Teachers' and DJs' pay

[Lounge Lizard]

Originally posted by Gus
With clubs operating within striking distance the pressure will be on competing clubs to raise their game or suffer dropping numbers. I'm not sure (personal view only) about how people will view 'poaching' a DJ ... but maybe its like football teams ... you have to be willing to pay more than the opposition to get the better players. So .. will a bidding war break out in other areas of competition tempt away 'star' DJ/teachers/crew? .... or does anyone know of any cases where this has already happened? I wish... took me 9 months to find a regular weekday DJ booking.
I will probably move over to wedding circuit for saturday night bookings, unfortunatly payment on most MJ dance nights is very low compared to other events.

How important is the DJ on a dance night....everyone knows my views but I think I may be in a minority
Peter

[Gus]

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
........ unfortunatly payment on most MJ dance nights is very low compared to other events.


Lets see:
Teach a MJ night - about 1.5 hours work ... about #50 :grin:
DJ a MJ night - about 4 hours work ... about #40 :sad:

'Nuff said!

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Gus
Lets see:
Teach a MJ night - about 1.5 hours work ... about #50 :grin:
DJ a MJ night - about 4 hours work ... about #40 :sad:

'Nuff said! Um, excuse me, I'm certainly not disputing that MJ dj's are badly paid but with regard to Ceroc teachers (don't know about others) - it's less than £50 where we're from, and it's definitely more than 1.5 hours work! As well as preparing the class beforehand, a teacher should be working for the whole evening, in my opinion, not just for the actual classes.
Rachel

[Gus]

Originally posted by Rachel
Um, excuse me, I'm certainly not disputing that MJ dj's are badly paid but with regard to Ceroc teachers (don't know about others) - it's less than £50 where we're from, and it's definitely more than 1.5 hours work! As well as preparing the class beforehand, a teacher should be working for the whole evening, in my opinion, not just for the actual classes.
Rachel

Unless things have changed a lot in the last 18 months CTA pay rates can vary on experince and franchisee. I was paid a fair bit more to teach than DJ.

Agree that teachers should be on duty for most of the night ... but my experinec of a lot of venues thats not the case. Speaking from experiene ... I fing it a lot easier to put together two routines, teach, dance with the punters than lug around some fairly heavy gear, panic over what tracks to play (after investing a vast amounts of my own cash on my CD collection) work on stage all night, pack it all away then get b*gger all thanks from anyone:tears:

Teachers ... huh ... dont know they're born:wink:

[TheTramp]

:yeah:

Though I don't mind teaching too :whistle:

Steve

[bigdjiver]

It is an essential part of the MJ business model, so far, that the vast majority are involved because they love it rather than for the money.

[Gus]

Originally posted by bigdjiver
It is an essential part of the MJ business model, so far, that the vast majority are involved because they love it rather than for the money.

And with DJs that where its falling apart. Its long hours, hard work and, if you maintain your own CD collection, WAY underpaid. {ODA}Why should franchisees make a profit by exploiting DJs?

[Franck]

Originally posted by Gus
And with DJs that where its falling apart. Its long hours, hard work and, if you maintain your own CD collection, WAY underpaid. {ODA}Why should franchisees make a profit by exploiting DJs? I'll take the bait Gus... I can't remember a time when DJs were paid less than 50 pounds for a night, and I don't think I'm exploiting any of my DJs... Well maybe the Tramp, but he enjoys it :wink:
I also disagree, all the DJs I know do it for the love of music, not for the money (though it doesn' t mean they don't need the money to feed their cd buying habit :D )

DJs, just like most professions are subject to the market (supply and demand), many people *want* to be a DJ, and as there is no DJ training certification, anyone can offer their services and undercut the competition. Top DJs migt be able to ask for more money, but
[stealing ODA mantle]top DJs are only popular with a small group of advanced dancers who are not representative of 80% of dancers out there who love the 'overplayed tracks' and request them every week. [ /ODA ].

In my 12 years of organizing events, very rarely has any DJ increased the numbers attending. All DJs (without exceptions) have been complained about, and have:

1- encouraged some people to keep attending a venue.
2- put people off attending a specific night.

both at the same time... My approach now is to offer a different style of DJ when there is a choice of night in the same city, and the broadest possible range when there isn't.

At the end of the day, how much per hour should DJs be able to ask for? 5 pounds? 10 pounds? 20 pounds? more? A typical Ceroc night will involve 4 hours of work for a DJ (including setup and wrapup) still way more than say nurses :nice:

[Gus]

Originally posted by Franck
I'll take the bait Gus...

At the end of the day, how much per hour should DJs be able to ask for? 5 pounds? 10 pounds? 20 pounds? more? A typical Ceroc night will involve 4 hours of work for a DJ (including setup and wrapup) still way more than say nurses :nice:

Well met Sir .... feel I must agree with you .... oh the shame, the shame:blush:

Would you at least agree with me that the teachers have a far easier deal?:devil: :devil:

[Franck]

Originally posted by Gus
Would you at least agree with me that the teachers have a far easier deal?:devil: :devil: Do they?

First there is all the training, which as you know is a lot of preparation, followed by a lot of humiliation and then constant work / practise if you want to stay at the leading edge!

Then you have to get up on stage and perform, entertain, teach, educate, amuse, etc... not an easy task, and not that many people can do it...

Finally, whether you're tired, ill, in the mood or not, you have to dance your socks off with everyone, from Beginners, intermediate, advanced, hotshots etc... and keep a happy smile all night...

Just as well all of us (at least up here :wink: ) do it for love too!

The ultimate test, is that you can put anyone with an average collection of cds behind the decks and have an ok (regular) night... You can't do that on stage...

Franck.

P.S. Another spurious argument Gus :D Great DJs and Teachers contribute to the success of a night, neither are indispensable, as ultimately, convenience, location of venue and presence of friends will be far more influential!

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Franck
I'll take the bait Gus... I can't remember a time when DJs were paid less than 50 pounds for a night, and I don't think I'm exploiting any of my DJs... Well maybe the Tramp, but he enjoys it :wink:

I also disagree, all the DJs I know do it for the love of music, not for the money (though it doesn' t mean they don't need the money to feed their cd uying habit :D )Hmmm. Exploited?? I don't feel exploited at all. In fact, when I came to work for Franck, when we were talking about money, I asked for x each night. And he offered y. And y was more than x. (Sorry to all you algebra haters out there!).

I do DJ for the love of music, and dancing. But it doesn't half come in handy when it's time to pay the rent and put petrol in the car and buy food etc.

I did get 8 CDs this week too though, so the CD buying habit is also being kept well fed :D

Steve

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Gus
Would you at least agree with me that the teachers have a far easier deal?:devil: :devil: I think that teachers have it easier in one aspect.

I think that most teachers of at least average ability and above, very rarely get slagged off for teaching a class. It has to be something that the dancers really don't want, or can't get. You don't often hear much criticism of a standard evening class (workshops are a different matter of course), even when the teacher has had a bad night.

DJs are more liable to get bad comments made about them, if a punter doesn't really enjoy the night. And I'd guess that even if a person doesn't like a particular teacher, they'll still go to a venue (although, might turn up after the class is finished). If they don't like the style of the DJ, then they won't go to the venue (and tell all their friends).

Steve

[Franck]

Originally posted by TheTramp
And I'd guess that even if a person doesn't like a particular teacher, they'll still go to a venue (although, might turn up after the class is finished). If they don't like the style of the DJ, then they won't go to the venue (and tell all their friends). Of course *everyone* is an music expert, so of course they can criticise the DJ's choice of music, after all, it was very clear they didn't play their kind of music, so the DJ must be awful!

Conversely, very few people know what makes a good teacher (until it's too late to do anything about it) so poor teachers will continue teaching undeterred, and sometimes even unaware of the damage they cause... :sad:
I can understand beginners attending poorly taught classes as they don't know any better, but have always wondered why more experienced dancers did! :confused: even when by their own admission, the teaching is bad... Maybe it's because they feel they have nothing to learn any longer, so only go for the music / social aspect of the night, or maybe because they are the best dancers there and can really show off? :innocent: :really:

[CJ]

Originally posted by Gus
{ODA}Why should franchisees make a profit by exploiting DJs?

Franck, sir, master, my liege...

Is it ok to come and be exploited by you on 14th Feb. Playing far too long for not enough money, recognition or professional respect?

Please.:yum:

[Franck]

Originally posted by Ceroc Jock
Franck, sir, master, my liege...

Is it ok to come and be exploited by you on 14th Feb. Playing far too long for not enough money, recognition or professional respect? :yeah: Yeah... definitely... you can get the money, but recognition / professional respect, come on!!! don't push it! :wink:
But as it seems you might be slightly overworked, I have secured a second guest DJ to take the pressure off you :nice:

David from Ceroc Central will be doing a guest slot on the 14th, which will leave you ample time to concentrate on your cherry blossom! :devil: :flower:

[CJ]

Pure exploitation!:tears:

No respect.:sad:

That said, thanks petal!!

[Lounge Lizard]

I teach twice a week and (now) DJ three times + Saturday dances.

Teaching is far easier IMO

Research into moves...2-3 hours a week [if that]
Research into music.....over 10hours some weeks
ok I enjoy the music, but I have seen many venues suffer and even close cos the music is bad.
Many dancers do not bother with the lesson's. if the class is bad or boring no one moans much, if the music is not up to scratch...oh boy

Nurses....please do the comparison after, equipment, transport costs CD purchases etc. are taken into account.

Market forces in MJ dictate about £40 per night it seems, but other areas of dance pay between £80 & £100 a night.

I dont expect a MJ Saturday dance to compete with weddings rates etc. It would not be worth the organisers effort .

Would anyone be interested in a DJ training scheme?
pp

[Tiggerbabe]

Originally posted by Ceroc Jock
Franck, sir, master, my liege...

Is it ok to come and be exploited by you on 14th Feb
Hey CJ! Is it only Franck who gets to exploit you or can anyone join in? :wink: :innocent: :kiss:

[bigdjiver]

Originally posted by Gus
And with DJs that where its falling apart. Its long hours, hard work and, if you maintain your own CD collection, WAY underpaid. {ODA}Why should franchisees make a profit by exploiting DJs? Or Teachers, Venue managers, Taxi dancers? Not to mention us poor helpless addicted dancers that they have so unscrupulously enticed into their clutches?

MJ is this way because it works this way, so far.

Howver we are only just starting to work on the third level of the pyramid, with the first still only partly constructed. How high it gets depends on how well the builders work together.

TV money, and more could make a living. TV, and the other media, would want to see a united front.

[Will]

Originally posted by TheTramp
In fact, when I came to work for Franck, when we were talking about money, I asked for x each night. And he offered y. And y was more than x. (Sorry to all you algebra haters out there!).

That's not quite the full story is it Steve....

You asked for "x"
Franck offered "y do I have to pay you at all?"

[Emma]

Originally posted by Franck
The ultimate test, is that you can put anyone with an average collection of cds behind the decks and have an ok (regular) night... You can't do that on stage...Hmmm...I think you can - everyone has 'off' nights, but the ultimate result of doing either of those things on a regular basis is that people will get fed up - and if there's a better alternative somewhere else they will move on :sad:.
Originally posted by TheTramp
I think that most teachers of at least average ability and above, very rarely get slagged off for teaching a class. I disagree with this, I can think of quite a few occasions when someone has slagged off a teacher. The difference is that there is a culture of moaning directly to a DJ if you don't like the music they are playing.
Originally posted by Sheena
Hey CJ! Is it only Franck who gets to exploit you or can anyone join in?Ooh yeah baby...put me down for that one too!! :devil: :waycool: