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Rachel
10th-October-2002, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by Franck
So, we teach a few basic drops or lifts regularly at classes. Nothing too fancy or dangerous, but it does give us (teachers) the opportunity to bring up all the safety aspects of doing those moves. In particular, warning the women that they do not have to follow the man's lead if he is doing a drop without warning / experience
Hm, that's interesting ... I'm never quite sure how to avoid doing a drop if your partner's determined to make you go down. (No, I DON'T mean what you're thinking!)

Recently, I specifically told a guy NOT to do any lifts/drops during a dance as I'd just eaten a big lunch and didn't want it coming up again. So what did he do? A drop every second move!! Why???

So, what can I do to avoid being forced into a drop, if I don't want to do it? Sometimes it seems you can't just manage to step away from it when a guy's got both your hands and is leaning over you with that determined look in his eye...
Rachel

Gus
10th-October-2002, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by Rachel
So, what can I do to avoid being forced into a drop, if I don't want to do it? Sometimes it seems you can't just manage to step away from it when a guy's got both your hands and is leaning over you with that determined look in his eye...
Rachel What you can do is walk off the dance floor! If a guy is that out of order then the usual rules of ettiquete no longer apply. My dance partner got grabed by one of the local cowboy morons ... (yup ... YOU Paul C) .... who has a rep for doing airsteps .... she told him explicitly "No Airsteps" ... 30 seconds later she had been put in a half loop ..... at the time she just finished the dance and stormed off .... took a couple of months to fester about it then the next time she saw him stormed across, pinned him to the wall and gave him hell .... to which the cowboy muppet just smiled:reallymad :reallymad :reallymad

What she should have done was to follow her original instinct and slap him across the face ... there are enough people on the circuit who would love to do the same.

Seriously, the individuals who do drops and lifts without consent are a danger to their partners and others on the dance floor. Its about time that franchisees and freestyle organisers started BANNING these muppets in the interests of safety. Whe someone gets badly hurt ... then its all going to be a bit too late! (rant, rant, rant etc. etc.)

PS Nice to see you back on the forum Rachel:nice:

Franck
10th-October-2002, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by Rachel
Hm, that's interesting ... I'm never quite sure how to avoid doing a drop if your partner's determined to make you go down. (No, I DON'T mean what you're thinking!)Interesting thought :wink:
Seriously though, if the man is attempting a drop / dip, the easiest avoidance tactic is to walk the move, effectively travelling across the floor as he tries to lower you down. This does not always work though :sad: and I agree with Gus that you should just tell the guy he is out of order and dance with someone else! Unfortunately, this is not always easy as those "Cow-boys" to use Gus' term, will often prey on Beginners who don't have the confidence to say anything or think this is the accepted practise at the club :reallymad
Unfortunately, telling your partner before the dance that you don't want to do drops, might have the opposite effect :really: Us men have "one-track minds" and if you put the idea of drops in our heads (even with the word "no" before), we won't be able to think of anything else :sick: :sorry
Part of the teaching routine explaining to women they do not have to do the drop, and how they can avoid it (walking, resisting arms, shouting etc...) is to make the men aware that not all women want to be swept off their feet. Indeed a lot of these guys think they are really impressing their partners when they hear their shrieks of delight :confused: :confused: :confused:

Franck.

Rachel
10th-October-2002, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by Gus
What you can do is walk off the dance floor!

PS Nice to see you back on the forum Rachel:nice: Thank you - it's nice to be back! Since getting back from Glasgow (sorry I missed you, Franck!), I resisted posting for a whole ... 3 days! And then it just got to me and I couldn't hold out any longer. (And there was me thinking that dance, wine and pot noodles were my only addictions!) I definitely have to agree that this is by far the best dance discussion board (and also agree with FC on the Bombay Bad Boys!).

Anyway, yes, I think you and Franck are quite right - and I have been far too wimpy in my behaviour with these kind of people in the past ... Good for your partner, Gus, for taking the action she did. And I'm really pleased to hear about Francks' teaching routine - for women to avoid drops and to inform the men that we don't always want to do that kind of thing. (I bet some men are quite shocked to hear this, aren't they?) I wish more teachers would do this.

I don't normally mind doing drops, but only if they go with the music, if there's enough room on the dance floor, and I'm with someone I know and trust. Even then, where possible I often keep my weight on one leg which is tucked underneath me, so I know I can get myself back up, if necessary. Airsteps I would NEVER do out of choice with someone I didn't know.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could post 'Wanted' mugshots of all those people who do these moves without prior consent - along the lines of: 'Do NOT dance with this man if you do not want to do potentially lethal airsteps'. Don't 'spose we could legally get away with that though, could we?

DavidB
10th-October-2002, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Franck
will often prey on Beginners who don't have the confidence to say anything or think this is the accepted practice at the clubIf the intermediate class teaches a drop (as many do) then surely it is accepted practice that one move in four should be a drop?
is to make the men aware that not all women want to be swept off their feet.and not all men like doing them either. I've now had two ladies complain that I didn't do any drops with them (although one later apologised when she noticed I don't do drops with anyone).

And can someone tell me what is the difference between a 'drop' and a 'seducer'?

David

Franck
10th-October-2002, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by DavidB
If the intermediate class teaches a drop (as many do) then surely it is accepted practice that one move in four should be a drop?No, no, no! :nice: you missed my point, I meant they think it is the accepted practice to do drops with Beginners! :really:
While it is ok to do these moves, it is very important to be aware of the safety implications, hence including them in some (not every week) classes. We always warn everyone never to do these moves with Beginners or indeed someone they don't know, or that has not done the moves in a class.
Originally posted by DavidB
And can someone tell me what is the difference between a 'drop' and a 'seducer'?The difference is how close you are to your partner when lowering her! :wink: :yum:

Franck.

Stuart M
11th-November-2002, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by Fran

I think one of the problem for us then was a couple who insisted on taking up very valuable dance space just standing next to us chatting when there was plenty of space off the dance floor to do that :reallymad

I find that a couple of quick clonks from the elbows during an armjive moves people like that on :devil: - no need to be polite with them, since they're in the wrong to start with. Just make sure they spill their drink over themselves, not you, however. And rub it in by saying "Oh, sorry, but you're on the dance-floor... :innocent: ".

About all I'd say in their defence is that it might help to put less tables around the edges at Partick Burgh Hall. Although there's plenty of space further back from the dancefloor, it's always a struggle to get through to it!

It was very busy though. I did one drop/seducer all evening, and that only when a "2-couple" space appeared.

Graham
11th-November-2002, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by Stuart M

I find that a couple of quick clonks from the elbows during an armjive moves people like that on :devil: - no need to be polite with them, since they're in the wrong to start with. Just make sure they spill their drink over themselves, not you, however. And rub it in by saying "Oh, sorry, but you're on the dance-floor... :innocent: ".

Oh, but I tried launching Fran at them a number of times :really: :wink: , but sadly without success :tears: . Unfortunately they were on their way to the bar, so didn't have drinks to spill. :sad:

Stuart M
11th-November-2002, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by Graham

Oh, but I tried launching Fran at them a number of times :really: :wink: , but sadly without success :tears: .
:what: :eek: Using your partner as a weapon?

Now I know why I get asked up by more women than you do :na:

CJ
11th-November-2002, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by DavidB

Drops (and aerials) are moves for showing off. But if nobody watches, or everybody is doing the same, why bother?

David

completely disagree but too tired to argue point for now. Possibly within another thread, dunno.

Anyone want to take up the mantle?

Gadget
11th-November-2002, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by DavidB
Drops (and aerials) are moves for showing off. But if nobody watches, or everybody is doing the same, why bother?
{taking up the mantle}

Because you are not showing off your prowess to everyone, just to your partner. And everyone is doing the same - Ceroc - no matter what move (or trying to ;))
Obviously the track in question had a break in it that led to doing 'something special'. For most leads who don't want to relinquish controll, a drop is the obvious 'special' move.

Basil Brush (Forum Plant)
11th-November-2002, 02:38 PM
DROPS/DIPS AND SIMILAR MOVES SHOULD BE RESERVED FOR CABARET PERFORMANCES, COMPETITIONS AND PRIVATE PRACTICE SESSIONS..... AND PERHAPS NOT THE SOCIAL DANCE FLOOR.

BUT WHEN IT'S QUIET THERE'S NO HARM IF YOU HAVE SPACE, AND IT IS SAFE TO HAVE YOUR PARTNER'S HEEL WHIZZING THROUGHT THE AIR AT EYE-LEVEL (FOR EXAMPLE).

WHEN THE DANCEFLOOR IS BUSY IT'S ONLY COMPLETE PRATS WHO DO THEM..... AND THEY ARE USUALLY DONE JUST TO SHOW-OFF (MOST TRUE DANCE-AHOLICS LOVE SHOWING OFF-!??), BUT WHEN EVERYONE ENDS WITH A DIP, IT LOOKS SO 'CEROC'!!

Ronde!
29th-December-2002, 09:24 AM
Hi all,

before I go into avoidance moves, I'd like to duly note that doing dips & drops on anyone you haven't obtained permission from, is just not cricket. And we Aussies know cricket. ;) (Couldn't resist, sorry!)

Ladies, if you don't want to do an extension dip, tuck your back foot under to support your weight, stay upright, and "Head Check," that is, without dipping, throw your head back for effect. For a bit more style, you can extend your free hand above the head or tilt your head out with your outer hand under. He'll go for the dip, drop your weight, and lo! You're still upright. He has no choice but to right you from the Head Check and exit.

For most drops, you can anticipate them coming; again, move your feet to support your weight, and don't drop. He can't do the Nosedive, for example, if most of your weight isn't on his left hand. Just stand there until he gives up and exits you. :)

If he's trying to do anything more dangerous without permission, our ladies have been told to just grab the man. Forget style, safety first, grab his arm/shirt/hair, and tell him "no". He won't do it again, particularly if you grabbed his hair the first time. :)

Live passionately,

Lindsay
30th-December-2002, 11:41 AM
[i]He'll go for the dip, drop your weight, and lo! You're still upright. He has no choice but to right you from the Head Check and exit.
[/B]

Had to read this post a few times, but good tip Ronde!