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View Full Version : Would a Super Club (Hipsters) work outside London



Gus
28th-May-2004, 11:57 PM
Its long been lamented by the more experienced dancers that a 'Hipsters' tyope club doesnt exist outside London. People I speak to really think it would be a great idea. HOWEVER, even in London with the greatest concentration of advanced dancers, the original Hipsters is not an unqualified success.

I would LOVE to set up a similar concept in the North West but: a) are there enough good dancers .. and b) have we got teachers up to the job.

Possibly the only other region that could possibly give it a crack would be Bristol. Does such a club exist but been kept a closely guarded secret?

Daisy
29th-May-2004, 12:51 AM
There could have been a chance for it down on the S.E coast on a Fri night at Hove but the organiser charges £2 per head extra after 9pm when the class is over............ this could put the experienced dancers off as they don't generally want to sit and watch the class for 45mins, just to qualify for the cheaper entrance fee.

Not everone wants to do the intermediate class.:sad:

Andy McGregor
29th-May-2004, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by Daisy
Not everone wants to do the intermediate class.:sad:

Well I did the class, learnt the routine, performed it for everyone and got a free bottle of Pinot Grigio:clap:

I can't see any reason not to do the class. I wasn't really an intermediate class either - it was a performance class. But it was an intermediate performance - at least it was the way I did it:tears:

But, back on thread. I believe that there is a place for a class that teaches style and technique anywhere that a dozen dancers are gathered together. The mistake people are making is looking for commercial success - this is our hobby, if we want to get good at it and have good people to dance with we should expect to pay for the priviledge. And to get good we need to do the lesson:innocent:

Lounge Lizard
29th-May-2004, 07:53 AM
err!! The hipsters success?

Tuesdays is busy cos it mixes two dance styles into one venue
wednesdays is so quiet that most local vebues have more dancers

Perhaps Hipsters success is the hype!!!

if any organiser booked Amir or viktor, to teach the regular class, nigel anderson to take the repeat beginners, roger chinn to DJ and Franco/Nigel to promote, kept them going for months and had about 50 in their class they would not consider it a success, sorry,

I get 50 at hastings and am worried that numbers need increasing.
At Dorking we get a minimum of 110 every week but feel that needs immproving.

Teaching
ok these guys are good (viktor is my fav by miles)
BUT
Scotland wins hands down
the teams and female dancers from dundee and other areas are SO good, yet no regular amir, nigel viktor etc
I guess good solid teaching with a good organiser does the trick.

Still think Franck should move to London tho :wink:

I work at Hipsters on occassions so I am not having a go at them, just observing that a lot of the hipsters success is promotion and hype by the dancing community not bums on seats (wednesdays) or pure dedication to modern jivers (tuesdays)

so I have had a bit of a go at the holy grail....flame away (where is CarlaB when U need her)
Peter

Heather
29th-May-2004, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by Lounge Lizard


Teaching
ok these guys are good (viktor is my fav by miles)
BUT
Scotland wins hands down
the teams and female dancers from dundee and other areas are SO good, yet no regular amir, nigel viktor etc
I guess good solid teaching with a good organiser does the trick.

Still think Franck should move to London tho :wink:

Peter

:clap:

HANDS OFF !!! Franck is OURS, you ain't having him!!!!:wink:

You'll have to move up here to DUNDEE, (centre of the dancing universe!!):rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:hug: :kiss:
Heather,
XX

Katie
29th-May-2004, 10:24 AM
It is true that Hipsters may not have the numbers to be defined as successful but IMO, i am glad it is not packed out every week unlike the Friday Freestyles!
For me it is a success; great teachers, dancers and music each week and it is well worth the 3hr round trip from Brighton!

ChrisA
29th-May-2004, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
Perhaps Hipsters success is the hype!!!

if any organiser booked Amir or viktor, to teach the regular class, nigel anderson to take the repeat beginners, roger chinn to DJ and Franco/Nigel to promote, kept them going for months and had about 50 in their class they would not consider it a success, sorry
Sure. If you measure it purely on numbers, nobody would call Wednesdays a success.

Historically, there weren't enough beginners in Viktor's class to make it viable. The numbers went up dramatically but temporarily after a busk, and some of those beginners progressed quite nicely to the intermediates.

The intermediate class was intended originally to be challenging, but for a number of reasons some of which I've never really understood, much of the class could never manage the routine. So the classes on Wednesdays were never a roaring success, despite being consistently beautifully taught and demoed.

After the classes, quite a few extra people turned up for the freestyle, and it's been consistently between about 60-90 I would say. Recently, Viktor left so some upheaval is inevitable as the new format beds down.

On Tuesdays (in Amir's old slot) Roger has taught some quite interesting routines so far, Nigel's class is as popular as ever, and the freestyle is well attended.

But it is different now on Wednesdays from before, and from anywhere else, and although initial numbers are very encouraging, I think it will take a little getting used to.

Wednesdays are for people who are prepared to see results develop over a period of time, rather than only being happy with the "quick fix" of a few new moves.

And so far there does seem to be an appetite for the detailed style teaching that Amir's doing.

just observing that a lot of the hipsters success is promotion and hype by the dancing community not bums on seats (wednesdays) or pure dedication to modern jivers (tuesdays)This is at least partly true.

From some of the posts here, many would be forgiven for imagining Hipsters to be, as Peter says, some kind of holy grail, with wall to wall fabulous dancers. Well it ain't like that. Sometimes it is, when all the celebs happen to turn up on the same night, and IMHO the teaching, music and dancer quality are better than at most of my alternative venues, but the streets aren't paved with gold, and there's a risk of disappointment if you turn up just for a one-off visit.

But compared with what's available elsewhere in London, I still think it's the best. Outside London, my vote would go to Twyford Ceroc.

Chris

Andy McGregor
29th-May-2004, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
err!! The hipsters success?

- snip -

just observing that a lot of the hipsters success is promotion and hype by the dancing community not bums on seats (wednesdays) or pure dedication to modern jivers (tuesdays)


Even though it pains me to agree with LL, I, mostly, do. Although, as I implied in an earlier post, I don't think you can measure quality of dancing at a venue by number of dancers attending that venue.

People that don't go to Hipsters have got it into their heads that it's the Oxbridge of Jive: people that do go to Hipsters regularly know what it is. So, for those of you that haven't been, here is what I think Hipsters is:

Nigel, Franco, JB, Amir and the Chinster want Hipsters to be the night where the 'best' dancing in the country is. A combination of Teaching, Music and Dancers in a great venue is the formula. Does Hipsters deliver this?

Teaching - The teaching is consistently fantastic - as opposed to some other classes which may have flashes but aren't as consistent.

Music - IMHO, the music is inconsistent. Most nights it's inspiring but other nights it isn't:tears: And, for the MJer, the music on Tuesdays has the added tracks of Lindy Hop to sit out. There aren't many of these and I regard them as a track to sit out, much as I would a relentless bubble-gum pop track at a Ceroc night. Oh, and Roger plays the odd Country & Western track:sick: But, thankfully, it's not many and not every week. The fact that the wrong tracks stand out so much from the other fab tracks is an indicator that the majority of the music is great. And, in balance, I would say that the music you get at Hipsters is very good and a better selection for me personally than I've ever heard at any Ceroc night (that is, of course, until I go to Dundee...).

Dancers - This is the difficult one. There is a hard core of Hipsters dancers who dance a particular way - a sort of Dean Collins style Modern Jive: slotted, smooth, non-bouncy, quite spinny, neat footwork (yes, footwork!) and obviously listening to and interpreting the music with breaks, hesitations, syncopation, etc. I like to think I'm one of them but often feel like a beginner at Hipsters. We also get regular visitors who dance this way from Bristol, Brighton, Bournemouth, other places beginning with 'B' and Northampton, etc:clap: And then we get, what I've come to think of as the tourists: they've heard the Hipsters hype and want to see what all the fuss is about (exhibit A - CarlaB). Often they're experienced Cerocers and dance in that classic Ceroc style we all know: more a Savoy to our Dean Collins is the nicest way I can think of to describe it. On a BFFF they pack the place out so much that it really isn't Hipsters at all:tears: I think that most of them must get a diet of relentless pop music at their regular venues so they bounce/skip around waving their free hand at shoulder height and don't interpret the music: the Hipsters playlist must leave them cold:tears:

On Fridays I have observed Hipsters regulars seeking each other out and dancing all night together - probably because they speak the same dance language. I think that this situation risks Hipsters regulars being labelled snobs or cliquey. I still dance with everyone, regular or not, beginner or not, like I always do. But, I've stopped going to the monthly Friday dance as I can get that 'other' style of dance on my doorstep - and at a much less crowded venue:flower:

Venue - The venue is very good, but no better than many others and really doesn't make Hipsters what it is.


So, to go back to the beginning: what is Hipsters? I think it's like Camelot, in other words, it's a dream, an aspiration: can it exist outside our imaginations?

The rain may never fall till after sundown.
By eight, the morning fog must disappear.
In short, there's simply not
A more congenial spot
For happily-ever-aftering than here
In Camelot.

ChrisA
29th-May-2004, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by Andy McGregor
- snip -

So, to go back to the beginning: what is Hipsters? I think it's like Camelot, in other words, it's a dream, an aspiration: can it exist outside our imaginations?

The rain may never fall till after sundown.
By eight, the morning fog must disappear.
In short, there's simply not
A more congenial spot
For happily-ever-aftering than here
In Camelot. Excellent post, Andy. And though it pains me almost as much to agree so comprehensively with you as it does you with Peter, I do. :na:

Chris

Jive Brummie
29th-May-2004, 05:03 PM
Attention Cats and Pigeon's......be prepared for a mingle!!!!

Is it just me that thinks Hipsters isn't a 'super-club' or am i alone in that one??

...........and before you all rip me to shreds....yes i am a Ceroc 'pure-breed' :wink:

....discuss:whistle:

James......x x

Jive Brummie
29th-May-2004, 05:07 PM
....back on thread...

Do i think a super club would work outside London???

......well everything else works outside London despite what people think, so yes it probably would.

James..........:cheers:

p.s. we even have electricity in Scotland, now you know :really: :wink:

ChrisA
29th-May-2004, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by Jive Brummie
Is it just me that thinks Hipsters isn't a 'super-club' or am i alone in that one??
Nope :hug:

And on the basis of the night you saw it, it wouldn't even be as good as some Ceroc venues :devil:

Gadget
29th-May-2004, 09:44 PM
Much as I may moan about all the hipsters talk, I'm not sure that it would be a viable option outside of such a high concentration of dancers in such a cut-throat enviroment:
It "works" by giving the same level of tuition and advice as you would get at a workshop, but on a less personal level, to a wider audience.

I believe that the standard of dancers up here is a combination of a couple of things:
Firstly, the 'basics' are taught and demonstrated with elegance to inspire the crowd. The intermediate classes always contain little tips and pointers into how can improve your dancing - not just how you can do the moves better.
Secondly; workshops. Franck manages to arrange an eclectic mix of talents and styles to teach what they are good at. These workshops are the "hipsters" of Scotland - only better.

Mix this with the comradery and freindly, open attitude of the Scots to have the seeds of great dancers germanate.

If you tried to have a regular night offering such high quality of teaching and/or workshops in the same place, I think you may find it overloading the dancers, or that they become complacent and the attitude changes from "that looks like a good workshop!" to "I wonder what workshop is on then?" - from enthusiasm to almost indiference.

However, I think that if there may be a market for a regular sort of "open workshop/tea dance" where people would just meet up to dance and perhaps gleam a few tips on the way. Have a policy of open questions to all dancers there - if you see someone do something you like, you are encouraged to approach them after the track and ask them to demonstrate it again. Perhaps set a small area off to the side for this.
Thoughts?

Gus
31st-May-2004, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by Gadget
However, I think that if there may be a market for a regular sort of "open workshop/tea dance" where people would just meet up to dance and perhaps gleam a few tips on the way.


funny enough thats exaclty what a group of us are going to try doing. Picking the 'advanced' dancers isn't too hard ... thats not that many :( but at least its a start ... see how it goes after 3 months. Will the dancers concerned have improved or will they be outcast as pretentious elitests .... who knows.

Dance Demon
31st-May-2004, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Gus
Will the dancers concerned have improved or will they be outcast as pretentious elitests .... who knows.

Depends whether they wear black & white shoes or not I suppose.....:rolleyes: :devil:

Lounge Lizard
31st-May-2004, 05:41 PM
well Andy agrees with me, Chris agrees with Andy and I think Andys post was very good - normal service will be resumed as soon as possible tho.
pp

Tiggerbabe
31st-May-2004, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by Gus
funny enough thats exactly what a group of us are going to try doing. Picking the 'advanced' dancers isn't too hard ... thats not that many
But Gadget didn't mention only the "advanced" dancers doing it :whistle: :flower:

Andy McGregor
31st-May-2004, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
well Andy agrees with me, Chris agrees with Andy and I think Andys post was very good - normal service will be resumed as soon as possible tho.
pp

Now here's a funny thing. I've done loads of posts and nobody has mentioned them in the real world: at least not any particular post.

I've had several people who I didn't even know were on the Forum come up to me and compliment me about that Hipsters post - which is nice:flower:

ChrisA
31st-May-2004, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I've had several people who I didn't even know were on the Forum come up to me and compliment me about that Hipsters post - which is nice:flower: FWIW, I think you should play it straight more often - both here on the forum, and on the dance floor.

Like at Chigwell last night... it was great to see you dancing as a guy, showing what you're capable of, without all the usual theatricals and predictable drag thing.

Though you don't look as good in black as I do... :devil:

Andy McGregor
1st-June-2004, 01:23 AM
Originally posted by ChrisA
Though you don't look as good in black as I do... :devil:

You won't be able to say that once you've seen me in my little black number by Karl Lagerfeld:devil: