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Paul F
22nd-April-2004, 11:48 AM
Well, its not far off now and im geeting the teeniest bit excited - and im not even competing.

Sounds like its gonna be good with the big screens and the beeb.

Got a group of us coming down from Manchester so would be great to find a Sat dance.

Just been looking over the judging list which has just been published (www.cerocchamps.com) and i have to say what a fantastic line up of judges.

Well done to ceroc , they have obviously put a lot of thought into who will be judging which category. Always a contentious issue :grin:

What does everyone else think?

.....and for those who are busy practicing ..... best of luck :cheers:

Gus
22nd-April-2004, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by Paul F
and i have to say what a fantastic line up of judges.


OK ... time to start the annual bun fight :wink:

'Fantastic' on what criteria? Good dancers, good teachers .... but I only recognise a few from the competition circuit. I’m not saying that they aren’t up to the job by any means but how do they compare to the judging panel at, say, Blackpool or Britroc?

Main (usual) gripe, how about some non-CTA judges?

{ODA mode off etc}


Originally posted by Paul F
Got a group of us coming down from Manchester


Good news ... hope you guys do well and bring back some trophies.

Tiggerbabe
22nd-April-2004, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by Paul F
.
would be great to find a Sat dance.

My thinking exactly Paul - now all we need is to actually find one - Bradders ?????????:flower: :flower: :hug:

DavidB
22nd-April-2004, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Gus
Main (usual) gripe, how about some non-CTA judges? Does Simon White count?

Gus
22nd-April-2004, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by DavidB
Does Simon White count?

Has he been assimilated yet? :wink:

Good point. I would see Simon as bringing an extra dimension to the judging.

Its a shame that Sue Taylor isn't judging more categories as shes a pretty experienced judge. Would also have been good to see the likes of Saffron and Marc on the panel.

However, with the creme of Ceroc judging (especially Linda and Mick Wenger) who is going to represent CTA in the Open?

TheTramp
22nd-April-2004, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Gus
However, with the creme of Ceroc judging (especially Linda and Mick Wenger) who is going to represent CTA in the Open? Did anyone from the CTA compete last year?? Can't remember.

Trampy

bradders
22nd-April-2004, 02:25 PM
Lucky Dip
So why are you not competing Paul F? ...... there are still some places left in the mens lucky dip which you can join in...... call Christine on 079 500 432 65 and book in.

In fact any men who are coming down and have not entered the Lucky Dip call up and get a place while you still can!

Ladies is full and has a waiting list...don't disappoint them boys!!

Saturday Night
We tried to book Hammersmith for the Saturday but it was pre booked for a special event ages and ages ago.
Venues are just too expensive down here to take a punt. Last year we did Chiswick, did not have a good turn out and lost over 500 quid. Would have done Ashtons this year but they have knocked down the room we would normally use...shame.

Judges
This is a Ceroc event, we make no apologise for using Ceroc Teachers as judges. Having said that we have brought in some non CTA judges this year.

The judges this year include Nicky Haslam and Robert Winter plus a professional dancer who has done some high profile shows in the West End. Simon White is also judging, and Clayton and Janine were asked but they decided to compete.

Filming
We have been told by the BBC that they intend to come down and film the Champs this year for a couple of dance orientated programmmes to be shown later this year. This could be very exciting. The winning dancers could be asked to perform live on a mainstream Saturday night programme. This is a great profile for Ceroc and for Modern Jive as a whole.

Hope to see you all at the Champs.

Come and say hello, I will be the one running around looking stressed!!

TheTramp
22nd-April-2004, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by bradders
Come and say hello, I will be the one running around looking stressed!! Why??

Surely it's all been planned down to the last detail now, and everything will run smoothly and on time (as usual), and it'll be a stroll in the park for you.... :D

Trampy

jiveclone
22nd-April-2004, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Gus
[Main (usual) gripe, how about some non-CTA judges?

Is Nicky Haslam CTA?

Is Robert Winter CTA?

Sheepman
22nd-April-2004, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by Paul F
would be great to find a Sat dance. This is what I was hoping for too, as I won't be there on the Sunday. The nearest dance I'v found so far is in Windsor (not Ceroc), a nice (fast) dance floor and probably space for about 150, but surely there must be others?

Greg

TheTramp
22nd-April-2004, 02:38 PM
Actually, I do have one (minor) gripe.

Is it possible to get the results up quicker? There always seems to be a huge wait between the end of the round, and the results for the next heats going up.

Would mean less waiting around at the noticeboard, and also more time to prepare (if you're lucky (good) enough to get through). Or more time in the local pub to commiserate....!

Trampy

Gus
22nd-April-2004, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by jiveclone
Is Nicky Haslam CTA?

Is Robert Winter CTA?

Good point ... not CTA but they are Ceroc instructors. I was thinking more about high calibre independents of the like of Nigel and Nina, Viktor, Lydia, Dave and Lilly etc.

Its not a major gripe ... more an observation.

TheTramp
22nd-April-2004, 03:41 PM
Have to admit that I don't have a problem with the CTA judges.

I don't think I'd want to see all the competitions being judged by the same few people. Else, it'd just be styles that they like who would do well all the time.

Given that some of the CTA people are quite likely to appreciate the more "clubby" side of MJ (people like Natasha, Mick, Dan Slape etc.), I'd have thought that it would make you happier Gus...

Trampy

RobC
22nd-April-2004, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by DavidB
Does Simon White count?
Technically, neither Simon or Dan Slape are CTA - none of us down in Ceroc Plus have been through any CTA training .... yet :wink:

It's a shame that a judge of Simon's calibre is only being asked to judge the Lucky Dip. Surely they should be drawing on his experience at having judged at every Blackpool competition to-date and not side-lining him to 'tapping people on the shoulder'.

Oh, and while I'm moaning - why is it that Ceroc feels the need to have so many judges ? Could it be that the (CTA) judges just aren't up to the job of judging a whole competition :confused: Surely having that many judges is only going to lead to more inconsistent judging and controversey after the event ?

Personally, I'm sticking to my stance and boycoting the Ceroc Champs until it is moved to another venue. Good luck to all entering, but you won't see me there !

Lory
22nd-April-2004, 03:45 PM
How many judges are there and who are they?

TheTramp
22nd-April-2004, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Lory
How many judges are there and who are they? It's on the ceroc champs website Lory.

Again, I may be defending Ceroc a lot today, but I don't see the problem with having different judges. It'll be the same judges for every round of the same category. It's just different judges for each category. I don't see how this will lead to inconsistencies (any more than people would perceive anyhow, the same as with any competition).

It just means that the people judging can have a chance to enjoy themselves during the day as well, and not have to be there, watching every single heat. Which, since I'm guessing that they aren't paid, is probably a good thing for them.

Trampy

RobC
22nd-April-2004, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by Lory
How many judges are there and who are they?

http://www.cerocchamps.com/judges.php
(oops, just realised Simon is judging the showcase as well - I take back that comment about him being sidelined)

24 Judges !!!!!!!

Bill Cooper
Angela Shetty
Annalisa Martin
Annie Hayes
Becky Cooper
Bill Cooper
Dan Slape
Debbie Attwood
Franck Pauly
Jean Harris
Kelly Hudson
Kristen Corsie
Linda Barker
Mick Wenger
Natasha Alvarado
Nicky Haslam
Obi Aghanya
Paul Dodds
Robert Winter
Ruth Quigley
Simon Durbin
Simon White
Sue Packham - Taylor
Virginia Woolf

RobC
22nd-April-2004, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by RobC
24 Judges !!!!!!!
OK, I'm having a bad day - counted Bill twice, so that's ONLY 23 :really:

Gus
22nd-April-2004, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by TheTramp
Have to admit that I don't have a problem with the CTA judges.

Don’t think I said I did ... If its a Ceroc event, seems fair enough.... and particularly agree with your point about same people judging all the time.



Given that some of the CTA people are quite likely to appreciate the more "clubby" side of MJ (people like ..... Mick

Mick clubby????? Since WHEN?? Great dancer but would not have classified him as a Club style dancer.



I'd have thought that it would make you happier Gus...

Me ... I'm always happy .... and having 150 miles between me and the champs make me happier. Sorry, but my previous experiences of the event (as competitor and spectator) were far from happy. Will be quite happy hosting the Battle of the DJs:grin:

TheTramp
22nd-April-2004, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Gus
Don’t think I said I did ... If its a Ceroc event, seems fair enough.... and particularly agree with your point about same people judging all the time.And I didn't say that you didn't. I was just saying that I don't :) If you can follow that. I apologise for not being clear....



Mick clubby????? Since WHEN?? Great dancer but would not have classified him as a Club style dancer.
Well, maybe not as much as others. But I'm sure that I've heard someone say that he was doing some hip hop type classes.... might even have been Mick himself.

Trampy

Bill
22nd-April-2004, 04:15 PM
Some very good and experienced teachers amongst that lot :D

Great to see Bill and Bex involved and of course our own Franck and Obi. Is it only just over a week ......................:sick: :what:

Paul F
22nd-April-2004, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by bradders
Lucky Dip
So why are you not competing Paul F? ...... there are still some places left in the mens lucky dip which you can join in...... call Christine on 079 500 432 65 and book in.

The decision to go down on the sat night or sunday morning has not been finalised yet so cant guarantee i will be there in time. :tears:

Not sure who is driving yet so cant guarantee we will make it there at all :grin:

As for the judges, I see a god mixture of competitors , non-competitors, oversees, ceroc and non-ceroc. All in all I believe that is a good blend.

Gus - I see what you mean about wanting people with competition experience (although there are) but I believe there are many people out there who are just as good , if not better, than the regulars you see competing year in year out. For whatever reason they might not wish to compete, no time etc. .

Minnie M
22nd-April-2004, 04:29 PM
Although I have never been asked to judge (not saying I should be) I would have thought being locked away 'judging' all day must be very very tiring - I think the idea of having different judges for different sections must be an improvement (can't say if the selection be correct though)

I agree that there should be an 'outsider' on most of the sections thus giving an unbiased view - or is it for the best 'Ceroc' dancer :wink:

TheTramp
22nd-April-2004, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Minnie M
I agree that there should be an 'outsider' on most of the sections thus giving an unbiased view - or is it for the best 'Ceroc' dancer :wink: Why not?? It is the 'Ceroc' champs after all... :wink:

Trampy

Gus
22nd-April-2004, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by Paul F
Gus - I see what you mean about wanting people with competition experience (although there are) but I believe there are many people out there who are just as good , if not better, than the regulars you see competing year in year out. For whatever reason they might not wish to compete, no time etc. .

Totally agree ... BUT I think that if you are going to judge something it helps if you can appreciate it from both sides. I would have more confidence in being judged by an experienced competition dancer than an experienced teacher. There are some instructors that I would accept purely on existing reputation without me knowing of their competition 'pedigree', e.g. Roy, Linda ... but to be frank there a fair few names down there that I don’t recognise. Going back to a previous thread, if I was serious about competing the quality and reputation would be a major deciding factor as to whether I would enter or not.

Emma
22nd-April-2004, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by Gus
but to be frank there a fair few names down there that I don’t recognise. I don't really undersatnd why all the names have to be recognisable...surely a little variety is a good thing (new blood and all that) and newer judges have to begin somewhere, don't they?

if I was serious about competing the quality and reputation would be a major deciding factor as to whether I would enter or not.Really?! Perhaps I am being naive here but I was under the impression that most people entered competitions because a) they wanted to take part, be seen, have fun and b) they wanted to win :devil: :wink:

Gus
22nd-April-2004, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by Emma
I don't really undersatnd why all the names have to be recognisable...surely a little variety is a good thing (new blood and all that) and newer judges have to begin somewhere, don't they?

Agreed. Just an observation .... it was more following on from the line of a previous (annual) discussion that the calibre of a dance competition can, to an extent, rest on the calibre of the judges ... and if you dont know who the judges its harder to make that call.





......Perhaps I am being naive here but I was under the impression that most people entered competitions because a) they wanted to take part, be seen, have fun and b) they wanted to win :devil: :wink:

And if you want to win dont you want to be sure that you have confidence in the judges to make the 'right' decision:wink: I think you are right that the majority of competitors are there for the fun .... but if you are taking it seriously then its a different matter. I've often wondered what its like for the top competitors when they know that they are being judged by dancers they are better than (NOT saying that that is the case at Ceroc before I get flamed).

Anyway ... think I'm getting bored of my own views re judges on this thread that Paul so kindly started. I hope that all the competitors have a great time and I look forward to the traditional barrage of mutual congratulation, calls of 'we wuz robbed' and even finer displays of dancing. Oh ... and COME ON FC & JB!!:clap: :clap:

Jayne
23rd-April-2004, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by Gus
COME ON FC & JB!!:clap: :clap:
Are they coming down for the ceroc champs?

J :confused:

Bill
23rd-April-2004, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by Jayne
Are they coming down for the ceroc champs?

J :confused:

Don't think so................... which is a pity.