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eastmanjohn
12th-July-2004, 06:12 PM
I've had a few people asking recently what involvement The LeRoc Federation has with the upcoming competition in Bristol/Weston. The answer is none at all, but I thought I should just make that public in case anyone else has any misunderstanding of who runs the event.

The competition is run by Sherif Uthman who is not a member of The Federation. The competition is not governed by the rules of any national organisation that I have been able to find out, and so the competition which says that the winners of one of its sections can claim the title of UK LeRoc Champions can really only claim an unofficial title, as I understand it.

Having said that, I hope that the competition goes well and that everyone enjoys themselves. Good luck to everyone who enters.

Gus
12th-July-2004, 06:21 PM
The competition is not governed by the rules of any national organisation that I have been able to find out, and so the competition which says that the winners of one of its sections can claim the title of UK LeRoc Champions can really only claim an unofficial title, as I understand it.
.

Well on the same basis .... at a certain NWest venue a few weeks back we held a fun dance competition. Having read the above I feel totaly redeeemed in announcing the winners as the Inter Galactic Freestyle Champions. :grin: ... so why haven't they been invited to compete with the lesser mortals at the JiveMasters :devil: :wink:

Gordon J Pownall
12th-July-2004, 06:33 PM
Well on the same basis .... at a certain NWest venue a few weeks back we held a fun dance competition. Having read the above I feel totaly redeeemed in announcing the winners as the Inter Galactic Freestyle Champions. :grin: ... so why haven't they been invited to compete with the lesser mortals at the JiveMasters :devil: :wink:

Equally, the winners of the Dance With a Stranger at the Masked Ball of the East in Walthamstow are :-

"The CerocMetro local, national, international Supreme Modern Jive World Champions"

...or something like that - ask Adam - he had it engraved on the Winners Trophy... :clap:

www.cerocmetro.com ceroc@hotmail.com

cerocmetro
13th-July-2004, 02:04 AM
Equally, the winners of the Dance With a Stranger at the Masked Ball of the East in Walthamstow are :-

"The CerocMetro local, national, international Supreme Modern Jive World Champions"

...or something like that - ask Adam - he had it engraved on the Winners Trophy... :clap:

www.cerocmetro.com ceroc@hotmail.com

yes well mentioned Gordon. However I do like accuracy. The correct title is of course, "the United Kingdom, European, Commonwealth and World Dance Champions". The rules were extremely tough. The dancers had to wear a mask :waycool:

The first years winners WERE invited to the JiveMasters, Steve Wong and Haidee Bishop. :whistle: (Video available ceroc@hotmail.com) :wink:

CerocMetro are of course entering the Bristol Champs with Team Urban Metro and I wish all the team a huge amount of luck. They are a great team and Mandy has once again put a stunning routine together. respect :clap: :yeah:

Adam

Gus
13th-July-2004, 08:00 AM
yes well mentioned Gordon. However I do like accuracy. The correct title is of course, "the United Kingdom, European, Commonwealth and World Dance Champions".

Joking aside ... this all raises the question about the validity of the claims made by some of the competitions. The Scottish Champs claim .... urrrr nothing ( :grin: ) but a number of competitions claim to be UK Champs.

{ODA Mode ON} :devil:
How can you have 4 UK champions? With the greatest of respect a similar challenge could be levelled at the JiveMasters. A few people have commented that they haven't even heard of most of the competitiors ("The Best of the Best?"). I know its only haf way through but a lot of the 'big' names are missing ... and outside of Scotland, London, Bristol and Northampton .... where are the rest of the dnacers? Seems like Wales, Brum, Manchester, Nottingham and Newcastle don't figure ..... or are there surprises to come?
So ... can ANY of the Championships claim to be produce the UK Champions ... or does anyhone care?

{ODA Mode OFF}

Lou
13th-July-2004, 08:50 AM
The competition is run by Sherif Uthman who is not a member of The Federation. The competition is not governed by the rules of any national organisation that I have been able to find out, and so the competition which says that the winners of one of its sections can claim the title of UK LeRoc Champions can really only claim an unofficial title, as I understand it.I hate arguing in such a public forum with fellow Bristolians - especially with those who I have the utmost respect for. But..... (oh, how I hate "but"s!)... I have always argued that one of the advantages that LeRoc has over Ceroc is that it is a generic term. It's not trademarked. It's not a franchise. And we don't have to join the Federation (or any Association, Club, Assimilation of Rebel Alliance, whatever - you get my point).

I think there's a consensus of opinion that there are 2 major all-comers competitions in the UK. Ceroc & Chance2Dance. Then there are 3 recognised regional comps - Bristol, Brighton & Scotland which attract dancers from all around the country. (And there's something called Jivemasters, I think, but I'm not sure what that's about ;) :whistle: )

Out of all those, only Brighton would possibly want to use the title that Sherif has adopted - but they've chosen their own. And, I think Sherif's choice of "UK LeRoc Champions" is a good one, as it's certainly encouraged a good number of people to enter the competition. When it all comes down to it - it's purely a useful title for marketing purposes - which is what it'll be used for on someone's teaching CV. Same as all the rest.... :grin:

Andy McGregor
13th-July-2004, 09:12 AM
... or does anyone care?
[/i]

Speaking personally, my objective is to enjoy the day of a competition.

The silverware and title is irrelevant - I've only got 2 dancing medals but I've got a box of fencing trophies and medals which resurfaced in a house move. They are just nice reminders of a great day out :clap:

The title is something else. If you're a dance teacher it's useful to have a list of competition successes to put on your flyers. But if dancing is your hobby then I think a title is no use to you at all. [cheeky mode]On Sunday RobC, Debi and I agreed to become a double trouble team - we've not practiced yet but we will do more than the 40 mins that RobC, Trampy and I did last time! I think there's 5 trios in this comp - if we can lock a few people in the loo for the finals we could win, produce a video and teach workshops on the back of being champions[/cheeky mode]

The winners of the competitions were still champions on the day: they were the best dancers in an open competition where everyone in the country was invited to compete. To my mind that makes them a national champion. Of course, not many of the 'best' dancers compete in some competitions - but they could have, nothing was stopping them. If the fastest 100 metre runner didn't turn up to the World Championships he wouldn't be the "World Champion" - although he would still be the fastest in the world. In jive it's far more difficult to measure 'best' and far more subjective. But I still think that the winner of a national championship is a national champion.

The different 'national' competitions are another matter altogether. I belive that each competition, being open to all, produces a national champion. But how can there be four national champions? Who cares so long as we all have a good day - and by having 4 of them we have 4 good days :clap:

Gordon J Pownall
13th-July-2004, 09:17 AM
I belive that each competition, being open to all, produces a national champion. But how can there be four national champions? Who cares so long as we all have a good day - and by having 4 of them we have 4 good days :clap:

Andy,

sometimes you say the most apt and sensible things......this is one of those times.... :worthy:

Lou
13th-July-2004, 09:26 AM
Andy,

sometimes you say the most apt and sensible things......this is one of those times.... :worthy:
:yeah: :clap:

TheTramp
13th-July-2004, 10:02 AM
Out of all those, only Brighton would possibly want to use the title that Sherif has adopted - but they've chosen their own. And, I think Sherif's choice of "UK LeRoc Champions" is a good one, as it's certainly encouraged a good number of people to enter the competition. When it all comes down to it - it's purely a useful title for marketing purposes - which is what it'll be used for on someone's teaching CV. Same as all the rest.... :grin:
Actually Lou, the Britroc competition, run by Graham LeClerc says (about the winners of the Open category there):

The winners of this category will be entitled to call themselves the British Leroc Champions.

Having said that, I do agree with Andy!!

Trampy

philsmove
13th-July-2004, 10:31 AM
Who cares so long as we all have a good day


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Lou
13th-July-2004, 10:35 AM
Actually Lou, the Britroc competition, run by Graham LeClerc says (about the winners of the Open category there):
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">The winners of this category will be entitled to call themselves the British Leroc Champions. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Having said that, I do agree with Andy!!
Sorry, Steve - I think I'm missing what you're trying to get at. Are you agreeing with me that Brighton have chosen their own title & that Sherif's is different? :sick: :nice:

Anyway - hurrah for everyone who organises these events & gets everyone together & good luck to all those competing on Saturday! :nice:

Andy McGregor
13th-July-2004, 10:40 AM
competing on Saturday! :nice:

OMG - it's this Saturday!

Is it time to start saying I've done no practice yet? :wink:

eastmanjohn
13th-July-2004, 12:19 PM
I hate arguing in such a public forum with fellow Bristolians - especially with those who I have the utmost respect for. But..... (oh, how I hate "but"s!)... I have always argued that one of the advantages that LeRoc has over Ceroc is that it is a generic term. It's not trademarked. It's not a franchise. And we don't have to join the Federation (or any Association, Club, Assimilation of Rebel Alliance, whatever - you get my point).

I think there's a consensus of opinion that there are 2 major all-comers competitions in the UK. Ceroc & Chance2Dance. Then there are 3 recognised regional comps - Bristol, Brighton & Scotland which attract dancers from all around the country. (And there's something called Jivemasters, I think, but I'm not sure what that's about ;) :whistle: )

Out of all those, only Brighton would possibly want to use the title that Sherif has adopted - but they've chosen their own. And, I think Sherif's choice of "UK LeRoc Champions" is a good one, as it's certainly encouraged a good number of people to enter the competition. When it all comes down to it - it's purely a useful title for marketing purposes - which is what it'll be used for on someone's teaching CV. Same as all the rest.... :grin:

Hi Lou

I don't think we're arguing!! I posted with my Federation hat on and in response to a number of questions about the Federation's involvement.

If you look outside of the MJ circuit and deeper into the dance competition world then you'll find that the national champioships are held under the British Dance Council rules. They are run by various orgainisations who pay for the rights to hold the national championships.

I agree that currently the Blackpool and ceroc champs are the biggest. Ceroc can claim the ceroc chamionships as a national title because they have a trademarked name. As you say, LeRoc is a generic term (much as the Tango, Waltz etc) that is available for general use (this is only the case because a number of individuals fought a legal case on behalf of all those who might wish to use the name in the future, at their own personal cost!!), and so it is less clear which individual organisations can run a national championships for a generic dance, other than unofficially. Maybe that is why they use the term "can claim the title".

I do think that if the Bristol competition is a regional competition then it wouldn't be marketed as The United Kingdom Dance Championships!! I think it's changed its name every year it's been run.

Anyway, I hope everyone has a great time, and good luck to all the competitors.

Lou
13th-July-2004, 12:39 PM
Hi John,

I replied here after I saw the post on Bristol. Following John G's comments and your statement



The competition is run by Sherif Uthman who is not a member of The Federation. The competition is not governed by the rules of any national organisation that I have been able to find out, and so the competition which says that the winners of one of its sections can claim the title of UK LeRoc Champions can really only claim an unofficial title, as I understand it.
I took it to imply that the only organisation that has the right to call it the UK Leroc Champions would be one affiliated to the Federation. That rankled, as I'm a firm believer that LeRoc is a generic term. (Hurrah to those that fought the legal case!) Plus, as the competition has been targeted to those competition dancers across the UK, not just Bristol & the West, the UK part is as valid. (The Tramp's post that BritRoc use British LeRoc Champions as their title only goes to reinforce that view - Brighton also being viewed as a more regional comp).

But my main point is that it's just a name to be used as a marketing tool - a point that was far more eloquently made by Andy Mc later on! :grin:

Andy McGregor
13th-July-2004, 01:09 PM
a point that was far more eloquently made by Andy Mc later on! :grin:
thought while posting - I love him and want to have his babies

:hug: :kiss: :hug:

Lou
13th-July-2004, 01:35 PM
thought while posting - I love him and want to have his babies :rolleyes: :rofl:

cerocmetro
13th-July-2004, 01:48 PM
The different 'national' competitions are another matter altogether. I believe that each competition, being open to all, produces a national champion. But how can there be four national champions? Who cares so long as we all have a good day - and by having 4 of them we have 4 good days :clap:

On the nail Andy. :yeah:

Why are people so up themselves about the competitions anyway? we need to look at the history of Modern Jive competitions and also to look at what they are really about.

Modern Jive competitions started as far as I am concerned with the lejive champs. People had never seen a modern Jive competition before and it was a chance for people to get together. It was perhaps one of the first times that people travelled from around the country to one venue to compare styles, moves etc etc. the judges chose who they liked best. In reality the styles were so varied it should really have been called a showcase day, but calling it a competition was a way of getting a lot of good dancers to perform for a fee (prize money) or the chance of a fee and for the organiser to gain some marketing.

At the time, we did not have email or the web and we really were in the dark ages of communication. Looking back it was amazing people came from so far and wide.

But the ball had been blown up and it had to roll somewhere. The event was run again and the second year had a very different feel to it. The events were taken more seriously. If nothing else this was noticed in the costumes.

People like Nigel and Nina were first exposed at these events and new ideas were unleashed onto the dance floors of GB.

By coincidence the web and email were starting to develop. This helped the rise of large gatherings of dancers " Camber". People were now becoming used to travelling to dances further a field.

The competitions were on the increase but there are two very clear sides to competitions, the competitors and the organisers. The competitors want recognition for their efforts and the organisers wanted to get known, promote their classes and make a buck.

Modern Jive Ceroc leroc whatever you call it has and I hope always will be a very open style of dancing. It is a very personal form of expression. Therefore how can it be judged, even subjectively.

To win a competition the winners have to have something new and exciting that pleases the crowd and is trendy. As MJ is an open form of dancing it makes the task not only very difficult but also very lucky. It also makes for a fantastic show for the audience.

If you go to an ice dance competition or a ballroom discipline, you will expect to see exactly the same moves, same foot and hand positioning etc etc. It is very rare to see something totally outrageously new. My clearest memory was (and I cannot believe I have forgoten his name, John Curry?) in the Olympics do a huge semi-circle on ice whilst leanng backwards. It was amazing, ice breaking even and Ice dancing took a new direction. Kind of like someone doing a pretzel for the first time, or seeing a man do a double spin for the first time, or someone doing the slpits.

We see new and amazing moves at every modern Jive competition so keep them coming.

Call them competitions, call them showcase days, call them what you like, just keep them coming.

The JiveMasters is about having all the people who have stood out at these events coming together. About getting every big name in the dance world to take part. It is about giving the public who do not or cannot travel the chance to see what makes people stand out. Introducing new moves, styles and ideas to the masses. It gives the audience a chance to decide who or what is the flavour of the month. I am not saying whether I agree or disagree with results but the audience have had their say.

Competitions not being part of a recognised body? well show me a couple who put four moves together that fit any book of rules and you have a winner for that book of rules but my bet is you will not find one.

Keep MJ open, keep it fun, let all the exhibitionists, extroverts have their moment and let us all enjoy watching and taking part.

Adam

The JiveMasters video 2003 ceroc@hotmail.com www.cerocmetro.com

Andy McGregor
13th-July-2004, 01:55 PM
let all the exhibitionists, extroverts have their moment and let us all enjoy watching and taking part.

IMHO those "exhibitionists and extroverts" spoil the day for shy, retiring types like Adam and me :wink:

Sheepman
13th-July-2004, 02:04 PM
I'm with Andy here, the main point is to have fun, who really cares about the exact title?
But -

Plus, as the competition has been targeted to those competition dancers across the UK, not just Bristol & the West, the UK part is as valid. (The Tramp's post that BritRoc use British LeRoc Champions as their title only goes to reinforce that view - Brighton also being viewed as a more regional comp).
the repeated use of "regional" when referring to Bristol/WSM and Britroc irritates me when it seems to be running down these competitions in comparison with Blackpool & Ceroc.
The only sense in which I can see them as "regional" is that they are (currently) not as big. They are both well publicised, and attract top dancers from around the country. (Maybe not quite as many of the top dancers as other competitions.)
If by "regional" you mean that a large percentage of dancers are from the local region, then that certainly also applies to the Ceroc Championships! (And maybe doesn't apply to Britroc, as I believe most of the competitors were from London & environs.)
Bristol was necessarily a smaller competition, because of the size of the venue, this year I wait to see how much effect the bigger venue at WSM has, (and I look forward to seeing friends from east, south, west, and north (of the border). Britroc was in it's first year last year, so it will be interesting to see how it expands this year, in terms of organisation last year's was the best of any competition I've been too.

Oh yes, don't forget there are another couple of national titles due up in just over a week. The aerials and blues competitions at Beach Boogie have always had a "National" title AFAIK.

Greg

Lou
13th-July-2004, 02:13 PM
the repeated use of "regional" when referring to Bristol/WSM and Britroc irritates me when it seems to be running down these competitions in comparison with Blackpool & Ceroc.
The only sense in which I can see them as "regional" is that they are (currently) not as big. They are both well publicised, and attract top dancers from around the country. (Maybe not quite as many of the top dancers as other competitions.) Yeah - you're right, Greg. Sorry. I was just trying to describe how I saw the prerception of them, and it does do them an injustice. I'd love to see Bristol rated as highly as Ceroc London & Blackpool. :grin:

Lou
14th-July-2004, 08:28 AM
I had an interesting conversation with Sherif last night. I hadn't realised before, but he's actually officially registered the title "Leroc UK Championships".

John E; apparently he'd had a conversation with your Eric about this a little while ago, but I guess the information never filtered through to you. It’s a shame, because we could’ve avoided some of the confusion yesterday.

So - to sum up:



1. There are many LeRoc organisations, but not all are members of the Federation.
2. LeRoc is a generic term and doesn’t operate on the Franchise model like Ceroc.
3. Modern Jive competitions are fun.
4. There’s a competition happening at Weston-super-Mare this weekend.
5. It's being organised by Sherif of Leroc2000.
6. It has no association to the LeRoc Federation.
7. The winners of the Open Freestyle competition are officially able to call themselves Leroc UK Champions
8. I shall especially be cheering on Matt & Becky in the Intermediates.
9. Capitalising the letter R in LeRoc is entirely optional.
10. I like to boldly split infinitives.
11. I'm just an ordinary punter and I certainly don't like politics.

Hope this helps! :grin:

Gordon J Pownall
14th-July-2004, 09:03 AM
10. I like to boldly split infinitives.



Well split them not......

Star Trek is the worst case of this...

"To boldly go.....".AAAAAGHHHH

it should be


"...To go boldly..."

I knew A level English Lit would come in handy...... :waycool:

Gus
14th-July-2004, 09:19 AM
7. The winners of the Open Freestyle competition are officially able to call themselves Leroc UK Champions
:

Out of curiosity ... whats to stop me setting my next dance competition up as the British LeRoc Championships?

Lou
14th-July-2004, 09:21 AM
Out of curiosity ... whats to stop me setting my next dance competition up as the British LeRoc Championships?

Dunno - but I suspect our Brighton friends might be a little miffed if you did... :whistle:

Gordon J Pownall
14th-July-2004, 09:29 AM
Out of curiosity ... whats to stop me setting my next dance competition up as the British LeRoc Championships?


Or

"...The Undisputed LeRoc Champions of the British Empire and it's Colonies..."

(Australia is still one of our colonies isn't it...???) :wink:

Gus
14th-July-2004, 09:31 AM
Dunno - but I suspect our Brighton friends might be a little miffed if you did... :whistle:

WHY? [ODA] If its a generic title and there is not controlling body then ANYBODY can make such claims. Freedom is one thing ... but chaos can follow. In martial arts that exactly what happened .... in th late 90's there were about 15 UK Champions for differnt groups/federations :sick: Logic would say that only certain competitons should be allowed to have any claim to National status. I've already seen some second rate dancers claiming Major competition Champ status for some Mikey Mouse comps that were held some time back. Situations like that just cheapen the results form the 'majors' ... Blackpool and Ceroc [ODA]

Lou
14th-July-2004, 09:36 AM
WHY?

'cos I think they've already used it! :grin:

I'm not going to bite today. Sorry Gus! :nice:

eastmanjohn
14th-July-2004, 09:37 AM
I had an interesting conversation with Sherif last night. I hadn't realised before, but he's actually officially registered the title "Leroc UK Championships".

John E; apparently he'd had a conversation with your Eric about this a little while ago, but I guess the information never filtered through to you. It’s a shame, because we could’ve avoided some of the confusion yesterday.



Hi Lou

I think it would be interesting for people to know who that is registered with. There is no mention of any other organisation in the publicity or rules. Can you shed some light on this?

Gus
14th-July-2004, 09:43 AM
'cos I think they've already used it! :grin:

OK ... a minor flaw in an otherwise brilliant plan :wink:



I'm not going to bite today. Sorry Gus! :nice:
Spoilsport ....
Joking aside , can you see my point. I feel that competition organisers should not be able to use a national status just to make the event sound grander than it is. It reminds me of the US Baseball Champs being called The World Series :tears:

Andy McGregor
14th-July-2004, 10:02 AM
Well split them not......

Star Trek is the worst case of this...

"To boldly go.....".AAAAAGHHHH

it should be


"...To go boldly..."

I knew A level English Lit would come in handy...... :waycool:

It's so often being done nowadays that it's now considered modern correct English.

Lou
14th-July-2004, 10:02 AM
I think it would be interesting for people to know who that is registered with. There is no mention of any other organisation in the publicity or rules. Can you shed some light on this?

Hi John,

It's probably best you discuss your concerns with Sherif directly, I think. That way we don't get into any of these "he says" discussions where things get lost in translation. All I know is that he sincerely believes that he has the official right to use the title, he's gone through some of what he understands to be official channels, and that he has some documentation to back up this claim. It sounds reasonable to me. But I'm just an ordinary dancer. I'm not part of any specific Leroc organisation. I don't want to be. I enjoy the advantage of being able to dance at a number of different local venues, with different styles and atmospheres. It's one of Bristol's strengths. And I absolutely loathe politics. (Have I said this before?)

philsmove
14th-July-2004, 10:40 AM
Star Trek is the worst case of this

It’s a great shame we cannot get Spock to decide who is and who is not a nation LeRoc Champion

Lou
14th-July-2004, 10:45 AM
It’s a great shame we cannot get Spock to decide who is and who is not a nation LeRoc Champion
Ahhhhh... but iirc, Vulcans are members of the Federation. ;)

DavidB
14th-July-2004, 01:02 PM
Years ago I heard the following story.

----------------------------------
Robert Austin who ran the first UK Modern Jive Championships, received a letter from the organisers of the UK Dance Championships (a major Ballroom competition) insisting that he change the name. Their argument was that they had trademarked "United Kingdom" in relation to any dance competition.

However you cannot trademark 'United Kingdom'. You can only trademark "United Kingdom xxxxxx Championships". (And xxxxxx cannot infringe on any other trademarks.) So Robert carried on running his competition, and they never complained again.

----------------------------------

If this is correct, and assuming that Leroc is not a trademark, then Sherif shouldn't have any problem.

Gordon J Pownall
14th-July-2004, 01:05 PM
Ahhhhh... but iirc, Vulcans are members of the Federation. ;)


:worthy: :worthy: :worthy: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

under par
14th-July-2004, 01:14 PM
Years ago I heard the following story.

----------------------------------
Robert Austin who ran the first UK Modern Jive Championships, received a letter from the organisers of the UK Dance Championships (a major Ballroom competition) insisting that he change the name. Their argument was that they had trademarked "United Kingdom" in relation to any dance competition.

However you cannot trademark 'United Kingdom'. You can only trademark "United Kingdom xxxxxx Championships". (And xxxxxx cannot infringe on any other trademarks.) So Robert carried on running his competition, and they never complained again.

----------------------------------

If this is correct, and assuming that Leroc is not a trademark, then Sherif shouldn't have any problem.



Without wishing to denegrate any of the above excellent discussion, as a DWAS competitor with little chance of being a winner, dancing for fun, the semantics of the title of the comp goes right over my head(and being 6'8" that takes some doing).

This is a bit like the politics of dancing argument should it interfere with the enjoyment of the "punters"??

IMHO this is a matter for dance organisers to sort out between themselves round a table with all "egos" left at home.

Gus
14th-July-2004, 01:34 PM
IMHO this is a matter for dance organisers to sort out between themselves round a table with all "egos" left at home.

A dance competition without egos???? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
And on which planet is this going to happen?

Gordon J Pownall
14th-July-2004, 01:38 PM
A dance competition without egos???? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
And on which planet is this going to happen?

I think I'll choose the easier and more realistic option for a competition then....


The Annual, (National, World, Commenwealth, Non-federated, Associated, Non-sponsored, non-profit making, in no way regulated, official, loosely linked, cultural, franchised, public limited, shareholders, private)....



Folding sawdust in a force 9 gale whilst wearing boxing gloves marathon

under par
14th-July-2004, 01:42 PM
A dance competition without egos???? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
And on which planet is this going to happen?

I agree the will be egos at the comp.

but I think I said the organisers should sort out the title problems round a table without there egos , for the joint good of all of their punters

Surely you appreciate the difference in emphasis:flower:

Graham W
14th-July-2004, 02:25 PM
I thought the Leroc fed sanctioned the excellent Brighton comp last year, hence the claim to the 'LeRoc' title...

is this going to apply again this year?

G

Gus
14th-July-2004, 02:43 PM
...... but I think I said the organisers should sort out the title problems round a table without there egos , for the joint good of all of their punters


How? I would think that the need for filthy lucre will lead to each promoter trying to make out their competition has the most kudos. At the end of the day, for the top dancers, reputations are at stake. My favourite competition, and the only one that I would actualy compete in, is the Scottish Champs ... because it has no pretentions and the vast majority of the competitiors are there to have fun and not to have their egos stroked.