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Peter
23rd-March-2004, 01:57 PM
Fans of Nicky Haslam & Robert Winter (a shy (!) forumite) will want to click here (http://www.ceroc.com.au/tours/) for details of their UK tour plans for March / April / May 04. The current list seems to be:

Sat/Sun 27/28 March - Stompin' in Brighton (classes & cabaret)
Mon 29/3 - The Grand, London Clapham (class & cabaret) - Ceroc London
Tue 30/3 - Ceroc Greenwich (class & cabaret)
Wed 31/3 - Ceroc Windsor (class & cabaret)
Fri 2/4 - Casbah (class & cabaret) - Ceroc London

Sat 3/4 - Ceroc Windsor (workshop)
Sun 4/4 - Ceroc Metro (workshop at St Albans)
Wed 7/4 - Ashton's (class & cabaret) - Ceroc London
Thu 8/4 - Ceroc Kent (class & cabaret at Bromley)

Tue 13/4 - ISH West End (class & cabaret)
Wed 14/4 - Ashton's (class & cabaret) - Ceroc London
Thu 15/4 - Fulham (class & cabaret) - Ceroc London

Sat 17/4 - Hammersmith (class & cabaret) - Ceroc London
Sun 18/4 - Ceroc Surrey (class & cabaret - Godalming)

Sat 24/4 - Ceroc Kent (workshop, class & cabaret)
Sun 25/4 - Ceroc London (workshop - Competition Tips, Style & Techniques)

Tue 27/4 - Christchurch Le Roc (class & cabaret)
Wed 28/4 - Portsmouth Le Roc (class & cabaret)

Sat 1/5 - Ceroc Surrey - workshop
Sun 2/5 - Ceroc UK Champs - London

Jayne
23rd-March-2004, 02:19 PM
Are they CEROC teachers by any chance?????

J :wink:

Gadget
23rd-March-2004, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by Peter
Fans of Nicky Haslam & Robert Winter (a shy (!) forumite) will want to click here (http://www.ceroc.com.au/tours/) for details of their UK tour plans for March / April / May 04.
their UK tour? :devil: :whistle:

Jayne
23rd-March-2004, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by Gadget
their UK tour? :devil: :whistle:
Surely you're not suggesting that the UK extends beyond London & the home counties???? :what:

J :whistle:

ChrisA
23rd-March-2004, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by Jayne
Are they CEROC teachers by any chance?????

They've done Hipsters before, at least twice (Nicky might have been without Rob on one of those). On the last occasion, Clayton & Janine, Nigel and Nina, and Nicky and Rob did a routine together, as well as individual showcases, so it was a real treat.

This might be a terrible heresy, but while their showcases are pretty impressive, Nicky's "why do one spin when three will do" classes - or at least the few I've attended - aren't to my personal taste.

My memory of the routines she taught is of highly choreographed, largely unfreestylable moves with lots of multiple spinning for the girls - which ended up, due to the multiple repeats as the ladies moved round, with a lot of the girls getting extremely dizzy and frustrated.

I'm probably a bit better now, so maybe it was just my crap leading at the time... :tears:

Chris

TheTramp
23rd-March-2004, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Jayne
Surely you're not suggesting that the UK extends beyond London & the home counties???? :what:
Oh. Come on. They go down to Portsmouth. That's outside the Home Counties!!! :devil:

Trampy

Andy McGregor
23rd-March-2004, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by TheTramp
Oh. Come on. They go down to Portsmouth. That's outside the Home Counties!!! :devil:

Trampy

And they're going to Christchurch, in Dorset. That's almost the West Country. And St Albans is at least 5 miles North of Watford:wink:

DavidB
23rd-March-2004, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Andy McGregor
And they're going to Christchurch, in Dorset. That's almost the West Country. And St Albans is at least 5 miles North of Watford I hope someone has warned them about this. Don't they need visas? And immunisations?

Jayne
23rd-March-2004, 03:48 PM
To be fair, they have travelled half way round the world to the UK - surely we're not expecting them to do any more travelling???

J :wink:

TheTramp
23rd-March-2004, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Jayne
To be fair, they have travelled half way round the world to the UK - surely we're not expecting them to do any more travelling???Up to them. But the comment was that it was a UK tour. And that's what's being commented on! :D

Trampy

ChrisA
23rd-March-2004, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by TheTramp
Up to them. But the comment was that it was a UK tour. And that's what's being commented on! :D

Well Scotland may not appear in the itinerary, but neither does Hipsters...

... we could call it quits? :D :D

Daisy
23rd-March-2004, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by DavidB
I hope someone has warned them about this. Don't they need visas? And immunisations?

I understand they may well be going to Southport so they will definately need visas and possibly some thermal underwear!:wink:

Minnie M
23rd-March-2004, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by TheTramp
Up to them. But the comment was that it was a UK tour. And that's what's being commented on! :D

Trampy

:yeah:

Chris
23rd-March-2004, 06:26 PM
Hi - dunno if Martin or someone has covered this already, but in case of interest to the planet-hoppers on the forum (or just to see what they're up to!) thought y'all might like to see this one I just got from Mark. Cheers, Chris D.


Ceroc Australia has just confirmed the 2004 Australian (Open) Ceroc Championships (once again including the Australian Masters) taking place in Sydney on Saturday 6th November 2004.

This year, by popular request of our overseas visitors, we have scheduled the Championships to coincide with the best time of the year for Sydney weather. After the depths of winter (June July August too cold to swim or enjoy Sydney's famous outdoor lifestyle to it's fullest extent) and before mid-summer which can be a trifle too warm.

We'd like to invite you and your dancers to experience all that beautiful Sydney has to offer in its early summer street cafis, beautiful beaches, real Aussie BBQ's, the Opera House, the Harbour Bridge, Bondi Beach (for breakfast, of course) and of course fantastic modern jive dancing along with a full set of social activities surrounding the Championships.

There are Championship categories for all levels of dancer from the new starter through to the best of the best. The Aussie Masters itself which is open only to competitors who have been place first, second or third in a national modern jive championship and which is the only true showcase of freestyle dancing that Australia has to offer at the top flight level. Last year the Masters was taken out by the UK's own Viktor with Debbie Cantoni and Union Jacks were flying high throughout the auditorium. We
hope that even more UK contenders will be fighting to retain the crown in the old country this year.

As well as the full-on serious stuff we've got the regular 'Dance with a Stranger' fun competition at Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced levels as well as a novelty event which changes each year. Indeed something for everyone.

And here's another fabulous offer!! The UK Dance Holidays organisation has spread its wings even further this year. Following on from Ceroc in ... Granada, Ibiza, The Canary Islands and Cuba comes ... Ceroc down under in fabulous Sydney. An all encompassing holiday including all the above, the foremost Championships in Australia, parties galore, extended Sydney, coupled with scuba and snorkelling opportunities on the Great Barrier Reef, this is one huge opportunity for the FULL MONTY AUSTRALIAN EXPERIENCE!! Give them a call direct at Carefree Holidays 01293 553232 or via 0870 286 6000 and grab a brochure. Join in with the Aussie locals when they team
up with Dance Holidays Downunder.

We have attached a colourful flyer and if you are willing to display this on the desks of your venues we would obviously be greatly appreciative. We hope this will indicate to your dancers that you are well known worldwide and have knowledge of events in the wider modern jive world! Sometimes, not a bad thing!! We have found that printing the document on the 'best' printer setting on high quality paper and then laminating locally will give the flyer a long life and give a quality product suitable for your front of house display.

If you would like to receive our regular emailed newsletter please drop us a note with your details.

Kind regards,

Mark Harding
Director, Ceroc Australia

Chris
23rd-March-2004, 06:28 PM
(poster)

Graham W
23rd-March-2004, 08:19 PM
yep, its ceroc for breakfast , lunch & dinner! thu they did do Kingswood LeRoc (notice the L) last time & I even snatched a wee dance with Nikki.. amazing - I am fans of their style, - why not go for it with the big moves..?Any comments on the floor from others about their approach?

G

Divissima
23rd-March-2004, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by ChrisA:
My memory of the routines she taught is of highly choreographed, largely unfreestylable moves with lots of multiple spinning for the girls - which ended up, due to the multiple repeats as the ladies moved round, with a lot of the girls getting extremely dizzy and frustrated.I think I know the workshop you are referring to, Chris (held the same day as the Anzac Ball - with the showcases you mention?). I have to say, TwK and I do freestyle some of those moves (when there's enough room). And as for multiple and/or assisted spins - I just loooooove them - and we don't often get taught that kind of thing over here (Amir is the exception). I'm hoping to bag a dance with Robert W this time - me every other follower!!

I have to say, though, that doing the workshop as a fixed couple, rather than rotating, meant we really consolidated the moves (and I could beg single spins instead of doubles when I got all squiffy from spinning) :yum: But there's no reason ladies can't ask the men, as they rotate, to do singles instead of doubles, if they are dizzy.

Daisy
23rd-March-2004, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by Graham W
yep, its ceroc for breakfast , lunch & dinner! thu they did do Kingswood LeRoc (notice the L) last time & I even snatched a wee dance with Nikki.. amazing - I am fans of their style, - why not go for it with the big moves..?Any comments on the floor from others about their approach?

G

Yep....you gotta go with the big moves cos they don't go much for musicality.:sick: We know this from experience!!:whistle:

On a positive note, Australia was a fantastic place to visit and we had a wonderful time. Mark and Co were extremely hospitable and took us Poms out on his yaught round Sydney Harbour the day after the comp.....fantastic.

Cairns and the Barrier Reef was amazing and an experience not to miss. if you have the time and the money then a trip 'down under' is completely recommended.

:cheers: and nice cold beer too.:clap:

Divissima
23rd-March-2004, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by Daisy:
a trip 'down under' is completely recommended.

and nice cold beer too.Yeah, but you've got to watch your meat!! :rofl: :rofl: :wink:

Gary
23rd-March-2004, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by ChrisA

My memory of the routines she taught is of highly choreographed, largely unfreestylable moves with lots of multiple spinning for the girls - which ended up, due to the multiple repeats as the ladies moved round, with a lot of the girls getting extremely dizzy and frustrated.


I do Nicky's classes pretty often. I find almost none of her moves are unfreestylable. Some of the bigger moves obviously you'd only attempt with a regular partner, and might require a signal (as opposed to a lead), which I'm not so keen on.

If girls are getting dizzy, they can always say "please just lead singles".

Try doing one of Camille's classes, with lots of multiple spins for the guys :sick:

I do find that generally guys teach stuff that's easier to work into freestyle than girls (or maybe that's just a coincidence with the small group of guys/girls I've been taught by).

Gary
23rd-March-2004, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by Daisy
Yep....you gotta go with the big moves cos they don't go much for musicality.:sick: We know this from experience!!:whistle:


I know that Robert and Nicky put a big emphasis on musicality (in their dancing and their teaching). I guess it's a personal decision about whether or not they do a good job of it -- I think they do, you seem to think they don't.

Daisy
24th-March-2004, 12:23 AM
Originally posted by Divissima
Yeah, but you've got to watch your meat!! :rofl: :rofl: :wink:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Is that a kookaburra I hear?:cheers:



I was talking generally about the musicality, not specifically about Robert & Nikki.

Tiggerbabe
24th-March-2004, 01:23 AM
Originally posted by ChrisA
Well Scotland may not appear in the itinerary
Unfortunately not this time, however last time they were here they taught two days of fab workshops. The moves taught are often done in freestyle and I don't remember getting dizzy with too many spins.

We did do a choreographed routine, which was a lot of fun and performed it at the Glasgow party on the Saturday night (thanks Lisa, great partner:wink: )

Chris
24th-March-2004, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by Gary
If girls are getting dizzy, they can always say "please just lead singles".
The couple of classes/workshops of Robert and Nicky's I've been to have been excellent although I did wonder if in one them (advanced) Nicky maybe overestimated what could be taken for granted. There are times when there are few common denominators as to techniques that have been mastered, including multiple spins, double speed spins, assisted spins, none of which can be learnt properly in a single session IMO*. When some girls get dizzy, there are other girls that don't - in Nicky's (graded) classes at home she probably doesn't have this problem.

I'd agree that there's a lot of moves in the routines of hers I've seen that we would call 'choreographed' simply cos we're not big on formal set signals here. Many of those moves can be adapted though so they can be led. For lots of moves without 'signals', do try her Close Moves vid - this is one of my favourite tapes for sheer teaching precision and technical mastery. I can enjoy watching it repeatedly just for style ideas, but nearly all the moves you can lead with unknown partners.

*Added to which, a simple turn is actually led differently in the UK (hand over the centre of the head) to the way taught by many Australasian outfits (describe a halo over the head).

Gary
24th-March-2004, 01:36 AM
Originally posted by Chris
... When some girls get dizzy, there are other girls that don't - in Nicky's (graded) classes at home she probably doesn't have this problem.


Um, girls over here get dizzy too (the "just lead single turns" suggestion is from experience).



*Added to which, a simple turn is actually led differently in the UK (hand over the centre of the head) to the way taught by many Australasian outfits (describe a halo over the head).

I don't get it. That seems more like a signal than a lead to me. If you're just holding your hand in the centre above the girl's head, how do you communicate how fast to turn, or even what direction to turn? Guess I'm missing something basic...

Nicky
24th-March-2004, 01:42 AM
Hi all in sunny Scotland!

We really wanted it to be a "UK" Tour and badgered Franck severely to book us....but sadly we will not be visiting North of the border this time - lots of things already happening around the same time I believe!

Hope to catch up with some of you at one or two of our classes and have a dance...we'll be at Stompin' this weekend (yes, I know - along way from Scotland!).......

Otherwise why not come Downunder and visit us in Sydney - our Champs weekend is scheduled for 10th - 14th June (a long weekend of Champs events, workshops, dance parties and lunches.....) - it's the highest standard of dancing you'll see in Australia! Or we have a full DANCEMANIA weekend scheduled for 27-29th August - a residential weekend with lots of dance workshops in different styles (including Ceroc, Salsa, West Coast Swing, Cha-Cha, Hip-Hop Funk and Tap) a Cocktail Party on the Saturday night and other (non-dance) activities like horseriding and canoeing.....

Look forward to seeing you soon.:waycool: I hear we need to bring our winter woollies with us........

Nicky

Chris
24th-March-2004, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by Gary
Um, girls over here get dizzy too (the "just lead single turns" suggestion is from experience).

Yeah good point actually :cool:

I don't get it. That seems more like a signal than a lead to me. If you're just holding your hand in the centre above the girl's head, how do you communicate how fast to turn, or even what direction to turn? Guess I'm missing something basic...
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
You have to visit to see the funny side - my Kiwi friend went quietly mental at the "just raise your hand over the centre of the girl's head and she magically turns!!!" bit (in nearly every beginners class).

Basically it simplifies the learning - girls are conditioned to respond with a hand at that position - saves guys having to learn to describe a halo accurately so less risk of them pulling the girl off balance methinks.

Nicky
24th-March-2004, 01:51 AM
Hi all

Just wanted to share some pics with you from our Gala Show we had on the weekend - over 200 performers - a fantastic night had by all I think! All the performers did a great job and the atmosphere was electric! We're bringing some of the routines over with us...

check out www.womeningolf.com.au/gala04

Nicky
www.ceroc.com.au

TheTramp
24th-March-2004, 02:10 AM
Originally posted by Nicky
Hope to catch up with some of you at one or two of our classes and have a dance...we'll be at Stompin' this weekend (yes, I know - along way from Scotland!).......
But not quite far enough. You're going to have to dance with me there I'm afraid!! :wink:

Trampy

ChrisA
24th-March-2004, 02:29 AM
Originally posted by Divissima
I think I know the workshop you are referring to, Chris (held the same day as the Anzac Ball - with the showcases you mention?).Yep, that was the day IIRC. The particular class I'm thinking of was during the evening prior to the freestyle - I think.
I have to say, TwK and I do freestyle some of those moves (when there's enough room).Sure. But you two are much, much better than the average standard of the people in that particular class, you've danced together a tremendous amount, and you've practised for a good number of comps together. And, if you were additionally
doing the workshop as a fixed couple, rather than rotating, then it's not surprising that you
really consolidated the moves I'll probably try and drag Jayne to one of their classes and we'll do it non-rotating too :devil:
And as for multiple and/or assisted spins - I just loooooove them - and we don't often get taught that kind of thing over hereDon't get me wrong - I have nothing against multiple and assisted spins; I like them too. The problems in that class as I recall from being in the thick of the rotating couples were waist level leads into spins followed by waist-level led turns across behind the guy - a good connection being vital for this, as was for the girls to be able to turn on the spot. Those are a great thing to teach and to learn - but one mastered would have been better than the three repeats that were struggled through by a great many IIRC.

As I say, I'm probably better now so I'd hope to be able to lead that sort of thing more successfully.
But there's no reason ladies can't ask the men, as they rotate, to do singles instead of doubles, if they are dizzy. Agreed. If only more of the girls (and the guys, if they're aware of their lady being dizzy) had had more presence of mind to think of it. I know it sounds an obvious thing to do - but it was a very fast-paced class, and people were just trying their hardest.

The other thing is that I reckon teaching from the stage, with lines instead of a big circle, is much better if the class is packed - there were so many on that occasion that there were problems with space for the moves which made things even more difficult.

I'm not dissing Nicky and Rob - as I said, I think their showcases are terrific. It's just that the classes I've been to could have IMHO been tailored a bit better for the people in them. They needed to be challenging, but given that there was little room since they were very busy, and very fast-paced, maybe not quite so challenging.

Chris

Robert Winter
24th-March-2004, 02:47 AM
Originally posted by ChrisA
They needed to be challenging, but given that there was little room since they were very busy, and very fast-paced, maybe not quite so challenging.

Thanks for the feedback. Basically keep the feedback coming. If you like it we will do it more, and if you don't then we will change what we are teaching.

However it is sometimes very difficult to grade a class or workshop. Now that we have done a couple of tours we are getting to know the locals, what they like and where they are at with their dancing. But we still (especially during the first tour which is the one you are referring to) rely very heavily on the local promoter to fill us in on the do's and don't of their venue.

So when they say teach Advanced Jive and nothing more then we just get up there and teach Advanced Jive. And in some classes we were asked to teach Advanced Jive and found within the first couple of blank stares that the majority of dancers in the room were Beginner/Intermediates. And in these classes it then becomes difficult as there are a handful of Advanced dancers who have come specifically to be challenged while others either become frustrated or just sit it out.

It is a real shame when this happens but I think that it comes back to the promoters making sure they ask us to teach to the level of the classes they have gathered rather than just saying, "do some Advanced new Aussie stuff, that should impress the class". And to the dancers to make sure that they attend a class or workshop suitable to their level. I know that I like to think I am a good dancer (as I am sure a lot of people do) and consequently should be going to Advanced level stuff, but it is no good attending lessons beyond one's level. It is better to get the basics right then the Advanced stuff will have a lot more meaning.

ChrisA
24th-March-2004, 03:03 AM
Originally posted by Gary
I don't get it. That seems more like a signal than a lead to me. If you're just holding your hand in the centre above the girl's head, how do you communicate how fast to turn, or even what direction to turn? Guess I'm missing something basic...
They aren't the same thing if I'm understanding this right.

If the girl has some turning momentum already, having been given a prior lead, there's no problem with the hand over the centre of the girl's head. The turn will be step-step-step, often travelling, rather than a stationary spin, and there can be one, two or even more turns. But the lead isn't really from the guy's high hand - the lead happened before, and now it's the girl that's doing the turning with no more than a fingertip indication (a signal if you like) that continued turning is wanted.

The (multiple) assisted spin, which I've hardly seen taught here except by Amir is not the same, and does allow for variation in turn rate and direction if the connection is good. For this the halo is vital. Even people that teach it slowly without the halo (making the move choreographed rather than led) then proceed to dance it with the halo of you watch them closely.

Any clearer?

Chris

ChrisA
24th-March-2004, 03:11 AM
Originally posted by Robert Winter
So when they say teach Advanced Jive and nothing more then we just get up their and teach Advanced Jive. And in some classes we were asked to teach Advanced Jive and found within the first couple of blank stares that the majority of dancers in the room were Beginner/Intermediates. And in these classes it then becomes difficult as there are a handful of Advanced dancers who have come specifically to be challenged while others either become frustrated or just sit it out.
This must drive you guys crazy...

Trouble is, there are plenty of so-called Advanced classes in the UK which simply aren't, so expectations are very different here.

Anyway, don't worry too much about me moaning at you about it being difficult....

... my plan is to continue improving as fast as I can, so that next time I come to one of your classes I end up moaning at you about it being too easy :devil:

:cheers:

Chris

Robert Winter
24th-March-2004, 03:44 AM
Originally posted by ChrisA
Anyway, don't worry too much about me moaning at you about it being difficult....

... my plan is to continue improving as fast as I can, so that next time I come to one of your classes I end up moaning at you about it being too easy :devil:
That's cool. And I am sure you will find it easy soon. Gary, who many of you would know from the Forum, used to have his issues as a dancer. But after much hard work (he would get my vote for most improved dancer of the year) is now quite good. He still has a way to go before he is a Clayton (probably not the best example as he is a big freak) but he has proved that by going to challenging classes and really applying himself one can get to an advanced level in a short period of time.

Gary
24th-March-2004, 04:21 AM
Originally posted by Robert Winter
Gary, who many of you would know from the Forum, used to have his issues as a dancer. But after much hard work (he would get my vote for most improved dancer of the year) is now quite good. He still has a way to go before he is a Clayton (probably not the best example as he is a big freak) but he has proved that by going to challenging classes and really applying himself one can get to an advanced level in a short period of time.

:blush: :flower:

I still have issues (chiefly, how can I fit in more dancing around annoying things like work and sleep).

I've seen advanced dancers (Kyle Rudd, Jordan Frisbee, Clinton, Clayton, Viktor). "A way to go" is an understatement.

Fortunately I'm not really keeping score, just having fun.

Minnie M
24th-March-2004, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by Gary
.........I've seen advanced dancers (Kyle Rudd, Jordan Frisbee, .

:innocent: Didn't know Kyle & Jordan did modern jive :wink:

Jayne
24th-March-2004, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by ChrisA
I'll probably try and drag Jayne to one of their classes and we'll do it non-rotating too :devil:
Where's the :splutter: emoticon?

J :wink:

ChrisA
24th-March-2004, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by Jayne
Where's the :splutter: emoticon?

There's no pleasing some people... you have moaned just as much if I'd just assumed you wanted to go :rolleyes: :devil:

ChrisA
24th-March-2004, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by ChrisA
The (multiple) assisted spin, which I've hardly seen taught here except by AmirIn fairness, David and Lily do teach the halo as well.

Ok? :devil: :wink:

Andy McGregor
24th-March-2004, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by ChrisA
... my plan is to continue improving as fast as I can, so that next time I come to one of your classes I end up moaning at you about it being too easy :devil:

:cheers:

Chris

Alternatively, you could do what some of our local 'Hotshots' do. Sit out the lesson looking smug as if the lesson was too easy for them to even take part in:devil:

Chris and I have both been making the mistake of joining in with every lesson and there's bound to be something we don't get some time or other to make us feel there's still more to learn. If we'd just sat out we'd never have known we have limits:wink:

Doing the challenging lessons and not gettin it all teaches us humility, not doing them because we think we're too good teaches us something else:devil:

ChrisA
24th-March-2004, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Doing the challenging lessons and not gettin it all teaches us humility
Well, it teaches me humility... :innocent: :devil:

Andy McGregor
24th-March-2004, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by ChrisA
Well, it teaches me humility... :innocent: :devil:

We are talking relative humility here. And I would like to, humbly propose that, our comparator is the 'always sitting out the lesson Hotshot dancer'.

TheTramp
24th-March-2004, 12:15 PM
But now you're making the assumption that anyone sitting out the lesson is doing so, because they think that they have nothing further to learn.

There may be a whole host of other reasons why they are sitting out the lesson.

Why are you worried about other people? If you want to do the lesson, then fine. Go ahead. Enjoy yourself. And let other people do what suits them. It's non of your business anyhow :flower:

Trampy

ChrisA
24th-March-2004, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by Andy McGregor
We are talking relative humility here. And I would like to, humbly propose that, our comparator is the 'always sitting out the lesson Hotshot dancer'.

I can't agree with this. (a) because there is no longer anyone on my hotshot list and (b) because there might be other reasons to sit out a lesson. Just sitting out the lesson is far too facile a test for hotshotness.

Maybe there should be a false humility category too, though... something along the lines of...

"... I know I'm good enough to sit out the lesson if I wanted to, and I'll just prove it by doing several spins instead of the one that's being taught..."

Can't think of anyone this might apply to, of course... :devil: :innocent:

Andy McGregor
24th-March-2004, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by The Trampster
But now you're making the assumption that anyone sitting out the lesson is doing so, because they think that they have nothing further to learn.

There may be a whole host of other reasons why they are sitting out the lesson.

Why are you worried about other people? If you want to do the lesson, then fine. Go ahead. Enjoy yourself. And let other people do what suits them. It's non of your business anyhow

Trampy

Touched a nerve?:devil:



Originally posted by ChrisA
Maybe there should be a false humility category too, though... something along the lines of...

"... I know I'm good enough to sit out the lesson if I wanted to, and I'll just prove it by doing several spins instead of the one that's being taught..."

Can't think of anyone this might apply to, of course... :devil: :innocent:

Can't be me, I only do spins in the lesson in the bits where they're not being taught:wink:

TheTramp
24th-March-2004, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Touched a nerve?:devil:Nope.

I don't do lessons, mostly because I find the repetative movement makes my knee hurt. I'm sure that other people have their own reasons.

Still don't understand what it's got to do with you anyhow. The world would probably be a much nicer place, if people worried more about what they were doing, and less about what other people were doing (yes, I do realise that this applies to me too) :D

Trampy

ChrisA
24th-March-2004, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Touched a nerve?:devil:

By the same token, why do you bang on about hotshots so much? There really are very few now. It's the "I'm too good to dance with you" thing that makes you a hotshot, not whether or not you join in the lesson.


Can't be me, I only do spins in the lesson in the bits where they're not being taught:wink:
Not being a hotshot doesn't mean one doesn't come across as a right eejit sometimes though :devil:

Pammy
24th-March-2004, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by ChrisA
Not being a hotshot doesn't mean one doesn't come across as a right eejit sometimes though :devil:

Chris, you need to start shopping with Kleeneze :wink:

ChrisA
24th-March-2004, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by Pammy
Chris, you need to start shopping with Kleeneze :wink: ???????? :confused:

Andy McGregor
24th-March-2004, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by ChrisA
By the same token, why do you bang on about hotshots so much?


I believe that there is a place for good dancers in the lesson. That is to provide good partners for the people who are still getting to grips with the basics of MJ. To attend the class in time to join in with the lesson and not do the lesson is selfishly failing to recognise this - unless you have a medical reason like the Trampster:flowers:

TheTramp
24th-March-2004, 01:55 PM
But that's still your belief.

And there's probably a name for people who try to force their beliefs on other people. And it's probably not nice.

Trampy

ChrisA
24th-March-2004, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I believe that there is a place for good dancers in the lesson. That is to provide good partners for the people who are still getting to grips with the basics of MJ.
Obviously I agree with this.

To attend the class in time to join in with the lesson and not do the lesson is selfishly failing to recognise this - unless you have a medical reason like the Trampster:flowers: This is wayyyyyyyyy too much of a sweeping generalisation IMO. If you actually look at the people that sit out the lessons, very few of them are hotshots.

- some of them aren't very good anyway

- some of them are very good, but already give a lot back to MJ by teaching, demoing or taxiing

- some of them have come to meet their friends, and why shouldn't they?

- some of them (mostly ladies) are fed up with being yanked about and perved at by some of the creepier specimens that are in the lesson, so have started to avoid or not rotate

To lump everyone into the same category is unreasonable, I think.

Chris

Stuart M
24th-March-2004, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by Andy McGregor
To attend the class in time to join in with the lesson and not do the lesson is selfishly failing to recognise this - unless you have a medical reason like the Trampster:flowers:

Originally posted by ChrisA
This is wayyyyyyyyy too much of a sweeping generalisation IMO. If you actually look at the people that sit out the lessons, very few of them are hotshots.

- some of them aren't very good anyway

- some of them are very good, but already give a lot back to MJ by teaching, demoing or taxiing

- some of them have come to meet their friends, and why shouldn't they?

- some of them (mostly ladies) are fed up with being yanked about and perved at by some of the creepier specimens that are in the lesson, so have started to avoid or not rotate

To lump everyone into the same category is unreasonable, I think.

Chris
:yeah: Wild generalisation, AMcG. Generally I have no problem with people sitting out, unless there's a big gender imbalance. My own habit is to turn up towards the end of a beginner's lesson, in order to take note of the moves taught for dancing with beginners to. By not being present during the beginner's lesson, am I being as selfish as a person who sits at the sides during it? Am I, or they, being selfish at all? I think not...

Katie
24th-March-2004, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by ChrisA
Obviously I agree with this.
This is wayyyyyyyyy too much of a sweeping generalisation IMO.

- some of them have come to meet their friends, and why shouldn't they?

- some of them (mostly ladies) are fed up with being yanked about and perved at by some of the creepier specimens that are in the lesson, so have started to avoid or not rotate

Chris

I agree, it is a generalisation.

I rarely do a lesson for exactly the two reasons above, moreso for catching up with friends, particularly girlfriends who i may not get a chance to talk to because of dancing with men all night...unless of course i dance as a man :D

Oh, another valid reason for not doing the lesson is because it is cheaper! Franco has now introduced a student rate at Hipsters, which is even better!! That makes it £2 on wednesday! :cheers:

Kate

Gadget
24th-March-2004, 02:45 PM
:yeah:

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I believe that there is a place for good dancers in the lesson. That is to provide good partners for the people who are still getting to grips with the basics of MJ. To attend the class in time to join in with the lesson and not do the lesson is selfishly failing to recognise this - unless you have a medical reason like the Trampster:flower:
I agree with the first statement, but to assume that those who aregood dancers and chose not to join in are selfish is a bit of a jump.
You could say that the decision of good dancers to join in is completley selfish:
- They gain the prestige and notoriety of being helpfull and joining in.
- They get the chance to learn how to lead so many different ladies with different styles.
- They can practice the basic moves without any loss of reputation.
- They can try out new footwork, practice spins, add bits of style etc. and develop it slowly with precision.
On the down side:
- They make the classes too big and force too many 'real' novices to queue
- They can try to do things their way rather than what is taught from the stage
- They can give advice that is inappropriate for their (current) partner.
- They could expect every partner to be able to follow them (after all, it's only 'basic' moves.)

isn't it attitude that makes a "hotshot" rather than actions? (/inactions)

JamesGeary
24th-March-2004, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by ChrisA

...while their showcases are pretty impressive, Nicky's "why do one spin when three will do" classes ...lot of the girls getting extremely dizzy and frustrated.


No pain, no gain.
I'm off to go chew on a power bar.

ChrisA
24th-March-2004, 03:21 PM
Ok, I've been told offline in no uncertain terms that my original comment on Nicky's classes came across as harsh and damning :tears:

So I'd like to apologise for this and make it clear that I didn't mean it to be either of these.

Chris

Jayne
24th-March-2004, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by ChrisA
- some of them (mostly ladies) are fed up with being yanked about and perved at by some of the creepier specimens that are in the lesson, so have started to avoid or not rotate

:yeah:

J :tears:

Chris
24th-March-2004, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by JamesGeary
I'm off to go chew on a power bar.
Keep up the exercise lol.
btw congrats on your salsa competition win since no-one here else congratulated you.

Gary
24th-March-2004, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by Minnie M
:innocent: Didn't know Kyle & Jordan did modern jive :wink:

So far as I know they don't.

On the other hand their showcases wouldn't look too out of place at a modern jive comp, and would (I hope) do very well. I love how they have both done some fantastic showcases that don't include any dips or aerials.

Gary
24th-March-2004, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by Gadget

- They make the classes too big and force too many 'real' novices to queue
- They can try to do things their way rather than what is taught from the stage
- They can give advice that is inappropriate for their (current) partner.
- They could expect every partner to be able to follow them (after all, it's only 'basic' moves.)


I'll usually join the beginner class if there are girls rotating, but might sit out if there are guys rotating.

I'll do variations of the move being taught sometimes if I'm with a girl who I know won't get flustered by it (or correct me for doing it wrong :blush: ).

I've given up on giving advice unless I'm asked or the follow is leading herself into dips.

I do expect that every partner can follow me, if I lead well enough.

I love doing the beginner class, it's just that I'm often stuck at work too late to get to it :angry:

Lory
8th-April-2004, 06:19 PM
I went to Ashtons last night, where Nicky and Robert taught the class and after, put on a cabaret for us and superb it was!:worthy:

I was lucky enough to have a lovely dance with Robert later and what a nice guy he is!:flower: Fabulous dancer and not even the teeniest hint of hotshotedness (ooh did I just invent a knew word?):rofl:

let me tell you ladies, he might look like a sweet young angel but theres definitely a cheeky little glint in those eyes, I can tell you! :wink: