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Amanda
13th-March-2002, 11:34 AM
Last night enjoyed yet another great evening at Culter - the venue just gets better and better. There is a real balance of ceroc regulars and new faces - a really good night guaranteed every time. And that dance floor must be the envy of cerocers Scotland-wide!

Thursdays at O'Donoghues, however, are quite a different story... I am becoming increasingly concerned about the number of intermediate dancers who are dropping out of Thursday night due to their frustration at the limitations of this venue. I even heard recently that some keen cerocers were now doing salsa at Buds Bar (a few doors down from O'Donoghues) on Thursday as they were tired of fighting for dance space and had decided to stop supporting ceroc at O'Donoghues. Ironically, of course, they still want to dance.

This increasingly leaves Thursday night with a sense of impermanence - there is always a sea of new faces and a constant turnover of people. I have talked to many 'Regulars' who have now voted with their feet and given up on Thursdays altogether. Yet those same people would still love to dance on Thursday - or at the very least have that option available.

Franck
13th-March-2002, 01:35 PM
Hi Amanda,

Welcome to the Forum and thanks for your feedback.

I am very aware of how busy the Thursday nights are in O'Donoghues, we have had a huge wave of new members in the New Year, which is great as it will ensure that Ceroc remains healthy in Aberdeen.
O'Donoghues while a great venue with a lot of atmosphere has been struggling with the recent high numbers of Cerocers. Things seem to have settled down a bit now, but I would love to have a large Ceroc venue on a Thursday. Unfortunately, it is not easy to find a venue with suitable floor that is also conveniently / centrally situated and available weekly on a Thursday night.
I have been in touch with the Forum, which would be a great venue for Ceroc, and it looks like we might be able to get a night there... Unfortunately, not a Thursday / Friday or Saturday... :(
I am currently looking at the possibility of running a third night in Aberdeen: either a Monday or a Wednesday, but probably not before the end of the summer... I am also looking for other alternative venues in the meantime.

The Tuesday nights in Culter provide a great alternative, especially since, as you say, the dance floor is so fabulous...

Franck.

julie
13th-March-2002, 04:08 PM
Hi Frank
I am really glad to see your response to amanda. I have to agree with her that thursday night has become very disapointing in the fact that so many of the regular cerocers no longer attend.

It is a shame for the beginners they they dont have the chance to dance with the more experenced dancers.
I hope you will be able to find a more suitable venue in the near future asd it really is no fun dancing on a thursday night with so many people bumping into each other.
If I was coming along for the first time I think I would be really put off.

Heather
13th-March-2002, 11:15 PM
I have only been to O'Donaghues once, on a visit to Aberdeen last October and I must say I would not be in a hurry to go back!!
It is just as well that Aberdeen has an alternative venue in Peterculter, as I for one would not be keen to go along on a Ceroc night there. We Dundee folk thought that our former Craigtay venue was a dump- it was a 'Palais de Danse' compared to O'Donaghues!!! The main thing I disliked was the cobble effect flooring which extends from in front of the bar and surrounds the tiny little dance floor- it seemed to me to be an accident waiting to happen- I'm surprised that no-one has broken an ankle or damaged some other part of their anatomy. I couldn't believe that some men were actually putting some of the ladies into 'drops', on the night I was there.
Peterculter, on the other hand, is a lovely venue, with a huge,smooth dance floor,the envy of many Ceroc clubs in Scotland, the hall is large enough that you don't get too hot either.
One question - if there are so many Cerocers in Aberdeen that Franck is considering another night, why are there so few of them at the monthly party in the Deaf Club? Any time we come up from Dundee, (and that is quite regularly), there never seem to be many new faces at the dances. There are probably more people at the Dundee dances, and we only have one Ceroc night in a week!!
Good Luck, Aberdonians- I hope you get an alternative to O'Donaghues soon .

Anne
14th-March-2002, 11:18 AM
Hi All,
With regard to O'Donough's I agree that it's both unsafe and an accident waiting to happen - main reason why I don't go on a Thursday anymore (unless Taxiing).

Tuesdays are becoming more popular which is fantastic and with such a great venue who can blame it! Our party nights I can't comment on as have only managed 3 so far. I'm sure because we have such a high turnover of new members on a Thursday very few become "regulars" and join us for the parties.

Franck - I'm delighted that your thinking of a 3rd night - O'Donough's may well still have it's place as a "social" event rather than a dancing one as it is turning into!

Anne:( :(

Franck
14th-March-2002, 11:58 AM
I would like to disagree, O'Donoghues is a small venue, and it is a shame that there are cobbles in the bar area, but I love the atmosphere and feel of the place. Moreover, the sound system is great, the air conditioning (when switched on) stops the venue from being too hot and, in my opinion, it is much better than the Craig Tay used to be in Dundee (cleaner !).
Accidents can happen at any venue (however large), and as dancers, we all need to be aware of that (especially men when leading the next move). As the other thread on Drops and lifts points out, those moves do not fit within a busy night, and are best saved for the Champs.
I am sorry to hear that some of you have stopped going to the Thursday nights, it is possible that you have literally "outgrown" the place. We are getting a huge number of new members, and most of them are coming back.
Finding a suitable venue for Ceroc is a great challenge, but sometimes, finding any venue at all is nigh on impossible... I am sure you can all remember the disruption we suffered when we moved from the Palace... :sad:

As for parties, it takes a while to build attendance (I remember how long it took to establish the Edinburgh nights in Marco's, when we had very busy nights during the week, but only about 80 Cerocers at the Saturday night parties; how things change), and in particular, new members are reluctant to go to a party night as they feel (wrongly) that they do not know enough moves to last a whole night. Recently, parties have been getting busier, and I hope the St Patrick's night on Saturday will confirm that. :waycool:

Anyway, I will be at O'Donoghues tonight, and look forward to a dance or two with anyone going. :nice:

Franck.

John S
14th-March-2002, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Franck
Recently, parties have been getting busier, and I hope the St Patrick's night on Saturday will confirm that. :waycool:



So do I - I don't want to trail up to Aberdeen on Saturday and find myself having to dance with Franck!!:( :(

Franck
14th-March-2002, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by John S
So do I - I don't want to trail up to Aberdeen on Saturday and find myself having to dance with Franck!!:( :(

Now that really hurts John :sad: :tears:

I'll let you lead if you want ??? :nice:

So, what shade of green will you be wearing?

this one

this one

or that one ?

Franck (hoping we don't clash) :really:

Tiggerbabe
14th-March-2002, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by John S


So do I - I don't want to trail up to Aberdeen on Saturday and find myself having to dance with Franck!!:( :(


Why Mr S! How terribly sexist of you, we girls dance with each other quite often so I don't think you should knock same sex dancing until you've tried it - after all the Milk Tray Guys were the toast of Blackpool.

'Fraid I am off to do some West Coast Swing on Saturday so won't be joining you but if you get a chance to practice I'll look forward to seeing you (John and Franck) dancing together soon.

:wink:

John S
14th-March-2002, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by Sheena
if you get a chance to practice I'll look forward to seeing you (John and Franck) dancing together soon. :wink:

Don't hold your breath, Sheena (or Franck:eek: )

julie
15th-March-2002, 11:26 AM
Hi Franck

I was upset to read Your comments yesterday " sorry to hear that some of you have stopped going to the thursday nights it is possible that you have literally "outgrown" the place "
Maybe you could explain what you meant by that because it sounds like that although you are sorry peole have stopped coming you have so many new members who are coming back that you are not concerned at losing so many regulars.
I hope I have picked this up wrong.

You may have had over 100 people last night and well done for that but I remember the old days at the palace when ceroc first started and there were very few people and you would have been pushed im sure to cover your petrol costs from falkirk.
We showed you loyalty then by coming week after week supporting you, telling our friends about ceroc attending your workshops when you didnt have enough numbers all because we loved dancing.
It would be nice now if you could acknowledge that loyalty. You could start by publicly acknowledging that people have expressed concerns about O'donohues. I know you have received a number of petitions but you have not to my knowledge publicly given any reply.
It is no wonder that we have decided to use this forum to push the issue with you.

It really was "murder on the dancefloor" last night.
During the class I was hit by a number of people albeit accidentally im sure but it goes to prove there is no room during the class to move. Even standing at the side waiting to go on you are in the way and are in danger of being hit by the people dancing in front of you. It is nearly impossible to see the stage from the back of the class let alone hear what is being said due to the noise level of people not doing the class.
I dont think you can appreciate what it is like from the stage maybe you should do the class with us and see what it feels like.

You say that drops and lifts shouldnt be done on a busy night i agree but it would be nice to have the room to do basic moves without the fear of colliding into the people around you.
You feel so restricted it really is uncomfortable.

I know this sounds like a real moan but I feel quite strongly as do a lot of people many of whom are unwilling to stick their necks on the line and rock the boat with you. You can be sure though although not voiced to you there is strong feeling.

I think instead of thinking of a third night you should concentrate your efforts to finding a suitable venue which can accommodate the large number of people now attending. Then hopefully it would become an enjoyable evening once more.

I guess the botom line is most of us just love to dance and want to keep coming we havent outgrown the place it has outgrown us and it just isnt fun anymore.
Last note is for Bill Im not a rebel im just trying to make a point!
Julie

Franck
15th-March-2002, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by julie
I was upset to read Your comments yesterday " sorry to hear that some of you have stopped going to the thursday nights it is possible that you have literally "outgrown" the place "
Maybe you could explain what you meant by that because it sounds like that although you are sorry peole have stopped coming you have so many new members who are coming back that you are not concerned at losing so many regulars.
I hope I have picked this up wrong.
Yes, I think you picked this up wrong. What I meant is that O'Donoghues is fine for most Cerocers / beginners, but for some, who have reached a certain stage, the limits of O'Donoghues are a real problem.
I was dancing last night, and I had a fantastic time, there was plenty of space on the dance floor (and I am not a restrained dancer by any means ;) ).
Once or twice the main dance floor was busy and I danced in the bar area (yes, on the cobbles) and I did not find this a problem at all (maybe it is just me).

Originally posted by julie
You may have had over 100 people last night and well done for that but I remember the old days at the palace when ceroc first started and there were very few people and you would have been pushed im sure to cover your petrol costs from falkirk.
We showed you loyalty then by coming week after week supporting you, telling our friends about ceroc attending your workshops when you didnt have enough numbers all because we loved dancing.
It would be nice now if you could acknowledge that loyalty. You could start by publicly acknowledging that people have expressed concerns about O'donohues.
I know you have received a number of petitions but you have not to my knowledge publicly given any reply.
It is no wonder that we have decided to use this forum to push the issue with you.
I remember these days very well too, I am very grateful and proud that Aberdeen has become so successful...
I also remember that the Palace was not perfect and neither were any of the other alternatives. :(
I am happy to acknoledge that I have received complaints about O'D, including a petition (signed by about 50 people, and I am not ignoring it. I have been looking for an alternative venue, with very little luck so far.
There is an alternative venue with a large dance floor etc... already, and it is the Tuesday night in Culter.

At the moment, in the absence of a suitable alternative for a Thursday night, I am left with 2 choices:
[list=1]
Open a 3rd night (Monday?) at the Forum, and keep the other 2 nights as they are.
Change everything round and have Tuesdays in the Forum and Thursdays at the Culter Mills club (though I do not think it is available at the moment)
[/list=1]
I have to balance many factors when choosing a venue: accessability, availability, dance floor space, facilities (ie bar, sound, etc...). The Forum, for example is great for all of them except regular availability on Thursdays / Fridays and Saturdays...
Bearing in mind that O'Donoghues is *extremely* popular, and by that I do not mean busy, I mean popular as a venue. Attracting new people to Ceroc *and* retaining new members. I am reluctant to just throw it away.
I do not see how abandoning the most successful venue in Aberdeen I would do Cerocers any favours at all, much better to have more nights / venues to choose from...

I am very keen to offer all of you a proper choice of venues, and indeed you already have a choice with the Tuesday night. I appreciate that Peterculter is not accessible to everyone, so my preference would be to offer another city centre venue on another night of the week.
Option 2 is very risky as I risk alienating pretty much everyone and lose far more dancers that way.
I am open to suggestions / 3rd ways etc...

I am happy that the subject is discussed in this Forum (this is exactly what the Forum is for). I have already posted about my discussions with the Forum. I am very aware that any night (regardless of how successful it is) can fizzle out very quickly by moving venue or changing nights etc...

Keep the feedback / suggestions coming :nice:

Franck.

julie
15th-March-2002, 02:06 PM
Hi Franck

Im glad you had a fantastic time last night and had no problem dancing on the cobbles.
I think we see things differently, I agree it did quieten down later in the evening but I had given up by then and I suppose you would see that as my lose.

I can see you have very limited opitions and choices. If you are so keen to keep O'Donoghues going maybe you should consider limiting the numbers.
I cant see any easy answers, I realise you cant keep everybody happy all the time and sometimes you have to make decisions they dont go down very well.


I look forward to hearing other peoples ideas on the subject.
Im sure there are move people out there with access to the web than are coming forward.

Look forward to seeing you tommorrow night at the party!
julie

Franck
15th-March-2002, 04:38 PM
Thanks Julie,

I am actually really pleased that we are able to discuss this as publically as possible within this forum...
It is really useful to get feedback and suggestion. It also gives me a chance to explain to everyone what my options are, whereas before, I would be talking to 1 or 2 people at a night...

As you know, I have put a huge amount of effort and commitment in Aberdeen, over the last 4 years, and I am very pleased to see it going so well... I do prefer complaints about being too busy rather than not enough though :nice:

I would open a 3rd night within weeks if I had an extra teacher trained in Aberdeen... Unfortunately, with Lorna being off on maternity leave soon, even 2 nights is going to be a challenge to cover...

I am aware that many of you are not happy, and despite some of my comments here, I do sympathize and want to get it sorted as soon as humanly possible.

Franck.

P.S. I look forward to a dance or 2 on Saturday, though I am not sure who you are ???

Niall
17th-March-2002, 09:20 PM
I feel that I must add my comments to the concerns shared by Amanda and Julie about O'Donoghues on a Thursday night.

As I read through the notes, I didn't sense any empathy with their views and didn't really get a sense that they were being taken seriously enough. As I reflect on more than two years of dancing in Aberdeen, O'Donoghues on a Thursday night at about 8.30pm is not the best place to be at for a club that aspires to grow and develop into a long term club with a future. We have lost many people since the Palace days, who love dancing but are not prepared to put up with a poor venue. I sense that the speed with which we are losing such people is escalating all the time. Soon, we will start losing people who can put up with the venue but no longer have dance partners of an equal ability to dance with.

I guess what we really need is some positive indication that something is being done about the Thursday night venue perhaps by offering alternatives to club members and engaging us in seeking an alternative. I don't think that putting on a 3rd night is necessarily the right answer.

Bill
18th-March-2002, 01:11 PM
There is no doubt that O'donoghues is not big enough for the number of people who now turn up. Quite a few new members have joined this year but it would appear that most do not stay for very long.....if they did there would be even more people every Thursday.:what:

As for the sound system......I often can't hear the announcements and that's only partly due to the chatter on the floor as they are read out ! It might be revealing if Franck did do a whole class and dance between the classes to get a feel of what it's like. There was certainly some room later on Thursday but a lot of beginners seemed to leave after the second class.

Apart from the Forum I can't think of any central venue big enough to take us. What a pity we don't have a Marco's here. That would be ideal.

The obvious problem of an extra night would be (as Franck says) getting another teacher ( who meets all the Ceroc requirements :wink: ) and even more taxi dancers. There is always the danger that an extra night would split the number who now go but 50/60 folk in O'donoghues wouldn't be nearly as bad -----Franck.......can't you get them to saw the bar in half !!!!!

It seems odd to say it now 'cus it was a real dive but the Palace was a good venue apart from the lack of taps, loo rolls in the ladies (apparently), the smell of stale beer and the awful decor. If those of us who live here can't think of many places we can hardly blame Franck for not finding somewhere new.

Niall........you have a big front room :D

At least we have Tuesday nights to spread out. Unfortunately I won't be there tomorrow night as I have a seminar in London so will probably be at the Jive Bar or at Fulham instead.

have fun

Amanda
18th-March-2002, 04:02 PM
:what: Well this wee mannie pretty much sums up my reaction to all the posts in response to my original thread re dancing at O'Donoghues...

I really appreciate the support from all those who have been willing to stick their necks on the line about this. If nothing else Franck - a few more folk have registered on the site!

Going back to my original point re the limitations imposed by the size of O'Donoghues - my (personal) concern is encapsulated by most of what Niall says and I wholeheartedly endorse his concerns.

Re the option of a 3rd night - on a certain level I think that would be wonderful but realistically I'm not convinced this is the answer. Does the city night really have to be on a Thursday? If, for example, the Forum is available on a Wednesday - why not just change the night?

Amanda

ps Who'd have ever thought that we'd miss the Palace!!!!

Franck
18th-March-2002, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by Amanda
Re the option of a 3rd night - on a certain level I think that would be wonderful but realistically I'm not convinced this is the answer. Does the city night really have to be on a Thursday? If, for example, the Forum is available on a Wednesday - why not just change the night?

Amanda

ps Who'd have ever thought that we'd miss the Palace!!!!

Hi Amanda,

The night does not have to be on a Thursday at all, and I did consider the Wednesday as an option.

My reasoning was based on the following:

- The Thursday is already well established with many (I fear we would lose much more regulars by changing the night than having a busy venue).

- O'Donoghue is a very popular venue, and as such I am not willing to give it up. If many people hate it as a venue, and have stopped coming altogether (though I am not sure that is the case), I am willing to offer a suitable alternative.

- Opening up a 3rd night on a Wednesday would not work, as it would mean 3 nights in a row in Aberdeen... Much better to give you all the option to dance 2 nights a week: Monday Thursday or Tuesday Thursday etc...

I fail to understand how a 3rd night could not be the answer. It would provide the perfect venue in the city centre and remove the need to ever go to O'Donoghues ever again for those that do not wish to.
It would also be another option for new members to try out Ceroc and get the bug :nice:
If you are serious about wanting a good dance space, then I would have thought that a night (any night) at the Forum would be exactly right. I am not sure why you would want O'Donoghues to close altogether as a Ceroc venue ! :confused:

Franck.

Franck
18th-March-2002, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by bill foreman
As for the sound system......I often can't hear the announcements and that's only partly due to the chatter on the floor as they are read out ! It might be revealing if Franck did do a whole class and dance between the classes to get a feel of what it's like. There was certainly some room later on Thursday but a lot of beginners seemed to leave after the second class.

Yes I did notice that the level of chatter on the dance floor was very high :really: :nice:
I also noticed that only half of the speakers were switched on last Thursday (ie the dance floor was fine, but the bar area seemed quieter than usual).

I will investigate further on Thursday (I will be teaching though, so will be unable to take part on the dance floor as well) :sad:
Next time, I will definitely try that though. :nice:

As for Beginners leaving after the second class, this is actually pretty good, as it shows that Taxi-dancers are doing a really good job to keep them that long :wink:
At most classes, Beginners leave very early after the beginners class ! :sad:
The feedback I am getting from new members is very good, and I would say that Aberdeen is very healthy at the moment, and hopefully still growing.

Cheers,

Franck.

Rhona
21st-March-2002, 10:00 PM
I've been reading the notes about our Aberdeen venues and I would like to add my support to the comments on O'Donoghues being far from ideal for Ceroc! It most definitely is too small and dangerous to be an enjoyable night of dancing! No wonder many of us have voted with our feet and travel to Culter on Tuesdays- the dance floor must surely be the biggest consideration when choosing a venue for a dance class and O'Ds with it's cobbles and restricted space is far too dangerous a place to be ! Aberdeen beginners must be put off by it and there's a lack of intermediate dancers around to improve with!
I don't think Franck the idea of three nights would necessarily work in Aberdeen but we would pack out a more suitable venue like the Forum - any night! We DO need a more suitable venue in the city- one that has the space to dance safely! Let's keep pushing!

John McAulay
27th-March-2002, 09:03 AM
As a new member to this web site, I was pleased to see so much debate re OÕDonoghes and wish to add my tuppence worth.

I have already intimated to Lorna, that whilst I am more than happy to taxi dance at Culter Mill SC.
I feel my dancing days at OÕDonoghes are almost over. At my age my knees find it hard to recover from dancing on the cobbles at the bar,
a location I choose because of the lack of room on the dance floor best described by another lady on this site as murder on the dance floor
And the fact that some nutter polishes it prior to Thursday night.

On Thursday night (21-03-02) I was disappointed by the lack of experienced lady dancers
and found very few who had been dancing more than 6 months.
The ladies it seems are voting with their feet and choosing not to dance Ceroc on a Thursday night.
I myself also want to dance on a Thursday but on a bigger dance floor

I was interested in the option in one of Franks earlier replyÕs on this subject,
about Culter on a Thursday and the Forum on a Tuesday, as for the option of a third night that would not suit me.
The divorce lawyers would have a field day with ÔÕme lord the accused spent most of his nights dancing Ceroc.ÕÕ
It would be better to have 2 good well attended venues than 3 venues of lesser numbers.

Frank (as I know he does read this)
Further to the lack of a suitable venue of the right size in Aberdeen.
The new owners of Oscars bar and the Capital theatre have just had permission to
convert both of these venues into a 1800 capacity nightclub.
could be a venue for the future.

Niall
27th-March-2002, 09:37 AM
All,

I really enjoyed another excellent night at the Culter Mills Club. Stating the obvious, I know, but plenty of room, the music was good and best of all, plenty of good female dancers to dance with. This was not the case last Thursday, 21 March, in O'Donoghues. Whether through bad fortune or design there was hardly any intermediate level female dancers at the class and I left early which I very, very rarely do. With the Summer approaching, I sense that I will find it easier to say 'no' to Thursday night in O'D when there is a clash of interests. This would not have been the case last year.

I would really encourge Franck to come up some viable alternatives to this venue for Thursday night class. I really do believe that putting on a third night would result in really splitting the class up. I sense from others that 2 nights a week is the right number. However, you want to believe that there is a high probablility of getting the opportunity of dancing with partners of a similar standard. This opportunity would be diluted by putting on a third night and would split the class up to the satisfaction of nobody.

Right, back to the day job. Need money to pay for these trips to Blackpool, London, Edinburgh etc etc.

Franck
27th-March-2002, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by John McAulay
As a new member to this web site, I was pleased to see so much debate re OÕDonoghes and wish to add my tuppence worth.
Hi John,
Welcome to the forum and thanks for your views and input to the debate.


Originally posted by John McAulay
It would be better to have 2 good well attended venues than 3 venues of lesser numbers.
While the dilution aspect is a very good point, it rarely happens in practise. As you say, people vote with their feet... With a third night in Aberdeen city, if O'Donoghues was so unpopular, then it would die out as a Ceroc venue.
It is quite possible that we would have 3 successful venues in Aberdeen.
At this stage, the monthly parties would become the place where all Cerocers can get together from the regular weekly nights.


Originally posted by John McAulay
Frank (as I know he does read this)
Further to the lack of a suitable venue of the right size in Aberdeen.
The new owners of Oscars bar and the Capital theatre have just had permission to
convert both of these venues into a 1800 capacity nightclub.
could be a venue for the future.

This is really helpful, thanks for the suggestion. I will investigate it further. Unfortunately if they only got permission, then it will be a while before they open... :sad:

I would like to emphasize again that while O'Donoghues is not the best venue for everyone, it is a fantastically successful venue in the sense that it attracts new members to Ceroc who would not necessarily have tried it otherwise.
The Tuesday night in Culter was opened last year to answer the limitations of O'Donoghues and offer an alternative. I am very pleased that most of you think it is a brilliant venue / night. and it is... When we opened the Tuesday night in Culter, I expected the Thursday nights to take a hit, instead, they have doubled in number... :what: and the Tuesday night is going from strength to strength (with over 80 Cerocers most Tuesdays...).

If I had a choice, I would move the Thursday to a better venue AND open a Monday night in O'Donoghues. Unfortunately, I do not have a suitable alternative on a Thursday (and nobody else has made any other suitable suggestions) and I reckon a Monday night in say the Forum would be the best solution.

Franck.

Bill
28th-March-2002, 10:27 AM
I agree with some of the comments made by both Niall and John and as I've noted before I'm not a huge fan of O'Donoghues and I do miss the experienced dancers on a Thursday.

On the positive side it's only by dancing with the more experienced men that the 'new' women will advance and quickly become experienced dancers themselves. For the newer people it must also be like it was for us in the early days when we were all new and there was no-one to look to for experience and support.........but also no-one to look to and be put off by thinking they could never be that good :what:

The one issue I would take with Franck is the constant reference to O'Donoghues being so popular............hugely popular ?? If it is so popular then wouldn't there be well over 100 people every week ? It was quite quiet last week - relatively speaking and it's quite clear that a lot of new people are not coming back. If they did there would be over 200 !!!!!!!!!!!! But I suppose if the numbers stay steady at 80 or so then that would satisfy most folk. In the English clubs the venue managers write down each member's card number so I suppose they can do a check on who turns up and how often. None of the Scottish clubs do this.

Thursday will always be a preferred night because it's the approach of the weekend and in a sense Ceroc in Aberdeen is fortunate that there is little in the way of direct competition - apart from Salsa. In England there is not only Le Roc but Blitz and a variety of dance franchises and clubs so the competition is much more fierce.

The new venue at the Capitol could be ideal but it'll be quite a while before it's open so for the time being looks as if it'll stay at O'Donoghues.

Franck
28th-March-2002, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by bill foreman
The one issue I would take with Franck is the constant reference to O'Donoghues being so popular............hugely popular ?? If it is so popular then wouldn't there be well over 100 people every week ? It was quite quiet last week - relatively speaking and it's quite clear that a lot of new people are not coming back. If they did there would be over 200 !!!!!!!!!!!!
The reason I keep repeating that O'Donoghues is so popular is plainly because the evidence is there. :)
Since we moved to O'D. numbers have spiralled up in a way that no other venue had managed in Aberdeen (and possibly Scotland !).
The success of O'D has definitely helped the rapid growth of the Culter Mills Club as indeed more people choose to dance on a larger dance floor, or dance twice a week.
Sometimes you have to accept that location / atmosphere can have as much (if not more) of an impact on a night than the size of the dance floor / sprung floor etc...
There were about 100 people last Thursday, I would say that was pretty good.
As to why we do not have 200 people going? This simply just does not happen (based on statistics from the last 10 years across Scotland). Two things happen every week:
- The first thing is that, after a year or two, some dancers drop Ceroc in favour of another priority, by then they can dance and Ceroc becomes a lower priority. They might still attend parties or the odd night, but will stop being regulars.
- Second, out of all the new members we get on any given night, we typically do well to retain 50% who will then become regulars. This happens for a variety of reasons: Ceroc is not what they are looking for, they find they are too busy to go to classes, their friends are too busy and they will not come on their own, etc...
The above explains why (with new members averaging 20 earlier in the year) numbers have grown by 50% over the last 6 months, and should now remain stable unless we get another wave of new members...

I get a lot of feedback both via this forum, by email and directly on the night, and some of it from people who love O'Donoghues.
I simply do not accept that O'Donoghues should be closed as a Ceroc venue.
I have already expressed my willingness to offer alternatives (Tuesdays in Culter / Mondays in the Forum) as soon as practically possible. I will be spending a lot of time in Aberdeen over the next few months, and will therefore be able to monitor the situation very closely.

Franck.

Bill
30th-March-2002, 12:06 AM
I think the issue of O'donoghues is now exhausted although no doubt there will still be some comments and opinions expressed here and elsewhere about its relative merits.

I think it is an ideal venue for about 50/60 people and especially for new dancers but I think the number who were there last night - down on recent weeks indicated that quite a number of dancers are - as others have said - voted with their feet !

I had a look at the people last night and I reckon only about 15 were recent members. At least 80 folk must have joined at O'Donoghues since Christmas and there were very few 'old' faces but equally very few recent recruits.

I stayed till the end last night but at the last record there were only 6 couples dancing - and no-one else standing about chatting or drinking. Everyone else had left which is highly unusual. Usually on a Thursday and certainly on a Tuesday lots of folk sit for a while chatting and finishing drinks. I think this is a bad sign Franck and with next week as a Freestyle night I think a number of folk could be lost to Thursday nights.

Everyone realises how difficult it is to find another good venue but unless the new members can be retained I think a third night may not be required. With fewer experienced dancers going on a Thursday the Tuesday night may become more popular at the expense of O'Donoghues but it may be that sufficient new people continue to join to make it an enjoyable night for those who do attend.

Franck
1st-April-2002, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by bill foreman
I think the issue of O'donoghues is now exhausted although no doubt there will still be some comments and opinions expressed here and elsewhere about its relative merits.

I think it is an ideal venue for about 50/60 people and especially for new dancers!

Thanks Bill. I agree, most of what could be said has been said now :really: :sorry :nice:

I agree that O'D. is fine for lower numbers, and was selected when numbers rarely went above 80!
How times change. :nice:

I look forward to seeing you all in Aberdeen when I'm back from sunny France :wink: :waycool:

Franck.