Competition Snobbery

[Lory]

Do you think people who have never entered a competition or who don't even aspire to be in one are thought any less of, or even looked down on in the dance community?

And, what do you think of people entering, who haven't got a hope in hells chance of winning?
Do you think they are GREAT for entering in the spirit of things and give great entertainment value, even if its just to have a snigger at? Or, are they wasting the judges and the serious contenders precious time?

Do you think they have an over inflated opinion of themselves and they enter actually thinking they stand a chance?

As someone who's never entered one and doesn't aspire to be in one but I DO admire people who do!

I'd be interested to hear

[Pammy]

I used to feel that those who entered competitions looked down on those who didn't. I don't think that is so much the case anymore, but was unfortunately a result of the venue I was (at that stage) dancing at, where those entering considered themselves to be better and so everyone else assumed they were. A lot of people out there don't realise that anyone can have a go; that's the great thing about it.

If someone hasn't got a hope in hell of winning, then I say, Good Luck to them. That's great that they are standing up there and giving it their all, which is all that counts. I hope the judges don't think they're wasting their time; afterall, we must all start somewhere and whoever we are, there will always be people better than us and people who are worse than us.

I would say that they enter because they think they do stand a chance (at least I hope that's the case). Or perhaps they just enjoy the social side of competing. It is nice to travel around the country and end up somewhere you've never been before to do something you enjoy and to get there and see all the familiar faces. When we go away to compete it's like a mini holiday and we have a great time; that's the best bit of it all for me, just bonding with those people around you and having a jolly good time (just don't eat prawn sandwiches :sick: and if you have fish and chips in Brighton, check for a deep fried cockroach at the bottom of your chip cone before eating :tears: )

Pamster
x

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Lory
As someone who's never entered one and doesn't aspire to be in one

Careful Lory, even the most committed non-competers can find themselves waking up one morning thinking, "Hmmm, I wonder..."

Never say never...

:devil:

Chris

[Lory]

Originally posted by ChrisA
Careful Lory, even the most committed non-competers can find themselves waking up one morning thinking, "Hmmm, I wonder..."

Never say never...

:devil:

Chris

NEVER! :D

[JamesGeary]

Originally posted by Lory
Do you think people who have never entered a competition or who don't even aspire to be in one are thought any less of, or even looked down on in the dance community?


The thought never occured to me that people who enter competitions could be considered more skilled than ones that don't.

In fact I wouldn't have a clue who are competition enterers and who aren't at most nights. I couldn't imagine anyone caring.

[Gus]

Originally posted by JamesGeary
In fact I wouldn't have a clue who are competition enterers and who aren't at most nights. I couldn't image anyone caring.

Probably comes back to teh debate ... Why do people do MJ.

There are those who like the social thing, those that like to just have a laugh .. and those who either want to rank themselves against others and/or love being the centre of attention and in the spotlight ...... and all the shades in between:grin:

I think there is an element of dancers who look down on others ... but thats not neccsarily due then being in competition .. its just human nature ... some people are naturally up their own a**, regardless of how good they really are.:devil: :devil:

[Minnie M]

Originally posted by Lory
Do you think people who have never entered a competition or who don't even aspire to be in one are thought any less of, or even looked down on in the dance community?
.................Do you think they have an over inflated opinion of themselves and they enter actually thinking they stand a chance?


I am SURE (IMO) that there are a lot of dancers in the Advance that really should be in the Intermediate, because of an inflated opinion of themselves.

AND there are a few past winners. who now feel they are above dancing with the likes of the average dancer now ! (unless they are slim and lovely of course)

(I have my own problems as time is getting nearer, I am feeling very nervous as I have seen some really great 'older' dancers, so I am training my mind to think of it as a bit of competitive fun).

[Bill]

Originally posted by Pammy

I would say that they enter because they think they do stand a chance (at least I hope that's the case). Or perhaps they just enjoy the social side of competing.
Pamster
x

I think most must enter for enjoyment because realistically only a handful of people must really believe they can win. The Intermediate comps are often more open because the 'best' tend to move up and in the past it was highly likely that J & C would win but with Lily, Amir, James et al now entering both the Advanced and the Open in London are much more competitive but the winners , for the time being, are likely to come from a handful of dancers.

But everyone has to make a start somewhere and some of the best dancers in Scotland don't compete and have no interest in competing. As someone who has no chance of ever winning a freestyle event and who doesn't relaly enjoy the experience I have to contemplate why on earth I do it :what: :rolleyes:

[Jon L]

Lory - I think most of us who are regular social dancers do not fall in to the looking down on others category - I don't that's for sure

I entered with someone the ceroc champs last year at Intermediate for the first time to see how far I would get, I was suprised and pleased to make it into the second round at the first attempt. She doesn't want to do it this year so I may not enter it this time as I need to find a new partner.

Finding a competition partner is a bit different to social dancing as you have to be happy with that persons rhythm etc. an out of synch couple will stick out a mile.

I have entered two team cabarets with my friends. That although hardwork was a lot of fun and it was good to see other members who were less experienced dance wise than I am progress and be encouraged. We were rewarded with a very suprise win at last years Britroc champs in Hove, (we did feel sorry for Nottingham though as we have felt disappointment ourselves back in May). Sue McGregor said to me last weekend, she got the impression I am a team dancer man (I like D-T as well) and not an individualist - she's probably right.

Sadly though there are some individual couples who have been called Hotshots in previous threads who perceive themselves "the elite" who will not mix and ask others to dance, and will be loathed to dance with anyone else outside their circle.

This is not true however of the real champions for example last Saturday I danced with Janine Myers (open ceroc champion) she very happy to dance with me, which I really appreciated (thanks :nice: ) Nina, and Lily are exactly the same.

It is nice to compete once in a while but I am not into touring the country competing for titles, I'd much rather dance socially.

My advice to anyone is give it a go - winning is not the objective, and to anyone who does not have a regular partner try the Dance with a stranger competitions for fun and see how far you get.

[Sheepman]

Originally posted by Jon L
Finding a competition partner is a bit different to social dancing as you have to be happy with that persons rhythm etc. And if you're planning to take it at all seriously, and do stuff like practice together :what: and criticize each other, then you've also got to get on really well (obvious really?)

Like Andy has said, you should only be competing while it's fun, OK winning is bound to be fun, but few of us can expect that. I have all sorts of concerns about doing competitions and how it affects my social dancing (which is far more important to me), but have had wonderful comments from old :confused: partners at how my social dancing has changed for the better over the last year, while I've been working at the improvements needed for competing.

I still have the "problem" that in the weeks leading up to a competition, I dance with far fewer partners than usual, but I'm dead lucky in having two competition partners who are both fantastic dancers, and it's going to take a long long time before I'd be dancing with them and not having fun.

So do competitors "look down" on other dancers? Well I suppose most of us look up to various dancers, including those that win competitions, so does the reverse apply? Most of the winners that I know are especially modest about their abilities (Rachel especially!!!) so by "looking down" do we mean that they consider people are not worthy of dancing with them? If so, we are back to the "hotshots" argument, and hopefully that label applies only to a very small minority.
If we mean that we consider ourselves better dances than others, surely all of us consider we are better than some, (and worse than most :tears: ). In my book that is not the same as "looking down" on someone.

Greg

[Chris]

I don't think competition dancers look down on non-competition dancers, but I can see how the latter might think they do.

Competition dancing brings out a different side of your dancing, a 'performance' style side, which is great fun for its own sake, even if no-one's watching! Like any hobby (and competition style dancing isn't for everyone), as you get into it you may relate to others of the same tendency in a slightly different way to others - it's something you share, after all. For some people it means caring about whether you get a movement 'right' (whatever that is) as opposed to just dancing with people for the social interaction alone.

The problems with jive competitions have been enumerated by other people in other threads. I can see a lot more point in learning to dance 'competition style' than I can in actually entering jive competitions. And having your mates appreciate you or cheer you on is maybe more fun than winning if you like that sort of thing. But it's good to have been there done that in one sense at least - it stops those (who look down on people, if there are such people) from looking down on you and slagging off your dancing once you've won something, and it gives you the confidence (justified or not) that you're dancing can't be all that sh*te if you've got an award on the mantlepiece.

As to the jolly luvvies that constantly say "we only do it for the fun - not like those people who beat me at the last competition or will probably beat me at the next one" (my italics added) - I think they're kidding themselves - everyone does it for fun. Dance professionals generally aren't bothered much with modern jive.

People go through phases with competitions for different reasons - it's not that big a deal and not a pronouncement from on high if people win or don't win - people go through phases with different dance styles as well, or going to weekends or workshops - do whatever seems right for you. Some jivers might look 'down' on you if you don't do salsa; some jivers definitely look down on jivers that don't do lindy - it's just from their point of view at that time - there's nothing particularly objective in it as far as I can tell.

[Gary]

One of the guys in Sydney (Adam) doesn't compete (except in teams), but the girls queue up to dance with him and sigh "now that's dancing" afterwards. I've got a second place trophy in a competition. Just you guess which dancer I'd rather be :wink:

Not sure why I enter comps. I'd be very very very surprised if I ever placed again, and I'm more keen now on interpretation than on flash moves, which handicaps me further for competition (unless I get really really good at it, but I'm not holding my breath). I like the idea of getting my dancing smoother and sharper, and a looming competition is good motivation for that. I like watching the comp, and competing is usually the only way to get a decent dance on the day of the comp (competitors get space to dance).

Looking down on someone is a pretty weak way of feeling better about yourself, and being a better competition dancer than someone is a pretty weak reason for looking down on them. I'm envious of the fabulous competition dancers, though, I'd love to look that sharp.

[LilyB]

Originally posted by Gary
One of the guys in Sydney (Adam) doesn't compete (except in teams), but the girls queue up to dance with him and sigh "now that's dancing" afterwards. I've got a second place trophy in a competition. Just you guess which dancer I'd rather be :wink: . . . That Adam is divine , that's why. :drool: I'm surprised he doesn't compete - where's his Aussie spirit? :confused: :devil:
And Gary - you're not half bad yourself :yum: :wink: :D

LilyB

[Martin]

Great thread Lory,

I really do not think comp dancing puts you above anyone on the "social dance scene". It is a different type of dancing and can be fun. Not a huge reflection on being a cool social dancer.

A class I went to last week was at a fairly new venue and had lots of beginners. In the consolidation class (for beginners when the intermedite class is on) they had far too many ladies, so all the "competition" guys went out to help in the consolidation class, and then made a point of dancing with them all after the class.


The main "snobery" I come across is those Lindy or Salsa dancers who say "oh, you don't do Lindy/Salsa" as if you have grown a second head.
:blush: :blush:

[Easter Bunny]

Great thread Lory,

I really do not think comp dancing puts you above anyone on the "social dance scene". It is a different type of dancing and can be fun. Not a huge reflection on being a cool social dancer.

A class I went to last week was at a fairly new venue and had lots of beginners. In the consolidation class (for beginners when the intermedite class is on) they had far too many ladies, so all the "competition" guys went out to help in the consolidation class, and then made a point of dancing with them all after the class.


The main "snobery" I come across is those Lindy or Salsa dancers who say "oh, you don't do Lindy/Salsa" as if you have grown a second head.
:blush: :blush:

Just experienced a fair bit of 'Lindy' snobbery at the 1940's Newbury Ball (Ginger jive) the weekend. There weren't many jivers, mostly Lindy/Swing dancers, but lots of them just gave my friends and me this look of "don't you dare ask me to dance - I am a Lindy 'expert' " when all we wanted to do was try to have a go for one track. A couple of men did succomb to our wiles, but as we started to dance - all made the comment "oh your not lindy are you!" and beat a hasty retreat as soon as the track ended. Only one partner bit the bullet and asked me for a second track, which gave me the opportunity to put right what I messed up on the first track and hopefully we both enjoyed it. We paid £18 a ticket and apart from dances with the two girls I went along with I only had 3 different partners all night - when I normally hardly sit down all night!

FANTASTIC CABARET AT THE BALL! Thanks to Andy & Rena, Dan & Christie and the Rock Bottoms Team who were all brilliant as usual.

There is definately snobbery about 'levels' of dancing as many girls, including myself have experienced the look of "you are asking ME to dance" when asking someone (who usually competes at a high standard) to dance or someone that 'thinks' he's better than you.

[Bill]

There is definately snobbery about 'levels' of dancing as many girls, including myself have experienced the look of "you are asking ME to dance" when asking someone (who usually competes at a high standard) to dance or someone that 'thinks' he's better than you.



This has been raised several times over the last couple of years and unfortunately it is true but thankfully doesn't happen that often in mj. There was a rather lengthy discussion about 'London snobbery' and 'elite' groups but in most clubs the majority of dancers are happy to dance with anyone :D

I know that less experienced dancers can be intimidated by 'better' dancers especially those who do win competitions. I still have real problems asking women who dance ( and often win) Advanced or Open comps so it's all relative.

And not all dancers who compete - or who do well in comps are the 'best' ( as has been stated pretty frequently). In Edinburgh women love dancing with Roy (when he's back), smooth Gilbert, Brian, William and several others and although Gilbert has been placed with Lyndsey in the lindy comp in Blackpool none of these men have been placed in a major mj comp (as far as I'm aware). And yet all of them are wonderful dancers and I know they are rarely off the floor and happy to dance with anyone regardless of their ability or experience.

If anyone out there hasn't danced with these guys then get up to Edinburgh and enjoy the experience. :cheers: :cool:

[Sparkles]

I used to experience a lot of this on the ballroom scene (one of the reasons I've stopped doing that for a while).
I also found it quite prevelant in the West Country MJ scene - not necessarily competition dancers, but definitely elite groups that wouldn't dance with anyone else...
Luckily on the MJ scene in London there are so many people that you're only likely to know who the competition dancers are if you go to comps. If you don't everyone is as friendly as everyone else when they are social dancing and therefore good fun to dance with!

S. x

[Andy McGregor]

Luckily on the MJ scene in London there are so many people that you're only likely to know who the competition dancers are if you go to comps. If you don't everyone is as friendly as everyone else when they are social dancing and therefore good fun to dance with!

S. x

Also, most of the competition dancers in MJ aren't snobs about their dancing:clap: The main area of snobbery I've found has been from attractive women not finding me attractive:tears:

[Minnie M]

Just experienced a fair bit of 'Lindy' snobbery at the 1940's Newbury Ball (Ginger jive) the weekend. There weren't many jivers, mostly Lindy/Swing dancers...........

Really :really: - I went to Newbury on Saturday and I am a MJ dancer who can do a little bit of Lindy, however the girl I went with IS a Lindy dancer. We both found that the majority of the dancers were BEGINNER Lindy dancers (not even as experienced as me :blush: ) There was only a handful of experienced Lindy dancers and they were dancing with everyone (eg: Andy Fleming / Paul Cox - both teachers)

It is quite difficult if you know both styles to switch off swing steps when dancing MJ to a swing track as I did on my first dance which was with Sherif.
(great dance tho - but there again he is a master :worthy: )

CONCLUSION:
IMO the snobbery is the "compentent" :whistle: MJ dancers TRYING to do Lindy and thinking they are a lot better than they really are (up there own whatsits)

bit like me when I gave up smoking telling everyone "Filthy habit, I don't smoke" :rofl:

[ElaineB]

Just experienced a fair bit of 'Lindy' snobbery at the 1940's Newbury Ball (Ginger jive) the weekend. There weren't many jivers, mostly Lindy/Swing dancers, but lots of them just gave my friends and me this look of "don't you dare ask me to dance - I am a Lindy 'expert' " when all we wanted to do was try to have a go for one track. A couple of men did succomb to our wiles, but as we started to dance - all made the comment "oh your not lindy are you!" and beat a hasty retreat as soon as the track ended. Only one partner bit the bullet and asked me for a second track, which gave me the opportunity to put right what I messed up on the first track and hopefully we both enjoyed it. We paid £18 a ticket and apart from dances with the two girls I went along with I only had 3 different partners all night - when I normally hardly sit down all night!

FANTASTIC CABARET AT THE BALL! Thanks to Andy & Rena, Dan & Christie and the Rock Bottoms Team who were all brilliant as usual.

There is definately snobbery about 'levels' of dancing as many girls, including myself have experienced the look of "you are asking ME to dance" when asking someone (who usually competes at a high standard) to dance or someone that 'thinks' he's better than you.


They obviously hadn't seen your wiggle in action!! You missed out boys!!

Funniest bit of 'cross dancing' that I did was at Hipsters. I had just returned from a visit 'outside' and was walking up the stairs when 'Latin Lovers' came on........grabbed the first guy that I came to and to my delight he accepted. Poor chap - we came off the floor knowing that it was probably the worst dance that either of us had ever had! He was a Lindy Hopper and I just can't do that (never had a lesson!) - he couldn't adjust to my style - latinish - outcome? It was awful! :rofl: We just laughed and apologised to each other - never had a dance with him since - much to his relief I am sure! :rofl:


Elaine

[Rachel]

... (Rachel especially!!!) ... Oh Greg, you mean me??? You are just so nice and so flattering! My win with you was the highlight of my year - but you would have won that regardless of who you were dancing with. Just look at your record!! I'm hardly a 'competion person' - bear in mind that I was knocked out first round of the Blackpool Open and didn't make it to the finals in the Ceroc Intermediate - both with absolutely amazing partners. Understandably, though, as I realise I would have to drastically change my dancing to get anywhere - more 'outward projection/presentation' I think, and an ability to change my style according to the music ...

To Lory, I agree with ChrisA - never say never! Up until this year, I was completely a 'will never do completitions' person. But I always loved going to watch and now I think I may continue to compete - I enjoy the way it makes you feel so much more involved, and (especially with me being so lazy) gives you the incentive to focus and improve on your dancing.

Lory, you are such a lovely dancer to watch - I think that if you ever decided to compete, you would do brilliantly!
Rachel

[Lory]

To Lory, I agree with ChrisA - never say never!


I'm still saying never BUT maybe, just maybe, one day, if it was impromtu and I'd had enough dutch courage, I might do a DWAS, only cos I can blame my partner if it all goes pair shaped! :whistle: :rofl:


Lory, you are such a lovely dancer to watch - I think that if you ever decided to compete, you would do brilliantly!

Seriously though, as much as I love you Rachel, you do talk **** sometimes. :D :hug:

I know that, as some people on here have said before (maybe not in this context) that as soon as a competitor has walked on the floor, they're judged, even before they've danced. Wrong I know but true I fear! There's a 'look' you have to have and I just ain't got it! :sick:

But I'm a great social dancer! :blush: :clap:

[Andy McGregor]

There's a 'look' you have to have and I just ain't got it! :sick:

Don't sell yourself short. You've got a great 'look' and loads of people like looking:flower:

..and I'm sure that includes the judges :waycool:

[Pammy]

There's a 'look' you have to have and I just ain't got it! :sick:

I agree to some extent. I think to win (1-3) you have to have "the look", but you could still get placed up to 6th without it, and a 6th would do me just fine :grin:

As for you not having the look, I'm not so sure. You've certainly got "the hair" and "the trousers with the split" :yum: so I think you should give it a go :clap:

[Rachel]

Curious, Pammy & Lory - by 'look', are we talking about physical appearance, or do we mean the way you present yourself/exude style/confidence, etc?
R.

[under par]

Don't sell yourself short. You've got a great 'look' and loads of people like looking:flower:

..and I'm sure that includes the judges :waycool:

Here here!!
C'mon Lory have a go some time soon at dance with a stranger. After all there none stranger than me..

I've only ever done 2 dwas comps. It is a different animal to social dancing but even at the lower end it is fun. It introduces slightly different discipines for both leader and follower. Fixed grin for a start :D :D :D

Like all aspects of life Lory it is the doing that creates the experience.

I have reservations about all sports including MJ where the competitions are won by subjective voting because like beauty it is the eye of the beholder that is imperative.

There is no doubt who the winner of the 100 metres sprint is, the person who breaks the tape is the winner.

With MJ and all other subjective voting sports it is an opinion based result.

There must be times in all these activities where competitors compete to the absolute MAX and others who compete well but not to their MAX. who wins??

Not neccesarily the best on the day. It will be down to the arbitraters of voting to decide who in their opinion was the best. Like all opinions they are not universally shared and so there is always counter opinions. Just listen to all the opinions and counter opinions about who was good, better and best in Jive masters heats. (And there are only 5 couples to choose from!!)

I think I'm getting a bit too deep here so I will wrap it up by saying Lory give it a try because it is there to do and it is different discipline from social dancing.
It is fun, it should always be fun and if you get away from any anticipation of winning, and enjoy the comp dance it adds to the participaion of the day and experience of life.

I love dancing with you sore leg or not :hug: hope it gets better soon

[DavidB]

"the trousers with the split"I realised this half way through the first round, so did something about it...

[Pammy]

I realised this half way through the first round,

so did the rest of us :devil: :innocent: :clap:

[Lory]

Curious, Pammy & Lory - by 'look', are we talking about physical appearance, or do we mean the way you present yourself/exude style/confidence, etc?
R.
For some reason, the following does NOT apply to men! :angry:

The 'look'....

She walks onto the floor with grace and confidence!

She has a dancers frame! Petite and lithe!

Her posture and deportment are elegant, she looks like a DANCER! :waycool:

She has a pleasing face!

She engages with the audience and smiles effortlessly!

She looks good in her competition costume, i.e. she wears it well! :worthy:

She's got me noticing her!!!!!

and this is before she's even danced a single step! I think your lying to yourselves if you think that none of this matters to u! :rolleyes:

[Pammy]

Curious, Pammy & Lory - by 'look', are we talking about physical appearance, or do we mean the way you present yourself/exude style/confidence, etc?
R.

I have always had trouble with my shape. Anyone who's seen me recently knows I've piled on weight :tears: but even at my thinnest when I was managing to get out dancing about 4 nights a week :clap: I was still not happy with my shape and nor do I think I was the sort of shape that would look good on the winners stand. All my outfits have been almost impossible to find. At my smallest, say I had a size 8 waist, I still had (men, don't read this bit), a size 14 bum and thighs :tears: , so nothing I buy off the peg fits (I'm a horribly odd shape). This is something I've always been really conscious of, fat or thin. This means I can't wear the sort of outfits that catch the eye - the skirts about an inch long, all those lovely little numbers you see in top-shop etc.

It's so disappointing going onto the floor with all the girls who can wear the really nice tight trousers and mini-skirts and there I am in my home-made ones. With my size/shape that has never been possible and a lot of moves that are easy with a lightweight. So many people don't even try doing moves with me that they would happily do with someone else for the first time so that tells me that it's my shape/weight that's the problem. My height doesn't help either.

Larger dancers can move just as well as thinner ones and have as much style, confidence (if that is in their personality), but they still don't have "the look" that is expected regardless of your dancing ability. It's a shame, but it's true...

[RobC]

I think to win (1-3) you have to have "the look", but you could still get placed up to 6th without it,
Hmm, does this explain why my best placing in recent competitions was when Trampy, Andy and I came 4th in the 2003 Blackpool double trouble :rofl:

[Lory]

Hmm, does this explain why my best placing in recent competitions was when Trampy, Andy and I came 4th in the 2003 Blackpool double trouble :rofl:

As I said! For some strange reason, IT DOES NOT APPLY TO MEN! :angry:

[RobC]

As I said! For some strange reason, IT DOES NOT APPLY TO MEN! :angry:
Yes, but Andy was hardly dressed as a Man, was he :sick:

Personally, I would say the look has more to do with the whole package portrayed by the couple as a whole. Granted, the follower may be responsible for a slightly larger percentage of 'the look', but that is because us guys are only there to make you look good :waycool:
:flower: :hug:

[Lory]

The 'look'....

