Teachers as examples to other Teachers

[Gus]

Looking for some help, and maybe starting a valuable debate as well...

Like most dancers I would like to improve my dancing ... but more than that I’d like to improve my teaching ... and that an altogether harder challenge. There isn’t a simple class or workshop you can go to. The ability to be a teacher of teachers is also a rare commodity, both in terms of skill and experience. As an independent MJ instructor I at first felt that it would be a real reason to rejoin CTA as they do have a very good teacher training course ... BUT, unless things have changed, this is really aimed at new teachers .. not experienced teachers.

SO ... in the absence any other bright ideas I reasoned things this way ...

In business, the way the Business Gurus identify winning ‘best practice’ is to look at the best companies and assess what they are doing to be so successful. Taking this example to the MJ dance arena it would therefore seem sensible to identify the better teachers (not necessarily the superstars) and try to learn from them, other by observation or coaching sessions.

So ... (for the second time) .... who do you think is a good teacher, one who’s example you think others could learn from. They don’t have to be a ‘complete’ teacher ... maybe there are weak points in what they do ... but I’m interested in what they do well. Also, in the nicest possible way ... PLEASE don’t just propose your local instructor just because they’re nice or because you think you should.... I’m really trying to get a list of those I can learn from. Maybe a good way would be to PM me if you don’t want your honest thoughts subject to the open scrutiny of the Forum.

Aside from the usual villains (N&N, Viktor, Amir) the ones on my list so far as Marc and Nelson Rose ... both conveniently teaching MILE away from me:tears: . Luckily, another on my list is the legendary Sue Freeman ... a mere 100 miles away:grin: .

SUGGESTIONS?

[DavidY]

Originally posted by Gus
Marc ... both conveniently teaching MILE away from me:tears: . Luckily, another on my list is the legendary Sue Freeman ... a mere 100 miles away:grin: .Assuming you mean Rachel's Marc, he sometimes teaches in Nottingham on Monday nights - dunno exact mileage from where you are but if you're in Manchester I'd bet it's less than 100 miles (try multimap with NG7 2BY).

Rachel can confirm, but I think Marc might be teaching there this Bank Holiday Monday.

David

[Jayne]

Originally posted by Gus
Aside from the usual villains (N&N, Viktor, Amir) ~snip~ SUGGESTIONS?
I'm afraid I've got to say that the best teacher for me is Amir. There is one simple reason for this.

He's a dancer.

I watch him do a simple movement and I'm in awe of the guy and it really inspires me to try harder, keep practicing, practicing and practicing and one day I might not be too bad....

I guess that's not much help though Gus - unless you're going to give up the day job and join a ballet company :devil:

J :nice:

[Gus]

Originally posted by Jayne
I guess that's not much help though Gus - unless you're going to give up the day job and join a ballet company :devil:


I'm not interested in trying to dance like Amir (fat chance!!), what I'm looking is to understand how he teaches at a level above common plebs like myself. I know he does personal dance coaching ... not sure about teaching coaching ... BUT, am intending to smuggle myself down South to see him in action at Hipsters ... one day...

[Jayne]

Originally posted by Gus
I'm not interested in trying to dance like Amir (fat chance!!)
Ditto!


Originally posted by Gus
what I'm looking is to understand how he teaches at a level above common plebs like myself.
For me the thing that puts Amir above other teachers is that he inspires me. As for actual teaching technique, I like the way he teaches a move a few times and then gives you 30 seconds to have a go. This really makes sure that you're on the ball and that you're actually learning, not just going through the motions (which is what I was very guilty of). However, if you're not on the ball you can get left behind.


Originally posted by Gus
BUT, am intending to smuggle myself down South to see him in action at Hipsters ... one day...
:clap: :clap: :clap:

J :nice:

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Jayne
the best teacher for me is Amir. There is one simple reason for this.

He's a dancer.

:yeah:

Though that's not why he's such a good teacher IMHO.

A few things come to mind...

- he articulates what he wants us to do extremely clearly.

- he _does_ exactly what he _says_, every time - so there's no eye/ear dissonance to hinder learning; and he can isolate small portions (usually the difficult bits) of a move he's teaching in order to demo it.

- he teaches the entries and exits from moves with the same precision, which makes it a lot easier to get into the right positions

- he watches the class and accurately identifies what's going wrong, and explains why; often not only with a demo of what you should be doing, but also one of what you should not be doing. His coordination is such that he can make this remarkably clear.

Secondary, but still relevant, he's very funny, and manages to be human while looking pretty awesome (I expect a discount now :D )

Chris

PS All hail his demos, too. Originally Kate :worthy: , but more recently Debster :worthy: :hug: , Hayley :flower: and Yuko :flower: .

[Andy McGregor]

This thread has become an Amir love fest. Speaking personally, Amir is IMHO actually the best teacher in the MJ scene. But he does have a very long neck so he's not perfect:devil:

I also agree with Gus that Nelson is a fab teacher too - and he's also a brilliant DJ.

IMHO you do have to be a great dancer to be a great dance teacher. After all, how could anyone become better than their teacher:confused:

But, I don't think it follows that a great dancer can be a great teacher because they are very different skills.

I've been wondering for a while if other classically trained dancers could easily become great MJ teachers. If that were found to be true it would be brilliant: every town and village would have a great MJ teacher:clap:

[Franck]

There are many teachers out there that have the experience, knowledge and inspiration to teach other teachers.
One of the most common failures of teachers (in all categories of life) is to never see anyone else teach and become stuck in your own ways.
Of course it isn't easy to see other teachers, unless you're prepared to travel.
This is why I have been very keen to invite as many top teachers to Scotland as possible, and to encourage all my teachers to attend their workshops and pick-up new ideas, styles, ways of teaching etc...

This approach has worked very well over the last 10 years, with such inspirations as Viktor (several times), Emma Pettitt (about 6 years ago in Edinburgh, and in a few weeks again in Glasgow), H (who taught one of the best smooth style class I've seen), Adam and Mandy (who so far twice compelled and dazzled the Scottish crowds and are coming back to teach new stuff in July), David and LilyB who brought grace and technical expertise to a new level and only last week-end Marc & Rachel, new teacher (relatively) but incredibly inspiring and original!
My approach is to look for new concepts / ideas that I either aspire to, or simply can't do / teach.

I believe that in the process, not only has the level of dancing improved significantly, but the standard of teaching in Scotland is amongst the highest in the UK.


Originally posted by Andy McGregor
IMHO you do have to be a great dancer to be a great dance teacher. After all, how could anyone become better than their teacherIn that respect (and this has been discussed before) I disagree. It should be every (good) teacher's aspiration that (at least some of) their students become better than themselves.
Of course they should be 'competent' dancers but as you say in the rest of your post, teaching and dancing (whether in competitions or inter-personal dancing) are very different skills.

[Doc Iain]

From my point of view a good teacher is someone that can
1)explain their point in an intelligable way, and
2) add interest to their lessons.

Now obviously this has a number of limitations, it is very good for beginners but not so good for more advanced dancers. But I believe the teachers that have been mentioned (and many others) who are very good still manage to achieve this. There appear to be a number of ways to do this, Amir (as has been mentioned...many many times) adds musicality and style into his lessons. Viktor and Nigel blend in other dance styles which brings style etc. but I think that the key is to teach moves the work in freestlye, and to teach the all important aspects of lead and follow at the same time. BUT at the same time, blend in something of interest forthe more advanced dancers. This could be some extra stlye tips, or an aim (ie. dance this more smoothly...or emphasise the beats more by stretching and shrinking areas of the taught move).

As I was once told by one teacher, there is no point going through a lesson unchallenged, the brain is like anyother area of the body and does not really develop unless pushed a little bit. so the key that the "best" teachers have got is that they can do this for every level of people doing the lesson.


However Gus... you may already do this!!! in which case I haven't got a clue and next time I am anywhere near you I must catch a lesson!! :grin:

[bigdjiver]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
IMHO you do have to be a great dancer to be a great dance teacher. After all, how could anyone become better than their teacher:confused:

Often the greats have a natural talent. They do not know how they do what they do. In some cases when they try to take on formal training they actually lose their natural gift.

Often the less gifted, who have had to struggle and study hard to achieve what they have learned make the best teachers, because they appreciate the difficulties, and have the knowledge of how to work through them. The gifted, on the other hand, may be able to demonstrate, but they may not be able to explain the process, nor have the understanding and patience to wait whilst the learner struggles through it.

A dancer talks with thier body, their mouth may not be so lucid.

You get better than your teacher with the necessary talent, and studying other teachers, and working extra bits it out for yourself.

[Franck]

Originally posted by Gus
I'm not interested in trying to dance like Amir (fat chance!!), what I'm looking is to understand how he teaches at a level above common plebs like myself. I think that aside from an (natural or learnt) ability to explain (simple or complex) concepts clearly to different people, improving as a teacher is a personal journey.
Same as improving as a dancer.
You reach many plateaus, highs and lows, but perseverance, passion, generosity (in sharing your knowledge), an open mind and experience will make the most difference.
Teachers should never forget they are students themselves and always learning new concepts, the moment we stop learning, we stop being able to teach and also lose enthusiasm / passion / drive...

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
IMHO you do have to be a great dancer to be a great dance teacher. After all, how could anyone become better than their teacher:confused:


The best students will always become better* then their teachers, unless what they are being taught is 100% perfect already and there is no room for evolution or improvement - cant think of anything that that applys too though. :)


* now we just need to define 'better' :)

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
The best students will always become better* then their teachers, unless what they are being taught is 100% perfect already and there is no room for evolution or improvement - cant think of anything that that applys too though. :)


* now we just need to define 'better' :) I'd only agree with this statement if you are stopping the teachers improving as better dancers themselves. Your statement assumes that the teachers stand still on their own dance development, thus allowing their students to overtake them. And if this was the case, then I'd agree with you totally.

However, of course, your statement is inaccurate, as the teachers are learning and developing their own dancing as well as teaching, and you seem to have forgotten, or not allowed for this.

Your statement may well still be true of course. Equally, it may well not be true. And in fact, since (assuming) the teachers already start off with a lead, it relys on the students learning at a faster speed in order to become better than them. So, the odds are a little biased towards the teachers staying out in front. Of course, this does depend on the individuals concerned....

Trampy

[Minnie M]

Jo Thompson (USA) who teaches Line Dancing and West Coast Swing was voted the best dance teacher (not sure of region) - after attending her West Coast Swing class a couple of years ago (in Harrow) I can see why - fantastic - clear instructions and she danced the moves taught with ALL the people in her class, changing from lead to follow during the lesson AND at all times she kept the count going :worthy:

In fact regardless of the style taught, we can learn a lot from our visiting overseas dance instructors - my personal favourite is Steve Mitchell.he sings moves through (teaches mostly style and technique using swing as a basis)

:worthy: :clap: :worthy:

PS: Nigel and Nina ALWAYS do the lessons from these overseas teachers

PPS: Private lessons from them on different teaching techniques must be well worth the money

PPPS: Jordan and Tatiana will be performing at Rebel Yell this year

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by TheTramp
I'd only agree with this statement if you are stopping the teachers improving as better dancers themselves. Your statement assumes that the teachers stand still on their own dance development, thus allowing their students to overtake them.

However, of course, your statement is inaccurate, as the teachers are learning and developing their own dancing as well as teaching, and you seem to have forgotten, or not allowed for this.

Your statement may well still be true of course. Equally, it may well not be true. And in fact, since (assuming) the teachers already start off with a lead, it relys on the students learning at a faster speed in order to become better than them. So, the odds are a little biased towards the teachers staying out in front. Of course, this does depend on the individuals concerned....



I was replying to Andys post that suggested he couldnt understand how a pupil could be better than a teacher, I think there are lots of reasons why this would be true. Particularly talented pupils, teachers who dont want to experiment outside therir expertise and therefore dont bring in anything new and grow stale? an active pupil would leave them standing :).

Some teachers sheer enthusiasm will make them great teachers and inspire their pupils but maybe theyre not that great technically and a lot of their students soon surpase them - ive seen this before. Not everyone is a master of what they teach. I teach a lot of different IT courses for a living and sometimes I know im sharing specific knowledge about a certain area that may amount to a lot of knowledge for me, but is a drop in the ocean for some of the people I teach - plus they get to use it much more than i do and within a short time could well train me. Sometimes a starting point is all the teacher really provides ! And to assume the teacher is always starting of with a lead is false i think - not everyone you teach is going to be completely new to what you have to teach them :)

[bigdjiver]

Originally posted by TheTramp
Your statement assumes that the teachers stand still on their own dance development, thus allowing their students to overtake them. As dancers we could have access to lessons by ten different teachers each week, and go to our choices of venues.
Most of the teachers I know are teaching on average 5 times a week. They do learn from their pupils, their colleagues, as well as training courses and visits to other venues, but most are still behind the most avid dancers in their opporunities to practise and progress.

[Gadget]

I only have a limited number of teachers I have seen, but here's what I think each of them excels at (in the order I experianced their teaching abilities):

Lorna: I think fact she was a music teacher may have something to do with this, but she 'counts' very well - breaks down the moves and gets everyone in-sync throught the class. I didn't really appreciate this (or how much it helps) until I realised that I was using some of the the counts and timings she would when other teachers were teaching.

Franck: Excelent beginners teacher - I'm sure some of the verbal slips must be intentional, but he is very humerous from the stage. The occasional "flaw" and his whole demenour prove that mr & mrs Joe Public can do it. He conveys lots of enthusiasm and a great passion.

Gus/Mandy: Work very well in a dual teaching role. Gus's enthusiasm is what I remember most about his teaching style.

Adam: Style and confidence I think are what I remember most from his workshops. And the humor, but I think that this was more from his confidence and being relaxed than any direct effort to entertain.

DavidB: Very knowledgable; individual pieces could be broken down, examined seperatly, and put back into the whole.

Lilly: Style. Teaches very well by example and demonstration.

Lisa: Her demos and walk-throughs are very stylish, {getting better as her confidence and teaching experiance increases} There are a lot more 'florishes' and posiive stylings in ladies dancing since she began teaching.

Marc: I liked his method of showing/explaining at the start and not really labouring the point throught the lessons - just gentle reminders.

[philsmove]

The ability to be a teacher of teachers is also a rare commodity


This is very true

I am not a dance teacher, but many years ago I taught sub aqua at Edinburgh University diving club

The people who taught me to teach was team from London who organised training weekend fro instructors

I think the basic rules of teaching apply regardless of what is being taught

So if you cannot find a dance teachers, teacher. It might be worth looking at some other disciplines that interest you

Yes I have to agree Amir is an amazing teacher he has that infectious enthusiasm that is so incredibly rare


As for can the student become better than the instructor? The answer is defiantly yes

Changing disciplines again and delving into my murk past. I taught the current word champion in another sport but I never even approach his level

[JamesGeary]

Originally posted by Minnie M
PPPS: Jordan and Tatiana will be performing at Rebel Yell this year [/B]

When's that?

[Minnie M]

Originally posted by JamesGeary
When's that?

Saturday 2nd October at the HG Wells Centre, Woking

[Nicola]

Hi Gus!
If you're still planning trip to the midlands-ceroc central has some fab teachers! I think it's really important to question your own teaching methods as there is always room for improvement. As a blokey it may be helpful to go to other male teachers classes. If you are in this area both Paul (wellingborough) and Marc (MK) are very popular-each with very individual styles!
We also have great female teachers though which are always well worth a visit i.e. Mick Walker and Emma Pettitt! Both wicked dancers and very experienced teachers.
I think the very fact that you're questioning your teaching and prepared to learn from others indicates that you are probably a very good teacher!:wink:
Hopefully see you iun midlands soon!?:cheers:

[Gus]

Originally posted by Nicola
Hi Gus! .... I think the very fact that you're questioning your teaching and prepared to learn from others indicates that you are probably a very good teacher!:wink:

Thnaks for the sentiment but I'm probably no more than competent but entertaining! The furstration comes from what I know about training from the real world (training is a key element of my consultancy work) and I know that in a majority of cases that as teachers I think we teach little and entertain more. I'd like to see if there is a way to redress that balance. The key success to any night has to be that people enjoy it BUT it would be nice to see dancers learning more and so improving the general levels.

I think that there are a jumber of dimensions to teaching, the emphasis of which varies form teacher to teacher. Things like: technical accuracy, use of humour, metaphors to explain a point, spotting mistakes in the class, complexity of moves, innovation etc. etc. etc. I've not yet seen the 'perfect' teacher ... and never will .... but I'm sure that there is much to be learned from our peer group.

As someone else has commented .. its not just MJ teachers that can be learnt from .. but as long as we teach within the constriction of the classic Ceroc format, it does preclude a lot of the techniques you would use in a usual training environment.

Well ... thats my view anyway:waycool: ... So ... any more voluntters for teachers to come and watch?

[Chicklet]

Originally posted by Gus
but as long as we teach within the constriction of the classic Ceroc format, it does preclude a lot of the techniques you would use in a usual training environment.


*scary metaphor alert*:D

so if the (orange) trousers are getting a little tight:blush: :what: :innocent: , why not whip em off ???

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Chicklet
*scary metaphor alert*:D

so if the (orange) trousers are getting a little tight:blush: :what: :innocent: , why not whip em off ???

well, whilst YOU may want to see that, dont assume to speak for everyone ;)

[Chicklet]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
well, whilst YOU may want to see that, dont assume to speak for everyone ;)

:raspberry:
I have a feeling there was a poll long before my time on here that
proved the majority DID want to see them off - might have been off and in the bin right enough, must check back one day....

Anyway, the clue was in the "orange", you're just being petulant cos YOU'RE not the TV star in your house :eek:

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Chicklet

Anyway, the clue was in the "orange", you're just being petulant cos YOU'RE not the TV star in your house :eek:

:rofl: did EVERYONE see that ? shes famous, had about 20 people comment already :)

[Chicklet]

Originally posted by Chicklet
so if the (orange) trousers are getting a little tight:blush: :what: :innocent: , why not whip em off ???

...terribly bad form but going to quote self as question not being addressed properly:petted lip: :devil: :foot stamp:

What other options (if any) are there to teaching in the Ceroc format ??? Are we talking about little things like having the dancers in a circle rather than rows and teaching from the stage?
Or something "more different"??

What have folk seen in WCS in the States for example??
And what about (usually Leroc??) classes in France?

Do these differ in format at all?

Interested.....
C:D

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Nicola
We also have great female teachers though which are always well worth a visit i.e. Mick Walker and Emma Pettitt! Having been to Wellingborough last night (still feels like tonight, as I've just driven the 450 miles back, it's 7:45am, and I'm about to go to bed), I think that Nicola definitely should be added into the great female teachers in Ceroc Central. Was very impressed by how she taught the class :clap:

Trampy

[Gadget]

{I wrote this a while ago with thoughts on posting it for a new threat on a quiet day, but I think it sits well with this one...}
One thing that struck me from reading about the Southport w/e is the humbleness of teachers and good dancers*;
In most areas of teaching, the teacher's knowledge of the subject is greater than the pupils - while this may true for some of the specific areas being taught, sometimes the pupils knowledge and ability matches or even exceeds the teachers. Outside of MJ, where do you see teachers joining in each other's classes?
(*good dancers being those who you want to learn from - whether they are teachers or not.)

Personally I find it refreshing and uplifting - everyone has something to learn and everyone has something that can be learned from. The evolution of dance means that there are always new things being discovered and no one person can "know it all" or be the definitive authority (DavidB withstanding).
It reinforces the fact that there is no rigid rules about the "right"* way to do something; it's all about the moment and the music. :waycool:
(* there are however "wrong" ways before any pedants argue the point)

Each dance is a unique piece of artwork that cannot be replicated. The teachers can show how to hold the brush, techniques that can be used, how to define shapes, how to look at composition and present your piece. The music may define the palette, but you choose the scene to paint and how to paint it.


{Sorry - feeling in a mellow, happy mood today.:)}

[Nicola]

Originally posted by TheTramp
Having been to Wellingborough last night (still feels like tonight, as I've just driven the 450 miles back, it's 7:45am, and I'm about to go to bed), I think that Nicola definitely should be added into the great female teachers in Ceroc Central. Was very impressed by how she taught the class :clap:

Trampy

Bless you tramp (new best friend)! :hug:
Had a wicked night-couldn't sleep was on a bit of a buzz:clap: !
I can't believe you sere driving all night! You must be soooo tired. You must have been driving like this :what: (do you like my use of smilies?)
Was great to have you there-hopfully see you soon-maybe in Chigwell?:cheers:
p.s you know you want to :wink:

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Nicola
Was great to have you there-hopfully see you soon-maybe in Chigwell?:cheers:
p.s you know you want to :wink: I'll see your Chigwell on the 27th, and raise you a Glasgow on the 12th/13th.

Of course I want to. And I know that you do too :flower:

Trampy

[Nicola]

Finding employment really should be my priority right now! How about if the recruitment fair goes well and a major company love me (don't laugh, it might happen) I'll celebrate with a trip to scotland! If not I'll definately plan something for sometime soon! Definately looking forward to Chigwell though! Go emma and Alex :clap:

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Nicola
Finding employment really should be my priority right now! How about if the recruitment fair goes well and a major company love me (don't laugh, it might happen) I'll celebrate with a trip to scotland! If not I'll definately plan something for sometime soon! Definately looking forward to Chigwell though! Go emma and Alex :clap: Ah. There's the rest of your life to do that (finding employment)!!

Besides, how could anyone not fail to love you??

Trampy

PS. Is this 'lovie' enough for everyone else?? :whistle:

[spindr]

My vote for teachers to learn from are: Marcus and Barbl -- www.worldofswing.com.

Admitedly, a "smallish" class of 20-30 at JATW, but they managed to teach me one move, even when I was prepared to call it a day and give up. There's something special when the teachers are prepared to, e.g. lead you, so that you can work out how you should lead the follower -- and are prepared to stand and continually adjust you / your partner's stance, timing, etc.

Which is interesting, as most MJ "classes" are really lectures (getting student flashbacks here) -- there's little feedback, where the teacher checks that they've taught the move/concept correctly *and* it's been learnt correctly.

My vote for a teacher to learn what not to do, comes from watching a class recently -- the teacher was so keen to count the move and demonstrate -- that they didn't notice that the closest leaders were continually turning their partners the wrong way (for the routine). Plus, the fact that they managed to collide with my *stationary* partner in freestyle, when they were dancing a first-move triple step thing -- and could certainly see where they were going (being led forwards) -- oh, and no apology. They even nearly managed it a second time!

SpinDr.

[MartinHarper]

What other options (if any) are there to teaching in the Ceroc format ???

I've mentioned "Terms" before, a la JazzJive, which is a fairly fundamental difference. Has advantages and disadvantages, of course.

Less radically, the standard format locally seems to be teacher+demonstrator, where the demonstrator is comparatively quiet. An alternative option I've seen is to have (what amounts to) two teachers, both miked up, with the female teacher mostly explaining the girls' movements, and the male teacher mostly explaining stuff for the boys.

[Minnie M]

.............the female teacher mostly explaining the girls' movements, and the male teacher mostly explaining stuff for the boys.

hmmm......... "girls movements" + "boys stuff" :what:

IMO There are some excellant female MJ / Ceroc teachers I have encountered, who all follow the "Lead & Follow" method of teaching which is no different to the method of the male teachers.

The Lindy Hop method of teaching is quite different, mainly because they teach footwork.

[Dancing Teeth]

My vote for teachers to learn from are: Marcus and Barbl -- www.worldofswing.com.

Which is interesting, as most MJ "classes" are really lectures (getting student flashbacks here) -- there's little feedback, where the teacher checks that they've taught the move/concept correctly *and* it's been learnt correctly.

it a second time!

SpinDr.


Ok... here goes... from a teacher of 12 years standing, I think I can offer some insight into this, There are good teachers and ofcause bad ones too. :tears: Not every teacher goes through a training Course..

IMHO; I think there is a very thin line between a complicated move and bad teaching. When people are learning to dance, I would recommend they travel around and find a teacher they like the style off, or teaching methodology.

When I started Salsa just gone three years ago, I found it very difficult, I had to change teachers a few times until I found one who made it fun to learn and explained things in a way I could understand.

Ok here it comes .. :confused:
The thing with the MJ scene is there is a huge number of people who just go there to socialise and dancing is an added bonus. So they are not that fussed really. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with this.
They just don't take it as serious as the Australians..(generalisation) :innocent:

There are times when I've seen teachers who've been keen to teach some really good stuff but much of the MJ scene what easy stuff.. (generalisation) :innocent:
Understandable... it's meant to be fun, not an exam.

The MJ scene standard has improved but could be better.

I say, Give your teacher some feedback. Be nice, :whistle: .. remember you're paying for a service and if it's not to your liking. Let he/she know. :cheers:

[Gadget]

IMHO; I think there is a very thin line between a complicated move and bad teaching. When people are learning to dance, I would recommend they travel around and find a teacher they like the style off, or teaching methodology.
{:devil:}OK, so there are different ways of teaching and every teacher is different; but why is the onus on the dancer to find a better teacher than the teacher finding a way to make a better dancer?

It seems that the advice is all towards finding the right teacher for you - but shouldn't the choice of teacher only make a difference if your dancing is of a high standard? Shouldn't every teacher be able to teach "average" classes? MJ is billed as the easiest partner dance to learn - why should you have to shop arround to find one that can teach you it?{/:devil:}

[Graham]

{:devil:}OK, so there are different ways of teaching and every teacher is different; but why is the onus on the dancer to find a better teacher than the teacher finding a way to make a better dancer?

It seems that the advice is all towards finding the right teacher for you - but shouldn't the choice of teacher only make a difference if your dancing is of a high standard? Shouldn't every teacher be able to teach "average" classes? MJ is billed as the easiest partner dance to learn - why should you have to shop arround to find one that can teach you it?{/:devil:}
The same reason you get to choose which TV programs you watch, and not the broadcaster.

[Dancing Teeth]

The same reason you get to choose which TV programs you watch, and not the broadcaster.

:yeah:

but shouldn't the choice of teacher only make a difference if your dancing is of a high standard?

The above argument could be used for beginners too...

Maybe we could have a table-on-teaching standards... voted for by the public ofcause... This could discribe the all-round venues, ones that are good for beginners and others for intermediate..
:wink:

[Rachel]

{:devil:}OK, so there are different ways of teaching and every teacher is different; but why is the onus on the dancer to find a better teacher than the teacher finding a way to make a better dancer?

It seems that the advice is all towards finding the right teacher for you - but shouldn't the choice of teacher only make a difference if your dancing is of a high standard? Shouldn't every teacher be able to teach "average" classes? MJ is billed as the easiest partner dance to learn - why should you have to shop arround to find one that can teach you it?{/:devil:} Can't resist biting on this one!!

I absolutely think that the teacher should monitor his teaching, adapt & change as necessary, throughout every minute of every class, to be able to get the moves and key points across in the best way to the maximum number of people. So, yes, there is a huge onus on the teacher.

But ... I also believe that not every teacher's style is suitable for every learner. So the student should be also responsible for finding a teacher whom they can best learn from. This can be for a whole variety of reasons and, IMO, doesn't make the slightest bit of difference what standard your dancing is.

Everyone learns in different ways, and everyone responds to different teachers in their own way. Personally, I hate it when teachers humorously 'mock' the class (or, particularly, any individuals) for doing something wrong or not knowing their right hand from their left, etc. That has always annoyed me, ever since I was a first beginner. And I wouldn't respond well to teachers who did that.

I also hate it when teachers make you clap yourselves after doing every move - even if everyone's done it really badly. Silly point, I know, but it really bugs me. Other people, however, will love this.

At intermediate level, teachers will all have their own style and favourite moves which will come up again and again - you just can't properly teach moves you hate. And these moves will suit some people but not others.

So, I don't think that people searching for another class is necessarily a bad reflection on the teacher. As long as the teacher is making the very best effort they can to suit the vast majority of their dancers.

Christ - what on earth was the original question? I've completely forgotten! Is this signs of old age creeping in???
Rachel

[RobC]

hmmm......... "girls movements" + "boys stuff" :what:
To quote "The Oracle" from Boppin Bristol last weekend when Lily let him loose on the mike, this is now to be know as "Girl's *****"..... :whistle:

Used in context: the boys do their thang and let the girls get on with the girl's *****. :rolleyes:

[David Franklin]

To quote "The Oracle" from Boppin Bristol last weekend when Lily let him loose on the mike, this is now to be know as "Girl's *****"..... :whistle:Didn't he give credit? That phrase originated with Clayton! :rofl:

Dave

[RobC]

Didn't he give credit? That phrase originated with Clayton! :rofl:

Dave
Yes he did credit someone but I could remember who it was, so rather than miss-credit I left it out. :blush:

[David Franklin]

Yes he did credit someone but I could remember who it was, so rather than miss-credit I left it out. :blush:Could be worse...

[The scene: 20 years on, Clayton is being interviewed on "This is Your Life"]

Clayton: So let me get this straight. I've won more competitions than most of you can dream of. I've performed showcases all over the world. And what do I get remembered for? Girl Sh*t! :tears:

Dave

[Rachel]

Didn't he give credit? That phrase originated with Clayton! :rofl:

Dave That's what I was thinking! The first time he said that to me during (a rather special :yum: ) dance ... I just panicked and didn't know what to do!
R.

[Gus]

I absolutely think that the teacher should monitor his teaching, adapt & change as necessary, throughout every minute of every class, to be able to get the moves and key points across in the best way to the maximum number of people. So, yes, there is a huge onus on the teacher.Sorry ... not sure if I agree with this. For the MJ formula of teaching to work, the teacher has to keep broadly to the formula ... just do it well. There is only a small degree of latitude in which the teacher can change what they are doing. They may repeat a move, breakdown a segment ... but for the most part, with a class of 80+ you can't tailor the lesson ... i.e. to whom do you tailor it to? The couple at the back who are advanced dancers and bored, the couple near the front who blatently arent paying attention, the group of guys on your right with zero co-ordination, the lady on the left who is doing an intermediate lesson despite the fact that this is her first night?

With the vast range of competencies and motivation of the students in a MJ class it is really down for the class to follow the lesson not the other way round. As Viktor says, I think for the majority of dancers its about finding a teacher who's style, moves and emphasis suits the dancer's particular preferences. IMHO :wink:

[Rachel]

Sorry ... not sure if I agree with this. For the MJ formula of teaching to work, the teacher has to keep broadly to the formula ... just do it well. There is only a small degree of latitude in which the teacher can change what they are doing. They may repeat a move, breakdown a segment ... but for the most part, with a class of 80+ you can't tailor the lesson ... i.e. to whom do you tailor it to? The couple at the back who are advanced dancers and bored, the couple near the front who blatently arent paying attention, the group of guys on your right with zero co-ordination, the lady on the left who is doing an intermediate lesson despite the fact that this is her first night? ... ‘Broadly’ – yes. ‘Small degree of latitude’ – true, particularly in Ceroc classes. And ‘to whom do you tailor it?’ – well, exactly, this is why I say the maximum number of people, not everyone, which would be impossible with such large class sizes. But, even within that framework, there are still many small tweaks and amendments that can be made. (Easier said than done, I know – I’ve been a full-time trainer for 8 years, in a much less demanding environment, and I’m still learning!)

However, if you can blatantly see that the majority of your class are not getting a move, you can’t just hammer on regardless, hoping they might eventually pick it up, or not caring if they don’t. In that instance, I think the teacher should re-think his way of teaching it - sometimes just small things are needed: turning round so the class can see a move from a different angle, teaching only the footwork part first separate from your partner, explaining the process in a different way, e.g. likening it to a move they’re already familiar with or reminding them they did something similar 2 weeks ago, using imagery, etc. Perhaps vary the move – give the option of a single spin rather than a double, add a couple of beats (musical timing allowing) to do a slow version of the move, …

And why not, if 3 moves have taken up all the class time, drop the 4th move altogether? Marc will sometimes end up doing a completely different last move from the one we’d pre-planned for the class, if the 3 previous moves have taken longer than anticipated to teach – which can be a bit of a surprise if I’m demo’ing! Or often he will plan two different last moves, one easy and one more difficult and then chose at the time which one to insert depending on how the class is going.

So, yes, a very very difficult job, but I still think it’s the responsibility of the teacher to make adjustments, during the class, depending on how it’s going. Of course you’ll never be able to please everyone….!
R.

[Minnie M]

To quote "The Oracle" from Boppin Bristol last weekend when Lily let him loose on the mike, this is now to be know as "Girl's *****"..... :whistle:

Used in context: the boys do their thang and let the girls get on with the girl's *****. :rolleyes:

I assume they were teaching West Coast Swing, footwork again

[Lounge Lizard]

I think being able to teach and adapt a move on stage at short notice is very important, all to often a move a teacher thinks is easy can confuse a class, or if the message is not getting across the teacher may need to look hard at the move AFTER the lesson and get it right next time.

it depends why the dancers are not getting it - if it is your regular crowd then it is the teachers fault, but if like Viktor you teach at many venues then the teacher has to discover the dancers abilities.

I prefer to have a solid formula that I use to build my classes around, and I use a few methods to discover the dancers ability if it is a new crowd early on in the lesson.
peter

[David Franklin]

I assume they were teaching West Coast Swing, footwork againWell, extensions, probably... David does try to get us men to move occasionally. Though I was amused recently to discover Mario Robau describe his home page as:

"Home of Standing Still....Only Faster and Slower"

Dave

[Gus]

I prefer to have a solid formula that I use to build my classes around, and I use a few methods to discover the dancers ability if it is a new crowd early on in the lesson.
peter
But if you are teaching to the Ceroc/Blitz/MoJive model I'm not sure how much you can change it. The teaching structure if very stricly laid down and, for ceroc especially, I dont know how much latitude the teacher has .. if any.

Contra-view. Picture the scene. Instructor walks out and teaches 4 strightforward intermediate moves .... EXCEPT the dancers on that particular night have never seen an accordian, have got used to another teachers style and are generally having a bad night. After move two the teacher realises that the class quite simply aint going to get it. What do they do. Adandom the routine and improvise. Ditch the offending move and carry on ... or just teach the two moves they can get? Had a not too dissimailr (but far less severe) experience a few weeks back when it became horribly apparent that a fair few dancers in the class were haveing major problems in understanding the basic mechanics of an accordian ... which was fairly fundamental to the whole routine :tears: :tears:

[jockey]

I've been to more venues than most in my six years in modern Jive because my work took me all over the country and I would dance in that area maybe 3 times a week. Also I would always do the classes. Plus I do weekenders. People have already mentioned the obvious ones: N & N, Amir and i have two to add to that list: Mick Wenger (exFulham, noow St Albans) - enthusiastic, good asides to audience, and challenging at inter' level; and Andy and Rena - fun, demanding, energetic and they know answers to 'why' questions as well as 'how' questions (this helps to stay in one piece as they teach aerials as well as Lindy). On the south coast you have to go a long way to better Graham Leclerc if you wanna do it right technically. I haven't been west of Southampton nor north of Bedford (so you could be better than all of them Gus!)

[Gus]

I haven't been west of Southampton nor north of Bedford (so you could be better than all of them Gus!)Not a chance I'm afraid. I'm strictly 1st or 2nd division, can't compete with the Premiership big boys. :sick:

[LilyB]

Well, extensions, probably... David does try to get us men to move occasionally. Though I was amused recently to discover Mario Robau describe his home page as:

"Home of Standing Still....Only Faster and Slower"

Dave

Mario is David's hero. Nuff said. :worthy: :whistle:

BTW Minnie, the workshop referred to was on Musical Interpretation - 'Hitting the breaks'.

Lily :flower:

[jockey]

I think it is true as someone said above that different teachers suit different 'pupils'. I can think of a couple of different reasons: 1) People (esp. kids) learn well if they LIKE the teacher. (I was reminded of this when a leading Ceroc teacher at a workshop in Bisley commented to me after I was the sole member of his class to raise his hand in answer to the question 'who wants to non-rotate' "is that you or your partner?"; and (looking at my partner).."I think its you.." - implying, I take it, that she is attractive where I am not and that I would be jealous if she danced with other men. In fact she is my competition partner and had flown from N. Spain where she lives to get some all too rare practice...! So, I agree with the earlier comment (you have read all the threads haven't you..?) about disparaging remarks. I didn't learn that lesson well

2) Some of the dancers may have different 'fish to fry': viz., I do competitions and I want to know what makes a move LOOK GOOD. For example: " thelower you dip your head the better it looks". And then I want to know why it looks good (eg., its more graceful; or it conforms to a parabola which is inherently beautiful). Amir does this well. I want an explanation so I can transfer the idea myself to other moves...

3) I need a name. This is because it might take me 3 minutes doing a 'new' move in bits with a new partner in a class in slomo only to realise that I eat this 'continuous pretzel or whatever' for breakfast every night I dance...

That's all from me, except...should girls learn the names as well ? (I'll get my coat...)

[MartinHarper]

IMO There are some excellant female MJ / Ceroc teachers I have encountered, who all follow the "Lead & Follow" method of teaching which is no different to the method of the male teachers.

Hmm... I wasn't really drawing a difference between male and female teachers, but between the different approaches in my local area:
* A completely silent demonstrator (eg Ceroc Cheltenham)
* A demonstrator who gives very occasional hints (eg, JazzJive Malvern, Ceroc Worcester)
* A talkative demonstrator/second teacher (eg JazzJive Worcester)

Personally, I find a silent demonstrator something of a turn-off: it feels slightly alien to the social nature of MJ. On a side note (and I may be alone in this) while I know all MJ teachers can both lead and follow, I do get an irrational credibility issue when (eg) a male teacher I've never seen dance follow starts expounding at length on the secret of good following. If the demonstrator is at least nodding along in agreement, that helps. :)

[Andreas]

I can't say who is a good teacher in the UK because I have not attended enough classes here to get a good idea of it.

My general criterium is, however, the ability to beark down moves, explain them well, same with music.

There are many good dancers out there but not many good teachers. The majority of 'naturals' are no good as teachers because they have never had to practice their stuff too much. So in many cases teachers that have learnt it 'the hard way' are better than those that simply can do it.

[Minnie M]

BTW Minnie, the workshop referred to was on Musical Interpretation - 'Hitting the breaks'.

Think I am guilty of not reading all the posts on this thread :sick: was referring to standard Modern Jive/Ceroc classes - apologies :blush:

[bigdjiver]

... I’d like to improve my teaching ... it would therefore seem sensible to identify the better teachers (not necessarily the superstars) and try to learn from them, other by observation or coaching sessions.

So ... (for the second time) .... who do you think is a good teacher, one who’s example you think others could learn from. ...
Aside from the usual villains (N&N, Viktor, Amir) ...
SUGGESTIONS? One suggestion is to find out where the "usual villains" go for their advancement.

Today I attended Noelle Gray's :worthy: workshop in Ampthill for Bluesdance.
Fellow attendees were Nina :worthy: and Roger Chin :worthy: I would like to know what they thought of it.

So what was her class like? We started by Noelle and Nina giving us an impromptu exhibition. Noelle is allegedly one of the top three female leads in the USA, in addition to her trophies as a follower. We were then invited to select a partner and dance a to a snippet of couple of tracks. This helped to loosen us up, and introduce some of us, but the main purpose was for Noelle to assess our abilities.

The first section was mostly about having the right attitude and preparation for the dance, and the correct frame. The second section was about how to move. After two hours we were just starting on the basics of moving together correctly. Alas, at this point I had to leave. How much I got from this remains to be seen, when I try to apply it.

OT: A personal note: My day was made for me after ten minutes. I got Nina as my partner for the sample dance.

I first saw Nigel and Nina at the 98 Le Jive championships, and it was at that moment that I discovered MJ could be a real art form. One of my ambitions ever since has been to have a dance with Nina, and be able to bring something to it. I seized the moment and did my triple-advance worship-at-feet( my max rating), and brought a smile to her lips. :clap:

[Whitebeard]

Is this signs of old age creeping in???


At first it creeps. Then it races. Be aware

[Daniel Sandars]

Today I attended Noelle Gray's :worthy: workshop in Ampthill for Bluesdance.
Fellow attendees were Nina :worthy: and Roger Chin :worthy: I would like to know what they thought of it.


Nina's comment in the questbook was "AWESOME" and on an email a few days later
"Nina
P.s thanks ever so much for the Blues w/shop. I had a great time"

Noelle, on her return, recieved a booking to choreograph a production of the musical swing for a state-side opera house. :cheers:

Noelle is obviously a star on the rise... :worthy: let us hope she is not too hot for BluesDance to handle when she next graces our Isles with her presence.

[Trish]

I think the teachers enjoyed most and I've learned most from have all got several things in common. They are all very good at putting over their enthusiasm for what they're teaching, and make you want to learn. They are stylish, but also make it look easy (even when it isn't), and tell you the secrets of how to make your dancing look more stylish - I have seen Nina demostrate a dozen things for a girl to do in a break in the music at a Blues class, and Viktor telling the girls exactly how to move their spare arms to look more interesting. The also emphasise the point that dancing isn't about plodding your feet in time to the music, but about feeling the music and flowing with it. You can't imagine one of Nigel and Nina's "Punters" Cabaret's at Camber without it having specific bits of showmanship that hit the music exactly. They are also very good at putting the moves across with the timings, and reiterating what they've said in a different way if people learning having grasped it. They all also make it fun! Even if it's a difficult routine, and you go away thinking, I need a lot more practice to get that to look right, you've still enjoyed the experience!

As well as most of those mentioned (sadly I still haven't been taught by Amir or Marc, but I think I've come across most of the other Modern jive teachers mentioned) I also like being taught by Kerry, Liz and Kirsty at Peterborough - all three of them are fun and enthusiastic, excellent dancers and good at watching the class to see how they're getting on, modifying things if necessary. I think Kerry and Kirsty are especially good at teaching the beginners which is an art in itself - they have a knack of putting people at their ease. I always enjoy the fact that Liz teaches dips jumps and seducers in her classes (even though she's usually leading!) and puts them over in a safe but fun way - giving alternatives for those that don't want to do them.

[bigdjiver]

[QUOTE=Daniel Sandars]Nina's comment in the questbook was "AWESOME" and on an email a few days later
"Nina
P.s thanks ever so much for the Blues w/shop. I had a great time"
... [QUOTE]

I do not wish to detract from Nina's comments in the slightest, I am sure she enjoyed it and added to her expertise, but I feel compelled to point out:

:clap: Nina brought a good time with her. :clap:

Nina was a joy throughout with just the right amount of clowning and quips, and when Noelle asked for us to make a stupid face, Nina made almost the stupidest looking face possible. (Actually mine was better, but you had to know my history to realise that my normal expression is as stupid as stupid gets )

[Daniel Sandars]

A page for "Groupie Teachers" (http://www.bluesdance.org.uk/73401.html):D

I decided to put up a page to enable Groupie Teachers (and dancers) to easily find their next dose of inspiration and dance from Noelle :worthy:
:yeah:

[Andy McGregor]

One of my ambitions ever since has been to have a dance with Nina, and be able to bring something to it. I seized the moment and did my triple-advance worship-at-feet( my max rating), and brought a smile to her lips. :clap:

Nina can smile with her shoulders - I expect she was doing that too :wink:

[jockey]

This thread has become an Amir love fest. Speaking personally, Amir is IMHO actually the best teacher in the MJ scene. But he does have a very long neck so he's not perfect:devil:

I also agree with Gus that Nelson is a fab teacher too - and he's also a brilliant DJ.

IMHO you do have to be a great dancer to be a great dance teacher. After all, how could anyone become better than their teacher:confused:

But, I don't think it follows that a great dancer can be a great teacher because they are very different skills.

I've been wondering for a while if other classically trained dancers could easily become great MJ teachers. If that were found to be true it would be brilliant: every town and village would have a great MJ teacher:clap:
Bit late in the day to be responding to this, but, drawing on my knowledge of a related field(?), in golf it is definitely the case that 1) doing it and teaching it are quite different skills; and
2) that the best teachers in the last 10 even 20 years were mere journeymen on the professional tour - Butch Harman (Tiger Woods' coach) is the most recent example. Why? Easy...the golf swing is a theoretical subject susceptiblle to the laws of physics yet most golfers turn pro as soon as they can and spend most of the school hols (and scjhooldays?) out on the course - not many A levels there then...

Watching 'Musicality' on TV got me to wondering about the value of drafting in 'foreign' (to MJ) coaches to teach 'movement' and/or theory of dance (Rockbottoms listening?) to us jivers (and Andy's last para makes a similar plea). Amir, Kate, Lilly have drawn on ballet and tango and Dan the Man on hip hop - and they are successful teachers; anyone else round the corner from, say, Broadway?

[Gus]

Watching 'Musicality' on TV got me to wondering about the value of drafting in 'foreign' (to MJ) coaches to teach 'movement' and/or theory of dance (Rockbottoms listening?) to us jivers (and Andy's last para makes a similar plea). Amir, Kate, Lilly have drawn on ballet and tango and Dan the Man on hip hop - and they are successful teachers; anyone else round the corner from, say, Broadway?I would love to think so ... I think there is vast untapped area of applying Jazz dance to Modern Jive ... the problem may be that (compared to 'real dancers') I would suggest that the standard of Modern Jive dancers is waaaaay below the standrad that these guys are used to working with. It might be a challenge for these profesional instructors to work with MJ dancers who have evolved from handbag dancers rather than students who have studied dance seriously. I stand by to be corrected on this hypothesis. :whistle:

[Rachel]

I would love to think so ... I think there is vast untapped area of applying Jazz dance to Modern Jive ... the problem may be that (compared to 'real dancers') I would suggest that the standard of Modern Jive dancers is waaaaay below the standrad that these guys are used to working with. It might be a challenge for these profesional instructors to work with MJ dancers who have evolved from handbag dancers rather than students who have studied dance seriously. I stand by to be corrected on this hypothesis. :whistle: Totally agree that a jazz/mj hybrid seems logical and natural. But I certainly don't think that professional instructors in jazz or similar disciplines would baulk at having to teach right at a very basic level.

For a start, you've got Mandy (sorry, forget her surname) who teaches solo jazz classes at Camber which are always great.

And, thinking of it, my jazz dance (& ballet/tap) teacher, Lesley, is used to teaching adults of ALL levels, including our local musical society males (mostly in their 50 & 60's) who'd never danced before in their lives. She was actually the one who introduced me to Ceroc (used to demo with Phil Roberts - you may remember her, Gus?), and I've no doubt at all that she'd love the chance to teach a jazz/mj fusion class. She danced professionally for many years in Italy, and she's an excellent teacher.

Rachel

[Chef]

It is always worth asking people like “dance captains” from shows if they will come and teach your MJ event on the basis that the worst anyone can say is no. You never know with these things. After all Kylie Jones (Latin American champion and strictly come dancing professional) is now teaching on Sunday nights at a Ceroc plus event in Godalming. If you don’t ask then you don’t get.

I do find though that “when the student is ready then the teacher will appear”. The students that are ready for something new go and seek it out. So far, after starting my dancing at Ceroc, I have tried Lindy Hop, ballroom and latin American, argentine tango, Ballet (I was described by my now ex girlfriend as “appalling”) and jazz dance. Each of these has taught me something and even when I have not mastered a thing I have never found any knowledge wasted. I have often been taught something only to find that it has taken me a year to acquire the skills needed to put it into practice.

Things that I have found useful are

1) Find your local professional theatre. They often have youth performance workshops in dance and the novelty of an “oldie” like myself wanting to do it is enough to let you have a try. They also give you information about the theatre and dance schools where they got their professional training and I have found these useful contacts to find good local dance teachers in a particular style. Dancing for a living doesn’t always pay well and often some of these people can be persuaded to come along to your event to teach.
2) Search the internet for professional dance schools (like the Laban centre in London) as they often do weekend or day courses that would be useful.
3) Adult education courses can often cover areas of dance (like my ballet classes).
4) Get videos of dance from your local library. If you see something you like concentrate on working out how to do it from the video. I once had a very entertaining afternoon with a birthday party of 7 year olds as we all tried to learn dance routines to pop tunes from a DVD that had been received as a present. It taught me timing, precision of placement and how to remember choreography. If you want a real treat buy a DVD called “Fosse”.

Instead of getting your dance teacher to come to your event why not organise a trip to the teachers’ venue. This makes the people that go to the dance teacher a self selecting group that contains only contain those people that are hungry enough for improvement to put themselves out. If you do it at your venue you will have a lot of people there who have only shown up out of force of habit (they won’t enjoy it because they don’t want it).

Nigel and Nina teach technique classes on lead and follow, spinning, structure of music, breaks and how to know where they are, and performance (covering slot dancing, presenting to an audience and much more). They are such great lessons that IMHO they should be made compulsory for dancers before they pick up bad habits and through constant practice, make their bad habits permanent.

Amir is now a final year student at Ballet Rambert and at Beach Boogie he taught us some of the dance drills that the students go through before each lesson. They may have looked simple but my experience of Amirs classes are that “if you think it is simple then you haven’t fully grasped the situation”.

In the Musicality show we saw that dancers need to practice dance drills on their own every day. If you can’t dance properly (stay on time, not fall off balance, execute the required elements like spins, be precise about where you are supposed to start and finish) on your own then you have no hope of being able to dance with a partner without it looking like an octopus in a tumble dryer. Musicality showed that when you dance then every part of your body is dancing (even when, in Fosses style most, of your body is dead still). Just look around an MJ floor and see how many of the women have left arms that appear to have gone to sleep, then contrast that with a latin American dancer on something like SCD.

The difference between dancing for a job (or because you like dancing) and dancing because it is a social activity is attitude. If you dance socially then the only time that you practice is at the venue. If you are serious about dance then you will make that extra effort with your spins, timing, musicality etc at home or by travelling to specialist workshops.


The more I learn the more I understand how little I know.

[RobC]

After all Kylie Jones (Latin American champion and strictly come dancing professional) is now teaching on Sunday nights at a Ceroc plus event in Godalming.
Ceroc Surrey, actually :wink: (although you can be easily mistaken - both franchisees work very closely together and cross-advirtise each other's venues and events .... if only all franchisees were that cooperative :whistle: )