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View Full Version : Can MJ Spotlight routines win?



Gus
28th-June-2004, 11:30 PM
{ODA Mode On}
Its become clear that for cabret routines sticking to a recognisable Modern Jive style is a liability. The death knell was initially sounded by the (in)famous Dan Baines routine at the Ceroc 99 Champs where the routine was so far ahead of anyone else that it was banned for not having enough MJ content. :sick: However, the routines that will be picking up the trophies have less and less MJ. The cabaret routines at MJC8 were a clear indication of that. The clearest examples was the Adam/Tas routine, wonderfull to watch, exciting, innovative, medal potential ... and b*gger all MJ!

The die is cast ... bring on the Street Jazz dancers, the WCS and Lindy Pros ... ang the 'amateur' competitor can kiss goodbye forever any hope of not looking totlay outclassed :sad:
{ODA Mode Off}

Well ... does the above statement hold any truth? Should an element of MJ be compulsory at what are at the end of the day MJ competitions, or should be total free format? Has the day of the local club dancer having a crack for the fun of it over and done? Must admit to having very mixed feelings over this area of competition at the moment.

Tiggerbabe
29th-June-2004, 08:10 AM
{ODA Mode On}
the 'amateur' competitor can kiss goodbye forever any hope of not looking totlay outclassed :sad:
{ODA Mode Off}

Well ... does the above statement hold any truth?
Emma and Alex? Phil and Aleks? Both routines from this year and
both looked to me to be about 90-95% Ceroc/MJ - outclassed - I don't think so :drool: :worthy: :worthy: :worthy:

Gadget
29th-June-2004, 08:43 AM
{ODA Mode On}
Its become clear that for cabret routines sticking to a recognisable Modern Jive style is a liability. ...the routines that will be picking up the trophies have less and less MJ. ... and b*gger all MJ!{ODA Mode Off}
:confused:
I've not seen any of the people dance that are quoted - but surley the claims to include or exclude "Modern Jive" style would have to invove a definition of what it is? Or is it more a case of what it isn't?: If so, what isn't MJ?

Gus
29th-June-2004, 08:53 AM
:confused:
I've not seen any of the people dance that are quoted - but surley the claims to include or exclude "Modern Jive" style would have to invove a definition of what it is? Or is it more a case of what it isn't?: If so, what isn't MJ?

Well WCS ISNT MJ .... R&B/Hip Hop ISNT MJ. I was being as simple as that.

TheTramp
29th-June-2004, 09:22 AM
Emma and Alex? Phil and Aleks? Both routines from this year and
both looked to me to be about 90-95% Ceroc/MJ - outclassed - I don't think so :drool: :worthy: :worthy: :worthy:
Not to forget Will & Kate, and of course Clayton & Janine, both of whom have done fantastic routines. Or how about some Aussie MJ routines that Nicky & Robert, or Deb and Ben have done?

Though, I do agree that Adam & Tas put on a fantastic routine, and were worthy winners at Ceroc this year.

Of course, it's difficult to say - since if people doing other styles turned up at Ceroc or other MJ competitions, they may well sweep the board. So far they haven't. Be interesting to see how they would do if they did....

Trampy

bigdjiver
29th-June-2004, 11:44 AM
Well WCS ISNT MJ .... R&B/Hip Hop ISNT MJ. I was being as simple as that. No argument on Hip Hop/R&B, but to me MJ is a generic term, and Swing / Lindy / Jitterbug / WCS / ballroom / Rock & Roll / Trad Jive are all forms of jive, and hence MJ, and dancers are free to incoporate as much or as little from them as they choose. The old Le Jive championships adopted this approach, and I think all flavours of the dance benefited from it.

To me the essence of MJ is that it is a led dance, and there should be minimal "educated" separate movements. I think that there should be a definite distinction between a MJ showcase / spotlight routine, and just a showcase / spotlight routine, where it just about expression and entertainment through dance, and testing boundaries should be a recurrent feature.

DavidB
29th-June-2004, 12:46 PM
It is not very easy doing showcase competitions. Some want a lot of Modern Jive (eg 70% in Australia) whereas others used to encourage other dance forms (Ceroc London). And some competitors don't care - they just do what they want to do, and still entertain the crowd and win (eg Ash Nazir).

I don't think there are quite enough competitors yet to split it into 'MJ Showcase' and 'Non-MJ Cabaret'. Perhaps more importantly there isn't enough time at the competitions. Perhaps when a comp moves to a whole weekend event we might see something like this.



No argument on Hip Hop/R&B
{snip}
To me the essence of MJ is that it is a led dance, and there should be minimal "educated" separate movements.I have seen lead & follow hip-hop. I've also seen a lot more partnered dancing in recent videos on MTV - I was told it is a Jamaican influence???

It almost certainly could be incorporated into MJ. Probably not by me though - it has taken me 18 years to move my feet, never mind my body.

David

Rachel
29th-June-2004, 01:56 PM
I don't think it's so much a case of modern jive or not ... There are some spectacular winning (pure??) MJ spotlights, as in Blackpool this year. It seems to be more a case that our expectations have shot up over the last couple of years - it's no longer enough to do a stylish, technically perfect, standard 'Ceroc' routine and expect to win. You have to add that something extra these days - whether that's incredible lifts, hip hop style, or whatever. The audience and judges are hungry for anything that's different and new. Most of us are exposed to so much fantastic dancing nowadays, it's a lot harder to impress us!!

At least, when I watch people like Clayton and Janine, I feel like - with 50 years solid practise of about 20 hours a day - I could perhaps 'get there'. With Adam and Tas, who are equally awesome, I just think - 'not a hope in hell!!!'
Rachel

Sheepman
29th-June-2004, 02:01 PM
Well WCS ISNT MJ .... R&B/Hip Hop ISNT MJ. I was being as simple as that. But it's not simple.
When learning WCS you start with basic footwork, (as well as a lot of attention being paid to lead and follow), after you move on past the basics, you get to realise that it's about musical interpretation, and in freestyle there are no holds barred. (OK for some of us it takes years to get this far :tears: ). On the dance floor it's the music that leads, and it can be very difficult to see the basic structure for much of ythe time. Does any of this sound familiar to MJivers? MJ borrows styles and moves from all sorts of dances, so if I'm doing WCS moves in MJ, (maybe with a partner who has never done WCS) what style of dance am I doing?

Similarly with hip hop, Tas and Adam teach MJ with a mix of WCS/hip hop style and moves. Just because it's much harder (for me at any rate) than most MJ lessons, does this mean it's not MJ?

Greg

Gordon J Pownall
29th-June-2004, 02:14 PM
{ODA Mode On}
Its become clear that for cabret routines sticking to a recognisable Modern Jive style is a liability. The death knell was initially sounded by the (in)famous Dan Baines routine at the Ceroc 99 Champs where the routine was so far ahead of anyone else that it was banned for not having enough MJ content. :sick: However, the routines that will be picking up the trophies have less and less MJ. The cabaret routines at MJC8 were a clear indication of that. The clearest examples was the Adam/Tas routine, wonderfull to watch, exciting, innovative, medal potential ... and b*gger all MJ!

The die is cast ... bring on the Street Jazz dancers, the WCS and Lindy Pros ... ang the 'amateur' competitor can kiss goodbye forever any hope of not looking totlay outclassed :sad:
{ODA Mode Off}

Well ... does the above statement hold any truth? Should an element of MJ be compulsory at what are at the end of the day MJ competitions, or should be total free format? Has the day of the local club dancer having a crack for the fun of it over and done? Must admit to having very mixed feelings over this area of competition at the moment.

It does if RobC is voting....

TheTramp
29th-June-2004, 02:38 PM
It does if RobC is voting....
Stop that. You're just being petty now. And you're above that...

Trampy

Gordon J Pownall
29th-June-2004, 03:32 PM
Stop that. You're just being petty now. And you're above that...

Trampy

OK

...sorry Steve :whistle:


....sorry Rob..... :innocent:


I'll play nicely from now on.... :whistle:

Gus
29th-June-2004, 07:02 PM
Similarly with hip hop, Tas and Adam teach MJ with a mix of WCS/hip hop style and moves. Just because it's much harder (for me at any rate) than most MJ lessons, does this mean it's not MJ?

Greg

BUT ... the Tas/Adam HipHop classes I did at MJC were based, quite rightly, on R&B music which is NOT MJ-able. R&B is around 90-100 BPM, MJ is based round 120 to 150 .... BIG difference. Although MJ can use some Hip Hop type moves I would suggest that you cant get a true HipHop/MJ fusion to anywhere like the extent that you can get a legit HipHop/Lindy fusion.

Sheepman
30th-June-2004, 02:38 PM
BUT ... the Tas/Adam HipHop classes I did at MJC were based, quite rightly, on R&B music which is NOT MJ-able. R&B is around 90-100 BPM, MJ is based round 120 to 150 .... BIG difference. I'd only partly agree with this, after all there is plenty of R&B around 110bpm, and on Friday night I was playing plenty of tracks below 120 that were getting the MJers onto the dance floor.


Although MJ can use some Hip Hop type moves I would suggest that you cant get a true HipHop/MJ fusion to anywhere like the extent that you can get a legit HipHop/Lindy fusion. True enough, once you start trying to do moves at 240 bpm+ (ie double timing for Hip Hop) it can get a bit exciting, but that won't stop me trying! But much the same applies with WCS moves, if you do them in MJ, you are likely to adapt them and change the timing of them. I still have as much trouble defining what is NOT MJ as to what is.

Greg