancing ...i.e they used to play rugby or go sailing????

guys what did you do.........then once i know i might go an do a few demos at these kinds of places!!!!

am i making sense??!?!! :what:

Right idea but I think just needs amending a bit. Men hung out in way too many different places BC, (before Ceroc), the question needs to be and this is where we need a poll,
"Why did they stay and also just as important, why did they not stay?"

I stayed initially coz of the girls. I stayed coz I had a bit of rhythm and found I could pick it up easily, which helped get the girls, . I stayed even when we moved round 52 guys coz the girls were worth fighting over.

I had no intention of becoming a good dancer. I did not see the whole night as a dance class. I was entertained, I was kept occupied, I had a great night out.

Why do guys leave, can't get the girls, can't get the dancing. How do we get round this, LIE :eek: Well this is what I tell my crew anyay. If I hear a Taxi dancer or teacher has refused a dance, they are of no use to my business. Do I want all the taxi dancers to be babes? NO, I want them to be a cross section of society, but they have to home in on their social equals. Can I ever explain this, probably but I would not live to tell the results I guess. :tears:

Do my crew do this? No, I'm not going to tell them they are overweight and not very attractive so can they keep all the overweight and not very attractive people happy. :eek: (that was an imaginary example just in case I am quoted :whistle: )

The whole question is really complex. You have to break down every component of a night and then take that model and inter-act it with different people. eg, Nice venue, poor area, car parking, lighting in car park, town venue or out of town, decor of venue, music played, immediate impression when walk into a venue. Is it their grandmother/grandfather on the door or their daughter? Are they made to feel welcome, how long are they sitting down alone, how long are they not talking to someone for, do they feel out of place.

I have seen many many men leave coz the ladies were rude, ouch you are hurting my hand, you smell, can't you get this, hope you've got this move coz the last bloke was useless, not at the moment i need a rest but wait I will dance with him the guy next to you, I am washing my hair etc etc.

I would say that sex will get more men in but look at Salsa, their ratios are far worse and the girls are generally younger and wear less, so maybe that is not the answer.

Ok got it, stick a dart board up, a large TV screen and call it a pub :D

I would love to do a survey and make an offer to an forum people who are prepared to help.

Come to my venues, take five new people each as your projects, how many can you retain over 6 weeks. Hey I like this (think type think type think type)

OK free entry to forum members who want to take part to any and all CerocMetro venue for the six weeks. Prize of £100 to member who retains most newbies. £10 bonus for every newbie directly related to your five subjects.

Interested, PM me. This is the FIRST research of it's type, there may even be a video :whistle: What you are about to take on could change the shape of MJ forever. (dramatic drum roll)

Adam
ceroc@hotmail.com

[MartinHarper]

I do not like the idea of free admission for someone bring along a new member. It would deter me, I would not have a profit motive for promoting MJ, and I would not want to be perceived as having one.

Many people solve this problem by paying for their friend to get in, which is a nice gesture anyway.

[bigdjiver]

Many people solve this problem by paying for their friend to get in, which is a nice gesture anyway. I would feel obliged to explain that it was not costing me anything because I would be getting in free. To avoid all these minor relationship problems I would far rather tell my friend that they would get free admission if I introduced them, and I would prefer that to be venue policy.

[Rhythm King]

I think I've said before, I got into Ceroc as a result of an organisation which was having a summer ball. They booked 6 weeks of lessons, prior to the event and all the guests were asked along. About 30% kept it up afterwards and I did, until posted away from London. Sometime later, whilst still in the Forces I got back into Ceroc. I took a certain amount of mickey-taking from my colleagues, right up until the point where I took a table of Ceroc-ing guests to the Mess Summer Ball. Lo and behold, for the next week's visit to my local venue, my car was full of willing, but nervous volunteers. Once they saw the environment and also realised that they could learn Ceroc moves, rather like practising drill movements, they were hooked. I know at least 3 of them are still dancing 6 years on. Similarly, whilst on a 6 month course, we took it in turns to organise a social event each week. I took a minibus load of males and females to Bedford, for a night's dancing. We ended up going twice more by popular request, the only event to be repeated on the course.
I have been busking for various venues over the years. We have always been at shopping centres, or in high streets. These places are usually full of women shopping, or men going shopping with women (oh, and the Andy McGregors of this world, of course [ :wink: ]). Perhaps we should try to be more pro-active about where we busk. There are numerous companies and other organisations which hold social events during the year, perhaps they should be approached either to allow busking, perhaps in the form of a "gentle" cabaret (ie not too frightening!), or to try the pre-ball classes route.
I have tried to get people from my current office to come with me, but so far, only a couple of the women have been interested. I intend to bring in a couple of Ceroc and Beach Boogie videos to try and encourage the chaps, in due course. (I have one ally, but he does salsa, and doesn't admit to it in the office!)

[Little Em]

iv been in touch wiht the MOD and havea contact to try an get ceroc int o do promos an cabarets @ balls/events and stuff .......

do you think that would be worthwhile??

em x

[Rhythm King]

iv been in touch wiht the MOD and havea contact to try an get ceroc int o do promos an cabarets @ balls/events and stuff .......

do you think that would be worthwhile??

em x

Got to be worth a try, but if you do get into Sservice Messes, make sure you get to the Sergeants' Messes, as well as the Officers' Messes. Even the Junior Ranks have summer balls now, but not as formal as the above.
I like the idea of sports clubs too.
Hopefully see you at Hipsters tonight for a dance.

R-K x

[Gadget]

I would feel obliged to explain that it was not costing me anything because I would be getting in free. To avoid all these minor relationship problems I would far rather tell my friend that they would get free admission if I introduced them, and I would prefer that to be venue policy.
:yeah: I have taken a few people for their first night, and paid for them: I think that the above is a great idea.
I don't mind having to pay myself in: I know what to expect and I know that I will enjoy myself. The newbie however is just about to hand over cash for something they may not enjoy {:what::confused:} - sort of like a "free trial" or "test drive" concept.

[Little Em]

yes of course!!!! though dont know your face so please if you see me come an grab me!!! ill b wearing black trousers an red boots so come an introduce yourself!!

tonight is going to be wicked i can feel it in mydancign shoes already!!!

hehe x



Got to be worth a try, but if you do get into Sservice Messes, make sure you get to the Sergeants' Messes, as well as the Officers' Messes. Even the Junior Ranks have summer balls now, but not as formal as the above.
I like the idea of sports clubs too.
Hopefully see you at Hipsters tonight for a dance.

R-K x

[tsh]

I have been busking for various venues over the years. We have always been at shopping centres, or in high streets. These places are usually full of women shopping, or men going shopping with women (oh, and the Andy McGregors of this world, of course [ :wink: ]). Perhaps we should try to be more pro-active about where we busk. There are numerous companies and other organisations which hold social events during the year, perhaps they should be approached either to allow busking, perhaps in the form of a "gentle" cabaret (ie not too frightening!), or to try the pre-ball classes route.


I think that the best way of getting more people interested is by demonstration. Unless people can watch, they won't understand what it is that they're getting into. Even at this stage, I think it's worth trying to show that lots of complicated moves arn't the secret to being able to dance well - which I think is also something to emphasise in the leaning phase as well.

In terms of keeping us coming back - all it needs is for us to be sure that we'll get some good dances out of each evening. If that doesn't do it, we'd rather be somewhere else anyway!

The one thing that puts me off most is being at a venue where there are no beginners I can dance with (the easy option) and everyone else is doing really fancy stuff, such that I don't feel able to bore anyone by asking them to dance with me - and I know it'll be a bad dance because I'll be trying too hard to fit in some intermediate moves.

No good ideas on how the ladies can make this easier - most of the time they seem to be as encouraging as they can, and I'm not sure how it would go down if they started saying 'I really liked the sequence out of the beginners class, why not just do that' - even though it would probably work quite well!

Sean
p.s. Doing Intermediate1 on Sunday, so I'll see if that's a useful part of the retention process...

[Rhythm King]

The one thing that puts me off most is being at a venue where there are no beginners I can dance with (the easy option) and everyone else is doing really fancy stuff, such that I don't feel able to bore anyone by asking them to dance with me - and I know it'll be a bad dance because I'll be trying too hard to fit in some intermediate moves.



Don't feel you should only dance with beginner ladies. If you lead something correctly and they make a mistake you're the one that gets confused! The good Intermediate ladies don't bite and will follow what you lead, which does wonders for your self confidence. When I was starting out, on the whole the Intermediate ladies were very good at encouraging the new chaps. One or two could be a bit fierce in their criticism, but on reflection they probably meant well in the long run. If one took notice of what they were saying, instead of just getting embarrassed/confused, it did help. (Although there were two in particular that the beginner men used to call "The Dance Nazis" :blush: - Did I really just fess up to that in public? :eek: )
Stick with it, oh and do workshops too.

R-K

[Lynn]

Interesting thread. The salsa scene is probably similiar here to what has been described - almost 2 women for every man - but jive is more usually more balanced - we are organising a Blues workshop here (this Saturday) and had to work harder at filling the women's spaces. (Might be because it was myself and another women organising it and we know more men than women dancers!?) But of friends I have invited to either salsa or jive classes, its been more often the men who have stuck at it.

I agree that plenty of encouragement in the early stages is essential, possibly more so for men than women? One of the reasons I don't go to salsa much is the balance (that and the 'I'm too good to dance with you' attitude of some, and very smoky venues).

[Maxx]

Probably just re-hashing what's been said already but...

I don't really have an answer on how to get more men through the doors. But one big reason I reckon they don't come (or stay) is because they're scared. I don't want to be brutal, but most of this "macho" stuff is... well...crap!
It's easy to be macho when you're with a group, but being out there on the dance floor doing something you're not sure of, on your own, (well sort of) is a different ball game.

As most men will know it can be scary at first, (it was for me), but you (they) have to do it; hang in there, break through it - the rewards are well worth it, as all you other Forumites know.
(BTW funny that Martial Arts were mentioned earlier, is there a connection here?)

And No I'm not gay. For a very long time I was involved in a "Macho" type world workwise, still am a bit and most of the guys I know would be too frightened to try dancing. (Under the surface of course, outwardly there's all kinds of excuses).

I guess they just needs lots of encouragement in various forms.

But I think most of you women know this already.

I can't imagine ever giving up dancing now, but if they put in a big TV with sports on it then I shall have to think hard about continuing in a venue like that. No objection to a licenced bar though. Cheers. :cheers:

"To understand others is to have knowledge. To understand oneself is to be illuminated. To conquer others needs strength. To conquer oneself is harder still." The Tao Te Ching

[Little Em]

Got to be worth a try, but if you do get into Sservice Messes, make sure you get to the Sergeants' Messes, as well as the Officers' Messes. Even the Junior Ranks have summer balls now, but not as formal as the above.
I like the idea of sports clubs too.
Hopefully see you at Hipsters tonight for a dance.

R-K x



morning RK an everyone else on here!!!!

RK...any ideas on how i can get in touch with the services do you know anybody that i could speak too???? im VERY interested in looking into getting something like this off the ground for ceroc i think it would be brill for recruiting the guys and for promotions!!!!!

any hints ???

EM xx :D

[White Knuckle Ride]

just to go back to the original thread ....................

i think we need to find out where our guys hung out before they started dancing ...i.e they used to play rugby or go sailing????

guys what did you do.........then once i know i might go an do a few demos at these kinds of places!!!!

am i making sense??!?!! :what:

Sailing! As Master and Commander you will be most welcome to demo' on deck. C'mon over Andy, this should be good! :D

[Little Em]

Sailing! As Master and Commander you will be most welcome to demo' on deck. C'mon over Andy, this should be good! :D



OKEY DOKEY!!! not too sure....r u being serious?

if you are then we need to make a date? :wink: to organise a promo .......oooh i have ideas forming already!!! :clap:

[Yliander]

I do not like the idea of free admission for someone bring along a new member. It would deter me, I would not have a profit motive for promoting MJ, and I would not want to be perceived as having one. I believe you should try and bring your friends along as a favour to them.

When we have these sorts of promotions I generally invite a friend a long - but play the generous host and pay for them - then it doesn't cost them anything but time....

[Magic Hans]

Challenges that us men face, the first time? Summarised from previous posts :-

Learning to lead from day one.

Going alone, rather than in 2s, 3s or 4s, lacking the emotional support that women might have.

Somewhat fragile egos that can be damaged easily

Having to get it right first time, every time.

Being viewed by (I would say somewhat ignorant) non-dancers as pansies or worse!

No previous dance experience (tap, ballet, jaz)

-----------------
[Generalisation Warning!] [ .... oh, and heavy psycho-babble warning too !!!!!]

Culturally, our society tends to value mental/intellectual achievement over physical (except for the 1% of us who are top sportsmen), compared, say, with Cubans, South Americans, who, in common with all ancient cultures, have always danced (and sung) from infancy to adult hood.

We (British males in particular, for some reason) need to learn to be in our bodies more, and our heads less.

-

Blokes tend to be loners, and although might not go dancing with a specific end in mind, are helped by having small milestones .... and encouragement, both from lasses and blokes.

I'll tend to ask new blokes how it's going, that it /is/ tough and difficult, and that /I've/ been there as well. As an initial goal, I suggest they make their favourite four moves into a routine that is etched into their muscle memory as a chisel on stone.

-

External negative peer pressure and the perfect need, stem from our insecurities. I guess only encouragement can go any way to addressing this.

-

I believe that blokes (as girls) can generally either be of a leading or a following demeanor. [Control freaks, are one (perhap more extreme) example]

Natural 'lead' blokes will take more to (and out of) their first few sessions. Natural 'follows' will find them far more daunting, and will find more excuses for giving up. In my opinion, only some manner of lead/follow training/workshops (where everyone swaps lead/follow role) can make this easier.


... hope this a) made sense, and b) wasn't so heavy as to leave a hole in the floor!!

[drathzel]

Ian....... just to say that i didn't have the emotional support.... i went on my lonesome :clap:

[TheTramp]

Ian....... just to say that i didn't have the emotional support.... i went on my lonesome :clap:
When did you become a man then Danielle??

Trampy

[drathzel]

When did you become a man then Danielle??

Trampy


Ha Ha what you dont know wont hurt me... What i meant was that he siad women have emotional support and go in groups... i didn't :rofl:

[Ste]

Has anyone mentioned food could attract blokes?

Free food ( lots of it..... ...steak would be nice) and free beer....all you like ! :rofl:

[Dazzle]

It is unfortunate that with men, the very things we can offer to attract them, often bring along an undesirable element that can then make it all so difficult. :confused:

Women who bring along new guys get in free. Guys who come in before the start of the beginners class get in free. Advertise with singles clubs to attract men to be able to dance with lots of women, "Every woman loves a man who can dance!" :clap:

Then we end up with stalkers and those who expect women to be dropping at their feet. :mad:

The very nature of male development goes against dancing as being efeminite (Spelling not my strong point?) and so on, yet many of their male icons in the music industry dance as part of their acts. The male mind is a maze of dead ends and can take a lifetime to unravel. :sick: If women with partners cannot get them to come and dance with them, how can we attract single guys? More nationwide awareness is needed. After Top Gun the movie, the US Navy were flooded with Naval Fighter Pilot applications. We need a film, Top Drop! to have a similar effect maybe? :rofl:

[drathzel]

Has anyone mentioned food could attract blokes?

Free food ( lots of it..... ...steak would be nice) and free beer....all you like ! :rofl:


women? thats what made my friend come....to ceroc!!! :blush:

[bigdjiver]

One of the benefits of the way it is, that women usually seek out dance classes and then drag their men along, is that there is a natural selection in the process that discriminates against the less desirable men.

Targetting the loner types is recipe for getting more of them.

(Of course not all lonely men are of the less desirable variety.)

Tricky.

[drathzel]

Targetting the loner types is recipe for getting more of them.

Tricky.


ha ha thats right.. get them on their own and pick them off one by one!!! :rofl:

[Dazzle]

I do agree with you BigD! We recently had to change venue to somewhere that had no experience of MJ. The Manager was extremely pleased that the age and sex mix was so great and there was no trouble at all. :cheers:

We know we are all very well behaved and very pleasant people, but until others encounter us, they expect (in my own experience so far) a drunken rabble! Never seeen any trouble at a venue up here.

The less desirable type do turn up, but the nature of our venues and collective protective behaviour soon weeds them out and they tend to not come back :yeah: .

[mathmo]

Has anyone mentioned food could attract blokes?

Free food ( lots of it..... ...steak would be nice) and free beer....all you like ! :rofl:

I most probably would go along nearly every week if there was free food!!

(yes, I'm male. If it isn't obvious from my previous statement!)

Guess I might be one of those new people mentioned who you would try to retain. I somehow found myself going along to my first ever lesson in Ceroc on Monday, and I think I'll probably be finding myself going along to it again if I finish from work earlier enough.

Also I found this thread a little strange about there being a shortage of guys, because when I went there were about 4 or so guys too many. But then on the other hand a sample size of one is far too small to judge anything upon!

[bigdjiver]

...
Also I found this thread a little strange about there being a shortage of guys, because when I went there were about 4 or so guys too many. But then on the other hand a sample size of one is far too small to judge anything upon! I assume that you are talking about the beginners lesson, and 4 guys moving on. For interest - were some of the "guys" in fact gals, dancing as men? Each lady that leads means there are two more women there (assuming no men are following).
It is not unknow to have 4 guys locally to have 4 "guys" moving on during the beginner lesson, but 10 or more ladies moving on during the intermediate.

[drathzel]

Also I found this thread a little strange about there being a shortage of guys, because when I went there were about 4 or so guys too many. But then on the other hand a sample size of one is far too small to judge anything upon!


hi and welcome to the forum.....

where is it that you dance? Some places do have a lot more men and some have a severe shortage!!!! Its just the luck of the draw! :tears:

[drathzel]

I assume that you are talking about the beginners lesson, and 4 guys moving on. For interest - were some of the "guys" in fact gals, dancing as men? Each lady that leads means there are two more women there (assuming no men are following).
It is not unknow to have 4 guys locally to have 4 "guys" moving on during the beginner lesson, but 10 or more ladies moving on during the intermediate.
:yeah:

[mathmo]

I assume that you are talking about the beginners lesson, and 4 guys moving on. For interest - were some of the "guys" in fact gals, dancing as men? Each lady that leads means there are two more women there (assuming no men are following).
It is not unknow to have 4 guys locally to have 4 "guys" moving on during the beginner lesson, but 10 or more ladies moving on during the intermediate.Ah yes, I was refering to a beginners lesson. What then was being talked about before?

All of the "guys" were guys there, in fact I wonder why wouldn't that be the case? It does seem a little odd to me, but then I do know next to nothing about this anyway.


hi and welcome to the forum.....Thanks. :D


where is it that you dance? Some places do have a lot more men and some have a severe shortage!!!! Its just the luck of the draw! :tears:Well having only been there once I can't remember the name, but it is some place in central Auckland(which is in New Zealand, which is in Australasia, which is in the Southern Hemisphere, which is on earth, which is in the solar systen, which is in the milkyway, which is in....).

Shouldn't those places that have too many men look at those which have a severe shortage so as to see what can be taken from the other to balance it up(and visa versa)?

[bigdjiver]

Ah yes, I was refering to a beginners lesson. What then was being talked about before?

All of the "guys" were guys there, in fact I wonder why wouldn't that be the case? It does seem a little odd to me, but then I do know next to nothing about this anyway... A lot of ladies like to lead. Taxi Dancers should preferably be able to dance either as leaders or followers, and many of the ladies do the class as leaders.

[Sarah]

On many occasions I have more men than ladies at my four venues and the answer is quite simple -Be Nice To Them- :flower:

[stewart38]

On many occasions I have more men than ladies at my four venues and the answer is quite simple -Be Nice To Them- :flower:

Some venues sometimes have more men. There are not always more women
I think a happy ratio would be 40% men 60% women :)

[baldrick]

On many occasions I have more men than ladies at my four venues and the answer is quite simple -Be Nice To Them- :flower:
Worked on me. The main thing that kept me coming back was the "its ok we don't mind, your a beginner" as I struggled to keep to together leading all 4 moves that I knew. Thank Ladies. :D

[drathzel]

Worked on me. The main thing that kept me coming back was the "its ok we don't mind, your a beginner" as I struggled to keep to together leading all 4 moves that I knew. Thank Ladies. :D


They were only nice cuz they were trying to keep you. The had an ulterior motive! :rofl:

[baldrick]

They were only nice cuz they were trying to keep you. The had an ulterior motive! :rofl:
And there's me thought it was for my charm and good looks :waycool:

[drathzel]

And there's me thought it was for my charm and good looks :waycool:


Of course it was. Are you going on tues? In case i have asked you before, i am sorry. I have mental block from being home. I am not allowed to think around my parents :tears:

[baldrick]

Of course it was. Are you going on tues? In case i have asked you before, i am sorry. I have mental block from being home. I am not allowed to think around my parents :tears:
Yep, see you tomorrow, and possably Wed. as well. See how the work goes. :D

[drathzel]

Yep, see you tomorrow, and possably Wed. as well. See how the work goes. :D

Oh, oh you have to come on wednesday! Its so much fun! Or maybe thats just because i like to dance two nigths a week! :o

[Little Monkey]

Finally, getting new men in the door seems to be a major problem and one good suggestion I heard was a 'free' night for ladies who bring a new man; and I hope that won't be misconstrued by some![/QUOTE]

:yeah:

I've suggested the same thing in the past.... Or what about free / half price entry that night if you introduce a new man to ceroc, no matter if you're a man or woman? Maybe this would encourage guys to bring a mate along??

Little Monkey

[bigdjiver]

How about a free entry for each dance organisation that a new guy can prove he is, or has been a member of?

[Whitebeard]

How about just sticking to the Status Quo.

Why change a very successful, from the less desirable man's point of view, formula ?

'Less desirable' - it hurts.

[Andy McGregor]

How about just sticking to the Status Quo.

Why change a very successful, from the less desirable man's point of view, formula ?

'Less desirable' - it hurts.

This came home to me yesterday. I went to the Southampton Boat Show. Before going I did a Google search and found a MJ venue about a mile away. It was MoJive and in a TA centre. The night was good, not very busy as it was a newish night but the natives were friendly - mostly :tears: Except one attractive young woman 'A' who, when asked for a dance, said she was taking a rest: so I asked someone else 'B'. Within a few seconds there was attractive young woman A dancing with MIB spiky haired young man who-knows-all-the-moves-but-dances-on-the-off-beat. I get the message that I'm 'less desirable' :tears:

I did go in beige trousers and a white polo shirt, no b&w shoes, etc. Maybe that was my downfall? Briefly it crossed my mind to let girl A know I'd noticed. But why make enemies?

[Whitebeard]

..... beige trousers .....
Join the club. What is it about those ??

Don't travel myself but guess it must be a bit scary dropping into an unknown venue. Trust you got some good dances.

[drathzel]

Join the club. What is it about those ??

Don't travel myself but guess it must be a bit scary dropping into an unknown venue. Trust you got some good dances.

Glasgow is very unscary! You should come and visit us! Are you going to BFG?

[Whitebeard]

Glasgow is very unscary! You should come and visit us! Are you going to BFG?
Not going anywhere at present unfortunately. Just praying for these nerve pains to go away. Why else would I be up at this time of night ??

Anyway, I'd probably have more trouble with Glaswegian than German !!

[drathzel]

Not going anywhere at present unfortunately. Just praying for these nerve pains to go away. Why else would I be up at this time of night ??

Anyway, I'd probably have more trouble with Glaswegian than German !!


I am up because i am still on a high from my class! Arrived in Glasgow (after weekend away) at 8:05(time plane arrived) and managed to get home and then to class by 8:35 (trust me i didn't thin my car did those kind of speeds). I think thats possible why i am still buzzing! Although if anyone else has any other ideas just let me know..he he!

I also used to suffer insomnia so i can completely sympathise with you! :hug:

[Whitebeard]

I am up because i am still on a high from my class! Arrived in Glasgow (after weekend away) at 8:05(time plane arrived) and managed to get home and then to class by 8:35 (trust me i didn't thin my car did those kind of speeds). I think thats possible why i am still buzzing!
You youngsters make my head reel.

Going to try for sleep again ..... guten nacht und grosse huggen !!!!

[Andy McGregor]

Don't travel myself but guess it must be a bit scary dropping into an unknown venue. Trust you got some good dances.

I must admit I find a new venue exciting. It never crosses my mind to be scared at all. This was the first venue I've been to for years where I knew absolutely nobody. And, I think, nobody knew me. It was great, no pressure, and some nice dances.

[drathzel]

You youngsters make my head reel.

Going to try for sleep again ..... guten nacht und grosse huggen !!!!


Yeah well for a while i didn't do any of these youthful things but now i am!! Guten Morgen mein freund. Wie gehts sie?


I must admit I find a new venue exciting. It never crosses my mind to be scared at all. This was the first venue I've been to for years where I knew absolutely nobody. And, I think, nobody knew me. It was great, no pressure, and some nice dances.

I started by myself and would be quite happy to go to different places by myself. Howeve i think there is a certain ammount of garenteed fun when you go with a group. At least that way you get aa dance and you have some one to talk to! :flower:

[baldrick]

I must admit I find a new venue exciting. It never crosses my mind to be scared at all. This was the first venue I've been to for years where I knew absolutely nobody. And, I think, nobody knew me. It was great, no pressure, and some nice dances.
I'm always nervous (and excited) when trying a new venue/group. I feel a bit like I'm being tried out by some partners. 'lets see if he can do it', but that probably says more about me than them. Never liked being measured up or tested. Just do stuff for fun, only ever trying to better myself not anybody else.

[drathzel]

I'm always nervous (and excited) when trying a new venue/group. I feel a bit like I'm being tried out by some partners. 'lets see if he can do it', but that probably says more about me than them. Never liked being measured up or tested. Just do stuff for fun, only ever trying to better myself not anybody else.


Its aso harder for men. (ok ladies dont hurt me) Where women just have to follow men have to lead and if you go to a new place and end up dancing with a beginner you may scare her. Where as ladies if you dance with a beginner male you tend to just do the moves that he knows! Ok what happened to the man hater drathzel. Could someone please find her and bring her back. please!!! :hug:

[Gadget]

I'm always nervous (and excited) when trying a new venue/group. I feel a bit like I'm being tried out by some partners. 'lets see if he can do it', but that probably says more about me than them. Never liked being measured up or tested. Just do stuff for fun, only ever trying to better myself not anybody else.
:rofl: You think that's bad - the number of times I get comments like "so you're Gadget!" or "we were just talking about you"... I mean, what reputation am I expected to live up to? Are they going to be analysing how I dance to compare it with something else?... the pressure! :swoon: {:wink::D}

I can probably go to any venue in Scotland and recognise a handfull of dancers - such a warm feeling of "community" and welcoming. If I were one to be nervous of going to new places on my own, this would quieten my nerves: When you start going dancing, you do not just enter your local venue - you enter one small part of a country-wide club. :clap:

[drathzel]

:rofl: You think that's bad - the number of times I get comments like "so you're Gadget!" or "we were just talking about you"... I mean, what reputation am I expected to live up to? Are they going to be analysing how I dance to compare it with something else?... the pressure! :swoon: {:wink::D}

I can probably go to any venue in Scotland and recognise a handfull of dancers - such a warm feeling of "community" and welcoming. If I were one to be nervous of going to new places on my own, this would quieten my nerves: When you start going dancing, you do not just enter your local venue - you enter one small part of a country-wide club. :clap:

So i take it you introduce yourself as gadget and not as your actual name. It is nice to go to different places, although as yet i have not ventured outside of glasgow, but i intend to, but even just going to a different class you are still accepted really quickly and everyone will dance with you..well of you ask!

[baldrick]

:rofl: You think that's bad - the number of times I get comments like "so you're Gadget!" or "we were just talking about you"... I mean, what reputation am I expected to live up to? Are they going to be analysing how I dance to compare it with something else?... the pressure! :swoon: {:wink::D}

Fun isn't it, and I wondered why people had different names here and in reality. :confused:
On the other hand rewriting peoples expectations is also fun.

[Gadget]

erm... that is my name!

[drathzel]

Fun isn't it, and I wondered why people had different names here and in reality. :confused:
On the other hand rewriting peoples expectations is also fun.


Isn't it just. When i started ceroc the general feeling that i was a bit normal! How wrong is that! :D

[Andy McGregor]

I mean, what reputation am I expected to live up to? Are they going to be analysing how I dance to compare it with something else?... the pressure! :swoon: {:wink::D}

If Gadget dances like he spells I'm certain he'd stand out on the dance floor :devil:

[Bangers & Mash]

Had a bit of a brainwave on this one - based loosely on experience.

Why don't some of you girls take the initiative by hitting a pub close to the dance venue beforehand and lure some poor unsuspecting guys along for the dance.

I reckon as an experiment it would be worth it - hell, even drag some of the ceroc guys along as well (if you really think you need protecting).

Get a couple of girls; select the guys you want to take back for dancing and then simply walk up to them (be they guys on their own, with friends, or even with girlfriends) and hit them with a line :-

"You look like you could be a good dancer. Come on, the dance starts in 10 minutes."

"Hey. How would you like to spend the rest of the evening surrounded by good looking girls like us. Come on then, this way..."

You'd be amazed how vulnerable us men can be. I started ceroc originally in London, when my friends sister picked me up one evening and said "come on, we're dancing" - I didn't have a chance.

[drathzel]

Had a bit of a brainwave on this one - based loosely on experience.

Why don't some of you girls take the initiative by hitting a pub close to the dance venue beforehand and lure some poor unsuspecting guys along for the dance.

I reckon as an experiment it would be worth it - hell, even drag some of the ceroc guys along as well (if you really think you need protecting).

Get a couple of girls; select the guys you want to take back for dancing and then simply walk up to them (be they guys on their own, with friends, or even with girlfriends) and hit them with a line :-

"You look like you could be a good dancer. Come on, the dance starts in 10 minutes."

"Hey. How would you like to spend the rest of the evening surrounded by good looking girls like us. Come on then, this way..."

You'd be amazed how vulnerable us men can be. I started ceroc originally in London, when my friends sister picked me up one evening and said "come on, we're dancing" - I didn't have a chance.

I actually think thats a good idea. In jumpin jax and a tues night many people ome in at then end and look interested i think this would be a good time to nab them for the next week too! (possibly, however are mens brain capable of holding info for more that one day?)

[Bangers & Mash]

I actually think thats a good idea. In jumpin jax and a tues night many people ome in at then end and look interested i think this would be a good time to nab them for the next week too! (possibly, however are mens brain capable of holding info for more that one day?)

That's why you girls need to keep us interested. You show me a gorgeous girl on the dance floor and I'll show you ten men that want to learn to dance.

Why not also hit the clubs, go as a ceroc group, wait till loads of people are watching and then go and give the guys leaflets about ceroc.

Don't forget to flirt though. They need to be enticed. Better yet, arrange for a group of girls to meet these guys in the pub beforehand.

[baldrick]

You show me a gorgeous girl on the dance floor and I'll show you ten men that want to learn to dance.
Sorry but I don't like this approch. What you'll get is nine guys who want to dance just long enough to get the girl and then leave. Yes we are this shallow. A dance floor of guys who are more intent on chatting up the dancers than listening to the lesson does not help anyone. They lead badly and don't care. their partners don't get the moves. Bad habits are formed. We all suffer. I know the dancing is for fun but those involed need to have some desire to dance, not just the normal male desire.
There thats that off my chest. :)

[drathzel]

Sorry but I don't like this approch. What you'll get is nine guys who want to dance just long enough to get the girl and then leave. Yes we are this shallow. A dance floor of guys who are more intent on chatting up the dancers than listening to the lesson does not help anyone. They lead badly and don't care. their partners don't get the moves. Bad habits are formed. We all suffer. I know the dancing is for fun but those involed need to have some desire to dance, not just the normal male desire.
There thats that off my chest. :)


Good point. I do just think that although you may get some guys who are only there for the girls you'll also get ones that may find that they want to be there for the dancing! :hug:

[Bangers & Mash]

Sorry but I don't like this approch. What you'll get is nine guys who want to dance just long enough to get the girl and then leave. Yes we are this shallow. A dance floor of guys who are more intent on chatting up the dancers than listening to the lesson does not help anyone. They lead badly and don't care. their partners don't get the moves. Bad habits are formed. We all suffer. I know the dancing is for fun but those involed need to have some desire to dance, not just the normal male desire.
There thats that off my chest. :)

I can see where you are coming from, but when I started CEROC in 1990 I started for all the wrong reasons. I stayed for all the right reasons.

When I started again in Edinburgh this year I started again because I enjoyed dancing. The social life that has evolved as a result is a real bonus.

As for attracting more men. I have caused some hilarity in the male dominated environment in which I work with my exploits. During the fringe, one of the guys came along to see Jive Aces in the Spiegeltent and watched with awe some of the dancing.

When the girls worked on him to start coming to CEROC he had a real moment of weakness and if there had been a class afterwards, or even if the girls had fetched him mob-handed for the next class I am pretty certain he would have come along and all would have enjoyed it - but unfortunately that was not the case.

On a lighter note. In 1990 - I used to power build in Slough 3 nights a week and go dancing straight from the gym. Imagine my surprise one day when I bumped into 3 of the larger body builders at the Windsor ceroc. When I asked them what they were doing there - they replied "Girlfriends made us come."

When I saw them there on their own a few weeks later and posed the same question - their response was "girlfriends couldn't make it!"

[MartinHarper]

Elsewhere, Ash referred to some guy who had joined the intermediate class without ever doing a freestyle dance. I wonder if this might be a factor. Kudos to Ash for being the first person to get him dancing freestyle, but it really shouldn't have taken that long.

I just think it's kinda incredible that some guy got through to the intermediate class (six weeks? 12 weeks?) without a single girl - not one - taking the initiative and asking him for a dance. Apparently they were all entirely happy to let him sit unasked until he got bored and left, each night he came. Either happy with that - or just blissfully unaware of who the newcomers are at their venue and how they might be feeling. Also, what were the taxi dancers?

Ok, so I don't know the details, and I'm sure there are extenuating circumstances. Still, if that had happened at my local MJ joint, I'd be embarassed.