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View Full Version : SHOULD "REP" BE ANONYMOUS ?



Mikey
23rd-July-2004, 02:49 AM
I am pretty sure I have seen this thread or something similar in the past.. but, not with a Poll attached.. so… here goes….

I don’t mind people either agreeing or disagreeing with my postings – but don’t have much respect for those who hide behind the anonymity of the present “rep” system to issue personal insults. I believe an individual should either stand by their remarks – or else not make them. I think all “rep” should automatically show who has sent it. I wondered if others agree?

Lou
23rd-July-2004, 07:14 AM
Hi Mikey,

I know I've posted about receiving anon neg rep before - but I think it would be unfair to switch now, after people have made their comments thinking it was an anonymous service.
Personally, I always put my name, but then, I always put comments too. It's the ones without comments that drive me mad!

Tiggerbabe
23rd-July-2004, 07:58 AM
It's the ones without comments that drive me mad!
:hug: I sign my name Lou and put comments, but think that people should have the choice if they don't want to do so.

What annoys me is when people come on and post about the neg rep they've received (and I do appreciate, Mikey, that the reason you've started this thread is not because of the neg rep itself, but the comments attached). I may not always agree with what everyone posts but, as has been previously stated the forum is here for debate, and it's the opportunity to listen to all viewpoints.
Perhaps sometimes people may not agree with a post but don't feel that they want to risk setting off a major argument on the thread, it could also be that they don't have time to compose a reply and so go for the "giving rep" option.

I've recieved neg rep too, but I still think the choice of remaining anonymous should rest with each individual. :flower:

Lou
23rd-July-2004, 08:15 AM
:hug: I sign my name Lou
Don't you think that'll get confusing, Sheena?! :hug: :flower:

Tiggerbabe
23rd-July-2004, 08:19 AM
Don't you think that'll get confusing, Sheena?! :hug: :flower:Oops! See what happens when you miss out a comma! :rofl: :hug:

bigdjiver
23rd-July-2004, 08:35 AM
There are some people that learn from criticism. There are some that react to criticism with emotional over-reaction and even violence.

If a poster keeps vigorously presenting one point of view, and their opponents give up fruitlessly presenting the counter-argument there is a tendency for newcomers to a forum to see the most expressed views as those most widely held. If the presenter of those views has a massive negative rep then it is clear that they are in the minority.

For those reasons I am pro the rep system, and pro preserving it being anonymous.

I think that this poll should have been anonymous.

FWIW I have not given out nearly enough + rep points, I will try to do better, and have decided, after consideration, not to give out - rep ones.

Gadget
23rd-July-2004, 09:05 AM
I've recieved neg rep too, but I still think the choice of remaining anonymous should rest with each individual. :flower:
:yeah:
Personally, I've never given any negative rep - I would rather debate the issue - but I sign every rep I give.

Incedently, the only negative reps I have had, I have had positive rep for exactly the same post :confused:

The rep system could be manipulated, but it would go against the whole spirit of this forum. I think it's nice that it could be used by newbies to comment, but remain anon on the forum.

philsmove
23rd-July-2004, 09:28 AM
Sorry for being ignorant can some one explain the rep system
Or point me to any explanation

Dance Demon
23rd-July-2004, 09:44 AM
:yeah:

Incedently, the only negative reps I have had, I have had positive rep for exactly the same post :confused:

Ah well Gadget...just goes to show how different people see different things... :)

Gadget
23rd-July-2004, 10:07 AM
Sorry for being ignorant can some one explain the rep system
Or point me to any explanation
Most of this has been discussed rather than being in an FAQ:

When you look under everyone's name/avatar there are green 'pips' - hover over them and it will say something like "forum member has a magnificent glow about them".
These pips are based on an accumulation of "rep" points, the description too.

To gain/loose reputation, anyone can click on the little scales (cabbage) to the left of the post (beside the on-line green light) and post a comment with an "I approve" or "I disapprove" tag.

The number of points gained/lost depends on both your current reputation and the number of posts you have posted.
(Although you can rep having only a few posts under your belt, it won't carry any weight until a threshold has been reached)

To see your current rep, just click on the "User Control Panel" link at the top of the page and it's right infront of you: Thread/post title (linked to specific post), Good(green)/Bad(red) Date and Comment.

Most people add a comment like "good post - I know where you're coming from. {Gadget}" or "What are you talking about; shear nonsense - AndyMcG" <- note the names on the end {:whistle::innocent:}. You can choose to omit a name but the person you are rep-ing can't tell who it's from without it (*). This poll is asking whether this should be the case, or whether it should list who it's from in your control panel.

(* the moderators can tell - so any abusive comments can be reported and the poster tracked down to be chastised.)

Mikey
23rd-July-2004, 10:12 AM
Hi Mikey,

I know I've posted about receiving anon neg rep before - but I think it would be unfair to switch now, after people have made their comments thinking it was an anonymous service.
Personally, I always put my name, but then, I always put comments too. It's the ones without comments that drive me mad!

I am not suggesting for one minute that any present or past "REP" left has a name put to it now.. that would be unfair I agree... I am refering to future "REP"...

Emma
23rd-July-2004, 10:12 AM
I think it's a really difficult issue. In an ideal world the reputations should never be anonymous, but also I believe the anonymity allows some people to have a say who might not normally voice their comments or views. For instance I don't like public polls, because actually I often prefer to keep my views on the subjects private ( hey, sometimes I'm embarrassed about them!!) so I very rarely vote on them. I happily vote on most anonymous polls. I'm not voting on the above because there's no third 'not very sure, I'd like to dither about this and contradict myself indefinitely' option ;).

I have to say that it does really rankle with me when people post and complain about getting negative reps, and that is why I reacted badly to Mikey's post last night. I was off topic, and assume someone else will moderate me (I have to moderate *myself* when I have a tantrum? That's far too grown up!!). I'd have probably been far better off starting a thread asking people's views on posting complaints about negative reps...mea culpa.

To be honest I dislike the whole reputations system - despite the fact that everyone says 'don't take it seriously' many people clearly do. There is a competitive element to it, and as a moderator I am aware of people giving one another rep for no apparent reason, and on occasion taking it away, too. This leaves a very nasty taste in the mouth. It reminds me of playground politics with people whispering behind each other's backs :tears: .Personally I think the forum would be a better place either without the rep feature, or alternatively with only the option for 'good' rep. I made the decision some time ago that I was only going to give good rep (I did give one bad one very early on and am still considering coming clean about it :blush: ). If something p*sses me off enough that I feel strongly about it I think it's far better to post publically. Hence last night's outburst :)

Spread the lerve, kids :flower: :flower: :flower: :flower: :)

Bardsey
23rd-July-2004, 10:36 AM
Hi Mikey,

Personally, I always put my name, but then, I always put comments too. It's the ones without comments that drive me mad!

:yeah: Me too! When receiving reps, its nice to read a comment, good or bad, and know who its from, IMO.

Gadget
23rd-July-2004, 10:38 AM
I am not suggesting for one minute that any present or past "REP" left has a name put to it now.. that would be unfair I agree... I am refering to future "REP"...
I don't think that's poss: it's either shown, or not. The only other way to do it would be to wipe the comments and start again, but I'm not sure if/how that would affect everyone's current rep.

Personally I think the forum would be a better place either without the rep feature, or alternatively with only the option for 'good' rep. I made the decision some time ago that I was only going to give good rep. If something p*sses me off enough that I feel strongly about it I think it's far better to post publically. Hence last night's outburst :)
:yeah: except the doing away with the rep; I prefer the alternative above.
I agree that there is probably a lot of "clique" rep-ing, but it should calm down after a while and people like DavidB will continue to be at the top of the rep list with informative and helpful posts (and the occasional one-liners :wink: ).

Lynn
23rd-July-2004, 10:46 AM
I can understand how getting negative anonymous rep, especially if it is accompanied by negative comments, is not very pleasant and not a good use of the Forum. I always sign my name (and haven't given any negative rep and don't intend to either). I really appreciate it when other people sign their name - I think people are much more inclined to do that with positive rep.

Sending anonymous negative rep with nasty comments is a bit juvenille IMO. But whether that is a case for doing away with anon rep, I'm not so sure.

Andy McGregor
23rd-July-2004, 11:19 AM
"What are you talking about; shear nonsense - AndyMcG" <- note the names on the end {:whistle::innocent:}.

Did I say that? I thought I could spell :innocent:

At least I was brave enough to put my name if I did :devil:

And, I'm certain I've given Gadget more positive rep than negative. Like a number of us on here Gadget expresses his opinion on many subjects and mostly I agree with him but sometimes I don't. If I'm going to give him positive rep when I agree with him I really should give negative rep when I don't. But I will put my name to it so he knows it's me - if I remember.

And, I respect Gadget for not immediately Neg Repping me in retaliation (or he's done it anonymously if he has, but I don't think those neg reps were him, but they still made me a nicer person :honest: ).

I think that the anonymity of negative rep can be seen as a positive thing. If you disagree with someone and want them to know you can tell them anonymously. That way the poster realises that people don't like what he/she is saying and it keeps conflict off the actual thread. The poster could see that feedback as a positive force for change or they could get angry/upset/vindictive. If I got loads of negative rep about something I was doing I would post an apology on the forum because I would realise that I was upsetting people. I got one negative rep regarding my postings on the £150 thread (subsequently moved outside), I regarded this as a wake-up call and posted the post which started "I am stopping this argument here" as a response to that negative rep. I preferred not to know who had given me the negative rep as it made no difference to my course of action and might have made me feel awkward when I met them - which would be silly as it's only debate and we (almost) all love each other in the fluffy world of dance :flower:


p.s. I will be fighting Gadget at the BFG at Sabre, foil and epee - he can attempt to get his revenge then - may the best man win :devil:

Minnie M
23rd-July-2004, 11:26 AM
:yeah:
Personally, I've never given any negative rep - I would rather debate the issue - but I sign every rep I give.


My last 2 REPS - Positive from Gordon and Negative from :whistle:

Was it good for you las... 20th-July-2004 03:54 PM Quite agree despite getting negative rep off gadget for our posts...Gordy.....x

Was it good for you las... 20th-July-2004 07:56 AM Tiger - new person. Probably not seen the other threads on the same topic. You probably just put him/her off ever starting any more threads. Why so vicious (capitals/angry emote) in your disapproval?

Gadget
23rd-July-2004, 11:30 AM
Did I say that?
no probably not - I was just picking on you. :devil:

Andy McGregor
23rd-July-2004, 11:36 AM
no probably not - I was just picking on you. :devil:

I'll take the fame however it's packaged :wink:

jivecat
23rd-July-2004, 12:19 PM
It reminds me of playground politics with people whispering behind each other's backs :tears:


It makes the forum more like real life. I know very few forum members in "real life" so when I read people's posts they are stripped down to the bare essentials of ideas and the written words that express them. All the nuances like physical posture and tone of voice that feed back to us when we converse with someone in person are absent. I can't even imagine how someone would sound if they were telling me their post instead of writing it 'cos I've never met them. So the rep system replicates that a little bit- it's like that unspoken sense of approval/disapproval that you get in real life which might tell you that you've offended someone or overstepped the mark in some way.

However one of the best things about the forum is the way it offers a chance to debate ideas. If I post a point of view then I should be able to cope with someone disagreeing with it as long as everything has been expressed politely but I would expect that to be part of public posting on a thread. Likewise if I read something that I disagreed with strongly enough I would write a post stating my disagreements hoping that my arguments/opinions would stand up to public scrutiny. If I didn't think that I shouldn't have been posting. So that is what I think people should be doing instead of leaving negative rep, especially anonymously.






I made the decision some time ago that I was only going to give good rep (I did give one bad one very early on and am still considering coming clean about it :blush: ). If something p*sses me off enough that I feel strongly about it I think it's far better to post publically.
:yeah:

I'm still smarting from my first (anonymous) negative rep so I was glad to see this thread this morning to help me get it into perspective. I'm off now to sprinkle some positive rep about, like fairy dust!

Franck
23rd-July-2004, 12:48 PM
I can understand how getting negative anonymous rep, especially if it is accompanied by negative comments, is not very pleasant and not a good use of the Forum. I always sign my name (and haven't given any negative rep and don't intend to either). I really appreciate it when other people sign their name - I think people are much more inclined to do that with positive rep.

Sending anonymous negative rep with nasty comments is a bit juvenille IMO. But whether that is a case for doing away with anon rep, I'm not so sure.My views, as voted above is that the reputation system should remain anonymous. I also think that more people should give negative reputation as well, every time you disagree with a view or a way it was expressed, you should hit the neg rep button (of course you should do the same everytime you agree or you want to rewards someone for being helpful / funny etc...)
I don't think you should sign negative reputation either, if you wanted to give a reasoned reply, you would just post on the thread and be accountable. There are many reasons why someone might want to disagree and remain anonymous, I believe it makes the Forum more accurate and fair, after all, it was recently posted:
Mikey has raised a good point, there is often a trend on this forum to be 'nice' about anything... eg
instead of putting a venue is not empty....we say...it has loads of dance space
the music was not bad...we say...it was challenging
the class was immpossible and boring...we say.... I had never seen moves like that beforeMaybe a bit of negative rep will help redress the 'luviness' balance.

DangerousCurves
23rd-July-2004, 01:24 PM
I have a vague memory of the reputations system being discussed a short while back, and concerns being raised about possible abuse of anonymity.

At the time people said that the "rep" was likely to be used as a bit of fun, and that forum members were all responsible adults.

I would agree that there are many responsible adults on here - but sadly there are some who behave like vindictive children, and the anonymity allows them freedom to write poison pen letters with impunity.

I basically think if you wouldn't say something to someone's face, you shouldn't be given the opportunity to say it behind their back. Giving feedback anonymously depended on people behaving reasonably with that priviledge - sadly, some have shown that they are not able to handle that level of maturity.

Andy McGregor
23rd-July-2004, 01:49 PM
My views, as voted above is that the reputation system should remain anonymous. I also think that more people should give negative reputation as well, every time you disagree with a view or a way it was expressed, you should hit the neg rep button (of course you should do the same everytime you agree or you want to rewards someone for being helpful / funny etc...)
I don't think you should sign negative reputation either, if you wanted to give a reasoned reply, you would just post on the thread and be accountable. There are many reasons why someone might want to disagree and remain anonymous, I believe it makes the Forum more accurate and fair, after all, it was recently posted:Maybe a bit of negative rep will help redress the 'luviness' balance.

As usual I agree with Franck. But I did think that people were already using the negative rep button. At least they are with me :tears: For example, of the last ten reps you can see on the list I got a negative for 2 of them (which is probably a slightly higher rate of negative rep giving than I give personally). I thought that one was justified and acted on it as mentioned earlier, the other was for going off-topic, which you might think is over-reacting but I had hijacked the thread to mention my dislike of smoking so it is understandable. But some people must like what I post, because, in spite of the negative reps I keep receiving I've got a similar score to DavidB, who is much nicer, more sensible, more knowledgeable and a better dancer than me - and he's taller too :tears: At least I've got better legs than him :clap:

On the subject of anonymity, I think there are some people who will take umbrage at the receipt of negative rep and lose their temper about it. If they knew who'd given the negative rep they might start an argument with them in the real world rather than the virtual one :tears: The giving of anonymous rep is like a secret ballot. And I think there is a place for a secret ballot so that everyone can give their honest view knowing that nobody is going to know how they voted or treat them differently because of the way they voted especially in dark alleyways :eek: A secret ballot is democratic and we live in a democracy. If people don't like to take part in a secret ballot they can always keep out of politics or find a place where the politics suits their personality:innocent:

Me? I'm looking for a place 'where the weather suits my clothes' :waycool:

Minnie M
23rd-July-2004, 01:51 PM
.........and Negative from :whistle:

:blush: PUBLIC APOLOGY :blush:

Really sorry Gadget for assuming :really: - second time I have embarassed myself over these rep points - they should NOT be anonymous as this sort of thing will happen often. Poor Gadget getting the blame for this ....

Second apology - to Tiger

I was a little harsh in my comment, I should have PM'd or been a little more polite. :flower:

Trish
23rd-July-2004, 02:54 PM
This thread has been interesting to me as someone who hasn't been on the forum for very long. I have posted a couple of +ve reps, but stupidly hadn't realised my name didn't appear on them, I can't remember whether I signed them or not because of this - I just presumed they were all named! However, now I know this I will make sure I sign them in the future. I tend to try not to be negative - in life as well as on the forum, and so I can't see that negative rep is very helpful - I'd rather post an open mail giving my opinions - but then I have a reputation for being blunt, so sorry if I end up upsetting anyone, it's not intentional!!

Trish

CJ
23rd-July-2004, 03:23 PM
For the record...

Rep has to be anonymous.

However, it's a HUGE bugbear of mine when someone has a go, but doesn't sign. I don't care for it, and would never do it. I am lucky enough to have the courage of my convictions, and able to put my name to them.

Whilst it should be the choice of people to make their own decision, I can't respect one who would neg rep, and not sign.

BTW, feel free to heap all the neg rep you so wish upon my tarnished soul... but let me know who you are!! :wink:

Funnily enough, part of it (like McG) is so that I can right my wrongs/apologise for what has been done, etc, etc...

Andy McGregor
23rd-July-2004, 03:36 PM
For the record...

Rep has to be anonymous.

-snip-

Funnily enough, part of it (like McG) is so that I can right my wrongs/apologise for what has been done, etc, etc...

I agree with CJ, and I would have given him rep for it but my rep bag is hanging empty and useless with the label "You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later."

See you later :clap:

Dance Demon
23rd-July-2004, 03:41 PM
Thought long & hard about this.......but probably I'd be happy for the positive rep to be ananymous, and the negative not, especially if there is a comment. if you feel strongly enough to give negative rep, you should be prepared to say why, and to put your name to it IHMO.... :nice:

Andy McGregor
23rd-July-2004, 03:50 PM
Thought long & hard about this.......but probably I'd be happy for the positive rep to be ananymous, and the negative not, especially if there is a comment. if you feel strongly enough to give negative rep, you should be prepared to say why, and to put your name to it IHMO.... :nice:

I'm not going to argue with you DD. I'm not going to agree with you either, I refer you to my previous answer :whistle:

Minnie M
23rd-July-2004, 04:03 PM
For the record...

Rep has to be anonymous.

However, it's a HUGE bugbear of mine when someone has a go, but doesn't sign. I don't care for it, and would never do it. I am lucky enough to have the courage of my convictions, and able to put my name to them....

Hmmm... here I go again

Way back when this was first introduced, I wrongly accused Trampy of giving me neg rep as at this time they were not named, then for a very short while, we did see names and I saw that this neg rep came from CJ but with no comment, why, I thought :confused: or was it just a trial run to see how it worked, a bit unfair though :tears:

Hence another reason for not making these reps anonymous :yeah:

However although I apologised to Trampy he decided to give me a neg rep for the acusation but left his name (that's OK I did deserve it)

To be honest, the whole idea is IMO a little silly, especially when forumites like Santa (16 posts) & Sassy1 (only 5 posts) gets lots of reps and very rarely posts :whistle: and the likes of Chicklet who posts regularly and has some interesting comments is below them on the Reps lists :confused:

CJ
23rd-July-2004, 04:04 PM
Thought long & hard about this.....

Oooohh, DD

I love it when you think long and hard... :whistle:

Prefer it when you TALK long and hard, too...

Dance Demon
23rd-July-2004, 04:07 PM
I'm not going to argue with you DD. I'm not going to agree with you either, I refer you to my previous answer :whistle:

Oh my gawd....am I starting to sound like a Lib-Dem....
:eek: :rofl:

Lou
23rd-July-2004, 04:07 PM
I also think that more people should give negative reputation as well, every time you disagree with a view or a way it was expressed, you should hit the neg rep button {snip} Maybe a bit of negative rep will help redress the 'luviness' balance.
Nope. I don't agree with you there, Franck. So please accept these lovely flowers :flower: :flower: :flower: instead of neg rep!

I *heart* Franck!

:kiss:

Gadget
23rd-July-2004, 04:28 PM
Personally, I'm highly aware that my quantity of posts and current rep make any negative rep from me even more devistating to the recipiant. (or however you spell it) This is one of the other main factors in my decision not to negative rep anyone.

Emma
23rd-July-2004, 05:31 PM
Nope. I don't agree with you there, Franck. So please accept these lovely flowers :flower: :flower: :flower: instead of neg rep!

I *heart* Franck!

:kiss::yeah: :grin:

Andy McGregor
23rd-July-2004, 05:52 PM
Personally, I'm highly aware that my quantity of posts and current rep make any negative rep from me even more devistating to the recipiant. (or however you spell it) This is one of the other main factors in my decision not to negative rep anyone.

Now they know that, maybe people will start being nice to you :flower:

..nah... :wink:

Andy McGregor
23rd-July-2004, 05:53 PM
Oh my gawd....am I starting to sound like a Lib-Dem....
:eek: :rofl:

No, you hold opinion and stick to them no matter what way the wind blows :devil:

Gadget
23rd-July-2004, 06:04 PM
Just noticed something: IMO I think that this poll should have been anonymous: would have encouraged more people to vote and no-one could be accuse of A only voting that way because B did {playground politics anyone?}

Gary
24th-July-2004, 04:24 AM
Over on the Australian ceroc forum we've got the rep system installed but hardly anyone uses it (either because they don't care or haven't worked it out yet).

I rarely give any rep, when I do I sign it, but I like the idea of people being able to give rep anonymously. Usually the people I want to give neg rep to are the ones who will then argue with me about it (I think I've only given neg rep once and got a PM about it immediately afterwards). If you want the rep system to give an indication of what people think, rather than what they feel like having an argument and justifying, then you have to let people do it anonymously.

Heidi
24th-July-2004, 12:35 PM
Hi, as a newcomer to this forum I haven't experienced the rep system but think the idea of it is pretty awful. The fact that people can send you negative reps and personally criticise you anonymously is not right - if they've got something to say they should have the guts to put their name by it or not say it at all. :angry: I know Mikey has recieved a lot of personal slagging off via this system and I don't think its fair. Some of you have criticised his style of dancing and the way he teaches, and whilst what he teaches is not 'modern jive' as such, it's good fun and its what we, the punters, love. I thought dancing was all supposesd to be about having a good time and enjoying yourself but it seems there are some people out there who just take the whole dance scene much too seriously - or maybe you're just jealous because Mikey's workshops and classes are always so popular! :mad: Anyway, this sort of personal vendetator shouldn't be allowed - if people have got something to say they should do it publicly and put their names to it. So for all you cowards out there all I can say is f off and get a life (not very grown up, I know, but that's the way I feel) and for all of you who enjoy Mikey's classes and way of dancing send him a message of support.

Glad I've got that off my chest! And I guess I'll get loads of negative reps for this!!! :grin:

Heidi xx

Andy McGregor
24th-July-2004, 01:26 PM
Just noticed something: IMO I think that this poll should have been anonymous: would have encouraged more people to vote and no-one could be accuse of A only voting that way because B did {playground politics anyone?}

But we do now know that The Tramp is still looking in from time to time :wink:

Franck
24th-July-2004, 01:30 PM
If you want the rep system to give an indication of what people think, rather than what they feel like having an argument and justifying, then you have to let people do it anonymously.Absolutely!

You managed to sum up what I tried to say earlier in one very succinct sentence!

Reputations will always be divisive, at some level, but many people have changed their mind several times, depending whether they have been receiving positive or negative rep :wink:

To answer Minnie's point, the best way to avoid blaming the wrong person for negative reputation, is not to jump to conclusions too quickly... :nice:

jivecat
24th-July-2004, 02:07 PM
The fact that people can send you negative reps and personally criticise you anonymously is not right - if they've got something to say they should have the guts to put their name by it or not say it at all. :angry: ]

Hi Heidi. Agree with you so far.



So for all you cowards out there all I can say is f off and get a life (not very grown up, I know, but that's the way I feel) ....

Probably wasn't a good idea to express it in these terms, however. A bit more mellow, next time, maybe? Grit your teeth for those negative reps!

Minnie M
24th-July-2004, 03:01 PM
To answer Minnie's point, the best way to avoid blaming the wrong person for negative reputation, is not to jump to conclusions too quickly... :nice:

:yeah: :hug: too true ..... bad habit of my :tears:

johnah
24th-July-2004, 03:55 PM
Hi, as a newcomer to this forum I haven't experienced the rep system but think the idea of it is pretty awful. The fact that people can send you negative reps and personally criticise you anonymously is not right - if they've got something to say they should have the guts to put their name by it or not say it at all. :angry: I know Mikey has recieved a lot of personal slagging off via this system and I don't think its fair. Some of you have criticised his style of dancing and the way he teaches, and whilst what he teaches is not 'modern jive' as such, it's good fun and its what we, the punters, love. I thought dancing was all supposesd to be about having a good time and enjoying yourself but it seems there are some people out there who just take the whole dance scene much too seriously - or maybe you're just jealous because Mikey's workshops and classes are always so popular! :mad: Anyway, this sort of personal vendetator shouldn't be allowed - if people have got something to say they should do it publicly and put their names to it. So for all you cowards out there all I can say is f off and get a life (not very grown up, I know, but that's the way I feel) and for all of you who enjoy Mikey's classes and way of dancing send him a message of support.

Glad I've got that off my chest! And I guess I'll get loads of negative reps for this!!! :grin:

Heidi xx

Hi Heidi,

As a first post, simply excellent and absolutely spot on. :clap:

Mikey is a supreme entertainer as well as being a first class teacher. He electrifies, stimulates and motivates his classes, but most of all he ensures his classes are FUN!

Dancers choose whether or not to attend them, but it is interesting to note that at every weekender I've seen him at, his classes tend to be the most popular. That says everything really.

Faceless critics, are not only cowards, but their measly words merit little attention. Not having the guts to put their name to their utterings says a lot about them, and the type of nasty person they really are. Their agenda/vendetta towards MIkey is transparent.

As difficult as it must be [and even harder for me to say], turn the other cheek Mikey, these cretins ain't worth it.

:wink:

www.jiveaddiction.com

Andy McGregor
24th-July-2004, 04:50 PM
Faceless critics, are not only cowards, but their measly words merit little attention. Not having the guts to put their name to their utterings says a lot about them, and the type of nasty person they really are. Their agenda/vendetta towards MIkey is transparent

As someone who does put it name to his criticism and has also stopped in his critique I would like to repeat what I said outside "I am stopping this argument here". I think thats enough now.

I hope that now you and Heidi have had your say you will let us go back to our normal business of jolly talk about dance and inane and inconsequential chatter :waycool:

Forte
24th-July-2004, 08:37 PM
I've recieved neg rep too, but I still think the choice of remaining anonymous should rest with each individual. :flower:
:eek: :really: Negative rep! How could they?! (I thought about it though for that "i before e except after c" moment... :rofl: :wink: )

Tiggerbabe
24th-July-2004, 08:50 PM
(I thought about it though for that "i before e except after c" moment... :rofl: :wink: )
Slip of the fingers Miss! Honest! :whistle: :blush: :tears:

Miss Conduct
24th-July-2004, 09:42 PM
With two of my favourite sayings in mind;

' If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all' and ' Everyone's entitled to their opinion - even if they are wrong'

I see no need to state your opinion or disagree with someone and not remain civil. There should be no need for people to hide behind anonymity if they can add their views in an articulate manner.

POPPET
25th-July-2004, 01:22 PM
I think Heidi says it all really well done. Wot a shame!! I havent signed in here for a while I can see why now! Dont really matter found a lovely new Forum anyhow, but I know whats been aimed at a dear friend of mine by a few sore assed bitches who basically arnt getting thier way in their personal life so they have come on here to vent (anonymously of course ...as if lol)...basically I agree that isnt what this sites about or for and they havent got the balls to put a name to their postings. You can negative rep me all you want but do leave your name if ya brave enough, I dont give a flying F*** LMAO

Andy McGregor
25th-July-2004, 03:38 PM
Can we stop the swearing on this thread, pleeese.

:flower:

TheTramp
25th-July-2004, 03:43 PM
I think Heidi says it all really well done. Wot a shame!! I havent signed in here for a while I can see why now! Dont really matter found a lovely new Forum anyhow, but I know whats been aimed at a dear friend of mine by a few sore assed bitches who basically arnt getting thier way in their personal life so they have come on here to vent (anonymously of course ...as if lol)...basically I agree that isnt what this sites about or for and they havent got the balls to put a name to their postings. You can negative rep me all you want but do leave your name if ya brave enough, I dont give a flying F*** LMAO
You know. Your first few posts were pleasant enough. After seeing this one, I'm glad that you've found another forum. Please don't hurry back if you're going to carry on posting rubbish like this!! :grin:

Trampy

Gus
25th-July-2004, 03:51 PM
You know. Your first few posts were pleasant enough. After seeing this one, I'm glad that you've found another forum. Please don't hurry back if you're going to carry on posting rubbish like this!! :grin:

Trampy

Hmmm ... three new valiant supporters of Mikey. My cynical side can't help feeling that the strength (and language) or the arguments may lie more with personal rather than professional motivation. I know that at least one of the 'defenders' is 'involved' with Mikey .... would the other two maybe like to disclose if their support is based on a similar basis? :whistle:

PS ... just re-read ... I dont mean to say that you are all involved at the same time .... if you know what I mean :blush:

Heidi
25th-July-2004, 04:28 PM
Hmmm ... three new valiant supporters of Mikey. My cynical side can't help feeling that the strength (and language) or the arguments may lie more with personal rather than professional motivation. I know that at least one of the 'defenders' is 'involved' with Mikey .... would the other two maybe like to disclose if their support is based on a similar basis? :whistle:

PS ... just re-read ... I dont mean to say that you are all involved at the same time .... if you know what I mean :blush:

It may be because we all personally know Mikey that we heard about what was happening, but the argument still stands, whether the negative comments are against Mikey or anyone else. If you haven't got the guts to put your name against a negative comment then you shouldn't be sending it in the first place. And this was a personal attack not a professional one anyhow! :sad:

TheTramp
25th-July-2004, 04:34 PM
From what I can tell, most of the negative comments were made in 'rep' comments. So, the only person who would have seen them, would be Mikey (of course, the moderators can, but I doubt they have time to look at all the rep being handed out). Until Mikey decided to publicise all the comments. Which was his decision.

So, while some of them were a little less intelligent than I'd like to see, it was a private matter, which Mikey chose to make public.

I have had some negative rep that just says "You're a dog". Unsigned. I chose to ignore it, as someone either trying to be funny (and not suceeding), or someone whose opinion I didn't care about anyhow, so why would I worry about it.

I think that we all would have been better off if Mikey had just taken it in the same way. Water off a ducks back etc. It certainly didn't need people joining the forum, just to make unpleasant comments based on rumour....

Trampy

DangerousCurves
25th-July-2004, 04:42 PM
Good Gracious Gus! :D

It's not very gentlemanly to demand that ladies revel their intimacies!!!

You could be starting a whole new thread there - and a whole heap of controversy!

Seriously - Quite a few people in the last few postings on both this thread and the "Commercial Subscriptions" thread have expressed the view that Mikey has received some unwarranted criticism. Some have been more moderate in their speech than others. Perhaps some who were upset have only now, seeing other people express similar views, felt able to express that upset. I don't think this is some strange conspiracy.... unless you feel that the others who have expressed the view such as Lounge Lizard, Jonnah, DD and (erm :blush: ) your good self - are also Mikey's sercet paramours???

Naaahhh - Didn't think so! :devil:

POPPET
25th-July-2004, 04:52 PM
You know. Your first few posts were pleasant enough. After seeing this one, I'm glad that you've found another forum. Please don't hurry back if you're going to carry on posting rubbish like this!! :grin:

Trampy
Wot so you can post snotty remarks to me, but im not allowed too!
Andy my babe ..can I swear again just one more time hun...giggles
XXX

Andy McGregor
25th-July-2004, 04:56 PM
It may be because we all personally know Mikey that we heard about what was happening,

Are you now saying that the "vicious rumours" weren't on here at all and were told to you by Mikey? :confused:

Firstly we get complaints about rumours on the Forum that none of us have seen and now we're being told that they've been heard only by people that "personally know Mikey".

This is now turning into a farce and I won't be posting any more on this particular fiction; I'll be in the hollow tree drinking a Pimms if anyone want me :waycool:

Andy McGregor
25th-July-2004, 04:59 PM
Andy my babe ..can I swear again just one more time hun...giggles
XXX

I always find that the offer of a snog worries The Tramp more than swearing :devil:

POPPET
25th-July-2004, 05:04 PM
Hmmm ... three new valiant supporters of Mikey. My cynical side can't help feeling that the strength (and language) or the arguments may lie more with personal rather than professional motivation. I know that at least one of the 'defenders' is 'involved' with Mikey .... would the other two maybe like to disclose if their support is based on a similar basis? :whistle:

PS ... just re-read ... I dont mean to say that you are all involved at the same time .... if you know what I mean :blush:

Hey were all go to Strictly Sinful so well experianced in double trouble and treble trouble and quadruple trouble even, hadnt you heard :wink: im involved in dancing, nothing more. Sorry but my comments are based on fact not sex. LMAO.

TheTramp
25th-July-2004, 05:10 PM
Wot so you can post snotty remarks to me, but im not allowed too!

Nononono....

Feel free to post snotty remarks.:whistle:

Just hold off the factually inaccurate (you can't know for sure who posted anonymous rep, so you can't describe them!) posts that contain bad language... :D

Trampy

POPPET
25th-July-2004, 05:10 PM
I always find that the offer of a snog worries The Tramp more than swearing :devil:

Eerrrrrrrrrr ok Trampy stop throwing your toys out the pram & snog me lol
:kiss:

TheTramp
25th-July-2004, 05:18 PM
Well. As long as you're not a brickie from Stoke. Or Andy McGregor....

Sure :whistle: :kiss:

Trampy

POPPET
25th-July-2004, 05:22 PM
Well. As long as you're not a brickie from Stoke. Or Andy McGregor....

Sure :whistle: :kiss:

Trampy
Trampy and I are having a snog in the corner shhhhhhhhhh :drool:

TheTramp
25th-July-2004, 05:28 PM
Woo hoo!!! :clap:

Trampy

Andy McGregor
26th-July-2004, 01:39 AM
Well. As long as you're not a brickie from Stoke. Or Andy McGregor....

Sure :whistle: :kiss:

Trampy

So, you prefer Poppet to me :mad:

What's that woman got that I haven't :wink:

under par
26th-July-2004, 07:50 AM
So, you prefer Poppet to me :mad:

What's that woman got that I haven't :wink:


I haven't got all day Andy ..........looks....taste....talent....... height!!!......................................... .................................................. ..

I've just got home from working nights I'll go to bed now and finish this later...could be a long post! :rofl: :rofl:

Sparkles
26th-July-2004, 09:22 AM
Trampy and I are having a snog in the corner shhhhhhhhhh :drool:

Oi!
Get off him! :angry:

Gordon J Pownall
26th-July-2004, 09:31 AM
I haven't got all day Andy ..........looks....taste....talent....... height!!!.....:

Oi...!!! lay off the height....it's well known that at the JiveMasters last night, Andy and I (and Adam) got more dances thatn anyone else becuase we are all the perfect height....unlike some......

Unless you have been kipping in the Hollow Tree House, you would know that following a recent survey using extensive scientific techniques, the perfect height for a male dancer is 5' 7" - 5' 8". :whistle:

Andy, Adam and I therefore are perfect in this aspect.......as for looks, taste and talent, you need to spend some time in Andy's wardrobe. He has some amazing frocks, blouses and (dare I say it), underwear......... :really:

All the girls agree that they would love to have an extensive range of clothes, bags, shoes and boa's..... :worthy:

POPPET
26th-July-2004, 10:20 AM
Oi!
Get off him! :angry:

Andy made me do it! ........................giggle

Andy McGregor
26th-July-2004, 10:26 AM
Andy made me do it! ........................giggle

At last! A woman that I can make do things :clap:

I've got this huge pile of ironing...

POPPET
26th-July-2004, 10:37 AM
At last! A woman that I can make do things :clap:

I've got this huge pile of ironing...

Ohhh Andy im ok with jeans and T shirts but just awful at dresses! :innocent:

Andy McGregor
26th-July-2004, 10:45 AM
Ohhh Andy im ok with jeans and T shirts but just awful at dresses! :innocent:

I don't own any jeans and all my dresses are Lycra (tm): which I hate because it shows all my imperfections and none of my perfections - maybe they're all in my imagination :whistle:

Dance Demon
26th-July-2004, 02:23 PM
Well. As long as you're not a brickie from Stoke. Or Andy McGregor....

Sure :whistle: :kiss:

Trampy

So....it would be OK ito snog a brickie from anywhere else then.....just not from Stoke
:devil: :wink:

Lounge Lizard
26th-July-2004, 02:53 PM
So....it would be OK ito snog a brickie from anywhere else then.....just not from Stoke
:devil: :wink:as a brickie from Eastbourne I am getting worried where this thread is heading

Dance Demon
26th-July-2004, 03:02 PM
as a brickie from Eastbourne I am getting worried where this thread is heading

seems like Stoke might be the safest place Peter......
:rofl:

Andy McGregor
26th-July-2004, 03:03 PM
as a brickie from Eastbourne I am getting worried where this thread is heading

..pass the trowel, hot-lips :wink:

Pammy
26th-July-2004, 03:06 PM
..pass the trowel, hot-lips :wink:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Lounge Lizard
26th-July-2004, 03:33 PM
..pass the trowel, hot-lips :wink:Be wary of the bricklayers ability to induce bulging eyes in his adversary
'Take one brick in either hand, extend arms to full width, bring together with maximum force at about 6"-8" below your adversarys waist level, listen for the ringing sound of baked clay meeting baked clay, softend by the dull thud of compressed fleshy parts :tears:
But dont worry it does not hurt, unless I get my fingers trapped :whistle:

POPPET
26th-July-2004, 07:10 PM
I don't own any jeans and all my dresses are Lycra (tm): which I hate because it shows all my imperfections and none of my perfections - maybe they're all in my imagination :whistle:

I can see you in floaty georgette ....i will lend you
cool iron dont forget but take the dress of first, dont want to hurt those imperfections!
maybe we ought to dry clean only!!!
:worthy:

POPPET
26th-July-2004, 07:17 PM
Be wary of the bricklayers ability to induce bulging eyes in his adversary
'Take one brick in either hand, extend arms to full width, bring together with maximum force at about 6"-8" below your adversarys waist level, listen for the ringing sound of baked clay meeting baked clay, softend by the dull thud of compressed fleshy parts :tears:
But dont worry it does not hurt, unless I get my fingers trapped :whistle:



In the builders bum! :rofl:

Andy McGregor
26th-July-2004, 08:42 PM
I can see you in floaty georgette ....

Makes me look like a fairy...

POPPET
27th-July-2004, 12:12 AM
Makes me look like a fairy...
Arnt you a bit old to beieve in fairies....oooh i get it :whistle: ...say no more ! :wink: hee hee still a man that can double dip DangerousCurves and me simultaneously is by no means a fairie, we still talk about that......Andy you are a Dance God ...giggle :worthy:

Bardsey
27th-July-2004, 01:31 PM
Makes me look like a fairy...

Oh yes? And what's wrong with looking like a fairy? But lets be honest, Andy, you couldn't look like me in a million years........you might be able to fake the "outwardly projecting" chest area, but not the wings.......never the wings! :rofl:

Andy McGregor
27th-July-2004, 06:15 PM
but not the wings.......never the wings! :rofl:

Mine are moving so fast you can't see them :wink:

JamesGeary
27th-July-2004, 11:19 PM
Everyone who uses the forum is wonderful.
(I just want to see if I can get some rep, its tough having no aura)

POPPET
28th-July-2004, 07:58 AM
Mine are moving so fast you can't see them :wink:


I think Andy has had to much..... Red Bull! > (gives you wings!) :wink:

Bardsey
28th-July-2004, 10:48 AM
Mine are moving so fast you can't see them :wink:

Yes I've heard you're a bit of a "humming" bird :rofl:

Andy McGregor
28th-July-2004, 11:30 AM
Yes I've heard you're a bit of a "humming" bird :rofl:

I thought nobody could hear the buzzing :blush:

Minnie M
28th-July-2004, 12:17 PM
How many voters are voting on the title rather than the question :confused:


View Poll Results: Should any “REP” given, (good or bad) automatically have the writers name attached ?


SHOULD "REP" BE ANONYMOUS

IMHO I think lots of votes for YES have been mislead

Gadget
28th-July-2004, 12:59 PM
Well, the "no" says "I think it should remain anonymous, NO.", don't you think that "yes" would be the opposite of that? ie be attributed to the reputer.

Lynn
28th-July-2004, 01:19 PM
Well, the "no" says "I think it should remain anonymous, NO.", don't you think that "yes" would be the opposite of that? ie be attributed to the reputer.
But if you read the poll quickly and looked at the title - 'Should rep be anonymous' you might just click on 'Yes' thinking you were voting 'yes it should be anonymous' but you are voting, 'yes, names should show'. Of course I'm sure everyone reads all polls very carefully before voting.

DangerousCurves
28th-July-2004, 07:15 PM
Fortunately, most people have not only voted, but left a reasoned argument as to why they voted the way they did. Looking at those arguments, no-one who has posted has gone on to vote the contrary way on the poll.

Raise the flag for the good sense of the forumites, who read the small print before they sign! :clap:

Lynn
28th-July-2004, 08:29 PM
Raise the flag for the good sense of the forumites, who read the small print before they sign! :clap: At least it shows they are paying attention - and thinking about why they are voting.

Minnie M
28th-July-2004, 09:22 PM
But if you read the poll quickly and looked at the title - 'Should rep be anonymous' you might just click on 'Yes' thinking you were voting 'yes it should be anonymous' but you are voting, 'yes, names should show'. Of course I'm sure everyone reads all polls very carefully before voting.

:yeah: that's what I meant :cheers:


Raise the flag for the good sense of the forumites, who read the small print before they sign

I think you can vote without making a posting

DangerousCurves
28th-July-2004, 10:03 PM
:I think you can vote without making a posting


Yes, you can - but everyone who has posted and voted, has voted in a way consistant with the views which they expressed - so the issue of possible confusion doesn't seem to have in fact been a problem. :nice:

Gordon J Pownall
28th-July-2004, 10:11 PM
Yes, you can - but everyone who has posted and voted, has voted in a way consistant with the views which they expressed - so the issue of possible confusion doesn't seem to have in fact been a problem. :nice:

Eh...????

...someone tell me what to do...I'm too confused now..... :confused: :whistle: :confused: :whistle:


....is there a JiveMasters video I can borrow (unless there are still some for sale.......?)....


:cheers:

Andy McGregor
29th-July-2004, 02:10 AM
Fortunately, most people have not only voted,

"Most people" have NOT voted: 35 people have voted. Out of nearly 1000 people a mere 35 is not "most people" - at least when I did statistics it wasn't - it was 3.5%. So now we know that 2% of the forum vote one way and 1.5% voted the other - and that's if they weren't confused by the ambiguous construction of the question :confused:

However, the debate was well reasoned - but I don't think it changed anyone's mind.

Here is the main question, should Franck change his practice based on the view of 2% of the forum?

bigdjiver
29th-July-2004, 09:25 AM
... should Franck change his practice based on the view of 2% of the forum? Any leader should be persuaded by the arguments, not by the numbers. Leaders have to make unpopular decisions at times. The greatest progress, (and greatest disasters) are made by leaders who believe X when everybody else believes Y.

Sparkles
29th-July-2004, 09:28 AM
Any leader should be persuaded by the arguments, not by the numbers. Leaders have to make unpopular decisions at times. The greatest progress, (and greatest disasters) are made by leaders who believe X when everybody else believes Y.
:yeah:
Well said, I like it.

Emma
29th-July-2004, 09:31 AM
I think Franck should do what he darn well pleases....it's his ball, he can play with it as he likes :)

Obviously if I don't like his 'rules' then I''ll do my level best to get him to change them, but at the end of the day this forum isn't really a democracy, it's a benign dictatorship :wink:

Andy McGregor
29th-July-2004, 10:20 AM
Any leader should be persuaded by the arguments, not by the numbers. Leaders have to make unpopular decisions at times. The greatest progress, (and greatest disasters) are made by leaders who believe X when everybody else believes Y.

Absolutely right. That's how they become a leader :clap:

But we do have a poll and more people have voted one way than the other; I was pointing out that neither view is that of "most people".

As Emma says, it's Franck's decision; but he does listen. I was just pointing out that he might find himself listening to 20 people out of 1000 - or even 15 people out of that same thousand. When what I think he should be doing is listening to one person...

Emma
29th-July-2004, 10:26 AM
it's Franck's decision; but he does listen..Yeah, sorry - never meant to imply that he doesn't!! :eek:

Andy McGregor
29th-July-2004, 10:30 AM
Yeah, sorry - never meant to imply that he doesn't!! :eek:

And I never meant to imply that you'd implied that he doesn't listen :hug:

DangerousCurves
29th-July-2004, 12:51 PM
"Most people" have NOT voted: 35 people have voted. Out of nearly 1000 people a mere 35 is not "most people" - at least when I did statistics it wasn't - it was 3.5%.

I don't have a problem with your point that the majority of people on the forum has not expressed an opinion one way or the other - its a good point, and you are right to raise it.

However, please don't quote me out of context - my posting was making the point that of those who had voted, MOST had also posted their reasons for so voting. I was not claiming that 35 out of 1000 constituted a majority! :rofl:

Gordon J Pownall
29th-July-2004, 01:16 PM
...my posting was making the point that of those who had voted, MOST had also posted their reasons for so voting. I was not claiming that 35 out of 1000 constituted a majority! :rofl:

This is true of all political asignations.

Everyone who is a forum member has the opportunity to make a decision as follows :-

Do I want to vote...?

If the answer is no then that is their choice to exclude themselves and any responsiblity towards them from whatever decision making process is to be taken, including any potential outcomes. :what:

If the answer is yes, then people then have to decide what they want to vote for (or against)...???

If out of 1000 people, only 35 people have voted then the other 965 people have decided OF THEIR OWN VOLITION not to participate or voice an opinion and as such, leave themselves subject to the decisions made in their absence or apathy.

This is the same in any democratic society the world over, council elections, votes for who is to be Mayor of Scrag End on-the-Marsh, national government etc etc.

The annoying thing is where people blaaart on about issues that they are unhappy about without every taking part in any democratic process....

You know the kind of conversations...'the Labour government is crap'

'who did you vote for then...??'

'I didn't vote......'

Tough (IMHO).
:yeah:


Ultimately Franck will make, decide and implement policy, we can influence that through polls etc etc, but at the end of the day, this isn't a democracy (the forum), it's a business venture and Franck is the big cheese, A1, Top Dog, The Man, The Daddy, HRH, MD, Top Banana...

Who's the Daddy......Franck's the Daddy

and so on..(message understood...???)

By the way....keep up the good work Franck...... :worthy: :worthy:



Labour and any other reference to The Labour Party was used as an example above and in no way reflects the authors opinion or political preferences or leanings..............even if he does think that Labour are a bunch of lying toadies with no ethics, morals or scruples who would send you up the river as soon as actually meet the needs of the electorate. :whistle:

In no way was any preference that Maggie Thatcher should be back in power as soon as possible as President of the World inferred or intended (although that would be a good thing...IMHO...)........ :whistle:

Andy McGregor
29th-July-2004, 01:20 PM
I don't have a problem with your point that the majority of people on the forum has not expressed an opinion one way or the other - its a good point, and you are right to raise it.

However, please don't quote me out of context - my posting was making the point that of those who had voted, MOST had also posted their reasons for so voting. I was not claiming that 35 out of 1000 constituted a majority! :rofl:


Sorry, it was the way I read this sentence -

"Fortunately, most people have not only voted, but left a reasoned argument as to why they voted the way they did."

- was that you were saying that most people have voted. Just goes to show how imprecise the written word can be at conveying a message from one person to another.

Besides, I'm not sure that even close to half of 25 people who voted have written anything to support their argument. And what about those people who changed their mind due to the cut and thrust of debate, were there any? And how could they change their vote if they changed their mind?

DangerousCurves
29th-July-2004, 01:50 PM
Sorry,

:hug: :hug: :hug:



Besides, I'm not sure that even close to half of 25 people who voted have written anything to support their argument. And what about those people who changed their mind due to the cut and thrust of debate, were there any? And how could they change their vote if they changed their mind?

Quick check showed 21 had posted as well as voting. I don't think you can re-vote on any poll if you change your mind (though NOT a technical guru :rofl: ). I guess anyone who was persuaded to a contrary view would have to submit a posting revealing their epiphany!

Dance Demon
29th-July-2004, 02:44 PM
T
If out of 1000 people, only 35 people have voted then the other 965 people have decided OF THEIR OWN VOLITION not to participate or voice an opinion and as such, leave themselves subject to the decisions made in their absence or apathy.


L
In no way was any preference that Maggie Thatcher should be back in power as soon as possible as President of the World inferred or intended (although that would be a good thing...IMHO...)........ :whistle:

Think it's fair to say that the MAJORITY of people who are registered on this forum do not take much active part in anything, and many have stopped posting a long time ago......

Re the politics,......You're obviously not Scottish then..... :wink: :whistle:

bigdjiver
29th-July-2004, 03:25 PM
This is true of all political asignations.

Everyone who is a forum member has the opportunity to make a decision as follows :-

Do I want to vote...?
ans: Yes

Do I think that polls should be anonymous: yes

Am I going to support a flawed poll? No

A decision that pleases 99% of the population just a little is going to receive little praise - to them it is obviously right. If it greatly displeases the other 1% you can expect some vocal reaction from them. Leaders have to make decisions based on the quality of the arguments, not just on the amounts of noise generated.

Andy McGregor
29th-July-2004, 04:00 PM
ans: Yes

Do I think that polls should be anonymous: yes

Am I going to support a flawed poll? No

A decision that pleases 99% of the population just a little is going to receive little praise - to them it is obviously right. If it greatly displeases the other 1% you can expect some vocal reaction from them. Leaders have to make decisions based on the quality of the arguments, not just on the amounts of noise generated.

Very well put :clap:

And, most of the time this is true. The one event in politics where this was obviously forgotten was with English poll tax :tears:

Gordon J Pownall
30th-July-2004, 10:43 AM
Think it's fair to say that the MAJORITY of people who are registered on this forum do not take much active part in anything, and many have stopped posting a long time ago......

Re the politics,......You're obviously not Scottish then..... :wink: :whistle:

Quite agree....very well put mate...

..and as to the other.....actually of Scottish descent...... :cheers:

Andy McGregor
30th-July-2004, 01:13 PM
Quite agree....very well put mate...

..and as to the other.....actually of Scottish descent...... :cheers:

There is a story about there being more of us Scots living outside Scotland than inside - must be the midges :sick:

Gordon J Pownall
30th-July-2004, 01:15 PM
Ooooh Errrrrrr....

Just got some (anonymous) bad rep for mentioning Mrs T on a Scottish forum.....

Didn't realise that feelings ran so strong.......

I suppose that differences of opinion will always exist and that is a good thing....

Just remember The Life of Brian......

"the Romans are scum - Romans go home..."

"Yeah - what have the Romans ever done for us...?"

...and then the long list of wine, viaducts, healthcare, safe streets etc, etc.......


There are always two sides to every story.........and different perceptions to be experienced....


Damn - that all sounds a bit serious - not intended by any means...... :drool: :drool: :drool: :whistle:

under par
30th-July-2004, 01:18 PM
Ooooh Errrrrrr....

Just got some (anonymous) bad rep for mentioning Mrs T on a Scottish forum.....

Didn't realise that feelings ran so strong.......

I suppose that differences of opinion will always exist and that is a good thing....

Just remember The Life of Brian......

"the Romans are scum - Romans go home..."

"Yeah - what have the Romans ever done for us...?"

...and then the long list of wine, viaducts, healthcare, safe streets etc, etc.......


There are always two sides to every story.........and different perceptions to be experienced....


Damn - that all sounds a bit serious - not intended by any means...... :drool: :drool: :drool: :whistle:


And what has Gordy ever done for us???? :whistle: Answers on post card :worthy: :hug:

Dance Demon
30th-July-2004, 02:37 PM
Ooooh Errrrrrr....
Just got some (anonymous) bad rep for mentioning Mrs T on a Scottish forum.....


Not guilty gov' .......I am quite open about my hatred for Mrs Thatch.... :D

I mean ...what did she ever do for Scoland........erm.....poll tax,..No more Steel industry, no more coal industry, ................ :angry:

Andy McGregor
30th-July-2004, 06:01 PM
Not guilty gov' .......I am quite open about my hatred for Mrs Thatch.... :D

I mean ...what did she ever do for Scoland........erm.....poll tax,..No more Steel industry, no more coal industry, ................ :angry:

I hope that people have noticed the total absence of an answer from me - my total silence on this subject has been very hard and I hope it is appreciated :waycool:

Gordon J Pownall
30th-July-2004, 06:37 PM
I hope that people have noticed the total absence of an answer from me - my total silence on this subject has been very hard and I hope it is appreciated :waycool:

Satisfaction and a clear conscience in silence Andy...... :worthy: :worthy: :worthy:

Dreadful Scathe
2nd-August-2004, 10:33 AM
Wasnt this about REP at one point ? :)

Im happy with the rep system as it stands. You can leave a comment about a post without having to reply in public and the recipient can pay as much attention as they want to what you say. No one will get away with abuse as the moderators can see who posted the messages. In the past offensive/stupid/pointless posts have been moved by the moderators into take it outside/upstairs threads and we've had complaints from the authors about how hard done by they were - at least now the flood of neg rep will let authors know if people really didnt like what they posted without the threat of a nasty response. Mikeys 'bad smell' neg rep is pointlessly childish though, someone needs to put more thought into their insults :).

BUT, Until reputation points are legal requirements for my CV Im not going to worry about it overly :).



The annoying thing is where people blaaart on about issues that they are unhappy about without every taking part in any democratic process....
You know the kind of conversations...'the Labour government is crap'

'who did you vote for then...??'

'I didn't vote......'


Why is that annoying ? You are entitled to representation despite your voting record. I would say abstaining is just as valid a part of the democratic process (unless its illegal in your country e.g. Australia ? :) )
If they would have voted for a minority party then it could consider it a pointless vote - so why bother. Of course if everyone who thought that refused to vote, the party in question is missing out but that its the choice of the individual and one vote will only ever make a difference if theres one vote in it :) (despite some arguments :) your lack of vote will not implicilty affect anyone elses). Its only with the power of groups of people ganging up, or paying politicians money (lobbying i beleive its called :) ) that change is made.

Andy McGregor
3rd-August-2004, 10:44 AM
Wasnt this about REP at one point ? :)

The King of off-topic posting brings things back into line; I don't believe it.

You can't fool us DS, you must have some evil plan.

DianaS
3rd-August-2004, 11:09 AM
Hi Folks I've only just realised what those green pips are and hadda look at mine!

I have one bad rep saying "try staying on the thread even if english is a struggle.." unsigned(!) thanks I WILL try, its just that one persons post somtimes sparks off a whole load of thoughts and they go off it their own direction. Oppps am i drifting?...! :blush:

and SIX positive reps for the same thread of contributions! It just made me laugh. I do have one person on my ignore list so I s'pose that if they had sent me some I wouldn't have seen it (?) But hey I could un-ignore them and see if they have sent me any it could be good or it could be bad! But then it wouldn't be anonymous would it?

It was a nice surprise, but I can't say how I'd feel if I'd had a load of bad rep unsigned...I'd probably not stay around to play for a while

I've done un-ignore now and found another bad rep, so it would seem its hardly anonymous is it? :rofl:

Bardsey
3rd-August-2004, 03:40 PM
The King of off-topic posting brings things back into line; I don't believe it.

You can't fool us DS, you must have some evil plan.

He's just in his new acting role at the moment (newly-wed Mr Serious) Don't worry Andy, it won't last! :whistle:

Chickadee
3rd-August-2004, 06:02 PM
I hope that people have noticed the total absence of an answer from me - my total silence on this subject has been very hard and I hope it is appreciated :waycool:

Totally agree, surely the forum can be used for 'more interesting' topics?! I'll try and think of some... :whistle:

Gordon J Pownall
4th-August-2004, 03:13 PM
Totally agree, surely the forum can be used for 'more interesting' topics?! I'll try and think of some... :whistle:

Andy has of course taken the mature (blue) choice of restricting his comments to maintain an air of decorum, now that Mr Newly Wed has grown a sensible head (any thumb print at the front yet...????) :wink: :wink: :wink:


Seriously though, totally off thread and it has been cut and moved elsewhere (where it died a slow LABOURious death...!!!) :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:

MartinHarper
6th-August-2004, 11:24 AM
From elsewhere:


I've just received negative rep for the above post the comment was 'no content' - it was unsigned.

That would be me. I dissaprove with posts which take up space with no discernable content. I didn't sign it, because I didn't see my identity as being particularly relevant. If I was someone important, it would be different.


The 'did I say all that?' referred to the massive post above which was full of content, much of it contentious.

The post above was indeed full of content. Therefore I do not dissapprove of it for having no content, and did not give that post negative rep.


this one is just nasty

To clarify, I don't give "negative rep" because I think someone is evil, or misguided, or stupid, or incompetent, or because they smell, or because they make me mad. I mark individual posts as "I disapprove" if I disapprove of them in some way. I confess that I'm not very rigorous about this. I'd guess about 50% of my marks are "approve" and 50% are "disapprove".

I'm not wildly enamoured with the rep system, so I'll be happy to just quit using it if people think I'm misusing it, or if I'm causing unnecessary tension.

TheTramp
6th-August-2004, 11:48 AM
To clarify, I don't give "negative rep" because I think someone is evil, or misguided, or stupid, or incompetent, or because they smell, or because they make me mad. I mark individual posts as "I disapprove" if I disapprove of them in some way. I confess that I'm not very rigorous about this. I'd guess about 50% of my marks are "approve" and 50% are "disapprove".

I'm not wildly enamoured with the rep system, so I'll be happy to just quit using it if people think I'm misusing it, or if I'm causing unnecessary tension.
Nah. Seems like you're using the rep system in exactly the way that it was meant to be used. I'd say keep going :D

Of course, some people take it far too seriously, and react badly to getting unsigned negative rep. I just ignore it - water off a ducks back. Of course, you can find out who it is if you really want to (if you put the people you think it is on 'ignore', then you can find out who sent you rep (thank you Dianas (ps. I now know who sent me that last negative rep without even a comment, and I will get even :na: ))).

Trampy

Rachel
6th-August-2004, 11:51 AM
I'm not wildly enamoured with the rep system, so I'll be happy to just quit using it if people think I'm misusing it, or if I'm causing unnecessary tension. Of course you're mis-using it. Don't you realise that you're not actually allowed to give any negative reps to anyone on this wonderful luvey community of like-minded people? :wink:

Actually, I think it's very good of you to declare yourself and explain why. I really do firmly think that negative reps shouldn't be anonymous, so it's better when someone says who they are and why they disagree with you.
Rachel

under par
6th-August-2004, 11:58 AM
Of course you're mis-using it. Don't you realise that you're not actually allowed to give any negative reps to anyone on this wonderful luvey community of like-minded people? :wink:

l

Rachel, LOVE PEACE and UNDERSTANDING :yeah:

DianaS
6th-August-2004, 12:16 PM
Of course you're mis-using it. Don't you realise that you're not actually allowed to give any negative reps to anyone on this wonderful luvey community of like-minded people? :wink:

Actually, I think it's very good of you to declare yourself and explain why. I really do firmly think that negative reps shouldn't be anonymous, so it's better when someone says who they are and why they disagree with you.
Rachel
Well I've had negative rep (two - one anonymous the other signed) Both seemed to be saying something that they felt quite passionately about but weren't able to say on the forum. It can a little like pinching someone under the desk and smiling at them, if you say other things to them publically, but then people are strange!

Sparkles
6th-August-2004, 12:25 PM
Rachel, LOVE PEACE and UNDERSTANDING :yeah:

[off topic] Does anyone else wonder if Under Par was a Hippy in a former life?

DianaS
6th-August-2004, 01:41 PM
[off topic] Does anyone else wonder if Under Par was a Hippy in a former life?
If he was he was a happy hippy

Andy McGregor
6th-August-2004, 01:52 PM
That would be me. I dissaprove with posts which take up space with no discernable content. I didn't sign it, because I didn't see my identity as being particularly relevant. If I was someone important, it would be different.

Thank you for clarifying this and giving me the chance to reply/justify - have some positive rep for being a fine upstanding person who sticks to what he thinks :flower:

The post which said 'did I say all that?' was meant to be funny. And I didn't put it in the post above because that post was serious.

So, IMHO, the 'no content' line was wrong. The content was humour - which I was attempting to use in a self-deprecating way.

If people gave bad rep every time a post was considered inane or silly or off-topic they would use up their 10 rep in 24 hour limit within minutes of logging on.

As I said earlier, I think that the rep system is to say you disapprove of the content of a particular post. To give negative rep for a post having nothing to approve or disapprove of is stretching things IMHO - and taking it all too seriously. Or is it me that's doing that :confused: :devil:

Gadget
6th-August-2004, 02:12 PM
If people gave bad rep every time a post was considered inane or silly or off-topic they would use up their 10 rep in 24 hour limit within minutes of logging on.
Unfortunatly not: remember you can only rep the same person after spreading it arround some.

:devil:

Andy McGregor
6th-August-2004, 02:20 PM
Unfortunatly not: remember you can only rep the same person after spreading it arround some.

:devil:

Are you saying there's only one person making inane, silly or off-topic posts? I thought it was most of us :devil:

Dreadful Scathe
6th-August-2004, 04:49 PM
all the regular posters in fact* god help me if people starting negative rep for inane or silly comments :eek:




* except David B perhaps who can stay on topic and still be insightful and funny - and if thats not a luvvie comment i dont know what would be :)



yeah i know David B, close personal friend, does a lotta work for charity

bigdjiver
6th-August-2004, 11:05 PM
I try to attack behaviours, not people. I have given one negative rep, long ago, more concerned with finding out what the buttons do than in my action.
If I am against a particular behaviour I think it is better to say so in the forum so that everybody can see that I am opposed to that behaviour, and can argue the case, in the appropriate place, if they desire. That way we all learn from one another.

Andy McGregor
7th-August-2004, 12:55 PM
I have given one negative rep, long ago, more concerned with finding out what the buttons do than in my action.

Did that negative rep say 'off topic' like your recent post. If it did you gave it to me :tears:


I try to attack behaviours, not people.

I think this is the moderators job. If a post is "off topic" the moderators do a good job of making that decision. Sometimes they split a thread if a new topic has been started but sometimes they leave the odd comment where it is. To make a single comment about a post being 'off topic' is, IMHO, inflammatory and also showing that the author thinks he/she can do the moderators job. Which they do brilliantly btw :flower:

Consider our usual pub example. There's a lively dabate going on in one end of the pub, let's say it's about football. One of the regulars comes in and doesn't join the debate or discuss football, he comes over and says 'I don't like the way you're debating this' or 'you shouldn't make funny asides because they aren't about football'. I think my answer would be 'get a round in, you've got some catching up to do' :devil:


If I am against a particular behaviour I think it is better to say so in the forum so that everybody can see that I am opposed to that behaviour, and can argue the case, in the appropriate place, if they desire. That way we all learn from one another.

I'm in two minds about this one. There is merit in being open. On the other hand, criticising someone's 'behaviour' can cause conflict. IMHO the serious side of this forum is about debating dancing: the more frivilous side is general chit-chat and merry quips :rofl:

Nobody comes onto the forum to have their 'behaviour' attacked or modified. But, speaking personally at least, I have quite happy to have my veiws and opinions attacked and debated. I might put up a robust defence or I might even change my mind: I might not even have made my mind up :really:

I agree that if someone is behaving in an agressive or rude or unacceptable way, in reality or on here, you do need to do something. But, I think the first course of action is to speak to the management, who on the Forum are the moderators.

So, Mr Bigdjiver, please join in the debates, your opinion on many topics is valid and insightful. But, please leave the moderating of behaviour to the moderators.

N.B. To get back on topic. On the subject of giving rep. I think this is about agreement with opinions and paying of compliments or disagreeing with opinions or insults. And, I have one more reason to add why I think we should have the option of staying anonymous - I know at least one person in MJ who has assaulted people for something they've said, would you want to worry about that the next time you went dancing? :tears:

bigdjiver
7th-August-2004, 04:23 PM
Andy: I did not give you a negative rep.

The moderators presumably make decisions based on the mood of the forum. I made my mood known. As for leaving it to the moderator, you also decided that your post was off-topic :devil: :whistle:

I believe that this forum is a major asset to the MJ community, and could be even more so. I have little interest in the chit-chat areas, but other threads contain real gems of wisdom for franchisees and management and the dancer that wants to learn. That usefulness can be seriously eroded by off-topic posting and by ephemeral chat. Of course, in most threads litter is of little consequence.

DianaS
7th-August-2004, 04:52 PM
Just a note
If you think someone has sent you rep (good or bad) and really need to know (to thank them or apologise for what you have done or complain about their language(!)) add the person to your ignore list. If the rep was from them the post will disappear. You can then un-ignore them!

I think this is useful to know because:
1 If someone is being horrid and devious they may sign it with someone else's name to make you think it's from someone else. Yes people who are nasty are also sometimes devious game players.

2 It saves you having to make assumptions and guess. If it troubles you, it is easy to check it out.

3 There are some really lovely good fairies who write really nice comments and never put their name to them, sometimes its nice to catch one and say thank you

I really hope that this doens't spoil the debate about rep, I'm just a little aware that rep really isn't very anonymous at all! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

under par
7th-August-2004, 05:31 PM
I don't really care about the Rep being annonymous or not it is and should be a bit of fun.

This Forum is Fun. :rofl:

I wouldn't bother with the Forum at all if it wasn't as amusing as it is.

I love dancing, I love reading all your posts and have learned loads from them about dance. :drool:

The lighter side of the Forum is the jokes and banter and quips.

If people just remember we only live once, we should all make the most of it, keep debating, keep smiling and carry on enjoying what we all like most our dance and its related activities. That includes the Forum and its rep system. :yeah:


P.S. Good debate BTW.

MartinHarper
7th-August-2004, 06:41 PM
please leave the moderating of behaviour to the moderators.

Well, I disagree. My experience is that the best solution to many problems, including off-topic posts, is for each of us to moderate our own behaviour, trying to be aware of all the consequences of our actions. The second best solution is, as bigdjiver notes, is to talk things over, so we moderate ourselves collectively. Ideally, all this would leave the moderators very little to do. :)


I think [negative rep] is about [...] disagreeing with opinions or insults

Well, according to that, I could mark your post "I disapprove" because I disagree with your opinion on moderation... :) Personally, I don't disapprove of posts just because I disagree with the opinions expresed. Indeed, if they're well-expressed and make me reconsider my own position, so much the better.

Emma
7th-August-2004, 07:40 PM
Erm..I don't think that at any point (and I have had a look ;) )anyone has actually said HOW the rep system should be used, or for what kinds of behaviours/posts it is appropriate :)

My understanding is that it is for each individual to decide how they wish to use it :flower:

Andy McGregor
7th-August-2004, 08:19 PM
Andy: I did not give you a negative rep.

The moderators presumably make decisions based on the mood of the forum. I made my mood known. As for leaving it to the moderator, you also decided that your post was off-topic :devil: :whistle:


I was referring to an anonymous negative rep I received some time ago that repeated bidjiver's words 'off-topic'.

I did know my post was off-topic and said so, also justifying why I had chosen to place it in that thread because it was related to the thread. Rather than the throw-away line, 'off-topic', there was ample opportunity to disagree with my justification. That would have been debate, to make the single statement 'off-topic' adds nothing to the debate and invites conflict.


I believe that this forum is a major asset to the MJ community, and could be even more so. I have little interest in the chit-chat areas, but other threads contain real gems of wisdom for franchisees and management and the dancer that wants to learn. That usefulness can be seriously eroded by off-topic posting and by ephemeral chat. Of course, in most threads litter is of little consequence.

If you don't like chit-chat areas don't read them. However, there's bound to be asides in any converstation and that's what usually keeps the conversational ball rolling. For example, this civilised debate we're having is a spin-off of one of those asides.

Andy McGregor
7th-August-2004, 08:30 PM
Erm..I don't think that at any point (and I have had a look ;) )anyone has actually said HOW the rep system should be used, or for what kinds of behaviours/posts it is appropriate :)

My understanding is that it is for each individual to decide how they wish to use it :flower:

Thanks Emma :flower: I did say 'I think', so I was just expressing my own opinion. I think the rep system is evolving and I was just contributing to that evolution. It's nice to hear what others think too.


Well, I disagree. My experience is that the best solution to many problems, including off-topic posts, is for each of us to moderate our own behaviour, trying to be aware of all the consequences of our actions.

This is, of course, true.

Well, I disagree. My experience is that the best solution to many problems, including off-topic posts, is for each of us to moderate our own behaviour, trying to be aware of all the consequences of our actions. The second best solution is, as bigdjiver notes, is to talk things over, so we moderate ourselves collectively. Ideally, all this would leave the moderators very little to do.

I think that other members moderating each others posts is wrong. The moderators are here to moderate other people's behaviour, we're here to debate the issues and be very silly if we can think of something clever enough. To tell each other that the way we're behaving is wrong as well as our thinking being flawed is likely to cause conflict - you looking at my girlfriend?

..well are you?

..do you feel lucky? :whistle:

p.s. :flower:

Emma
7th-August-2004, 09:42 PM
Thanks Emma :flower: I did say 'I think', so I was just expressing my own opinion. I think the rep system is evolving and I was just contributing to that evolution. It's nice to hear what others think too.
My post wasn't aimed particularly at you Andy :flower: I just felt that as the 'correct way' to use rep seemed to be under debate, it was worth mentioning that no-one has ever made any decree about what that was! :nice:

TheTramp
8th-August-2004, 01:29 PM
Well, I disagree. My experience is that the best solution to many problems, including off-topic posts, is for each of us to moderate our own behaviour, trying to be aware of all the consequences of our actions. The second best solution is, as bigdjiver notes, is to talk things over, so we moderate ourselves collectively. Ideally, all this would leave the moderators very little to do. :)
Well, I disagree with you Martin...

The moderators set the tone of the forum by their actions, and they do it very well indeed :clap:

The trouble with any collective group of people, is that they will all have their own ideas about what is right. Which leads to 'discussion', and may become unpleasant. What's happening so far seems to work fairly well.

Indeed, I'd say that the current majority of posters seem to be reasonably happy with 'conversations' developing, ie, off-topic, humour etc. And maybe, if we were moderating ourselves, the majority would decide that those people who don't go off topic, and don't chip in with humorous asides etc. should start. So, please Martin, the next 3 posts you make, you have to include at least one off-topic comment, and something funny. Thank you.... :flower:

Trampy

MartinHarper
8th-August-2004, 01:56 PM
Oh, of course - I'm not trying to challenge the status quo, just offer an opinion and see what people think.


the next 3 posts you make, you have to include at least one off-topic comment, and something funny.

Does it actually have to be funny, or do I just have to think it's funny? :)

Dreadful Scathe
8th-August-2004, 02:07 PM
Oh, of course - I'm not trying to challenge the status quo, just offer an opinion and see what people think.



Does it actually have to be funny, or do I just have to think it's funny? :)
you only have to think its funny, if you're misunderstood its because they have no sense of humour ;)

I often think im funny and I get negative rep which says im not :D

Andy McGregor
8th-August-2004, 03:33 PM
Does it actually have to be funny, or do I just have to think it's funny? :)

I think you have to think other people will think it's funny - or is that too much thinking? :confused:

DianaS
8th-August-2004, 04:52 PM
Oh, of course - I'm not trying to challenge the status quo, just offer an opinion and see what people think.



Does it actually have to be funny, or do I just have to think it's funny? :)
Hi Martin
[whisper from back stage]
just keep on topic and say nothing funny then people will think that you are being ironic and roll around laughing!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Gordon J Pownall
9th-August-2004, 09:33 AM
Hi Martin
[whisper from back stage]
just keep on topic and say nothing funny then people will think that you are being ironic and roll around laughing!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

What was the first question.......... :confused: :confused: :confused:

Andy McGregor
9th-August-2004, 09:38 AM
What was the first question.......... :confused: :confused: :confused:

Why shouldn't I eat an apple from that tree?

Gordon J Pownall
9th-August-2004, 09:59 AM
Why shouldn't I eat an apple from that tree?

:rofl: :worthy: :rofl: :worthy: :rofl:

Sparkles
9th-August-2004, 07:47 PM
This is what I hate about anonymous reps - someone said someting really lovely and I have no idea who it was :sad:
Thank you, whoever you are :flower:
S. x

Bardsey
10th-August-2004, 11:02 AM
Why shouldn't I eat an apple from that tree?


:rofl: :clap: Take note, Martin, take note! :worthy:

Sheepman
10th-August-2004, 01:49 PM
someone said someting really lovely and I have no idea who it was It wasn't me :wink:
But it's a good point, I think it is more frustrating when someone says something nice and you don't know who they are, than if it's nasty.

Maybe if I was getting pages of negative rep I'd feel differently (No, please don't use that as an excuse!!) Here's an idea, there must be examples where a positive rep is due, but you want to say something nasty with it!

Oh no, that's an old idea, Will's already been there! :wink:

Greg

Sparkles
10th-August-2004, 03:23 PM
It wasn't me :wink:

Damn.


But it's a good point, I think it is more frustrating when someone says something nice and you don't know who they are, than if it's nasty.

No-one's owned up. :sad:
Oh well, :hug: s & :kiss: es to everyone!

DianaS
10th-August-2004, 08:57 PM
Damn.



No-one's owned up. :sad:
Oh well, :hug: s & :kiss: es to everyone!
it was me, its was me, honest!...
...Well it wasn't actually, but I wish that I had, so I'll give you some now, 'cas you share! :cheers: