Music or the Money

[Gus]

An interesting test of marketing strategy is shortly going to take place in our corner of the UK. There has always been a debate about what is important to dancers at freestyles and the role that pricing plays.

By misfortune both my event (Northwich) and Ceroc Nantwich will be on the same night (Sat 7th Feb). Some clashes are unavoidable if you only have 4 Saturdays in a month and 6 venues running events but as our clubs are quite close this is not such a good thing. As we both would like to pull in the dancers, we both need to offer something special. Northwich is running a Dance With a Stranger competition and is recognized as playing the best music in the region while Nantwich is cutting its entry fee from £7 to £3. So, which strategy will win? For all the debate and theorizing we should shortly see if the dancing public are price sensitive.

Place your bets!

Just to clarify, though Nantwich is my old club and my main competition, I seriously still want the club to succeed. a lot of people, good friends of mine spent a lot of effort to build the club up, and at the end of the day its active competition that will ensure that standards are constantly improved

[Martin]

Originally posted by Gus
An interesting test of marketing strategy is shortly going to take place in our corner of the UK. There has always been a debate about what is important to dancers at freestyles and the role that pricing plays.

By misfortune both my event (Northwich) and Ceroc Nantwich will be on the same night (Sat 7th Feb). Some clashes are unavoidable if you only have 4 Saturdays in a month and 6 venues running events but as our clubs are quite close this is not such a good thing. As we both would like to pull in the dancers, we both need to offer something special. Northwich is running a Dance With a Stranger competition and is recognized as playing the best music in the region while Nantwich is cutting its entry fee from £7 to £3. So, which strategy will win? For all the debate and theorizing we should shortly see if the dancing public are price sensitive.

Place your bets!

Just to clarify, though Nantwich is my old club and my main competition, I seriously still want the club to succeed. a lot of people, good friends of mine spent a lot of effort to build the club up, and at the end of the day its active competition that will ensure that standards are constantly improved

I'll go for the music every time:cheers:

[Lounge Lizard]

Well I am planning to come to Northwich as I have that Saturday clear. as expected with me music always get's my vote, cost of entry (below £10) does not influence me in choosing a venue to dance. over £10 needs to be a bit special IMO as many dancers could avoid venue if cost is to high

As I go for music option, any chance of playing some choons when I come up?
Peter

[Dan Hudson]

Personally I would go for the music.. As long as it was under £10.00 as LL says.

I have been known to walk out of venues when I have seen who is playing the music:what:

Unfortunately Gus, i think a lot of people will opt for £3.00 entry, as discussed elsewhere there are many people who don't actually "listen" to what is being played.

Therefore my money is with Nantwich.. But may the best night win!!

:cheers:

[Gus]

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
I go for music option, any chance of playing some choons when I come up?
Peter

Let me think ... 'Top DJ (:wink: )' offering to play some cool traxs at my humble club? .... you betcha:grin: Will be great to have you!

[xSalsa_Angelx]

I do not personally know any of these clubs,

But I would rather pay more for a top venue than paying penuts for a crap venue.

whether cutting the price to £3.00 makes a difference or not, its about the atmosphere in the venue that counts more, I prefer my Thursday night Ceroc class better than the Tuesday one as the atmosphere is better than the other one, although the Tuesday night class has the better Dance floor.

So even if they charged £10 or £20 to get to my Regular Thursday venue I would still pay as I love the atmosphere and music.

XsaX

[JamesGeary]

I'm ignorant of DJing. But surely if one night/DJ is widely recognised as having music that most people prefer, then it is a simple matter for the other venue in the future to just copy their playlist. Its not as if what songs they are playing can be a closely guarded secret!

Oh yes anyway, your question. I think the DWAS competition. Because people love to go to anything that is unusual, and DWAS is more unusual than cheap entrance fee.

Do you run the venue Gus, or teach there? Whats it called? Is it Ceroc Northwich?

[Paul F]

Just for the purpose of offering the other sides argument (as they dont use the forum as far as i know and cant comment) i thought i would post.

I recently went to Northwich. Great venue, good floor and some top tunes were played. Really good night.
However, what must be stressed is that Alex (who Djs at the nantwich venue) is a fantastic DJ also with a good selection of songs). The venue at nantwich is as good as it has a great floor, and cafe area for refreshments and is air conditioned.

If it were a case of one venue having terrible music and a terrible floor then, yes , music would do it for me but in this case I have to say its not as clear cut as that.

Both venues have their selling points i think. Hard to determine which is the better.

[Gus]

Originally posted by Paul F
Just for the purpose of offering the other sides argument (as they dont use the forum as far as i know and cant comment) i thought i would post.

Paul, thanks for the response. Nice to see someone taking ODA role on this one as obviously I can't:wink:



Both venues have their selling points i think. Hard to determine which is the better.

Urrmm ... totaly agree you comments re the venues themselevs ... if anything, Nantwich has a slightly bigger floor. However, when it comes to music I'm not sure that I would agree (no surprise there). Last time we went head to head the score was Nantwich 80 (about) Northwich 150(ish). My view is that rather than just cutting prices because we clash, Nantwich should just improve the quality of their offering ALL the time.

[psyc0diver]

A lot of people will also go where most of their freinds will be - could be the deciding factor especially if both venues are good

[Sheepman]

Originally posted by psyc0diver
A lot of people will also go where most of their freinds will be - Exactly, on more than one occasion I've tried to buck the trend if I thought one event would have better music than another. It's hard to row against the tide.

There's previously been debates on what makes the best dance venue, and cost has rarely come into it, but of course there are those for which it is a significant factor, unemployed, low waged, students, etc.

Greg

[Gus]

Originally posted by psyc0diver
A lot of people will also go where most of their freinds will be - could be the deciding factor especially if both venues are good

Very true. This is why, maybe, you tend to see a sudden change in some clubs rather than a general decline. At Nantwich there were about half a dozen or so social groups ..... its when they start moving that you know change is afoot. I know from experience that there are certain 'ring leaders' at Bowden who, if I persuade them to come, will tend to come with a bunch of mates.

[Tazmanian Devil]

Music gets my vote any day of the week!!
So long as the entry price is not tooo extortionate. :wink:
I think £10-£15 is quite acceptable for a great night of dancing with Fantastic music, at the end of the day a venue without a decent DJ is not worth going to!! :cheers:

[Chris]

Over a period, I would take the music as a factor, but otherwise . . .

Even if I could get my own preferred playlist (lots of slow Michael Buble and slow Julie London for blues, and lots modern latin/trance mixes for fast ceroc) . . .

Less than optimum scenarios . . .

1.My favourite blues track comes on and there's no-one who wants to explore the dramatic possibilities, or someone grabs me for a dance who only does ceroc, or

2.A fast and scintillating ceroc number comes on that I love but I'm dancing with a partner who has limited technique / energy when it comes to dancing creatively to fast music, or

3.A top mix comes on (something that seems relatively unknown at MJ/Ceroc events :( )and I'm dancing with someone who likes her music original charts - or a trance mix comes on and I'm dancing with someone who thinks 'there's no tune' in it.

Then I get a partner of my choice and I'm stuck with Choo Choo Train or something cheesy. :(

Don't get me wrong, all these scenarios have still got great dance possibilities, but maybe not ideal. So I'm not too influenced by the music unless it is consistently something I find unappealing. Any good dancer learns how to take almost any track and 'love' it for three minutes, but music you like is better, like good lager, low prices, and a chip shop that's still open at closing time.

At the end of the day I think it's best to take a pro-active attitude to enjoying the evening, whatever the music and whatever the dancers. On the scenario mentioned, I'd probably go for the one that was easier to get to or the one that my dance friends were going to (if I was in that area it would probably be to see friends firstly - dancing would just be an agreeable activity to do together). If they still looked the same it would depend on who was giving me a lift :na: or who I wanted to support or little things like that.

[Chris]

Originally posted by Gus
Just to clarify, though Nantwich is my old club and my main competition, I seriously still want the club to succeed. a lot of people, good friends of mine spent a lot of effort to build the club up, and at the end of the day its active competition that will ensure that standards are constantly improved [/B]

Gus's footnote gives him extra brownie points IMO. Similarly, one of the reasons I like to support one of Franck's events if I get the chance is his personal attitude of openness to other MJ groups. In Edinburgh, if I went Ceroccing I'd probably have a preference for the venue that is both closer and who has a teacher I'd like to support (because I think he's a decent guy and I respect the amount of work he puts in to helping beginners.) My second choice would be the night when there's most space - but mostly if I was going to dance or practice with someone in particular (eg dancer friend who doesn't go often, dancer friend leaving the country). Wednesdays Hipsters would score on this count too - loved last Wednesday!

[DavidB]

If it was my local area, I'd ask where my friends were going.

If it was somewhere completely different, I'd go for the cheaper option just about every time. I've been to enough disappointing expensive nights to feel I'd rather save some money. Anyway, the majority of the music at almost every venue is the same - one or two different tracks don't make a night special, or bad. No venue is going to play just the music I like.

Only if several people told me that one venue was going to be so much better would I fork out an extra £8 (for 2 people). And if I don't know any of the locals, how would I find out?

It might make a difference if there was a theme to one of the nights - but that is just as likely to make me choose against a venue as choose for it.

David

[Will]

Originally posted by DavidB
I'd go for the cheaper option just about every time.

David
Tell us something we don't know David! :rofl:

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Will
Tell us something we don't know David! Don't trust Will to remember his scarf

[bigdjiver]

Originally posted by Gus
By misfortune both my event (Northwich) and Ceroc Nantwich will be on the same night (Sat 7th Feb). ~

and at the end of the day its active competition that will ensure that standards are constantly improved
The ultimate form of competition is war. Any good purposes can be better achieved with cooperation than with competition.

:devil: Not misfortune - If you really are both there to serve the public it is bad planning and lack of cooperation.

If you are both there to wipe each other out it is a necessary evil.


For all the debate and theorizing we should shortly see if the dancing public are price sensitive.
This will prove nothing. The public in general are price sensitive.

To a few the difference will be the deciding factor. These will mostly be people with a low disposable income. :tears: In general it does not pay businesses to chase this market segment.

For most people the cost of an evening out is mostly the costs of incidentals, like hair-do's, baby-sitters, travel, and measured in time and effort in general. £5 or so either way on the admission is a minor factor.

My guess would be Nantwich having a few more than on the last head to head, and Northwich gaining about 30.


~ is recognized as playing the best music in the region ~ :devil: Beware of biased feedback. People may say that to your people, but there may well be others, with different tastes, similarly praising the competition.

[Yogi_Bear]

Sounds like an interesting comparison. Having been to neither venue so far I can only offer a general opinion and unless I heard a strong recommendation about the music or the standard of dancing I would go for the cheaper option. Of course if I knew people at one of the venues that would make a difference. If I lived locally I would have formed my own clear preferences and these would probably not be price-sensitive.
Having said that, a DWAS competition might well swing it for me.
By the way, just what does it take to do well at one of these competitions? Would any judges care to comment?

[Neil]

Originally posted by DavidB
If it was somewhere completely different, I'd go for the cheaper option just about every time. All things being equal, I would, perversely, go for the more expensive option every time, on the basis that a) there'd be more room to dance, and b) it must be good if they can get away with charging more for it (not always true, I know!).

Neil

[Yogi_Bear]

Well, if they were close enough I might go to both. Alternativley go to the cheaper one first. If it's good, stay, if not go on to the other one and you have only 'lost' £3......but run the risk that the second one is not worth the effort. But at least that way you would not have to ask yourself "What if...?"
:o

[LilyB]

Originally posted by psyc0diver
A lot of people will also go where most of their friends will be . . . That would be the deciding factor for me, far more than cost or music. I would always prefer to go to a venue where I know I am likely to get asked to dance. I am not that fussed about music - what's the point of great music if no one asks you to dance? Neither am I too bothered by cost, as I don't believe there is such a huge discrepancy in entry fees between venues. The other advantage of going where your friends go is the socialising aspect - a very important part of a social activity like dancing.

LilyB

[Gus]

Originally posted by bigdjiver
:devil: Not misfortune - If you really are both there to serve the public it is bad planning and lack of cooperation.


Sorry .. we are not there to serve the public ... we are businesses not charities. The clash isn't due to bad planning but non-coperation. I'm banned by Ceroc Nantwich and they aint sharing their dates with me.

I dont intend to go head to head. If I wanted to wipe out Ceroc Nantwich thats well within my capability. I set Nantwich up, know most of the crew and best dancers, all the venue management and I've got the backing of the biggest Jive organisation in the region ... if I wanted to take Nantwich out what could they do? If the shoe was on the other foot I know exactly what would happen! The difference is that my team and I dont operate that way, even when things have been made personal.

The point is ... as I tried to say earlier, I've made every effort to avoid direct competition ... but there are only so many dates available. As long as the competition doesnt get out of hand it is for the greater good.

[bigdjiver]

Originally posted by Gus
Sorry .. we are not there to serve the public ... we are businesses not charities. The clash isn't due to bad planning but non-coperation. I'm banned by Ceroc Nantwich and they aint sharing their dates with me.

I dont intend to go head to head. If I wanted to wipe out Ceroc Nantwich thats well within my capability. I set Nantwich up, know most of the crew and best dancers, all the venue management and I've got the backing of the biggest Jive organisation in the region ... if I wanted to take Nantwich out what could they do? If the shoe was on the other foot I know exactly what would happen! The difference is that my team and I dont operate that way, even when things have been made personal.

The point is ... as I tried to say earlier, I've made every effort to avoid direct competition ... but there are only so many dates available. As long as the competition doesnt get out of hand it is for the greater good.

I believe that businesses make money by serving the public, and if you ran your events on different nights you would both make more money and serve the public better.

I think you might find it rather more difficult to wipe out a competitor legally than you think, just because MJ is a very social activity, and people are very venue loyal. I will discount completely the fact that your competitor may be backed by the biggest MJ organisation in the world.

There are more than enough potential customers out there to keep all MJ organisations busy and profitable for the next ten years, at least.

If it is only Ceroc Nantwich that will not cooperate then I suspect that it will be mostly their loss, short term and financially. I will be very interested in hearing the comparative numbers this time.

If, as has been stated, they only had 80 last time, then, once they had discovered the clash and the potential added attraction of a DWAS, they had little option but to reduce the prices as an added incentive to try and ensure that their event had enough numbers to ensure a good evening. In the short term it is bad business, they will lose money by doing it. They are trying to provide a good evening for their customers, and I believe in the long term that is good business.

If the shoe was on the other foot, you probably would not dance so well :grin:

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by LilyB
I would always prefer to go to a venue where I know I am likely to get asked to dance.
Ah, a jive venue then... :na:

Chris

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Chris
Less than optimum scenarios . . .

Then I get a partner of my choice and I'm stuck with Choo Choo Train or something cheesy. :(

Well you're one up on me. I'm forever getting Choo Choo Train and can't find anyone to dance with to it :sad:

Chris

[TheTramp]

I'll go to the cheaper venue. Because I'm a poor student. And at least I'll have DavidB to dance with there :D

Steve

[jivecat]

Originally posted by Tazmanian Devil
Music gets my vote any day of the week!!
So long as the entry price is not tooo extortionate. :wink:
I think £10-£15 is quite acceptable for a great night of dancing with Fantastic music, at the end of the day a venue without a decent DJ is not worth going to!! :cheers:



Please don't give anybody any ideas!! I don 't earn all that much but I don't mind paying £6 or £7 a night for Ceroc as I usually have a thoroughly good time. However, if the price were to creep nearer to £10 I would find it harder to justify spending that twice a week. I'm talking about regular nights and freestyles, not those with food or extra entertainments of any sort.

I think having decent music at a venue is extremely important but I don't see why the customer should pay extra to get it, it should come as standard.

[Lory]

Originally posted by Neil
All things being equal, I would, perversely, go for the more expensive option every time, on the basis that a) there'd be more room to dance, and b) it must be good if they can get away with charging more for it (not always true, I know!).

Neil

I'm as weird as you Neil! :blush:

But the biggest thing that would sway me, would be where my friends are going!:hug:

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Lory
But the biggest thing that would sway me, would be where my friends are going!:hug: Even though you then avoid them all weekend anyhow??

(Or was that just me? :D)

Steve

[Lory]

Originally posted by TheTramp
Even though you then avoid them all weekend anyhow??

(Or was that just me? :D)

Steve OI! you must have some perverse liking for stirring up the 'Wrath of Lory'! :devil:

Or, your only saying that cos your up in scotland now! WIMP! :rofl:

[spindr]

Other options being equal ... sometimes it just comes down to which venue's closest ... or whether you just fancy a change.

Of course, if there's a vast undersupply of followers at the event, I'd probably choose the other option the next time :)

SpinDr.

[Rachel]

Originally posted by ChrisA
Well you're one up on me. I'm forever getting Choo Choo Train and can't find anyone to dance with to it :sad:

Chris Me, Chris!!! I like dancing to that. Can't for the life of me explain why, but I do!
Rachel

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Rachel
Me, Chris!!! I like dancing to that. Can't for the life of me explain why, but I do!
Rachel

:hug:

Cos you have great taste, that's why :waycool: :nice:

Chris

[Rachel]

Originally posted by ChrisA
:hug:

Cos you have great taste, that's why :waycool: :nice:

Chris I know!!
R xx

[Gus]

Originally posted by bigdjiver
I believe that businesses make money by serving the public, and if you ran your events on different nights you would both make more money and serve the public better.

Yeah ... you're right ... servicing the customer is the bet way to achieve long term profitability ... but I would say that a means to an end rather than an end target .... though, its a pretty important eans to an end. In reality, I run gorgeous Gus Dance for fun ... not to retire on. If I added up how much time I spend on it as opposed to my day job I'd probably scare myself!




I think you might find it rather more difficult to wipe out a competitor legally than you think, just because MJ is a very social activity, and people are very venue loyal. I will discount completely the fact that your competitor may be backed by the biggest MJ organisation in the world.


Previous comments were a bit out of line .... I wouldn't DREAM of deliberately going out to grind a competitior into the dust ... but please belive me ... with more aggressive marketing it would be possible. When you talk about loyalty ... many of the Ceroc Nantwich dancers still are loyal to me and like to support my events. However, its understood that they dont want to get caught up in the politics and they expect the Dance Organisers to act as professionals not squabbling children.

Ceroc may be the biggest in the UK ... but that counts for nothing in Cheshire. Here Ceroc is small fry and I dont know what London could do about it.



There are more than enough potential customers out there to keep all MJ organisations busy and profitable for the next ten years, at least.

Totally agree. A has been mentioned on another thread ... if all the MJ organisation continue to pull in the same direction we WILL expand the pool of dancers ... which can only be a GOOD thing.




If the shoe was on the other foot, you probably would not dance so well :grin:

After last nights performance .... I think 'shoe on other foot' would be a great excuse:tears:

[Tiggerbabe]

Originally posted by Rachel
Me, Chris!!! I like dancing to that. Can't for the life of me explain why, but I do!
Rachel
And if Rachel's taken - I'll do it!!!!!:wink:

[Alfie]

Hi All,
We have been going to Nantwich for nearly four and a half years and enjoyed all the events there immensley and we have also tried to support Gus in his ventures at Middlewich and Northwich.
Both Venues are superb, great dancefloor, reasonable bar, good crew, nice atmosphere.
Northwich will probably be more succesful than Nantwich as it will attract all the Blitz travelling faithful and alot of Gus's loyal freinds. DWAS will also be a bit of a pull for the more competative punter. I seem to remember it was warmly recieved last time (I even came third).
Nantwich will have their own regulars and non travellers and certain Ceroc die hards who would be found dancing to a mobile phone ring tone if it was cheap or free.
Expect there will be enough peoples for both gigs but personally we shall be at Northwich with the shoes.
Gus is a really nice bloke and I dont think he would double up
on pupose. He is providing a valuable service to the dancing community by running the sharpest monthly event west of the M6.

[Sheepman]

Originally posted by Alfie
who would be found dancing to a mobile phone ring tone What :what: doesn't everyone do that? Or pick up the rythmn of builders bashing away :sorry or such like?

Greg

[Tazmanian Devil]

Originally posted by jivecat
Please don't give anybody any ideas!! I don 't earn all that much but I don't mind paying £6 or £7 a night for Ceroc as I usually have a thoroughly good time. However, if the price were to creep nearer to £10 I would find it harder to justify spending that twice a week. I'm talking about regular nights and freestyles, not those with food or extra entertainments of any sort.

I think having decent music at a venue is extremely important but I don't see why the customer should pay extra to get it, it should come as standard.


Hi Jivecat , I think I should have elaborated a bit more, £6 I think is a decent amount for an average ceroc night and I agree that just because there is a great DJ the price shouldn't be higher. My £10-£15 remark was aimed more at special party nights i.e. Christmas, new year or a Charity ball. If you are interested Charlton are having their first Saturday night at the conservative club this week it's £8 Addmission and we have the fabulas Emma DJing! :wink: :kiss: :hug:

www.cerocgreenwich.co.uk

[Shuffle]

Here are a few facts which Mr Craig Jeffries (aka Gus) omits from his posts.

Alex Mitchell will be DJing on 7th Feb, the date of the clash, and for almost all of Ceroc Nantwich freestyles. Alex is a highly respected and independant DJ. He DJs for Blitz in Bowdon on Tuesday nights, and Ceroc Manchester on Wednesday nights. Both of these are highly successful clubs because of his music. Alex learnt his DJ skills at Nantwich whilst Craig was at Nantwich. he has also DJ at other national events.

Criag also happens to teach for Blitz in Bowdon on Tuesday nights.

So effectively Craig is slagging off a fellow worker on a public forum.

Dates for Ceroc Nantwich freestyles are on www.cerocnantwich.co.uk for all to see a YEAR IN ADVANCE.

If anyone doubts Alex's DJ skills, then email me at cerocnantwich@fsmail.net and I will ensure they get free entry, on 7th Feb. If they don't like the music, then they have lost nothing and are free to drive up to Northwich.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Shuffle
he has also DJ at other national events.


doesnt mean he's any good though OR that he gets to play what he wants ! The opinion among the dancers down there may well be that the music is better in one place, doesnt make it a personal 'slagging' match though - no one can be bothered with that sort of thing.

Its all in the deep south anyway, shucks :).

[Lounge Lizard]

Originally posted by Sheepman
Or pick up the rythmn of builders bashing away
Greg Are you refering to my DJ'ing skills?

[Gus]

Originally posted by Shuffle
Here are a few facts which Mr Craig Jeffries (aka Gus) omits from his posts.


Hiya Lai,

nice to see your interpersonal skills and grasp of the truth haven't changed much



Alex Mitchell will be DJing on 7th Feb, .....Alex learnt his DJ skills at Nantwich whilst Craig was at Nantwich.......Criag also happens to teach for Blitz in Bowdon on Tuesday nights.

So effectively Craig is slagging off a fellow worker on a public forum.


Few minor points:

Yup ... Alex is a respected DJ and is a collegue of mine at Blitz

Yup .... He was at Nantwich when I was there ... probably due to the fact that I TRAINED HIM (along with Punkfish)

Slagged off .... WHERE?? I simply said we had better music .... my opinion to which I'm entitled to ... especially given the fact that LL will be at Northwich in Feb.

Please dont try to make this personal .... I think my music is better, Alex probably thinks his music is better. We're both right ... some will prefer his music and some mine ..... BUT please dont try to stir things up! If I've offended Alex I'll apologise to him personally.:reallymad



Dates for Ceroc Nantwich freestyles are on www.cerocnantwich.co.uk for all to see a YEAR IN ADVANCE.


Urrrr ... as you well know these dates were published well after Northwich was booked (and before Nantwich was??)



If anyone doubts Alex's DJ skills, then email me at cerocnantwich@fsmail.net and I will ensure they get free entry, on 7th Feb. If they don't like the music, then they have lost nothing and are free to drive up to Northwich.

Good offer sir .... and many dancers take you up on this offer ..... both parts of it.:devil: :devil:

I'm sorry for this posting. the intention of this thread was to raise an interesting marketing issue ... not to slag off a competitor. However, although its great to have a differing view, I think fact has a role to play:waycool:

[Gus]

Originally posted by Paul F
I recently went to Northwich. Great venue, good floor and some top tunes were played. Really good night.
However, what must be stressed is that Alex (who Djs at the nantwich venue) is a fantastic DJ also with a good selection of songs).

Well ... maybe competition does work. It appears (if rumour is true) that Alex has now been tempted away from DJing for Blitz on a Tuesday to DJ for Ceroc Nantwich! So ... the music at Nantwich will be immeasurably improved. And... how will Blitz have to respond to maintain the edge?

With clubs operating within striking distance the pressure will be on competing clubs to raise their game or suffer dropping numbers. I'm not sure (personal view only) about how people will view 'poaching' a DJ ... but maybe its like football teams ... you have to be willing to pay more than the opposition to get the better players. So .. will a bidding war break out in other areas of competition tempt away 'star' DJ/teachers/crew? .... or does anyone know of any cases where this has already happened?

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Shuffle
Alex Mitchell will be DJing on 7th Feb, the date of the clash, and for almost all of Ceroc Nantwich freestyles. Alex is a highly respected and independant DJ. He DJs for Blitz in Bowdon on Tuesday nights, and Ceroc Manchester on Wednesday nights. Both of these are highly successful clubs because of his music. Alex learnt his DJ skills at Nantwich whilst Craig was at Nantwich. he has also DJ at other national events.

Criag also happens to teach for Blitz in Bowdon on Tuesday nights.

So effectively Craig is slagging off a fellow worker on a public forum.

Come on 'Shuffle', tell us on this 'public forum' exactly where Gus is 'slagging off' Alex Mitchell?:confused:

I've read through Gus's posts and can't find anything but a balanced view and a reasonable discussion. On the other hand, Shuffle has been highly confrontational and has made other people's words mean something that may or may not have been the intention of the author.

I think the tone of Mr Shuffle on this 'public forum' has told us much about the person behind 'Shuffle' - come back soon and tell us more Shuffle:flower:

[Danger Mouse]

Originally posted by Gus

Place your bets!



Me thinks this a little unfair, I doubt if it's anything to do with who plays the best music or who's the cheapest.

Nantwich is only a small town, I'm guessing it pulls most of it's Cerocers from all over the place, South, West, East & but a large portion must come from the North. Which is why it's been so successful in the past.

Northwich is just south of Manchester, Liverpool and the huge conurbation of the North East.

It’s obvious to me that if both have freestyles on the same night anyone from the North East is more likely to go to Northwich than Nantwich. Whereas if Northwich didn’t have a freestyle on the same night they may well venture further south to Nantwich.

I’ll be going to Nantwich, regardless of cost, mainly because it’s nearer to me than Northwich, but also because it has in my opinion a fantastic dance floor and plays my type of music.

Gus, I’d be interested in why you felt the need to start this thread? & who was first to publicise a freestyle on that night? Northwich or Nantwich?

[Paul F]

Originally posted by Danger Mouse
Me thinks this a little unfair, I doubt if it's anything to do with who plays the best music or who's the cheapest.
....................
SNIP!
................
rt this thread? & who was first to publicise a freestyle on that night? Northwich or Nantwich?

Just want to wish everyone, wherever they are going a great, night. Im off to Nantwich so DM, would be great to say hello.

I will be the one wearing possibly the most unfashionable clothes ever :grin: Usually easy to spot :blush:

[Gus]

Originally posted by Danger Mouse
Me thinks this a little unfair, I doubt if it's anything to do with who plays the best music or who's the cheapest.
DM, welcome to the debate:smile: Some good pints raised, thought I'd have a bash at answering some (maybe a bit biased but what the heck)

Hoped debate wasn't a question of being fair or unfair ... it was a questions as to whether people thought that a focus on door pricing would give a club a competitive advantage

Nantwich is only a small town, I'm guessing it pulls most of it's Cerocers from all over the place, South, West, East & but a large portion must come from the North. Which is why it's been so successful in the past. Northwich is just south of Manchester, Liverpool and the huge conurbation of the North East.
Sorry ... but not quite accurate. Nantwich and Northwich are both similar in size, within 10 miles of each other ... thats WHY it makes this such an interesting test of market forces. As Paul F has pointed out ... the venues themselves are VERY similar and it would make little difference travelling time where you come from.

It’s obvious to me that if both have freestyles on the same night anyone from the North East is more likely to go to Northwich than Nantwich. Whereas if Northwich didn’t have a freestyle on the same night they may well venture further south to Nantwich.
Sorry ... not true as pointed out above. Many of my regulars are from Crewe/Nantwich. Paul F is from Manchester but will be going to Nantwich. If there is a difference its that Northwich is supported by Blitz, with its membership covering the NWest and NEast. Nantwich is supported by Ceroc and so its coverage is more based in the West and East Midlands.

I’ll be going to Nantwich, regardless of cost, mainly because it’s nearer to me than Northwich, but also because it has in my opinion a fantastic dance floor and plays my type of music.
No doubting that logic. My personal view is that the door entry (within reason) is not a determining factor. I think, as you do, people will go to the venues that play the music they want to hear. for that reason I get very few people who like RnR or Country Jive ... but we attract the more advanced dancers who like a balance of music across Swing, Soul, Pop, Motown and of course Club!

Gus, I’d be interested in why you felt the need to start this thread? & who was first to publicise a freestyle on that night? Northwich or Nantwich? As to who publicise first ... who knows. We both book our dates over 12 months in advance. As to need to start this thread ... well I'm a franchisee and a business graduate who is still (forlornly) trying to apply business logic to MJ (yup ... fool I know). This Saturday gives a unique opportunity to see two clubs in the same catchment area, with near identical venues, with similar backing from their respective dance organisations, both well known in the region ... going head to head. The only major differences are the: music policies, entry fees and entertainment proposition. Aren’t you even the slightest bit curious as to what happens?:wink:

PS . . DM where do you dance in the Midlands ... maybe catch up in person?

[Danger Mouse]

Originally posted by Gus

Hoped debate wasn't a question of being fair or unfair

First of all thanks for replying...

The reference to being “unfair” was mainly aimed at your "place your bets!" comment. You see I have a feeling you know you’re going to win the numbers game and this post was a sort of pre-emptive gloat (is there such a thing?).


Nantwich and Northwich are both similar in size, within 10 miles of each other
I’ve just run a Autoroute & town centre to town centre is coming out at 16.9 miles.

16.9 miles closer to the North East conurbation where you must draw a lot of your customers from as you indicate below.

Sorry for being pedantic btw.

Sorry ... not true as pointed out above. Many of my regulars are from Crewe/Nantwich. Paul F is from Manchester but will be going to Nantwich. If there is a difference its that Northwich is supported by Blitz, with its membership covering the NWest and NEast. Nantwich is supported by Ceroc and so its coverage is more based in the West and East Midlands.
accepted, but I still think if Northwich wasn't on the same night some MJ dancers from the NE may well have venture that extra distance south.

My personal view is that the door entry (within reason) is not a determining factor. I think, as you do, people will go to the venues that play the music they want to hear.
I also very much doubt if the door fee will make very much difference to Nantwich’s numbers tonight. My personal preference in music is Club/Pop, but I’ve never felt disappointed by the type of music Nantwich play.

I'm a franchisee and a business graduate who is still (forlornly) trying to apply business logic to
Thought so, maybe you should try running a football club, how about Leeds United they are in desperate need of someone who’s good at running a business in another cut throat world.

Aren’t you even the slightest bit curious as to what happens?
Nope not this time, I’m still going to Nantwich tonight. However, next time you have a freestyle that doesn’t clash with Nantwich and I’m free that evening then maybe.

PS . . DM where do you dance in the Midlands ... maybe catch up in person?
Ah!! Now that would be telling, but you’re very likely to find me in one or two of the Birmingham Venues.
:grin: :grin:

[Danger Mouse]

Update: I've just had a phone call from a friend who's travelling up the M6 this evening with a carload. On Wednesday they were unsure which of the two venues to go to, but have plumbed for Nantwich because of the £3 door fee offer. :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Danger Mouse]

I’ve just realised in my post 2 up that I don't know my 'West' from my 'East'. :blush:

I of course meant North West conurbation & not North East.

Still it’s hardly surprising I often get my left & rights muddled up when dancing.

:wink: :wink:

[Paul F]

Well thats the night over.

First and foremost, I hope everyone everywhere, wherever you went out tonight made it home safely.

The weather outside tonight is horrible, absolutely horrible.


On a plus note Nantwich tonight was fantastic. I had some dances that were to die for :drool:

It was well busy (not going to estimate a number) and the music was first class (plenty of blues to keep me happy :blush: )
Loads of people who i had never seen before were there including many lindy dancers!! Great to watch.

BUT, the biggest thankyou must go to whoever organised the lighting, be it Alex or whoever.
The venue is a great venue at the best of times but tonight it looked awesome. I found myself looking at the lighting while I was dancing :blush: Very colourful and gave the night a great atmosphere. A lot of work had obviously gone in.

:cheers:


I must say, I sincerely hope Northwich was busy too as I would love both nights to have been a success.
If it was it would be great for MJ

[Danger Mouse]

ditto to Paul F

Great night at Nantwich, never short of dances, loads of dancers there, yet still plenty of room, never took a bump all night and all for £3.

I echo what Paul F said, hope Northwich was a success too surley it's good for both venues to have a heathy MJ scene in the area.

Gus, promise I'll come to Northwich one day in the future. :cheers:

[Gus]

Originally posted by Paul F
The weather outside tonight is horrible, absolutely horrible.

No kidding! Must have put a lot of people off. Drive back was verging on the dangerous. Its a mark of the dance crowds enthusiasm that so many ventured out.



I must say, I sincerely hope Northwich was busy too as I would love both nights to have been a success.
If it was it would be great for MJ

Yup ... sounds like both clubs did well. We had 'one of those nights' during set-up .... venue let us down with the sound system :tears: ... but thanks to expert assistance from Lounge Lizard all was up and running in time for the punters.

Like Nantwich, superb night of dancing ... lots of the Blackpool contenders plus a whole horde of dancers I've not met before :grin: Final numbers around 190 .... not bad for a night with such awful weather, a competing dance event AND 30 or so dancers away on a weekender. Just goes to show how strong MJ is in the NWest:clap:

PS: LL is a DJ GOD:waycool: Superb set, great dancing ... looking to tempt him back for the 'Scots on Tour' Weekend:grin: :grin:

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Gus

... but thanks to expert assistance from Lounge Lizard all was up and running in time for the punters.

-snip-

PS: LL is a DJ GOD:waycool: Superb set, great dancing ... looking to tempt him back for the 'Scots on Tour' Weekend:grin: :grin:

Nothing could stand between LL and a nights dancing. He's a great builder too. If the venue had burnt down he'd have hastily constructed a new one in a nearby field:waycool:

He's a sort of SuperLizard - leaps tall speakers with a single bound...

[Gus]

Well ... as a real live experiment as to whether the Music or the Money carries the day ...the result may be inconclusive (unless Lai wants to publish his figures :devil: ). Maybe the title is a bit misleading. DJ Alex is a quantum step up from Nantwich’s previous DJs and though I would still contend that Northwich will consistently deliver a better musical offering, the focus of competitive action cannot be limited to music differentiation.

The plain fact is that there are two similar clubs in the same area that both want to pull in as many punters as possible. Nantwich has gone for the reduced ticket price and free tickets to bring in dancers from further afield, Northwich has looked to bringing in 'Top DJ's (:wink: ) and themed nights.

I have my own views on competing solely on price, but at the end of the day it matters not a jot what me and Lai think .. its whether dancers will continue to come to either venue.

Personally, I DO enjoy the competition ... it give s a real edge to thinking of innovative ways to improve the night to make Northwich the premier night on the area ... and that a matter of professional pride not a personal vendetta. In some ways I think that Franck has a harder job .... with little direct competition, he still has to motivate himself to give the punters what they really want rather than just sitting back on his laurels. Knowing Franck ... and knowing the MAd Crew ... I don’t think there is any chance of that:grin:

[Lounge Lizard]

Hi, just a big thank you to Gus and the Northwich crowd, I had a great time at a great venue with some grear dancers.
Look forward to my next visit north.

Sorting out sound system....
When I was younger (no comments please) I wanted to be a roadie with touring bands, but did not think anyone would be interested....sometimes think I may have missed my vocation. Sa la vie
LL

[Alfie]

Congratulations to Gus after another stunning event in Northwich. It was very well attended (he wasn't giving tickets away for free either) the music was spot on, the dancing was fab and according to a certain lady who accompanied us to the venue Mr Lizard is a dancing God.
Great night and all the ladies I asked said yes:wink: :wink:
and thanks to all the people who invested in shoes.

[bigdjiver]

Anybody knows, or prepared to estimate, Nantwich attendance?

[Gus]

Had forgotten all about this post ... until local issues brought it back to mind again. BUT ... realised that no-one had actualy contributed what their experiences had been. With all the clubs springing up around the country, there MUST have been some nights when competing clubs both had an event on. What happened, what did the organisers do to make sure that their night was the best night?

[bigdjiver]

Had forgotten all about this post ... until local issues brought it back to mind again. BUT ... realised that no-one had actualy contributed what their experiences had been. With all the clubs springing up around the country, there MUST have been some nights when competing clubs both had an event on. What happened, what did the organisers do to make sure that their night was the best night? as I recall I questioned your motives about raising this topic. I thought that you might be using a bogus discussion about pricing policy to promote your own event.

I predicted that both venues would have larger crowds. I find it very difficult to believe that you never bothered to find out how the opposition performed. So, how come no answer, even at this late stage, to my question raised in Feb? :confused: :devil:

[philsmove]

Two dances clashed last year in BRISTOL

The one with best Music and Venue won hands down and yes it was more expensive

It will be interesting this Christmas, there are two big Balls on the same night

One normally cost twice as much as the other

The more expensive one includes food and a live band, but you will to wait till December for the results

The good news all Bristol organisers now work very hard to avoid local clashes

[Gus]

as I recall I questioned your motives about raising this topic. I thought that you might be using a bogus discussion about pricing policy to promote your own event.:

Sorry but no ... in the 'old' days I would have just started a thread. Currently we have enough local marketing outlets, no offence to the Forum but given the few forumites in the NWest it wouldnt make much impact on local events ... at the moment.





I predicted that both venues would have larger crowds. I find it very difficult to believe that you never bothered to find out how the opposition performed. So, how come no answer, even at this late stage, to my question raised in Feb? :confused: :devil:

To be honest I thought the thread was likely to degenerate into a Northwich v Nantwich debate (OK... Iwas partly to blame for that :blush: ) and I thought that it would have been unfair for me to make a statement on Lai's behalf. However, as Lai hasn't answered your question re numbers, well from annecdotal feedback I heard that Nantwich had about 150 or so dancers that night. Interestingly, at a recent night when we didnt clash I heard that the numbers were considerably lower. This does raise the question as to whether what both clubs need to do is to maintain better marketing activitiy to ensure better attendances?

To be honest I'm not really concerned about competing events now. Our team just have to focus on what we do, keep on constanntly doing it better and not worry about anyone else. We are currently facing the problem of being too popular ( :sick: ) and are having to go ticket only form September ... not something I want to do but as we have a self-imposed limit of 240, I need to ensure that we dont either have a crowded dance floor or have to turn people away (think we covered this issue on a previous thread).

Anyway ... its nice to have the biggest club freestyle event in the North :waycool: Now got to see if we can keep it like that.

[bigdjiver]

... To be honest I'm not really concerned about competing events now. Our team just have to focus on what we do, keep on constanntly doing it better and not worry about anyone else. . . ..

:clap: :yeah: :cheers:

Be the best, lead the rest.