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Daisy Chain
30th-July-2004, 10:05 PM
"Where else can I go where there's more men in the lesson?" might be closer to it.



Andy, your comment reminded me why I stopped going to my local Ceroc venue. Several months ago, they introduced a novel way of moving the ladies around. Instead of having us lined up as wallflowers and moving 15+ each time, we were scattered throughout the room. The ladies moved round 1 man each time. So, whenever you reached a point where a spare lady had started the lesson, you had to stand out and wait for the next rotation in the middle of the room with 150 people dancing around you.

This made me feel a right lemon - it was like waiting to be picked for a team in PE at school.

Also, I felt that I had been active for much less of the lesson than on a usual rotate 15+ women at a time night and I quietly seethed about not getting my money's worth. There were also several awkward moments when it was my turn to enter the fray again but the lady who was supposed to drop out for me, didn't notice and it was embarrassing having to butt in. I did mention my opinion to the organiser at a subsequent freestyle but the organiser firmly believes that it is a fairer and superior method of rotation.

I never went back.

Daisy Chain
(A Happy Little Wallflower )

MartinHarper
30th-July-2004, 10:38 PM
Instead of having us lined up as wallflowers and moving 15+ each time, we were scattered throughout the room.

That's how it works at my non-Ceroc locals. The upside is speed - rotating a single place is a lot quicker and easier than rotating fifteen, so you spend more time learning and less time rotating. The downside is that it's an inefficient use of space to have the people who are waiting taking up space on the floor.

Emma
30th-July-2004, 10:44 PM
Instead of having us lined up as wallflowers and moving 15+ each time, we were scattered throughout the room. The ladies moved round 1 man each time. So, whenever you reached a point where a spare lady had started the lesson, you had to stand out and wait for the next rotation in the middle of the room with 150 people dancing around you.

This made me feel a right lemon - it was like waiting to be picked for a team in PE at school.
Thata's really interesting Daisy, as I personally prefer that method of rotation, though I agree it can be a bit disconcerting when you stand in the middle of everyone dancing! (I usually dance as well, just kinda...alone ;) ) I think it does work best though when there is plenty of space :) To me it feels as though I am getting more practise, not less. I am far more likely to drop out of a class beause there are 20+ women on than for any other reason.

DavidY
30th-July-2004, 11:21 PM
Instead of having us lined up as wallflowers and moving 15+ each time, we were scattered throughout the room. The ladies moved round 1 man each time. So, whenever you reached a point where a spare lady had started the lesson, you had to stand out and wait for the next rotation in the middle of the room with 150 people dancing around you.

This made me feel a right lemon - it was like waiting to be picked for a team in PE at school.

Also, I felt that I had been active for much less of the lesson than on a usual rotate 15+ women at a time night and I quietly seethed about not getting my money's worth.There are the same number of men and women whichever method of rotation is used, so on average people should get the same number of dances.

With the "scatter and move one on" method, if the "scattering" isn't scattered enough, you can get the situation where there are lots of spare folk in a given row, and you're faced with the daunting prospect of working slowly along a long row, one dance on, one dance off. But if you're in a "good" row you can dance nearly every dance. It's quicker to move on and not held up if someone tries to spend extra time helping their partner with a move when everyone else is moving. However if you're near the back of the room, where you can't see well, both partners have been stuck thereabouts all night and neither can help each other with knowledge gleaned from being near the front (or dancing with someone there).

So scattering potentially gives you more teaching & practicing time (because less time is spent moving on), but is much more variable if there's an uneven scatter.

With the "rotate lots at once" method you know where you are - you know you'll have a few dances as you work along the row, then be off for one rotation, then you're back on again. But it can take longer to move everyone round.

Personally when men are rotating, I like rotating lots of people at once because you know you'll get at least a few dances before you're off again. I also think it's more fun as you don't know who you're going to get to dance with next!

under par
31st-July-2004, 12:32 AM
That's how it works at my non-Ceroc locals. The upside is speed - rotating a single place is a lot quicker and easier than rotating fifteen, so you spend more time learning and less time rotating. The downside is that it's an inefficient use of space to have the people who are waiting taking up space on the floor.


The scatter version I have seen used at smaller classes means far les time counting. 1...2....3...4...5...6...7...8...9...as people pass by got to be better! :yeah:

spindr
31st-July-2004, 01:55 AM
Personally, I rather like the scatter approach taken at my local salsa venue -- swapping partners becomes a sort of rueda -- it can feel a bit like a conveyor belt (pass current lady to man on left, turn back collect new lady from man on right) but it's fun and keeps overall swapping time very short.

That said, I think the "queue" approach works best if people are likely to turn up halfway through -- otherwise they'll either unbalance the scatter -- or even try and start a "queue" on their own.

SpinDr.

Dancing Girlie
31st-July-2004, 05:22 AM
Hi Daisy Chain (I'm new to the forum) :nice:

At the venue I have attended for years, the normal method of rotation is used, which works fine. However when there has been "a lot" of extra women, I'm sure we've been "scattered" at the end of each row so that the maximum amount of dance space is allowed and, hopefully, nobody feels awkward. This would also allow for "late attenders" to join at the other end of each row if necessary - only a thought! Perhaps this way would be something to consider at your venue? :flower:

Daisy Chain
31st-July-2004, 09:50 AM
I like rotating lots of people at once because you know you'll get at least a few dances before you're off again. I also think it's more fun as you don't know who you're going to get to dance with next!

I agree with you on this point, it seems to increase a girl's chances of getting a lovely man as opposed to a less lovely man .............or at least it gives me more hope of a lovely one. It's awful when rotating 1 at a time to see 5 or 6 of your least favourite men all in a row and knowing that you're going to have to dance with every one of them and not ever get a far as the line of consecutive toyboys in the next row before the end of the lesson. :sad: Mind you, I guess it's the same for the line of men when they see me trawling the rows amongst the Babes :(

Daisy

Andy McGregor
31st-July-2004, 10:57 AM
I think that, in theory, the scatter method works best - you only move on one person so it's quicker and you get to dance with everyone. But, from my observation, it doesn't work well because, in a busy class it doesn't seem to work - it seems like people get mixed up and don't move on or miss people. And, as Daisy Chain said, you end up standing in a crowd of dancers like a wallflower in a bed of daisies.

I've seen the scatter method work well when the dancers are standing in a circle around a central teaching couple. The waiting dancers can step back from the circle when people are actually dancing and then step back in for the rotation. But, the circle takes up much more space so doesn't work when it's crowded.

Jive Brummie
31st-July-2004, 01:25 PM
I've only witnessed this type of rotation once and it was at the Land Rover social club in Birmingham. Personally i thought the stand in between two couples thing was an absolute disaster..

Good for learning...in theory. However, more people on the floor at one time meant more teaching required as it seemed not everyone picked up the 'teach' as they were too busy talking to their neighbour...standing right next to them. As a side effect of all the chatter, the teacher had then, in effect, lost control of the class, as they were all too interested in bunnying on with their pals than learning how to do the move.

Having said all that, i think this method was required at this venue as it was hugely popular and would otherwise have meant ladies waiting to rotate for ages....

Don't like this method of rotation but then again, maybe i've not seen it used to it's best advantage.

james x x

p.s. the old '6 of one and half-a-dozen of another' springs to mind.

Daisy Chain
31st-July-2004, 04:18 PM
............in a bed of daisies.




:eek: I'm not THAT sort of flower :innocent:

Andy McGregor
31st-July-2004, 04:23 PM
:eek: I'm not THAT sort of flower :innocent:

No, the whole 'chain' thing leads us to a different flower bed altogether :wink:

Daisy Chain
31st-July-2004, 04:26 PM
No, the whole 'chain' thing leads us to a different flower bed altogether :wink:

Not too sure what you mean, but it might be best if we don't go there.... :confused:

Daisy

Andy McGregor
31st-July-2004, 06:06 PM
Not too sure what you mean, but it might be best if we don't go there.... :confused:

Daisy

I've now graduated to silk scarves, those nasty chains leave marks on my wrists - and the woodwork :devil:

bigdjiver
31st-July-2004, 06:38 PM
The mini-class method seems to work OK when I have seen it used.

Divide class into and even number of rows. Let the movers on pick which two rows they fancy. The movers on move down one row, back up the other to the waiting area.

If there are six rows then you are moving on 6 instead of 18

Lory
1st-August-2004, 04:26 PM
I was introduced to this method at Camber in May and IMO it was the ONLY method that would have worked in this highly unusual situation, there were about 100 men and 200 women maybe even slightly more :what: in the introduction to Lindyhop class. It was a nightmare! It was just so crowded that I have to admit I gave up, nothing to do with the teaching I just got fed up with being 'in the way' :sad: but I really can't see how the normal method would have worked either! :confused:

MartinHarper
1st-August-2004, 04:31 PM
If jive is a social event, I can't help feeling that if more people are chatting in a scatter style, that's a good thing. :) But is that true? I always assumed that the wallflower queue was tailor made for a quick gossip between dances...

Emma
1st-August-2004, 04:56 PM
I was introduced to this method at Camber in May and IMO it was the ONLY method that would have worked in this highly unusual situation, there were about 100 men and 200 women maybe even slightly more :what: in the introduction to Lindyhop class. It was a nightmare! It was just so crowded that I have to admit I gave up, nothing to do with the teaching I just got fed up with being 'in the way' :sad: but I really can't see how the normal method would have worked either! :confused:Ha ha I was in that class too! It was funny cos you had to kindof go behind the dancers as they moved or you got really in the way..but it would have been impossible to learn anything at all if we'd been being rotated. I found the in between bits a good opportunity to practise the steps anyhow.

I felt pretty pleased with myself for not dropping out! :)

Simon r
2nd-August-2004, 07:06 AM
Tried this a couple of times works great for a while, and seems to take an age to set up, then you get ladies arriving late who immediatly que up on the right ...
bugger...
so next rotation try to slot them in more time taken ...
Then more late arrivals Bugger....
the whole idea seemed to take up more of my time than doing the class.
Did not work for me... :tears:

Lounge Lizard
2nd-August-2004, 08:38 AM
I have been teaching the scatter method at Hastings beginners class for two years, but we teach in a circle with ladies rotating clockwise and my demonstrator moves around the circle so i get to dance with each beginner during the class, jjust have to make sure there is a maximum of 1 lady between each couple.
as this takes up a lot of space it is not suitable for the intyermediate,
I have tried the scatter method in line up's at camber....DISASTER

At major events like Camber I find that moving the ladies up a single row works, they then re-join at the front and divide the number of ladies between the rows (4 rows, 20 ladies + move up 5 in each row)
Overall I think the standard totation method is best - have seen one Leroc teacher with 20 ladies over in the line up and only moving 5 at a time - this was a disaster.
peter

under par
2nd-August-2004, 08:44 AM
I have been teaching the scatter method at Hastings beginners class for two years, but we teach in a circle with ladies rotating clockwise and my demonstrator moves around the circle so i get to dance with each beginner during the class, jjust have to make sure there is a maximum of 1 lady between each couple.
as this takes up a lot of space it is not suitable for the intyermediate,
I have tried the scatter method in line up's at camber....DISASTER

At major events like Camber I find that moving the ladies up a single row works, they then re-join at the front and divide the number of ladies between the rows (4 rows, 20 ladies + move up 5 in each row)
Overall I think the standard totation method is best - have seen one Leroc teacher with 20 ladies over in the line up and only moving 5 at a time - this was a disaster.
peter

Rotation appears to be best for busy classes with lots of numbers and little space.

Small classes can and do work quite well with the scatter or circle method which I have seen at numerous smaller venues.

stewart38
2nd-August-2004, 09:17 AM
There are the same number of men and women whichever method of rotation is used, so on average people should get the same number of dances.

With the "scatter and move one on" method, if the "scattering" isn't scattered enough, you can get the situation where there are lots of spare folk in a given row, and you're faced with the daunting prospect of working slowly along a long row, one dance on, one dance off. But if you're in a "good" row you can dance nearly every dance. It's quicker to move on and not held up if someone tries to spend extra time helping their partner with a move when everyone else is moving. However if you're near the back of the room, where you can't see well, both partners have been stuck thereabouts all night and neither can help each other with knowledge gleaned from being near the front (or dancing with someone there).

So scattering potentially gives you more teaching & practicing time (because less time is spent moving on), but is much more variable if there's an uneven scatter.

With the "rotate lots at once" method you know where you are - you know you'll have a few dances as you work along the row, then be off for one rotation, then you're back on again. But it can take longer to move everyone round.

Personally when men are rotating, I like rotating lots of people at once because you know you'll get at least a few dances before you're off again. I also think it's more fun as you don't know who you're going to get to dance with next!

The problem with the scatter method is it only works if no new people turn up. The more 'extra people' you have full rotation works best. Hey its just a opinion, there must be some form of maths formula for this ?

MartinHarper
2nd-August-2004, 10:19 AM
The scatter method only works if no new people turn up

That's not been my experience in smaller groups - if there are excess men, then late arriving women snap them up, and late arriving men just insert themselves in a gap between two pairs. Might be different in large groups, though.

Daisy Chain
2nd-August-2004, 12:06 PM
there are excess men,


:eek: WHERE? I'm on my way.............

Petal
2nd-August-2004, 01:19 PM
Instead of having us lined up as wallflowers and moving 15+ each time, we were scattered throughout the room. The ladies moved round 1 man each time. So, whenever you reached a point where a spare lady had started the lesson, you had to stand out and wait for the next rotation in the middle of the room .
I did mention my opinion to the organiser at a subsequent freestyle but the organiser firmly believes that it is a fairer and superior method of rotation.

I never went back.

Daisy Chain
(A Happy Little Wallflower )

This style of rotation was done once at dundee recently and it confused everyone and made the ladies feel even more awkward than they do sitting waiting at the side of the dance floor.

Rhythm King
2nd-August-2004, 04:49 PM
That's not been my experience in smaller groups - if there are excess men, then late arriving women snap them up, and late arriving men just insert themselves in a gap between two pairs. Might be different in large groups, though.

Yes, but that's only if more of the opposite gender turn up. If more of the same arrive, the scatter system becomes somewhat unfair, as people invariably join in wherever they are going to get on next, rather than at the back of the wall flower queue. Amir Giles said something very interesting at Beach Boogie last week. He is of the opinion that the people who learn moves faster are the ones who practise the move on their own, whilst waiting in the queue, as it gets into their muscle memory faster. It makes for a quiter class too, as the teacher isn't competing to be heard over people talking.

MartinHarper
2nd-August-2004, 05:42 PM
If there are an excess of men, then late arriving men just insert themselves in a gap between two pairs. They wait out the current bit of dancing, and get a dance next time the class rotates. With a wallflower queue, late arriving men join the end of the queue, wait out the current bit of dancing, and get a dance the next time the class rotates. It's unclear to me how either of these systems can be considered more fair than the other.

Practicing is good, of course - but one can practice the moves in both systems - provided there's space! I've happilly danced with air, or practiced spins, (or drunk some water :)) when I'm in a gap in the scatter method, and some women do the same. It seems to me the critical factor for practicing on your own is sufficient space to do so - I'm afraid I just don't see how the rotation system makes a difference.

Sheepman
3rd-August-2004, 11:21 AM
I think the different methods work best in different situations. I get the impression that the majority of teachers prefer to work with a circle, though space rarely permits this. If you're in a circle, then the scatter method is the only one to use.

For the average weekly class, with people arriving late, and up to 10 spare men/women then the single queue is what people are used to, and it generally works well. (Unless there are more than 3 men moving on, because they are hopeless at counting, the number of times I've been bumped out of a class due to bad counting :angry: But I've just had a thought, maybe it's the women, seeing some guy coming round that they definitely don't want to dance with, even for a few seconds, do they slip out of the lesson and cause chaos? Has anyone ever done this?)

For the mega classes (Camber) or other places where there may be huge numbers of extra women (men if it's a blues class :wink: ) then break them up and put them at the end of the rows. This one does have the disadvantage that you only get to dance with 1/2, a 1/4, or whatever, of the class.

Greg

under par
3rd-August-2004, 11:46 AM
For the mega classes (Camber) or other places where there may be huge numbers of extra women (men if it's a blues class :wink: ) then break them up and put them at the end of the rows. This one does have the disadvantage that you only get to dance with 1/2, a 1/4, or whatever, of the class.

Greg

But the counter argument is that it is an advantage for the other half of the class who do not have to dance with me! :rofl:

Daisy Chain
3rd-August-2004, 12:02 PM
: But I've just had a thought, maybe it's the women, seeing some guy coming round that they definitely don't want to dance with, even for a few seconds, do they slip out of the lesson and cause chaos? Has anyone ever done this?)




:blush:


Ahem, told you I was fussy...

Lory
3rd-August-2004, 12:03 PM
For the mega classes (Camber) or other places where there may be huge numbers of extra women (men if it's a blues class :wink: ) then break them up and put them at the end of the rows. This one does have the disadvantage that you only get to dance with 1/2, a 1/4, or whatever, of the class.

Greg
Hey, I've got this one sussed! :D Shhhh! Just join another row, when you've had enough of the one your in! :wink:

Peter
3rd-August-2004, 12:09 PM
Amir Giles said something very interesting at Beach Boogie last week. He is of the opinion that the people who learn moves faster are the ones who practise the move on their own, whilst waiting in the queue, as it gets into their muscle memory faster.

A good reason for rotating, rather than fixed partners ... oops .. wrong thread!

RobC
3rd-August-2004, 07:28 PM
Well I've taught using both methods. The scatter method definitely saves time when you have a large number of people to move on, but as previously mentioned, only works if you have the space to have everyone on the dancefloor at the same time. When teaching in a circle, it's the only choice IMHO, but it has worked just as well for me in lines. When everyone knows whats going on (we regularly used to teach our Improvers class with 50-60 people + up to 15 spare in a circle using the scatter method) even the late comers neatly slot themselves into a suitable gap between partners.

Emma
3rd-August-2004, 10:04 PM
When everyone knows whats going on This seems key to the scatter method..I guess it's easier for people to turn up late as 'newbies' and realise that there's a queue to be joined, scatter method would need constand explanation for those new to it (perhaps)....

MartinHarper
4th-August-2004, 12:07 AM
I guess it's easier for people to turn up late as 'newbies' and realise that there's a queue to be joined

We had some late-arriving newcomer guys at Ceroc Cheltenham this Monday, and they didn't realise they had to wave their hands to get a girl from the queue to come over (or should they have walked over and grabbed a girl from the queue? I'm still not clear on the finer points of wallflower etiquette... :) ). In two cases, they didn't realise that there were spare women and they could join in. The same sort of thing has happened in the scatter classes I've gone too. What's obvious to folks who've been going a few weeks might not be to newcomers...

Interestingly, when I went from a scatter class to a queue class, I didn't have much of a problem, and I know someone who did the opposite, and she seemed to cope fine. Perhaps the confusion arises when an entire class is asked to switch? IE, if you have a class full of people who are only used to a queue, then switching to scatter is going to confuse them a bit - and vica versa. That seems to be what people are saying here.

If so, the message to teachers has to be - whatever you're doing, keep doing it! I'm sure they'll be relieved. :)

Andy McGregor
4th-August-2004, 12:16 AM
and they didn't realise they had to wave their hands to get a girl from the queue to come over (or should they have walked over and grabbed a girl from the queue? I'm still not clear on the finer points of wallflower etiquette... :) ).

A lot of guys go for this hand-up-fetch-me-a-woman. I think it's rude and unchivalrous. If you want a woman to dance with, please go and ask one :flower:

under par
4th-August-2004, 02:17 AM
A lot of guys go for this hand-up-fetch-me-a-woman. I think it's rude and unchivalrous. If you want a woman to dance with, please go and ask one :flower:

Andy there isn't always that much time available. :flower:

Lory
4th-August-2004, 09:06 AM
(or should they have walked over and grabbed a girl from the queue? I'm still not clear on the finer points of wallflower etiquette... :) ). This reminds me of a time when about Ten of us were standing in the 'wallflower queue' and this guy hurried in, obviously quite stressed at having missed the very start of the lesson, he was taking his coat off and changing his shoes, without taking his eye off the teacher. then he realised , hells bells, he had to get a woman, :blush: he spotted the queue, ran up but then he was completely flummoxed, :confused: you could see his brain ticking over as he eyed the queue, 'what do I do, what do I do? :what: do I take one from the front or the back (panic), not knowing what to do, he quickly walked up and down the queue and gave us all a fleeting 'once over' and ended up picking a lady from the middle. :eek: At which point, we all turned to each other, raising our eyebrows and gave each other a 'once over' then burst out laughing! :rofl: Poor bloke! you had to be there! :D

stewart38
4th-August-2004, 09:39 AM
l. (Unless there are more than 3 men moving on, because they are hopeless at counting, the number of times I've been bumped out of a class due to bad counting :angry:
Greg


I think women are fast worse at counting, they tend to talk more :sick:

Tiggerbabe
4th-August-2004, 09:46 AM
I think women are fast worse at counting, they tend to talk more :sick:
I disagree :na: (and we're better at typing, too :whistle: :whistle: )

Andy McGregor
4th-August-2004, 09:57 AM
Andy there isn't always that much time available. :flower:

There's always time for good manners. All you miss another minute of the lesson - what would Mary Poppins have said about this? I'm sure it's not "stick your hand in the air and wait for a woman to come over".

Tiggerbabe
4th-August-2004, 10:08 AM
There's always time for good manners.
I quite agree Andy :hug: , but must admit that if the "spare" man puts his hand up it doesn't bother me.
Sometimes, for a multitude of reasons there can be a man who ends up with no partner, if he puts his hand up it's easier for the teacher to spot and then ask one of the waiting ladies to join him.
Perhaps, for the reason Lory mentioned, that they are not sure which is the start and end of the queue (and not wanting to offend anyone by taking the "wrong" lady), this might be the easier option.

Having said that, I wouldn't expect anyone to do this when looking for a dance in freestyle :flower: :flower:

stewart38
4th-August-2004, 10:22 AM
I disagree :na: (and we're better at typing, too :whistle: :whistle: )


ok that was a bridge too far :blush:

Andy McGregor
4th-August-2004, 10:34 AM
Sometimes, for a multitude of reasons there can be a man who ends up with no partner, if he puts his hand up it's easier for the teacher to spot and then ask one of the waiting ladies to join him.


I agree with Sheena, I think it's ok to put your hand up if you end up without a partner during the rotation: you're bringing the failure of the rotation to the attention of the teacher, not demanding a woman. Also, you'd have to leave the line to find a new partner which might mess up the lines.

BUT, many guys do the imperious hand-in-the-air at the start of the lesson. They just line up without a partner and put their hand up - Mary Poppins would NOT approve.

Rachel
4th-August-2004, 10:56 AM
BUT, many guys do the imperious hand-in-the-air at the start of the lesson. They just line up without a partner and put their hand up - Mary Poppins would NOT approve. Totally agree with Andy here - this is one of my pet hates!
Rachel

Daisy Chain
4th-August-2004, 12:11 PM
'what do I do, what do I do? :what: do I take one from the front or the back (panic), not knowing what to do, he quickly walked up and down the queue and gave us all a fleeting 'once over' and ended up picking a lady from the middle. :eek: At which point, we all turned to each other, raising our eyebrows and gave each other a 'once over' then burst out laughing! :rofl: Poor bloke! you had to be there! :D

I was going to give you negative rep for this post. You've just made me look an absolute fool in front of several colleagues in my office because I have been hooting and howling uncontrollably over your post. More of the same please.

:rofl:

Daisy

Gordon J Pownall
4th-August-2004, 02:41 PM
A lot of guys go for this hand-up-fetch-me-a-woman. I think it's rude and unchivalrous. If you want a woman to dance with, please go and ask one :flower:

At Maidstone, (soon to be a NOSMO venue) thats what the guys do....now..... :whistle:

Took a long time to get the change - week after week they would stand waving their hands in the air until about four weeks ago, I made all the ladies stand and wait for a man to escort them on to the dancefloor. :flower:

It works and the ladies are quite insistent that they are escorted...... :clap: :clap:

stewart38
4th-August-2004, 03:58 PM
BUT, many guys do the imperious hand-in-the-air at the start of the lesson. They just line up without a partner and put their hand up - Mary Poppins would NOT approve.

You could do a thread on that, I find it so conceited, I love the shocked look when sometimes they find there are in fact more men and have to wonder off

It could be shyness of course and not rudeness

Also when men just join the end of a existing line mucking up the numbers

Go and get a partner although I do admit I dont always walk to the front :blush:

MartinHarper
4th-August-2004, 04:42 PM
Well, now I know - in most wallflower queues, pairing up on the dance floor with handwaving and such is poor etiquette. Instead, find a partner off the dance floor (possibly from the queue), and enter the dancefloor together. This does seem the pattern in my limited experience too. Curiously, that's not the case in the classes I go to with a scatter rotation, where the teacher encourages us to wave our hands if we've not got a man (or woman). Visiting folks used to being escorted onto the dancefloor must think that we're all terribly uncouth! :)

Gordon J Pownall
4th-August-2004, 04:45 PM
Well, now I know - in most wallflower queues, pairing up on the dance floor with handwaving and such is poor etiquette. Instead, find a partner off the dance floor (possibly from the queue), and enter the dancefloor together. This does seem the pattern in my limited experience too. Curiously, that's not the case in the classes I go to with a scatter rotation, where the teacher encourages us to wave our hands if we've not got a man (or woman). Visiting folks used to being escorted onto the dancefloor must think that we're all terribly uncouth! :)

I get the class to wave their hands in the air as they walk onto the dancefloor for the very first time as they partner up - only because they are approaching each other from all angles. :eek:

Within a couple of minutes any man who doesn't have a partner has to walk over to the line of ladies and 'escort' her on to the dancefloor - same for any man arriving late. :innocent:

Simple courtesy and etiquette costs nowt and as for taking time - should have been there for the start anyway.... :flower:

Also it stops men adding themselves on to the end of a row and messing up the ladies who so conscientiously count as they rotate.... :angry:

RobC
4th-August-2004, 05:23 PM
Curiously, that's not the case in the classes I go to with a scatter rotation, where the teacher encourages us to wave our hands if we've not got a man (or woman).
Could this not be more to do with practicalities ? If the spare (wo)men are already on the dance floor and spread all over the queues, you can hardly ask the partnerless dancers to leave the floor just to be escorted on again. The arm waving helps the late-comers identify where to find a partner and space to dance.

Whitebeard
5th-August-2004, 10:43 PM
We had some late-arriving newcomer guys at Ceroc Cheltenham this Monday .....

Are you the guy whose genes had fallen out with his shoes in a big way? Just couldn't have been mere shrinkage in the wash!!

If so, you're a real hero my boy .... my son .... nay, (almost) grandson .... an example to us all. The selflessness with which you invited a particular beginner to dance towards the end of the evening was awesome. This old codger, who sat on the sidelines, can only hang his head in shame and reflect that the younger generations are definitely not so degenerate as too often painted.

quiet_flame
6th-August-2004, 09:21 AM
There's always time for good manners. All you miss another minute of the lesson - what would Mary Poppins have said about this? I'm sure it's not "stick your hand in the air and wait for a woman to come over".

I agree with you here, if I come in late I'd grab a girl and look for the smallest line to join so I don't screw up the dancing space. If there's more guys rotating I tend to sit and chat to the door girl of that night cos well, I'd rather not have to learn how to count anytime soon. :wink: :D

The only reason I'd stick my hand in the air is if someone decides they need a break just as it's time to rotate with me :tears: :sad: ... I usually do it with such a huge grin on my face tho, most people can tell I just don't want to run all the way to the other side of the venue to grab a girl sitting paitiently waiting to be rotated on. :flower:
It's distracting when a 6'5" blonde guy runs quickly across the floor through people only to run back to where he was 10 seconds ago with the girl of his dreams (any girl :rofl: )... but only if he's lucky and the girl doesn't refuse him... otherwise he just looks silly!

Gadget
6th-August-2004, 11:46 AM
:blush: I must seem terribly uncouth - I'm afraid that I find a spot on the floor, then look to catch the eye of a lady approaching the side queue - if there are none initially visible, I stick my hand up. If everyone is taken, or comes onto the floor with partners, I simply start a queue for the men.
{I am normally one of the first to line up, so it's not like I'm in the middle of a mass, trying to be seen}

If I arrive late, I take the last person in the line (because they are the closest) and join in at the end of the smallest row.


With scatter Vs row, I agree with most people above: scatter works well for small numbers in circular classes. But there must be a combination solution for "move 20 round"? Have a waiting pool of half the ladies about the mid point as well as the line up?

bigdjiver
6th-August-2004, 08:28 PM
... With scatter Vs row, I agree with most people above: scatter works well for small numbers in circular classes. But there must be a combination solution for "move 20 round"? Have a waiting pool of half the ladies about the mid point as well as the line up? Divide class into even number of rows. Each set of two rows is, in effect, a separate mini-class. The movers on at the end of rows 1 & 2 line up at the end and move down row 1, back up row 2, and then back down row 1 next time.

The movers on at the end of rows 3 & 4 and 5 & 6 restrict themselves to those rows. So if there are 20 movers on and six rows, it is sufficient to move on 7 each time. I have seen this used at Bedford, and it worked well.

Gadget
6th-August-2004, 10:06 PM
but then the ladies only get to dance with half the men... not sure if that's a hardship or a blessing. :innocent:

bigdjiver
6th-August-2004, 10:34 PM
but then the ladies only get to dance with half the men... not sure if that's a hardship or a blessing. :innocent: It gives the movers on the option of which batch they join up with, which can be a great advantage for those that want to join the class and do not want to partner a particular person.

Emma
6th-August-2004, 10:37 PM
It gives the movers on the option of which batch they join up with, which can be a great advantage for those that want to join the class and do not want to partner a particular person.Not if everyone joins the same row ;)