Tips sought - dancing in time

[Rougeforever]

Morning all.

So, I'm now in the process of being bitten by the Ceroc bug.

I've been 8 times, and this week will mark my first week dancing twice a week.

I'm keen to improve on my rather inelegant stomping around the dance floor.

Does anyone have any handy hints on learning to dance the steps in time to music ? The beat often eludes me.

I'm at the point now where I'm relaxing a bit in dancing, and therefore realising that I'm missing the beat of the song :(

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
I've been 8 times, and this week will mark my first week dancing twice a week.

Hurrah !!! Great to see that the early difficulties haven't put you off :hug:


Does anyone have any handy hints on learning to dance the steps in time to music ? The beat often eludes me.

I'm at the point now where I'm relaxing a bit in dancing, and therefore realising that I'm missing the beat of the song :( Well, firstly, realising that you're off the beat is more than half the battle.

In my experience with beginners, the most common reasons for ladies being off the beat are:

- the guy being off the beat. Beginner guys have tons more work to do in the early stages than beginner girls, since they have to remember the moves, choose which one to dance next, know how to lead them. So the rhythm tends to suffer in the early stages while they're still struggling to execute the moves. And if the guy is leading off the beat, it will be virtually impossible for the girl to be on it.

- rushing things. Almost always, the girls have more time to execute a move than they think they have, and many have a tendency to take a lead as a cue to jump into the move too quickly.

- not putting their weight on the foot you step back on, and so darting forward again too quickly. The step back at the beginning and end of moves should take a whole count, and shouldn't be missed out, else you'll get ahead of yourself again.


Aim to take an actual step on each count of the move, and arrive on that step, with weight on the foot you've stepped with, on the beat. This means that you'll have to start the step before the actual beat in order to arrive on it, but if you can walk in time to music, you will be able to learn how to do this in time.

Practise walking to music of different speeds, particularly music that's slower than your normal walking pace. This will give you practice at carrying your weight smoothly from one step to the next, and arriving on each foot at the same time as the beat does.

Practise spinning to music. One way to do this is as follows:

Step back left foot.
Step forward left foot.
Spin one turn to the left on the left foot, finishing feet together.
Repeat.

To the right it's:

Step back right foot.
Step forward right foot.
Spin one turn to the right on the right foot, finishing feet together.
Repeat.

The step back, the step forward, and the spin should take one count each. Don't rush. Keep the foot you're not spinning on as close to the floor as possible, use it as a brake, and transfer your weight on to it at the end of the spin. Slowish music is easier and gives you more control.

Hope this helps. Keep posting !! :flower:

Chris

[Franck]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
Does anyone have any handy hints on learning to dance the steps in time to music ? The beat often eludes me.

I'm at the point now where I'm relaxing a bit in dancing, and therefore realising that I'm missing the beat of the song :( Dancing to the beat, is one of the hardest thing to 'learn'
The good thing is that you have noticed something was wrong which means that you, at least, get the beat.
The first thing to do is identify the (possibly several) reasons why you might be off beat.

1- is the song you're dancing to a bit too challenging? There are many modern (esp. R&B) or Latin songs where the beat is harder to find / keep. Is the music too fast / too slow... find your sweet spot and practise...

2- Do you find you struggle more with some men than with others? As you're meant to follow, you might not have a choice, and if your partner is dancing off beat, you might become frustrated. Pick a good man, and practise with them, asking for feedback.

3- If you've eliminated both of the above, then, as a follower, the problem might come from the wrong tension / elasticity in your arms, which means that your body is not (properly) connected to your arm. Typically, there might be a delay between your partner leading you in a direction (ie pulling / pushing your hand) and your body starting to travel.
You want to establish a more constant connection to diminish the delay (make sure you don't get too stiff though ).
You will also need to take full responsibility for your movement, make sure you keep your weight on the ball of your feet, and move your feet more, taking smaller steps - the larger the steps, the more time you need to get back, which can be a problem in fast songs...

The above is all general advice as I haven't (yet) had the pleasure of a dance... The best thing to do is to ask your teacher for some specific feedback or come up to the next party in Scotland :wink:

[DavidB]

Chris & Franck have already explained some of the causes for dancing off-time. All I can add is an explanation of what exactly off-time and on-time mean.

(This might be way too technical - apologies in advance.)

When most people count music, they would count '1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8'. They count every beat of the music.

In Modern Jive teachers and dancers count the movements, not the beats. Each movement takes 2 beats.

eg A first move (step back on 1, step in on 2, twist the lady out on 3, twist her back on 4, rutn the lady on 5, step back on 6,return her on 7, step back on 8) actually takes 16 counts of music.

So if a movement takes 2 beats, you have to choose which beat you start (or finish) on. One of the beats is correct (on-time) and the other is wrong (off-time).

It is easier to think about the beat you finish a movement on - ie if you step back, then the beat you have finished your step back on. The correct musical beats to finish movements on in Modern Jive are the odd beats (ie the 1, 3, 5 and 7)


So how do you know which are the odd beats and which are the even beats? In most modern music, the beat is usually played on the drums. The odd beats are usually on the bass drum, which gives it a deeper and longer sound. The even beats are usually played on a snare, or cymbal, which gives it a higher pitched and sharper sound.

You can also count the music from the beginning of a verse or chorus. The music we dance to is always phrased with 4 or 6 sets of 8 counts per verse/chorus. There is usually some emphasis throughout the music (the percussion, the instruments and the vocals) when a new verse and particularly a chorus starts. If I think I'm dancing off-time, then this is the way I check.


David

[Rougeforever]

Thanks for these tips ! :clap:

Real practical stuff I can start doing :)

(I'm already doing the standing one one leg thing that was recommended in another thread !)

I'll let you know how I get on.

:D

[spindr]

Or just cheat like the rest of us!

Listen to as much danceable music as you can -- and maybe count / clap along (unless you're driving :) ) -- it's so much easier to pick up the beat or timing if you've listened to the track before (let alone hit a break).

SpinDr.

[Rougeforever]

Originally posted by spindr

Listen to as much danceable music as you can -- and maybe count / clap along (unless you're driving :) )

I've been doing that a bit. I can clap in time, and if Ceroc was all in the clapping I'd be entering competitions by now !

Sadly at my venue they insist you *dance* too :tears:

There are loads of songs I *only* associate with Ceroc now, though. :grin:

[Gadget]

What I used to do was try, during a class, to predict where the teacher would come in on the "5..6..7..8" when a move was done to music.
{Lorna was/is a music teacher, so I guess this helped a bit}

but the general "listen to the music" advice is what I would follow.

The other thing mentioned was turning on one beat - so many beginner ladies turn too fast and either feel aquard as there is a 'half beat' of doing nothing, or throw the man off his beat: Try and turn in 90 degree segments to start with, then a full 180, then a slow 180 (taking two beats)

[Emma]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
(I'm already doing the standing one one leg thing that was recommended in another thread !) Bear in mind you *can* put your leg down sometimes ...makes walking so much easier!! :wink: :grin:

Anyway, I look forward to mistaking you for a stork next time I see you ...welcome to the cult :waycool: :hug:

[Rougeforever]

Originally posted by Emma
:...welcome to the cult :waycool: :hug:

Yeah, this is *all* your fault Miss Emma. Don't think I've forgotten that. I'm sure there'll be punishment.:devil:

[jivecat]

[i]Originally posted by Rougeforever. I've been 8 times, and this week will mark my first week dancing twice a week.




Sounds like a slippery slope to me. Where will it all end?

[jiveoholic]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
Does anyone have any handy hints on learning to dance the steps in time to music ? The beat often eludes me.
[/B]
I'm sure I am going to get into trouble here...but here goes anyway - its the truth whether some want to admit it or not....

I and others have found that there are some 'dimensionally challenged' ladies who act like human metronomes, ie it is impossible to not dance to the rhythm without dislocating your arms. Of course one could always let go!

I am serious! Loosing the rhythm is often simply because the move is being performed in a stumbly sort of way, with uneven timing between the steps because it has been learned wrongly or is not performed yet to much confidence. Dancing with a human gyroscope forces you to keep the beat. I'm sure it works for both sexes.

[Rougeforever]

Originally posted by jivecat
Sounds like a slippery slope to me. Where will it all end?

Yes. You're right.

Danced for the second time last night, and am signed up for a Cerocshop on Sunday.

I'm rather hoping it will end with me being able to dance competently ;)

Ooh - a Midlands person - where do you normally dance ?:

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
and am signed up for a Cerocshop on Sunday.

I'm rather hoping it will end with me being able to dance competently ;)

This is a really good plan. Cerocshops are absolutely great for recent beginners. You'll be exhausted at the end, but the intensity is brilliant for imprinting the learning.

I went to three Ceroc classes and no freestyle in the first year and a half of my MJ lifetime.

The first was a normal one, and I was so hopeless that I didn't go back. The second one was a Cerocshop (I was dragged to it) about six months later - I enjoyed it but still couldn't freestyle.

Then the 3rd one was another Cerocshop about six months after the first one. During this one, it clicked, and I started going to weekly classes. Then the obsession started to develop - but how much time did I waste in discouragement??? :tears:

I so know how bad it can feel in the early days... now you know why I try and get people not to give up in those first few weeks.

But the workshop should be great. Make sure you take your bloke along too, though...

Chris

[DavidY]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
Yes. You're right.

Danced for the second time last night, and am signed up for a Cerocshop on Sunday. If you're really keen :wink: you could try the freestyle at Rugby tomorrow night... (probably not too far from Solihull.)

[Rougeforever]

Originally posted by DavidY
If you're really keen :wink: you could try the freestyle at Rugby tomorrow night... (probably not too far from Solihull.)

Not done a freestyle yet. I still cling to the safety of the beginners class and review session :)

Won't be long 'till I start though - and you're right - Rugby isn't far.

That's one of the great things about living in the Midlands (and near the M42, M5 and M6 - nothing is too far :) (Even Scotland !):wink:

[DavidY]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
Not done a freestyle yet. I still cling to the safety of the beginners class and review session :) Rugby is a new venue, so I'm not certain what this particular one will be like, but generally weekend freestyles often get some of the better dancers from further afield than the average class night and are a lot of fun. I believe Rugby will still have "beginners" & "fun" classes tomorrow (but probably no review session or taxi dancers).

Won't be long 'till I start though - and you're right - Rugby isn't far.

That's one of the great things about living in the Midlands (and near the M42, M5 and M6 - nothing is too far :) (Even Scotland !):wink: Absolutely! I've driven to Scotland to dance a couple of times last year and fully intend to do so again this year.:cheers:

[Tiggerbabe]

Originally posted by DavidY
Absolutely! I've driven to Scotland to dance a couple of times last year and fully intend to do so again this year.:cheers:
Hurrah!!!!! Beach Ballroom - May 22/23 :wink:

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
Not done a freestyle yet. I still cling to the safety of the beginners class and review session :)
Well it is time to start hassling the taxi dancers (and anyone else who looks like they know what they're doing) during the freestyle.

No arguments please !! :innocent: :grin:

[Rougeforever]

Originally posted by ChrisA
Well it is time to start hassling the taxi dancers (and anyone else who looks like they know what they're doing) during the freestyle.

No arguments please !! :innocent: :grin:
Heh, if you've read my journal you'll know that I already hassle taxi-dancers :wink:
I know I have to start asking more men to dance - but at the moment I've only been asking my fellow beginners. I'll get onto it.
Honestly I will. It's just that some of them are just so *good* !

I'm usually open-mouthed with awe!

[joanna]

Oroginally posted by Rougeforever
I know I have to start asking more men to dance - but at the moment I've only been asking my fellow beginners. I'll get onto it.
Honestly I will. It's just that some of them are just so *good* !

I'm usually open-mouthed with awe!

I am in much the same situation - totally addicted, have been dancing 2 months, have started going twice a week, have signed up for a cerocshop, and bought a ticket for the champs (I am foolhardy friend of purplepony, we are really looking forward to going now, ref: "In too deep ?")
I started freestyling the first week because I didn't have a chance to think it through and let common sense prevail. I have stomped on people, missed a thousand moves, apologised profusely and been fairly embarrased. I have though met some lovely people who have never made me feel bad and some of the time now I can follow thier moves which is such fun.
Good luck!

[Alfie]

Originally posted by Rougeforever

I know I have to start asking more men to dance - but at the moment I've only been asking my fellow beginners.

You could always ask me I'm only a beginner :nice: :nice:

[Minnie M]

Originally posted by Alfie
You could always ask me I'm only a beginner

You must have gone to the same school as Trampy :wink:

[Alfie]

I am really, ask anyone:grin::wink:

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Alfie
I am really, ask anyone:grin::wink: Ditto!! :D

Trampy

[Rougeforever]

Originally posted by Alfie
You could always ask me I'm only a beginner :nice: :nice:

I know you're pulling my leg... but of course. Will ask you to dance as soon as you make yourself known to me :)

Will be at Leamington tomorrow night and Solihull on Thursday.

See you there ? :wink:

[Bill]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
nothing is too far :) (Even Scotland !):wink:

and so the sooner you can get yourself up here the better :D

The great thing about beinga taxi dancer is that it keeps reminding us of what it was like when we all started - the nerves, the fear that we'll never remember any moves- won't follow, can't lead etc........ but the very fact that you can look at these great dancers just shows what you will be doing in a very short space of time :na: :cheers:

People who have only been dancing a few months can look wonderful to someone who is completely new and will be amazed to think that anyone considers them even half decent.

Anyway, have fun ( that's what it's all about) and see you when you get to Scotland - you'll need some time as you'll have to get up from Edinburgh to Dundee then Aberdeen and back through Perth, Stirling and then Glasgow. Couple of weeks should be enough
:D :whistle:

[Unregistered]

I've got a similar, but worse problem. I'm a bloke and one of the (many) complaints my girlfriend has is that my timing is wrong. The problem is I don't naturarlly listen to rhythm - I listen to melody. Indeed in many songs I really struggle to pick out a beat at all, some I simply can't.

In order to hear the rhythm I need something as obvious as the baseline to 'Black Velvet' by Alanah Miles. Even then me and my girlfriend disagree about where the beats are. I count twice as many as she does. Apparantly it alternates between a normal and snare drum - I can't hear the difference without really concentrating, more than I could manage while dancing. This is actually an odd case - for most song where I can find a beat she counts four times as fast as me - I can only hear the emphasised beat, and am sure thats what ceroc teachers are normally counting. She however counts three intermediate beats too - which is in general faster than I consider physically possible to dance too.

At the moment music is a distracting noise, not an aid to dancing.

Quite frankly I'm not sure what to do other than just give up. The only other option I can think of is private practice at home to silence or clasical music without a beat. That way I'd at least get to dance with her while still letting her dance with people she considers any good at classes. Unfortunately shes not keen on helping me.

HELP!

[Gadget]

A couple of brief tips:
- I would dance with other people; especially taxis.
- try counting out-loud.
- try tapping your feet/fingers when (if) sitting some dances out.
- try watching other dancers and see were they are on the beats you recognise.
- listen to music and try to seperate the instruments in your head, following each as it dives in and out of the music.

If you can work out what your partner is listening to (as opposed to what you hear), then you are 99% of the way towards being a good dancer.

Please don't give up - once it 'clicks' you will discover a whole new level of enjoyment :waycool:

{PS you really should register so we know what to call you :wink:}

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Gadget
{PS you really should register so we know what to call you :wink:} Is it just my cynical nature, or do you think that maybe we should be calling whoever posted that (and presumably the other posts in this section), Mr Wind-up Merchant??

Trampy

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by Gadget
A couple of brief tips:
- I would dance with other people; especially taxis.

I do try - but find the good dancers are dancing with the other good dancers! Taxi's are impossible to get hold of when they're concentrating on the 'six weeks or less' people - I've been trying to get the hang of this for 8 months, they probably assume I don't need them any more.


- listen to music and try to seperate the instruments in your head, following each as it dives in and out of the music.

I've been trying this. While its working to some extent its totally destroying my enjoyment of music.



If you can work out what your partner is listening to (as opposed to what you hear), then you are 99% of the way towards being a good dancer.

Please don't give up - once it 'clicks' you will discover a whole new level of enjoyment :waycool:

I don't want to give up, but might have to. Its already destroying my girlfiends enjoyment of ceroc. Maybe I should stop before it kills the relationship?

[/QUOTE] {PS you really should register so we know what to call you :wink:}[/QUOTE]
Yeah probably :)

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by TheTramp
Is it just my cynical nature, or do you think that maybe we should be calling whoever posted that (and presumably the other posts in this section), Mr Wind-up Merchant??

It's not just yours, Steve.

And I don't see the normal horde of helpful people rushing forward to post on thumbless leading, beat counting and the like.

If you fall for an April fool by responding to it on April 2nd does it still count? If not, is it Ok if I wait till tomorrow to be helpful? :D

Chris

[Unregistered]

No its quite genuine. I AM that bad. You know the phrase 'two left feet?' Well I got the two right feet that were left over...

I'm only staying anonymous because I don't want my girlfriend to be able to find this easily. I find it insulting to have genuine difficulties dismissed as an april fool. If thats what I can expect then I definately don't want to register.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Unregistered
I do try - but find the good dancers are dancing with the other good dancers! Taxi's are impossible to get hold of when they're concentrating on the 'six weeks or less' people - I've been trying to get the hang of this for 8 months, they probably assume I don't need them any more.


They may well do, in which case ASK THEM...thats what they're there for. The 6 weeks or less is a guidline for the intermediate class and the estimated time to cover beginner moves, it is not the time it takes you to be able to dance! Some can dance brilliantly in a few months some will never dance brilliantly, but the stumbling block you've hit can be helped if you tell people about it.

Which venue to you go to ?

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Unregistered
No its quite genuine. I AM that bad. You know the phrase 'two left feet?' Well I got the two right feet that were left over...

I'm only staying anonymous because I don't want my girlfriend to be able to find this easily. I find it insulting to have genuine difficulties dismissed as an april fool. If thats what I can expect then I definately don't want to register.
Historically on the forum there have been people who register or post purely to wind up others with controversial posts - sometimes their userids are even alter egos of people already quite well known here.

There may be a little sensitivity about the possibility of another such, so don't take it personally if people are a little reluctant to dive right in - particularly today!

Mostly you'll find people here are very keen to help - but we're real people, and it's a little difficult to relate to someone that is reluctant to identify themselves as a real person.

You don't need to use your real name - very few of us do, or at least not our whole name - but "unregistered" is somewhat impersonal. Part of the fun of the forum is that it isn't just an impersonal message board, and people here get to know one another over time, which makes the community stronger.

Maybe your girlfriend would be pleased that you were seeking to improve as a dancer - so even if she did find out you were here it wouldn't be so awful. Is she here too?

Chris

[twoRIGHTfeet]

Um yeah. Point taken. Sorry - just not in the best of moods right now. Still recovering from not getting any sleep last night due to stressing over this and the resulting argument with my girlfriend.

[twoRIGHTfeet]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
Which venue to you go to ?
Various ones in and around Birmingham - couldn't find a local place to ask these questions.

[Gadget]

Originally posted by twoRIGHTfeet
Um yeah. Point taken. Sorry - just not in the best of moods right now. Still recovering from not getting any sleep last night due to stressing over this and the resulting argument with my girlfriend.
I would guess that you're stressing too much to relax into the song and you're girlfriend is criticising instead of advising (which may be a good point: I would only apply advice from 'trusted' sources like teachers, taxis or dance gods.)

A few more things that may help:
- Sing allong. It's a good way to relax and just dance rather than concentrating too much on moves, timing, leading, footwork, floorcraft...etc.
- If you "loose" the beat or timing within a move, find a way to collect both hands and go into an 'arm-jive'. It's the most rhythmic and easiest move to find the beat again with.
- try mirroring the lady; when they place a foot, you place a foot. there should be no delay or hesitation (although there may be for the first couple of counts). Try it with the arm-jive - just don't do a full 180º swivel.
- try to count in with the teacher when they start the class to music: anticipate the count.
- don't just dance with "good" dancers or a select few; leading beginners or "new" people is a sure way to discover how many different ways what you thought you were leading can actually be interpreted.


Re: Cynics I did think that there was a possability that this was a crank posting - but only for a milisecond: Cranks and april-fools are intended to make a fool of someone. How can I be seen as {even more of} a fool by posting an honest answer? I think that those (normally helpfull) people have been made more of a fool by not posting. :rolleyes:

[ChrisA]

:yeah:

I have no disagreement with any of the suggestions posted so far.

However.

Forgive me, but if in 8 months of Ceroc you still have trouble hearing the beat, then I do think you have a problem, and IMHO, it is your most serious one. If you overcome this, then a lot of other things that may seem to be a problem will become a lot easier to deal with.

It's not insuperable, particularly if, as you say, you can hear the one emphasised beat per bar.

But it does say to me that you need to go back to some really basic basics. And it also says to me that you will need to put some serious work into it.

You need to decide whether dancing is a high enough priority for you - if it is, then you will find the motivation.

FWIW, I think all this stuff about listening to the different instruments is all fine, but it's for further down the line.

For now, you need to find some tracks with a strong beat, expressed clearly in the bass and/or the drums, and learn to hear the four beats per bar. If you need help from someone to do this, then get it - but do it as far from the dance floor as you can. You want a low-pressure learning environment, IMHO.

Learn to clap in time, and then learn to walk in time. The counts in Ceroc actually take two beats - what you're aiming for to start with is to be able to walk in time, one step per Ceroc count, ie one step per two beats of music.

When you can do this reliably, you will be able to start learning to dance in time. You may be able to overlap this with learning the moves, but you might want to concentrate on the hearing the rhythm first.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

Chris

[Rougeforever]

Hello twoRIGHTfeet !

Glad to see another local. Have you tried Solihull or Leamington yet ?

I think Black Velvet isnt the easiest song to tap a beat to. Maybe it's just me - I am fairly beatless. :confused:

I think you'll get a lot better with a bit of practise. Not that it's any of my business, but I try and make a point not to critique my boyfriend on dancing style - I figure we're both beginners, and there are plenty of teachers and taxis who can help.

I've noticed some good female taxis at Leamington - try and get some help from them - I know the taxis I have asked for help have gone out of their way to help me. I had 20 minutes with one taxi trying (mostly in vain) to help me with the sway !

Nice to see another W Midlander. :grin:

[DavidY]

Originally posted by ChrisA
For now, you need to find some tracks with a strong beat, expressed clearly in the bass and/or the drums, and learn to hear the four beats per bar. If you need help from someone to do this, then get it - but do it as far from the dance floor as you can. You want a low-pressure learning environment, IMHO. :yeah: How about next time you're stuck in a traffic jam (not hard to find in the W Mids when you have the M6, M42 etc., at your disposal) sitting in the car, listening to the radio, just tapping your fingers on the steering wheel in time with the music?

Also (and this may be a totally rubbish idea :blush: ) try keeping time with one hand, turn the radio off/right down for a few seconds so you can't hear it, turn it up again, and see if you're still in time with the music.

[Chicklet]

ooh ooh, and sing too and pretend you're a star panelist on I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue!!!
You could also get carried away and have a game of Patience Mornington Crescent, not convinced that will help your dancing ALL that much but!:D

[twoRIGHTfeet]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
[B]Hello twoRIGHTfeet !

Glad to see another local. Have you tried Solihull or Leamington yet ?
Solihull was where I started and to say I have problems with the teacher there would be an understatement! I don't like her either as a teacher or as a person. My personal favourite right now is Jaguar - less crowded, better dance floor, instructions I can understand, better thought out choice of intermediate moves, less rushed feel, attention payed to if people have actually understood before moving on, etc.

Leamington is a bit far (and I understand its currently the same teacher as sollihul).

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
[B]Hello twoRIGHTfeet !
I am fairly beatless. :confused:
Hey maybe should dance with each other sometime if we can get to the same venue? It might not help us much, but if neither of us can tell where the beat is does it matter if we miss it? (Half joking, half serious).

[Emma]

OK, would like to suggest that Rougeforever wears large carnation on Thurs at Solihull, and unregistered carries a copy of Punch. Alternatively I can provide pics of Rouge :grin: (nice ones!!)

Do *please* report back, I want to be a matchmaker when I grow up (apologies to Matt though - it's only dancing, babe and anyhow I know GIRLS I can fix you up with ;) )

[twoRIGHTfeet]

Should probably check with the red one before doing any matchmaking! Not sure about going to Solihull again anyway, see comments elsewhere. I might consider it though if the red one thinks it a good idea, though maybe only once.

[DavidY]

Originally posted by Chicklet
ooh ooh, and sing too and pretend you're a star panelist on I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue!!! Curses!! The source of my suggestion is revealed! (although it was meant as a serious suggestion).

[DavidY]

Originally posted by twoRIGHTfeet
My personal favourite right now is Jaguar - less crowded, better dance floor, instructions I can understand, better thought out choice of intermediate moves, less rushed feel, attention payed to if people have actually understood before moving on, etc. Is that the Jaguar Sports and Social club in Birmingham (Ceroc) on Wednesday?
Or the Jaguar Sports and Social club in Coventry (Blitz) on Thursday?
(Or somewhere else?)

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Emma

Do *please* report back, I want to be a matchmaker when I grow up

I like the mint flavour ones :) think you'd be more of a strawberry :)

[Rougeforever]

Originally posted by Unregistered
Hey maybe should dance with each other sometime if we can get to the same venue? It might not help us much, but if neither of us can tell where the beat is does it matter if we miss it? (Half joking, half serious).

That would be fun :grin:

Seriously though, sounds like you need the fun putting back into your dancing - and I'm all about laughing at myself !

Come to Solihull on Thursday. You'll be able to tell who I am a mile away. I'm the tallest, fattest (but most lovely !) lady there ! :yum:

We'll have a couple of dances ! Come to the beginners review session - the solihull ones are the best I've been to. :flower:

[DavidY]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
Come to Solihull on Thursday. Were you at Solihull this week (1st April)?
I was in Birmingham earlier in the evening so went along (didn't get there till 9:15 ish though).

[Rougeforever]

Originally posted by DavidY
Were you at Solihull this week (1st April)?
I was in Birmingham earlier in the evening so went along (didn't get there till 9:15 ish though).

Sadly I was in London on Thursday, and didn't get home in time to dance :tears:

I didn't dance on Monday either at Leamington because of a horiffic cold.

I'm sure I've forgotten every move I've ever learnt now.

Still, will dance Monday and Thursday this week and try to remember some of them :)

Was supposed to be starting intermediates a couple of weeks ago - but saw the demo of the class and went and hid in the toilets with terror. :what:

[twoRIGHTfeet]

Originally posted by DavidY
Is that the Jaguar Sports and Social club in Birmingham (Ceroc) on Wednesday?\
That one

[twoRIGHTfeet]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
Was supposed to be starting intermediates a couple of weeks ago - but saw the demo of the class and went and hid in the toilets with terror. :what:
I'd try a different venue to start intermediates with. Lynn's routines would probably be classed as advanced if such a level officially existed (intermediates is everything that isn't beginners. Some of the moves I've seen her teach are as complex as all three taught elsewhere put together! Some intermediate moves are actually easier than some beginners ones, they're just not on the list of beginners moves to keep the size down.

Alternatively try a workshop, I've not done an intermediate one yet, but supposedly they teach you the basic intermediate moves. If you've done (for example) a pretzel by itself you're more likely to understand instructions which include 'its like a pretzel, but you do this instead and then do something else as well.'

[Sheepman]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
I think Black Velvet isnt the easiest song to tap a beat to. I would say that it is just the speed of this song that can make it tricky.

To help find the beat, how about counting out the number of beats per minute for familiar tracks? (It needs a clock/watch with a second hand, and a fair amount of concentration when you start). Counting in groups of 8 should also help with phraseology at a later stage, so count and tap, 1 -and - 2 - and - 3 etc. then doubling the number of counts in a minute will give you the bpm. For most popular Ceroc numbers this will be between about 120 and 150.

8 months may seem a long time to still be struggling with this, but persevere! I know several dancers who have struggled for much longer than this, but who came through eventually.

Greg

[thewacko]

??<i]Originally posted by Rougeforever [/i]
Heh, if you've read my journal you'll know that I already hassle taxi-dancers :wink:
I know I have to start asking more men to dance - but at the moment I've only been asking my fellow beginners. I'll get onto it.
Honestly I will. It's just that some of them are just so *good* !

I'm usually open-mouthed with awe! [/QUOTE]

ok so we had a laugh on another thread about emma's paintings, but this is getting serious so, as promised, get your ass down to Charlton. I am certain emma will play a tune you feel at home with and this taxi dancer will be more than happy for you to hassle him (even though I am officially off duty at Charlton as I taxi at Greenwich - but for you:flower:

Oh my god I hope Emma doesn't see this, else my reputation for being a bad boy is going down the pan:devil:

[Rougeforever]

Originally posted by thewacko

ok so we had a laugh on another thread about emma's paintings, but this is getting serious so, as promised, get your ass down to Charlton. I am certain emma will play a tune you feel at home with and this taxi dancer will be more than happy for you to hassle him (even though I am officially off duty at Charlton as I taxi at Greenwich - but for you:flower:


I will certainly get my ass down there once I come back from holiday :grin: I've not had an offer as good as that in *years* ! :wink:

Hope it's ok to bring my feet as well as my ass, they improve my spins no end !:rofl:

[thewacko]

Originally posted by Rougeforever
I will certainly get my ass down there once I come back from holiday :grin: I've not had an offer as good as that in *years* ! :wink:

Hope it's ok to bring my feet as well as my ass, they improve my spins no end !:rofl:

bring the rest of you as well, as that makes it more pleasing to the eye:yum:

just ask emma and i am sure she will point me out

look forward to seeing you - have a nice holiday:clap:

[Rougeforever]

Originally posted by thewacko
bring the rest of you as well, as that makes it more pleasing to the eye:yum:

You clearly haven't met me :wink:

[Emma]

Originally posted by thewacko
Oh my god I hope Emma doesn't see this, else my reputation for being a bad boy is going down the pan:devil: Sweetheart, the bad boy rep has been down the pan ever since you stopped dismantling your trousers and wearing them on your head :what: (Liz, I think you need to know what you're getting yourself into here! :rofl: )

[thewacko]

Originally posted by Emma
Sweetheart, the bad boy rep has been down the pan ever since you stopped dismantling your trousers and wearing them on your head :what: (Liz, I think you need to know what you're getting yourself into here! :rofl: )

Hey they dont call me the wacko for nothing:whistle:

so you finally got out of bed then em xxx

[firefly]

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but it relates to something I was thinking about after class last night, and wondered if anyone could give me some pointers?

I find when I'm dancing with some leads that we don't seem to be in time with the music, and that sets up a mismatch in my head as to whether I should be following exactly the way I'm led, or following the moves but more in time with the music? I only seem to have this problem with some leads; the complete beginners are usually trying to concentrate on so many other things as well that I just go with the flow, and with other leads I have such great dances that I find myself at the end thinking how short it was and wondering where the time went! :rofl: I assume that means I didn't notice if we ever went off the beat :innocent:

It tends to be something I notice with leaders who've been dancing for a while, and often have a good repertoire of moves which they can lead you into smoothly and confidently. And often it's not a huge mismatch, but enough for me to notice that we're dancing slightly out of time with the music. I do enjoy those dances, I'm just not sure what the correct thing would be for me to do in that situation.

I'm sorry if this is coming across as big-headed beginner syndrome. I know that there are things I could do to improve (arm tension, balance etc), and I'm not trying to suggest that my musicality is faultless. But I think I have a reasonably musical ear, so I get a bit frustrated knowing whether it would be better if I danced with my partner and ignored the music, or danced my partner's moves but to the music?

I think this post has turned out a bit longer than I expected! But I'd really appreciate some advice on what the right etiquette (correct dance term?) is. Any advice from both leaders AND followers would be much appreciated! :flower:

[Ghost]

Any advice from both leaders AND followers would be much appreciated! :flower: Personally. I think the lead has enough to worry about as it is. When I started Ceroc, I just learned to dance the beginners moves to the music (phrasing, vocals etc) and completely ignored the beat. Then when I'd got the hang of that, I learnt to do it with the beat. Then I learnt how to do it with the beat and the music.

Plus stuff happens - the lead's worrying about something, or their lover's getting a lttle too UCP with the person they're dancing with etc.

So I'd say, it's your role to follow. If the lead is completely off-beat and he seems to be dancing to something else entirely, well then it's a challenge to your following abilities.

You can try and feedback afterwards - they're different schools of though as to how good an idea this is though.

On the occassions when I follow. I'll play or interpret the music if given the chance, but I'll equally happily ignore the music and follow whatever's led.

Hope that helps,
Christopher

[Emma]

Dancing out of time can be grim, especially if it's a tune you like. My main trick for attempting to bring someone back on beat is to end a spin and offer my hand back on time, or less often to force a little pause (with wiggle, naturally) to come back into time.

Not everyone gets the hint, though; and ultimately the leader's leading so generally I'll just ignore the music if possible and follow. Like Ghost says there's a lot for leaders to think about, especially when they're new to dancing.

I've had some really lovely dances which completely ignored the music. I wouldn't have enjoyed them at all if I'd been listening to it ;)

[Nick]

The best I can suggest is to try and find the guys who can dance in time.

Other than that...

If it's a track you don't know and can't anticipate, or a track that has a complicate rhythm, then don't sweat about it too much - that can be very hard to keep time to.

And...you will improve over time, as you relax into it, as you become familiar with the moves and with the ways of the various people you dance with.

Emma was right too. Ceroc's about having fun and enjoying the company - if you like the person you're dancing with that's important. Some of my favourite partners aren't the best dancers, but they're fun to dance with in some way or other.

[firefly]

Thanks to everyone who's posted. I think the advice really confirms what I'd suspected; the leader's leading and all I need to do is follow. Anything else is a bonus. Though I haven't been dancing ceroc that long, from the start I was pretty struck by how much the leader was expected to do - don't know how you guys (and gals!) do it! :worthy:

I appreciate the advice to find partners who can dance in time, but I would like to improve, and I think one of the best ways of doing that is to dance as much as possible, with as many partners as possible.

At the end of the day my main aim is to have fun and enjoy myself; you can usually pick me out because of the huge cheesy grin I have on my face for most of the night!

(BTW Christopher, I like your taste in signatures. I see we share similar tastes! :rofl: )

[Beowulf]

I have a novel approach to rhythm, that is, I don’t have any or at least I do but it’s usually the wrong one! I may be listening to, oh I don’t know, “The Mavericks” but in my head it ends up all Philip Glass! :confused:

I had a dance with, erm, Lorna is it? The Instructor at Culter, that was scary as obviously she was very in time with the beat and I, well, was dancing to my own internal soundtrack . The last thing I want to do when dancing is plant my 14st and Size 11 feet down on my dance partners delicate tootsies. No no.. that would never do. :eek:

I’m sure I’ll get there eventually but as you say it’s harder at the start for us blokes as we have to remember the moves, put them together in an interesting and non repetitive manner , follow the beat and look as if you’re enjoying yourself! (Which I do btw.. you just can’t tell as I’m too busy looking at my feet ;) )

[straycat]

I’m sure I’ll get there eventually but as you say it’s harder at the start for us blokes as we have to remember the moves, put them together in an interesting and non repetitive manner , follow the beat and look as if you’re enjoying yourself! (Which I do btw.. you just can’t tell as I’m too busy looking at my feet ;) )

I'm sure this has been said before (I'm brand-new on this forum) - and I know it's easier said than done, but my own advice is to stop worrying about the moves, don't even worry about the beat - just focus on your partner and the music, relax, enjoy, and just dance. Everything else will follow. To me, musicality is king, and you can only really get that by dancing to the music.

A long long time ago, a certain famous teacher told me that she vastly preferred a beginner who knew barely two moves and enjoyed playing around to the music, to someone with a large repertoire, who was trying too hard...

I probably took that a little too seriously, as all this time later I still don't know many moves, but just make them up as I go - but that is half the fun of it.

[Gadget]

I'm sure this has been said before (I'm brand-new on this forum) - and I know it's easier said than done, but my own advice is to stop worrying about the moves, don't even worry about the beat - just focus on your partner and the music, relax, enjoy, and just dance. Everything else will follow. To me, musicality is king, and you can only really get that by dancing to the music.Welcome :flower:
Unfortunatly I think some people get a bit freaked when you focus on them too much :whistle:
The main "worry" with moves I think is that a lead dances the moves they know again and again with different people, with even more repetition when they only know one or two moves. It's not really that the follower's get board, but that the lead does: the follower changes to a different partner every dance - the lead is stuck with themselves all through the night!


I probably took that a little too seriously, as all this time later I still don't know many moves, but just make them up as I go - but that is half the fun of it.:D So do I, but that requires confidence that you can get out of anything you get into, and that takes time and learning moves so you know some more options of how/where to get out of them.

I agree with what you are saying though: relax and just dance :clap:

[straycat]

Unfortunatly I think some people get a bit freaked when you focus on them too much :whistle:

Well - I didn't mean 'stare at them like a lunatic and freak them out'. Although that can occasionally be funny. Ahem.
I really meant - don't ignore your partner - the follower, after all, is the focus of the dance, and the leader should be taking care of the follower at all times - we look better by showing off our followers, not by showing off ourselves. That's a little outside the remit of this thread though - not something for beginners to worry about.


The main "worry" with moves I think is that a lead dances the moves they know again and again with different people, with even more repetition when they only know one or two moves. It's not really that the follower's get board, but that the lead does: the follower changes to a different partner every dance - the lead is stuck with themselves all through the night!

Very true, which is why the following is so important...


I agree with what you are saying though: relax and just dance :clap: