Charity Dances

[Lounge Lizard]

Ok I have been wanting to start this thread for a while
I recieved this Email today, so this is a good excuse as any

Sliding Vinyl Discotheques present THE MAY CHARITY BALL - SAT 22nd MAY
Hammersmith Town Hall, King Street, London W6 9JU
Saturday 22nd May 7.45pm – 2 am
Black Tie Ball For Cancer Research* - Top DJs - Free Jive Dance Classes with one of the UK's leading Dance Couples - Introductory lesson starts 8pm, Intermediate lesson 8.30 - Pinball / Table Football Room* - Roller Waitresses - Free Prize Draw - Cheap Bar All Night - Beer £2 a bottle
On door price £35 per ticket (if still available) – Reductions for booking early - Pay £25 Before 14 March (save £10) Pay £30 14 March - 30 April
Tickets are selling fast so spread the word!
Buy 5 tickets - get a free bottle of wine on the night...Buy 10 tickets - get a free bottle of champagne on the night
www.slidingvinyl.com
* Have a look at the crazy fascinating machines on www.pinballgeoff.com
* £1 per ticket will be donated to Cancer Research

PLEASE READ THIS BIT

I am not having a go at organisers of charity dances, anyone that gives up their time to raise money for charity gets my vote, unless it is a phoney atempt to cash in on the word 'charity'

On the south coast we have four major dances and a full dance weekender devoted to charity - Phil please post details.
Lots of money will be raised, but at what costs

I know the local organisers now struggle to put on major workshops or dances in our area as Phil has captured the market, yet these organisers are the same ones that provide the dancers for the charity events.

So comments please, genuine discussion on whether there should be a limit to number of events, should all income/expenditure etc. be published, if the Events affect local organisers (who may depend on dance as their only source of income) should they also benefit from the charity event, if so how.

[Lounge Lizard]

Well start a thread and post the first reply....here are my thoughts

All income admin costs and contribution to charity should be declared within a two weeks of the event
the organiser is entitled to make a reasonable profit for his time and effort

If it affects local organisers who REGULARlY put on dances, (as is the case in Brighton) Why not let each individual organiser stage a dance each, and donate an agreed % to the named charity, the organiser keeps the profit.

Personaly, the best charity event I have ever been to was organised by Ianmate
Everyone gave their time for free, a realy good fun day was had by all and Ian stood on stage at midnight to announce how much he made in a single day.

I do not think the charity orgaisation matters as long as it is genuine and clearly stated - e.g. Mencap, to raise cash for a sick freind/relative or money for the children in need appeal.

[Jon L]

I think what Phil does in Brighton is good, it was well organised. Hove TH is a great place.

My thoughts are that every organiser must do what is right for them, and I would quite understand that if teachers participate in say Stompin giving up their time, then I will quite understand if they decide to say no say no other charity events, after all they have a right to make a living.

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
All income admin costs and contribution to charity should be declared within a two weeks of the event

Declared to who?

Why?

Personally speaking, I'd just like to know that the money raised goes to the charity after the expenses are taken into account - that's all I feel I need to know. This suggestion shows a distrust in the honesty of the organiser - and if the organiser were dishonest I'm sure he could cook up a reasonable sounding statement of accounts for people to look at.


Brighton Charity Dances

Moving on to the specifics raised by LL regarding Brighton charity dances.

These Mencap dances are now part of the local scene. They happen 4 weekends a year. This leaves 48 weekends for the local organisers to make a living - plus 260 weekdays! If an organiser has a problem with not finding enough weekends to have his/her dances I think they should look to the other organisers who have anything up to 2 dances a month before pointing a finger at the 4 Mencap charity dances a year.

And, IMHO, what the local organisers need to do is consider QUALITY rather than QUANTITY when considering how many dances to have. In Brighton we're subjected to the same old formula that's been around for 10 years - why should we pay £8-£10 to attend a dance where we are played a pre-prepared minidisc or CD rather than having a proper DJ?

[Minnie M]

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
............On door price £35 per ticket (if still available) – ..../snip/............
*£1 per ticket will be donated to Cancer Research
[/B]

This is the bit that makes me cross :devil:

If this is a 'Charity' dance why is only £1 going to charity and how can you justify the £35 (even if it is the door price) - especially without a band !

It should be advertised as a May Ball with some money going to Charity -

BTW I agree Phil Duckets Charity events are fantastic, and he does a great job - and as a dancer I am grateful for them - however, I can see LL's point

[TheTramp]

:yeah:

Does seem like a bit (lot?) of a scam to me too. If there's 500 people there, that'll be £500 going to charity, and (at least, depending on whether people buy tickets before the 14th March) £12,000 going to 'other interests'!!!

Just out of interest, who are the top DJs and UK leading dance couple? And will they still do it, if they find out the details?

Also, who is the person behind the whole thing. There's no 'name' to be found anywhere on their website. Just the company name. There's also no indication on their 'client' list that they've ever done any jive event before...

Steve

[Lounge Lizard]

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Declared to who?

Why? cos I know of at least one event that stated all proceeds went to charity yet 60% was creamed off. Declare amount raised at the end of the night and post ALL details on the web page (as I believe Phil does)


Originally posted by Andy McGregor

Moving on to the specifics raised by LL regarding Brighton charity dances.

These Mencap dances are now part of the local scene. They happen 4 weekends a year. This leaves 48 weekends for the local organisers to make a living - plus 260 weekdays! If an organiser has a problem with not finding enough weekends to have his/her dances I think they should look to the other organisers who have anything up to 2 dances a month before pointing a finger at the 4 Mencap charity dances a year.

And, IMHO, what the local organisers need to do is consider QUALITY rather than QUANTITY when considering how many dances to have. In Brighton we're subjected to the same old formula that's been around for 10 years - why should we pay £8-£10 to attend a dance where we are played a pre-prepared minidisk or CD rather than having a proper DJ?

Andy - first of all I am not criticising Phil or his events which are great, well organised and very popular.
I am not just talking about the Brighton dance scene.
(or am I speaking as a local organiser, I am not affected by Brighton events in Hastings),

this hopefully is a discussion on charity dances and their effect on local organisers or dance scene - in the long term does it improve the local dance scene.

Your comments on the other 48 weeks of the year are cobblers!
any given area will find it hard to substantiate more than 4 major balls and 1 dance weekender - otherwise Franck would have a BB every month or Adam a masked ball.

I know for a fact two local major organisers in our area are stopping workshops (with 'A list' teachers) cos their numbers have dropped as a direct result of charity events

You are top of the tree when it comes to complaining about local dances, (in fact it is on par with Jeff Jasper and smoking).

So join in the discussion, how have they benefited the local dance scene or affected other dance events.

I discussed this thread with Phil last year, I think he is now probably the number 1 fund raiser for charity n our dance scene, but should it all be focused in Brighton - would other organisers in London, Scotland, Manchester etc. welcome Phil into their area, help and encourage his events

So guys, lets discuss charity events within the MJ dance scene on a national basis not Brighton gripes or defensive comments:cheers:....well apart from the next bit :wink:

Originally posted by Andy McGregor why should we pay £8-£10 to attend a dance where we are played a pre-prepared minidisk or CD rather than having a proper DJ? Sorry I disagree with this Julian (Jools Jive) is as good as any DJ playing at Camber, Beach Boogie etc. he puts on regular dances and plays a wide variety of music from early 'pop' sets to bluesier between 12 - 1am

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
cos I know of at least one event that stated all proceeds went to charity yet 60% was creamed off. Declare amount raised at the end of the night and post ALL details on the web page (as I believe Phil does)

I agree, if people aren't giving all the profit to charity I think they should tell us what they are doing.

It strikes me that some organisers might be using the 'charity' donation as a promotional tool rather than for any other reason. On the other hand, if a charity truly benefits it's still better than nothing:waycool - ish:


Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
Your comments on the other 48 weeks of the year are cobblers! Any given area will find it hard to substantiate more than 4 major balls and 1 dance weekender - otherwise Franck would have a BB every month or Adam a masked ball.

This is a spurious argument. With so many dancers prepared to travel long distances you could just as easily say that Bognor, Camber, etc have caused Brighton organisers to stop doing workshops. Katie Baxter of RebelRoc has organised the sell-out Rebel Yell in the period as Phil has been running Stompin' . Any of the local organisers could have done the same thing. I still say it's down to quality. If there was another quality weekend with great teachers people would go. In my opinion we haven't reached saturation yet. And I can't wait until we do because it will mean that people will start to consider quality rather than quantity. For example, Jeff Jasper has 3 Saturday dances in February, and not one of them will be great - and if anyone goes up against him with their own dance Mr Jasper makes his free! And THAT is what is affecting the Brighton dance scene more than the Stompin' events:tears:


Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
So join in the discussion, how have they benefited the local dance scene or affected other dance events.

There is an obvious answer and this is it. The Stompin' weekends have benefitted the local dance scene because they are a great event for local dancers to attend - it's as simple as that:waycool:

But I think your question should have been 'How have they benefitted local organisers?' And I think the answer is that they keep people interested in Modern Jive. Also, the local organisers could have put on a similar weekend years before Stompin' was started - but they didn't and left the door open for someone else to do it! And, if your argument about the area only being able to support one Stopmin' style event then only one of the 3 local organisers could have put it on so the other 2 would have been in the same position as you say they are in now.


Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
Sorry I disagree with this Julian (Jools Jive) is as good as any DJ playing at Camber, Beach Boogie etc. he puts on regular dances and plays a wide variety of music from early 'pop' sets to bluesier between 12 - 1am

I agree with you. Jules is the only local organiser who seems to DJ. He's the only Brighton organiser who's dances I go to nowadays and my major gripe about him is that his flapjacks run out too soon...

Otherwise his dances are as good as anyone's:grin:

[CJ]

Firstly, I should declare an interest here.

I have DJ'd many, many balls for charity. I have also been involved in organising 5 charity balls in aid of The PBC Foundation. This is a registered charity for whom I work.

That interest aside, I do have concerns about organisations doing a "charity ball" and raising £1 per ticket. That said, in Edinburgh, most ball tickets are about £60 (Just attended Red Cross Ball @ £80 per head!!) to allow for charities to make something off the ticket price.

The best part of £30 will usually cover meal, room hire, entertainment, etc.

Obviously, it's up to the organiser to call in favours, offer sexual favours, etc to get the best deals/freebies available. (Indeed I've been off the forum recently trying to fulfil my obligations!!) This comes to my main (ish) point: that someone within an organisation will do this better than someone within an agency (more passion, belief in project and that indescribable "thing" that most voluntary sector workers have that makes them go "The extra mile")

Numbers of balls? I, again personally, feel the Edinburgh market is saturated, but that doesn't say the Brighton one is. Also, I don't know how many Scottish MJ dancers attend these kind of events, so they may not affect MJ events quite so much.

Lastly, if anyone wishes to support The PBC Foundation, please look at our website here (http://www.pbcfoundation.org.uk) then call Gillian on 0131 225 8586 to make your donation!!:waycool:

:D

[Sheepman]

Originally posted by Minnie M
This is the bit that makes me cross :devil:

If this is a 'Charity' dance why is only £1 going to charity Me too, sounds like a publicity stunt to me, rather than a real charity event. Anyway, it clashes with Rock Bottom's in Torquay, (supporting the RBs team's dance habit sounds like just as worthwhile a charity event to me :wink: )

My main problem with charity events is the sponsorship, I agree with LL that Ian's event in 2002 was excellent, but there was the hassle of pledging and collecting sponsorship. Personally I had sponsorship fatigue, after a charity ski event earlier in the year, where we raised about £100,000 for the BHF, I reckon you need about 5 years before you can start hassling people again, and the amount of work involved in the collecting can be a nightmare.

When it comes to a dance, I just want to go along and enjoy the night, and if the proceeds go to charity, that's fine by me, and it may make me more likely to go to that dance rather than a competitors, but my decision is more likely to be based on the venue, music, and other factors. When it comes to the dances at Gt Bookham, (which nearly all sell out nowadays) they win on all counts, and although the proceeds are going to charity, it isn't something that is made a big thing of. So I can't say that running charity events should be something that effects other peoples business that much, not if they are getting the formula right in the first place.

Greg

[stompin' phil]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
Well start a thread and post the first reply....here are my thoughts



Hi Lounge Lizard

I apologise for not replying sooner but I have only just noticed this thread due to been away for the weekend.
I will give a brief history of my personal background in to these charity events and how I became involved.
I started the charity dances after participating in a cycle down the Nile bike ride for Mencap some years ago. After competing in this event and still on a high I started to think how could I raise more money for the Mencap cause? As an average dancer since 1998 and every now and then tripping the light fantastic in various dance venues around the south I thought this could be a way to do it.
One of the things I did not want to do was go down the road of “penny a mile schemes “as IMO I felt I would be hassling people and hopefully that’s not my personality and it would also be a logistical nightmare.

So if I could put on a dance which would be moulded and created on how I think an event should be run i.e. atmosphere, value for money, personal touch etc and at the same time if every one who comes has such a good time they would not feel they had even been hassled or felt charity money had been taken from their pockets!
When putting on any event whether for charity or commercial gain there are always expenses. These are usually Hall hire, Stewarding, dj, promotional leaflets etc.and it is very rare when you put these events on in large dance halls do you get it for nothing the best you can hope for is a charity rate.

The hall alone at Hove town Hall on a Saturday is over a £1000+ with stewards

QUOTE]Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
[B]“the organiser is entitled to make a reasonable profit for his time and effort”


When I set out on this quest to raise £10,000 a few years ago and at the same time decide my promotional agenda one of the things I made quite clear in my own mind as well as telling other people I would not take one penny in “wages” or expenses for myself and I would stay neutral from the politics of dance!

The organiser of any charity event should not be allowed to make any personal profits for the time they put in themselves but just seeing the money been raised as well as people having a good time should be a just reward. So I have to disagree with the above quote from LL
Before my first dance I approached all the organisers who were around at the time (I knew them all personally having attending there venues regularly) and asked if they would put out the leaflets for the charity event. All excepted.
The initial campaign was 4 dances a year one every quarter
As the events carried on it was quite clear to me it was going to take for ever to raise £10,000 as it is only the last 2-4 pounds after initials costs have been taken out that goes to charity or commercial gain. (That’s if sufficient numbers come through the door to start with!)
Hence after talking to various teachers I came up with the Stompin in Brighton 2003 event. With the belief that the more that is in the pot the better chance more will stick and be raised.
We raised £11,300 and a cheque was handed over to the Chairmen of the Mencap Sussex committee.
In my opinion a job well done.

When organising events whether commercial or charitable it is not easy and you have to have some type of business or game plan to let the public know your event and what your event stands for. (Various threads have touched on this subject)
Local organisers are only a part (but an important part) of a bigger machine when trying to promote a charity event.
Having a dancer Emailing list. Dance lists, www.lyndaslist.com www.modernjive.com www.jive-uk.co.uk www.jivehive.co.uk to name a few, word of mouth etc etc

Running 2 businesses and been self-employed for the last 15yrs one has to treat this challenge as a commercial one to make it work. Its one thing raising £100 at a local charity event (job well done) it’s another taking it up several levels within a limited time scale. So commitment is crucial.

My aim was always to attract people from all over the south to an event, which hopefully they would feel was good enough to travel to. To do this I promoted that certain top teachers etc would be there (more threads on this subject)

Nothing new or original, Franco’s successful Camber/Bognor as well as Simon’s Monster Jive cocktail to name a few.



During the year I run just 3 Sat evening dances and on the same day a work shop from the teacher who is doing the evening lesson and cabaret. On average within these 3 one-day workshops we average 40/50 people and I would say the majority are “out of town people”
Robert Austin’s recent workshop only had 14 but every one had a great time. How can that cause a collapse in the local market for workshops!

During the evening dances I would say 75% of the dancers who are there live more than 10 miles from Brighton and come from all over Kent, Surrey, Sussex borders as well as a good group each time coming from London and beyond. Originally we had Steve Strong djing until his work commitments took over and IMO was replaced by one of the best djs and nicest guys around John Miller from Jag Jive who also puts on charity dances in Surrey.
As LL you attend these dances and you will also be aware of seeing people who would not normally be at a Brighton dance.
At the evening dance I supply 3 tables, which are full of leaflets of events through out the south as well as flyers for all types of other things! Any one who attends the dance in the evening is free to to put whatever dance literature they want on the tables provided. Glancing at the tables during the evening it gives it a great cosmopolitan feel.

IMO the Charity events are a great opportunity for Brighton people to get to know out of town good dancers who either bring new conversations, new dance moves and tips, different dance styles which when all put together help bring a freshness to the night and hopefully a buzz.
I’m not saying the other organisers events do not bring this as well because I attend these also but at the charity dances I put on I’m just doing what I feel is the way forward. That doesn’t mean it’s right as every thing has a shelf life and peoples interests change, time will tell.



QUOTE]Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
I know the local organisers now struggle to put on major workshops or dances in our area as Phil has captured the market, yet these organisers are the same ones that provide the dancers for the charity events.

I’m not sure if you’re meaning Brighton as you mentioned Brighton was not local to you but how could 3 dances on 3 Saturday’s out of 52 capture the whole market of the Brighton and surrounding areas for a whole year!

Unfortunately in to days society there is not one area that is funded 100% by the government (unless you know different)…… Oh! may be MP wages!
With agencies and charities crying out to make this world a better place I feel really privileged that I am doing my bit and giving something back. This all so goes for the dancers who have supported the events so far as if it was not for you we could not have raised the monies so far that we have.

I thank you

My goal this year or by the end of Stompin’ in Brighton 2004 Sat/Sun 27/28th March is to have raise another £15,000
I’m feeling major stress and anxiety! We need another 48. So it’s not to late to book your place on the workshops www.eventsforcharity.co.uk for booking forms.

I understand you are not having a go at me LL but just raising various points regarding this grey area of dance. As long as the charity Saturday dances stay as a minority in % terms. Lets say 15% of the years Sats that should not really create an unbalance with other organisers in the area IMO. This should also work through out the country on the same formula.

On the other hand there is nothing wrong in doing charity events every week if there was a demand and nobody minded if the money was going to a good cause.

In my long drawn out slur of a reply to LL I have also tried to mention what I have done to start a charity event it’s not a formula and it may not work all the time but if it helps some one, good luck.
.
IMO I was also quite surprised as was you that only £1 was donated to a charitable cause especially at £35 per ticket

Lastly with business commitments, 3 children. A partner who is a vegetarian! (I like meat) and my local Mencap interests I do not think I would ever have time in setting up similar events around the country.

Setting them up when I did was the right moment in time. Could they be done from scratch today…who knows!

Keep on Stompin’

Phil Duckett

[Lounge Lizard]

Great posting phil
This highlights the two extreemes in charity events, the first event £1 to charity:what: advertising 'top DJ's'...the event organiser is the DJ it seems.... and someone who works hard with no personal financial gain and puts on a fantastic event.
I think it is a shame that you are not expanding beyond Brighton tho.
What is your target for this year?
Have you sold out at Stompin?
Is there a thread for stompin etc.
can you post more information please
peter

[Minnie M]

Originally posted by stompin' phil
... A partner who is a vegetarian ! (I like meat).....

:rofl: :rofl: :yeah:
Sorry it was putting the " ! " in there made me laugh :wink:
I remember when my son went veggie - what a pain

Great posting Phil :cheers:

[Lory]

Originally posted by Minnie M
:rofl: :rofl: :yeah:
Sorry it was putting the " ! " in there made me laugh :wink:



You've obviously got the same sense of humour to me Minnie, as I really laughed when I read that bit too. :rofl:

It's got absolutly NOTHING to do with the thread but then again, why shouldn't he get it all off his chest while he's at it! :D

Brilliant!:rofl:

[Bill]

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
the organiser is entitled to make a reasonable profit for his time and effort


Personaly, the best charity event I have ever been to was organised by Ianmate Everyone gave their time for free


If an event is really a 'charity ' event shouldn't everyone give their time for free. What is a 'reasonable' profit for the organiser and if most folk give their time and effort for nothing shouldn't the organisers ??? One person might find £50 as reasonable and someone else might think £500 !

The Scottish Ceroc comp is a charity event in as much as all profits go to charity and this certainly has an effect on the atmosphere and the participation.