The best music for modern jive?

[jivecat]

* Some tracks are just so good (though unfortunately rarely played) that they take over and not a foot appears to go wrong - a bit like driving after a skinful, the engine so silky smooth, the gear changes so slick, the corners poetry in motion....... May not look pretty, but it feels great!


This quote sums up a feeling that I've had more and more as I get more experience of modern jive. It seems to me that the music is crucial to the enjoyment of Ceroc yet much gets played that is either mediocre, or in some cases, downright unsuitable for dancing to. For me, a basic test of danceability is if the track makes me feel like moving as soon as I hear it, and some, quite frankly don't, not even tapping my foot. If you take a look across the dance floor while such music is being played then there are usually a number of couples shambling about in a lacklustre fashion, looking awkward. Usually beginners who haven't got to the stage of hearing the music yet and are wondering why it's all so difficult.

It has always puzzled me why DJs play tracks like these. I realise that musical taste is subjective and that a broad range of music has to be played to cater to all comers. But why don't DJs choose the best/most suitable tracks out of each category? For example, at the venue I was at last night a lot of chart/pop music of the featureless, relentless, thump, thump, thump type was played (completely boring and exhausting to dance to) when there are a number of tracks which pass the test of being popular, contemporary, and extremely danceable which could have been chosen instead.

Sometimes DJs have told me they have to play music with a pronounced and uncomplicated beat because beginners like them. Is this true? I'm sure this must have been done on the forum before, but perhaps we could hear about tracks that people feel make them dance brilliantly/badly. And whether it changes as your dance career progresses. When I first started dancing I used to like Sophie Ellis Bextor's Why does it feel so good. That rarely gets played now, probably a good thing! The kind of music that gets me leaping to my feet in search of a partner these days would be Eva Cassidy's Wade in the Water (never gets played) or a version of Fever. Or a track called Shake that Bag which the Daventry DJ sometimes plays. I find it difficult to keep still when I hear music like this which brings me to






Yesterday, prancing round to loud sounds as I carried out my kitchen chores (one of the dubious joys of living alone), I discovered the Salsa wiggle.

I do exactly the same thing, Whitebeard, except I favour the dining room (more space). So, what sends your pranceometer off the scale?


I wanted to start a new thread with this but I'm not sure how to do it, so I've just guessed. If it hasn't worked, please someone, tell me what to do!

[under par]

For me, a basic test of danceability is if the track makes me feel like moving as soon as I hear it, and some, quite frankly don't, not even tapping my foot.


The kind of music that gets me leaping to my feet in search of a partner these days would be Eva Cassidy's Wade in the Water (never gets played) or a version of Fever. Or a track called Shake that Bag which the Daventry DJ sometimes plays. I find it difficult to keep still when I hear music like this which brings me



Music is certainly the key ingredient to a fantastic night of dancing. :yeah:

It is so true to say that when the DJ plays the right set you hear the first chord of a track and you are up and looking for a partner before you can recall what the name of the track is!

To me the indication of a fantastic set by a DJ is when I have trouble getting back to the table to towell down because I DO NOT WANT TO LEAVE THE FLOOR. :yeah: :worthy:

I sometimes grab a dance partner then run off whilst apologising for 10 second delay for a rub down. :eek: :whistle:

[DavidB]

It seems to me that the music is crucial to the enjoyment of Ceroc yet much gets played that is either mediocre, or in some cases, downright unsuitable for dancing to.I'd disagree with this. Although you have every right to give your opinion on a track, you can't assume other people agree. Liking a track does not make it a good track for everyone else. And disliking a track does not make it a bad track. It only means that you like or dislike it. You have to take other people's opinion into account - you can't do Modern Jive by yourself.

It is natural if you like a song that you will try harder to dance to it, and probably enjoy it more. If you don't like it, you might not bother as much. But I can virtually guarantee that every song played will be liked by someone at a venue, and that someone might just be your partner.

I rarely hear a track at a Ceroc night that is actually unsuitable for dancing. (There are some non-Ceroc venues that are far more likely to play something that you can't do Modern Jive to - but this is precisely why some people go, to find out just how far you can take to dance.)

If you can write music that everyone likes, then I'll give up work today and be your agent.


at the venue I was at last night a lot of chart/pop music of the featureless, relentless, thump, thump, thump type was played (completely boring and exhausting to dance to)I've yet to hear a track that I've managed to dance to perfectly - ie interpreting every single note, highlight, lyric etc. I'm lucky if I use 5% of what is available.

A beginner might say "How can you dance to that - the music kept stopping", whereas an intermediate dancer might say "great - a few breaks to play around with". A different song might have an intermediate saying "how can you interpret that - it had no breaks", and the advanced dancer goes "ok - so what else is there in the music I can use".

As one judge in the US said to one of the top competitors *before* they started winning: "describing music as boring shows the limitation of the dancer, not the musician/DJ."

But saying that music was not to your taste is entirely your choice, and no-one can tell you otherwise.

[Sparkles]

But saying that music was not to your taste is entirely your choice, and no-one can tell you otherwise.

:yeah:
I've heard people complaining about a track on one side of a dance floor while others are smiling and dripping wet from their exuberance at dancing to it on the other side.
Maybe rather than complaining about a certain track it might be more productive to request a track you do like of the DJ? After all, they’re human beings, not mind-readers…

[Andy McGregor]

The best music is the track that's being played. You need to dance to it, you need to find something in it to love. You might need to fake that love. But, it's the only music you've got and you've got to make the best of it :clap:

Having said that, I think there's no place for Rock 'n' Roll music at a Modern Jive night the four/four beat doesn't do it for me, it's too fast to MJ to - you need to R&R to it - which means you're at the wrong night because you're not doing MJ.

Having said that, I quite like R&R, I just can't find a R&R partner when the track starts and usually end up hiding outside with the smokers in case someone asks me to MJ to the, totally unsuitable for MJ, R&R track:tears:

[Banana Man]

Maybe rather than complaining about a certain track it might be more productive to request a track you do like of the DJ? After all, they’re human beings, not mind-readers…
:yeah:


[From a different thread - Requests vs DJs Own Selection]
So rather than requests, I prefer to get feedback on whether people enjoyed the music. Ultimately, if we're doing the business as DJ's, people won't have time to come and make requests, they'll be too busy dancing their socks off on the dance floor.
:yeah:

Get to know your DJs, they are human, and they are all different. TWK - wouldn't dream of asking for anything - excellent set at Twyford Fri before last and at TJive one before last, don't know half the stuff but it sure is good to dance to. Other places, other DJs - I'm more than happy to ask, if it gets played and it fits the rest of the set, all the better, if it gets worked in to the following week that's cool. Although it's great to be on the dance floor all the time, you do have to stop for a towel occasionally and it's great to watch what people do to songs that you don't want to or can't dance to -each to his own.


It is natural if you like a song that you will try harder to dance to it, and probably enjoy it more. If you don't like it, you might not bother as much. But I can virtually guarantee that every song played will be liked by someone at a venue, and that someone might just be your partner.
It seems to me that the music is crucial to the enjoyment of Ceroc yet much gets played that is either mediocre, or in some cases, downright unsuitable for dancing to.

If someone out there is dancing and having a good time then IMHO it's a good song.

And when it's a song that you and your partner both like, then it really starts to happen. :D :clap:

[Dance Demon]

Having said that, I think there's no place for Rock 'n' Roll music at a Modern Jive night the four/four beat doesn't do it for me, it's too fast to MJ to - you need to R&R to it - which means you're at the wrong night because you're not doing MJ.


That's a pretty big generalisation Andy. When I first started dancing just over 5 years ago, there was quite a lot of Rock 'n' Roll music being played. In fact the Chistine Keeble Learn To Jive video demonstrated all the moves to R 'n'R music played by the Firebirds. Rock 'n' roll covers various different styles. At Route 66 where we have a lotof, if not mostly all Modern Jivers, I play some Doo Wop, and Roots R'n'B stuff(Joe Turner, ruth Brown etc ) and the punters love it. Not all Rock 'n' Roll is fast, and lots of it is really great to MJ to..... :)
Your statement could be used against other types of music...eg Latin Music. Quite a lot of people struggle with latin style beats, but more and more latin music is being played at MJ nights, and if you are doing latin steps then you are at the wrong night because you're not doing MJ...... :wink:

[Andy McGregor]

That's a pretty big generalisation Andy.

Of course it was a generalisation. It was meant to get a response - thank you DD :flower:

But, on a more specific note, there are many R&R tracks played at MJ nights that are just too fast. You could MJ to them, but why would you put yourself through it? You've either got to do some mental arithmetic to find a slower beat or you've got to dance like you're caught in the blades of a whirling combine harvester. What I want to know is, why did the DJ choose that too fast R&R track from the thousands of suitable-for-MJ tracks that are out there - including suitable R&R :confused:

I've been to many nights where they've played the too fast R&R tracks and, when I've looked out over the dance floor I haven't seen one couple that're on the beat. Can't the DJ spot that and take the offending track off his play list? A while ago I visited a night for the first time: I was dancing to a R&R track and most people were sitting it out (there was a lot of R&R that night). I noticed that none of the other 3 couples was on the beat so I asked my partner why the DJ was playing fast R&R - she told me the regulars like listening to that kind of music :tears:

But, I agree with DD too. There are plenty of slower R&R tracks that are perfectly MJable - it's just that some DJs seem to want to play the too, too fast ones - maybe they like listening to this kind of music :wink:

[spindr]

But, on a more specific note, there are many R&R tracks played at MJ nights that are just too fast.

Nah, you're just getting old Andy :devil:

There's a definite technique for MJ'ing to R&R music -- you don't have time to do many dips/drops and probably moves with a lot of intricate arm movements, eg. pretzels *may* not fit well. But American spins, Returns, First Moves, etc. will work well -- and some hatchback combinations are good -- as are jumps.

So, I agree you can't do *all* MJ moves very easily to R&R music, but then you can't do *all* MJ moves very easily to slow music -- there's no way you can slow jumps down enough :)

Why put yourself though it -- well, some of us like to break a sweat at dances -- and a lot of the slower tunes don't do that (maybe they do for you :) ).

SpinDr.
P.S. I'd have thought you'd have been in favour of fast tunes Andy, might weed out all the unfit smokers?

[Andy McGregor]

Nah, you're just getting old Andy :devil:


True :tears:


There's a definite technique for MJ'ing to R&R music

But why do that when there's a definite dance designed for R&R music? It's called Rock & Roll - which gives a clear indication of the dance we should be doing :confused:



P.S. I'd have thought you'd have been in favour of fast tunes Andy, might weed out all the unfit smokers?

I've got no objection to smokers, unfit or otherwise: my objection is to smoking next to the dance floor.

On that subject I have a new dilemma. I've been invited to Ashtons for Chicadee and Lory's birthdays but it's a smoking venue so I'm being torn in two directions. Breathe smoke and risk shortening my life but spend a night frolicking in a bath of lime flavoured jelly with two lovely women - or go dancing in Hove.

I suppose I could hold my breath...

[spindr]

True :tears:

Nah, you're only as old as the woman you... ...dress up as!


But why do that when there's a definite dance designed for R&R music? It's called Rock & Roll - which gives a clear indication of the dance we should be doing :confused:

Then I look forward to seeing your Lindy Hop / ECS / WCS whenever JB, LL, or whoever plays any swing track?

SpinDr.

[Andy McGregor]

Then I look forward to seeing your Lindy Hop / ECS / WCS whenever JB, LL, or whoever plays any swing track?

SpinDr.

I've done classes and workshops in them all, plus R&R (did a class last week!), salsa, ballroom, latin, Argentine Tango, etc, etc - but I don't get any practice and soon forget everything:tears: And, as a dedicated MJer at a MJ night I expect to be doing that dance and would have trouble finding a partner for a different dance in such company.

[jivecat]

I'd disagree with this. Although you have every right to give your opinion on a track, you can't assume other people agree. Liking a track does not make it a good track for everyone else.

Yes I know- but as music is something that people tend to have strong views on I thought I'd like to hear more about the range of those views.


But I can virtually guarantee that every song played will be liked by someone at a venue, and that someone might just be your partner.

I danced with someone recently to the track called, probably, "I think you're amazing" which I'd always felt to be a bit bland. As the dance finished he said "I really love that track" which surprised me but has meant that I listen to it more closely now to try to see what it is that appealed to him. Which hasn't done me any harm!



I rarely hear a track at a Ceroc night that is actually unsuitable for dancing.

But it shouldn't ever happen. The point I was trying to make is that there is such a huge volume of excellent music of all types produced that only the best or most suitable of each genre need be played. But it is interesting to hear examples (like Andy Mc G) of genres/tracks that people personally find unsuitable.




A beginner might say "How can you dance to that - the music kept stopping", whereas an intermediate dancer might say "great - a few breaks to play around with". A different song might have an intermediate saying "how can you interpret that - it had no breaks", and the advanced dancer goes "ok - so what else is there in the music I can use".

...... "describing music as boring shows the limitation of the dancer, not the musician/DJ."


I think this is an excellent point. I am aware of how much my taste has changed during the few years I have been dancing and the more I learn the more I realise my limitations. But I would be very interested to hear more about what people at different levels of ability make of different songs.

I understand that an advanced dancer might hear more to respond to in an average song- but wouldn't they still prefer to dance to what they consider an above average song?

I think I need to amend my negative attitudes to DJs! Sorry, chaps and chapesses. I guess you're a bit unapproachable up there behind all that equipment- except for DJ Di of course! I'll try harder.

[DangerousCurves]

Music is certainly the key ingredient to a fantastic night of dancing. :yeah:

I sometimes grab a dance partner then run off whilst apologising for 10 second delay for a rub down. :eek: :whistle:


And sometimes, like last Monday at Mikey's, A wanton hussy grabs you and drags you onto the floor, without even letting you towel down or change....

....wonder who that could have been :whistle:

[Andy McGregor]

I understand that an advanced dancer might hear more to respond to in an average song- but wouldn't they still prefer to dance to what they consider an above average song?

I agree with this. I think that some DJs put on a track that will do the job and no more: right BPM and right volume. Other DJs like Toby will spend ages crafting the night, finding interesting tracks and giving the playing order a lot of thought too. I've been doing a bit of DJing this year and it's much harder than I thought - I think those top DJs like JB that make it look easy deserve out respect :worthy:

Just recently I've been finding stuff in familiar tracks that I hadn't thought to dance to. There are bits in the music that you can sort of chew on, like the raisins and nuts in Fruit and Nut chocolate. When my partner realises what I'm doing they're quite impressed. But, more often than not, they don't realise what I'm doing and look at me like I'm mad - although that's how I'm usually looked at so it's hard to tell the difference :tears:

I've been trying to be different instruments as well, not just the vocal. I find this is much easier to familiar tracks but there must be a musical formula because you can find the 'chewy bits' in tracks you've never heard before. Am I making any sense? :confused:

[Andy McGregor]

And sometimes, like last Monday at Mikey's, A wanton hussy grabs you and drags you onto the floor, without even letting you towel down or change....


Maybe we could invent a "Dance of the seven towels" :devil:

[DavidY]

I danced with someone recently to the track called, probably, "I think you're amazing" which I'd always felt to be a bit bland. As the dance finished he said "I really love that track" which surprised me but has meant that I listen to it more closely now to try to see what it is that appealed to him. Which hasn't done me any harm!I think there are some musically interesting bits in that track (George Michael I believe). Especially some interesting rythmns which are not just straight 1-2-3-4 beats.

I just wish I knew how to interpret them when dancing ... :blush:

[spindr]

I've done classes and workshops in them all, plus R&R (did a class last week!), salsa, ballroom, latin, Argentine Tango, etc, etc - but I don't get any practice and soon forget everything:tears: And, as a dedicated MJer at a MJ night I expect to be doing that dance and would have trouble finding a partner for a different dance in such company.

That's fine -- you like MJ'ing to "the wrong music" i.e. swing, etc.
I like MJ'ing to "the wrong music"-- just happens in my case to be the occasional R&R tune :)

I've no problem if the DJ plays music you like -- just don't tell 'em not to play music that other people like MJ'ing to :) Personally, I cringe at most 1970's tracks, but I wouldn't ever suggest it wasn't played, 'cause somebody must like 'em.

SpinDr.

[Andy McGregor]

I've no problem if the DJ plays music you like -- just don't tell 'em not to play music that other people like MJ'ing to :)

The only time I've made requests is when a local DJ, who is usually fab, started promoting requests. I used to love his choice in music: since playing requests he's become, IMHO, an average DJ. I've been giving him lists of tracks he used to play and telling him they're requests. I've also told him I preferred it when he chose most of the music.


Personally, I cringe at most 1970's tracks, but I wouldn't ever suggest it wasn't played, 'cause somebody must like 'em.

SpinDr.

I think you're just remembering the clothes and hairstyles, I was there :tears:

[Whitebeard]

I do exactly the same thing, Whitebeard, except I favour the dining room (more space). So, what sends your pranceometer off the scale.



You nearly foxed me moving your comments to a new thread Jivecat!

When I mentioned the music taking over there was one particular occasion in mind. I'd gone outside to take the fresh air (not to mention immediately polluting it with one my miniature cigars) when involuntary body movements alerted me that a new dance had commenced within and I really wanted to be part of it. Casting aside the glowing brown, stub I was drawn back inside by a mixture of desire and anxiety. I wanted to, but could I? However, it seemed I needn't have worried, the floor was full and I couldn't see an available partner. I sat down at the large table, now empty, to watch and learn and yearn.

Then, a gentle hand on the shoulder, "Would you like to Rock and Roll?" Panic gripped as we weaved a way to a likely slot and turned to face. She was new to me, not a regular attender, an unknown quantity. But then, after a few hesitant shufflings, that darned music took over and we were away. For once, I just didn't have time to worry what the next move would be, and as far as I can remember, mostly went into a series of swap ends moves .... Cross Overs, Shoulder Slides, Man Spins, all with travelling returns, together with at least one Octopus; also Baskets and First Moves that were more flingy than usual. All the while my new partner was shrieking "whee ... eee..." as we flew past each other. Was it exhilaration or shear terror? ...,. I don't know.

Nor do I remember what that track was ... a rare blast from the past that drew an instinctive response. And left me absolutely kn.....ed.

In general though, (as befits a rather elderly gent), I tend to favour music with a rather slower tempo and a nice smoothly swingy feel that does little to encourage all that bobbing. Yup, I like your Eva Cassidy number which is still played around here. Apart from 'Fever' I don't know the others you mention but will track them down. 'Beyond the Sea' (George Benson version I think), and 'Fly me to the Moon' (Bobby Darin?) come up quite regularly. Michael Buble covers many similar classics and impresses me. First heard 'Precious Time', on the radio and that really set me smooching round the kitchen and I've added that and some other Van Morrison MP3 tracks to my Media Player 'Danceables' playlist. The computer's hooked up to my Hi Fi system and its nice big speakers capable of disco levels. Sadly, I haven't heard these latter tracks at my local venues. In fact, I don't recognise at least 90% of what is played. All are danceable I guess, but most just don't inspire.

[jivecat]

I think that some DJs put on a track that will do the job and no more: right BPM and right volume. Other DJs like Toby will spend ages crafting the night, finding interesting tracks and giving the playing order a lot of thought too. I've been doing a bit of DJing this year and it's much harder than I thought - I think those top DJs like JB that make it look easy deserve out respect :worthy:



Do you think it makes a difference if the DJ is him/herself a dancer? As I gather not all are.

The playing order is an interesting point. I like the evening to end on a high note, with a fairly fast track, perhaps a Ceroc classic like Shebangs (it can't really be called that?) and feel really cheated if it ends with some wishy-washy wallpapery type track. But I have been told that DJs sometimes choose those tracks as a cooldown for the end of the evening. What do other people think?

[jivecat]

What I want to know is, why did the DJ choose that too fast R&R track from the thousands of suitable-for-MJ tracks that are out there - including suitable R&R :confused:
:yeah:


Can't the DJ spot that {people off the beat}and take the offending track off his play list?

Well, I've always thought this. That's why I wondered how many DJs are also dancers.



A while ago I visited a night for the first time: I was dancing to a R&R track and most people were sitting it out (there was a lot of R&R that night). I noticed that none of the other 3 couples was on the beat so I asked my partner why the DJ was playing fast R&R - she told me the regulars like listening to that kind of music :tears:

You mean people come to MJ nights just to listen? But I could do that at home!

[jivecat]

I think there are some musically interesting bits in that track (George Michael I believe). Especially some interesting rythmns which are not just straight 1-2-3-4 beats.




Point these out to me next time I see you!

[jivecat]

When I mentioned the music taking over there was one particular occasion in mind. I'd gone outside to take the fresh air (not to mention immediately polluting it with one my miniature cigars) when involuntary body movements alerted me that a new dance had commenced within and I really wanted to be part of it. Casting aside the glowing brown, stub I was drawn back inside by a mixture of desire and anxiety. I wanted to, but could I? However, it seemed I needn't have worried, the floor was full and I couldn't see an available partner. I sat down at the large table, now empty, to watch and learn and yearn.

Then, a gentle hand on the shoulder, "Would you like to Rock and Roll?" Panic gripped as we weaved a way to a likely slot and turned to face. She was new to me, not a regular attender, an unknown quantity. But then, after a few hesitant shufflings, that darned music took over and we were away. For once, I just didn't have time to worry what the next move would be, and as far as I can remember, mostly went into a series of swap ends moves .... Cross Overs, Shoulder Slides, Man Spins, all with travelling returns, together with at least one Octopus; also Baskets and First Moves that were more flingy than usual. All the while my new partner was shrieking "whee ... eee..." as we flew past each other. Was it exhilaration or shear terror? ...,. I don't know.

Nor do I remember what that track was ... a rare blast from the past that drew an instinctive response. And left me absolutely kn.....ed.
Great description!



In general though, (as befits a rather elderly gent), I tend to favour music with a rather slower tempo and a nice smoothly swingy feel that does little to encourage all that bobbing. Yup, I like your Eva Cassidy number which is still played around here. Apart from 'Fever' I don't know the others you mention but will track them down. 'Beyond the Sea' (George Benson version I think), and 'Fly me to the Moon' (Bobby Darin?) come up quite regularly. Michael Buble covers many similar classics and impresses me. First heard 'Precious Time', on the radio and that really set me smooching round the kitchen and I've added that and some other Van Morrison MP3 tracks to my Media Player 'Danceables' playlist. The computer's hooked up to my Hi Fi system and its nice big speakers capable of disco levels. Sadly, I haven't heard these latter tracks at my local venues.

Yes, I had noticed in myself a certain predilection for slower tracks. I'm sure it's nothing to do with age. :tears: I really enjoy the kind of music that Michael Buble covers, but feel that the original is usually better. "Sway", comes to mind as a particularly enjoyable dance track, it even tells you what to do!
Now, Van Morrison. Yes, yes and yes again. I've been a big fan of his for many years. Oh dear, is this what you mean by 70s tracks, Spindr? So it was great to find out how brilliant some of his tracks are for MJiving to.

[spindr]

Now, Van Morrison. Yes, yes and yes again. I've been a big fan of his for many years. Oh dear, is this what you mean by 70s tracks, Spindr?

Nah, I was thinking more about "D-I-S-C-O" and the more MJ'able "At the carwash".

Just a personal preference for tracks from say Louis Jordan up to about Buddy Holly / Ritchie Valens / Big Bopper and then from Def Leppard to the present.

Hmmm, can't remember the last time I heard Louis Jordan / Buddy Holly / Ritchie Valens / Big Bopper / Def Leppard at a MJ event -- and yes you can dance to "Animal" :)

SpinDr.

[Andy McGregor]

Now, Van Morrison. Yes, yes and yes again. I've been a big fan of his for many years. Oh dear, is this what you mean by 70s tracks, Spindr? So it was great to find out how brilliant some of his tracks are for MJiving to.

Of course those of us that were there in the '70s need to dance in 6" platform shoes to get the authentic '70s feel :sick:


Yes, I had noticed in myself a certain predilection for slower tracks. I'm sure it's nothing to do with age. I really enjoy the kind of music that Michael Buble covers, but feel that the original is usually better. "Sway", comes to mind as a particularly enjoyable dance track, it even tells you what to do!

Another CD I've found recently which is in the same vein as Michael Buble with plenty of slower tracks is the Pop Idol Big Band Album.

[mick]

Try "Some Girls" Rachel Stevens
If that's no good try lindy hop instead

Mick

[Whitebeard]

Try "Some Girls" Rachel Stevens

If that's no good try lindy hop instead

Mick

Oh Gawd!! I can just picture them bouncing and hand beating to that one. Does nothing for me. How tastes vary .... they tell me I don't look my age, are they lying through their back teeth?!!

I think going back to Ballroom would be more logical, dont you?

[mick]

Some music which seems pretty dire to listen to (Kylie?) is perfect for modern jive. I never dreamt I'd enjoy S Club, but I now find some of their stuff very danceable, none more than "Some Girls" which when I first heard it on tv I thought was rubbish then at Wetherby Engine Shed I danced to it and thought it was excellent.
Why people who choose mj music persist in playing rock n roll speed stuff is beyond me. Maybe they are just thick!
If anybody wants to dance rock n roll, or lindy or anything else, why do they go to mj?

[Andy McGregor]

Some music which seems pretty dire to listen to (Kylie?) is perfect for modern jive. I never dreamt I'd enjoy S Club, but I now find some of their stuff very danceable,

:yeah:

A man after my own heart :clap: I thought Kylie and S Club were just bubble-gum pop (I suppose I still do), but I think they're both fabulous to dance to. I've now got most of Kylies music and at least 7 cds of Kylie remixes. There's an elusive big-band remix of Better the Devil You Know that Eric played at the Ceroc champs that I'm trying to get and have been looking for everywhere - please help, I'm a Kylie addict :wink:

..steps anyone? :innocent:

[Dance Demon]

Why people who choose mj music persist in playing rock n roll speed stuff is beyond me. Maybe they are just thick!
If anybody wants to dance rock n roll, or lindy or anything else, why do they go to mj?

Maybe they play it because some people like it Mick....just like they play the Mavericks or LAX, because some people like that too. Most MJ DJs try to play a mix that suits everyone. Of course if you can't dance to the faster stuff, you might feel aggrieved that you have to sit a record out....then again there are lots of people who CAN dance to it without resorting to doing Lindy Hop
:wink:

[Gadget]

.steps anyone? :innocent:
...speak to Lou :wink: :rofl:

[mick]

Maybe they play it because some people like it Mick....just like they play the Mavericks or LAX, because some people like that too. Most MJ DJs try to play a mix that suits everyone. Of course if you can't dance to the faster stuff, you might feel aggrieved that you have to sit a record out....then again there are lots of people who CAN dance to it without resorting to doing Lindy Hop
:wink:
Ooh, ducky!
Whether I can or can not dance to rock n roll, lindy, tango, polka or anything else is irrelevant. If I pay good cash to go to modern jive, that is what I expect to be played.

[Dance Demon]

Ooh, ducky!
Whether I can or can not dance to rock n roll, lindy, tango, polka or anything else is irrelevant. If I pay good cash to go to modern jive, that is what I expect to be played.

Ain't it funny how we've just had a whole new influx of forum members who feel they have to be smart or try to stir up controversy with their first few posts..
:confused: ..........If you want to dance purely to chart music, then maybe you should go to the school disco along with all the other children...... :na:

[TheTramp]

So. Will you please define just what is 'modern jive' music then please Mick.

Of course, as already stated numerous other times. What you consider to be the right music, will put off the next person to you. While the person over the other side of the hall likes some of the tracks you like, and doesn't like others. And some people will want more swing and less latin stuff. And other people will like latin stuff and pop stuff, but will hate swing stuff. And some people will like fast tracks. And some people will like slow tracks. And some people will like challenging tracks. And other people won't.

Being a DJ is hard work, and needs a very thick skin. The best you can do, is please as many people for as much of the time as possible. You'll never please everyone all the time. Most people don't dance every track of a night (just the insane ones like me!!). If you don't like a track, take the chance to have a rest, get a drink, change your shirt, change someone elses shirt, whatever. If the DJ is doing a good job, then the music will change (variety is the spice of life) soon enough, and you can get back to dancing.

I'm a fan of Dance Demon's music (to randomly pick on a DJ, just cos he posted just above me). I didn't like all the tracks that he played, when I went to his venue last Friday night. But I still had a great night :D

Trampy

[Dance Demon]

I didn't like all the tracks that he played, when I went to his venue last Friday night.
Trampy
:tears: :tears: :tears: ............. :rofl:

[Sparkles]

If you don't like a track, take the chance to have a rest, get a drink, change your shirt, change someone elses shirt...

I'd like to volunteer to be helper for shirt changing purposes to all my favourite male dancers... :D (no sweaty pits though, please ;) )

[mick]

So. Will you please define just what is 'modern jive' music then please Mick.
Being a DJ is hard work, and needs a very thick skin.
Trampy
Well lets say 4/4 time, tempo about 120-150bpm
If u cant stand the heat, keep off the mixer
and where is that demon guy's cool?

[Dance Demon]

If u cant stand the heat, keep off the mixer
and where is that demon guy's cool?


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:.........keep takin' the tablets .

[TheTramp]

120-150bpm??

How boring. And what about all those tracks that aren't in that range.

Often played modern jive tracks such as Smooth (115), Mustang Sally (115), Shut Up (113), Fire (112), Superstar (109) - or at the other end of the scale, Soul Bossa Nova (154), Boogie Woogie Choo Choo Train (160), Safronia B (155) etc.

See, off the top of my head, tracks that I bet you'd like to dance to (and if you don't, there are plenty of people who will) that are outside your 'range'. While I'll agree that 120-150bpm is the usual sort of speed for most tracks on any given modern jive night, to strictly limit oneself to that range, will mean missing out on some great tracks to dance to.

And, as I said, if you don't like those tracks, then have a break. I bet there's plenty of tracks within your given bpm range that you don't like dancing to either. It all comes down to personal choice - and the DJ has to take into account everyone's personal choice. Not just yours...!!

Trampy

[mick]

120-150bpm??

How boring. And what about all those tracks that aren't in that range.

Often played modern jive tracks such as Smooth (115), Mustang Sally (115), Shut Up (113), Fire (112), Superstar (109) - or at the other end of the scale, Soul Bossa Nova (154), Boogie Woogie Choo Choo Train (160), Safronia B (155) etc.

Trampy

fair 'nuf, but rock n roll is more like 180+

[TheTramp]

You mean tracks like Return to Sender (131), This old heart of mine (131), Wipe out (150), Shake Rattle & Roll (152), Runaround Sue (159), Let's twist again (162)??

Even Johnny B Goode is only 174.

Compare that with Straight to Number One (original mix), which we were made to dance to last weekend at the LeRoc 2000 Modern Jive competition (final, Open section) - which is 188bpm. Now, that was fast :D

Trampy

[DavidB]

If I pay good cash to go to modern jive, that is what I expect to be played.The only way to get the music you want played is to run your own night. Then you can tell the DJ what to play. That I believe is what Dance Demon does. Others have also run similar nights with a distinctive music policy - eg Amir Giles in London. Not many are successful. Those that are work because enough people like one type of music.


Well lets say 4/4 timeWhat music that gets played at MJ doesn't have 4 beats to the bar? (other than the break in Sugababes' 'Round Round') I have to admit I'd get a bit fed up of trying to dance MJ to waltz or Dave Brubeck all night.


and where is that demon guy's cool?I take it you have never met him then?

[Gus]

Well lets say 4/4 time, tempo about 120-150bpm
If u cant stand the heat, keep off the mixer
and where is that demon guy's cool?

Hmmmm .... I would say that the music that DD plays isn't really my cup of tea .... I really prefer 'modern' Modern Jive, Sonqiue, Artful Dodger. David Guetta etc. .... BUT, Dance Demon is a superb MJ DJ :worthy: ..... although its not my kind of music even I can apprecaite the quality of the tracks he slams out and I would have him back on the decks at my venue anytime ... and there are VERY FEW DJs I would say that about.

MJ Music ... many paths to the same destination :waycool:

[Dance Demon]

Yep, Gus has a point. I do have a preference for Blues/swing/rock'n'Roll......and that's why i started Route 66 ....however i do also play for more MJ orientated nights too. I am DJing for Scot at Marcos in Edinburgh for the first 2 weeks in August, including the pre comp party night at Musselburgh, and I will lbe playing a very mixed set, aimed at the MJ crowd with a bit of blues etc thrown in. I am also DJing for Franck at Glasgow for two Wednesdays. If I didn't enjoy the more modern music, i wouldn't have been going to Ceroc venues for the last 5 years.
Everyone has their preference on music genres, but it would be unfair to force it on eveyone all night at a MJ venue.

[Andy McGregor]

Soul Bossa Nova (154), Boogie Woogie Choo Choo Train (160),

Me and Mr Powers love the former but the latter is too fast: especially when played as the second fast track in the Old Gits at Hammersmith :tears:

[Daisy Chain]

:yeah:

..steps anyone? :innocent:

5,6,7,8...

[mick]

You mean tracks like Return to Sender (131), This old heart of mine (131), Wipe out (150), Shake Rattle & Roll (152), Runaround Sue (159), Let's twist again (162)??

Even Johnny B Goode is only 174.

Trampy
I guess some of you guys just need a music history lesson. Johnny B Goode is rhythm and blues; Lets Twist Again is a dance, not surprisingly, called The Twist.
A typical rock and roll song that teddy boys used to dance to is Rock Around The Clock, which you could call jive (as opposed to modern jive!).

[Lou]

5,6,7,8...
:yeah: :cheers: :clap: :flower: :blush:

[MartinHarper]

Lets Twist Again is a dance, not surprisingly, called The Twist.

"Lets Twist Again" is a song, not a dance. It introduced the Twist, which is a dance, not a musical genre.

Pearson Education (http://www.sbgmusic.com/html/teacher/reference/historical/1960s.html) thinks "Let's Twist Again" is a rock and roll song, but they could be wrong. What musical genre would you say it belonged to?

[mick]

While I'm on the subject, anyone still unsure check out this site I just found on a search:
http://www.howtojive.com/teachers-running-club.htm

Also, something that repeatedly amazes me; an intermediate class with some nice say latin type moves. Then soon as the class is over, the dj will play some totally inappropriate track, often much too fast; I'd better not say rock n roll as criticism of this seems offensive to some people.

Finally, last nite I saw a ceroc taxi dancer and his T-shirt said something about salsa. Now salsa runs at perhaps 100bpm. Try doing salsa at anything even like 120bpm. I'm almost tempted to use one of those icons that seem popular with the linguistically challenged.

[TheTramp]

I guess some of you guys just need a music history lesson. Johnny B Goode is rhythm and blues; Lets Twist Again is a dance, not surprisingly, called The Twist.
A typical rock and roll song that teddy boys used to dance to is Rock Around The Clock, which you could call jive (as opposed to modern jive!).

Ah well then. I'll consider myself told. While you're at it, you might want to tell all of these musical sites (which I found in 0.2 seconds on a quick google search entitled "genre Johnny B Goode"), who seem to also think that it's Rock and Roll....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/soldonsong/songlibrary/johnnybgoode.shtml
http://wippit.com/DetailItem.aspx?StrItemID=3421&StrMediaID=457494&StrMediaType=S
http://www.nyrock.com/worldbeat/12_2000/120100.asp

(These were taken from the first 10 listed sites of 3620 found - I couldn't be bothered to go onto the next page. It was also classified as Pop/Rock, Electronic, Oldies, and 50's. To be fair, Kelkoo did list it as Rhythm and Blues - obviously they are from the 'Mick' school of thinking).

I particularly liked this quote I found on the Nyrock site: "Ironically, the song which many consider the "national anthem of rock 'n' roll" – "Johnny B. Goode".

On a similar search for "Lets Twist Again", out of the first 10 sites, 3 classified it as "Oldies", and 3 (including Kelkoo this time), classified it as "Rock & Roll" (the other 4 didn't include the actual genre on the results page of the search, and I couldn't be bothered to go into the actual sites).

Here ends the musical history lesson pt. 2 :flower:

Incidentally, I take your point that you may classify it differently. But in the (apparently) common perception, that IS what it's classified as - there's no point in coming back quoting a site dedicated to classifying music into it's right genre's and saying how you're right. It's the common perception of what is a rock & roll track that counts here. Not all of us were around back then!! :D

Also, just for the record, Rock around the clock, which I don't own a copy of, so had to rely on the internet for the bpm, seems to be anywhere from 182 to 192bpm depending on which site you look at. And hence, I wouldn't play it at a MJ evening. I would (and do) however play some of the original tracks I listed, which I think would commonly be perceived as Rock & Roll...

Thank you.

Trampy

[Lou]

I'm almost tempted to use one of those icons that seem popular with the linguistically challenged.
:eek: :rofl:

[mick]

Also, just for the record, Rock around the clock, which I don't own a copy of, so had to rely on the internet for the bpm, seems to be anywhere from 182 to 192bpm depending on which site you look at. And hence, I wouldn't play it at a MJ evening. I would (and do) however play some of the original tracks I listed, which I think would commonly be perceived as Rock & Roll...

Trampy
Thank you for your polite reply.

I occasionally go to rock n roll dances (if I have nothing better to do) and people dress up as teddy boys, which dont impress me. I am unfortunately from that era, and if I saw a ted then, I'd cross the road.

So its like some time in the future, when people dress up as charvas, to got to hard house and trance ( I'm guessing a bit here) discos, drink Fosters, smoke spliffs and reminisce about the good old days.

Maybe I am a bit prejudiced.

[missedtheraffle]

Now THAT'S a question and a half. What genre is "lets twist again"?
If you listen to "(Let's do) the twist" By Hank Ballard you would say it was a R'n'R song, but compare it to Chubby Checker's version, which was released on the flipside of "Let's twist again" and you can appreciate that there is a subtle difference in the style and rhythm. (And both the Chubby tracks are in the same style)
The Chubby version is in a very "square " type of beat, as opposed to the shuffle type rhythm of the Hank Ballard one, which lends itself better to the "3 and 4, 5 and 6" of jive, (and which I am sure is the original and predates Chubby.) So even though they are the same speed, they invoke a different dance.
I'll stick my neck out and say that Chubby's "Lets twist again" is NOT rock'n'roll, and, ironically, Hank's earlier "Twist" IS, in spite of the title.
It's all down to the subtleties in the way it's played.
In general if I would describe a performance as having a "beat" then I would dance MJ, and if it had a "Rhythm" then I would jive to it
By the way, Robin of Maddy's Jive says that Rock'n'Roll describes a type of music, not a dance, and Jive is a dance, not music, which sounds reasonable to me.
Although I never really went clubbin' I think some tremendous music came out of the club scene and that not enough of it is played at dances. I think some of the DJs tend to play the same tracks too often, too much "Gimmicky" stuff and too much "Cabaret" music is played, Frank Sinatra etc, which was mean't for ballroom dancing, and "kills it " for me. I've never been to Ashtons, is that the same? Anyone remember Pirrhelli's at Eastleigh? They used to play some good stuff.
My personal requests:
Adam F "Circles"?!
Annie Lennox "Cant get next to you babe" and "love is a stranger"
'been a long time (Led Zeppelin or Susan Tedecki)
War (Low rider)
Taj Mahal(Hula blues)
Dread Zone(Little britain)
:nice: :D

[Andy McGregor]

By the way, Robin of Maddy's Jive says that Rock'n'Roll describes a type of music, not a dance, and Jive is a dance, not music, which sounds reasonable to me.

You'd better tell these people (http://www.vicrock.com.au/southside/) and these (http://www.srcf.ucam.org/cdc/classes/styles/rnr.html) and the ISTD faculty of disco/freestyle/Rock 'n' roll (http://www.istd.org/dancestyles/discofreestylerocknroll/intro.html) that their dance style is actually music, not a dance style at all - I'm sure they'll give up dancing straight away :devil:

p.s. Welcome to the forum "missedtheraffle" you've chosen a very creative name and I hope you will post more controversial items in the future :flower: