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filthycute
19th-September-2002, 07:18 PM
There's so much talk just now about "experienced" ladies/gents and it got me thinking. What is classed as "experience?"

Is it....

1)People who are good dancers.

2)People who have danced for a number of years and are good dancers.

3)People who have danced for a number of years but their dancing hasn't improved much, so rather than insult them and call them Beginner/Intermediate (when they think dancing for 5 years automatically classes them as advanced) :what: you class them as "experienced" dancers.

Is it an "each to their own" kinda thing?

I mean i've only been cerocing for a year. To a beginner i would look experienced, but to an advanced person who has been at ballet classes since they were 3 i would probably look in-experienced.
Personally i wouldn't class myself as experienced......just experienced enough to help out a beginner/early intermediate if needs be :D

fc MAd. x x

DavidB
19th-September-2002, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by filthycute
What is classed as "experience?"To me it means someone who has experienced different things in dancing, such as:
- different levels of dancing (i.e. they were once not all that good, but are now a lot better)
- different ideas (including the one that worked for them)
- different teachers
- different styles of Ceroc
- possibly different types of dance

Hopefully they have something they can pass onto other people. It is so much easier to learn form others than to try to figure it all out for yourself.

David

John S
19th-September-2002, 08:28 PM
Good question, fc - after a year you're a much better dancer than some people (myself included) who have had more "experience" - partly because of your other dance knowledge that you bring to Ceroc, but mainly because like any other talent or athletic ability some folk are just inherently more gifted than others. (Being half my age probably helps, too!:( )

Maybe that's why the usual categories are Beginner/Intermediate/Advanced rather than Beginner/Experienced/Past It. :( :)

Personally I'm comfortable classing myself as "Intermediate", but I know I'll never reach a position where I (or anyone else) would class me as "Advanced", and it doesn't bother me as I've achieved far more than I ever thought I would when I began dancing and realised that both feet weren't left ones.

I think the term "Experienced" gets used in Ceroc mostly at the end of the lesson, when the teacher is encouraging beginners to seek out the more "experienced" dancers and ask them for a dance. After a very few weeks of classes even beginners can quite easily spot who in the room is in that category, so I don't think it's a big problem.

However, you're probably right about there being some "experienced" dancers who have been coming for years and still aren't much beyond the beginner stage, but fortunately I haven't come across them (or just haven't noticed!)aaarrrghh - sudden dreadful thought - maybe it's me you mean!!!!!!!!:( :( :(

filthycute
19th-September-2002, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by John S
aaarrrghh - sudden dreadful thought - maybe it's me you mean!!!!!!!!:( :( :(

:what: Certainly not!!! Your a wonderful dancer John. I'd even go as far as putting you in the "Super Duper Experienced Advanced" section :D:D :wink:



encouraging beginners to seek out the more "experienced" dancers

I noticed you used the term "more experienced".

I guess that would be the politically correct way of putting it.
People aren't experienced dancers. They're just more experienced dancers.

filthycute MAd. x x

John S
20th-September-2002, 03:58 AM
Originally posted by filthycute


Your a wonderful dancer John. I'd even go as far as putting you in the "Super Duper Experienced Advanced" section :D:D :wink:

filthycute MAd. x x

Aw shucks, I'm embarrassed! A section all of my own - the other residents of the retirement home will be so impressed!

(See how easy it is to say flattering things to a guy and get him to believe you?)

filthycute
20th-September-2002, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by John S
(See how easy it is to say flattering things to a guy and get him to believe you?)

I'm a master at it John :wink: :wink:

Anyways you were up extremely late/early. Is that your secret for becoming a fab dancer? Staying up all night to practice :D

filthycute MAd. x x

Franck
20th-September-2002, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by filthycute
There's so much talk just now about "experienced" ladies/gents and it got me thinking. What is classed as "experience?" My definition would be that "Experienced" Cerocers are the ones who are able to "mouth" all the instructions from the teacher simultaneously :wink:
It is very amusing to watch during the Beginners class, everyone saying: " Step back" or count the beats with the teacher...

I guess if you are able to do that, you have attended enough classes to qualify as "experienced" :nice:

Apart from that, experience is in the eye of the beholder (that means your partner or anyone watching you dance). Most people appear experienced to a new member, but to someone who has danced for years, experienced means something totally different...

I would rather think in terms of "relaxed" dancers vs "tense" dancers, ie the more experience, the more you relax and enjoy the dancing, whereas when starting, you are so worried about everything!
So if you want to move from Beginners stage to experienced level, simply relax and smile, your dancing will improve instantly!

Franck.

JMW
20th-September-2002, 10:44 PM
Experienced is...
1. When you switch off during the intermediate class; don't listen to what the teacher says ('cause you know the move already), and end up making a fool of yourself because he/she has put a slightly different ending on the move than what you'd normally dance in freestyle.
2. Know what track the DJ at a particular venue is going to play next ('cause there are only two good tracks on that CD and he's away to the bar)
3. When you don't apologise for every mistake you make when dancing - just keep on smiling and go into the next move, hoping your partner hasn't noticed/will put it down to some weird variation they've never come accross.
4. When you turn up at a social event completely unconnected with ceroc and drag a complete stranger up to dance on an empty dance floor (when stone cold sober)
5. When you rank clubs by the quality/size of their dance floor and the music they play rather than price of the booze/attractiveness of the clientele; and when you know the best venues in six or more cities.
6. When you remeber the time when a teacher, who shall remain nameless, managed to annoy a latin DJ hired for a party night so much that he stormed off with his kit leaving said teacher phoning round for a replacement DJ at 8.30pm on a Saturday night.

I guess I don't qualify:nice:

James
___________

"You look in her eyes; the music begins to play ..."

filthycute
21st-September-2002, 03:11 AM
Originally posted by JMW
Experienced is...
4. When you turn up at a social event completely unconnected with ceroc and drag a complete stranger up to dance on an empty dance floor (when stone cold sober)
I guess I don't qualify:nice:

Jameserm...nope....don't think i've ever done that :rolleyes: :yum:

Adding to your list ....

When you go clothes shopping and anything you buy is decided on if it's cerocable or not.

filthycute MAd. x x

filthycute
21st-September-2002, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Franck
It is very amusing to watch during the Beginners class, everyone saying: " Step back" or count the beats with the teacher...I danced with a guy who did this to me very recently. When i first heard him saying, "1,2,3,4 and twist, twist step back, return" instantly i thought, well judging by his dancing and the fact he was quoting these steps, he must be a beginner/early intermediate. Obviously he does this to keep himself in time. Erm...nope...he was actually doing this for my benefit! :what: Me being me :devil: took over the lead, and did what i wanted. He gave up eventually. :yum: He must have figured that me making him stop while i did a couple of bodyrolls just wasn't fitting in with his counting :yum:

filthycute MAd. x x

Gus
21st-September-2002, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by filthycute
When you go clothes shopping and anything you buy is decided on if it's cerocable or not.

filthycute MAd. x x Even sadder than that is when you go to buy some dance gear for Ceroc and the only place you find with gear that will do is a 'clubbing place' where you are attended to by two embryos who's combined age is still way less than yours, both are wearing enough face jewelry to constiture an offensive weapon and all the changing rooms are bathed in UV light and thumping drum and base music. ...... oh ... and I had to ask to make sure that the trousers and top I was buying were for men not ladies (felt even more stupid asking this question as the lad I asked was wearing a purple sarong!)

Maybe as a middle aged accountant I should stick to buying gear from M&S or Debenhams ....

Emma
22nd-September-2002, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by filthycute
When you go clothes shopping and anything you buy is decided on if it's cerocable or not. Hmm...yeah..picture me in the shoe shop the other day swivelling just to 'check'. You never know when you might need smooth-soled shoes!! :wink:

Wendy
24th-September-2002, 09:18 PM
Experienced is....

when you stop judging men by their shoes and start judging them by their combs :wink:

Wx

filthycute
24th-September-2002, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by Wendy
Experienced is....

when you stop judging men by their shoes and start judging them by their combs :wink:

Wx I thought i was the only one who did that!! Actually i judge everyone by their shoes.

um...ok i'm just assuming your as bad as me with the shoe thing....it could be possible that i'm the only shoe freak...ever :what:

Appologies now to people who think i'm looking them up and down....honestly, i'm just checking out your shoes :sick:
And guys...if your wearing white socks and black shoes (which of course should be a hanging offence!!!!!!) :reallymad: I'll know about it! when it comes to the lower regions, i see all!!! :what::yum:

filthycute x x

Jon
27th-September-2002, 02:12 PM
I find most of the good dancers wear dance sneakers or normal shoes, and those that wear black and whites tend not to be as good as you think they will be, with some exceptions of course.

Gota go and hide my black and whites now:tears:

Bill
28th-September-2002, 02:11 PM
so it's not just women who start to split the wardrobe in to dance and 'other' clothes then:grin:

I used to have smart (work) and casual clothes but now spend more time buying clothes (I've always loved buying clothes :waycool: ) that will be good for dancing.new lycra tops, washable trousers, sparkly belts.................:rolleyes:

But am I experienced ???? Well does 5 years count ? It makes me experienced in some senses but doesn't necessarily make me 'good' :sick:

There are, as others have said, dancers who have been coming for ages but will not improve but others ( mostly women) who after only a few months are extremely good though not necesarily 'experienced'. There are dozens of women in Aberdeen, Dundee and Edinburgh ( sorry but haven't been to Glasgow for ages ! :sorry ) who are clearly experienced AND very good. FC is one of them ( cheque later please FC) but lots of others.

Having some experience of other dance styles does help and it's interesting to note that even on the first night it's clear that some folk have great balance and rhythm but for others it takes a little longer.

And I do find myself wording the moves and the counts when Lorna, Franck or whoever is teaching...... is that experience or just sad:confused:

Jon
28th-September-2002, 08:47 PM
I think an experienced dancer is someone who:
1). Stands out from the rest when dancing
2). Is relaxed
3). Smiles (makes you look twice as good just by smiling!)
4). Is confident
5). Eye contact (something so many people dont do!)
6). Considers their partner when dancing.
7). Has fun on the dance floor and is not afraid of looking foolish. (Trust me you wont look foolish people watching will think wow).

I think it's the people who let go of all their inhabitions on the dance floor and interpret the music that stand out. Those are the dancers that others aspire to be like. Anyone can dance the moves but only a small percentage can interpret the music.

nessie2611
29th-September-2002, 07:15 PM
I have been involved in Ceroc for about 3 years now and have found that experience is not necessarily how long you have been dancing but how you interpret the moves.:what: I have found that some of the "better" male dancers do not want to lower their standards and dance with "beginners". I find this quite amusing because, as a male led dance, it is up to the men to lead proficiently enough for any lady to follow regardless of ability. I just have to question if some of these so called good dancers are not confident enough in their own ability as a dancer to take on the challenge of a lady who is classed as a "beginner":really: .

I have had many dances with men who think they are gods gift to Ceroc and have had many comments like "Bet you've never done that move before!" thrown at me after a particularly bad execution of a perfectly good move. :tears: Most men appreciate that a woman is not going to be able to read the signals easily on a first dance and that it takes 2 or 3 dances before you get used to a particular man's signals so please bear this in mind when you are dancing with someone for the first time.:wink:

Above all, remember we all started as beginners at some stage and we all started because we wanted to learn something that was fun and sociable.

Love Nessie xxx

Happy Dancing :cheers:

Jon
29th-September-2002, 09:40 PM
Totally agree with you nessie in that it can take afew dances for the lady to read the mans signals, but it takes just as long for the man to learn how to dance with the ladys style.

As a guy I tend to change my style of dancing depending on the experience of my partner. So when I dance with a beginner it will be different than when I dance with someone I know. Having said that the more I dance with the same beginner the more style I add, this can be fun since you can surprise a beginner more than an experienced dancer. Any man who doesn't want to lower their standard by dancing with people less experienced than themselves is missing out on this fun.

Also all of those men who think they are gods gift to Ceroc, I would say are not very good dancers because they tend to dance with themselves (fancy themselves springs to mind). The fact that a lady is attached to them doesn't matter. To a beginner they might look good but to a more experienced dancer they look silly.

It's these type of men who think they know everything who can easily upset their partner by saying the wrong thing to her. I've often had women I know who are experienced dancers come up to me moaning that they have just been told off because the move didn't go right. It really can ruin her evening let alone her confidence. So to these men I say 'You are leading it's your fault, please don't upset our ladies. Treat a lady like a lady!'.

After all a dance is surposed to be a brief relationship between 2 people where you flirt with one another and the music.

Jon
29th-September-2002, 09:43 PM
Experience is being able to do Adam Nathanson's Up Close And Personnal Workshop.

Anyone who's done it will know what I'm talking about.

Franck
30th-September-2002, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by Jon
Experience is being able to do Adam Nathanson's Up Close And Personnal Workshop.No, no, experience is what you need to do Adam's workshop :really: :yum: :devil:

Franck.:nice:

Bill
30th-September-2002, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by nessie2611
I have had many dances with men who think they are gods gift to Ceroc and have had many comments like "Bet you've never done that move before!" thrown at me after a particularly bad execution of a perfectly good move. :tears The only time I think - 'you've never done that move before' ( I would never say it !) is when I get the move wrong. If I'm quick I hope she won't notice :rolleyes: and now I'm more 'experienced' I can just about get away with it before she realsies :grin:

Maybe that's a definition of experienced dancer.......quick enough to cover up all the mistakes and keep smiling hoping anyone looking doesn't realsie it's ****-up 25 ( and that's just during 1 song :tears: ).

But it is meant to be fuin isn't it :confused:

Alfie
30th-September-2002, 05:45 PM
Hi All,
I'm with you Bill, I thought it was supposed to be fun aswell. I recon if you you can dance with a partner of any standard, and they enjoy it, and you enjoy it, thats experienced enough. :D