Leading vs following: which is most fun?

[Franck]

I was browsing a dance newsgroup and found the following question:


Which is the most fun: leading or following?

So I thought I would throw it over to you...

I love leading, deciding what move to do next, taking the music into account, changing my mind at the last minute, etc... I find it a greatly rewarding challenge. :D

However, as a man, I am limited by my own abilities / knowledge / experience, and I probably end up repeating myself a lot... :confused:

On the other hand, following is great fun, every dance is different, every man will find new ways of surprising you, and I guess it can be quite exhilarating... :grin:

So what do you all think?

Franck.

[Stuart M]

Having only followed once, my preference isn't really based on first-hand experience.

However, having seen enough strange expressions on women's faces (:what: :confused: :( :sick: :really: :eek: ), trying to work out what the hell I'm trying to do next, it's leading for me...I'd rather be in my shoes!

SWM

[Tiggerbabe]

What a question Franck!

I've been taxi-ing now for about a year and supposedly know how to lead all of the beginners moves, the problem is now that when I'm dancing with girls I'm getting fed up repeating the same moves and so I'm trying to incorporate some of the moves that I'm led into when I get to dance as a girl. The problem is that I've only ever danced most of them as a girl and so I am not leading them properly, in fact sometimes I've no idea how I end up in the positions I do (or is that another story?). So! I have taken the bull by the horns and have started doing the intermediate class as a man.

I do enjoy leading when the records are not too fast and it is fun when you can lead someone into a move that they have not done previously - as well as giving your ego a serious boost! Some of these women don't half make it difficult though!!!!!!!

However, I still think the girls have the best of things. When we start we can dance with the best guy in the place and do lots of different things simply because he can lead. The guys, meantime, are limited to the moves they know. It's great to dance with people from different venues too, as they often have moves that we haven't been taught. When a great record comes on I just can't wait for somebody to ask me to dance (actually, if you ask the guys they'll probably tell you I don't wait!:devil: )

If I had to choose - I'll follow thanks!:wink:

[DaveD]

Sheena as usual has hit the nail on the jackpot to mix my metaphors. Girls have all the fun :D

Well maybe not all the fun, but think about it... the girls get to do loads of different moves - All a man ever gets to do is the moves he knows, since he has to lead them. I usually find as the night goes on and the brain starts to shut down, that the range of moves diminish. When I get down to first move and arm jive I know its time to go home:sad:

Like most men (I suspect) I have a range of favourite moves, but I try to remember one or two of the more interesting moves I'd forgotten about to throw in every now and then. When the intermediate class has a move I particularly like, I tend to write it down so I can refer to it later. (I do like dips and seducers, but only if there is room!)

Do other men have particular techniques for remembering moves, or am I not alone in having "current favourites" to add to the basic repertoire?

[John S]

When I started dancing I couldn't even sit through and watch the Intermediate class - it was all just so overwhelming, and I couldn't imagine I would ever be able to identify all the moves people were doing, never mind remember them AND put them into practice. :(

Now I've progressed a bit, I can usually just about do most of the moves in the Intermediate class, but I do find it hard to remember them from week to week (or more accurately 10 minutes later when the freestyle has started). I have begun to suspect that I have a finite capacity of moves, and as new ones are poured in at the top others leak out somewhere else. :(

I did go through a phase of writing them down on odd scraps of paper, but never in a disciplined manner, and although I've tried to read other people's descriptions of them it never seems to ring true :(

So in some ways it would be nice just to go along and "be danced" by someone who could lead me into all the moves that are somewhere in my subconscious, but I have tried dancing the lady's part (don't ask, Sheena!!) and found it quite disorientating - so I think I'll stick to being a man for the moment.:) :) (Does one have an option??)

[Franck]

Originally posted by Sheena
What a question Franck!

If I had to choose - I'll follow thanks!:wink:

Well, guys are limited by what they know, but then again, that means they can keep learning new stuff... It never ceazes to amaze me how much fun I get from discovering new directions in a move, creating new combinations, etc... I also love discovering new style ideas to add to my dancing / lead.
On the other hand, women are definitely limited by the men available. This is not usually an issue at a Ceroc night, but becomes a real problem when you are at any other event (wedding / work night out / etc...) where all of a sudden you are only having as much fun as the lack of men will allow you :sad: For men, that is not an issue, any function they attend, they should be able to get a partner and have a great time! :grin:

Franck.

[Franck]

Originally posted by DaveD
Do other men have particular techniques for remembering moves, or am I not alone in having "current favourites" to add to the basic repertoire?

I tend to use a couple of techniques:

- First I keep an eye out on the dance floor, both while dancing or having a rest, and see what other couples are doing. This reminds me of moves I had forgotten, and I include them in my next or current dance...

- Second, I tend to associate certain moves with certain records / partners...

- third, I do not try to remember too many moves as this tends to be counter-productive, my brain just gets confused.

- Finally, this is a technique we teach at the Intermediate workshop, I challenge myself, by forcing myself to use (for example) double handed moves only or only my left-hand / right-hand or not doing returns for a while, etc...

I hope this helps,

Franck.

[under par]

Could this very interesting question be answered more conclusively now that we have so many more dual skilled dancers in MJ. :flower:

We have many, many more talented lady followers who also lead supremely too, :respect: as well as many great leaders who are also more than capable followers.:respect:

I have only followed a few times and therefore cannot really comment on how much fun following is.:eek:

I do know that some followers get frustrated at venues where there are insufficient leaders or enough quality leaders to challenge their abilities.:sad:

Whereas a leader can have fun at virtually any venue so long as they enjoy their own dance with however many followers there are.:flower:

What do you dual skilled people think?

[Frankie_4711]

I can only lead Beginner moves, and am getting bored of them!! I really want to start doing the Intermediate classes as a man, but don't feel I am good enough as a woman yet to forfeit these classes. I've considered doing a Beginners Plus workshop as a man, but time and finances have sort of put a hold on that idea. So over all I definitely prefer following. I also find that leading requires far too much brain power - something I seriously lack! It takes enough of that just to try to work out all the guys' signals etc! Especially when he leads into a move you either don't know or don't know well enough to feel comfortable with (for me, I'm thinking here of something like the Columbian - I get seriously confused with the feet in that!)

[Andreas]

Depends on the dance. In Jive my following skills are ... err ... lacking and I don't really enjoy it. In Latin American and Salsa the situation is a lot better (set footwork :D ) and I enjoy that a lot because It cuts out the entire thinking process I have to go through when leading. :whistle:

[TheTramp]

I enjoy doing both.

On the whole, I think that I'd prefer to be mostly leading. But I've had some really fun dances as a follower. Or doing both, switching between during the dance.

[Genie]

Following, definately. Not because I don't have to think of the moves in advance - I'm used to that (ballet - the whole dance is a set routine) but because I love the 'feel' of being led. It's wonderful - in a hectic lifestyle where you are always thinking - to just let go, and enjoy the fact that someone else is holding the strings for a change :) A strong lead is also very sexy, and very comforting (depending on the dance and music). For example, blues is a definate comfort thing for me, whereas mambo is energising, and I don't know how true that'd be if I were leading. I've only led some of the beginners moves, and one or two intermediate. Not impressed (although it was good to learn, from a technique standpoint)

One of the biggest changes for me in moving over to a freestyle dance from a choreographed one, was learning to follow a lead. Difficult at first, as I'm so used to 'knowing' what's coming next. But that's why I like it. It's not the wide variety of moves you get to experience (although that helps) it's the pleasure of just 'not knowing' and every moment being a surprise.

Hope I'm making sense :-s

[MartinHarper]

Following is definately much more fun for me, though both are enjoyable.

Leading can be varied, dancing to different music or with different partners, but often it feels quite "samey". I find that there's more variety in following: different leaders give very different dances.
Following can also be more relaxing. When leading I pretty much have to be thinking all the time. When following, I can choose to think about the music, the lead, and so forth, but I don't have to. There's the option to just switch off and see what happens, which isn't there when leading. Or, if I want to really think about the music and what it's doing, I can just do that. When leading I always need to keep half my mind on other things.

As Franck says, there's an exhilarating feeling in never being sure what's coming next. Very good followers have the same ability to surprise, because while I know that they'll follow, I don't know for sure how they'll follow, or how they'll interpret my lead, or what elements of style they'll add. However, that's rare. I definately get more surprises when following.

[timbp]

I believe both roles are equally fun.

I came to ceroc knowing nothing of music or dance. As I am male, I was taught to lead. I believe I could equally as well have been taught to follow, and I believe I would have enjoyed the dance as much.

I've only tried following a couple of times. These were in reverse roles classes where the leaders were women who knew no more about leading than I know about following. I didn't enjoy the experience much (apart from the general fun of swapping roles with people I know). I've never tried following somebody who knows how to lead.

I don't think it's appropriate to ask which role is more fun. They are different and complementary roles -- both are needed to make the dance. A more valid question is "which role would you prefer?". And (in a suitably anonymous poll) you might find many men preferring the follower role and many women preferring the lead.

Which role is most fun? Neither. The dance is fun. You get out what you put in.

I personally prefer dancing with girls. While I prefer leading, I'm prepared to accept that may be because leading is all I've been taught, and everyone prefers what they know. (OK, maybe there is a small factor of liking to be in control.)

[Donna]

and I probably end up repeating myself a lot... :confused:

Sorry what did you say? :D


I think following is more fun. The man can only do so much with having to lead which can be difficult for some. Following is much easier and therefore, more style can be thrown into it. I'm just glad I'm a women! :D

[TiggsTours]

Being someone who can lead & follow, I can understand the appeal in both sides.

I definately understand the view that to lead is better, at any event where there are not dancers around. There are many occassions I have been at a work event, and all my colleagues have said they want to see me dance, then I've had to explain that I can't, I need a partner, so some guy's grabbed me then said "Dance with me then", only for me to explain that I'd need him to lead me. Guys definately get the better option when dancing with beginners, as the lady, you are limited to what your partner can do, I know that I prefer leading a beginner lady to following a beginner man.

But, that said, when I am leading, I get bored, very quickly, of my own moves, and having to plan what I'm doing next. I far prefer the spontaneity that you have to use when following, and being able to interpret the lead the way I want to, because my brains not full of what I'm going to do next, just what I'm doing right now!

I do quite enjoy dancing with another girl who can lead, so we can switch the lead and play around a bit, that way you get the best of both worlds. There are very few guys I've met who I can do this with, as you tend to find that you need more physical strength to get the lead off them, they tend to think you're just being difficult to lead when you're trying to claim it, so increase the strength of their lead.

So, in summary, I enjoy both, but when a good track comes on, and I could grab a girl and lead her, or grab a guy and follow, I'll choose following every time!

:drool: :drool: :drool:

We girls really DO get ALL the fun! :clap: :clap: :clap:

[philsmove]

I- First I keep an eye out on the dance floor, both while dancing or having a rest, and see what other couples are doing. This reminds me of moves I had forgotten, and I include them in my next or current dance...

Franck.

Glad I’ not the only person to do this


Dare I Mention TANGO here

I been learning AT for the past 6 months for more details go here (http://72.232.2.194/~fpauly/forum/showthread.php?t=7420&page=22)

Leading and following is taught to both sexes right from the beginning

Being led by an experienced leader is certainly fun

Being led by another beginner was not fun but very instructive as I realised what I was doing wrong

I cant imagine following at a Milonga but its defiantly fun at Classes

[Donna]

and all my colleagues have said they want to see me dance, then I've had to explain that I can't,

But you can! I've seen ya!:nice:



as the lady, you are limited to what your partner can do,

True! I've tried putting in what I do with my partner, with beginners and it's impossible! Especially if they have no timing as well!



But, that said, when I am leading, I get bored, very quickly, of my own moves, and having to plan what I'm doing next.

That's why I said before, I'm glad I'm not a man or doing the mans part! It's bad enough thinking of some stylish stuff to throw into your routine without having to lead as well!

Do you find that being used to leading, helps you to follow better?

I tried leading for a month to help out at my local venue and hated every moment of it! Some of the women I was dancing with were like a bunch of pinocchios! Just so wooden! Then one of them hurt my shoulder and I gave up! :rolleyes:

[TiggsTours]

But you can! I've seen ya!:nice:

Aww, shucks! :blush:

(Cheque's in the post!)


Do you find that being used to leading, helps you to follow better?

DEFINATELY!!! And after dancing with all the guys I know who can follow, I'd say the same is definately true when vice versa!

[Donna]

DEFINATELY!!! And after dancing with all the guys I know who can follow, I'd say the same is definately true when vice versa![/QUOTE]

You get the guys to follow?! I like that! I've tried it once and..well, it didn't go to well! I put him in a drop too! :rofl:

[Tessalicious]

My answer to this question varies from situation to situation.

I almost always don't do classes as a follower anymore, except sometimes when taxiing. This is for several reasons, but primarily because doing classes as a follower is frustrating and I don't learn as much in a half hour lesson as I would from a single dance with any one good leader (except about how to backlead without being noticed :blush: ). However, workshops or fixed-partner classes with top teachers I would choose to do as a follower with a regular partner, since I could learn much more this way.

I have days when my leading is dire and unimaginative, in which case I would much prefer to follow, except for with a few very good friends who will forgive me even if I dance badly with them! On the other hand I have days where I am feeling far too independent and highly-strung to be a good follower, in which case I take the chance to have lots of dances as a leader. When I'm having a good-all-round day, I like to do a variety of both, depending on the song and the available partners.

I guess being a lead is great fun because you get to be in control, you get to set the mood and pace of a dance, and of course you get to dance with the followers, while being a follower is great fun because you get to relax and not have to think too much, but try out stylistic additions and flourishes without spoiling the flow, and you get to dance with all the loverly leaders. So my absolute favourite has to be being able to do both*!

*although it makes it much harder to get round to dancing with everyone you want to dance with in one evening :tears:

[Lou]

So my absolute favourite has to be being able to do both*!

Totally agreed. Plus it was a complete pleasure to keep switching with you at FL the other week. You're a bit good at hijacking! :clap:

[Andy McGregor]

I'm a much better leader than I am a follower. Although there has been the odd night where guys have asked me to dance because they thought I was the best woman there :wink:

If I'm to compare leading with standard following I prefer leading - it's a bit like comparing driving and being a passenger in the same car: you're both on the same journey but only the driver chooses where you go. If I were to compare leading with following where I back-lead, hijack and generally show off, I think that I like both equally.

But we do need to consider the question. How do we measure fun. And the question that this question prompts me to ask. Men vs women - who enjoys sex the most?

[under par]

But we do need to consider the question. How do we measure fun. And the question that this question prompts me to ask. Men vs women - who enjoys sex the most?


Surely the answer will lie with whom you lie with.

[Andreas]

Surely the answer will lie with whom you lie with.
:rofl:

I was gonna give you some rep for so much wisdom but the board did not allow for so much generosity at this point. :respect:

[Lynn]

I've just started to learn lead, at the moment I'm going through a phase where leading in the class then dancing with beginner guys is making my following worse, but I'm sure this will pass. For classes, I'm enjoying learning to lead - I love learning. Its also nice to be able to get ladies up for a dance, esp on an evening if there is a shortage of men.

But following would definitely be my choice. I love it, I feel I have much more connection with my partner when I follow. (And esp in tango, I like the man being in charge! :what: )

[Donna]

And the question that this question prompts me to ask. Men vs women - who enjoys sex the most?
Tut Tut! Trust Andy to come up with a question like this! :rofl:

[Andy McGregor]

Tut Tut! Trust Andy to come up with a question like this! :rofl:It illustrates the silliness of the original question - the answer is usually 'depends'.

[Donna]

It illustrates the silliness of the original question - the answer is usually 'depends'.

I agree.. tis a stupid question.

[Feelingpink]

... And the question that this question prompts me to ask. Men vs women - who enjoys sex the most?Women. Ooh, hang on, did you mean with or without partners? :devil:

[Donna]

Women. Ooh, hang on, did you mean with or without partners? :devil:


:rofl:

[CJ]

Men vs women - who enjoys sex the most?

Who's leading?!?:confused:

[Donna]

Who's leading?!?:confused:

Well the man leads but following is much more enjoyable so er...the woman! :grin:

[LMC]

I prefer following, mainly because a) I get bored with my limited repertoire as a leader and b) because as TT (I think, just read 2 pages, too lazy to scroll back up) said, you can "go with the flow more".

However, as my leading has improved, I enjoy leading more - and sometimes, like Tessalicious, I even find myself more in the mood for leading than following. So I'm going to keep working at my lead.

Lead switching is fun :D - but I think I'll always prefer to be a follower.