She walks onto the floor with grace and confidence!

She has a dancers frame! Petite and lithe!

Her posture and deportment are elegant, she looks like a DANCER! :waycool:

She has a pleasing face!

She engages with the audience and smiles effortlessly!

She looks good in her competition costume, i.e. she wears it well! :worthy:

She's got me noticing her!!!!!

and this is before she's even danced a single step!

ROb read this again! It IS Andy! :rofl: :rofl:

I might change the word dancer to Prancer though! :whistle:
Luv u Andy! :flower:

[Rachel]

To Pammy and Lory - again. You're both mad!! You have both got a fantastic 'look' - incredibly pretty, lovely shape (even if you're not size 6 waifs - is that attractive anyway?), great smiles and attractive personality that just shines out.

This is absolutely true and I know that all the friends we have in common would agree. Both of you have caught my eye (you know what I mean - not in a sexual way!) and got me jealous of you in some way or another. I remember at Bognor, Pammy, seeing this stunning looking lady in a lovely red skirt and thinking, wow, who's that?, before I realised it was you. And much the same for Lory when I saw her dancing at Hipsters the other week.

I do agree that if you haven't got that particular 'look', you have an extra hurdle to get through at competitions to get noticed. But you both have all the required attributes and should deservedly have the confidence to match.
R.

[TheTramp]

As I said! For some strange reason, IT DOES NOT APPLY TO MEN! :angry:
Personally, I think that it does....

Trampy

[Gadget]

:yeah:

[Lory]

I do agree that if you haven't got that particular 'look', you have an extra hurdle to get through at competitions to get noticed. But you both have all the required attributes and should deservedly have the confidence to match.
R.

Please don't get me wrong on this, believe it or not, I fully admit to being one of those people who likes to see the 'whole package' win! ;)

So, I'm NOT sour grapes in the least! I just accept that I, haven't got that competition 'look'. I'm not worried about having womanly curves, some people actually like them! :eek: :clap:

As for Pammie, Big up to you girl! :worthy: I just couldn't be a**d with that 'extra hurdle'! :rolleyes:

[Pammy]

I remember at Bognor, Pammy, seeing this stunning looking lady in a lovely red skirt and thinking, wow, who's that?

I wasn't at Bognor :tears:

I was at Camber in a red skirt though :clap: :flower:

[Rachel]

I wasn't at Bognor :tears:

I was at Camber in a red skirt though :clap: :flower: Sorry, I actually realised that as soon as I'd sent it. I meant Camber - I was just too lazy to edit!
R.

[Andy McGregor]

ROb read this again! It IS Andy! :rofl: :rofl:

I might change the word dancer to Prancer though! :whistle:
Luv u Andy! :flower:

I think I prefer "mincer":wink:

I'm certain we got maximum points from the judges for dress. And that is what having the "look" does for you. There's still many more points to be had for your actual dancing - and both Lory and Pammy could easily get maximum points for 'looks' and then it's down to practice, practice and more practice.

Sometimes I've practiced for over an hour before a competition:wink:

[LilyB]

The 'look'....

She walks onto the floor with grace and confidence!

She has a dancers frame! Petite and lithe!

Her posture and deportment are elegant, she looks like a DANCER! :waycool:

She has a pleasing face!

She engages with the audience and smiles effortlessly!

She looks good in her competition costume, i.e. she wears it well! :worthy:

She's got me noticing her!!!!!

and this is before she's even danced a single step!
Believe it or not, all the above - bar one - can be learnt. Incidentally, being petite is not an advantage on the competition dance floor as it is harder for the judges to notice you :wink:

All those who learn performance arts eg. ballet, jazz and those who compete seriously in Ballroom & Latin are trained on how to present themselves to an audience/judges. Good posture, grooming, how to walk on to the floor, etc can be learnt from good teachers. Everyone can do it - it isn't difficult. All it takes is the effort to learn & practise. I would always advise anyone who wishes to do well in competitions to learn this most basic of competition skills ie. the art of looking like a winner. :waycool:

LilyB

[DavidB]

the art of looking like a winner. Or take my approach - wear black and hide...

[under par]

Believe it or not, all the above - bar one - can be learnt. Incidentally, being petite is not an advantage on the competition dance floor as it is harder for the judges to notice you :wink:

All those who learn performance arts eg. ballet, jazz and those who compete seriously in Ballroom & Latin are trained on how to present themselves to an audience/judges. Good posture, grooming, how to walk on to the floor, etc can be learnt from good teachers. Everyone can do it - it isn't difficult. All it takes is the effort to learn & practise. I would always advise anyone who wishes to do well in competitions to learn this most basic of competition skills ie. the art of looking like a winner. :waycool:

LilyB

Lily, is it possible for a 6'8" bloke to look as good as you do at entering the dance floor?

I think not!

Maybe I need some help from someone like you :wink: :whistle:

I have misssed seeing you out and about hope to see you soon.

[Andy McGregor]

Lily, is it possible for a 6'8" bloke to look as good as you do at entering the dance floor?


:yawn: This happens all the time, you've mixed up me and Lily. Lily is DavidB's wife and mostly sits around chatting, eating chocolate and being a lovely and fascinating woman. I am Lily(tm) the dancer that does the doughnut with David rather than eats them:wink:

And, yes, Under Par, there is no hope for you: as Ceroc Metro will confirm, the correct height for a man is 5' 7" - any taller than that and you're too tall to live:devil:

[Gordon J Pownall]

And, yes, Under Par, there is no hope for you: as Ceroc Metro will confirm, the correct height for a man is 5' 7" - any taller than that and you're too tall to live:devil:

Being of the CerocMetro ilk, on behalf of Adam and myself, I can indeed confirm that 5' 7" is the preferred height for dancers. :flower:

Teachers of course can be up to 5' 8" (Adam and I). Suzy (Stevenage) is shorter that 5' 8", as is Amy (Finchley). :clap:

Mick Wenger is about 5' 8" :clap: and then of course there is Paul (St Albans).

Paul is slightly taller than 5' 8" and suffers frequently from nose bleeds and altitude sickness. Put him on stage for more than 30 minutes and he blacks out and has to spend time in a decompression chamber (at great expense). :sick:

So all in all, if you are taller than 5' 8" (teacher) or 5' 7" (dancer), you might not be able to get in to CerocMetro events.

As summer draws to a close, we have borrowed the 'if you are shorter than this, you cannot go on this ride' signs from Southend Pleasure Beach. The word 'shorter' will be replaced with the word 'taller' and the world will be a much better place... :waycool:

Andy McG - thank you for bringing this to the masses attention....of course as a 'normal' person you are welcome to join us at CerocMetro and be with people you fit in with.... :hug: !!!!!

[Andy McGregor]

Paul is slightly taller than 5' 8" and suffers frequently from nose bleeds and altitude sickness. Put him on stage for more than 30 minutes and he blacks out and has to spend time in a decompression chamber (at great expense). :sick:

This Paul sounds a bit of a freak - I think it might be to do with the name:wink:

p.s. Under Par's other name is Paul :whistle:

[Pammy]

Mick Wenger is about 5' 8" :clap:

Hmmm, :confused: He's taller than me (if I remember correctly) and I'm 5ft 9. 5ft 10.5 in Danny La Rue's :D

[Pammy]

This Paul sounds a bit of a freak - I think it might be to do with the name:wink:


Ah, but that Paul is a very good dancer, and indeed teacher. He's also very funny. People should give his classes a try as he does some fab moves :clap:

[Minnie M]

Ah, but that Paul is a very good dancer, and indeed teacher. He's also very funny. People should give his classes a try as he does some fab moves :clap:

Are you talking about Paul Kingston ?

[Lory]

Paul, teacher at St Albans! :yum: :drool: :yum: :blush:

While I'm at it, I have to also mention Carol, his demo, who is the loveliest, friendliest person and a great lead too! :flower:

[Pammy]

Are you talking about Paul Kingston ?

Not sure of his last name, but if he's, as Lory puts it :yum: :yum: :yum: then it's probably him :wink:

[Sheepman]

but you would have won that regardless of who you were dancing with. Rachel, I have never heard you talk such bunkum (polite version!) before. Although my post was over 6 months ago, coincidentally I was discussing possible reasons why we won just a few hours before you replied. Our heights didn't come into the conversation!

Lory, you should definitely give the DWAS a go, feel the terror and the delight! Especially as it doesn't have to be the overwhelming (?) big competitions.

Greg

[Rachel]

Rachel, I have never heard you talk such bunkum (polite version!) before. Hey, that's twice in this thread I've been told I talk b*****ks!!! But I still stick by what I said, although I think the world of you and Lory!
Rachel

[lozzy (bandana man)]

gordy :confused: hum how odd if adam is 5.8 that makes me at least 5.9
i think not :wink:

[Gordon J Pownall]

gordy :confused: hum how odd if adam is 5.8 that makes me at least 5.9
i think not :wink:

But only in your heels though Loz......try tyeing your bandana (or banana) a littel tighter at the top....that should help keep you within the terms of your CerocMetro contract..... :cheers: :wink:

[Sparkles]

Believe it or not, all the above - bar one - can be learnt. Incidentally, being petite is not an advantage on the competition dance floor as it is harder for the judges to notice you :wink:


Lily, you're so eye-catcing in the way you are and the way you dance (all of this is said in a :worthy: way) that the judges couldn't possibly NOT notice you :waycool: ! I think petiteness (if there is such a term) is a distinct advantage and find myself wishing I were more so... In fact my height and wieght have recently been contributing factors in putting me off entering a comp, and that's after me losing 11lbs!
I agree with you that the other things mentioned can, to a large degree, be learnt. It's just a shame I can't learn to be petite too :sad: !

[Andy McGregor]

gordy :confused: hum how odd if adam is 5.8 that makes me at least 5.9
i think not :wink:

I agree, Adam is the same height as me, 5' 7" of love muscle :wink:

[Gordon J Pownall]

I agree, Adam is the same height as me, 5' 7" of love muscle :wink:

Women don't like men with too many muscles.....just one big one.... :wink:

[Northants Girly]

Women don't like men with too many muscles.....
Who says ?? :wink:

[Gus]

Who says ?? :wink:

Men with more flab than muscles .... totaly unlike Gordy of course

[Andy McGregor]

just one big one.... :wink:

That would be the wallet opening one...

[Gordon J Pownall]

Men with more flab than muscles .... totaly unlike Gordy of course


Ahhh Gus,

thank you for the compliment - much as I try to grow beer tits, :yum: they just won't develop,

Can you suggest anyone (as ODA) who may be able to give me the benefit of personal experience....? :devil: :wink:

I did try rubbing a piece of toilet paper down the middle of my chest to make them bigger....it didn't work and that was very surprising. :confused:






It certainly worked on my ex-wifes a*se - made it bloody huge - very successful..... :really: :what:

[under par]

Ahhh Gus,

thank you for the compliment - much as I try to grow beer tits, :yum: they just won't develop,

Can you suggest anyone (as ODA) who may be able to give me the benefit of personal experience....? :devil: :wink:

I did try rubbing a piece of toilet paper down the middle of my chest to make them bigger....it didn't work and that was very surprising. :confused:

certainly worked on my ex-wifes a*se - made it bloody huge - very successful..... :really: :what:

Gordy................The old ones are the best :rofl: :rofl:

[Pammy]

Gordy................The old ones are the best :rofl: :rofl:

First fat, now old eh :wink: :rofl:

[Andy McGregor]

First fat, now old eh :wink: :rofl:

So, you heard it here first, Pammy claims to be Gordy's ex-wife. The fact that Pammy's neither old, nor fat should not put you off the scent. She's acheived her present beauty by stict dieting, plastic surgery, collagen injections and liposuction.

If he didn't have the replacement beauty in the form of the lovely Sal, Gordy would be really hacked off :whistle:

[Gordon J Pownall]

So, you heard it here first, Pammy claims to be Gordy's ex-wife. The fact that Pammy's neither old, nor fat should not put you off the scent. She's acheived her present beauty by stict dieting, plastic surgery, collagen injections and liposuction.

5' 8" of pure love muscle and a babe like Pammy - believe you me it wasn't surgery - lots and lots of exercise !!!!! :really: :devil: :devil:



If he didn't have the replacement beauty in the form of the lovely Sal, Gordy would be really hacked off :whistle:

Water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink..... :tears:

It's bl**dy tough being a babe magnet (Daily Mirror, coupl'a weeks ago referring to Ceroc teachers / students falling in love etc...)

Beating 'em off with a pointy, prodding stick I am - day in, day out, week in, week out...could do with a hand really, perhaps a couple of minders / escorts / personal asisstants :whistle:

(fantasy mode on)

Ah well, I always have my fantasies....Pammy.....aaaaaahhhhhh :kiss:

[Sparkles]

So, you heard it here first, Pammy claims to be Gordy's ex-wife.

I was going to say this :yeah: , but didn't want to offend anyone :blush: - luckily you managed to pull the comment off without doing so :worthy: :whistle:

Oh, and thanks for the dance last night, Andy. It took me a while to eventually catch up with you and convince you to dance with me, but it was well worth it in the end :wink: :flower:
S. x

[Gordon J Pownall]

I was going to say this :yeah: , but didn't want to offend anyone :blush: - luckily you managed to pull the comment off without doing so :worthy: :whistle:S. x

So, in light of the above ground breaking news....(not Pammy being my ex wife the quote above),

anyone else ever been pulled off by Andy...??? :what: :what: :what: :devil:

[Pammy]

Erm, Um, Erm :really: :what: :really:

Looks like I've "done it again".

PS Can I be first in the queue for the pulling off ceremony? :wink: :whistle: :innocent: