Eye Contact

[Pete]

I can do, just about, the beginners moves. I can, sort of almost, do my 2 intermediate moves. I occasionally dance in time with the music. Once I nearly hit a break. But the one thing I'm really struggling with at the moment is eye contact when dancing.

Basically I either find it very difficult to look at the woman (particularly if she is pretty) so do the whole dance looking at her hands/my feet. Or occasionally I'll dance with a woman who gives lots of eye contact and smiles a great deal at which point I feel I must reciprocate and I end up with this fixed manic looking grin on my face. I think it's more of a shyness/etiquette thing than anything else - I don't NEED to look at my feet.

This may be symptomatic of my lack of social skills generally:( but I'm wondering if anyone else has ever encountered this problem? :sorry

Pete

[JamesGeary]

Eye contact you can just do. Play a game where you look at her pupil then her iris color, then the whites, then a the bridge of her nose, then her eyelashes. Then do it again but change your sequence. Then keep doing this trying to do a different sequence each time, mathematically there are 32 of them. It'll probably take 8 tracks until you can finish without making a mistake.

Only smile if you feel like it.

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Pete
I can do, just about, the beginners moves. I can, sort of almost, do my 2 intermediate moves. I occasionally dance in time with the music. Once I nearly hit a break. But the one thing I'm really struggling with at the moment is eye contact when dancing.

I remember this only too well, though in my case the problem was looking wayyyyyy too serious, rather than not looking at all.

Learning to do something new is usually an experience that brings its traumas (except in James' case - SLAP :devil: ).

To start with, there is a lot to think about, and the basics take up all your concentration - there is very little spare capacity to finesse what you do.

Later, as the basics get easier, they require less of your concentration, and you have more space to think about other things than the mechanics (eg eye contact, smiling, what to do with the spare arm, musicality etc)

If, at the moment, you're really dancing in time with the music only some of the time, I would suggest that you stop attempting intermediate moves and hitting breaks for the time being. It is far more important to dance in time, than it is to dance complicated moves.

The good news, of course, is that if you know when you're not in time with the music, it's overload/unfamiliarity that's the problem, not an inability to hear the rhythm.

Practise dancing simple beginners moves in freestyle until you can do them smoothly, in time with the music, with a clear but unforced lead, and as it gets easier, you'll find that looking at your partner also becomes easier quite naturally - because you're starting to think about dancing with her, rather than how to connect a comb to a hatchback.

Chris

PS Keep posting. And don't pay any attention to these dance god oiks that say "oh that, yeah, that's easy, just do it..." :devil:

[Neil]

Originally posted by Pete
so do the whole dance looking at her hands Can't you find anything more interesting to look at? :devil:

Seriously though, the question of eye contact can sometimes be a little tricky. Too little, and it looks like you being aloof; too much, and it can start feeling a bit weird (in some cases, depending on the music and your partner, you can't have too much eye contact, but that's another matter). You might want to look at your partner briefly, smile, then look away for a while, then look back at her etc. etc. Whatever feels comfortable for you - there are no hard and fast rules.

As ChrisA rightly says, these things become easier once the moves are "hardwired" into your brain and you have some spare mental capacity for all the little things that actually make dancing fun.

Oh, and I have also learned that if you spend the entire dance looking round the room eyeing up all the other talent, this is considered something of a 'faux pas' (chicks, eh?) :devil:

:cheers:

Neil

[Chris]

James' suggestions are ones I'd support. It's worth getting into to different degrees but without worrying too much about it at beginners stage.

I've got some simple exercises for it you can try if you like - but PM me. If I go on about kinetic imagery on teh forum it will p*ss some people off :eek: :rofl:

[Minnie M]

I was told that eye contact also keeps the dancing frame which will help to become a great dancer

(hard to do all the time, without the guy thinking I am coming on to him, yes even me :blush: )

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Neil
Oh, and I have also learned that if you spend the entire dance looking round the room eyeing up all the other talent, this is considered something of a 'faux pas' (chicks, eh?) :devil:

Not only that, but on a busy dance floor, you're expected to know where everyone else around you is, without looking at them...

A month or two ago on a heaving floor and muppets all around, I was having to look around quite a bit, so that I could use the spaces...

... and she accused me of eyeing up the talent :tears:

I explained... but I wasn't convinced she believed me :tears:

Chris

[Yogi_Bear]

Originally posted by ChrisA
Not only that, but on a busy dance floor, you're expected to know where everyone else around you is, without looking at them...

A month or two ago on a heaving floor and muppets all around, I was having to look around quite a bit, so that I could use the spaces...

... and she accused me of eyeing up the talent :tears:

I explained... but I wasn't convinced she believed me :tears:

Chris

I would say that in modern jive eye contact is not expected of beginners and is not specifically encouraged - which if so is a pity. I agree that the best course of action is to use a repertoire of simple beginners moves, clearly executed and in time to the music. Simple moves well led must be better than showly or difficult moves badly led. You can easily develop eye contact at the very start of the dance. A good time to look away is when you need to check the space on the floor from a safety angle. As you become more confident with the moves you will find that establishing a connection with your partner comes more easily. And believe me, it's worth it for the pleasure of good eye contact with your partner, though I accept that for relative beginners that may be a hard point to put across.

:)

[fruitcake]

Originally posted by Pete

This may be symptomatic of my lack of social skills generally:( but I'm wondering if anyone else has ever encountered this problem? :sorry

Pete

Well Pete, not that I'm an expert, I'm still fairly new, what I would say is see what the lady is doing, if she is smiling at you and looking at you can can reciprocate occasionally. When I first started, some of the guys fixed their eyes on you the WHOLE time without smiling, though I believe its because they were concentrating on the moves, and watching what the woman is doing.When I was a beginner I felt freaked, but now I'm used to it and generally smile at them,but after a few weeks I didnt even think about it.
Fruitcake

[Lory]

I'm afraid, I think it just looks plain rude (whether it's intended or not, is another issue) not to look and smile occasionally, I find it quite off putting, if someone constantly looks over my shoulder or at the floor, it feels to me, like they would rather NOT be dancing with me.

You know, you could actually explain to your partner, you've not been dancing very long and you have to concentrate really hard.....If someone say's that to me, I usually melt and forgive them a million sins and just give words of encouragement! :nice:

I suppose it's just like talking to someone (and looking at them), some people find it easy, some don't! But people who don't look at you, do tend to look a bit shifty or disinterested!
Sorry, just my opinion!:sorry:

Mind you, theres a BIG difference between 'looking' and 'staring,' oh dear, how DOES one begin to explain????:tears:

By the way James, What colour are MY eyes then?
:rofl:

[DavidB]

I probably make eye contact about 4 or 5 times a night - typically when I'm not leading anything. I might look at the lady's face a lot more, but that is different to eye contact. I find eye contact can be uncomfortable.

Usually I watch to see what her body is doing (so I can figure out what might work next), or I am looking around to try to find space.

David

[Boomer]

Originally posted by Lory
...Mind you, theres a BIG difference between 'looking' and 'staring,' oh dear, how DOES one begin to explain????:tears:
...

Oh that's simple enough..sort of. Staring is the look in Charles Manson's eyes (unfortunately I suffer from this :tears: ), and looking is the look in Catherine McCormack's (the woman from Braveheart and Born Romantic - phroar :yum: ).

:grin:

[Lynn]

Originally posted by Neil
Oh, and I have also learned that if you spend the entire dance looking round the room eyeing up all the other talent, this is considered something of a 'faux pas' (chicks, eh?) :devil:
Neil

:rofl: Very true!!

I’m still a beginner too, and still working through a lot of these things. I think no eye contact at all during a dance is not good, even if you are a beginner, as it makes the person feel you are not dancing with them, even the odd smile and glance is good.

Does anyone else find some moves suit more eye contact than others? We were doing a wrap walk around thingy (sorry, don’t know the proper name, as I said, still a beginner!) and it seemed to work really well if we gazed into each other’s eyes… :wink:

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by ChrisA
PS Keep posting. And don't pay any attention to these dance god oiks that say "oh that, yeah, that's easy, just do it..." :devil: Oh that. Yeah, that's easy. Just do it.

(Sorry, had to) :D

Steve

[Pete]

Thanks for all the advice and tips. :cheers:

I'll experiment a bit on Tuesday at the Jive Bar (or is Tuesday that place in Gt Portland St?). I'll be the hesitant looking bloke dancing with his eyes tightly shut.:wink:

Pete

[Jon]

Originally posted by ChrisA
and she accused me of eyeing up the talent :tears:

I explained... but I wasn't convinced she believed me :tears:

Chris
I accused Taz of doing this last night, I was convinced she was looking at this new young guy with muscles as there were lots of sideways glances when she should have been looking lovingly into my eyes. :wink:

Still not sure I believe her explaination :hug:

[Minnie M]

woops - sorry changed my mind and too late to delete now!

[Gadget]

If you find eye contact hard, or want to scan the dance floor {for moves :innocent:} with out 'breaking' the flow of the dance, then utilise more moves that have the lady's back to you, or you have your back to them - just make sure that you watch them either enter into it, or exit the move to maintain the look of "interest". (baskets, yo-yos, man-spins...)
I also use the trick of looking where the 'center' of my partner will be when turning her; ie looking down to the right before wrapping in.
Another one is following the 'lead' hand and making it 'big'.

I also find that I grin at the end of any 'tricky' move {not that it's intentional} - either it's a "cool it worked!" grin :waycool: or an "almost screwed that one up!" grin :grin: or even a "we got away with it!?" grin :wink:

[Boomer]

Originally posted by Pete
...I'll experiment a bit on Tuesday at the Jive Bar (or is Tuesday that place in Gt Portland St?). I'll be the hesitant looking bloke dancing with his eyes tightly shut.:wink:
Pete
Tuesday would be:

**ISH** 229 Great Portland St, W1W
New Tuesday night in W1 starting 6th January 2004
Cliff & Penny teaching at this modern air conditioned hall with a beautiful sprung floor.

If you open your etes long enough you may see someone lurking in the corner with a beer...that'll be me :) If you see me come over and say hi and we can regale ourselves with converserations of dance-floor nerves and inadequacies :grin:

Hope to see you there...actually, hope to be there!

Steve.

[Pete]

Originally posted by Boomer
Tuesday would be:

**ISH** 229 Great Portland St, W1W
New Tuesday night in W1 starting 6th January 2004
Cliff & Penny teaching at this modern air conditioned hall with a beautiful sprung floor.



In that case I'll be the one with his eyes tightly shut energetically jumping up and down to test the springiness of the 'sprung floor'. Boing! Boing!

And hopefully we'll be able to have a chat about the futility of it all:cheers:

[Lory]

Originally posted by Pete
In that case I'll be the one with his eyes tightly shut energetically jumping up and down to test the springiness of the 'sprung floor'. Boing! Boing!

Ever seen the Magic roundabout?:D

[spindr]

I think eye-contact really helps (as does smiling) --- other than collision avoidance and the odd pose --- why wouldn't you be looking at/around your partner.

On the (sadly) rare occasions that it happens, a shared focussed gaze can almost act as an extra virtual lead. And if both partners focus on each other and circle around, then you'll find that the rest of the dancefloor will just fade away (okay, actually it'll blur due to parallax and other optical effects, but why spoil the romance ) -- at least until one of you gets dizzy.

SpinDr.

[Jayne]

Originally posted by JamesGeary
Eye contact you can just do. Play a game where you look at her pupil then her iris color, then the whites, then a the bridge of her nose, then her eyelashes. Then do it again but change your sequence. Then keep doing this trying to do a different sequence each time, mathematically there are 32 of them. It'll probably take 8 tracks until you can finish without making a mistake.

Only smile if you feel like it.
mmmm... do you still do this James?

Having danced with you, I'm just wondering... (who said anything about paranoia???)

J :timid mouse eyes:

[Pete]

Originally posted by Lory
Ever seen the Magic roundabout?:D
'Time for Bed!' ;) :D

[Lory]

Look into my eyes.......I know it's scary but the more u do it the easier it gets! :D :D :rofl:

[spindr]

Originally posted by Lory
Look into my eyes.......I know it's scary but the more u do it the easier it gets! :D :D :rofl:

Wow, definitely got to get in to London more ;)

SpinDr

[Pete]

Originally posted by Lory
Look into my eyes.......I know it's scary but the more u do it the easier it gets! :D :D :rofl:

Eeek!!:what:

[Emma]

meep! :S

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Lory
Look into my eyes.......I know it's scary but the more u do it the easier it gets! :D :D :rofl:
Next time we dance, Lory, I will be looking closely - to see if you really do have one brown eye and one green eye :waycool:

Interestingly (to me at least), as the page with your pic came up, I saw the pic first (cos it kinda grabs the attention :wink: ), and thought "that's Lory" - well before I saw your name at the side.

Chris

[Minnie M]

Originally posted by Lory
Look into my eyes.......I know it's scary but the more u do it the easier it gets! :D :D :rofl:

Wow Lory :eek: that is scary - but also very beautiful :nice: have you got David Bowie eyes :waycool:

[spindr]

Originally posted by Minnie M
Wow Lory :eek: that is scary - but also very beautiful :nice: have you got David Bowie eyes :waycool:

"Betty Davis Eyes" surely :)

SpinDr.

[Chris]

Originally posted by spindr
"Bette Davis Eyes" surely :)
SpinDr.

Yes - and a compliment in case anyone didn't spot the reference to the famous song by Kim Carnes (http://www.bombshells.com/gallery/davis/davis_eyes.php) (the song was also taken as a warm compliment by Ms Davis!)

[Minnie M]

Originally posted by Chris
Yes - and a compliment in case anyone didn't spot the reference to the famous song by Kim Carnes (http://www.bombshells.com/gallery/davis/davis_eyes.php) (the song was also taken as a warm compliment by Ms Davis!)

:wink: methinks The Hon Chris has a thing for blonds :wink: have you met the lovely Lory yet - she IS a bit of a boombshell :really:

[Gadget]

mmmmmmm... :blush: :yum: Lory:If we ever dance, would you take offense if we just did some slow, close arm jives? :innocent:

[Lory]

Originally posted by ChrisA
Next time we dance, Lory, I will be looking closely - to see if you really do have one brown eye and one green eye :waycool:

Chris
Yes I really DO have one brown and one green eye! its not so noticable at night as my pupils need to be quite small to get the full effect (the green ones quite dark round the edges) Incidently, as you know, I laugh a lot and screw my eyes up (not attrative) so you'll have to tell me something very serious before :rolleyes:u look! :rofl:


Originally posted by Minnie M
Wow Lory :eek: that is scary - but also very beautiful :nice: have you got David Bowie eyes :waycool:
Thankyou Minnie! Re David Bowie...he's actually got different sized pupils, people always think his eyes are different colours though.:hug:


Originally posted by Gadget
If we ever dance, would you take offense if we just did some slow, close arm jives? :innocent:

Love too, dancing slow is 'my thang!':wink: :rofl:

[bobgadjet]

Originally posted by Pete
I can do, just about, the beginners moves. I can, sort of almost, do my 2 intermediate moves. I occasionally dance in time with the music. Once I nearly hit a break. But the one thing I'm really struggling with at the moment is eye contact when dancing.

Basically I either find it very difficult to look at the woman (particularly if she is pretty) so do the whole dance looking at her hands/my feet. Or occasionally I'll dance with a woman who gives lots of eye contact and smiles a great deal at which point I feel I must reciprocate and I end up with this fixed manic looking grin on my face. I think it's more of a shyness/etiquette thing than anything else - I don't NEED to look at my feet.

This may be symptomatic of my lack of social skills generally:( but I'm wondering if anyone else has ever encountered this problem? :sorry

Pete
Don't worry Pete, it will ALL come with timne, but at least you are not looking at OTHER women, so you are on the right road.

Keep at it, and just be cool :cool:

[bobgadjet]

Originally posted by Lory
it feels to me, like they would rather NOT be dancing with me.



WHO in their right mind would rather NOT dance with you ? :innocent:
:kiss::kiss:

C U 2moro I hope :nice:

[bobgadjet]

Originally posted by Lory

If someone say's that to me, I usually melt and forgive them a million sins and just give words of encouragement! :nice:

:rofl:

That'll take care of less than half of mine then ! ! !:devil:
but I s'pose it's a start :rofl:

[Penfold]

Originally posted by Pete

Basically I either find it very difficult to look at the woman (particularly if she is pretty) so do the whole dance looking at her hands/my feet. Or occasionally I'll dance with a woman who gives lots of eye contact and smiles a great deal at which point I feel I must reciprocate and I end up with this fixed manic looking grin on my face. I think it's more of a shyness/etiquette thing than anything else - I don't NEED to look at my feet.


Pete

Know how you feel, I had this same eye contact problem when I first started. Ended up thinking of looking at my partner and smiling as a move just like a first move etc, otherwise I ended up not looking at my partner the whole dance... and like all moves the more you practice the more comfortable and natural it feels.

[Tazmanian Devil]

Originally posted by JamesGeary
Eye contact you can just do. Play a game where you look at her pupil then her iris color, then the whites, then a the bridge of her nose, then her eyelashes. Then do it again but change your sequence. Then keep doing this trying to do a different sequence each time,




STOP!!! Your making me dizzy!!!!! :rofl: :rofl:

[Chris]

Originally posted by Minnie M
:wink: methinks The Hon Chris has a thing for blonds :wink: have you met the lovely Lory yet - she IS a bit of a boombshell :really:

As far as dancers go, I have a thing for women - all women are equally special - young, old, blonde, brunette, redhead.

Lory certainly looks quite a boombshell from her photo but I'm sorry to say I apparently danced with her at Bognor without recognising each other :(

On a personal note, try as I might to be unbiased, my long term friends who have known me for many years wind me up about "if she's not a blonde she won't last." Aesthetically I think red hair looks great on a woman, and on the dance floor it's more to do with what she does with it, whether it's in beautiful condition / compliments her features etc, but off the dance floor I suspect there's something at the genetic level that primes some men to react to blonde hair (real or dyed) and others to brunette. We're attracted to certain genotypes. But if I was a woman I'd dye my hair blonde if it wasn't already blonde - see? I can do superficial . . .!

Didn't want to duck the question but you sure put me on the spot Minnie!

[Lory]

Originally posted by Chris
but I'm sorry to say I apparently danced with her at Bognor without recognising each other :(

Did we??:confused: :blush:

[bobgadjet]

Originally posted by Chris

Lory certainly looks quite a boombshell from her photo

Bigger and BETTER than the photo.
If you had danced with her you would know it, and would not have forgotten it, so i guess you have that pleasure (and it will be) to come :D

[Chris]

Errrm yes, so Amanda told me I think. Main dance floor. This is after I had looked out for you at Hipsters and given practically every blonde girl in the place funny looks to see if she had one eye different colour to the other:confused: :sorry

[Sheepman]

Originally posted by Gadget
would you take offense if we just did some slow, close arm jives? Of course the way to double/triple the eye contact effect is to dance West Coast Swing, where for much more of the dance you are facing your partner, and you have to worry far less about what other dancers are doing around you (assuming they're also West Coasting).

Did someone say you can have too much eye contact? :really: Is this possible, for those 4 minutes you are in love with your partner (and the music of course), how could you not gaze into her eyes? Of course there are times when it gets too intense, and you have to look away, but checking for space normally covers that. Hmmm, can't remember what I do when I'm dancing with a man, perhaps Andy will do me the honour . . .

Other tips that I've heard (along the lines of James') if you struggle with this are: focus just past her eyes (going boss eyed isn't recommended!): focus on the bridge of her nose, or just above her eyes, ie basically look in the right direction, even if you can't look into her eyes.

I do wish I could remember eye colour(s) (the plural is for Lory), after I've danced with someone, I guess I'm just concentrating too much on the dance for it to register. The same applies to dress, it's extremely rare for me to be able to remember what someone was wearing at a dance, but I'm much more likely to be able to remember the track that was played, certain moves that went well or badly and so on. Perhaps there's another thread here?

Greg

[bobgadjet]

Originally posted by Sheepman
focus on the bridge of her nose, or just above her eyes
Greg
...or an ear, or a cheek, or her forehead.....

If you do that you might give her a complex and she thinks she's got something nasty on her face, like a zit maybe:D (or hairgel ! :rofl: )
then it's her off the dancefloor to find the nearst mirror I would think:)

[Chris]

Just focus on something wonderful - it can be in your imagination.

[Pammy]

Originally posted by Sheepman
for those 4 minutes you are in love with your partner

:what: :blush: I must be doing it wrong then...

I'm only ever in love with half of my partners :wink: :whistle:

[Rachel]

Originally posted by Pammy
:what: :blush: I must be doing it wrong then...

I'm only ever in love with half of my partners :wink: :whistle: The top or bottom half???
R x

[JamesGeary]

Originally posted by Neil

As ChrisA rightly says, these things become easier once the moves are "hardwired" into your brain and you have some spare mental capacity for all the little things that actually make dancing fun.

Heres a thought. How about "hardwiring" in smiling and eye contact, then you have some spare mental capacity for the moves!

[Bill]

At a tango lesson on MOnday the teacher informed us that it was really 'bad form' to look at your partner while daning and if anyone tried to keep eye conyact with her she' probably walk off the dance floor :sick:

partly it would seem because the leader should be looking at what's going on around them and possibly because it might be considered rude to stare at the follower.

Pointed out that in jive we've been discusisng the point that it's rude not to keep at least some eye contact - although the leader should certainly be keeping an eye on what's going on around them !!!!:D

[Jayne]

Originally posted by Bill
At a tango lesson on MOnday the teacher informed us that it was really 'bad form' to look at your partner while daning
:what: But Tango is just soooo sexy when you look at the girl in your arms at some point in the dance. She doesn't know what she's missing out on Bill!

J :wink:

[Yogi_Bear]

Originally posted by Jayne
:what: But Tango is just soooo sexy when you look at the girl in your arms at some point in the dance. She doesn't know what she's missing out on Bill!

J :wink:

The point about dancing tango is that you will usually be in a fairly close hold with your partner and looking over their right shoulder so (as a leader) you can see where youe are taking your partner (she is commonly stepping backwards, except with rotary type moves).

In modern jive you are commonly standing further from your partner much of the time in an open hold of some sort. Keeping some degree of eye contact is much easier and safer- and is to be encouraged.

[Pete]

Based on my extensive experience of tango (ie, 2 lessons):rolleyes: I thought the idea was that the absence of eye contact created a kind of tension - more mystery, less full-on and all that?

[jivecat]

Originally posted by Minnie M
I was told that eye contact also keeps the dancing frame which will help to become a great dancer

(hard to do all the time, without the guy thinking I am coming on to him, yes even me :blush: )


I am fully understanding of the difficulty that beginners have with eye contact and don't expect it of them. Of the others, I try and work out if I think the lack of eye contact is due to shyness, which I can forgive, or because my partner is a supercilious & discourteous person whose attention is elsewhere, which I certainly can't. How do I tell the difference? Not sure, really. Intuition.

What I'm increasingly beginning to notice is how incomplete a dance feels without eye contact, even if technically it was otherwise a good dance. And it's not just the social aspect, important though that is. I find that concentration is a key element in dancing well and good eye contact helps me to focus on my partner and concentrate better. If any peripheral event snaps that concentration, then, whoops, I start falling over my own feet!

I also feel that eye contact forms part of the lead; if the guy won't look at me I always feel a sense of insecurity about what I should be doing even if other signals are O.K. I think that by looking at your partner you pick up & transmit all sorts of subliminal signals about speed, direction, intention, musical interpretation etc. which enhance a dance technically as well as socially.

I think the need for eye contact is taught in Ceroc. It's regularly mentioned in beginner's classes. The usual reponse is that the crowd start shifting their feet and giggling nervously!

[DavidB]

Originally posted by jivecat
I also feel that eye contact forms part of the lead There is a major visual element to the lead. I'm not talking about signals for particular moves (eg sticking the little finger of my right hand in my ear whilst standing on one leg and winking madly means 'First Move' :sick: ). I am thinking about reinforcing the physical lead with your body position, and figuring out the options for the next move by your partners current body position.

The easiest way to do this is to watch your partner's body.

But if you keep eye contact, then you have to still be aware of what the rest of your partner's body is doing. I find this difficult - the eye contact seems to get in the way of the visual lead.

For my way of dancing, there is a time and a place for eye contact. Similarly there is a time and a place for looking at the audience. This 'time and place' is not when you are actively leading your partner. But for me the visual lead is very important. Sometimes that is all I do. For other people it may be different.

Obviously if you don't look at your partner at all then you lose this visual lead. This is a far more common problem than too much eye contact!


David

[Gadget]

I don't think that I do much "eye contact" when dancing... at least not that I'm aware of: Combs, leans and a few UCP moves perhaps. And I normally try to catch the lady's eye coming out of a freespin or turn/return. {unless I go to the opposite extreme and purposefully look away}
I find that with a lot of "drawing in" moves I look at where I want the lady to be, then watch her flow into the space. Most of the time I am looking at floor space and my partner as a whole - not only does it make good dancing sense, but it looks more dramatic if the head has a long way to turn to look at your partner.

I also find that smiling goes so well with eye contact: If I catch my partner's eye, I smile- natural reaction. I normally get a smile back. :waycool:

This form eye-contact is also a good way to communicate with your partner on how well a dance is going; more than once I have looked confused or amazed. If my partner smiles back - a good sign. If they don't - I'm not doing something right, so concentrate more. If they grimice - I've just screwed up, wrap them in and see what's wrong. If they look bored - concentrate more, throw in a few knotted moves and look again. If they laugh - it's close to a smile, keep going and hope that it's not at your expense. If they look amazed - try very hard to remember what you just did, and try it in the next dance. If they stick their tongue out* - they want to play, give them space and mirror them or do some showey moves...

* or raise an eyebrow, or look mischevous, or...

[JamesGeary]

Originally posted by DavidB

The easiest way to do this is to watch your partner's body.

If we must.

[Jayne]

Going off on my wee tango tangent again (sorry all MJers who don't care about tango...)

You're right - normally when you're dancing tango you're too close to form eye contact with your partner. There are rare opportunities though, like in ochos it can be really sexy to bring your eyes up and look at your partner as you slink across in front of him...

The other thing I was thinking of was a workshop I did about 18 months ago. There was an excess of women so we all had to be a man at some point during the day. As part of the workshop we were covering some of the aspects of lead and follow. To encourage the ladies to follow without using visual clues from where the guy's feet were we had to close our eyes. I remember doing this as a "man" and looking down at the girl I was leading. I was *completely* taken aback by how sensual, empowering and priviledged it is to have a gentle female form curled up in your arms with her eyes closed and completely trusting you to lead her around the room without doing any harm to her (either by abusing her trust or by crashing her into things). I don't think I would have really felt that if I hadn't looked at my partner. That was a real turning point for me for seeing tango as more than a technically demanding dance!

J :nice:

[Yogi_Bear]

Yes, absolutely right about the ochos, and it's quite common in tango for the follower to close her eyes and rely on the leader to manoeuvre her safely. Of course it also helps both partners learn to use and follow the non-visual cues.

Dancing tango is a very valuable complement to dancing MJ, in my opinion....

[MartinHarper]

Ended up thinking of looking at my partner and smiling as a move just like a first move etc,

That's a lovely idea - very simple, does the job. If you're lucky your partner will take it as an opportunity to practice wiggling, while you try to think of the next move. :)

[Bangers & Mash]

What I'm increasingly beginning to notice is how incomplete a dance feels without eye contact, even if technically it was otherwise a good dance. And it's not just the social aspect, important though that is. I find that concentration is a key element in dancing well and good eye contact helps me to focus on my partner and concentrate better. If any peripheral event snaps that concentration, then, whoops, I start falling over my own feet!

I also feel that eye contact forms part of the lead; if the guy won't look at me I always feel a sense of insecurity about what I should be doing even if other signals are O.K. I think that by looking at your partner you pick up & transmit all sorts of subliminal signals about speed, direction, intention, musical interpretation etc. which enhance a dance technically as well as socially.


I always use eye contact as an integral part of the dance as they can so reflect the dance and how it is going.

I also find it very difficult to dance with a girl who can't or won't make eye contact. The won'ts are the worst as that attitude seems to be reflected in the dance technique as well.

For the shy people or people who find it awkward - smile as you look into each others eyes because smiling eyes are always pretty no matter how ugly you are.

Eye contact can also be as intrusive as invading you partners dance space, so I would suggest make occasional eye contact at first if you feel uncomfortable and if that is okay - then try a little more.

I have wrecked my brains trying to think of the difference between staring and making eye contact. I think the difference is the smile. If you don't smile as you make eye contact you will find yourself staring.

It can also be fun and a little mischievous. If you feel awkward, then be mischievous (not sleazy) with it - most memorable eye contacts for me were

1 - the bulging eyes as the girl went into a dip
2 - the girls eyes rolling (mocking) as I screwed up a move
3 - the little girl lost look as I completely didn't lead her into the next move
4 - the devastating wink from the gorgeous girl who winked at me as we finished the dance with a dip (not a come-on wink but a mischievous wink). I still melted tho' :nice:

[RogerR]

Learning to do the steps right is a small part of learning to dance, then you have to learn to dance WITH a partner. then it all slots so neatly into place. Eye contact comes with practise. its a feedback system If your partner looks stressed happy bored or excited the eyes will tell you, and you modify your plans for the nekt few bars accordingly.

[jivecat]

Eye contact can also be as intrusive as invading you partners dance space, so I would suggest make occasional eye contact at first if you feel uncomfortable and if that is okay - then try a little more.

Only time I can think of this happening is when blokes give you that intense, unremitting, false stare with a complacent smirk on their face & poke their heads forwards just before saying something really sleazy/cheazy. Straight from the Alan Clarke school of seduction. Well, Helleauuu! Mercifully doesn't happen often.
Perhaps you can think of a different example?




I have wrecked my brains trying to think of the difference between staring and making eye contact. I think the difference is the smile. If you don't smile as you make eye contact you will find yourself staring.

Staring is that "rabbit in the headlights" look that beginners get when they're in a complete panic and desperate for any sort of clue. There's usually some other facial expression which goes with the stare. Bad ones to look out for is that little vertical wrinkle between the eyebrows or slight gritting of teeth. Good ones is, yes, smiling. If there is no other facial expression to be seen check that you are not dancing with Hannibal Lecter.



It can also be fun and a little mischievous. If you feel awkward, then be mischievous (not sleazy) with it - most memorable eye contacts for me were

1 - the bulging eyes as the girl went into a dip
2 - the girls eyes rolling (mocking) as I screwed up a move
3 - the little girl lost look as I completely didn't lead her into the next move
4 - the devastating wink from the gorgeous girl who winked at me as we finished the dance with a dip (not a come-on wink but a mischievous wink). I still melted tho' :nice:

You're obviously well-tuned-in! :nice:

One thing I didn't add to my previous post is that you can use your partners eyes as a good focus for spotting as you turn/spin (I probably didn't know that when I first wrote it).

[Trousers]

Mind you, theres a BIG difference between 'looking' and 'staring,' oh dear, how DOES one begin to explain????:tears:


Oh rats
The more I read these postings the more I worry.

Lookin and staring??? .

I've left that and moved up to staring and drooling.

Maybe Modern Jive isn't ready for me
:eek:

[MartinHarper]

for those 4 minutes you are in love with your partner, how could you not gaze into her eyes?

... because the rest of her body is so beautiful? :)

[robd]

Another thread back from the dead! (Well it is Sat night, I'm too far from Oxford and my bottle of Hardys Crest poor mans champagne (half-price at Tesco - get it while you can) is nearly empty :sad: )

For me, eye contact is an incredibly important part of the dance. I suspect to some people I can be a bit full on with eye contact and smiling during a dance but when my partner meets and matches this it makes SUCH a difference to how I feel about the dance.

There is a lady at my regular venue with whom I love to dance, not because either of us are particularly good but because she will meet and hold eye contact and I find this a real turn on (not a great phrase to use :rolleyes: but I mean in a dancing sense)

Last night at Wellingborough freestyle my favourite dances (plural as the lady asked me for a second dance and what an ego boost that is for a leader :waycool: ) was with a lady who smiled and made eye contact as much as I did - the fact she could do triple spins and end perfectly on the beat helped too :clap: :clap: :clap: In the unlikely event you are reading this and recognise yourself as red dress - dance at Bedford then thank you, thank you, thank you.

I must say though that during class and in fact in life generally (unless fortified by alcohol :rolleyes: ) I am not good at holding eye contact. Freestyle just seems different.

Robert

[Northants Girly]

Last night at Wellingborough freestyle my favourite dances (plural as the lady asked me for a second dance and what an ego boost that is for a leader :waycool: ) was with a lady who smiled and made eye contact as much as I did - the fact she could do triple spins and end perfectly on the beat helped too :clap: :clap: :clap: In the unlikely event you are reading this and recognise yourself as red dress - dance at Bedford then thank you, thank you, thank you.
Was she called Linda? Did she have longish, straight, dark brown hair?? (might know who your mystery partner was!) :)

[Saxylady]

Hard for us titchy gals to make much eye contact with tall guys without falling over. I do smile very nicely at their chests though.

[Cruella]

Last night at Wellingborough freestyle my favourite dances (plural as the lady asked me for a second dance and what an ego boost that is for a leader :waycool: ) was with a lady who smiled and made eye contact as much as I did - the fact she could do triple spins and end perfectly on the beat helped too :clap: :clap: :clap: In the unlikely event you are reading this and recognise yourself as red dress - dance at Bedford then thank you, thank you, thank you.



Robert
I was at Wellingborough and i know who you mean but unfortunately don't know her name sorry. I have only become comfortable with eye contact in the last month or so. I hardly ever used to look into my partners eyes as i found it too intimate. :blush: But after having a conversation with Silverfox, who was brutally honest with me. He told me that a dance with me was just going through the motions as there was no connection because i looked away all the time. I'm grateful for this honesty because it made me force myself to do eye contact. Firstly with just a few men i felt comfortable with, but now i have cracked it and really enjoy doing it. I can understand now what he meant as when my partner doesn't look at me i feel like he really doesn't want to be dancing with me. :sad:

[CeeCee]

Surely any dance is ruined if there is no eye contact.

It would certainly be enough to spoil a dance for me.

If dancing is a conversation, how can you converse with anyone for three whole minutes without paying attention to them by maintaining eye contact as much as the moves will allow?

[ducasi]

Surely any dance is ruined if there is no eye contact.

It would certainly be enough to spoil a dance for me. :yeah:

I wrote this on my blog (http://ducasi.org/blog/) last night...

"... I find the quality of a dance is directly related to how the lady dances with you. If you dance with me, but don’t actually look at me, then no matter how good, experienced, advanced or whatever a dancer you are, I probably won’t enjoy dancing with you.

All the dances that I can remember moments of (and I’m not good at this) were with dancers who kept a good level of eye-contact with me, and smiled. :grin: Even a dance with a beginner rated highly with me as she seemed to actually be dancing with me, and enjoying it! I can think of quite a few dances with “better” dancers where that didn’t happen.

Often the partner you’re dancing with seems to go into “auto-pilot”, and instead of interacting with you, is looking round the room to try to figure out who’s up next… My fix for this is throw in a really different move which catches them by surprise, and brings their attention back the the dance they’re currently having… (Though often this seemed to happen as a result of mistakes which not only would throw my partner, but me as well! :blush: )

..."

[CeeCee]

:yeah:

I wrote this on my blog (http://ducasi.org/blog/) last night...

If you dance with me, but don’t actually look at me, then no matter how good, experienced, advanced or whatever a dancer you are, I probably won’t enjoy dancing with you.
:yeah: and ditto to that

[DavidY]

I'm usually not very good at the whole eye contact thing. :blush:

However what makes me really bad at it is a crowded dance floor (eg. Southport Blues Room). I find I'm spending all my time looking over my shoulders and around me to see where I can step back safely or somewhere to lead my partner too. I've tried to get the slotted dancing thing right, but even then I don't feel I csan stop checking where everyone else is.

How do other people succeed at maintaining eye contact whilst still avoiding others. What am I doing wrong? :blush:

[Lynn]

Something I'm no good at, for various reasons :blush: :tears:

[ducasi]

How do other people succeed at maintaining eye contact whilst still avoiding others. What am I doing wrong? :blush: I just bash into them – when you're in love, you don't feel the pain. :blush:

Just kidding... For me, it's not about maintaining eye contact, it's about it being there when it needs to be. So you can look around, but when you're face-to-face with your partner, or close, side-by-side, you should be looking at them. When you're about to do that tricky move, you need eye contact to see if they're ready. After you need it to see if they're having fun. When you're close, in baskets and combs, and the like, you need to acknowledge that you're dancing with a person, not a body.

The deliberate look away can also be very effective. Last night in a wee basket walk, as she turns to look at me, I turn away, then as I turn to look at her, she turns away, then she looks, then I look, etc... That was fantastic. I love dancing! :yum:

I know I could give a lot more eye contact, and I'm learning from the women who are good at it... But when certain women (especially some of those lovely Edinburgh women :drool:) gaze into your eyes, how can you not gaze right back into theirs? :o

:hug:

[robd]

Was she called Linda? Did she have longish, straight, dark brown hair?? (might know who your mystery partner was!) :)

Possibly, and yes. We did exchange names but I am ashamed to say I cannot remember hers (nor any of the other new ladies with whom I danced on Friday :blush: )

[robd]

I was at Wellingborough

Don't recall seeing you though as I have only seen you once before when you demoed for Paul maybe I wouldn't recognise you anyway! Were you with the 'advanced dancers :wink: ' near to the bar?

[Cruella]

Don't recall seeing you though as I have only seen you once before when you demoed for Paul maybe I wouldn't recognise you anyway! Were you with the 'advanced dancers :wink: ' near to the bar?
I was wearing a pink hat you couldn't have missed that.

[David Bailey]

Something I'm no good at, for various reasons :blush: :tears:
Eye contact doesn't have to mean staring - I think it's more shorthand for "acknowledging, facing and reacting to your partner with your body language". Or something...

Too much eye contact is also a Bad Thing - that way lies stalkerdom :)

[ducasi]

Eye contact doesn't have to mean staring - I think it's more shorthand for "acknowledging, facing and reacting to your partner with your body language". Or something... With your eyes surely. I'm sure it's possible to acknowledge, face and react to your partner with your body language, but if you're not actually looking at them with your eyes, how do they know it's them you're reacting to, and not the hot girl or guy over their shoulder?

Too much eye contact is also a Bad Thing From certain parties, there is no such thing as too much eye contact. :yum:

[jivecat]

:yeah:


Often the partner you’re dancing with seems to go into “auto-pilot”, and instead of interacting with you, is looking round the room to try to figure out who’s up next… My fix for this is throw in a really different move which catches them by surprise, and brings their attention back the the dance they’re currently having… (Though often this seemed to happen as a result of mistakes which not only would throw my partner, but me as well! :blush: )

..."

This is exactly what I want my partner to do if I'm on autopilot. If the guy won't look at me it's much harder to concentrate and much easier to just go through the motions mechanically. I like not knowing what's going to happen next, it makes me follow better and it's more exciting.

[ducasi]

I find the quality of a dance is directly related to how the lady dances with you. If you dance with me, but don’t actually look at me, then no matter how good, experienced, advanced or whatever a dancer you are, I probably won’t enjoy dancing with you.

All the dances that I can remember moments of (and I’m not good at this) were with dancers who kept a good level of eye-contact with me, and smiled. :grin: Even a dance with a beginner rated highly with me as she seemed to actually be dancing with me, and enjoying it! I can think of quite a few dances with “better” dancers where that didn’t happen.

Often the partner you’re dancing with seems to go into “auto-pilot”, [ snip! ] I've thought some more about this, having talked to a dancer that I enjoy dancing with, but whom doesn't give me much eye contact... (And I can think of quite a few people in this category.)

I now think the key thing is that she "seemed to actually be dancing with me, and enjoying it" – rather than being in auto-pilot mode. So even if she's not looking at me much, she's maybe creating stylish lines with where she does place her gaze, she's fully committed to the dance and she doesn't look like she's totally bored of me and my boring dancing... :tears:

It's still good if my partner can look at me occasionally ("hello!") and she's watching enough to catch signals, but if she's too shy with me to give me full eye-contact much, then just so long as there's a connection of some sort, it's cool. :waycool:

[KatieR]

Eye contact can be a really difficult thing at times. If you aren't feeling particularly confident at the time of the dance for whatever reason, looking someone in the eyes can be quite a traumatic experience. Its also very much a self confidence thing.

Not making eye contact is a hard thing to overcome, perhaps harder than some people realise. Some people are also harder to make eye contact with than others. Especially if you perhaps secretly fancy the guy/girl or are possibly intimidated by them.

The way I have overcome this, is to try and make eye contact as often as possible with people when I talk to them, no matter how uncomfortable it may feel. The more you make eye contact with people, each time it becomes a little less uncomfortable. Although some days are definately harder than others.

[CJ]

Apologies for not reading the whole thread, but...

Can you have too much eye contact?? :eek:

I think I'm quite an eye-contact type dancer and hope I dont "intimidate" my dancers into not meeting my eyes... :sick:

Girls, when being led: does it happen?? :confused:

[azande]

Apologies for not reading the whole thread, but...

Can you have too much eye contact?? :eek:

I think I'm quite an eye-contact type dancer and hope I dont "intimidate" my dancers into not meating my eyes... :sick:

Girls, when being led: does it happen?? :confused:
:yeah:

[Cruella]

Apologies for not reading the whole thread, but...

Can you have too much eye contact?? :eek:

I think I'm quite an eye-contact type dancer and hope I dont "intimidate" my dancers into not meeting my eyes... :sick:

Girls, when being led: does it happen?? :confused:
It does seem too much if the eye contact isn't broken throughout the whole dance! Also if there is never a smile. Then it becomes scary! :eek:

[LMC]

Re: too much eye contact

Tricky...

IMO, KatieR has hit the nail right on the head with the confidence thing - there are times when I find eye contact really easy and enjoyable, and times when I don't - and who I'm dancing with doesn't really affect that. It's not necessarily to do with looks or even necessarily how well they dance - it's much more about attitude.

Also at some instinctive level you can tell the difference between someone who is making eye contact for joy of the dance / the music / being totally into you for this ~3.5 minutes ONLY, thank you very much - and someone who has, er, ulterior motives - you can't separate eye contact from the rest of the facial expression or the rest of the dance.

Last weekend was the first time I ever pushed someone away from a slo-comb - through the entire dance he never got too close, but he held that comb fractionally too long and I had some instinctive negative reaction to the eye contact AND facial expression. Whereas I had no problems doing bluesy moves with other guys I'd never danced with before.

Don't know if any other women can be more specific...

[David Bailey]

Last weekend was the first time I ever pushed someone away from a slo-comb - through the entire dance he never got too close, but he held that comb fractionally too long and I had some instinctive negative reaction to the eye contact AND facial expression.
But... but... * sob *... I really thought you liked me... :tears:

[LMC]

But... but... * sob *... I really thought you liked me... :tears:
Troublemaker! :rofl:

Re-reading that last post of mine it's really vague and useless actually... :blush: - especially since instincts are not always correct!

[Icey]

I've found it very difficult to make eye contact and would usually be looking elsewhere. But I've noticed this very bad habit of mine and I'm now working on it.

Sometimes I can't catch the eye of my partner for love nor money, that's when I just let him get on with looking around the room :(

[TiggsTours]

Eye contact is so important, on so many levels! It helps enormously with lead & follow, it helps the lady to have something to spot on when she's spinning, it helps the man to know where she is at any given time (and vice versa) and its an important social aspect of the dance, that just adds so much pleasure. But it is difficult to get it right. I used to have the opposite problem, when I first started I was concentrating so intently on what my partner was doing that I used to stare too much! I heard in a Blues class something, that was applied to dancing blues, but can apply just as much to eye contact, in order to carry it off, you need to find something appealing about your partner, it doesn't mean you have to fancy them, they may have a nice smile, you might like their personality, or just the top they're wearing, if you can find something you'd like to connect with, it makes eye contact (and blues) much easier.

[Lou]

I think I'm quite an eye-contact type dancer and hope I dont "intimidate" my dancers into not meating my eyes... :sick:
It's when they don't eye his meat - that's when he complains.... :na:

[David Bailey]

Re-reading that last post of mine it's really vague and useless actually...
Plus, committing the cardinal sin of indirect naming, you wuss you. :whistle:

All that heartache, I was thinking it was me... :innocent:

[Ghost]

Last weekend was the first time I ever pushed someone away from a slo-comb - <SNIP> I had some instinctive negative reaction



Assuming this was a gentle push away rather than a "GET THE HELL AWAY FROM ME" shove , then no harm, no foul. The slo comb by it's nature takes you into someone's personal space and keeps you there. I'd much rather someone gave me a gentle push back than was uncomfortable (besides I'm usually counting the beats in my head :whistle: so I don't overstay my welcome, though a truly dazzling smile at this point will completely wreck my ability to count to 2 :flower: ).

Actually this applies to any move. To me dancing is about us both enjoying it. All my leads are just suggestions - the lady is completely free to ignore them. So if I lead an In and Out hands on chest and the lady prefers to stop her hands an inch from my chest, good for her :clap:

The converse is also true. I remember a lady doing a bluesy move that I totally wasn't expecting and I nearly jumped :blush: . Before anyone starts muttering about naming and shaming I've no idea who she is.

Take care,
Christopher

[Lynn]

I heard in a Blues class something, that was applied to dancing blues, but can apply just as much to eye contact, in order to carry it off, you need to find something appealing about your partner, it doesn't mean you have to fancy them, they may have a nice smile, you might like their personality, or just the top they're wearing, if you can find something you'd like to connect with, it makes eye contact (and blues) much easier.And sometimes you don't know the person (so don't know their personality) and there isn't anything about them that on initial glance you would particularly like - but when you start dancing with them, connecting with them and the music... :drool: eye contact, smiling, bluesy dancing just all flows... til the end of the track anyway!

[CeeCee]

LMC Last weekend was the first time I ever pushed someone away from a slo-comb - through the entire dance he never got too close, but he held that comb fractionally too long ...
QUOTE]
If you were uncomfortable then you were uncomfortable.

No need to justify it, no need to explain it.

You did what felt right at the time when you were unhappy with him in your dance space.

Are you just lucky that you've never had to 'push' someone away before from a slo-comb?

[jockey]

I am fully understanding of the difficulty that beginners have with eye contact and don't expect it of them. Of the others, I try and work out if I think the lack of eye contact is due to shyness, which I can forgive, or because my partner is a supercilious & discourteous person whose attention is elsewhere, which I certainly can't. How do I tell the difference? Not sure, really. Intuition.

What I'm increasingly beginning to notice is how incomplete a dance feels without eye contact, even if technically it was otherwise a good dance. And it's not just the social aspect, important though that is. I find that concentration is a key element in dancing well and good eye contact helps me to focus on my partner and concentrate better. If any peripheral event snaps that concentration, then, whoops, I start falling over my own feet!

I also feel that eye contact forms part of the lead; if the guy won't look at me I always feel a sense of insecurity about what I should be doing even if other signals are O.K. I think that by looking at your partner you pick up & transmit all sorts of subliminal signals about speed, direction, intention, musical interpretation etc. which enhance a dance technically as well as socially.

I think the need for eye contact is taught in Ceroc. It's regularly mentioned in beginner's classes. The usual reponse is that the crowd start shifting their feet and giggling nervously!
Not only does the dance feel incomplete without the smile it LOOKS incomplete. I was at Totton, nr Southampton, the other week and I saw this guy dancing in a sweeping, long arm style looking at the floor! It looked awful.
But the thing was he could dance (although this type of dancing tends to make too much use of passing moves and is always long distance). My overall impressiion aided and abetted by the lack of eye contact ( and therefore lack of smiling cos you can only smile at yourpartner if you are looking at them) was that he was dancing with himself such was the lack of connection. I murmered his moves to myself as he danced...passing move, manspin (singlespin), passing move, american spin, pretzel (single), etc etc.
I"m acutely aware of this mans problem because I used to suffer from it: when I was trying to interest a young polish girl into becoming my competition partner her friend said (having been asked her opinion of our dancing) that I looked at the floor too much. Also I was unaware of it - so, dear reader if you are not sure whether you are making enough eye contact, you almost certainly are not. Why not ask your partners friend to watch and comment? :nice: :yeah:

[foxylady]

I have often been told that I dance with my eyes (first my hips, now my eyes !!) , but to echo many sentiments expressed above, to dance with a partner, without eye contact, is to dance alone ! There is no connection....

I fear, sometimes, I connect a little too much, and scare people away... but then I do like to flirt :devil:

[David Bailey]

I have often been told that I dance with my eyes (first my hips, now my eyes !!)
OK, how long till "Foxylady's Eyes" starts posting? :innocent:

[KatieR]

If you were uncomfortable then you were uncomfortable.
?

Yes, if you are feeling uncomfortable, in any situation, then generally there is a reason for it. I find some guys, pull weird faces or seem to stare really hard at me and just find it downright strange and off putting. Sometimes I guy will put his face REALLY close to mine and I so just want to run a million miles away. Its so uncomfortable that it can really ruin a dance, because you spend the whole time feeling really threatened and thats not what dancing is about.

[jivecat]

...... so, dear reader if you are not sure whether you are making enough eye contact, you almost certainly are not.


I've got several (male) friends who have complacently remarked that they think they are rather good ar eye contact, when, IMHO, they certainly are not.

One is a very brisk kind of move monster who throws me the occasional smile and a glance but spends most of the time staring off into the middle distance as he concentrates on lining up the next complicated move.

The other one furrows his brow in furious concentration as he counts through endless beats. I always feel as though the dance is all about him getting to the end of whatever sequence he has planned out, and I'm just a necessary (and malfunctioning) bit of equipment he needs to help him accomplish it! I tried asking him to do simpler moves in the hope of getting more connection but he didn't understand what I was on about. In fact, I don't think he even listened. Ah well.

I like both these guys and enjoy dancing with them anyway. But there is still something missing there.

[Mr Cool]

[QUOTE=foxylady]I have often been told that I dance with my eyes (first my hips, now my eyes !!) , but to echo many sentiments expressed above, to dance with a partner, without eye contact, is to dance alone ! There is no connection.... :yeah:

Well Foxy lady it is pure pleasure dancing with you the your eye contact and overt personality are wonderful.
You know how reserved and shy I am.
I always enjoy a dance with you you give your partners great feed back from your eyes, and your confident attitude is crucial to creating the right feel to any dance
:waycool: :waycool: :waycool: :waycool:

[MartinHarper]

I turn away, then as I turn to look at her, she turns away, then she looks, then I look, etc...

Aye. Though it's kinda like keeping your eyes shut when kissing - you can't check whether your partner is peeping without peeping yourself.

[Gadget]

I've been told that i don't give enough eye contact... actually, that I don't look at my partner often enough - it can make my danceing look 'detached' and as if we are simply dancing at the same time rather than dancing together.
I have seen other dancers do it and look cool, but I have also seen the same dancers appear dissinterested - more to do with the rest of the body language and presence on the floor I think. (Focused 'inside' rather than on their partner)

It's something I've been prodding myself to attend to every now & again, but I also like dancing with my eyes closed... is that a good or bad thing? :shrug: I like dancing with ladies who close their eyes... {mmmmm. I also like kissing with eyes closed :devil:}

[Scarlet O Hara]

I've been told that i don't give enough eye contact...

I've never had that problem when I dance with you, but the fact that we are almost the same height means you are looking into my eyes!!!

When I dance with vertically challenged guys (who are also lovely dancers - but on a side note dancing with someone your own height does make a difference) they would get sore necks if they tried to look into my eyes, not quite sure where they are looking :innocent:

[TA Guy]

I'm a typically repressed Englishman, maybe worse than most, and have always had trouble making and keeping eye contact while dancing.

I too have been battered by the 'make eye contact' and 'smile while you dance' brigade and have never really managed to overcome that 'flaw' in my dancing. I lost count of the number of times I've been taught the basket and told to turn to my partner, make eye contact and smile. Hah!

The only thing I would say is having this flaw has never reduced my enjoyment of the dance, and from the signs, as far as I can tell, has never reduced the enjoyment of the dance for any partner.

I just hope they are happy with a smile and a 'I enjoyed that' comment at the end.

So I've come to the conclusion it's like a lot of these things to do with dance. Give it a try,and if you don't like it, dump it. It's not the end of the world.

[stewart38]

I can do, just about, the beginners moves. I can, sort of almost, do my 2 intermediate moves. I occasionally dance in time with the music. Once I nearly hit a break. But the one thing I'm really struggling with at the moment is eye contact when dancing.

Basically I either find it very difficult to look at the woman (particularly if she is pretty) so do the whole dance looking at her hands/my feet. Or occasionally I'll dance with a woman who gives lots of eye contact and smiles a great deal at which point I feel I must reciprocate and I end up with this fixed manic looking grin on my face. I think it's more of a shyness/etiquette thing than anything else - I don't NEED to look at my feet.

This may be symptomatic of my lack of social skills generally:( but I'm wondering if anyone else has ever encountered this problem? :sorry

Pete


I still struggle after 11yrs of dancing with this

[bigdjiver]

I am poor at eye contact. None from the lady is definitely off-putting, although sometimes I can see is completely into the music, and enjoying herself, or a beginner concentrating, and I am content to let them have most of it. However I do always try to make our two worlds meet.
I have danced with some ladies with superb eye contact. They look at me as though I am the only man in the world for them. Unfortunately this reduces me to a state of quivering near paralysis, and completely useless as a lead.

[Jhutch]

Phew:grin: Good to know that i am not the only one who has trouble with eye contact. I just don't feel that comfortable doing it:blush: :sad: Also it would probably put me off. I normally get complaints that i look too serious but this is more to do with the fact that i am concentrating. When i first started doing freestyle i liked using the comb to try and make some eye contact as it is a move where the man doesn't have to do too much:clap: . I could therefore relax and try to make some eye contact which i was told that i should be doing. Later that night, when i thought about the mixed reactions i had received at that point, i thought that maybe it wasn't the moment to suddenly look into the girl's eyes (bit sleazy really). Did it once at the start of the next freestyle and my suspicions were confirmed. Haven't done one since:sad:

[Tartaniad]

Often wonder myself How Much is Too Much eye contact.With some people I know I want to look into their eyes all the time,but the voice in my head says not tooo long incase its misconstrued.Other times some people stare into my eyes too much,but I wonder if I should look back or should I look away or wil I offend if I do.Still trying to work that one out? But i`m sure well hopefully will get it right one day.Answers on a postcard:what:

[Genie]

Often wonder myself How Much is Too Much eye contact.With some people I know I want to look into their eyes all the time,but the voice in my head says not tooo long incase its misconstrued.Other times some people stare into my eyes too much,but I wonder if I should look back or should I look away or wil I offend if I do.Still trying to work that one out? But i`m sure well hopefully will get it right one day.Answers on a postcard:what:

I personally feel a little eye contact, at the right moments or during the right breaks in the music, can have far more impact than constant eye contact. But it is entirely down to how comfortable you are with it. If your eyes start to water you've been staring too hard :wink:

[Tartaniad]

I personally feel a little eye contact, at the right moments or during the right breaks in the music, can have far more impact than constant eye contact. But it is entirely down to how comfortable you are with it. If your eyes start to water you've been staring too hard :wink:

or someone has stood on more than your toes:whistle:

[SeriouslyAddicted]

I personally feel a little eye contact, at the right moments or during the right breaks in the music, can have far more impact than constant eye contact. But it is entirely down to how comfortable you are with it. If your eyes start to water you've been staring too hard :wink:

:yeah: Too much eye contact feels really uncomfortable but no eye contact is just unfriendly.

[Gav]

Not sure if this has been said already ('cos I'm too lazy to read all the posts :na: ), but I find it really depends on the person you're dancing with and I don't always get it right. :blush:

The reactions I've had vary from refusing to meet my eyes and erecting an invisible force field between us (makes it quite difficult to dance!), to a simple return of eye contact at about the same level, to finding that I had a new admirer who had got completely the wrong idea! There was one memorable occasion when it led to a very UCP, sexy dance, which apparently got a few watchers hot under the collar, but we both walked away knowing that it was just a hot dance, nothing more.

I have reduced the amount of eye contact I give since then, because I don't like making people feel uncomfortable or giving people the wrong impression, but it is a shame.

[Trouble]

Not sure if this has been said already ('cos I'm too lazy to read all the posts :na: ), but I find it really depends on the person you're dancing with and I don't always get it right. :blush:

The reactions I've had vary from refusing to meet my eyes and erecting an invisible force field between us (makes it quite difficult to dance!), to a simple return of eye contact at about the same level, to finding that I had a new admirer who had got completely the wrong idea! There was one memorable occasion when it led to a very UCP, sexy dance, which apparently got a few watchers hot under the collar, but we both walked away knowing that it was just a hot dance, nothing more.

I have reduced the amount of eye contact I give since then, because I don't like making people feel uncomfortable or giving people the wrong impression, but it is a shame.


I can honestly say i have never felt uncomfortable with any dancer due to their making too much eye contact. (mm she sits and thinks about that for a minute....why do they not look that much) In fact its quite the opposite. (sits and thinks about that too :sick: )

Think im repeating myself here but hate it if the person your dancing with does not even cast you a glance, its as though they dont really want to dance with you. Now that makes me feel uncomfortable. :flower:

Gav, you might find that not squeezing their ass and fondling them whilst looking in their eyes will prevent them getting the wrong impression in future. :D :D

[Lory]

I think a lot depends on the expression of the person who's looking at you, as to whether you feel comfortable or not .....

:) ;) :o :na: :yum: :devil: :wink: :what: :eek: :sick: :angry: :rolleyes:

[Gav]

Think im repeating myself here but hate it if the person your dancing with does not even cast you a glance, its as though they dont really want to dance with you. Now that makes me feel uncomfortable. :flower:

That's just rude. If they're not going to make the effort, just they should just call themself a hotshot and say no when asked for a dance. At least then there'll be no mistaking it.


Gav, you might find that not squeezing their ass and fondling them whilst looking in their eyes will prevent them getting the wrong impression in future. :D :D

Ahhh, but on those occasions, it's not the wrong impression! :wink: Subtle? what's that?

[Trouble]

That's just rude. If they're not going to make the effort, just they should just call themself a hotshot and say no when asked for a dance. At least then there'll be no mistaking it.
say no, that is heartbreaking when that happens. i have been refused twice, :tears: in three years,,,, they came up with some lame excuse, im too hot or i dont like the song or something but it leaves you feeling absolutely devestated even though it could be a genuine reason.

[Gav]

say no, that is heartbreaking when that happens. i have been refused twice, :tears: in three years,,,, they came up with some lame excuse, im too hot or i dont like the song or something but it leaves you feeling absolutely devestated even though it could be a genuine reason.

I haven't had a refusal yet*, so I can't comment, but I've had a few dances with very good dancers where they've only been one step away from looking at their watches or sighing heavily. Not being an especially confident type, I say the usual pleasantries and remember not to ask them again, but what I really want to do is to tell them that if they don't want to dance with me, just bloody well say so.

* I had one refusal once, but that doesn't count because she said she didn't feel well, then later came and found me for a dance saying that she felt bad about saying no and would like to dance with me as long as I don't lead too many spins.

[ducasi]

That's just rude. If they're not going to make the effort, just they should just call themself a hotshot and say no when asked for a dance. At least then there'll be no mistaking it.
I agree – however, (and as I think I said earlier on this thread) what if it's her/him who asked you to dance?

[Trouble]

I haven't had a refusal yet*, so I can't comment, but I've had a few dances with very good dancers where they've only been one step away from looking at their watches or sighing heavily. Not being an especially confident type, I say the usual pleasantries and remember not to ask them again, but what I really want to do is to tell them that if they don't want to dance with me, just bloody well say so.

.[/SIZE]

have not had a refusal yet eh Gav..... lucky you. :flower: :flower:

[Jhutch]

That's just rude. If they're not going to make the effort, just they should just call themself a hotshot and say no when asked for a dance. At least then there'll be no mistaking it.




I agree – however, (and as I think I said earlier on this thread) what if it's her/him who asked you to dance?

This happened to me a few times at first:sad: A few women would ask me to dance and then spend the dance simply gazing around the room, sometimes almost over their shoulder. I can only think that they thought they were doing me a favour by asking me to dance and were using the floor-time to try and see who else was there. I appreciate their motives, and it is nice for a beginner to be asked to dance, but i thought it came across differently to that:sad:

[Trouble]

This happened to me a few times at first:sad: A few women would ask me to dance and then spend the dance simply gazing around the room, sometimes almost over their shoulder. I can only think that they thought they were doing me a favour by asking me to dance and were using the floor-time to try and see who else was there. I appreciate their motives, and it is nice for a beginner to be asked to dance, but i thought it came across differently to that:sad:

wow never thought men felt like that too. Thought it was just us sensative women. :flower:

[Gav]

I agree – however, (and as I think I said earlier on this thread) what if it's her/him who asked you to dance?


This happened to me a few times at first:sad: A few women would ask me to dance and then spend the dance simply gazing around the room, sometimes almost over their shoulder. I can only think that they thought they were doing me a favour by asking me to dance and were using the floor-time to try and see who else was there. I appreciate their motives, and it is nice for a beginner to be asked to dance, but i thought it came across differently to that:sad:

How about a kick in the shins to get their attention? Or wave your hand in front of their face and say "I'm over here by the way" or "are you dancing with me or someone else?".


have not had a refusal yet eh Gav..... lucky you. :flower: :flower:

Hmmmm, ever get the impression that someone's planning to be the first just to wind you up? :rolleyes:

[Genie]

This happened to me a few times at first:sad: A few women would ask me to dance and then spend the dance simply gazing around the room, sometimes almost over their shoulder. I can only think that they thought they were doing me a favour by asking me to dance and were using the floor-time to try and see who else was there. I appreciate their motives, and it is nice for a beginner to be asked to dance, but i thought it came across differently to that:sad:

No honey, some people are just like that. I've danced with some men who are like that. Flatly refusing to look you in the eye. And if they're not looking at you, they're likely to look around the room. Usually with that arrogant, bored expression on their face that they think looks so cool.

[Gav]

This happened to me a few times at first:sad: A few women would ask me to dance and then spend the dance simply gazing around the room, sometimes almost over their shoulder. I can only think that they thought they were doing me a favour by asking me to dance and were using the floor-time to try and see who else was there. I appreciate their motives, and it is nice for a beginner to be asked to dance, but i thought it came across differently to that:sad:

I must admit that I do get distracted sometimes by flashy dancers who are on the floor at the same time, but if I catch myself doing it I usually make up some excuse about keeping an eye on them so we don't get in their way! :innocent:


wow never thought men felt like that too. Thought it was just us sensative women. :flower:

I'm sure it happens to us sensitive blokes :blush: (ahem, well you started it!) just as often and it's every bit as discouraging for us too.

[Jhutch]

This happened to me a few times at first:sad: A few women would ask me to dance and then spend the dance simply gazing around the room, sometimes almost over their shoulder. I can only think that they thought they were doing me a favour by asking me to dance and were using the floor-time to try and see who else was there. I appreciate their motives, and it is nice for a beginner to be asked to dance, but i thought it came across differently to that:sad:


wow never thought men felt like that too. Thought it was just us sensative women. :flower:

LOL:grin: Its ok, i don't go home and cry about it or anything:grin: Just made me wonder if i had done something wrong in between them asking me to dance and me starting to dance.

[Trouble]

LOL:grin: Its ok, i don't go home and cry about it or anything:grin: Just made me wonder if i had done something wrong in between them asking me to dance and me starting to dance.

you see, ruined my image of you being all caring and sensative.....:whistle:

but seriously, did not think women did that like the men do, thought it was just a bad man habit of looking everywhere except at ya partner. Now i know different. :flower: :flower: i would never do that. :D

[Katie Kicks Ass]

What ever you do, do not ask a lady's breasts to dance (you know what I mean)! I usually watch a bloke (to see what he is doing, where hes taking me etc) and If I'm leading I usually look at a womans eyebrows when not checking shes following correctly.

[StokeBloke]

I am new (both here and to Ceroc). I've only been dancing for seven weeks and I am so glad I found this site. I thought I was the only one who felt 'odd' about making eye contact. I have sat and spent the last hour or so reading every single post on this thread and it has been a great help. Thanks for all your tips, stories and advice.

It's hard when you're learning to get this sort of thing right. I just end up feeling... like a creep. ESPECIALLY in the lesson when we are all being told to look at our partner's eyes and smile. Uughhh. Hopefully I can apply some of the stuff I have learnt here next time I storm the floor with my stunning display of freestyle (that is dancing that is free from any form of style :grin: ) beginners moves. Yo-yo anyone....?

[Twirly]

Welcome to the forum SB. And a new addiction :wink:

[whitetiger1518]

Welcome SB,

I understand where you are coming from on the eye contact thing. . It can be quite intimidating on one level to look in someones eyes (particularly if you feel that they are amount better than you*)

However: Do persevere!! :worthy:

There is nothing nicer than looking into the eyes of a good friend... Melting into their eyes and the dance... :drool: :yum:

It takes dancing to a whole new level :clap: :clap: (even if you mix up steps and or fudge bits in the middle :blush: ).

There is NO experience like it :worthy: :worthy:

(* Whether or not they are :wink: )

Cheers

Whitetiger

[StokeBloke]

Thanks for the warm welcome.

Last night I learned the Slo Comb for the first time ever... Oh man! If that had been my first class I would never have been back. I usually go into the freestyle section starting with the beginners routine, and then mixing in a few moves from previous weeks... last night was the first time I haven't done that. Please don't get me wrong, I am no prude, it just all feels so alien... especially the eye contact thing. It makes the whole situation very intimate. Umm... freestyling isn't as bad as the classes, because it feels more like the lady has a choice to be there or not... I guess.

Sorry; I probably just sound like a blathering idiot :blush:

[Jhutch]

Thanks for the warm welcome.

Last night I learned the Slo Comb for the first time ever... Oh man! If that had been my first class I would never have been back. I usually go into the freestyle section starting with the beginners routine, and then mixing in a few moves from previous weeks... last night was the first time I haven't done that. Please don't get me wrong, I am no prude, it just all feels so alien... especially the eye contact thing. It makes the whole situation very intimate. Umm... freestyling isn't as bad as the classes, because it feels more like the lady has a choice to be there or not... I guess.

Sorry; I probably just sound like a blathering idiot :blush:

Hello:)

Dont worry, i have been going for about three and a half months now and i feel pretty much the same. Being about 6 foot tall, i find the comb is even worse if i am dancing with quite a short girl as i have to bend my knees to bring me down to her height. However, this also dramatically reduces the distance between our faces :eek: Feels a bit too close for my liking. Will do a comb if i am going through the beginners routine with a newby - otherwise i havent done one since the freestyle after my fourth lesson:blush:

[MartinHarper]

All of me - why not watch all of me
Cant you see - I'm no good without you

Watch these arms - I wanna use them
Watch these hands - lest you confuse them

Your first move - left me with hips that groove
It's so smooth - dancing with you

Watch my eyeholes - the doors to my soul
And why not - why not watch all of me?

[Lee Bartholomew]

I think alot of men feel the same.

I have been dancing a year or so and have always found it uncomfortable to looks into a womans eyes, Esp when doing a move like the Penguin or ball room turns. Makes me sing 'Lady in Red' in my head.

A few people have pointed out to me, that I don't make eye contact and that I should, so It is now in my list of things to improve on this week.

Someone was right earlier. Everything feel uncomfortable when you first start practising.

[Trouble]

I think alot of men feel the same.

I have been dancing a year or so and have always found it uncomfortable to looks into a womans eyes, Esp when doing a move like the Penguin or ball room turns. Makes me sing 'Lady in Red' in my head.

A few people have pointed out to me, that I don't make eye contact and that I should, so It is now in my list of things to improve on this week.

Someone was right earlier. Everything feel uncomfortable when you first start practising.

there should be nothing to make you feel uncomfortable. Unless of cause your leering and dribbling when making the eye contact :D :D When a dance partner is giving you the time of day to look at you and it makes the other person feel good, attended too and special. It makes for neater dancing, easier following and generally a better appearance throughout. :D :flower: :D

[Lee Bartholomew]

It's because im Shy :blush:

[Gav]

I like giving and recieving lots of eye contact. It makes you feel like you and your partner are the only ones on the dancefloor. :flower:

If people get the wrong idea, that's unfortunate, but rather that than have them think I'm not that interested. :sick:

[Trouble]

I like giving and recieving lots of eye contact. It makes you feel like you and your partner are the only ones on the dancefloor. :flower:

If people get the wrong idea, that's unfortunate, but rather that than have them think I'm not that interested. :sick:

cant beleive you beat me to the next 00, im on bloody 99 what a mare.

Anyway, we have a lot of eye contact and im sure nobody has got the wrong idea, im sure they see two people enjoying the dance thats if anybody even notices. :flower:

[Gav]

cant beleive you beat me to the next 00, im on bloody 99 what a mare.

Anyway, we have a lot of eye contact and im sure nobody has got the wrong idea, im sure they see two people enjoying the dance thats if anybody even notices. :flower:

Ooooooo, you rep tart, look at that jump from 99 to 107!

[Twirly]

there should be nothing to make you feel uncomfortable. Unless of cause your leering and dribbling when making the eye contact :D :D When a dance partner is giving you the time of day to look at you and it makes the other person feel good, attended too and special. It makes for neater dancing, easier following and generally a better appearance throughout. :D :flower: :D

Hate to say it, but some guys do overdo the eye contact... mostly it doesn't bother me, but I know some people whom it freaks out. And an intense, unblinking stare is a bit odd. :what: Particularly from someone you don't really know. A lot of us are English after all, looking at each other is usually considered icky :sick: :rofl:

[Lee Bartholomew]

What if the person you are dancing with / or you yourself have wonky eyes?

Just a thought :D

[Trouble]

Hate to say it, but some guys do overdo the eye contact... mostly it doesn't bother me, but I know some people whom it freaks out. And an intense, unblinking stare is a bit odd. :what: Particularly from someone you don't really know. A lot of us are English after all, looking at each other is usually considered icky :sick: :rofl:


yes unnecessary staring, ie. leering as i call it, it never welcome.



(****makes note to stop overdoing the staring******)

[Double Trouble]

What if the person you are dancing with / or you yourself have wonky eyes?

Just a thought :D

nothing worse than jealous eyes (one eye is always looking at the other eye to see what it's doing):D

[Juju]

I like giving and recieving lots of eye contact.

Now, you see, I hate that I do.

Actually, now I think about it, I dislike giving too much eye contact more, because if I'm looking away, it makes no difference if he's staring at me or not. :what:

[StokeBloke]

What ever you do, do not ask a lady's breasts to dance (you know what I mean)! I usually watch a bloke (to see what he is doing, where hes taking me etc) and If I'm leading I usually look at a womans eyebrows when not checking shes following correctly.
This is something else that I am sort of getting better with. But our very good teacher (hello Mike if you read this) drums it into us how important it is to offer your hand at the lady's waist height. Now I am tallish, and during the lesson as the ladies move round you have to check that you have your hand in the right place. So as you say 'hi' and glance down you are often confronted with a sea of cleavage!

I think it's the lessons that cause the most discomfort to be honest. Standing in the first move with your hand on a stranger's bum whilst the finer details of that part of the move are explained isn't always comfortable!

Now you may think I am worrying too much, but I sort of prefer it that way than to not give a stuff what is thought of my behaviour on the floor :rolleyes:

[Twirly]

This is something else that I am sort of getting better with. But our very good teacher (hello Mike if you read this) drums it into us how important it is to offer your hand at the lady's waist height. Now I am tallish, and during the lesson as the ladies move round you have to check that you have your hand in the right place. So as you say 'hi' and glance down you are often confronted with a sea of cleavage!

And you're complaining?! :rofl: I'd have thought a lot of men would think of this as an advantage. :rolleyes:


I think it's the lessons that cause the most discomfort to be honest. Standing in the first move with your hand on a stranger's bum whilst the finer details of that part of the move are explained isn't always comfortable!

Now you may think I am worrying too much, but I sort of prefer it that way than to not give a stuff what is thought of my behaviour on the floor :rolleyes:

You'll get used to it. It doesn't sound as if your behaviour is likely to be causing any offence. :nice:

[bigdjiver]

Thanks for the warm welcome.

Last night I learned the Slo Comb for the first time ever... Oh man! If that had been my first class I would never have been back. I usually go into the freestyle section starting with the beginners routine, and then mixing in a few moves from previous weeks... last night was the first time I haven't done that. Please don't get me wrong, I am no prude, it just all feels so alien... especially the eye contact thing. It makes the whole situation very intimate. Umm... freestyling isn't as bad as the classes, because it feels more like the lady has a choice to be there or not... I guess.

Sorry; I probably just sound like a blathering idiot :blush:


Hello:)

Dont worry, i have been going for about three and a half months now and i feel pretty much the same. Being about 6 foot tall, i find the comb is even worse if i am dancing with quite a short girl as i have to bend my knees to bring me down to her height. However, this also dramatically reduces the distance between our faces :eek: Feels a bit too close for my liking. Will do a comb if i am going through the beginners routine with a newby - otherwise i havent done one since the freestyle after my fourth lesson:blush:

I have posted that I do not think that the Slow Comb should be a beginner move for the "too-intimate" reason, and advocated that the Ceroc Database be used to discover how newcomer return rates are affected by moves taught in their first lesson.
Being 6' 3" I find it very difficult to avoid making this move naff with shorter ladies. I have tried crouching awkwardly and joking "Isn't this romantic?". Unfortunately such jokes are very dodgy with very nervous newcomers. :sad: With very short ladies I tried doing the move kneeling down. This went down very well with some ladies, but then one took it as a personal insult, me making fun of her height. That is not my nature at all.
The other problem with being so tall is that looking down to gaze into partners eyes I am also in line of sight of down her cleavage, :blush: and that has worried some partners. I believe that good eye contact is vital. It is something I have to work at, it does not come naturally. I have never been able to resolve this problem, and tend to avoid shorter ladies with cleavage showing. I have also never been able to resolve the issue of why ladies wear revealing outfits and complain because men look at what is on show.:confused:
There are some beginners that have no problems with closeness. I sometimes do a very extended slow comb & chat with those that are having problems with the moves, as part of showing them how easy MJ is, standing there wiggling and joking "Hey, we're dancing. We're cool." and repeating that theme with other moves.

[Gav]

Now, you see, I hate that I do.

Actually, now I think about it, I dislike giving too much eye contact more, because if I'm looking away, it makes no difference if he's staring at me or not. :what:

Are you saying that you like giving lots of eye contact, but it makes you feel uncomfortable?

[Juju]

Are you saying that you like giving lots of eye contact, but it makes you feel uncomfortable?

Nope, in a very mangled way I was trying to say that I don't like it, so don't do it much. Not even with mates that I dance with all the time. Too close for comfort. :(

[TA Guy]

Think I've posted on this thread ages ago, so only have one extra thing to say.

Now I've thought about it, over the years, I have overheard, or had ladies complain about creepy looking 'starers' from time to time... Never once have I heard a lady come off and compliment somebodies eye contact :)

[bigdjiver]

Think I've posted on this thread ages ago, so only have one extra thing to say.

Now I've thought about it, over the years, I have overheard, or had ladies complain about creepy looking 'starers' from time to time... Never once have I heard a lady come off and compliment somebodies eye contact :)I heard them talk about partners in terms of "Ooooooh". I assume some form of contact was responsible.

[rubyred]

Personally I find it very disconcerting if I am dancing with someone who does not give me any eye contact throughout a dance. I feel that the dance becomes mechanical and staid. For me eye contact is part of the communication between the dancers and so part of the dance.

[David Bailey]

Now I've thought about it, over the years, I have overheard, or had ladies complain about creepy looking 'starers' from time to time... Never once have I heard a lady come off and compliment somebodies eye contact :)
I have, a couple of times.

Having said that, it wasn't clear whether the complimentee had good eye contact, or just nice eyes :)

[Trouble]

it wasn't clear whether the complimentee had good eye contact, or just nice eyes :)

where was the labrador at this point.... :D :D :D :D

Actually in all honesty DJ, your eye contact is very good, you not only have lovely eyes, you stare in all the right places.... lovely :respect:

[David Bailey]

where was the labrador at this point.... :D :D :D :D

Actually in all honesty DJ, your eye contact is very good, you not only have lovely eyes, you stare in all the right places.... lovely :respect:
Ahhh, that's so sweet. I'm touched. You've got nice, err, eyes too.

Anyway, I'm also not sure about the eye contact thing - I generally play it by ear (so to speak), depending on who I'm dancing with.

[Juju]

Actually in all honesty DJ, your eye contact is very good, you not only have lovely eyes, you stare in all the right places.... lovely :respect:

... I seem to remember saying something about a match made in Heaven.... :devil:

*ducks for cover*

[Gav]

Nope, in a very mangled way I was trying to say that I don't like it, so don't do it much. Not even with mates that I dance with all the time. Too close for comfort. :(

That's a real shame because while I'm aware that some people just don't like eye contact, when I'm dancing with someone who won't make eye contact, it still feels like they're not taking much interest and would rather be somewhere else. :sad:


Actually in all honesty DJ, your eye contact is very good, you not only have lovely eyes, you stare in all the right places.... lovely :respect:

Pass the bucket... :D

[Whitebeard]

Personally I find it very disconcerting if I am dancing with someone who does not give me any eye contact throughout a dance. I feel that the dance becomes mechanical and staid. For me eye contact is part of the communication between the dancers and so part of the dance.

Assumed you were a Lancashire lass and now find you're Irish. North or South ?. As if that matters, the connection is that we're dancing together, metaphorically.

Eye contact has never been a strong point of mine. But in dance I do look (!) for it and often find it strangely lacking.

But it's very much a two-way interaction and is just one of the factors that determine the outcome or enjoyment of a dance. One of my regular partners, to whom I really owe it for dragging me onto the floor when I was absolutely crap, rarely makes eye contact these days. We are now smooth and fluent together and it is only when something interupts that smoothness, or I try to pull off something a little different, that she may make eye contact, and we exchange a smile. Is she trying to tell it's about time I varied my repertoire ?!

But another couple of ladies I increasingly enjoy dancing with love to play about and throw in some sexy styling. Part of that process is to be very up front and demanding of strong eye contact. Found it pretty unnerving and very challenging in ealier days but it has drawn a little bit of attitude out of me.

[Juju]

That's a real shame because while I'm aware that some people just don't like eye contact, when I'm dancing with someone who won't make eye contact, it still feels like they're not taking much interest and would rather be somewhere else. :sad:

Nah, I'd be busy talking your ear off. :D

[Gav]

Nah, I'd be busy talking your ear off. :D

Well, it's nice that you've found an alternative way to make the guys you dance with aware that you are enjoying it.

My experience so far then, eye contact, talking, a big sloppy kiss and the latest one was someone flashing their threpennies at me to let me know how much they were enjoying dancing. :what: an unusual, but not entirely unpleasant experience :yum: Unfortunately, i did breifly lose eye contact:whistle:

[David Bailey]

... I seem to remember saying something about a match made in Heaven.... :devil:
I seem to remember saying something about stalkers...


*ducks for cover*
*gets Big Moderator Stick Out for gratuitous thread diversion punishment, then realizes he's guilty of it himself... :blush: *

Ahem.

OK, getting back to the original question from three years ago - I'd actually like to practice this, it's something that AFAIK no teacher has ever really commented on, but it's clearly an important part of the dance experience.

However, I can't think of a way to work on this without getting, ahem, funny looks. Any suggestions?

[Juju]

Wassa 'pnuishment', Mr Moderator, sir? :yum:

N.B. This is a rhetorical question.

[StokeBloke]

However, I can't think of a way to work on this without getting, ahem, funny looks. Any suggestions?

My teacher tells us with a disarming laugh at various parts of some moves, "this is a good moment to look deeply into your partner's eyes and flash them a great big smile". Thereby, sort of building it habitually into part of that move.

I'm just repeating what I have been learning. It does make it a little easier in the lesson because everyone has been told to do it, so everyone is expecting some eye contact at that point. He even calls it out as part of the move when we're doing the slow walk through.

I guess you could pick a couple of places to do that yourself, and take it from there. Perhaps? Maybe? Worth a try? :)

[spindr]

OK, getting back to the original question from three years ago - I'd actually like to practice this, it's something that AFAIK no teacher has ever really commented on, but it's clearly an important part of the dance experience.
It used to be a regular part of the Leroc mantra in the 1980's to tell partners to look at each other -- and to emphasize that the man should look at the lady during a sway back, or a basket back (but it helps if you both step back on the right foot then, rather than mirroring).

James and Bridget used to do part of a workshop lesson where they did two dances and asked what the difference was. The answer of course being that in one of them there was no eye contact.

SpinDr

[MartinHarper]

I'd actually like to practice this, it's something that AFAIK no teacher has ever really commented on, but it's clearly an important part of the dance experience.

I've heard lots of teachers talk about looking at your partner, in both regular classes and workshops. Eye contact I've only heard mentioned a couple of times.
I'm more concerned with looking at my partner. If I do that, some eye contact comes naturally. Forcing myself to make eye contact feels unnatural in comparison.

[Whitebeard]

I've heard lots of teachers talk about looking at your partner, in both regular classes and workshops. Eye contact I've only heard mentioned a couple of times.
I'm more concerned with looking at my partner. If I do that, some eye contact comes naturally. Forcing myself to make eye contact feels unnatural in comparison.

Oh no, if a teacher mentions looking at your partner, he, sometimes she, is very definitely thinking of meaningful eye to eye contact. Not just looking, which is pretty facile and meaningless, surely? No, real eyeball to eyeball contact, full on engagement, which is something else altogether, and can lead to .... what?

[David Bailey]

I'm more concerned with looking at my partner. If I do that, some eye contact comes naturally. Forcing myself to make eye contact feels unnatural in comparison.
Lots of things feel unnatural in dancing - counter-intuitive even. Taking small steps when learning, or that a lighter lead is usually better, for example.

Is there anything like "good practice", or is this area completely up to the dancers to decide on an individual basis?

[Jive Hunny]

Lots of things feel unnatural in dancing - counter-intuitive even. Taking small steps when learning, or that a lighter lead is usually better, for example.

Is there anything like "good practice", or is this area completely up to the dancers to decide on an individual basis?

I am fairly new to dance so can only give my opinion about "good practice" from my experiences so far.

I think as individuals, with differing comfort zones, confidence levels, concentration levels, and how relaxed we feel that being aware of "good practice" helps.

I feel that to have a goal to give 'eye contact' automatically makes it feel unnatural, especially with everything else to think about!.

My intuition leads me to feel that "good practice" starts with an intention to enjoy the dance with your partner. Focusing on them naturally ensures you're looking at them - be it their face, hands, body movement so you can follow or lead as a partnership.
From my experience (and I am shy by nature) the eye contact just comes into play, alongside smiling.:)

[MartinHarper]

Let's hypothesise that dancing is like a conversation, and therefore we can re-use eye-tracking data from conversations to work out what our eyes should be doing when dancing. It's a stretch, I'll give you.


there is a high probability that the person looked at is the person listened (p=88%) or spoken to (p=77%).
(source (http://www.cs.queensu.ca/home/roel/publications/2001/CHI2001%20Gaze%20Conversations.pdf))

I think this backs up the general importance of looking at one's partner: That might be hard to achieve in freestyle dancing, with the needs of turns and floorcraft.


the proportion of the trial that per-
ceivers gazed at the mouth (rather than one of the eyes) increased with noise level,
ranging from about 35% at the none and low noise lev-
els to 55% at the high noise level.
(source (http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:usQYv-F5fG4J:brain.phgy.queensu.ca/pare/assets/Pare%2520et%2520al%25202003.pdf+eye+fixation+mouth +talking&hl=en&gl=uk&ct=clnk&cd=7&client=firefox-a) will expire)

I 't think it's reasonable to claim that the dance floor is relatively "noisy". Also, my gut feeling is that the correct proportion of eye contact is going to be lower in dancing than in spoken conversation, as there are more pieces that go together to make up the conversation.

[StokeBloke]

Let's hypothesise that ....
Eh???

[MartinHarper]

Eh???

Reworded:
For the sake of argument, let us imagine that dancing with someone is like having a conversation with them, and therefore....

[Lory]

I think eye contact is probably more important than a lot of people realise, as it serves to provide useful, unspoken information.


Let's hypothesise that dancing is like a conversation,

:yeah: lets do that.... :D

If someone winces for example, even fleetingly, its an obvious sign that something doesn't feel right, you might even be unwittingly hurting your partner :sick: and if your looking in the other direction or at your feet at the time, you'll have missed the sign.


There's all sorts of good and bad eye contact, the good being a reassuring look that says:

Hey, this is fun and i'm enjoying dancing with you,:cheers: it doesn't have to be constant or intense but enough to check out that your partner's feeling the same way.

There's the 'Oi, check this out,' are you impressed?:waycool: look ...

which can be answered with a....

Woo hoo, you cheeky thing, I like it :yum: :worthy: OR a behave yourself, or I'll slap you look!:cool:

Then we have the smouldering looks, the ones that say.... Mmm, you look good enough to eat :drool: ...if only

And the 'i'm sorry but i'm trying my best look :blush: (I need reasurance:flower: )

and the clinging on for dear life, desperate look :tears: (which means, please tone it down a little, I feel out of my depth here)

the 'up and down' 'who the hell do you think you are?' look (I'm too good for you and you don't impress me:rolleyes: )

And the quizzical looks, which can mean several things, like....

What the hell are you doing :confused: (you look like an idiot)

Or, how an earth did that happen? :what:

Erm, What music are you listening too :confused: (it's obviously not the same as me)

Or, Hmm, (scratches head) I lead 'this' but you did 'that' WHY?? look

Any more?

[StokeBloke]

And the 'i'm sorry but i'm trying my best look :blush: (I need reasurance:flower: )
I knew my look was going to be in there somewhere :wink:

[Gadget]

If eye contact is so vital, why do so many teachers demo and walk-through moves while looking out at the audience/class rather than at their partners?

(And more importantly; is there any excuse for the teacher's demo doing it?)

This is especially noticable on the "Beginner's" DVDs from Ceroc. :shake finger & tut:

[Genie]

I suppose it makes a difference when you are teaching/demo-ing. You are going to be more concerned that the class is getting it right or paying attention than you are with your partner on stage.

Teachers in particular have to pay attention to the room when teaching. And if your partner is looking around the room, you look and feel very strange trying to maintain eye-contact with them :rolleyes: So I can't image, as a demo, it's always easy to look into the eyes of your partner.

On the dance floor in freestyle, however, eye contact can go a long way. But then, so can closing your eyes and going "mmmm" in your partner's ear. :wink: whatever works for you.

[Gav]

If eye contact is so vital, why do so many teachers demo and walk-through moves while looking out at the audience/class rather than at their partners?

(And more importantly; is there any excuse for the teacher's demo doing it?)

This is especially noticable on the "Beginner's" DVDs from Ceroc. :shake finger & tut:

When demonstrating a move or a routine, you should demonstrate it the way you expect your class to dance it. Eye contact and all.
Teaching is a different matter, because you should be making eye contact with your class to establish and maintain a teacher/student conection/


But then, so can closing your eyes and going "mmmm" in your partner's ear. :wink: whatever works for you.

I'll have to keep an eye out for you! :wink: :respect:

[TheTramp]

Teachers in particular have to pay attention to the room when teaching. And if your partner is looking around the room, you look and feel very strange trying to maintain eye-contact with them :rolleyes: So I can't image, as a demo, it's always easy to look into the eyes of your partner.

:yeah:

Also, it's sometimes useful as a teacher, when your demo spots something that people are doing wrong that you've missed....

[Yogi_Bear]

Eye contact is not normally an integral part of a MJ move and you cannot expect to impose it on people (talking about beginners especially here). Many beginners would be straight out of the door if you told them they had to maintain eye contact. Apart from anything else, they are probably too busy looking at what their feet are doing.

And of course the instructor and demo need to watch the class, see how people are coping, look out for common problems, and make it easy for the class to attract their attention if they need to ask questions. They are showing people a move, not trying to replicate the dance itself.

Having said that, it does depress me to see couples dancing freestyle with absolutely zero eye contact and absolutely no awareness of the other person's existence. I take that to mean they are hating every minute of it.

[Lee Bartholomew]

Doesn't mean they hate every minute of it. Might just mean they feel uncomfortable making eye contact, as discussed elsewhere in this thread.

[Yogi_Bear]

Doesn't mean they hate every minute of it. Might just mean they feel uncomfortable making eye contact, as discussed elsewhere in this thread.

Maybe, but I suspect not. You can look as though you are enjoying yourself and are aware of your partner without necessarily making much eye contact. You don't need to look miserable.

[Lee Bartholomew]

I see what you are saying and understand, but I know of dancers that look miserable permanatly. They are'nt but they just look that way. They could wet themselves laughing and still look like thay are at a funeral.

[Yogi_Bear]

I see what you are saying and understand, but I know of dancers that look miserable permanatly. They are'nt but they just look that way. They could wet themselves laughing and still look like thay are at a funeral.

Yes, that's who they are...:(

[David Bailey]

I see what you are saying and understand, but I know of dancers that look miserable permanatly. They are'nt but they just look that way. They could wet themselves laughing and still look like thay are at a funeral.
Ah yes, you've been to a Milonga then?

[Lee Bartholomew]

Ah yes, you've been to a Milonga then?

Nope. Danced in hastings.

[Jhutch]

Maybe, but I suspect not. You can look as though you are enjoying yourself and are aware of your partner without necessarily making much eye contact. You don't need to look miserable.

As someone who has often been told to 'cheer up', when i am already feeling quite happy, i would say that some people just naturally look a bit unhappy. Likewise, i have danced with women before who have looked quite unhappy when dancing with me. I assumed that they hadn't enjoyed it. Yet while standing by the side a few times i watched them dance with other men and saw exactly the same thing. So, either they had a rubbish evening or just weren't showing how much they were enjoying it (through concentrating?). (Or were just unfortunate enough to get asked by people like me a few times!:grin: ).

I have tried putting in eye contact a bit more but it is not something i feel comfortable with. I have enough problems doing everything else anyway. The time when i feel most comfortable is when doing something like an octopus as you are a decent distance apart at the time and you are about to completely lose any eye contact. Also, when you look at each other on the other side, there is a certain silliness to it. When i have danced with women who have kept up almost constant eye contact it has made me feel quite uncomfortable (they were both fairly inexperienced and their concentration on eye contact while thinking about everything else meant that they actually had quite an intense stare!).

[Lory]

I see what you are saying and understand, but I know of dancers that look miserable permanatly. They are'nt but they just look that way. They could wet themselves laughing and still look like thay are at a funeral.

I agree but I don't think it really justifies that it's OK though, does it? :sad:


I think what some people are failing to understand, is that the eye contact, isn't purely an aesthetic thing, meaning the way the dance looks, (it's just an added bonus that, as a result, it looks better) its a way of communicating.

Dance isn't 'all' about how 'you' feel, it's also about how the person you dancing with feels too... so how can 'you tell if they are also enjoying the dance, unless you look at them :confused:

Your partner might be looking to you to give a reassuring smile that they're doing OK, they don't necessarily want you to look at them as though you want to make love to them later. :rolleyes:

To me, it seems almost arrogant to just assume, that because your having the time of your life, that your partner must be too.

[Lee Bartholomew]

I agree.

Just saying (and I have a freind like it) some people just don't seem to have the physical ability to smile. Have danced with people I thought were really rude, only to notice they were like that all the time. Permanatly. During classes, during freestyle, arriving, leaving, at the bar etc.

It is off putting but once you know who these people are, you just have to accept it.

I can't smile. My face is made of wood.

[Lory]

Ah yes, you've been to a Milonga then?
Funnily enough, I have been told a few times, that I have an awfully stern Tango face :sad: :blush:

(through concentrating?).

And yes, its through sheer concentration! :devil: :blush:

[David Bailey]

Funnily enough, I have been told a few times, that I have an awfully stern Tango face :sad: :blush:
Good grief - the mind boggles. A "stern face" in Tango terms... :eek:

[TA Guy]

I think what some people are failing to understand, is that the eye contact, isn't purely an aesthetic thing, meaning the way the dance looks, (it's just an added bonus that, as a result, it looks better) its a way of communicating.


Yeah, I think that's part of the problem. Eye contact is used in many situations, flirting being one of them. I wouldn't be surprized if this is why a lot of people don't like eye contact, they are there to dance, and don't want to be misinterpreted (or at least, not with everybody :)). Just a theory.

[StokeBloke]

Eye contact is not normally an integral part of a MJ move and you cannot expect to impose it on people (talking about beginners especially here)...

<snip>
...Having said that, it does depress me to see couples dancing freestyle with absolutely zero eye contact and absolutely no awareness of the other person's existence. I take that to mean they are hating every minute of it.

So... it shouldn't be taught, but the dance is incomplete unless you have it? Well I imagine it depends on if you think that Ceroc teachers teach dancers to dance, or if they teach dancers dance moves? Because if you assume the former rather than the latter, eye contact is something that is intrinsic to dancing and therefore it must be taught. Holistic dance instruction rather than robotic move mimicking. I know which I would prefer to be involved with.

Personally, I see it as a bonus when my teacher says with his tongue in cheek style "now would be a great moment to look deeply into your partner's eyes and flash them a quick smile"! I guess there are ways to say things, and ways to say things ;)

[Yogi_Bear]

So... it shouldn't be taught, but the dance is incomplete unless you have it? Well I imagine it depends on if you think that Ceroc teachers teach dancers to dance, or if they teach dancers dance moves? Because if you assume the former rather than the latter, eye contact is something that is intrinsic to dancing and therefore it must be taught. Holistic dance instruction rather than robotic move mimicking. I know which I would prefer to be involved with.

Personally, I see it as a bonus when my teacher says with his tongue in cheek style "now would be a great moment to look deeply into your partner's eyes and flash them a quick smile"! I guess there are ways to say things, and ways to say things ;)

OK, Ceroc teachers' main task is to teach beginners to dance a series of steps, and to try to make sure they enjoy themselves enough to keep coming back. They do not teach beginners how to dance. A simple example - if they demonstrate moves to a piece of music what they are doing will not take account of breaks or changes of tempo. It's just steps danced to a beat. The interesting part is to move on to the wide world beyond steps or moves without context. You don't need much eye contact to dance modern jive, but you won't see it encouraged as part of the dance any more than you will see other important aspects covered in normal classes, thinking here of footwork, connection, frame, lead and follow, compression, tension, musicality, posture and so on......

[Yogi_Bear]

Yeah, I think that's part of the problem. Eye contact is used in many situations, flirting being one of them. I wouldn't be surprized if this is why a lot of people don't like eye contact, they are there to dance, and don't want to be misinterpreted (or at least, not with everybody :)). Just a theory.

Hey, some people are there to flirt a little.....it's a part of why people dance, surely....

[StokeBloke]

You don't need much eye contact to dance modern jive, but you won't see it encouraged as part of the dance any more than you will see other important aspects covered in normal classes, thinking here of footwork, connection, frame, lead and follow, compression, tension, musicality, posture and so on......

Obviously my dance teacher is a cut above the usual and I have been spoilt :)

I am only just starting out, so my experience of Ceroc dance teachers is very limited. I accept your comments, and I understand that my experience is not necessarily the norm. But I do feel really rather sad if what you describe is the experience of the many :(

[Yogi_Bear]

Obviously my dance teacher is a cut above the usual and I have been spoilt :)

I am only just starting out, so my experience of Ceroc dance teachers is very limited. I accept your comments, and I understand that my experience is not necessarily the norm. But I do feel really rather sad if what you describe is the experience of the many :(

Well, eye contact isn't something that is discussed or encouraged in other styles of dance, either, so I'm not trying to single out modern jive in that respect. What MJ has been really successful at is getting lots of people out onto the dance floor who wouldn't otherwise be there, and I have to congratulate MJ for that.

[Lory]

Yeah, I think that's part of the problem. Eye contact is used in many situations, flirting being one of them. I wouldn't be surprized if this is why a lot of people don't like eye contact, they are there to dance, and don't want to be misinterpreted (or at least, not with everybody :)). Just a theory.

I think you may just have hit the nail on the head ;)

Its all in the interpretation :wink:

[SeriouslyAddicted]

I am very aware that I have been bad at making eye contact in the past so I conciously make an effort to look at my partner lots now - unless I feel really uncomfortable with the person I am dancing with. I have also been told that I look miserable when I am dancing so please if I dance with any of you don't take it personally - I am probably loving the dance I have just got my concentrating face on! Trouble is until someone tells you, a lot of people probably don't realise that they aren't smiling or making eye contact so I would suggest a light hearted comment to anyone who isn't might just be enough to make them aware it.

[David Bailey]

Well, eye contact isn't something that is discussed or encouraged in other styles of dance, either.
Mmm.... I think it's briefly touched on, at least culturally in salsa - the different styles do have different implicit conventions for eye contact.

And head position / direction of eyes is also covered explicitly and regularly (if not consistently), in Tango classes.

[Lee Bartholomew]

I am very aware that I have been bad at making eye contact in the past so I conciously make an effort to look at my partner lots now - unless I feel really uncomfortable with the person I am dancing with. I have also been told that I look miserable when I am dancing so please if I dance with any of you don't take it personally - I am probably loving the dance I have just got my concentrating face on! Trouble is until someone tells you, a lot of people probably don't realise that they aren't smiling or making eye contact so I would suggest a light hearted comment to anyone who isn't might just be enough to make them aware it.

You always look scared when we dance? Whys that? :rofl:

[SeriouslyAddicted]

You always look scared when we dance? Whys that? :rofl:

Can't imagine :wink:

[Gav]

You always look scared when we dance? Whys that? :rofl:


Can't imagine :wink:

I've seen the video clips, I'd be scared :D Mind you, you might have trouble throwing me around like that! :what:

[Lee Bartholomew]

I've seen the video clips, I'd be scared :D Mind you, you might have trouble throwing me around like that! :what:

I'd be willing to give it a go. How brave are you?

[Gypsy Rose]

...... You don't need much eye contact to dance modern jive, but you won't see it encouraged as part of the dance any more than you will see other important aspects covered in normal classes, thinking here of footwork, connection, frame, lead and follow, compression, tension, musicality, posture and so on......


I have to say that all of the above are taught at every class in my area! I think much of this is more important than the actual move. The above are the bits that make the dance enjoyable and feel like dancing. How can anyone learn how to dance without first learning about lead and follow and tension!!!!!:what:

[Gav]

I'd be willing to give it a go. How brave are you?

Only if you work on your eye contact first :D

[Yogi_Bear]

I have to say that all of the above are taught at every class in my area! I think much of this is more important than the actual move. The above are the bits that make the dance enjoyable and feel like dancing. How can anyone learn how to dance without first learning about lead and follow and tension!!!!!:what:
then you have been very fortunate, I should have started to learn MJ where you are...:nice:

[Lee Bartholomew]

Only if you work on your eye contact first :D

Gav, if I danced with you I would be able to do nothing but make eye contact with you.:awe: :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Gav]

Gav, if I danced with you I would be able to do nothing but make eye contact with you.:awe: :rofl::rofl::rofl:

So you'd just stand there and stare at me. Unusual dancing style, but it takes all sorts I suppose! :na: :rofl:

[Lee Bartholomew]

So you'd just stand there and stare at me. Unusual dancing style, but it takes all sorts I suppose! :na: :rofl:

Apart with the odd spin or 7 thrown in.

[StokeBloke]

With my new found confidence (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9797) I made loads of eye contact last night. I found it improved my dancing ten fold - not hard I know! :rolleyes: I could not believe the difference something so simple can make. I wasn't dancing around holding some one's hand, I was dancing with them.

It seemed to help the girls better work out what I was doing, it made all the moves easier, created giggles in the comb parts - which became much more fun, and I found the ladies became soooo much more forgiving! I wouldn't be as crass as to say they were like putty in my hands.... but they kind of were :wink:

If you are hesitant, clumsy and a bit shy like me, all I can say is... just do it! It makes everything just so much easier and oodles more fun. All this stuff about looking at the bridge of their nose and things.... forget it... just look at your partner as they whizz past your ear with a grin and they seem more than happy to smile back in return (or were they grimacing... oh my!). If you are at a loose end tonight, why not come to Stafford and dance with me, I promise to give you lots of spins, smiles and I'll try not to tread on you :grin:

In summary then. Scattered smiles, with outbreaks of giggles spreading from the south. :cool:

I love dancing :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Lee Bartholomew]

Been working on eye contact but no one really done it back.

Took a lesson from Strictly Sinful's Mikey yeasterday (was pretty lame though) and eye contact wasn't mentioned once!!??

[David Bailey]

Took a lesson from Strictly Sinful's Mikey yeasterday (was pretty lame though)
Good grief, you realise you're agreeing with Andy McGregor there? :eek:

And you're dicing with Death, or at least Fletch, if you diss Mikey :na:

[Lee Bartholomew]

Good grief, you realise you're agreeing with Andy McGregor there? :eek:

And you're dicing with Death, or at least Fletch, if you diss Mikey :na:

Didn't realise that. I take it all back. :rofl:

not dissing him. He took a class on behalf of a local teacher and was prob asked to tame it down (average age of 90 odd). Will def try and get to some more of his lessons as i enjoy something diffrent from time to time.

[Trouble]

Been working on eye contact but no one really done it back.

Took a lesson from Strictly Sinful's Mikey yeasterday (was pretty lame though) and eye contact wasn't mentioned once!!??

if there is one thing Mikey isn't its lame. Even i would be bashful about making eye contact with him... well thats actually a lie but you get my point. :respect: :D

[Lee Bartholomew]

It was a little more spicy than your average class but nothing risque or even bordering on naughty. The only move that was slightly naughty involved rubbing a hand down ladies thigh.

I know that his classes are normally alot better than that but as I said, I expect he was asked to keep it tame due to the classes being made up of a very high percentage of pensioners.

[Mythical]

I try to make eye contact when i'm dancing. I've found that I felt most comfortable when it was a case of just catching your partners eye every once in a while.
A couple of times, I've found the person I'm dancing with looking right through me, spending the whole dance fixated on someone in the opposite corner of the floor, or with a grim expression on their face. I'm pretty sure I'm not THAT bad...even for a total beginner!

The best dances I've had have always been with guys who were smiling, so I try to emulate them in that respect and let the eye contact thing do as it may!

[Jhutch]

I try to make eye contact when i'm dancing. I've found that I felt most comfortable when it was a case of just catching your partners eye every once in a while.
A couple of times, I've found the person I'm dancing with looking right through me, spending the whole dance fixated on someone in the opposite corner of the floor, or with a grim expression on their face. I'm pretty sure I'm not THAT bad...even for a total beginner!



It is possible that they are just concentrating:) (dont know if your last line was supposed to be serious or not:blush: )

[Mythical]

About Smiling? Yeah, totally serious!

About the grim expression and not being that bad, partially. I could well be THAT bad! Wouldn't expect a Taxi dance to be deep in concentration on beginner moves, though! (though he could be concentrating on remembering who was in the revue class and who his next vict....errr....partner is, I guess!)

[Twirlie Bird]

Eye contact makes a huge difference. I always try to make lots of it. Some guys get more than others though! :blush:

I really hate it when the guy doesn't look back at you. For the follower it seems like they are bored but in reality I guess they are just concentrating.

[Dorothy]

I really hate it when the guy doesn't look back at you. For the follower it seems like they are bored but in reality I guess they are just concentrating.
Me too! Lots of Edinburgh men look at the floor when they dance.
If I don't know my partner, I often look in the general direction of their face, it's more polite, less intense.

[David Bailey]

Me too! Lots of Edinburgh men look at the floor when they dance.
We're trying to make sure we don't trip over our feet :blush:

It's a classic beginner mistake in all dance forms - I know I do it a lot in Tango. It does terrible things to your posture, I know :tears:

[frodo]

Me too! Lots of Edinburgh men look at the floor when they dance...... We're trying to make sure we don't trip over our feet ..Perhaps more likely they're looking at the ladies feet (or shoes).

Not exactly eye contact, but it does have some benefits for the ladies.

[Daisy Chain]

A couple of times, I've found the person I'm dancing with looking right through me, spending the whole dance fixated on someone in the opposite corner of the floor, or with a grim expression on their face. I'm pretty sure I'm not THAT bad...even for a total beginner!



I was guilty of this last night. I was asked to dance by a man the same height. He chewed gum with his mouth open for the entire 3 minutes *shudders* My vision was filled with his moving white wad. It wasn't nice. I was looking at the ceiling, the floor, other men, other women.............anywhere but at him.

I think he may have noticed. I'm not expecting him to ask me ever again.

Daisy

(A Revolted Little Flower)

[Trouble]

We're trying to make sure we don't trip over our feet :blush:

It's a classic beginner mistake in all dance forms - I know I do it a lot in Tango. It does terrible things to your posture, I know :tears:

oh so thats why ! Thought you was in pain. :wink: :na:

[SteveK]

I was guilty of this last night. I was asked to dance by a man the same height. He chewed gum with his mouth open for the entire 3 minutes *shudders* My vision was filled with his moving white wad. It wasn't nice. I was looking at the ceiling, the floor, other men, other women.............anywhere but at him.

:yeah: Must admit I'm not a huge fan of chewing gum; I know that this is a little off topic, but isn't it a bit rude to be masticating when dancing with someone?

[David Bailey]

oh so thats why ! Thought you was in pain. :wink: :na:
It wasn't easy to see my feet, I had some obstructions in the way.

[Trouble]

It wasn't easy to see my feet, I had some obstructions in the way.

Think the words your looking for are man breasts..... :awe: :awe:

ONLY JOKING PLEASE DONT START IM A DELICATE FLOWER, IVE ALREADY BEEN CALLED UGLY.!!!

[StokeBloke]

:yeah: Must admit I'm not a huge fan of chewing gum; I know that this is a little off topic, but isn't it a bit rude to be masticating when dancing with someone?
I don't mind people masticating when they dance with me, so long as they don't make a mess :wink: I would rather have eye contact with a complete masticator than no eye contact with a non-chewer.

Remember some folks use the stuff to give up smoking. I think it's better to chew on the floor than smoke by the entrance way, and come back and smell stale and horrid with everyone you dance with :whistle:

[jivecat]

Remember some folks use the stuff to give up smoking. I think it's better to chew on the floor than smoke by the entrance way, and come back and smell stale and horrid with everyone you dance with :whistle:

True, but they could be a bit more discreet, rather than treating us to the full tumble dryer effect described so graphically by Ms Chain. (I think I've danced with him as well.:sick: )

[Trousers]

. . . {Snip} He chewed gum with his mouth open for the entire 3 minutes *shudders* {Snip}. . . . Daisy


Chewing Gum is the New Smoking!

Some women look so nonplussed as they dance and chew they could be lay down in a field ruminating.

No, No and Thrice No!

It must be used to keep their brains inactive in case they found they enjoyed dancing.

It looks HORRIBLE don't do it! Stick it behind your ear or the bedpost as Lonnie Donnegan suggested but don't dance chewing at some one!

[Daisy Chain]

True, but they could be a bit more discreet, rather than treating us to the full tumble dryer effect described so graphically by Ms Chain. (I think I've danced with him as well.:sick: )

Aha! Does your one (inadvisably) wear black and white shoes too?

[jivecat]

Aha! Does your one (inadvisably) wear black and white shoes too?

They're always inadvisable, IMO. I don't think I've noticed his feet, can't think why!

[Trousers]

So. . . .

Apart from
. . . . . . Not Smoking
. . . . . . . . . . . . . .Not Chewing
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Not Wearing Spats
. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . and Trying to make Eye Contact

What can your Partner do for you?

:devil: :flower:

[Trousers]

Oh yeah


Don't wear Shorts
. . . . . . .Don't wear Vests


How could I possibly forget those two chestnuts?

[Trousers]

Damn!


There's always watch out for other dancers!

[Trousers]

ooooh with all these things to worry about I may drop the smiling inanely and just stick with a neutral face!

No one will complain about that will they?

[pmjd]

Neutral faces are very scary to dance with, you have no idea wheather your doing the right thing, wrong thing etc....remember dancing with someone who had a full face mask on at the Brechin masked ball, couldn't make out any facial expressions and felt really strange:really:

Eye contact can be very good but it depends if your partner is comfortable with it, think I inadvertantly scared a few people with too much eye contact after going to ceroc straight from an argentine tango lesson:rofl:

[SteveK]

ooooh with all these things to worry about I may drop the smiling inanely and just stick with a neutral face!

No one will complain about that will they?

No, but if you were to have bad BO, they wouldn't even need to look at you to be affected :wink:

(Not that I'm insinuating anything at all - I'm sure that you smell just lovely...)