Travelling Moves

[Stuart M]

Franck, are there many travelling moves in Ceroc (i.e. ones which start at X and end at Y)? I can only ever remember being taught about 4 over the past 3 years - and I've forgotten them all. :sad:

I know there are problems with teaching them, but it would be great to see some more often in the classes. When I'm trying to find the quieter parts of the dance floor I usually have to resort to "stretching out" a regular move, which never seems right.

SWM

[Franck]

Hi Stuart,

Ceroc / Jive is pretty much a static dance, that is you mostly dance in the same spot, however, there are quite a few travelling moves, though to tell you how many, I would have to check my Ceroc moves Bible and check each of the 500+ moves one by one...:sad:
Off the top of my head, any move involving a walk, is obviously a travelling move: The Basket walk, the Catapult walk, Sway walk, Neckbreak / Gay Gordon walk, etc...
There are also all the variations on the train and the travelling armjive.
There are a few more moves like the Columbian first move, which involve quite fancy footwork and syncopated rhythm as well as travelling...

I realise the above will not make much sense if you have not learnt the moves before, but it might jog your memory...

Cheers,

Franck.

[alex]

Originally posted by Stuart M
When I'm trying to find the quieter parts of the dance floor I usually have to resort to "stretching out" a regular move, which never seems right.


You have the right idea when to use travelling moves - to move to a different part of the floor.
I don't know if it is just in London, but too many Ceroc dancers will do travelling moves on a packed floor just because they know the move. Then they usually turn around an go back. Unfortunately while doing this, the expect everyone else to get out of their way, or just push their way through.

Strangely enough, if there is room, I find stretching standard moves look and feel better

[jiveoholic]

Hi Stward.
I have to agree with some comments that it can be upsetting when couples zoom across the floor as they are travelling regardless of other dancers. I use travelling moves as a cool way to find a bit of clearly floor! You might wish to have a look at www.jiveoholic.org.uk, register and then select moves with a "Promenade", 14 are listed, although only one is animated.
Richard

[jiveoholic]

There is nothing worse, than being in the process of spinning a lady in a somersault above my head and some man decides to do a double length columbian walk right under her landing zone!


JUST JOKING!

In all honesty - this IS the problem with air steps, the unexpected.

[Franck]

Originally posted by crjohnson
In all honesty - this IS the problem with air steps, the unexpected.

Indeed, it is almost impossible to anticipate other people's moves :really: Even when you are keeping an eye on the available space...

However I find that most 'clashes' occur during simple moves, an elbow here, a head there... :sick:
Probably not paying enough attention, but it is easy to get carried away by the right move / at the right time / with the right partner and forget the right space !:what:
Still a lot safer than Rugby / Football etc... and watching tv is bad for you. :wink:

Franck.

[alex]

Too many modern jive dancers seem to think ther only way to dance is to make everything (steps, leads, movements etc) as big as possible all the time. I think this is influenced by the teachers - they tend to demonstrate everything being 'big' to make sure the people at the back of the class can see.
We also get used to being crowded at either side, because we always learn in long lines. But at the same time we expect there to be room behind us, because the lines are not that close together.
So when you get a room full of beginners and intermediate dancers, they dance big and never look over their shoulder! It does make everything a bit too phyisical.

If you are on a crowded dance floor, just try shortening your arm (by bending your elbow - surgery is a bit too drastic). Keep it bent throughout the dance - never go to full extension. You will still be able to do every step you want, and should now have enough room to dance. It has other benefits - it looks better, makes it easier to lead, and it gives you another option when you hit a break.

Alex

[Franck]

Originally posted by alex
Too many modern jive dancers seem to think ther only way to dance is to make everything (steps, leads, movements etc) as big as possible all the time. I think this is influenced by the teachers - they tend to demonstrate everything being 'big' to make sure the people at the back of the class can see.
We also get used to being crowded at either side, because we always learn in long lines. But at the same time we expect there to be room behind us, because the lines are not that close together.
So when you get a room full of beginners and intermediate dancers, they dance big and never look over their shoulder! It does make everything a bit too phyisical.

If you are on a crowded dance floor, just try shortening your arm (by bending your elbow - surgery is a bit too drastic). Keep it bent throughout the dance - never go to full extension. You will still be able to do every step you want, and should now have enough room to dance. It has other benefits - it looks better, makes it easier to lead, and it gives you another option when you hit a break.

Alex Agreed. To add to the above, dancing smaller (ie with a bent elbow) will help you dance to faster records as you will have less distance to cover between beats.
Dancing big, can be very effective when the tempo is slower and you can take more time and more steps to complete the move with style.

Remember however that if you are trying to keep your elbow bent at all time, you must remember to keep the tension in the tip of your fingers (rather than in the arm / elbow / shoulder), this will give a much more natural look and feel to your dancing.

Franck.

[Josie_D]

Hi Franck,

You are quite right about how much better it looks to dance "small and neat", but as a lady this is also tied in with my ability to spin on the spot. If I were to start a spin and end up several feet away from my start point then the poor man leading me would have no choice but to stride across the dance floor to catch me as I finished. On the other hand, the ability to spin and end up where I started helps the man (and me) not to have to over-extend our arms. It looks and feels much better, and I'll be quite honest, it makes the dancing easier too.

By the way, I would thoroughly agree about keeping the tension in the fingertips (and arm muscles, by definition), though it can go a little awry if you and your man miss the catch when you are both travelling backwards at speed - there is not so much leeway as with a more solid handgrip!

[Franck]

Originally posted by Josie_D
Hi Franck,

You are quite right about how much better it looks to dance "small and neat", but as a lady this is also tied in with my ability to spin on the spot. If I were to start a spin and end up several feet away from my start point then the poor man leading me would have no choice but to stride across the dance floor to catch me as I finished. On the other hand, the ability to spin and end up where I started helps the man (and me) not to have to over-extend our arms. It looks and feels much better, and I'll be quite honest, it makes the dancing easier too.Hi Josie and welcome to the Forum.
Spinning (and turning) on the spot is an essential skill for women, and the one fault that causes most problems (Loss of balance etc...). It also makes it very difficult for your partner to keep up with you, and crucially, to plan sufficient floor space for moves, resulting in many clashes while dancing, even when the floor is not too busy. :(


By the way, I would thoroughly agree about keeping the tension in the fingertips (and arm muscles, by definition), though it can go a little awry if you and your man miss the catch when you are both travelling backwards at speed - there is not so much leeway as with a more solid handgrip! Yes, that does happen every so often, but as mentionned in another thread, each partner in the dance should more or less be in charge / control of their own momentum, ie you should not need the man to send you into a spin, and conversely, you should not need the man's hand to stop you either!
While the above might sound a bit drastic, it is a good habit to develop as it will make your dancing appear neater and more deliberate...

Cheers,

Franck.

[Josie_D]

Hi Franck,

In an ideal world yes, it should be possible to stop yourself without any help from your partner. The image I have in my head is of doing moves like a 'wurlitzer changing places' or similar, especially with a less experienced man. You end up with quite a lot of velocity there and a good clean catch is essential!

Josie

[Franck]

Originally posted by Josie_D
In an ideal world yes, it should be possible to stop yourself without any help from your partner. The image I have in my head is of doing moves like a 'wurlitzer changing places' or similar, especially with a less experienced man. You end up with quite a lot of velocity there and a good clean catch is essential!

Josie Well, I like to think of this forum as "an ideal world" :nice:
The "real" world of the dance floor is indeed a very different thing and there we need all the help and patience from our partners we can get.

:cheers:

Franck.

[jiveoholic]

Originally posted by Franck
Yes, that does happen every so often, but as mentionned in another thread, each partner in the dance should more or less be in charge / control of their own momentum, ie you should not need the man to send you into a spin, and conversely, you should not need the man's hand to stop you either!
While the above might sound a bit drastic, it is a good habit to develop as it will make your dancing appear neater and more deliberate...

Cheers,

Franck.

I (humbly) think that the lady does neet the man's hand to stop! If not, there will be no connection between us.

I would like to clarify this a bit. I propose three exagerated possibilities:

i) Men who provide a "pushing post" for the ladies to use to generate the energy for their own spin. The man's hand moves little, but both parties feel a force. The lady hardly uses her legs to spin. I find this feels the best. She IS in control of her motion, but through a stationary man's hand.

ii) Men who try and provide a pushing post (or not), but(and) the ladies just use their legs to spin and there is no force felt. Probably like dancing with a blow-up plastic doll in a vacuum.

iii) Men who grab the ladies hand and crank them round whether they want to or not. Not a pretty sight - probably feels bad too!

Personally, if I spin a lady, I expect her to absorb her own energy on my hand when I catch her. Naturally if I miss catching her then she will use her feet to stop. If she does it herself then I would rather dance with a blow-up variety. For me, jive is about tension and compression. I do admit though that many ladies use a mixture of feet and arms to adapt to the man's lead.

[Franck]

Originally posted by jiveoholic
I (humbly) think that the lady does neet the man's hand to stop! If not, there will be no connection between us.
You are quite right of course. To clarify what I was trying to say, the ladies do indeed need the men's energy to dance and in fact many moves would be nigh on impossible to dance otherwise (Try the Ballroom drop!). Unfortunately, it seems that a common fault when starting is to overly rely on the man pulling / pushing / stopping / etc... creating an imbalance in the tension / release.
What I normally recommend (usually during workshops, but occasionally on the dance floor) is to try dancing without holding hand. This seems impossible to start with, but can be good fun, and certainly makes you aware of your own balance (or lack thereof).
For most step backs / turns and spins, the lady should be able to stop herself. Once this is mastered and comfortable, she can then exagerate the turn / spin / twist by using her partner's hand to pull against.

I hope this clarifies a bit.

Franck.

[Will]

Franck, are there many travelling moves in Ceroc (i.e. ones which start at X and end at Y)? I can only ever remember being taught about 4 over the past 3 years - and I've forgotten them all. :sad:

I know there are problems with teaching them, but it would be great to see some more often in the classes. When I'm trying to find the quieter parts of the dance floor I usually have to resort to "stretching out" a regular move, which never seems right.

SWM
Stuart,

Without reading all the other posts (so sorry if this has already been covered) I'd say traveling returns are the easiest. I'd also recommend learning to lead the manhattan properly, you can then play with that move to drive your partner around the dance floor as easily as an empty shopping trolley.

[Dan]

I'd also recommend learning to lead the manhattan properly, you can then play with that move to drive your partner around the dance floor as easily as an empty shopping trolley.


Fine choice of words there, Will!


.

[drathzel]

you can then play with that move to drive your partner around the dance floor as easily as an empty shopping trolley.

what if it has a gimpy wheel?

[DavidB]

what if it has a gimpy wheel?Official Warning.

THis is your first official warning from the Forum Hotshot Police. According to Section 5, Clause 2, Sub-clause 4, paragraph 2 of the 'Stop Hotshots In Their Tracks (S.H.*.T.T.) act:
"You are not allowed to select partners based on their ability to follow in a straight line."

Future infractions will cause the following punishments:
- Being forced to dance away from the stage
- Having your wardrobe designed by Mr McGregor
- Having "No Thanks" surgically removed from your vocabulary

[MartinHarper]

My current favourite travelling move is to lead a return, put some tension in my lead arm, and walk straight at my partner, so I'm leading her to walk straight back. It's got a nice feel, it zips across the dance floor, and the "step step step step" footwork is very MJ-ish. Also, I get to discover if my partner trusts me... :-)

Elsewhere (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?p=112161), David said of the Columbian:


It's a lovely move, but I'm not sure if it's ever going to be natural to lead, it's so much choreographed.

I've never come anywhere near leading a Columbian in freestyle, but I figured that was largely an experience/ability thing. Is it leadable? Has anyone here managed to lead it (or follow it) in freestyle?

[David Bailey]

My current favourite travelling move is to lead a return, put some tension in my lead arm, and walk straight at my partner, so I'm leading her to walk straight back. It's got a nice feel, it zips across the dance floor, and the "step step step step" footwork is very MJ-ish. Also, I get to discover if my partner trusts me... :-)
That sounds like a good one - I do that, but just for a forward-back step, rather than a travel. I presume your first foot forward is your left, follower's right (hence the need for the tension)?
As for the Columbian, we'll have to watch ESG and ZW do their thing next time to see it done in freestyle :)

Given enough space, I'd agree that most moves can be adapted to be travelling moves. For that matter, travelling moves can be done in a more-or-less static space :) However, it is annoying to see dancers mechanically go through all of a choreographed travelling step, when you know they're coming towards you in a few seconds "on the reverse", and you need to keep an eye on them... OTOH, I find that dancers standing still are actually harder to work round than those moving around, weird that...

[Bill]

What is irritating - and potentially dangerous is when couples travel when they should be doing more or less 'static' moves and so it becomes impossible to work out where they are going.

Not sure why but lots of dancers now travel round almost in huge circles regardless of the moves and so bump into others casuing bumps and bruises. And as someone mentioned earlier - the leader who does a walking move then goes into reverse without any idea of who or what is behind him :mad: :angry:

Awarness of space is obviously something that a whole workshop can be devoted to !

[cheeks]

What is irritating - and potentially dangerous is when couples travel when they should be doing more or less 'static' moves and so it becomes impossible to work out where they are going.

Not sure why but lots of dancers now travel round almost in huge circles regardless of the moves and so bump into others casuing bumps and bruises. And as someone mentioned earlier - the leader who does a walking move then goes into reverse without any idea of who or what is behind him :mad: :angry:

Awarness of space is obviously something that a whole workshop can be devoted to !



:yeah: :yeah:

[David Bailey]

Not sure why but lots of dancers now travel round almost in huge circles regardless of the moves and so bump into others casuing bumps and bruises.
It's all this ballroom lessons influence, I knew nothing good would come of it :).
I haven't seen much travelling around the floor in my local places, having said that...

[JoC]

Not sure why but lots of dancers now travel round almost in huge circles regardless of the moves and so bump into others casuing bumps and bruises. And as someone mentioned earlier - the leader who does a walking move then goes into reverse without any idea of who or what is behind him

Any top tips for what a lady might do to encourage her partner to dance a bit smaller or look where they're going a bit more...? I'm sure I've probably danced big when I shouldn't but generally the more I dance the more aware of space I get and I think I'm getting the hanging of dancing 'neat' when necessary.

On a packed dance floor recently I was led forward by my partner in a walking move which went fine. We then started reversing as described above without my partner looking. Unsurprisingly the space behind had filled instantly and I stopped the move backwards (because we definitely would have crashed), which seemed to be met with a bit of confusion (or something...). Is there a tactful way for a follower to limit moves in the name of safety without spoiling the dance and coming over all power crazy, or is it a case of stuff it, if someone isn't going to look they can like it or lump it? I think I maybe just answered my own question...

Don't mind taking some of the responsibility but don't want to p off all my partners!

[El Salsero Gringo]

Unsurprisingly the space behind had filled instantly and I stopped the move backwards (because we definitely would have crashed), which seemed to be met with a bit of confusion (or something...).Sounds about right to me. I'd much rather be pulled up short by my partner than dance into someone. You can always say "you were about to crash into that couple there..." if he looks a bit confused.

In ballroom, both dancers share the responsibility for collision avoidance. If the lady sees a conflicting couple, say over the man's shoulder, she squeezes his hand (presumably the harder the squeeze, the greater the danger.) In MJ, how about using the same technique?

In order to get your lead to 'dance smaller', you can always ask him: "I love your style, but could we dance smaller please because I'm worried about hitting another couple..."

Or, just kick him hard in the shins while he's looking elsewhere then swear blind it was another couple.

[JoC]

Or, just kick him hard in the shins while he's looking elsewhere then swear blind it was another couple.

Nice, I'll try that one next time... just nobody tell on me, aha probably not many people know who I am on the forum anyway, problem solved!

Does anyone have the username 'Hacker' yet...

[JoC]

And thankyou for the other advice too, too new to the forum to get cheeky :blush: .

[David Bailey]

Any top tips for what a lady might do to encourage her partner to dance a bit smaller or look where they're going a bit more...?
Very good question - as a follower, the influence you have over the leader is limited tho :sad:



<snip> Unsurprisingly the space behind had filled instantly and I stopped the move backwards (because we definitely would have crashed), which seemed to be met with a bit of confusion (or something...).
Exactly the right thing to do!


Don't mind taking some of the responsibility but don't want to p off all my partners!
Good dancing technique will never put of (:)) people you want to dance with :whistle: