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Gadget
5th-May-2004, 12:40 PM
Been thinking a bit about the level of my dancing and trying to raise it to do justice to some of the ladies I have been dancing with recently*. While I learn bit's and pieces from every class and large chunks from workshops, these are aimed at everyone present. And although I’m my own worst critic, I think I need some individual, one-on-one tutorage/advice directed at my dancing.

{*Erm... not that the quality of the ladies I have been dancing with for a while is poor by any standard :flower:; just that the quality of visiting men has highlighted just how good they can look when they are not dancing with me. (did I get away with that?:innocent::D)}

So, a couple of things spring to mind...

- Getting a regular partner: I normally have a maximum of two dances with anyone of an evening (unless I’ve danced with everyone already). Will this help my dancing, or only help me dance better with this partner?

- Asking teachers for feedback: that’s fine for one dance, but the advice can only relate to the one dance they have with you; how can they know a one-time mistake from a genuine ‘crease’ in your dancing? Does the preasure of dancing with a teacher who is looking to criticise make a worse dance?

- Asking a teacher (/dace guru) for private lessons: generally only good if there is a specific area you(/they)want to work on. If of the same gender, you need a willing sacrifice. How much do they charge?

- Form a ‘dance buddy’ workshop type gathering where five or six people get together and pass on tips, work out moves and help each other improve.*

- Ask everyone you dance with: could be tedious and look like fishing for compliments. The mix of styles and abilities may produce conflicting advice. If people are looking for errors, they are not concentrating on dancing, so they don’t enjoy it as much. And it take time away from the main enjoyment of the remaining evening’s dancing.

Any other ideas/advice?
{* I like this idea: sort of stolen from Gus. Anyone up here want to develop it?}

DavidB
5th-May-2004, 01:02 PM
Definitely recommend private lessons. It is not just the teacher's knowledge, but the environment. You know you are going to have someone work on your dancing for an hour, and you are prepared for it. To get the same feedback when you are not expecting it can be off-putting.

Asking a teacher a simple question is fine. But to keep asking questions of the same teacher when they are not teaching is a bit rude. It feels like you are trying to get a private lesson for nothing.

I've seen the "dance Buddy workshop" working well. But I've also seen it spread bad habits. When it seems to work best is after a workshop, with the aim of developing the ideas from that workshop.

David

bigdjiver
5th-May-2004, 01:13 PM
As I understand it, the dance buddy workshop is, more or less, how Ceroc and Leroc began.

I don't think people will copy bad habits, and it may develop new ideas. I would love to try something this with blues dancing, but I am not the social type to organise such a thing.

ChrisA
5th-May-2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Gadget
- Getting a regular partner: I normally have a maximum of two dances with anyone of an evening (unless I’ve danced with everyone already). Will this help my dancing?

It can do. Since working with Jayne for the last couple of comps I've been able to sort out a few problems with my lead; we've refined things and I've found it possible to do a couple of things with other partners in freestyle that I wouldn't have even attempted before.

But you've got to be aware of what you're doing - it's no good at all if you can't sort out whether something that goes wrong is your fault, hers, or a combination.



- Asking a teacher (/dance guru) for private lessons:....... :yeah:

We had one PL before Blackpool, and it was well worth it.

One idea that you didn't mention:

Video yourself dancing with someone you feel you dance at your best with, or get someone to do it for you.

Then, if it's really true that you're your own harshest critic, you should have some material to work on :D

Chris

under par
5th-May-2004, 03:05 PM
"We had one PL before Blackpool, and it was well worth it."

I also had 3 private lessons bought for my last birthday, great fun, learned lots and improved dramatically for a short period of time, then slipped back to old habits.
:blush:

"Video yourself dancing with someone you feel you dance at your best with, or get someone to do it for you.

Then, if it's really true that you're your own harshest critic, you should have some material to work on "

This is a very frightening experience seeing yourself on video only to be attempted by extremly self confident persons


under par:grin:

ChrisA
5th-May-2004, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by under par
This is a very frightening experience seeing yourself on video only to be attempted by extremly self confident persons
Frightening, definitely :D

Extremely self-confident?

Nope. :D

We didn't feel at all confident when we were setting the vid up on the tripod, and it was truly "heart in mouth" when we watched it. Some things (not many) were better than we expected, some things were worse (aarrghh!).

It comes down to how much you want to improve.

If you are satisfied with your mental picture of how you look, then by all means don't bother with the vid.

But if you want something real, more than you want a good feeling based on an illusion in your mind, then the camera never lies :tears:

Chris

Peter
5th-May-2004, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by ChrisA
if you want something real, more than you want a good feeling based on an illusion in your mind, then the camera never lies

Video recordings of the URBAN METRO team cabaret rehearsals were circulated to team members every week for 12 weeks running up to the Ceroc Champs. Without doubt, this made a huge contribution to the team's success ....

R E S P E C T

Sheepman
5th-May-2004, 04:34 PM
A point that Amir made after his class last night, and I'm sure I've mentioned it here in the past. The brain takes 6 to 7 hours to absorb and sort out the connections after learning something new. So it is important not to try cramming too much in one go, because the later stuff you are learning just "overwrites" the earlier stuff.

Videoing - absolutely essential, though I suppose mirrors are even better, but twice as embarrassing.

Greg

ChrisA
5th-May-2004, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by Sheepman
Videoing - absolutely essential, though I suppose mirrors are even better, but twice as embarrassing.
Never understood why mirrors would be any good (except on the ceiling of course :D ) since you can't really dance properly and watch what you're doing at the same time.

I suppose they'd be Ok to check a static line, but how do you use them when you're moving?

Chris

Sheepman
5th-May-2004, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by ChrisA
you can't really dance properly and watch what you're doing at the same time. Good point, I needed a reason to make sure I avoid mirrors! But to be more serious, it is checking those static positions which can be so important, and any move can be broken down into those "photo moment" positions.


Greg

Peter
5th-May-2004, 05:10 PM
Mirrors are excellent for checking out how you are doing compared to other members of a team / class ...

Adam's Chigwell venue is the best example I know

Gadget
5th-May-2004, 05:20 PM
I don't have any problem with mirrors (used to hire a dance studio to practice fencing in), but they only give a 'front on' perspective - fine for a sport that you are only interested in what your opponent sees from infront of you, but MJ is a 360º thing (or at least a fixed perspective that is seldom directly infront of you)

Video is a possibility, but I think that I would need either a regular partner or approach everyone I dance with to see if they accept being recorded. As the title suggested, I'm looking for some 'outside' input: mine is sort of bias. I could ask others opinions of the video I suppose... Now who can I get to record it? Anyone know if there is a general policy regarding Camcorders on normal nights? How would you feel if your partner asked if it was OK if your dance was recorded?

{I have been informed by a neutral party that I don't look as smooth or in control as I think I do; at least they said that person B looked smoother and more in control than me; and I thought that I was smoother than him. :tears:}

David Franklin
5th-May-2004, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by Sheepman
Good point, I needed a reason to make sure I avoid mirrors!The dance scenes in "Dracula - Dead and Loving It" give a good reason to avoid mirrors, albeit one that hopefully wouldn't bother anyone on the forum...

[An awful film, that I admit I only videoed to see the dance scenes with David and Sharon Savoy...]

Dave

bigdjiver
5th-May-2004, 07:16 PM
Better than video or mirrors is video and mirrors, especially if you can find a mirrored corner.

Gary
6th-May-2004, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by DavidB

I've seen the "dance Buddy workshop" working well. But I've also seen it spread bad habits.

I'd like to try the dance buddy workshop thing. What sort of bad habits has it spread, and how, and how would I avoid that in future?

under par
6th-May-2004, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by Sheepman
A point that Amir made after his class last night, and I'm sure I've mentioned it here in the past. The brain takes 6 to 7 hours to absorb and sort out the connections after learning something new. So it is important not to try cramming too much in one go, because the later stuff you are learning just "overwrites" the earlier stuff.

Greg

Not cramming too much has helped me.:what:

I try and take only one move from a lesson. one that I can feel easy with and try to add that to my list of favourites.:nice:

Rather than try and learn numerous sequences of moves offered in every lesson of which I am not easy with over 50%.

I hope this makes sense as I have just completed a very boring night shift and am just about to retire to my bed.:cheers:

bigdjiver
6th-May-2004, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by Sheepman
A point that Amir made after his class last night, and I'm sure I've mentioned it here in the past. The brain takes 6 to 7 hours to absorb and sort out the connections after learning something new. So it is important not to try cramming too much in one go, because the later stuff you are learning just "overwrites" the earlier stuff. OT It also helps if a sequence of moves are learned with one partner to one piece of music in one place. The brain finds it easier to remember "when I was here last" and "when this was playing last".

DavidB
6th-May-2004, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by Gary
What sort of bad habits has it spread, and how, and how would I avoid that in future? The key is to understand why someone does something, and not necessarily what they do. It is at its most extreme when doing lifts and drops. A couple might do something one way because a different way is painful. But for everyone else the other way may be safer.

For dancing workshops it is very tempting to copy someone's style. But you have to be careful not to let their style get in the way of your own technique. Eg you might be trying to improve your own individual movement, but ruining your connection in the process.

"Buddy workshops" are almost certainly better for improving your dancing than just working as an individual or a couple. I would hope that private lessons, and instructor-led workshops would be better still, but they are obviously more expensive and less convenient.

Re Mirrors. If you practice regularly in front of mirrors, you can get to rely on them. So make sure you periodically face away from them.

David