Is it bad manners for a Lady to initiate...

[Daisy Chain]

…a break?

The reason I ask is that I don’t often get to dance with men who use breaks and on the rare occasion that it happens, I make a mess of it. :tears: So, obviously, I need more practice and I won’t get it unless I take control.

Since I’m becoming desperate to play at statues, I was wondering if the men would consider it bad manners for me to spring one on them – after all, most men get very cross when the lady starts leading. I did try one or two last Saturday but didn’t manage to make either man join in…... gave them both a fright though!

Also, I fear that if I lead a break and the man doesn’t notice, how do I avoid a nasty yank as he hauls me into the next move without the help of my own momentum?

And how do I make it clear to the man that I’m about to do one? I suppose I could always yell STOP at the appropriate point.


Now where did I put that whip?

Daisy

[Divissima]

Hi Daisy Chain

I find that is very hard to lead a break, even with a lead who usually likes to muck around with breaks. I seem to recall there was a thread, or at least a discussion, a while back about sabotaging the lead - would be good to find it if you can.

I'm still learning, how to do this (TwK might have a few words to say about my sabotaging his leads, but fortunately he doesn't come on the Forum very often :wink: ) but the best way I've found is not to catch after a spin - that way, if you are spinning just before a break, you are outside the man's lead and can do whatever you like in those preciousl seconds :waycool:

The other way is to wiggle - men usually like to slow down to watch this, so if you start wiggling early in the dance, the lead is going to be hoping you might wiggle some more if he gives you the chance... at least, that's the theory :blush:

[Emma]

Hee hee hee

Hmmm...I believe the received wisdom is that it is fine for the girls to lead a break, as it takes the pressure off the boys who are busy thinking up the next move and concentrating upon protecting the girls from evil space hoggers and aerials wizards (no, not you David ;) )

However my experience is that it's wise to be extremely cautious about whom one initiates a break with. That whole 'you're leading' thing is likely to raise it's ugly heid if you attempt it with someone who doesn't like an independant woman...

My advice to you is either wiggle something they like to look at, or be careful who you do it with (ahem).

Failing that, the whip sounds like a plan :what: :grin: :cheers:

[philsmove]

Very few ladies lead a break, so my experience on this is very limited

But when they do it’s really nice


As Divissima and Emma say a wriggle certainly works

But who is responsible for breaking the break


Unless I mistaken ElaineB will answer this

:D

[Groovy Dancer]

Originally posted by Daisy Chain
…a break?

The reason I ask is that I don’t often get to dance with men who use breaks and on the rare occasion that it happens, I make a mess of it. :tears: So, obviously, I need more practice and I won’t get it unless I take control.

Since I’m becoming desperate to play at statues, I was wondering if the men would consider it bad manners for me to spring one on them – after all, most men get very cross when the lady starts leading. I did try one or two last Saturday but didn’t manage to make either man join in…... gave them both a fright though!



Daisy



Well firstly I would say that whenever dancing I try to give the opportunity for the lady to strut her stuff or do the 'wiggle' as I understand.:yeah:

However I find it quite encouraging if the lady decides to hijack the lead,be it during a break in the track being played or when the trend of the moves being done are quite relaxed grin: .

This is a partnered dance. If the lady takes the initiative while the lead is contemplating what move comes next, this 'hijack' during the dance is welcoming.:clap:
My view is go for it.


:whistle: :whistle:

[Emma]

Originally posted by philsmove a wriggle certainly works Hey there's a world of difference between a wriggle and a wiggle :wink: :what:

[spindr]

Hmmm, I think if you sabotage before the break, then it's ok as you're still leading.

Otherwise, it can get too disruptive -- if the guys already got plans for the break, then those'll go by the wayside (might cause slight upset -- or remind the leader that they haven't practised an octupul windmill for a while) -- if the leader hasn't got plans for the break, then you might end up yanking *their* arm unexpectedly.

What you can do -- is to train your leader to hear the breaks... once you can get them to stop somewhere vaguely near a break, and wiggle seductively (something like "The slut" will get their attention) then they might be somewhat keener to try and hear the next one :)

One other technique that you can do is something like a bunny hop, or little jump when there's a break -- hopefully that will help you practise finding them, and won't be too disruptive to the lead/follow -- and if the leader asks you can say that you're trying to hit the breaks. It can look a bit odd, but I know one follower who manages this pretty well --- I like to think of it as "Masai" dance styling.

SpinDr.

[Tiggerbabe]

Originally posted by philsmove
Very few ladies lead a break, so my experience on this is very limited
Not danced in Scotland much then Phil? :wink: :whistle:

[Gary]

I've had a few girls grab the lead so they can do something special (break, wiggle, whatever).

The most obvious signal back to the guy is to grab his hand with a bit more pressure, giving him a clue that "something's up, let me drive for a sec". As someone else suggested, you can just not catch the hand after a free spin. One cute thing I've seen is when a guy does an I-turn U-turn (don't know if that's the UK name), the girl just stops and refuses to do her turn.

At first it really flustered me when girls grabbed the lead. I'm getting better at coping with it now. My problem now is knowing exactly when to grab it back... (suggestions welcome).

Oh, and it's absolutely NOT "bad manners" -- girls should get a chance to take the initiative at least some of the time.

[spindr]

Originally posted by Gary
One cute thing I've seen is when a guy does an I-turn U-turn (don't know if that's the UK name), the girl just stops and refuses to do her turn.

Sounds like the guy's trying to lead a figure of eight (http://www.afterfive.co.uk/guide/latest/html/FigureOfEight.html) and the girl turns it into a resistor (if she leads him to turn the opposite way afterwards).

SpinDr.

[Chicklet]

I have found that a good place to start this kind of thing with a partner new to the concept, both for my confidence to do it and in order to break the men in gently (geddit) is to turn half speed from time to time (hand overhead turns), with either a wriggle or a wiggle on the end of it as I come back to face and look em straight in the eye with a leer and dare em to complain :devil:

But as Sheena kinda suggests, best plan is to line all the men up for a three step treatment in Glasgow with Wendy, in Edinburgh with Elsie and finish them off in Dundee with the that whole gang and visitors from Eberdeen!:D

Also love an N and R move, travelling figure of 8, change to ballroomdrop grip (still right to right) and the girl (or both) can go down and take their time wiggling back up again.

[azande]

Originally posted by Chicklet
But as Sheena kinda suggests, best plan is to line all the men up for a three step treatment in Glasgow with Wendy :rofl: Surely not Wendy!! :wink:

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Groovy Dancer
My view is go for it. :whistle: :whistle:

Providing she stays in the slot, right? :whistle: :wink:

Oh, and remember to keep your tickets in your pocket :rofl:

[Siobhan (Forum Plant)]

You can also just let go of his hand- that works- and do your thang, and then grab'im again.

There's nothing worse that a man who can't bear being upstaged though, the type that get rather rattled when you do anything out of the norm. and hence they lose their 'control'.

There is a workshop about 'stealing the lead' I heard about, anyone know?

[Bill]

Originally posted by Daisy Chain
…a break?


Now where did I put that whip?

Daisy



:rolleyes: :whistle: :D ...................whips eh.......... want to try that in Scotland :innocent:

[Bill]

Originally posted by Divissima

The other way is to wiggle - men usually like to slow down to watch this, so if you start wiggling early in the dance, the lead is going to be hoping you might wiggle some more if he gives you the chance... at least, that's the theory :blush:


and you do it so well............................. I'm more than happy to slow down and stop for as long as a woman wants to wiggle ... :rolleyes: :D Movement is better than just playing statues. So girls just keep wiggling .... :whistle:


ps.....I'm back at work again............:D

[Sheepman]

Originally posted by Siobhan
You can also just let go of his hand- I think this is the main method used by my favourite dancers, not easy if the leader has a vice like grip. If the leader catches on then hopefully he will try to mirror you or complement you (rather than just compliment you on those wiggles!) Of course you don't have to confine this sort of thing to breaks, try it out on other accents within the music, or if he's not doing enough.

Before sabotaging too much though, have some awareness of if the guy is noticing the music too, he may be thinking 8 beats or more ahead, and not appreciate it when his big plans for the break go astray every time.

Greg

[ElaineB]

Originally posted by philsmove
Very few ladies lead a break, so my experience on this is very limited

But when they do it’s really nice


As Divissima and Emma say a wriggle certainly works

But who is responsible for breaking the break


Unless I mistaken ElaineB will answer this

:D

OK Phil, I will launch a few more breaks at you when we next meet! I know you enjoy wondering where I will be when you turn back to face after a spin!

I think the other ladies have summed it up eloquently though. Wiggling, wriggling and learing are all good ways of taking the gents attention off being in control. Another trick I have found is to get so close that the chap will stop for a fleeting second (expectation/terror - not sure which!) and then, woomph........ :rofl: Tramp - read that the correct way please! ;)


Elaine

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by ElaineB
Another trick I have found is to get so close that the chap will stop for a fleeting second (expectation/terror - not sure which!) and then, woomph........ :rofl: Tramp - read that the correct way please! ;) Is there any other way....?!? :yum:

I'll look forward to being woomphed at Camber :flower:

Trampy

[CJ]

I do enjoy when my partner initiates actions for breaks, etc but it is a double-edged sword.

I've had some great dances with Wendy where she has led a break...

I've had some moments where I'd prepared something special for a break to find my best laid plans gone afoot....

I think we have both been aware of both sets of circumstances and are learning to trust eachother...

(In saying that... has been a while since she asked so maybe she has learned something else:what: :tears:)

Is a toughie, and all part of the learning/improving process.
:cheers:

[ElaineB]

Originally posted by TheTramp
Is there any other way....?!? :yum:

I'll look forward to being woomphed at Camber :flower:

Trampy

My pleasure! ;)


Elaine

[Stuart M]

Originally posted by Ceroc Jock
I do enjoy when my partner initiates actions for breaks, etc but it is a double-edged sword.

I've had some great dances with Wendy where she has led a break...

I've had some moments where I'd prepared something special for a break to find my best laid plans gone afoot....


:yeah:

:whistle:

:grin:

[spindr]

Originally posted by Siobhan
You can also just let go of his hand- that works- and do your thang, and then grab'im again.

Uggghh, to me that absolutely ruins the connection and communication through the handhold, if it's done arbitrarily.


There's nothing worse that a man who can't bear being upstaged though, the type that get rather rattled when you do anything out of the norm. and hence they lose their 'control'.

And vice versa, there's nothing like upstaging an upstager :) --- a lot of followers want to come back into hold relatively quickly. If the leader's got a decent repertoire of shimmys, body ripples, lindy hop breakaway moves and even salsa shines -- then the leader can keep dancing with the follower without a handhold for quite a while (perhaps longer than was originally envisaged) :devil:

Having said that a good sabotage can be superb -- only better'd if you can sabotage the sabotage ...

SpinDr.

[Groovy Dancer]

Originally posted by Pammy
Providing she stays in the slot, right? :whistle: :wink:

Oh, and remember to keep your tickets in your pocket :rofl:


For you dearest, I will make an exception:wink: :flower: :hug:

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Groovy Dancer
For you dearest, I will make an exception:wink: :flower: :hug:

No No, I think most would agree, I AM the exception :wink: :rofl:

[Gadget]

Originally posted by spindr
... If the leader's got a decent repertoire of shimmys, body ripples, lindy hop breakaway moves and even salsa shines -- then the leader can keep dancing with the follower without a handhold for quite a while (perhaps longer than was originally envisaged) :devil:
I see a workshop idea here - it's all very well hitting the breaks, but what do you do other than 'pose'? What do you do when there is no physical contact? Lead's especially - ladies wiggle, jiggle and flourish - us men tend to just stand and drool; not the most attractive of poses.

[Bill]

Originally posted by Sheepman
Before sabotaging too much though, have some awareness of if the guy is noticing the music too, he may be thinking 8 beats or more ahead, and not appreciate it when his big plans for the break go astray every time.

Greg

ah..... but the secret is ....not to think..........and 8 beats ahead :sick: I'm usually a beat behind and only catch up because my arm is still moving so it's great when the girl takes over for a while - then I can think of another two moves :blush: :na:

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Gadget
not the most attractive of poses.
Did someone say pose? :yum: