Rules for stepping back

[charlie_no_socks]

- There isn't any difference in the dance.
- There is no real difference in the way that it is taught. Some people say that Leroc classes have more technique, .

From what I have seen Leroc normally teaches girls to step back left and guys to step back right, then bring feet together. If pushed to explain footwork I have seen Ceroc teachers say for guys to step back left, and girls back right.

[cerocmetro]

From what I have seen Leroc normally teaches girls to step back left and guys to step back right, then bring feet together. If pushed to explain footwork I have seen Ceroc teachers say for guys to step back left, and girls back right.

Really :confused: News to me.
I have always told girls to try and get used to stepping back with the right as I believe it makes a lot of the moves easier for them, as for the guys, I have always maintained they should step back with the opposite foot to the hand they holding with. :eek:

Adam

[DavidB]

as for the guys, I have always maintained they should step back with the opposite foot to the hand they holding withAdam teaches this wonderful 2 handed move called the 'Pogo'

[cerocmetro]

Adam teaches this wonderful 2 handed move called the 'Pogo'

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I thought, should I go into blurb about double handed moves, nah no-one is going to really pick up on it :rofl: , well not for about 1 minute anyway. Mr B

But what a great name for a move :grin:

[Andy McGregor]

Really :confused: News to me.
I have always told girls to try and get used to stepping back with the right as I believe it makes a lot of the moves easier for them, as for the guys, I have always maintained they should step back with the opposite foot to the hand they holding with. :eek:

Adam

So, this stepping back thing, must be something new. How far do you step back? Is it 3 Jive Masters 2003 videos laid end to end or 4?:devil:

[cerocmetro]

So, this stepping back thing, must be something new. How far do you step back? Is it 3 Jive Masters 2003 videos laid end to end or 4?:devil:

Andy, I am trying to help the dancing community with valid dancing tips. If I did not know you better, I'd say you were being a touch sarcastic :rofl:

Anyway, if you must know 3 is OK for anyone under 5'7" but 4-5 up to 6'4".

Anyone taller should not be dancing as it just makes me look silly(er)

Adam

[Andy McGregor]

Anyway, if you must know 3 is OK for anyone under 5'7"

Adam

As we both know, 5' 7" is the perfect height for a male dancer. Any taller is definitely very silly - especially if they aren't balding:tears:

[charlie_no_socks]

Really :confused: News to me.
I have always told girls to try and get used to stepping back with the right as I believe it makes a lot of the moves easier for them, as for the guys, I have always maintained they should step back with the opposite foot to the hand they holding with. :eek:

Adam

I guess different ceroc teachers do it differently - I think it was Viktor and later Hanna I saw saying ladies back right, men back left. Also Nigel, who I think was Ceroc, not Leroc trained. Does CTA give guidlines on which footwork to teach or is it left up personal preference?

I get the girl bit, but what's the reason for the guys stepping back on the opposite foot to their hand? Have you found that easier, looks better or both? And what do you suggest for double hand moves?

[bigdjiver]

Going into a wrap I would step back with same foot as holding. If going into a side to side I would step back with the opposite foot.

[ChrisA]

going into a side to sideAh but there's your mistake... :whistle:

[Gus]

I guess different ceroc teachers do it differently - I think it was Viktor and later Hanna I saw saying ladies back right, men back left. Also Nigel, who I think was Ceroc, not Leroc trained. Does CTA give guidlines on which footwork to teach or is it left up personal preference?

I've taugt the odd lesson (well .. not that odd) at a LeRoc venue. I'm originaly CTA trained but the differences didnt appear to be that major. Bit more attention to footwork, step back in the basket rather than twist, men step back in 1st move on beat 4 rather than returning to the beat 2 position .... actualy,, I think I prefer the LeRoc variations. I've noticed that some of the Blitz instructors teach yoyos different to CTA style .. never sure whether its a LeRoc style, 'old' Ceroc (things have changed a fair bit over the last 10 years) or just personal preference ....... OOOPPS ... soory ... WAYYYYYYYYYY off thread.:blush:

[Lou]

I have always told girls to try and get used to stepping back with the right as I believe it makes a lot of the moves easier for them,
It would actually make the moves harder for me. Particularly any moves that involve the lady spinning or turning. If I spin to my right, it's far easier to keep my balance by putting my right foot back. Same applies to left spins - left foot goes back.

Years of LeRoc lessons have taught me that a typical move (such as a First Move, Hatchback, etc) is then often followed by a unwind move (like a return, free spin, etc). The typical move (my terminology - but I hope you'll understand what I'm trying to describe) usually involves me spinning to my right, so when I exit that move I step back on my right. Then as I'm returned, I will turn to my left & end up on my left foot - ready to start another move. And that's why LeRoc teachers will usually tell the ladies to step back on their left.

Moves that I prefer to start with my right foot back are returns, sways, free spins, baskets and catapults. Combs & Overhead Change/Hallelujahs are optional footed. :wink: Everything else, I step back on my left.

I'm not a natural dancer - I need logical theory & technique in order to help - and this works well for me. I'd be interested to hear from other ladies (particularly Ceroc ladies) how they keep their balance coming out of turns & spins & whether they use a similar spin left/left foot back technique.

[bigdjiver]

Ah but there's your mistake... :whistle: I don't make mistakes, I develop my own style :nice:

[spindr]

I'm not a natural dancer - I need logical theory & technique in order to help - and this works well for me. I'd be interested to hear from other ladies (particularly Ceroc ladies) how they keep their balance coming out of turns & spins & whether they use a similar spin left/left foot back technique.

The footwork I was taught for spins, etc., was:

"Start position: Left (right) foot forwards and (consequently) right (left) foot back.
start. To spin anti-clockwise (clockwise) on the left (right) foot, whilst bringing the right (left) foot to close feet together.
1. Stop the spin by braking onto the right (left) foot, in-place.
2. If led to step away, then step backwards onto the left (right) foot — returning to the opposite starting position, i.e. right (left) foot forwards and (consequently) left (right) foot back..

Note: The foot that is spun on, is the same foot that steps backwards on the last step."

Coincidentally, it is pretty similar to the footwork used to do single spins in Salsa.

SpinDr.

[Lou]

<snip method>:nice: That sounds exactly like the technique I try to follow, but far better described.

Which still leaves me puzzled as to why it would be easier if I stepped back on my right at the start of a move...:sick: Adam - help me, please!

[Andy McGregor]

I've worked out why I've been having a problem with this debate about which foot my partner and I step back with at the start of a move - much of the time I step forward when my partner steps back or back when my partner steps forward.

For ages now I've been choosing whether or not to follow my partners feet with mine, especially when in the classic ballroom, frame type, hold. In other words, I will often step forward on the opposite leg to the one my partner has used to step back.

In the lesson I think students should do what the teacher teaches. In freestyle the follower should move whichever foot the leader has led them to move. To have a rule that the woman always steps back with one foot or the other at the start of a move removes the other 3 of the 4 most obvious options which are forward or back with either foot - and I'm sure there are other options like not moving your feet at all or moving them sideways, etc.

p.s. I think there's a whole new thread here as quite a few of the most recent posts have been on this topic.

[Lou]

In the lesson I think students should do what the teacher teaches. In freestyle the follower should move whichever foot the leader has led them to move. To have a rule that the woman always steps back with one foot or the other at the start of a move removes the other 3 of the 4 most obvious options which are forward or back with either foot - and I'm sure there are other options like not moving your feet at all or moving them sideways, etc.

I reckon that the step back at the start of a move should actually be considered as the step back at the end of the previous move. Of course, you’re right that the leader is at liberty to lead an alternative ending in freestyle like a step forward, sideways, or whatever!

It all comes back to the way that modern jive is taught. There’s a convention that starts in beginner classes that a move that contains a clockwise spin for the lady (say, a First Move) is followed by an anticlockwise spinning move (such as a return). It allows us, amongst other things, to keep our balance! So, say you had a beginner’s routine of First Move + Figure of 8 + Hatchback, you’d be taught it with a return (or similar) between each move. You would never normally go straight into one move from the predecessor; it would just feel too awkward. You need the lady to unwind. And because these “unwind moves” contain an anticlockwise turn, the lady will step back on her left foot (as per the theory in the previous posts). I guess it’s also taught as a step backwards in order to maintain the compression/leverage techniques of lead & follow. And that’s why, in a lesson environment, I’d say it’s easier for the lady to step back on her left to start the vast majority of moves, particularly when it comes time to put the lesson moves together. The man's footwork is far less important!

[charlie_no_socks]

It all comes back to the way that modern jive is taught. There’s a convention that starts in beginner classes that a move that contains a clockwise spin for the lady (say, a First Move) is followed by an anticlockwise spinning move (such as a return). It allows us, amongst other things, to keep our balance!


I think that convention may be just for beginners to make things easier to learn. I'm sure there are many dancers who could lead firstmoves into other moves with no return, without being awkward or loosing balance.

Also, the best dancers I have seen seem to be able to play with their footwork as much as they like, including which foot they step back on. I guess beginners sometimes need a more structured approach. It doesn't seem to matter which approach the teacher chooses, as long as it’s consistent.

In salsa, the footwork patterns are taught much more rigorously. But even then, the best dancers seem to be totally free from the guidelines taught to beginners when they freestyle.

Like someone said, eventually a lot of footwork is led. In a Manhattan, for example, that would be back right for the lady, back left for the guy. Any other way and you get sore knees and toes.

[Lou]

I think that convention may be just for beginners to make things easier to learn.
Indeed. :nice: And also Intermediates in the vast majority of modern jive classes I've been to. It's based in Jive & allows the dance to flow well (which is, of course, one of the reasons we dance it).

I'm not making myself clear enough here, I'm afraid. I'm not saying that there should be a rule that states the lady must always go back on her left. In Adam Cerocmetro's (what a lovely last name, btw... :wink: ) message he said he advises always stepping back on the right in his classes - however, if there needs to be a fixed foot, it would make more sense for it to be the left because of the likelihood of the previous move done.

Yes - in freestyle, dance whatever footwork you're capable of (but I think I already said that). It's great to see innovation.


gives Charlie a sock - you're free now...

[cerocmetro]

:nice: That sounds exactly like the technique I try to follow, but far better described.

Which still leaves me puzzled as to why it would be easier if I stepped back on my right at the start of a move...:sick: Adam - help me, please!

Ok, I need to get my head round this. I agree with footwork on spins. Do eg a first move from clockwise spin, Stepped back on right, step in right left then take right foot behind. First move from anticlockwise, step back left, left right left, step back right, there is a check step added to get back onto the right, or lady does not step in and relies on man stepping in further, taking lady a little off balance.

Why have extra step all the time, easier just to step back on the right.

Do ladies do more spins to left or right? I think clockwise.

There are many returns but so many ladies do a triple step when freestyling. Many don't even realise.

Conclusion. Glad I'm a bloke. :grin:

[Andy McGregor]

Conclusion. Glad I'm a bloke. :grin:

I'm sure you are: any girl with your hairline would be suicidal:wink:

[spindr]

Do ladies do more spins to left or right? I think clockwise.

Well, while watching the election results, I dug around a bit and uploaded a categorised list of moves (http://www.afterfive.co.uk/guide/latest/html/map-start.html).

Seems most moves start clockwise (or no rotation) -- that might have some effect?

SpinDr

[Lou]

Seems most moves start clockwise (or no rotation) -- that might have some effect? That would indicate it'd be easiest to do a step forward onto the right foot for the spin (so the left foot would be back). *smug* :wink:

Seriously, though, I was getting fed up with trying to work all this out in my head, so went out last night to experiment. Due to an extreme shortage of males I danced the man's part a lot in freestyle - so I tried to leave out returns & stuff. I lead fairly well but I found it very tricky, much of it is *so* ingrained following years of classes - plus I had to think a whole lot quicker. I asked the ladies for their feedback - most found it OK, a little odd - it felt weird, but fine.

Now I'm trying to do the First Move footwork in my office (much to the amusement of Joe The Colleague). Works fine from either foot back. I make it that there's an extra step at the start if I'm back on my right, unless I don't transfer weight when I bring my feet together as the man brings me into his side (before the step back), but I don't like that, as it's harder to pause that beat - unless you do the variation where you step straight back, or stick in a tripple step for that beat... It's odd, because it's exactly the opposite of what Adam got. :what:

I think more experimentation is required! :wink:

[cerocmetro]

It's odd, because it's exactly the opposite of what Adam got. :what:
I think more experimentation is required! :wink:

Don't forget I am off to live in NZ where everything is in reverse :whistle:
But I still reckon it is easier for ladies to step back with right foot.

this is not based on science but stubborness :devil:

Adam

[Andy McGregor]

I'm sure you are: any girl with your hairline would be suicidal:wink:

Hey, I got negative rep for this post. The comment was "you just so deserve this":tears:

My anonymous negative rep giver is not only a coward, he/she is also unable to understand the gentle cut and thrust of playful name calling between friends. I will not call you names, I don't know who you are and I would prefer it if you stayed anon, in fact, I would prefer it if you played elsewhere:flower:

[under par]

Hey, I got negative rep for this post. The comment was "you just so deserve this":tears:

:
It wasnee me I would sign any neg rep :devil: :hug:

[Andy McGregor]

It wasnee me I would sign any neg rep :devil: :hug:

It's alright for you 7 foot tall policemen, no sane man would try to thump you:sick:

[Amir]

Don't forget I am off to live in NZ where everything is in reverse :whistle:
But I still reckon it is easier for ladies to step back with right foot.

this is not based on science but stubborness :devil:

Adam

yeah, I also tend towards the right foot theory, at least for beginners: most people start off taking one step per count, before adding triple steps or kick ball changes. Because almost everyone teaches girls to step back right in the close part of a first move, basket, manhattan, closed neck break etc (when you are side by side) that would mean you would end up back right on the other side, since there are four counts to a bar. (Assuming you do actually step back at the end of the move. If you step forward then you’ve replaced the step back right with a step forward right. Which is different from stepping back left, although you still end up back on your left. I find if I read the above out loud three times I enter a calm but temporary trance-like state of confusion.)

Also, if you look at modern-jive's predecessors, such as swing and jitterbug, you'll find that most moves are rounded off with a rock step, which is back right for the lady, back left for the guy. (Even if you have inserted triple steps and kicks or whatever. )

I spoke with a Leroc teacher once who explained that although they teach girls to step back left, that is only because they believe cutting out the rock step equivalent is easier for beginners. (If I understood correctly.) I can see the logic, and that teaching system is obviously working for them, but for me it feels more complicated to explain ‘start of back left, but when you come into a first move step back right, then come back out left, unless he turns you clockwise in which case you should step back right.)

I’ve found it easier just to say ‘always step back right and take one step per count’. If I ever lead someone who hasn’t danced before, the only advice I normally give is ‘step back right’ and then everything seems to slot into place.

In NZ I think you’ll find ‘back right for the lady’ quite common, because they do so many manhattans and manhattan variations. Or at least they used to. It has been a while.

[bigdjiver]

Hey, I got negative rep for this post. The comment was "you just so deserve this":tears:

My anonymous negative rep giver is not only a coward, he/she is also unable to understand the gentle cut and thrust of playful name calling between friends. I will not call you names, I don't know who you are and I would prefer it if you stayed anon, in fact, I would prefer it if you played elsewhere:flower:A gentle thrust can cut so very deeply,
you may not see the blood,
and will not feel the pain.
A gentle blow, may cause you some bruising,
but it may remind you,
not to thrust again.

[Andy McGregor]

A gentle thrust can cut so very deeply,
you may not see the blood,
and will not feel the pain.
A gentle blow, may cause you some bruising,
but it may remind you,
not to thrust again.

Great post:clap:

Adam and I both fight at the same weight - and height:tears: He makes a fun sparring partner and can easily hold his own in any 'debate' with me.

What annoyed me was an ungrammatical 3rd party deciding to come to Adam's defence: it's insulting to Adam's intelligence and shows a lack of understanding of the dynamics of relationships on the Forum.

Here endeth the sermon:flower:

[Lou]

Because almost everyone teaches girls to step back right in the close part of a first move, basket, manhattan, closed neck break etc (when you are side by side) that would mean you would end up back right on the other side, since there are four counts to a bar. Good point - although I tend to remember it as stepping back on the outside foot.


I spoke with a Leroc teacher once who explained that although they teach girls to step back left, that is only because they believe cutting out the rock step equivalent is easier for beginners.So we have a recognised difference between LeRoc & Ceroc - so I guess that helps answer Elaine's question from earlier. :nice:

Apologies for diverting from the original topic - maybe a kind hearted moderator could sort out & move this stuff to another thread? :flower:

Aha! They have! Thank you! :grin:

[Franck]

So we have a recognised difference between LeRoc & Ceroc - so I guess that helps answer Elaine's question from earlier. :nice:
Apologies for diverting from the original topic - maybe a kind hearted moderator could sort out & move this stuff to another thread? :flower:I have now moved the thread so you can discuss footwork to your heart's content :D

The above discussion has puzzled me greatly and made me grateful we don't enforce a specific footwork pattern on Beginners.
My philosophy has always been to avoid specifying a foot, but to let people experiment with what works.
If it feels right, don't change it, if something doesn't work, try the other foot.

All the debating only re-inforces my view that you could justify stepping back on either foot. You can even avoid stepping back altogether is you're good at shifting / transferring your weight.

A lot of Beginners who have been told to use this or that foot when doing a move end up looking stilted, overly concentrating and generally dancing less 'naturally'.
Each dancer is different, and for every person who prefers stepping back on their right foot, there will be one who prefers the left!

I would rather teach people to follow their hand, pay attention to their partner's (and their own) momentum, therefore ensuring that their feet will end up where they should be.

There is a place for footwork, but not in a dictatorial fashion (ie: "you must step back on your right foot!")

[TheTramp]

:yeah:

Well said Franck :)

Trampy

[Gordon J Pownall]

Well,

dancers will usually do their own thing anyways and unless teaching specific footwork / moves that require defined foot movements, I always encourage people to step back with the same foot as the hand hold ie, men holding L to R, men step back with the L.

The reason being is that the dancers a remore likely to step back square on to their partner as opposed twisting their body away. This is good for balance, posture and of course that elusive thing - eye contact !!!

How many dances do you have where the person you are dancing with is twisting away, avoiding (consciously or sub consciously) eye contact - :kiss: either that or they check that their feet are still there...

Stepping back with the same foot as hand hold keeps, for the most part, dancers facing each other...something I encourage in beginners classes / beginners workshops.....

[Andy McGregor]

Well

remore

Is this the Dr Drake Remore last seen stepping backwards and falling down a well in Days of Our Lives, the character was played by Joey in the fictional soap in the fictional sit-com., Friends?

Which foot did he step back with? Was he pushed? We'll probably never know:devil:


And just to support Gordy Baby's post. I agree that the girl would normally go back on the foot on the same side as the hand being pushed back. Although I don't think men have to step back on the opposite foot. They don't have to do anything. But whatever they do it should take into account the foot they've led their partner to move: whatever foot that was and whatever direction that foot moved in.

[Lou]

Is this the Dr Drake Remore last seen stepping backwards and falling down a well in Days of Our Lives,
Nah - that would be Dr Drake Ramore! :D


And just to support Gordy Baby's post. I agree that the girl would normally go back on the foot on the same side as the hand being pushed back.
Actually - we'd go back on either foot - depending on the direction of the push. The lady has a right hand hold for the vast majority of moves, so we get used to interpreting what you want us to do from that connection. ;)

I like Gordon's theory of right foot back stops the lady overturning. It certainly would do that. However, it would make going into a move that needed (or was aided by) an overturn (such as a Side to Side) that bit harder. Plus, of course, I still have my spin theory. So I'm still not convinced always Right is Right! :na:

[Foofs]

I have to say I tend to step back on my right foot and it has worked so far (I think!) ... I have just tried to step back with my left foot and it feels too weird! :what:

I would like to contribute to the why debate though... In rock 'n' roll, the male dancer *almost* always dances with his left foot and the female dancer with her right. This is so that the dancers are effectively a mirror image of each other (that is not what it's called, but that is a whole other discussion!!). Anyway, I think that is why I use my right foot predominately. I also agree that it makes a couple look like they are dancing as a couple. However, it is also very true that if someone is not comfortable in what they are doing it will translate into an uncomfortable-looking dance.

Anyway, that is my rant for today! Enjoy your evening!! :cheers:

[Andy McGregor]

Nah - that would be Dr Drake Ramore! :D

It was the only typo I had to work with:wink:

Come on Gordy Baby I need a much better class of typo if I'm going to seem like I'm high on LSD:confused:

[jiveoholic]

I am of the opinion that if Jive venues taught footwork, then no one would come again after the first lesson, however if they do not then lots of bad habits are learned and they get blamed for not teaching things properly from the start!

What is "properly"? I am not convinced it is to follow strict footwork like with Salsa. However there do seem to be some golden rules:

a) Dancers will find it better to turn left on their left foot and right on their right foot and then place the other foot by the side at the end of the turn and then step back on the turning foot.

b) Whether one steps on the music beat or the jive count(=2 beats), there is a problem turning right on one foot then getting to the other to turn left. Some hokus pocus must be performed, even if the lady does not know. This is a pause, a kick, a tap, or a triple-step etc.

Once a lady (usually) has found her way to change foot to be prepared for a turn and to be able to find footwork to go from one turn to another, then she will probably be happy.

[cerocmetro]

Although I don't think men have to step back on the opposite foot. They don't have to do anything. But whatever they do it should take into account the foot they've led their partner to move: whatever foot that was and whatever direction that foot moved in.

I think you are the first to mention men Andy. :clap:

I actually do think there is a right and a wrong foot for the men. :whistle: The best example of this is when I tell the men to catch from a comb with the left or right hand. After making a bit of a point about asking the men which hand felt easier and finding a high number are saying the opposite hand I tell them they are doing it wrong.

My point. I believe the men are there to lead the ladies which also means we have to keep them in balance. This means we have to allow the ladies to remain upright and not pull them onto us. If we catch right and step back right, that is precisely what we are doing. :eek: Catch right step back left not only feels better for the ladies it also looks better overall coz the move is balanced. :waycool:

I learnt this from the Tommy Cooper school of Modern Jive. :worthy: :rofl:

Before the Oracle has anything to say, when we are holding double handed we should bounce up and down and pogo. :rofl: :rofl:

Adam

[Lounge Lizard]

just had a quick glance at these posts so sorry if I am repeating anything

I teach at Hastings - on the south east coast [it's all Lercoc down here] where it is the norm for ladies to step back on the left guys right
I also teach at Dorking Leroc where this is opposite.

We have a lot of Salsa dancers try Leroc where the guy is used to the right foot lead and the lady left.

I teach a regular induction cource at Hastings for all beginners which covers the basics on footwork - left and right, spinning, hand holds, etiquete and lead/follow principles.
LL

[Lory]

Aww I wish I hadn't read this thread now! :sick: I'm probably doing it all wrong and it's too late to break the habit now! :(

[Rachel]

Aww I wish I hadn't read this thread now! :sick: I'm probably doing it all wrong and it's too late to break the habit now! :( The only conclusion I've drawn from this thread is - nothing's wrong. Or, as Franck so beautifully suggested: if it works, and it feels right, then that's all that matters.
Rachel

[Lory]

The only conclusion I've drawn from this thread is - nothing's wrong. Or, as Franck so beautifully suggested: if it works, and it feels right, then that's all that matters.
Rachel
Thanks Rachel :hug: I must have skimmed through those bits! :clap:

[Sheepman]

I actually do think there is a right and a wrong foot for the men.
Well I sort of agree and disagree here, because I think when you are starting out, it is important to have consistency, and not to be unbalancing your partner. Two of my favourite teachers have different approaches. Amir always has the man stepping back (or forward) on the left, so that the weight goes onto that foot. The other teacher I'm thinking of usually doesn't specify, and usually steps back on his right (but I think sometimes on his left), but always adjusts his foortwork such that after you have brought the woman alongside in the first move, and stepped back, he is always back on the left (outside foot). I think when you are comfortable with triple steps, and kick ball changes, then you can always swap which foot you are on, giving a more dynamic look to the dance, though I accept that this is for more advanced dancers.
IMO much more important is for the man to understand/feel which foot the woman is on, and needs to be on, to execute the next turn etc.

Greg

[Gadget]

IMO much more important is for the man to understand/feel which foot the woman is on, and needs to be on, to execute the next turn etc.How? I've never been conscious of which foot the lady is on :what: (I try not to look at feet when dancing)

Assuming that the actual movement of the lead is correct, is it possible (or even common) to miss-lead a lady into turning on the "wrong" foot? Is this more a timing thing?

[Graham]

How? I've never been conscious of which foot the lady is on :what: (I try not to look at feet when dancing)

Assuming that the actual movement of the lead is correct, is it possible (or even common) to miss-lead a lady into turning on the "wrong" foot? Is this more a timing thing?
I'm generally only conscious of it when I get it wrong. Usually if you stick to moves you do a lot you will automatically be getting it right - I mainly have the problem when I'm improvising.

[Sheepman]

How? I've never been conscious of which foot the lady is on

Assuming that the actual movement of the lead is correct, is it possible (or even common) to miss-lead a lady into turning on the "wrong" foot? Is this more a timing thing?Example of first move variations, in a normal first move, before the clockwise turn under she steps forward on her right foot - and turns on the right foot.
On an inside turn variation (or slingshot?), you have to make sure she has stepped forward on her left foot before you turn her anti-clockwise. But you don't look at her feet to deduce this :eek: you lead and feel it :really: :blush:

Greg

[Lynn]

The only conclusion I've drawn from this thread is - nothing's wrong. Or, as Franck so beautifully suggested: if it works, and it feels right, then that's all that matters.
Rachel :yeah: I step back right - possibly influenced by salsa - but I don't think about it too much - I just try to make it fit with whatever the move before was.

[cerocmetro]

Aww I wish I hadn't read this thread now! :sick: I'm probably doing it all wrong and it's too late to break the habit now! :(

Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong but what ever you did to me last week felt :yum: :drool:

Adam

[Lory]

Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong but what ever you did to me last week felt :yum: :drool:

Adam Come to think of it, it felt pretty good to me too! :blush: :D