2004 Winners at Blackpool are ....... [Archive]

Bill

2nd-February-2004, 12:31 AM

With less than 5 weeks to go thought it appropriate to get discussion going again on Blackpool :D

At the Edinburgh party last night I got a glimpse of two couples I feel will do very very well at the comp. Hazel adn John looked even better than they did when they won the seniors comp last year and young Mel and James looked ( to use a friend's comment ) awesome......... They won the Scottish Intermediate title and I haven't really seen them dance since but Mel has always been a terrific dancer but James's rate of progress is just staggering. I think he'd be very embarrassed to know someone was praising him but last year I said he was fast becoming one of the best jive dancers in Scotland and now I believe he is the best and being old enough to be his dad I should hate him with a passion .................. :angry: ......but he is such a genuinely lovely guy I can only step back, admire and wish him well.

sorry James........... and Mel.......... no pressure !!! :whistle: :D

5 weeks to go eh......... :tears: :sick:

Tiggerbabe

2nd-February-2004, 01:18 AM

Originally posted by Bill
to use a friend's comment ) awesome.........
Aw! Bless, poor Niall in the depths of Russia when we're all heading to Blackpool :hug: Who are we gonna get to persuade big Andy to let us hang our Saltires up this year? :tears: :tears:

Bill

2nd-February-2004, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by Sheena
Aw! Bless, poor Niall in the depths of Russia when we're all heading to Blackpool :hug: Who are we gonna get to persuade big Andy to let us hang our Saltires up this year? :tears: :tears:

at least it feels like summer to him when he gets back for the odd weekend :D :na: but he'll really miss Blackpool - and we can't even vidoe it for him :sick:

jivecat

2nd-February-2004, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by Rachel
Actually, just one other comment on this - In this day and age, isn't 50 a bit young for a Seniors' Category? I mean, really, 50 year-olds nowadays are barely distinguishable from the
30-somethings.

Absolutely, hear hear, couldn't agree more.

JC (Aged 49 & three quarters)

Bill

2nd-February-2004, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by jivecat
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rachel
[B]Actually, just one other comment on this - In this day and age, isn't 50 a bit young for a Seniors' Category? I mean, really, 50 year-olds nowadays are barely distinguishable from the
30-somethings.
[QUOTE]

Absolutely, hear hear, couldn't agree more.

JC (Aged 49 & three quarters)

:rofl: :whistle: .............so you'll not bother entering next year then :wink:

jivecat

2nd-February-2004, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by Bill
:rofl: :whistle: .............so you'll not bother entering next year then :wink:

Don't think I'd be entering under any circumstances!

Heather

2nd-February-2004, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by Sheena
Aw! Bless, poor Niall in the depths of Russia when we're all heading to Blackpool :hug: Who are we gonna get to persuade big Andy to let us hang our Saltires up this year? :tears: :tears:
I was talking to Niall's fiancee, Marion on Saturday, Niall will be home this weekend and will be back in Scotland until April, so I guess he WILL becoming to Blackpool after all !:clap: :clap:

:hug:
Heather,
XX

Tiggerbabe

2nd-February-2004, 10:24 PM

Awesome! :wink: :kiss:

Jive Brummie

3rd-February-2004, 12:28 AM

Originally posted by Bill
With less than 5 weeks to go thought it appropriate to get discussion going again on Blackpool :D

At the Edinburgh party last night I got a glimpse of two couples I feel will do very very well at the comp. Hazel adn John looked even better than they did when they won the seniors comp last year and young Mel and James looked ( to use a friend's comment ) awesome......... They won the Scottish Intermediate title and I haven't really seen them dance since but Mel has always been a terrific dancer but James's rate of progress is just staggering. I think he'd be very embarrassed to know someone was praising him but last year I said he was fast becoming one of the best jive dancers in Scotland and now I believe he is the best and being old enough to be his dad I should hate him with a passion .................. :angry: ......but he is such a genuinely lovely guy I can only step back, admire and wish him well.

sorry James........... and Mel.......... no pressure !!! :whistle: :D

5 weeks to go eh......... :tears: :sick:

Thanks Bill from myself and Melanie for the things you've said. :blush: Anyone would think money had changed hands:wink: :wink:.

I think my dancing ability has more to do with having a brilliant partner than anything else. Without FC and her brutal honesty I'd be crap. However, we're both firm believers in hard work and practise and can only give Blackpool our best shot. There are many fantastic dancers in Scotland let alone the rest of the country..... So best of luck to everyone taking part:cheers:

ChrisA

3rd-February-2004, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by Jive Brummie
So best of luck to everyone taking part:cheers:
Yeah.... break a leg, mate :waycool: :wink:

Graham W

3rd-February-2004, 02:27 PM

Medal winners? Have the bookies stopped taking bets on Will & Kate getting a medal in advnaced freestyle yet? or Andy & kim (?)winning the aerials? :-) Love Simon R's partner too.. - a dark horse for sure - well chosen. G

Jayne

3rd-February-2004, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Graham W
Medal winners? Have the bookies stopped taking bets on Will & Kate getting a medal in advnaced freestyle yet?
So are Will & Kate doing advanced then? They're obviously good enough but I thought they were doing intermediate???

J :confused:

DavidB

3rd-February-2004, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by Graham W
or Andy & kim (?)winning the aerials? Assuming that all the couples that have indicated they are taking part actually compete, the aerials division is going to be a lot closer this year. It is quite possible that some couples would tie if marked on aerials alone, and it might be the dancing in between that decides the result.

Makes the judges work for their money anyway. :wink:

David

TheTramp

3rd-February-2004, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by DavidB
Assuming that all the couples that have indicated they are taking part actually competeNames. We want names :D

Steve

ChrisA

3rd-February-2004, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by Jayne
I thought [Will and Kate] were doing intermediate???

I sure hope you're wrong :tears:

I mean, Ok, I'll freely admit to a bit of an "oh no" feeling at the prospect of W & K in Intermediates, but apart from that, say they won it...

... wouldn't there be just a hint of "so what" given how good they are???

Chris

Will

3rd-February-2004, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by ChrisA
I sure hope you're wrong :tears:

I mean, Ok, I'll freely admit to a bit of an "oh no" feeling at the prospect of W & K in Intermediates, but apart from that, say they won it...

... wouldn't there be just a hint of "so what" given how good they are???

Chris

Just to clarify matters, we had the option of entering the Intermediate to suit me, or entering the Seniors to suit Kate. So in the end we decided to compromise and do the Advanced.

ChrisA

3rd-February-2004, 06:59 PM

DavidB

3rd-February-2004, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by Will
we had the option of entering the Intermediate to suit me I know you have been telling everyone how much better you are, but INTERMEDIATE?? That is a huge improvement!

Simon r

3rd-February-2004, 07:54 PM

decided to pull out of blackpool as have not done enough to with new partner maybe next year thanks for the compliments ,but just not good enough ...
maybe see you all later on in the year ...:rolleyes:

Bill

3rd-February-2004, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by Will
Just to clarify matters, we had the option of entering the Intermediate to suit me, or entering the Seniors to suit Kate. So in the end we decided to compromise and do the Advanced.

Oh good..............:rolleyes: :sick: .... can Fran and I take your place in the Intermediate then...... getting close to Seniors category but Fran too young.. :blush:

Maybe if we dance quietly in a small corner no-one will notice us and we can get away without humiliation :whistle:

Bill

3rd-February-2004, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by DavidB
It is quite possible that some couples would tie if marked on aerials alone, and it might be the dancing in between that decides the result.

David

Always wondered how they judged aerials because I've seena few competitions and people placed who clearly do some lovely moves but with absolutely no dancing at all and little interpretation so that by the end I was bored. And at times it's just a larger man throwing a small woman around....... :rolleyes: :na:

Unfortunately not many couples have the elegance and style of David and Lily and rarely the dancing ability to go along with the moves.

But looking forward to the comp.

Mary

4th-February-2004, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
See you there:clap:

Take it easy. I'd hate to beat you at Blackpool because you're injured - I want to beat you fair and square:devil:

Hmmm. I'll consider myself challenged then shall I? OK, bring it on.:yum:

M

Andy McGregor

4th-February-2004, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by Mary
Hmmm. I'll consider myself challenged then shall I? OK, bring it on.:yum:

M

I'm expecting Kate and I to come about 25th - which is higher than I'm expecting you to come with Sheepster as your partner/handicap:wink: :devil: :flower:

Jive Brummie

4th-February-2004, 07:47 PM

Trampy and Sheena must be up there with the contenders for the aerials comp. They're looking impressive.

It's like watching beauty and the beast!!!!!!!!!!!!!

James........:wink:

TheTramp

4th-February-2004, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by Jive Brummie
Trampy and Sheena must be up there with the contenders for the aerials comp. They're looking impressive.

It's like watching beauty and the beast!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm going to tell Sheena that you called her a beast!!! :angry:

Steve

Jive Brummie

4th-February-2004, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
I'm going to tell Sheena that you called her a beast!!! :angry:

Steve

I must be a mind reader... I knew you were going to say something like that......

spindr

5th-February-2004, 01:29 AM

FYI: Kerrin, Luci and Jacqui from GingerJive will be competing again in the Double Trouble category.

SpinDr.

Andy McGregor

5th-February-2004, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by Jive Brummie
It's like watching beauty and the beast!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Has anyone else noticed that the 'beast' stays the same but the 'beauty' is always different?

I think he cooks and eats them after each competition:wink:

Mary

5th-February-2004, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I'm expecting Kate and I to come about 25th - which is higher than I'm expecting you to come with Sheepster as your partner/handicap:wink: :devil: :flower:

OK, McGregster. The gloves are off.:devil: :devil: :devil: :innocent: Oh, OK one of these as well I suppose......:flower:

Good to see you last night, BTW

M

Bill

5th-February-2004, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by spindr
FYI: Kerrin, Luci and Jacqui from GingerJive will be competing again in the Double Trouble category.

SpinDr.

oh wonderful................:what: :sick: ............ can't everyone just not enter this year so we can win - before I give up completely :D

Denise, Fran and I were second last year and have managed the same amount of practice as we did last year - despite good intentions of making time. So ..........2 hours so far and another 2 or 3 hopefully beofre the comp. :rolleyes: Nothing like being prepared eh.......

Good luck girls and I'm sure it'll be a fun event again. I know the three girls from Aberdeen are looking very good as well so there should be at least 3 groups from Scotland.

Is it only 4 weeks time ???????????????? :sick:

Mary

5th-February-2004, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by Bill

Is it only 4 weeks time ???????????????? :sick:

Will you just stop it with this regular countdown thing.:angry: Are you trying to psych us all out or something?

Besides, if I remember rightly you came first at Hammersmith with DT!:clap:

M

Graham W

5th-February-2004, 02:28 PM

Will - pls do 'intermediates...'

Sorry but can't imagine anyone touching Andy & Kim unless Andy & Rena jump into action again...

Andy, that makes us 26th then :-( - dont tell my partner, thu..

Katie

5th-February-2004, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by Graham W

Andy, that makes us 26th then :-( - dont tell my partner, thu..

No, not at all... Andy is being over-confident...:wink: ......we're certain to come last.....oops, i mean the one before last (that's sheepy's place...:wink: )

Sheepman

5th-February-2004, 03:27 PM

Yippee! It's only 4 weeks and 2 days to go.

Then I can give up MJ for a month :tears: :tears:

greg

Sheepman

5th-February-2004, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by Katie
last (that's sheepy's place...:wink: ) :tears: :tears: :tears: So the truth is out, and that's all she thinks of me!

I'm going away to sulk now.

Greg

PS I've just noticed the :wink: I'll take a stab in the dark, and hope she was kidding. :waycool:

Gus

5th-February-2004, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by Graham W
Sorry but can't imagine anyone touching Andy & Kim

Urr ... who are Andy and Kim? Are they the latest 'Hot Shots'?:grin:

Bill

6th-February-2004, 01:19 AM

Originally posted by Mary
Will you just stop it with this regular countdown thing.:angry: Are you trying to psych us all out or something?

Besides, if I remember rightly you came first at Hammersmith with DT!:clap:

M

:whistle: :D .....yep we did....and you have no idea how much that cost us !!!!!!!!!! Can't afford to do it again....and NIgel and the others aren't open to bribes ( well not from me :innocent: )

Graham W

8th-February-2004, 02:39 AM

Clarification

Jayne - Will & Kate have won advanced at Bristol & BRitRoc nationals... er.

& ...

Andy & Kim have won last 2 areials titles at Blackpool..hotshots..?

:-)

G

I'll put away the anorak now..

Andy McGregor

8th-February-2004, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by Bill
..and NIgel and the others aren't open to bribes ( well not from me :innocent: )

I have tried bribing Nina. She accepted the chocolate but it didn't seem to influence her decision at all...

Daisy

8th-February-2004, 07:23 PM

Jayne - Will & Kate have won advanced at Bristol & BRitRoc nationals... er.

_______________________________________________

Correction......Will & Kate won the Open at Britroc cos Ray & I won the advanced.

L Jane :flower:

Bill

9th-February-2004, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I have tried bribing Nina. She accepted the chocolate but it didn't seem to influence her decision at all...

Damn.........that was my next plan.................... :sick: :na: I can just the chocs to you then Andy !! :D

DavidB

9th-February-2004, 12:39 PM

I'm not judging Blackpool, but I'm still open to bribes... :wink: :wink:

Dreadful Scathe

9th-February-2004, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by DavidB
I'm not judging Blackpool, but I'm still open to bribes... :wink: :wink:

Whats the next thing youre judging then ? :)

Groovy Dancer

9th-February-2004, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by DavidB
I'm not judging Blackpool, but I'm still open to bribes... :wink: :wink:

:whistle: How many zeros should I put on the cheque then?:D

Boomer

11th-February-2004, 12:47 PM

This may have been covered on another post, but could someone clarify what the minimum and maximum requirements for entering the 'Intermediate' category is? I'd be really intersted to know.:)

ChrisA

11th-February-2004, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by Boomer
This may have been covered on another post, but could someone clarify what the minimum and maximum requirements for entering the 'Intermediate' category is? I'd be really intersted to know.:)
The minimum requirements, for Blackpool at least, seem to be that (a) you and partner have a pulse and (b) you can stump up £15 between you.

Looking at the rules, it seems that anyone can enter intermediates except teachers and pros.

I've heard anecdotal comments to the effect that if you've been placed in intermediates, it's considered poor form to compete at that level again (at least with the same partner), but I can't find any reference to this in the C2D rules.

HTH,
Chris

Boomer

11th-February-2004, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by ChrisA
The minimum requirements, for Blackpool at least, seem to be that (a) you and partner have a pulse and (b) you can stump up £15 between you - Looking at the rules, it seems that anyone can enter intermediates except teachers and pros.
HTH,
Chris

:cheers: Helps quite a bit mate, I take iit the other groups are 'Advanced' and 'Open' and am I right in assuming that 'Open' is for anyone to enter, except Pros and teachers?

Katie

11th-February-2004, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by Boomer
I take iit the other groups are 'Advanced' and 'Open' and am I right in assuming that 'Open' is for anyone to enter, except Pros and teachers?

The only other category is 'Advanced', where it is open to anyone including teachers and professionals.

JamesGeary

11th-February-2004, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by ChrisA
Looking at the rules, it seems that anyone can enter intermediates except teachers and pros.

I've heard anecdotal comments to the effect that if you've been placed in intermediates, it's considered poor form to compete at that level again

Cool. I can enter intermediates. And its not even poor form.

Boomer

11th-February-2004, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by Katie
The only other category is 'Advanced', where it is open to anyone including teachers and professionals.

Thanks Katie, wasn't sure about the 'Open' category. So 'advanced' is open to teachers and pros as well, christ, tough category.

Originally posted by JamesGeary
Cool. I can enter intermediates. And its not even poor form.
Give me a few years and I'll think about it as well :D

Katie

11th-February-2004, 01:27 PM

Blackpool does not have an 'Open' section at the moment. The Ceroc champs and Britroc have an Open, Advanced and intermediate sections, with the teachers and professionals only allowed to compete in the 'Open'.
Hope that helps.

ChrisA

11th-February-2004, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by JamesGeary
Cool. I can enter intermediates. And its not even poor form.
Yeah, but we'd all laugh at ya.

And think how bad you'd feel if you didn't win.

:innocent:

Sheepman

11th-February-2004, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by JamesGeary
Cool. I can enter intermediates. You should go for it James, about time C2D had a shake up on their categories and rules.

Katie

11th-February-2004, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by Gus
who are the hot tips for the prizes this year?

Going back to the original post, there is a correlation between those who get placed in the showcase, also get placed in the advanced category..... Obviously there are exceptions but looking back on the past year (for which i can only comment because i had never watched a MJ competition before) the results do show this:

Ceroc Open:
Ist - Clayton and Janine
2nd - Debbie and partner
3rd - Lily and Amir (exception)

Showcase:
1st - Debbie Cantoni and ???
2nd - C AND J
3rd - ??

Blackpool Advanced:
1st - James and lily (exception)
2nd - C and J
3rd - Graham and Sarah

Showcase:
1st - Ash and Kim (exception)
2nd - Graham and Sarah
3rd - C and J

Britroc Open:
1st - Will and Kate
2nd - Adam and Tas
3rd - Simon and Christine (exception)

Showcase:
1st - C and J
2nd - Adam and Tas
3rd - Will and Kate

I know it may appear blindingly obvious that those who produce fantastic showcases are bound to do well in the freestyle categories (through sheer hard practice owed to the showcase) because they can transfer the 'wow' moves from the showcase into the freestyle. I know that doing a showcase is not a pre-requisite to win freestyle, as shown by the many exceptions, but perhaps it is a strong indicator of those who are going to win the advanced categories...... Of course, we cannot guess how much practice those who are entering only a freestyle category have done and there is no doubt that they can produce suberb dancing too!

I guess the answer is practice, practice, practice!!

Just a thought....

Kate

Gus

11th-February-2004, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by Katie
I know it may appear blindingly obvious that those who produce fantastic showcases are bound to do well in the freestyle categories

{ODA Mode}
And this would have nothing to do with the fact that if you watch the video of the freestyle you'll be able to spot 90% of the moves from the cabaret???? What price improvisation, musical interpretation etc. etc.
{ODA Mode Off}

Just a thought:devil: :devil: :wink:

Sheepman

11th-February-2004, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by Gus
{ODA Mode}
What price improvisation, musical interpretation etc. etc.
{ODA Mode Off} Same thing, practice, practice, practice, the easier the moves come to you, then the easier it is to fit them to the music, select appropriate moves, add improvisations . . .

Greg

Gus

11th-February-2004, 03:25 PM

Ahhh ... not talking about the odd move .... I'm talking about whole sequences being replicated in the freestyle. Is this true freestyle (is the Moon made of cheese)?

DavidB

11th-February-2004, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by Katie
I guess the answer is practice, practice, practice!!Which is why I won't be competing. I just want to turn up and compete. I don't want to spend the whole month prior to the competition trying to find somewhere to practice moves I'll never do again.

It will just be the DWAS for me again this year.

Originally posted by Gus
What price improvisation, musical interpretation etc. etc.Still waiting to see enough of it to rival the flash moves for impact.

David

Pammy

11th-February-2004, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by DavidB
It will just be the DWAS for me again this year.

If you're well enough you mean :wink:

DavidB

11th-February-2004, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by Pammy
If you're well enough you mean It's is a long-term aim of winning in May. Give everyone the Aberdeen Flu at Blackpool, and they won't recover in time!

Bill

11th-February-2004, 06:09 PM

Originally posted by Gus
Ahhh ... not talking about the odd move .... I'm talking about whole sequences being replicated in the freestyle. Is this true freestyle (is the Moon made of cheese)?

Well I suppose it could be freestyle if the moves go along with the music. If you've rehearsed the moves then why not use them ??? But I have seem some 'top dancers' repeat the same sequence of moves ( some on the same video !!!!!!!!!) time and time again. And seen some couples go through some moves which must have been a routine when they are completely out of time with the music - but if interpretation is only one element of the marks maybe they would still score well if the moves looked good.

I suppose I'm just jealous that even if I did practice I wouldn't remember the moves anyway :blush: :sick:

Mary

11th-February-2004, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by DavidB

It will just be the DWAS for me again this year.

David

You and Lily are going - Fab!:flower:

Can I pretend I am a stranger??? Pleeeease?:D

M

Dan Hudson

11th-February-2004, 06:21 PM

Ok, am entering the intermediates with Emma and we haven't ev en danced together since xmas for some reason or another.

We will possibly get a chance to practice once or twice prior to Blackpool.

Does this give us less of a chance ??

My opinion is, if you connect with someone on the dancefloor then it becomes easy and no need for practice!!

Or am i just a lazy git!!!

:wink: :cheers:

TheTramp

11th-February-2004, 06:25 PM

Practise??

Flash moves??

What are they!?!

Steve

Dreadful Scathe

11th-February-2004, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by Mary
You and Lily are going - Fab!:flower:

Can I pretend I am a stranger??? Pleeeease?:D

Do they come any stranger ? :D

Dan Hudson

11th-February-2004, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
Practise??

Flash moves??

What are they!?!

Exactly:D

Mary

11th-February-2004, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
Do they come any stranger ? :D

Ah-ha. So we have met.:wink:

M

Bill

11th-February-2004, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by Mary
Ah-ha. So we have met.:wink:

M

You surely wouldn't forget the Smurf.......... a weird blue fellow. But actually strangely likeable :what: :na:

Jive Brummie

11th-February-2004, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by Dan Hudson

Or am i just a lazy git!!!

:wink: :cheers:

.........:yeah: ........................:whistle::wink:

Heather

11th-February-2004, 11:22 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
Practise??

Flash moves??

What are they!?!

Steve

Of course, You wouldn't know dear, seeing that you are a 'beginner' !!!!!:rofl: :rofl: NOT.

:hug:
Heather,
X

Simon

21st-February-2004, 03:01 PM

Went to Cardiff last night. Hadn't seen Mark and Jackie dance in a while and was stunningly reminded that they are the best :grin:

Then the bad news: they will be competing in the Advanced Section at Blackpool after all. :sad:

Then some good news: remembered that the judges probably won't place them first. :confused: They don't do enough "modern jive". Just a brilliant eclectic mix of styles and complete musicality that leaves the rest of us in the shade.

Bill

22nd-February-2004, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by Simon
Went to Cardiff last night. Hadn't seen Mark and Jackie dance in a while and was stunningly reminded that they are the best :grin:

Interesting............:D ....Have seen Mark and Jackie dance a number of times and in one of their cabarets a few years ago I didn't like the music at all but still appreciated the moves and the choreography but their style isn't too my taste. I prefer something smoother but what it does show is how diverse mj styles are.

I can appreciate a range of styles - whether it be Dan, David, Nigel, Viktor, Amir etc... but might only really enjoy a few of them.

Should be quite a competition :na: :cheers:

Gus

22nd-February-2004, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by Simon
Went to Cardiff last night. Hadn't seen Mark and Jackie dance in a while and was stunningly reminded that they are the best :grin:
........
Then some good news: remembered that the judges probably won't place them first. :confused: They don't do enough "modern jive". Just a brilliant eclectic mix of styles and complete musicality that leaves the rest of us in the shade.

{ODA Mode ON}
Urrrr ..... reason them not winning could also be because the judges don't share your enthusiaism. At the top flight there are some very good dancers with many different shades and styles. I'm not sure that I would attribute lack of success to the "lack of Modern Jive content". Having said that. I think M&Js contribution, especialy on the cabaret front, has been a positive influenece on the competition front.
{ODA Mode OFF}

Bill

24th-February-2004, 02:04 PM

Well...................... only 11 days to go and we'll know who has won what this year. Think the Advanced and the Intermediate are going to be absolutely cracking this year and results could be very very close. :wink: :D

ChrisA

24th-February-2004, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by Bill
Well...................... only 11 days to go

Aaaarrrrrrrrggghgggghghghghgg :tears:

Mary

24th-February-2004, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by Bill
Well...................... only 11 days to go

help!!! (gulp) :sick:

M

Jayne

24th-February-2004, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by ChrisA
Aaaarrrrrrrrggghgggghghghghgg :tears:
WNMLO
:flower:

Bill

24th-February-2004, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by Jayne
WNMLO
:flower:

erm...............:confused:

Bill

24th-February-2004, 04:33 PM

11 days............plenty of time :D :tears: .................

but I get to see Fran and Denise's outfits on Saturday - a whole week before the comp - Fran is making them tomorrow - nothing like being well prepared :na: :D

Going to be very noisy again this year I think

:rolleyes: :clap:

Chris

24th-February-2004, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by Simon
Went to Cardiff last night. Hadn't seen Mark and Jackie dance in a while and was stunningly reminded that they are the best :grin:

Then the bad news: they will be competing in the Advanced Section at Blackpool after all. :sad:

Then some good news: remembered that the judges probably won't place them first. :confused: They don't do enough "modern jive". Just a brilliant eclectic mix of styles and complete musicality that leaves the rest of us in the shade.

The thing I like about Mark and Jackie's dancing is that it is always (for me) inspiring, innovative, both in composition and interpretation. I like their cabarets, which start off wobbly sometimes(!) and then usually end up very polished - which seems to be reflected in the competition results. Dancing with Jackie is always very refreshing - one of the most receptive leads I've ever danced with, but no doubt having such weird and wonderful stuff from Mark means she gets used to being on the ball. Fun, unaffected people to chat dance to as well (ok for me as someone likes to gab dance!)

But when it is being judged on ball-and-chain Ceroc/Leroc (eg in advanced freestyle) I sometimes wonder whether they find it interesting enough to get excited about - their aim seems to be innovation rather than mimicry (however good) - that works well for me but leaves some people cold.

Gareth

24th-February-2004, 05:43 PM

As Simon has already stated, rule out Mark & Jackie at your own peril. They are at presently dancing some amazing moves that leave most of us shell shocked.

I believe that Mark and Jackie`s style and innovations are way ahead of their time. I only wish that I could reflect their unique dancing styles into my own choreography. Mark adapts so many different styles into Jive, a lesson we could all do with taking o board. We all appreciate the individualism in Jiv,e surely this is the way ahead.

OR DO WE PROGRESS DOWN THE ROAD OF PRODUCING CLONE COPIES?:D

Rachel

25th-February-2004, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by Simon
Went to Cardiff last night. Hadn't seen Mark and Jackie dance in a while and was stunningly reminded that they are the best :grin:

Then the bad news: they will be competing in the Advanced Section at Blackpool after all. :sad:

Then some good news: remembered that the judges probably won't place them first. :confused: They don't do enough "modern jive". Just a brilliant eclectic mix of styles and complete musicality that leaves the rest of us in the shade. Hi Simon! Just had a thought (I'm often a bit slow!) - are you THE Simon who competed with Jennie Slade at Blackpool last year? If so, you were both awesome to watch - I loved every minute. The best thing was that you both looked as if you were having such brilliant fun. Are you competing again this year? I'd love to see ...
Rachel

BTW, I agree - I love Mark and Jackie's showcases. Very innovative, as Chris said. Marc finally got a dance with Jackie at IOW last year and said she was fantastic.

Bill

25th-February-2004, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by Gareth
I believe that Mark and Jackie`s style and innovations are way ahead of their time. I only wish that I could reflect their unique dancing styles into my own choreography. Mark adapts so many different styles into Jive, a lesson we could all do with taking o board. We all appreciate the individualism in Jiv,e surely this is the way ahead.

OR DO WE PROGRESS DOWN THE ROAD OF PRODUCING CLONE COPIES?:D

Would echo the last sentiment and I think mj is a broad enough church to encompass a range of styles. While not a fan of M & J's style I can appreciate the effort they put into their routines. But it's great to think that under the heading mj we can have Viktor, N & N, C & J, Amir, Lilly, Dan etc...... each from a different background but bringing some ballroom, latin, lindy, 'street' styles so we can all pick and mix :D

The only consolation about being knocked out in the first round of the advanced section is that we get to watch everyone else. Maybe it's time to go back to the Intemediates :what: :sick:

Mary

25th-February-2004, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by Bill

The only consolation about being knocked out in the first round of the advanced section is that we get to watch everyone else. Maybe it's time to go back to the Intemediates :what: :sick:

I would say that there is going to be some pretty stunning stuff to watch in intermediates as well.:cheers:

M

Simon

25th-February-2004, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by Rachel
are you THE Simon who competed with Jennie Slade at Blackpool last year?

Are you competing again this year? I'd love to see ....

Hello Rachel,

Yes that's me. Thank you for your kind comments. I lurk on the Forum but don't post much.

Unfortunately, Jennie can't compete at Blackpool this year :tears: :tears: so I'm competing in the Advanced Section with Keeley Chambers from Bournemouth (who I met at Rock Bottoms last November in Brighton). The philosophy will have to be much more about going along and having a bit of fun, though, because we've only been able to meet up to practice about 3 times (note, getting excuses in early! :wink: )

Andy McGregor

25th-February-2004, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by Simon
so I'm competing in the Advanced Section with Keeley Chambers from Bournemouth (who I met at Rock Bottoms last November in Brighton). The philosophy will have to be much more about going along and having a bit of fun, though, because we've only been able to meet up to practice about 3 times (note, getting excuses in early! :wink: )

But Keeley is a fantastic dancer and she looks a lot like Nina Daines too...

On a personal note, I'm competing in the advanced with Kate (on here as Katie). We've practiced about 4 times as she lives in London and is studying too. We will be practicing tonight at Hipsters though. My whole strategy will be based around clothing, I'm hoping for an inspiration soon...:tears:

TheTramp

25th-February-2004, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
We've practiced about 4 times as she lives in London and is studying too. Well, due to unfortunate circumstances, I'm not competing with Lisa anymore. Am now going to be competing with Hayley :worthy: instead.

So, we'll hopefully get some practise on the Friday night, at the dance. Having not actually danced together since last November.

Did someone mention getting the excuses in early :rolleyes: :innocent: :D

Trampy

Minnie M

25th-February-2004, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
......... hopefully get some practise on the Friday night, at the dance. Having not actually danced together since last November.
:rolleyes:

ditto !

Getting very nervous now, have only had the ocasional dance with Nigel since we decided to do the comp and haven't seen him since about November :tears: so will have to do our practise time on Friday too !

Keep telling myself, it is only a bit of fun and try to enjoy the buzz and not to expect anything - however, I would like to get to the finals :sick: (don't expect to get any further)

Bill

25th-February-2004, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by Minnie M
ditto !

Keep telling myself, it is only a bit of fun and try to enjoy the buzz and not to expect anything - however, I would like to get to the finals :sick: (don't expect to get any further)

Amazing how many of us have had so little practice............. be fun if we were all in the same heat :D - perhaps a round of '3 practice sessions or less' :na:

Fran and I have about 2 hours set aside on Saturday but we really would be absolutely delighted if we get through the first round. Have seen most of the people mentioned above and unfortunately we can't really compete at that level. But we do hope to have some fun - maybe in the double trouble :D

Simon

25th-February-2004, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by Bill
[B]Amazing how many of us have had so little practice.............
I wonder how much practice Gus and Helen are getting for the Advanced Section? :whistle:

Bill

25th-February-2004, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by Simon
I wonder how much practice Gus and Helen are getting for the Advanced Section? :whistle:

I didn't know the lovely Helen was competing. I really should have gone into the Intermediates :D One thing to look a little out of place at this level.......another to be completely out of your depth :tears: :sick:

Maybe if Fran and I stick to a little corner no-one will notice us and then we can just say we were never there :rolleyes: :whistle:

Andy McGregor

25th-February-2004, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by Simon
I wonder how much practice Gus and Helen are getting for the Advanced Section? :whistle:

Gus has gone very quiet. Maybe this 'cease and desist' thing is just a smoke-screen:devil:

And Gus has been saying he'll never enter another competition. It all points to 4 hours practice a day for 6 months...

Will

25th-February-2004, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
And Gus has been saying he'll never enter another competition.
What Gus? - a.k.a. Sugar Ray Jefferies!

Gus

25th-February-2004, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
And Gus has been saying he'll never enter another competition. It all points to 4 hours practice a day for 6 months...

And Gus is still isn't enetering as a competition ..... despite extreme reservations on my part about competing, I'd got a bit fed up of a number of 'experts' in the area telling me and Helen how our styles don't suit each other. So ... thought I'd put it to the test and see if we could prove them wrong. Actualy, not sure if we are in ... sent the form in on the last day for entries and not sure if we got one of the last few places.

To be honest, not really doing this as a big for the finals. We put a lot of work in last year and went straight out in the first round so I've got no dillusions of grandeur.... we've got two freestyles between now and the comp to try to remember what it is to dance with each other again. Think ChrisA has had more dances with Helen than me:wink:

Jut a thought ... dont you get sick to the back teeth of all these competitors saying "well I know we're competing but we've had NO time to practice, in fact I'm not sure if I've even met my partner" ... then throwing in moves like a tripple back mambo pretzel combo as soon as they hit the dance floor:angry:

Ooops ... seems like I'm guilty of the same!

Jayne

25th-February-2004, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by Gus
moves like a tripple back mambo pretzel combo
Boy am I glad I'm just an intermediate!!

Good to see you back on the circuit again Gus! I knew you couldn't stay away for long...

J :hug:

Gus

25th-February-2004, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by Jayne
Boy am I glad I'm just an intermediate!!

Since when?? You're beginning to sound like Trampy.

Not away from circuit ... just not a competiton junkie ... would prefer to do something usefull in the evening rather than practicing for competitions:devil:

Jayne

25th-February-2004, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by Gus
Since when?? You're beginning to sound like Trampy.

Not away from circuit ... just not a competiton junkie ... would prefer to do something usefull in the evening rather than practicing for competitions:devil:
Tramp's just a beginner - I'm an intermediate!

I do useful things in the evenings you know... :wink:

...I practice at the weekend! :na:

J :wink:

ChrisA

25th-February-2004, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by Gus
Think ChrisA has had more dances with Helen than me:wink:

Nowhere near enough, though

:worthy: :drool:

ChrisA

25th-February-2004, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by Gus
Since when?? You're beginning to sound like Trampy.

Since she made the extraordinarily rash decision to compete with an intermediate...

:whistle:

Jayne

25th-February-2004, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by ChrisA
Since she made the extraordinarily rash decision
eh? I'm a woman! ALL decisions are extraordinarily rash for me!!

J :wink:

Andy McGregor

25th-February-2004, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by ChrisA
Since she made the extraordinarily rash decision to compete with an intermediate...

:whistle:

Red card offence - use of a long word with lots of syllab...

Jive Brummie

25th-February-2004, 07:28 PM

Bill Foreman...........get a grip. I've been watching you and the lovely:wink: Fran dancing when I've seen you and as ever, you both look consistantly great. :worthy: I really do think that you're rightly entering the advanced and well deserve to be there.

You've been 'the' Scottish advanced dancers ever since I started Ceroc and still are.....

You don't get a name like 'Better Than Chocolate' for nothing you know.........so get your asses on that dance floor and show us all how good you both really are................

James........:cheers:

ok, butt kissing over..but all very true..you smooth sod!!!!!

ChrisA

25th-February-2004, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Red card offence - use of a long word with lots of syllab...
Soz...

"Barking" better?

Chris :na:

Bill

25th-February-2004, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by Jive Brummie
Bill Foreman...........get a grip. James........:cheers:

ok, butt kissing over..but all very true..you smooth sod!!!!!

:blush: :what: :innocent: ....ermm..gee ..thanks James. We'll do our best but the standard is really high and we have my notorious memory ( lack of to deal with) so I certainly won't be one of the competitors throwing ...what was it Gus...... triple back mambos..etc...... I'll be the one trying to remember what the hell a first move is :tears:

and this is not an attempt to appear modest or self effacing (honest). We both get very nervous ( as do most folk) and we're just not very good competition dancers.

However, for next year ( :sick: ) gonna shave off all my hair, go to the gym every day, get some funky clothes and dance to clubby stuff - works for you, Gus, Trampy and a few others :whistle: :clap: ..maybe need to ask Fran if she'd mind. Think she might be getting used to the hairy Bill.

At least we were in very good company last year ...we were out in the first round too. Although having seen Gus and Helen dance I was very surprised they didn't progress

Chicklet

26th-February-2004, 11:33 AM

I watched last year's Blackpool vid last night and want more discussion and hype and who's wearing what etc etc on this forum starting now and continuing until about 3pm next Fri when I will be leaving the office and heading for the motorway!.

Have we decided which is Caledonia corner in the new venue or will it have to be Caledonia SIDE this time???

GET EXCITED!!!!:waycool: :clap:

Bill

26th-February-2004, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by Chicklet
I watched last year's Blackpool vid last night and want more discussion and hype and who's wearing what etc etc on this forum starting now and continuing until about 3pm next Fri when I will be leaving the office and heading for the motorway!.

Have we decided which is Caledonia corner in the new venue or will it have to be Caledonia SIDE this time???

GET EXCITED!!!!:waycool: :clap:

Oooooooohhhhhhhh.............. nerves starting. Still haven't seen last year's video. See you there on FRiday night.........or at the party this Saturday ?????? :D

Jayne

26th-February-2004, 12:03 PM

So how many of the Scots (or honary Scots like Jive Brummie :wink: ) are going to the dinner dance thing on the Friday night?

J :nice:

TheTramp

26th-February-2004, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by Jayne
So how many of the Scots (or honary Scots like Jive Brummie :wink: ) are going to the dinner dance thing on the Friday night? Wasn't planning on. But since that's now the only practise that I'm going to get with Hayley, looks like we will be!! :what:

Steve

Mary

26th-February-2004, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by Jayne
So how many of the Scots (or honary Scots like Jive Brummie :wink: ) are going to the dinner dance thing on the Friday night?

J :nice:

I'm not a Scot :tears: :tears: , but we will be there for the dance of the Friday evening, and can't wait to meet up with all those fab people we saw last weekend :worthy: :clap:

Had a practise yesterday with one option outfit ............. cr*p practise, dress too short, knickers not looking attractive! Also had practise with Tone - also disaster.:tears: Went out dancing very depressed and was useless all evening :sad: Must be time of the month.:rolleyes:

Anyone else having such a good time??:whistle:

M

Bill

26th-February-2004, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by Mary
Had a practise yesterday with one option outfit ............. cr*p practise, dress too short, knickers not looking attractive! Also had practise with Tone - also disaster.:tears: Went out dancing very depressed and was useless all evening :sad: Must be time of the month.:rolleyes:

Anyone else having such a good time??:whistle:

M

Need any help with the costume................. or advice on your knickers :what: :wink: .........sure they looked great :na:

Sounds like our DT practice last Saturday............... was awful and I can only hope whatthey say about bad rehearsal ...great performance is true.

In that case sounds like you'll be terrific :D and if it is the time of the month then that means you'll be feeling wonderful for Saturday ...............Tone - beware :rolleyes: :whistle:

Jayne

26th-February-2004, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by Mary
Anyone else having such a good time??:whistle:

I still don't have a complete outfit, was also dancing badly last night, felt totally inadequate when watching the other girls at Hipsters, abandoned Chris on the dancefloor half-way through a track and went home feeling very depressed....

Competitions hey?

J :tears: *sigh*

Bill

26th-February-2004, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by Jayne
So how many of the Scots (or honary Scots like Jive Brummie :wink: ) are going to the dinner dance thing on the Friday night?

J :nice:

Will be there but probably not till nearly 10.00.

Looks like most of us will be trying to get some practice in with our partners.................. :D :sick: ............ It'll be fun - won't it :sick: :whistle:

Gus

26th-February-2004, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by Mary
Had a practise yesterday with one option outfit ............. cr*p practise, dress too short, knickers not looking attractive! Also had practise with Tone - also disaster.:tears: Went out dancing very depressed and was useless all evening :sad:

Anyone else having such a good time??:whistle:

M

Mary ... chill .... no matter what practice you've pout in before ... lots or none ... once the adrenalin kicks in and you've got the crowd behind you ... it'll all come together :grin: Try to enjoy it .. its only for fun.
Make mental note to try to follow these sage words himself:sick:

David Franklin

26th-February-2004, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by Mary
Went out dancing very depressed and was useless all evening :sad: Well I didn't think you were useless at all! But what with the sticky floor and freezing temperature at Acton I don't think anyone was having too great a time last night (when even *I* keep a sweatshirt on you know it must be cold!).

Dave

Mary

26th-February-2004, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by Gus

Make mental note to try to follow these sage words himself:sick:

:rofl: :D

As I missed you at BB last weekend, must make a point of meeting you in Blackpool. All the best for said event BTW, and to the rest of us nutters daft enough to do this sort of thing.:cheers:

M

ChrisA

26th-February-2004, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by Jayne
was also dancing badly last night,
Oh yeah, like 99.999% of that wasn't my fault... :rolleyes:

Competitions hey?Who was it told me that MJ comps are low stress compared with ballroom????

:tears:

Chris

Jayne

26th-February-2004, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by ChrisA
Who was it told me that MJ comps are low stress compared with ballroom????
Remember: low stress doesn't mean no stress.

J *sigh*

Bill

26th-February-2004, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by Gus
Mary ... chill .... no matter what practice you've pout in before ... lots or none ... once the adrenalin kicks in and you've got the crowd behind you ... it'll all come together :grin: Try to enjoy it .. its only for fun.
Make mental note to try to follow these sage words himself:sick:

Great advice Gus.................. must remember and take the spare adrenalin ............ get the crowd behind us ...mmmmm wonder what I can do to get noticed :sick: :na: ......... Big Derek and Franck's already done the kilt thing....... maybe I could do something to surprise Fran on the dancefloor :whistle:

TheTramp

26th-February-2004, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by Bill
....... maybe I could do something to surprise Fran on the dancefloor :whistle: Dance well??? :devil: :whistle:

(Just kidding :D )

Trampy

Mary

26th-February-2004, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
Dance well??? :devil: :whistle:

(Just kidding :D )

Trampy

OUCH!!! That's a penalty Trampy.

M

Katie

26th-February-2004, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by Mary

Had a practise yesterday with one option outfit ............. cr*p practise

M

You are being far too modest Mary, from what i saw, you and Sheepy looked great.....it may feel cr*p, but it does not look it!!

Are you wearing that little number you showed me?? :whistle: :whistle:

Kate

Andy McGregor

26th-February-2004, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Katie
You are being far too modest Mary, from what i saw, you and Sheepy looked great.....it may feel cr*p, but it does not look it!!

I know they looked great but tell them they need to change everything. We've got to beat them and I'm down to considering stealing Mary's outfit - which sounds like it could fit in my wallet:devil:

Originally posted by Katie
Are you wearing that little number you showed me?? :whistle: :whistle:

Kate

And what about your outfit Kate? I've seen you, I've seen the outfit, I just haven't seen the two together. I'll bet you look fantastic:flower:

All I've got to do now is come up with something to do you justice:blush: :tears:

Oh yes, almost forgot, I've got to learn to dance too...

Sheepman

26th-February-2004, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by Mary
Went out dancing very depressed and was useless all evening Not true, and that's not just my opinion. OK I know the floor, and your partner :blush: didn't help, but it wasn't all bad!

Greg

Minnie M

26th-February-2004, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by Katie
You are being far too modest Mary..........

Yep :yeah:

Have a little more confidence Mary :flower: you have grace and style and a touch of cheekyness when dancing and a great figure you always look good (I hate you :wink: ) - listen to your partner(s) they will tell you :wink:

Sheepman

26th-February-2004, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
- which sounds like it could fit in my wallet:devil: Even in your wallet I think you could fit 4 of them in! The knickers thing didn't bother me, :devil: but I fear that now it's been posted over the forum, M will now be too coy to go for that outfit!

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
And what about your outfit Kate? I've seen you, I've seen the outfit, I just haven't seen the two together. I'll bet you look fantastic
Andy, is not like you to state the obvious! Kate, have you seen your outfit yet? :really:

Greg

Sheepman

26th-February-2004, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by Jayne
and went home feeling very depressed....

Competitions hey?
Yes Jayne, been there, done that, maybe there should be a t-shirt?

Greg

BTW you looked great, even when my leading was cr*p!

Bill

26th-February-2004, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
Dance well??? :devil: :whistle:

(Just kidding :D )

Trampy

if I did it would be the first time in a competition :D ......and I can say that having seen me dance in London :sick: and after the performance in Blackpool last year :rolleyes: :whistle:

Maybe I can just dance behind you Steve...........judges might not notice me......................... :rofl: :na:

TheTramp

26th-February-2004, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by Bill
Maybe I can just dance behind you Steve...........judges might not notice me......................... :rofl: :na: Nah. I've lost some weight now already. ((Much) More to lose too) :D

Trampy

Katie

26th-February-2004, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor

And what about your outfit Kate?

I love the outfit Andy, thankyou so much...:hug: ...one less thing to worry about.

Katie

26th-February-2004, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor

Oh yes, almost forgot, I've got to learn to dance too...

first things first Andy, i thought you had other ideas about improving our dancing......:wink:

Lory

26th-February-2004, 04:43 PM

Can I ask,
of the people on the Forum, who's competing, who with and in which category?

Just so I can get in the spirit of things, even though I'm not going! :rolleyes:

:cheers:

Bill

26th-February-2004, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Lory
Can I ask,
of the people on the Forum, who's competing, who with and in which category?

Just so I can get in the spirit of things, even though I'm not going! :rolleyes:

:cheers:

I'm dancing with Fran in the Advanced (:sick: :tears: ) and Fran and Denise in the Double Trouble. We're both in for the DWAS - I never get very far with that but Fran came 4th two years ago :D

Pity you can't be there..............I'd have worn some velcro to se if I could 'catch' anything :na: :whistle:

Sheepman

26th-February-2004, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by Katie
first things first Andy, i thought you had other ideas about improving our dancing......:wink: Hey, if your referring to what I think your referring to, don't forget that Andy says I have to make a full report first :what: :really: :blush:

And if you're not referring to that, um :blush: :blush: :blush:

Greg

Minnie M

26th-February-2004, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by Lory
...SNIP....

oh Lory - I am so upset you are not coming - it will not be the same without you :tears:

AND who will be taking the photos :confused:

Andy McGregor

26th-February-2004, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by Katie
first things first Andy, i thought you had other ideas about improving our dancing......:wink:

I was just mis-quoting a good friend when I said he'd told me 'You dance better as a couple if you sleep together':devil::wink:

What he actually said was that if you dance well together you are compatible in other 'physical' ways too - but in his experience, once you've slept together some of the 'tension' goes out of your dancing.

So my conclusion is that, for the sake of dancing well together, I will not sleep with Kate - even if she begs me:whistle:

Oh yes, and for Lory, I'm entering the following;

Intermediate with Hollie - wearing a 'sexy' outfit...
Advanced with Kate - looking stylish and classy
Dance with a stranger - with a very disappointed woman:tears:

p.s. I will not be sleeping with Hollie or my 'stranger' either.

Katie

26th-February-2004, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor

So my conclusion is that, for the sake of dancing well together, I will not sleep with Kate - even if she begs me:whistle:

Did i even suggest this...:innocent: ?

Sheepman

26th-February-2004, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I for the sake of dancing well together, I will not sleep with Kate - even if she begs me That goes for me too! :really: Thanks for that clarification Andy, you've saved me a lot of bother and expense (I'm guessing that Kate would need a whole LOT of champagne before she would start begging :wink: ) Pretty much agrees with my theory anyway.

So at Blackpool I will be disappointing at least 3 women (on the dancefloor).
My TAC partner
Kate in the Intermediate
Mary in the Advanced

Greg

Andy McGregor

26th-February-2004, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by Katie
Did i even suggest this...:innocent: ?

In my fetid imaginings the statement below meant you'd registered my suggestion...

Originally posted by Katie
first things first Andy, i thought you had other ideas about improving our dancing......:wink:

Since my wife started dancing I've had absolutely no offers from women - I've had to start imagining them:devil:

p.s. I never got any offers before Sue started either:tears:

Andy McGregor

26th-February-2004, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by Sheepman
That goes for me too! :really: Thanks for that clarification Andy,

Greg

You wouldn't have to beg me Greg:devil:

Sheepman

26th-February-2004, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by Katie
Did i even suggest this...? Erm . . . my memory of events is hazy, but you DID bring it up again after I was trying to forget all about it! :really: :tears:

Greg

Katie

26th-February-2004, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
You wouldn't have to beg me Greg:devil:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Sheepman

26th-February-2004, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
You wouldn't have to beg me Greg:devil: Yes I know, but I thought we resolved that one last night :really:

Greg

Bill

26th-February-2004, 06:10 PM

This should be interesting .with a couple of folk already indicating they are entering at two levels :what: :sick:

Is that acceptable ????? I remember a debate on here last year about which level people should enter and the consensus ( I htink) was that a couple should always dance 'up' to the level of the 'better' dancer.

If someone is in for the advanced - and assuming he or she is an 'advanced' dancer can they also dance at a 'lower' level as well :confused: Won't this create a bit of disagreement or potential problems during the comps ??????

I even remember a rumour that someone was disqualified for entering a level that was clealry too low for them. Don't know if that's true.

Could be interesting then.................:wink:

Andy McGregor

26th-February-2004, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by Bill
This should be interesting .with a couple of folk already indicating they are entering at two levels :what: :sick:

Is that acceptable ????? I remember a debate on here last year about which level people should enter and the consensus ( I htink) was that a couple should always dance 'up' to the level of the 'better' dancer.

It is my belief that the organiser should state the rules and competitors should stick to them. At the Britroc competition, where I wrote the rules, I stated that couples who'd already placed in intermediate comps were not eligible for that level. There is no such restriction at Blackpool. If it was wrong to compete at a level then I think the organisers should put that in their rules. I'm sticking to the rules, who could criticise me for that - although I can think of one person that will:tears:

I think it would be wrong for a couple to compete in both the intermediate and the advanced, even if they qualified by not being teachers. However, Greg and I are competing with different partners. And the reason I'm competing with two women is because that's how many wanted to compete as my partner:waycool:

But, don't worry guys, I won't be coming anywhere. I've seen the competition and we don't have a chance:tears: But we will be having a fantastic time. And afterwards, when I don't need to worry about spoiling the 'tension' between me and my partners....:wink::devil:

Rachel

26th-February-2004, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by Bill
...which level people should enter and the consensus ( I htink) was that a couple should always dance 'up' to the level of the 'better' dancer.... Oh, I don't remember that discussion. So you mean that if, say, a poor intermediate entered the advanced with an advanced partner, they wouldn't necessarily get laughed off the floor and be slated for wasting valuable floor space?

TheTramp

26th-February-2004, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by Rachel
Oh, I don't remember that discussion. So you mean that if, say, a poor intermediate entered the advanced with an advanced partner, they wouldn't necessarily get laughed off the floor and be slated for wasting valuable floor space? In no-one's mind (except obviously your own) are you a poor intermediate. You'll be just great Rachel :hug:

Trampy

Gus

26th-February-2004, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by Bill
If someone is in for the advanced - and assuming he or she is an 'advanced' dancer can they also dance at a 'lower' level as well :confused: Won't this create a bit of disagreement or potential problems during the comps ??????

Bit surprised by this as well. If you're intermediate you dance in the intermediate section, if you're advanced you dance in the Advanced section don’t you?

The rules for the Ceroc Champs (similar to most other competitions) says the following, "Competitors from the Intermediate and Open Freestyle Trophy sections are not permitted to enter this section. "

I must admit that I was always a little sore at having to compete at advanced level just because I passed my teachers exams a few months earlier (so I didn’t bother entering) whereas I'd barely been good enough to enter intermediate the previous year.

I'm not trying to be funny ... but shouldn't people enter one level and one level alone and let the true intermediates fight it out? :waycool:

Rachel

26th-February-2004, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
In no-one's mind (except obviously your own) are you a poor intermediate. You'll be just great Rachel :hug:

Trampy I was, um, speaking hypothetically....

(But thanks anyway!!)
R.

Simon

26th-February-2004, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I'm sticking to the rules, who could criticise me for that

Andy's right: even if there is an accepted "Highest Common Denominator" rule to couples choosing which category to compete in (and I think there is) it should've been stipulated on the application form. But I think if someone enters both categories and wins them both (or, perhaps even gets placed) the organisers will have egg on their faces and it might not do the credibility of the comp much good.

Now, is it too late for me to find an Intermediate woman to compete with, too? :nice:

Andy McGregor

26th-February-2004, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by Gus
I'm not trying to be funny ... but shouldn't people enter one level and one level alone and let the true intermediates fight it out? :waycool:

Speaking personally, I am a true intermediate dancer. I don`t teach and I`m not as good a dancer as anyone who got to last years semi-final in the Advanced section. But I would like to be in a few more rounds than last year when I got knocked out of the intermediate in the semi-final. So I`ve taken a step up and entered the Advanced section. And I`m doing it for fun, with no expectation of getting very far - but for one brief moment I will be up there with Clayton/Janine, Graham/Sarah, Elliott/Della, Simon/Keeley, Trampster/???, etc. And in the photos who will know that I didn`t make the grade:devil:

Andy McGregor

26th-February-2004, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by Simon
Andy's right: even if there is an accepted "Highest Common Denominator" rule to couples choosing which category to compete in (and I think there is) it should've been stipulated on the application form. But I think if someone enters both categories and wins them both (or, perhaps even gets placed) the organisers will have egg on their faces and it might not do the credibility of the comp much good.

Now, is it too late for me to find an Intermediate woman to compete with, too? :nice:

Keeley doesn't teach, if Simon hasn't been paid to teach in the last 2 years he qualifies as an 'intermediate' too. So they could enter the intermediate together - but I think the result would be a rewriting or the rules for next year as I think they would be placed in both comps.

DavidB

26th-February-2004, 07:13 PM

I don't see anything wrong with entering different freestyle categories (ie intermediate and advanced) with different partners. As long as you fulfull the criteria for each division, then what is the problem? You are paying both entry fees. You aren't breaking any rules.

I doubt anyone entering both categories expects to win both. They are the dancers who simply enjoy competing, and now get twice the fun (and twice the stress!) It becomes like a third category - 'Dance With A Friend'.

If enough people objected to it, then I'm sure the organisers would change the rules. Personally I think that would be a shame.

David

Chris

26th-February-2004, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
So I`ve taken a step up and entered the Advanced section. And I`m doing it for fun, with no expectation of getting very far - but for one brief moment I will be up there with Clayton/Janine, Graham/Sarah, Elliott/Della, Simon/Keeley, Trampster/???, etc.
Go for it! Who knows - they may all bump into each other / get disquaified. There was a year where Trampster got disqualified I think when Tanya did the prettiest of baby jettees during a walk around - but both feet off the floor together - ooops!

Seriously though I think it's a different experience, and just as much fun but in a different way, competing in advanced and intermediate. In Advanced you are expected to strut your stuff, there's far fewer dancers on the floor and the whole atmosphere is just a bit different. Intermediate you can still 'blend' a bit if you don't relish quite that much pressure.

Sheepman

26th-February-2004, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Speaking personally, I am a true intermediate dancer. I don`t teach and I`m not as good a dancer as anyone who got to last years semi-final in the Advanced section. I reckon that sums it up for me too. Though this is where the different categories at different competitions complicate matters, at Britroc and Ceroc championships there were 3 main categories. If there was a non-pros section at Blackpool for Advanced that's where I'd be, somewhere in the middle of the current 2 Blackpool categories. I've said before that this is a problem with the rules at Blackpool, up until a couple of weeks ago before he did any teaching, James Geary, who won last year in the advanced, would have been eligible for the Intermediate. (Have I got that right James?) I would have been surprised if he'd gone for it, but would have no problem with that as it is clearly within the rules.

I think it is also relevant how much time you've spent dancing with a partner, a truly Advanced dancer may be able to work perfectly with a partner within a couple of days of getting together. I certainly can't, although it is fun trying. And David, the stress of dancing with 2 partners is far more than double that of just one partner (so far anyway)!!!

Greg

Andy McGregor

26th-February-2004, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by Sheepman
the stress of dancing with 2 partners is far more than double that of just one partner (so far anyway)!!!

Greg

I'm still hoping they're going to fight over me:wink:

Gus

26th-February-2004, 09:00 PM

Can we ONCE and FOR ALL get past this assumption that because you are a teacher you are advanced and if you dont teach you dont have to be.

especially when I started teaching, I would be stood on stage in front of dancers who were WAY better dancers than me. YET, they could, if they so desired enter Intermediate whereas I was supposed to enter Advanced. I can understand why dance orgnaisers put 'Pros' in the advanced but to lump Nigel & Nina in with some someone who has just completed their CTA is ludicrous. If you are an Advanced dancer you should dance in Advanced and if you are Intermediate you should dance in Intermediate .... where is the fault in that logic!

I've got no issue with someone trying to compete at a higher grade ... I've got a HUGE problem with someone trying to compete at a lower grade ... st*ff the rules, its bad form!

Rant over ... for now

Lounge Lizard

26th-February-2004, 09:06 PM

Just found out the blues room at Blackpool champs is open till 2am Saturday night/Sunday morinning, this is in addition to main ballroom - so hope to see you guy's in there.
peter

Stuart M

26th-February-2004, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by Gus
I've got no issue with someone trying to compete at a higher grade ... I've got a HUGE problem with someone trying to compete at a lower grade ... st*ff the rules, its bad form!

I agree, but from a different perspective.

No-one seems to have pointed out yet that someone doubling up "for fun" may well be depriving a couple wanting to have a go in Intermediate, if the competition is over-subscribed. As an improver, I've found the competition acts as a good target for practicing, and it would be a shame if others like myself were deprived the opportunity, because of someone "mucking about".

I think doubling up should only be allowed if a competition hasn't been fully subscribed by the closing date.

Lounge Lizard

26th-February-2004, 09:34 PM

Sorry you are either intermediate or advanced - if you cant decide which then dont enter either

This is a serious competition and Greg, Andy, Holly & Kate are all advanced dancers so why are you entering the intermediate section
As far as I am aware the following is correct
Andy - Ceroc 2003 advanced with Nina (finalist I think)
Greg - Placed in intermediate comps and DWAS winner
Holly - Ceroc 2003 Advanced finalist + Jivemasters finalist
Katie - Britroc 2003 Advance section with Ben

I think if any of you guys won the intermediates it would raise questions,
or what if you became finalist in the advanced and lost out in intermediates.

It may not be in the rules but it smacks of win at all costs not a fun day out - I dont think any of you want this label,

Sorry you guys are all friends but I think this is wrong.

Peter

Gus

26th-February-2004, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
Andy - Ceroc 2003 advanced with Nina (finalist I think)
Greg - Placed in intermediate comps and DWAS winner
Holly - Ceroc 2003 Advanced finalist + Jivemasters finalist
Katie - Britroc 2003 Advance section with Ben

Come on guys ... this isnt right! Even if the rules dont state it for this particular competition, there is a general understanding that if you've been placed in an Intermediate competition or competed at Advanced (Open or whatever) .... you compete at Advanced from then on. How would it be if Della and Elliot competed again this year?

To be honest, given that JiveMasters was touted as the 'Best of the Best' ... how can anyone who competed in that then enter Intermediate? Come on ... you've had your shot at intermediates, play fair and let the next group of hopefulls have a shot at a title.

Lounge Lizard

26th-February-2004, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by Stuart M
I agree, but from a different perspective.

No-one seems to have pointed out yet that someone doubling up "for fun" may well be depriving a couple wanting to have a go in Intermediate, if the competition is over-subscribed. As an improver, I've found the competition acts as a good target for practicing, and it would be a shame if others like myself were deprived the opportunity, because of someone "mucking about".

I think doubling up should only be allowed if a competition hasn't been fully subscribed by the closing date. This could also mean 4 less 'bums on seats' for the C2D team - if they cant enter they may not go at all

Minnie M

26th-February-2004, 09:50 PM

Hmmmmm.... me thinks :whistle: if you are over 50, does that mean you could enter that section as well :wink:

I agree it is getting very silly :rofl:

What do think of my "Rocking Granny" avatar - I'm getting ready for the Senior Section

Chris

26th-February-2004, 09:55 PM

Although I'm not entering this year I agree with DavidB on this one and differ from the position taken by LL, Gus and Stuart. This is not to say that you couldn't have rules introduced on who can enter what, but given the comps are as they are I think everyone is entitled to treat them as fun in their own way, without accusations of bad form or whatever - that's just your opinion, and is not, as yet, reflected in the rules.

I've certainly comtemplated entering different categories with different partners etc - I think that increases the fun - and everyone has the same chance of applying in time. If you get your form in in time it's not a case of taking someone else's place.

I hope everyone has good fun. I can see how results are more crucial to people who have been dancing a long time, well-established, and have never one anything, but this is UK MJ, not Ballroom or even Australasian MJ. Keep it in perspective guys!

(Is it funny how we never see the girls getting all serious on comps?)

Stuart M

26th-February-2004, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by Chris
Although I'm not entering this year I agree with DavidB on this one and differ from the position taken by LL, Gus and Stuart. This is not to say that you couldn't have rules introduced on who can enter what, but given the comps are as they are I think everyone is entitled to treat them as fun in their own way, without accusations of bad form or whatever - that's just your opinion, and is not, as yet, reflected in the rules.

You don't seem to have read my point. I agree entirely that competing should be about fun - my point is that those doubling up are (potentially) depriving lesser mortals like myself from joining in the fun!

Presumably you would have no problem about being shut out of a concert or movie, because someone else wanted to buy two tickets for themselves in case they didn't like one of the seats...:na:

Lounge Lizard

26th-February-2004, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by Chris
I hope everyone has good fun. I can see how results are more crucial to people who have been dancing a long time, well-established, and have never one anything, but this is UK MJ, not Ballroom or even Australasian MJ. Keep it in perspective guys!
Chis for a member of Mensa you do talk a load of B**locks at times (no I am not flaming you)
MJ is what WE do this is the number one competition in the UK representing OUR dance not ballroom or OZ style MJ but UK Modern Jive.

Therefore IMHO certain rules are immplied - you are either beginner, intermediate or advanced.

Oh and Andy I have an Email that states 'your earnings from teaching at Sarah's was kindly donated to charity' As C2D are probably on her mailing list does this not put them in an awkward position - I know you are not a teacher but rules are rules......cake & eat it perhaps.
.
.
.
.
.Thats a bl**dy silly saying what's the point of having a cake if you are not going to eat it!!

Gus

26th-February-2004, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by Chris
.....but this is UK MJ, not Ballroom or even Australasian MJ. Keep it in perspective guys!
size]

Chris ... what are you on??

These are the UK Champs. Some people have put in a hell of a lot of time, effort and expense to compete. For some, reputations are on the line. You may not be a serious instructor but a fair few of the competitors are and it can make a fair old impact on their reputation if they fail to perform.

If you want a competiton thats 'just for fun' ..... then go do one of the regionals. The likes of Mel and James will be going out there busting a gut for the pride of Scotland and to show the tremendous amount of dedication they've committed. Is it fair for them to then get beaten by a 'advanced' dancer whjo decides to drop down a level for an easier shot at a title and some cash??

Lets keep it in perspective by all means, but my personal opinion is that people should have the mutuial respect to compete at the appropraite level and within the spirit of the competiton. Is that too much to ask?

Jive Brummie

26th-February-2004, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by Gus
Chris ... what are you on??

These are the UK Champs. Some people have put in a hell of a lot of time, effort and expense to compete. For some, reputations are on the line. You may not be a serious instructor but a fair few of the competitors are and it can make a fair old impact on their reputation if they fail to perform.

If you want a competiton thats 'just for fun' ..... then go do one of the regionals. The likes of Mel and James will be going out there busting a gut for the pride of Scotland and to show the tremendous amount of dedication they've committed. Is it fair for them to then get beaten by a 'advanced' dancer whjo decides to drop down a level for an easier shot at a title and some cash??

Lets keep it in perspective by all means, but my personal opinion is that people should have the mutuial respect to compete at the appropraite level and within the spirit of the competiton. Is that too much to ask?

:yeah:

Gareth

26th-February-2004, 10:50 PM

Personally I would be very unhappy to miss out on a quarter final/semi final or final placing because some one from advance decided to drop down a category. confused:

What is the reasoning behind this? An easy title?

For those of us who have never made any national finals, it would be a travesty to miss out. It has been correctly pointed out that this would create a farce.

sarahw31

26th-February-2004, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by Gareth
Personally I would be very unhappy to miss out on a quarter final/semi final or final placing because some one from advance decided to drop down a category.

:yeah:

I have never competed, it's not something that appeals to me personally ( and I'm not good enough :tears: ) but I appreciate that for those who have worked hard and put in hours and hours of practice, it would indeed be devastating to be pipped to a title by someone who has dropped down a level.

Hardly in the spirit of the competition, IMHO

Gus

26th-February-2004, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by sarahw31
.........but I appreciate that for those who have worked hard and put in hours and hours of practice, it would indeed be devastating to be pipped to a title by someone who has dropped down a level.

Hardly in the spirit of the competition, IMHO

Well said Sarah:grin:

There will always be a conflict of interest between thos who take competitions seriously, those who want to compete for fun, and those who are out there purely to make a name for themselves. I'm not saying that any one group is right or wrong, but the more established Swing/MJ events (see USA, Australia) have a few more rules governing who should compete in what category and when. The Aussies seem to favour allowing dancers to compete at the same level for a year after being placed, then the dnacers are expected to move up. that works for me:grin:

There is also the thorny question of an advanced dancer with a less experineced partner. To be honest, dont know on this one ... but I think if its the Nationals, then the rules need to be stricter. There are 'other' competitions, e.g. Ceroc Scotland, SWest LeRoc champs etc .. where not so much is at stake .. maybe these are events where a bit more latitude is accepted ... but will that alwys be the way? It seems like the Ceroc Scotland Champs are becoming more competitive .... will they too need to be stricter in the face of people abusing ettiquette :tears:

Divissima

26th-February-2004, 11:41 PM

Have been saving my 500th post for a subject very close to my heart... As someone who has competed, and devoted a lot of time to practising, of course the question of who may be eligible to enter which categories is important. However, I think it is up to the competition organisers to set rules as to who is eligible to enter which category - it is unrealistic to expect people to conform to an unwritten code of ethical conduct. Why should one couple 'do the decent thing' and compete advanced when another couple (who may be of superior ability) qualify for intermediate and choose to compete at the lower level?

In an ideal world, of course this would work. Otherwise, I think that the rules should set out strict entry criteria (as was the case at Britroc and is the case for Australian competitions). Whether a couple was entering seriously wanting to win or was entering 'just for fun' , by setting clear rules this would hopefully produce a more transparent result.

This debate came up last year as well - and my recollection is that there are always some rumblings about people who enter intermediate who some think should have entered advanced. Clear rules would help everyone. Before we entered Sydney, Mark Harding told us that couples who entered a category for which they were ineligible would be disqualified - and that he had disqualified highly-placed couples in previous years. Harsh as it may sound, clear rules benefit everyone.

Bill

26th-February-2004, 11:59 PM

Originally posted by Simon
. But I think if someone enters both categories and wins them both (or, perhaps even gets placed) the organisers will have egg on their faces and it might not do the credibility of the comp much good.

:nice:

have to disagree completely with this...I don't think it's the organisers who will have egg on their faces but the competitors who,I think, will also find their reputations rather tarnished.

I've seen some of those mentioned in videos and they are all terrific dancers and have done well in a number of comps.

No rule would be broken but I think the spirit of the competition would be. I do believe Andy and the others are entering just for fun and if he and the others were competing with a partner who was pretty new and inexperienced than it might just be acceptable but I think many might see it as a blatant attempt to win a prize and so leave a bad taste in the mouth.

As Greg points out it is quite a leap from Intermeidates to Advanced at Blackpool but possibly less so at London because of the Open category. Many of us do struggle to compete at the Advanced level and maybe should go 'down' to the Intermediates because Greg, Hollie, Andy and Kate are way better than me and Fran so maybe a re-think is necessary.

Chris

27th-February-2004, 12:18 AM

Originally posted by Divissima
the question of who may be eligible to enter which categories is important. However, I think it is up to the competition organisers to set rules as to who is eligible to enter which category - it is unrealistic to expect people to conform to an unwritten code of ethical conduct. Why should one couple 'do the decent thing' and compete advanced when another couple (who may be of superior ability) qualify for intermediate and choose to compete at the lower level?

In an ideal world, of course this would work. Otherwise, I think that the rules should set out strict entry criteria (as was the case at Britroc and is the case for Australian competitions).
Exactly. If a couple who were both top winners in advanced dropped down a category to secure a win I think this would be viewed badly by many or most, but it is up to the organisers to decide whether a rule about this is included and how.

The practicality is more that someone will compete in a category that they feel is appropriate for whatever reasons. Very occasionally, that might mean competing in more than one category with different partners.

The whole thing about an ethical code of conduct is that it is generally or universally accepted. people have so many different views about what is genuinely acceptable in competitions that it is more th written rules that have universal respect. If there is a case that seems eminently unfair, even if not prohibited by the rules, then there could perhaps be a case IMO for the organisers to have a word with the competitors and ask them to reconsider (this itself can benefit from certain rules.)

Rules are there to benefit people, not pull them into line. Usually the rules that transpire are the ones that the majority are prepared to accept. The present ones perhaps show the level of near-universal agreement.
:flower:

Amir

27th-February-2004, 12:23 AM

My random thoughts on some stuff discussed:

I think its up to the competition organizers to decide what is and is not appropriate behavior and incorporate it into the rules. People should not feel bad about doing stuff they are allowed to do according to the rules, as if this creates a problem it means the rules can become even more refined the next year.

Entering two categories at a time is a widely advocated strategy for gaining twice as much experience in one go and really testing your stamina!

Emails to competition organizers pointing out the disadvantages of certain rules may help.

Allowing professional dancers to enter the intermediate section and pick up an easy holiday abroad (Ceroc) is probably a hole in the rules, but its up to the organizers to fix it.

Anyone who can win intermediate or any other category twice in a row deserves to and I take my hat off to them. Its harder than it looks and is not a sure thing for anyone.

Coming 3rd is nothing like coming 1st. There is a huge gap for your rep, your ego and your prize money. If I came 3rd in a category I would stay in it until I won it. Then I would win it a couple more times just to make sure it wasn't a fluke.

The nature of competition is that only one couple wins and feels amazing for a few days, and everyone else probably feels a little disappointed. That’s why at kiddies birthday parties they make sure everyone gets to win at least something so no one goes home crying. But outside these parties, sometimes you lose and often its not fair.

A competition is serious if you take it seriously, and is fun if you do it for a laugh.

The above is only my opinion. I've noticed that if people or their friends do well in a competition they think its well organised, and if they don't then the rules, judges and organisation are crap.

To those who are competing: In my competing and performing experience I've always found it best to focus on what you are doing and not worry about what anyone else is doing or thinking. I never disturb my focus by watching people dancing before my turn, for example, and I've found many successful people do the same.

I won't be in Blackpool this year, but good luck to everyone who is!

x
Amir

(Will be away for a few days and my not be able to check back. )

Chris

27th-February-2004, 12:43 AM

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
MJ is what WE do this is the number one competition in the UK representing OUR dance not ballroom or OZ style MJ but UK Modern Jive.
Therefore IMHO certain rules are immplied - you are either beginner, intermediate or advanced.

You're not arguing with me. The reference to Australasian and Ballroom is because there the rules in question (about which level to compete at) are written not implied. It is also clear, officially, whether someone is, as you say, "either beginner, intermediate or advanced" but while that might be clear to some people here it's not clear to others - and personally I think it applies at all levels.

Oh and Andy I have an Email that states 'your earnings from teaching at Sarah's ... rules are rules......

Isn't the rules about teachers already covered in the written rules? As far as I remember it is.

The point in question is more that there is no recognised way of determining whether someone is intermediate or advanced. I think it would be better if there was. But in the mean time I personally advocate accepting the system as it is and working within it as your own conscience dictates. Is that so bad? I think not, but it's only one view. I don't mind if you disagree.

I disagree (mildly!!) with the rules as they are but believe they should be accepted as they are until they are changed.

And by the way, nowhere in the Mensa rules does it say I can't talk bo**ocks if I want to! Not that I am of course!! :whistle:

Andy McGregor

27th-February-2004, 02:02 AM

Originally posted by Gus
Can we ONCE and FOR ALL get past this assumption that because you are a teacher you are advanced and if you dont teach you dont have to be.

I've got no issue with someone trying to compete at a higher grade ... I've got a HUGE problem with someone trying to compete at a lower grade ... st*ff the rules, its bad form!

Rant over ... for now

On this occasion Gus has got it completely wrong. There should really be only one dance competition and that should be to find the best couple. Any other division is arbitrary. How does someone know if they're 'too good' for the intermediate? How do they know they're not good enough for the advanced - should they demote themselves to intermediate next year if they get knocked out in the first round of the advanced?

There are ways to get around this but they aren't the ways were using in our current competitions. We'd need some kind of league or ladder and have promotions and demotions like in football. But that would mean competitins much more frequently.

Come on Gus, clearly define what is advanced and what is intermediate? I don't think it can be done.

Andy McGregor

27th-February-2004, 02:29 AM

I agree with Amir, there are no implied rules. There are just rules. If you comply with the rules you qualify. If you don't like the rules complain to the organisers and ask for them to be changed. Once people start creating rules which aren't written down there starts to become a two tiered system where some people comply with the rules made up by LL and Gus whilst others comply with the rules made up by the organisers.

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
Andy - Ceroc 2003 advanced with Nina (finalist I think)

This is wrong. Nina and I got through one round which qualified us for the semi-finals - where we were knocked out.

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
Oh and Andy I have an Email that states 'your earnings from teaching at Sarah's was kindly donated to charity' As C2D are probably on her mailing list does this not put them in an awkward position - I know you are not a teacher but rules are rules......cake & eat it perhaps.

The rule is that if you've been paid to teach in the last 2 years you can't be in the intermediate competition. I haven't been paid to teach. I did this for charity, to aid a young man who's been paralysed from the neck down in an accident. I, quite rightly, told Sarah that I was doing it for free when she offered me a fee. It strikes me that Peter is saying I was wrong to do this and that I should be disqualified from a competition because I helped a young man who is in desparate need? Shame on you, Peter. It is dispicable behaviour for you to thoughtlessly make this association and I think an apology and retraction is required without delay:angry: :angry:

Gus

27th-February-2004, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
On this occasion Gus has got it completely wrong. There should really be only one dance competition and that should be to find the best couple.

Only on this occaision? :grin: Sorry Andy, I dont think I'm completely wrong ... I expressed a view held by some and not others. I think a number of people, including JiveBrummie hold faith with what I've said. If the ultimate aim is to find the BEST .. then I would agree .. but the only competition that stands for that, I think, is the JiveMasters. For the rest of us mere mortals each category is a section to be given our best and there is a real sense in achievement for those that win. OK for some its fun but for others its quite important.

Come on Gus, clearly define what is advanced and what is intermediate? I don't think it can be done.

Well ... I think that anyone invited to JiveMasters must be in that category and I think that if you canvassed the instructors they would put people into the categories of definite Advanced, maybe advanced and not advanced. I'm not arguing about the maybes, I'm arguing about the clear cut cases.

Lounge Lizard

27th-February-2004, 09:26 AM

ANDY I DO NOT THINK YOU WERE WRONG IN TEACHING THE CLASS. I THINK YOU ARE WRONG ENTERING AT INTERMEDIATE LEVEL
I am pointing out that while you are standing behind what the rules 'DONT' say, you have stood on stage as a teacher in return for payment which was donated to charity. Ignoring what the rules DO say.
For someone to enter a major competition with NINA (Ok you were only a semi finalist!!) then class yourself as an intermediate dancers at the next major is wrong IMHO.

What is wrong with being called an advanced dancer - that is what me, Gus and a few others are doing.

Dan Hudson

27th-February-2004, 10:21 AM

Ok , my opinion for what it is worth.

As Gus, LL and a few others say, you are either intermediate or advanced not both, IMHO the category should be picked by how good the lead is, therefore if Andy is and advanced dancer ( i don't know never seen ) then he should be in advanced.

I don't agree that you should enter both and i agree wit hte "unwritten" rule that a win or place in any other MJ comp intermediate section means you now have to step up a level.

For me personally if i ever won an intermediate section ( and believe me I don't think its in the cards!!) I would wantot step up for th new challenge?

Maybe I am wrong:what:

See oyu all at Blackpool:cheers:

Pammy

27th-February-2004, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
What is wrong with being called an advanced dancer - that is what me, Gus and a few others are doing.

I agree with this. If people do not want to categorise themselves fairly then we may as well just have a free for all with one category that encompasses intermediate, advanced and open. To me it seems like some people (and by this I refer to quite a few) would rather hedge their bets and stand a chance at winning a category they are too good to be in than risk getting nothing at all.

What is wrong with coming away with nothing? Surely it's the fun of entering that we should be getting our kicks out of. Winning fairly, entering fairly and giving others the chance to compete and get their feet on the ladder.

Intermediate category is open to anyone. That includes a good dancer who has been progressing well over say only six months. Someone like this will be put off of entering (potentially for life) by the current way things work. Why not give them a fair chance at winning and being recognised. Intermediate is afterall the lowest category anyone can enter.

If I was judging I'm afraid I'd be hard on this. I would only allow people to enter at one level and anyone who I felt was not entering at the highest level they should be, would be disqualified.

At the end of the day it costs a lot of money to travel round the country to all these competitions. You don't go there to win, but I think it is necessary to go thinking you at least have a fair shot at it.

As a true intermediate, I know I will feel nervous standing up there next week next to advanced dancers. I will feel that because I know they are that much better than me. It's a fact, nothing I can do about it, but a fact none-the-less.

I don't normally get involved with dance politics, but I'm afraid this is something that does wind me (and I know others I've spoken to about it) up.

Pamkinite x

ChrisA

27th-February-2004, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
you have stood on stage as a teacher in return for payment which was donated to charity. Ignoring what the rules DO say.

There are two different discussions going on here - one about the letter, and the other about the spirit of the law.

We should keep them separate, IMHO.

Regarding the letter of the law:

If Andy received a payment, and then donated it to charity himself, he was paid and would be ineligible to compete in the Intermediates.

If he did it for free, but the organiser made a charity donation, that is not being paid.

I mean, where would it end? I teach beginners classes all the time as a taxi dancer, in return for which I get free entry into various venues and free drinks when I'm on duty.

Am I being paid? No - not with money. Should I be banned from the Intermediates? I sure hope not... :tears:

Chris

ChrisA

27th-February-2004, 10:54 AM

And now the spirit of the law...

Originally posted by Pammy
As a true intermediate, I know I will feel nervous standing up there next week next to advanced dancers.I agree.

I have very mixed feelings about all of this... Jayne and I started dancing together mid Jan, and have been practising for the Intermediates since then. We are painfully aware of our lack of time together as dancers (there is so much we want to work on but just haven't had the time), and our lack of comps experience in general....

... and I can see the sense in the arguments from those that say that if the rules are being abided by then what's the problem...

... but I have to confess to just a tinge of a sinking feeling when I know that Greg and Kate, and Andy and Holly (whom I don't know), with all their experience and past results, are competing in the same category.

I mean, no hard feelings to any of them - I have loads of respect for them all, but there's some irrational part of me that feels it's slightly unequal somehow...

... whereas James and Mel, for example, having heard all I have about them, and seen them on last year's Blackpool vid (after James had only been dancing 4 months, I understand :worthy: ), will doubtless beat us soundly but to my subjective mind deservedly so.

I dunno. I can't really put a sound logical argument together to justify this position, if such it is, maybe I'll even have a different view after the comp...

But there it is, my 0.00001 p's worth of perspective - a week before my first major MJ comp.

I'm left with only one thought... to try as hard as I can to take Amir's advice...

I've always found it best to focus on what you are doing and not worry about what anyone else is doing or thinking.
We'll just give it our best shot possible, and see how it turns out.

Can't wait.... :clap:

Chris

Stuart M

27th-February-2004, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by ChrisA
I mean, where would it end? I teach beginners classes all the time as a taxi dancer, in return for which I get free entry into various venues and free drinks when I'm on duty.
Oooo...is this going to be implemented up here soon, Franck? :wink:

Ah, hang on - just realised what the drinks might be - maybe not...

Chicklet

27th-February-2004, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by Stuart M
Ah, hang on - just realised what the drinks might be - maybe not...

Un(e??) petit(e???) Ricard pour monsieur????

David Franklin

27th-February-2004, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by ChrisA
I have to confess to just a tinge of a sinking feeling when I know that Greg and Kate, and Andy and Holly (whom I don't know), with all their experience and past results, are competing in the same category.

I mean, no hard feelings to any of them - I have loads of respect for them all, but there's some irrational part of me that feels it's slightly unequal somehow... I have no axe to grind, but from the reactions on this thread and speaking to people at Hipsters, I do think these people have made a mistake. My understanding is that it all started as "a bit of fun", and at that level I don't have a problem with it (though the point someone made about "true intermediates" not getting a place is a valid one). But I think all these dancers are good enough that it's going to be seen as a bit more than "fun". And that there are going to be a lot of hard feelings if either of these couples get to the finals. Basically, the only way they can not be seen as unsporting is if they don't actually get very far in the competition. Which seems a pretty miserable state of events, especially for them.

I'm also not sure how I'd feel if I was entering intermediate, and knew 2 advanced dancers were entering "for fun". Yes on an objective level, I know they can compete and do well in my category on 2 hours practice, but in practice I think I'd find it rather demoralising.

Entering both intermediate and advanced may not be breaking any rules, but as a quote goes, "just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should".

Dave

Gareth

27th-February-2004, 11:33 AM

As a true intermediate, I know I will feel nervous standing up there next week next to advanced dancers. I will feel that because I know they are that much better than me. It's a fact, nothing I can do about it, but a fact none-the-less.

I agree with you Pammy, all us mere beginners ask is for a level playing field and the chance to shorten the great divide between intermediate and Advance.

btw: I just watched the BritRoc video and you looked fab;)

Bill

27th-February-2004, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by Pammy

If I was judging I'm afraid I'd be hard on this. I would only allow people to enter at one level and anyone who I felt was not entering at the highest level they should be, would be disqualified.

Pamkinite x

Think I'd do the same and as I'm not in the Intermediate section I have no axe to grind and nothing against any of the dancers who intend entering both sections.

As Andy says, he's not breaking any rules so maybe the organisers need to look at the rules and change them for next year but for this year there is nothing to stop them but if were a judge I think I'd be tempted to disqualify a couple who were so clearly in the 'wrong' category. But could I do this if they weren't breaking the rules ????

AS for free drinks when on duty...................... must have a word with Franck :D :clap: ................... I can see my taxi-ing ability improve dramatically with a few drinks.......... :whistle:

ChrisA

27th-February-2004, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by Bill
AS for free drinks when on duty...................... must have a word with Franck :D :clap: ................... I can see my taxi-ing ability improve dramatically with a few drinks.......... :whistle:
Oooooh dear, what have I started?

I only drink water when I'm on duty, anyway... :blush:

In fact, my preference when I'm taxiing would be to just bring a big bottle of water in with me and drink that - I have no desire to deprive the venue of revenue.

But the rules are "bar drinks only", as with most venues, so it would look a bit funny if I whipped out my water bottle...

Chris

Pammy

27th-February-2004, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by David Franklin
"a bit of fun"

The question is, what is meant by a "bit of fun" - to me that sounds like an inappropriate way of standing up there mucking around and doing better than those around you without having to try; basically having a laugh at the true intermediates inexperience next to their own.

Is doing that to your mates fun? :what: even at a very basic level is it fun at all :confused: I would feel no fun at all in taking out of the hands of a beginner dancer a trophy that was intended for people who'd been dancing for under six weeks...

I'm going up there to have fun and try my hardest. I'm not going up there as a source of amusement for anyone else that is truely better than me (until I fall over of course :wink: )

Andy McGregor

27th-February-2004, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by Gus
Only on this occasion? :grin: Sorry Andy, I dont think I'm completely wrong ...

Agreed, sorry. How about 'almost entirely':devil:

Originally posted by Gus
If the ultimate aim is to find the BEST .. then I would agree .. but the only competition that stands for that, I think, is the JiveMasters.

I think that the Jive Masters is a show rather than pure dance competition. And it is a good show too. Some of the cast were selected based on their competition performance while others were selected because they were needed a partner and others who should have been selected were not. Maybe they declined the offer. And the judging was by the dancer in the street rather than by experts - that is a whole new debate, but it doesn't happen in Olympic Ice Dance...

IMHO the only categories should be Amateur and Professional and the best people should be chosen from each category. You could also have a 'Novice' section for people who've only been dancing for 2 years or less, oh, and the 'Old Gits' category - which I now qualify for:tears:

Intermediate/Advanced Debate

The problem I have with this is that, by the definition of Gus, we're expected to know if we're intermediate or advanced standard. And, according to Gus, if you win the intermediate you shouldn't be able to enter it again (see N.B. below for my other opinion). The logical conclusion to this argument is that you shouldn't have entered it IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! So you are really competing to disqualify yourself from the category, which can't be right.

N.B. When/if you respond to this, please remember that in the rules I wrote I clearly stated that being placed in and Intermediate competition meant that you couldn't enter it again. But this rule doesn't appear in the Blackpool rules.

p.s. Can I be ODA now?:devil:

ChrisA

27th-February-2004, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I, quite rightly, told Sarah that I was doing it for free when she offered me a fee. It strikes me that Peter is saying I was wrong to do this and that I should be disqualified from a competition because I helped a young man who is in desparate need? Incidentally, while I'm on the subject, whether or not Andy helped a charity is completely irrelevant.

Suppose he had waived half his fee? He would still have been supporting the charity - but would have received a fee nonetheless.

It's the FEE that decides whether or not the rules are being broken, not whether it's in a good cause or not.

Chris

Dance Demon

27th-February-2004, 11:52 AM

I tend to agree with the view that you are either intermediate, or advanced, but not both. If you have considered yourself to be advanced standard, and have competed in that category in the past, then thats where you should dance. Not winning in the past is not an excuse to drop back down to intermediate, especially if you have already been a winner at that level. For those who like to compete, it is surely more of a challenge to keep on improving, to eventually win than to go backwards and admit defeat......

spindr

27th-February-2004, 11:53 AM

I think the only clear categories are to treat events as pro, semi-pro and amateur.

If you've received direct financial payment (cash in the hand) you're a pro (2 points)
If you've received benefit in kind (free entry, drinks) you're semi-pro (1 point)
If you're none of the above you're an amateur (0 points)

[If you need to put a time limit on it -- then two years seems reasonable].

To work out which category "mixed" partners dance in: average both partners' points, and round up.

SpinDr.

P.S. Some people may object to the semi-pro category -- but here in the South / South-East, taxi's can get free entry to all franchise events (sometimes even more than one franchise) -- that can work out to free entry for say four nights a week, which soon adds up.

Andy McGregor

27th-February-2004, 11:53 AM

The best thing for LL to have done here was apologise for his mistake so we can get on with the debate. It is a shame he's continued the argument, but here goes.

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
ANDY I DO NOT THINK YOU WERE WRONG IN TEACHING THE CLASS. I THINK YOU ARE WRONG ENTERING AT INTERMEDIATE LEVEL

There is a clear difinition of what an intermediate dancer is for this competition and I qualify. Last year I entered the intermediate and didn't make the final. I think I will be lucky to get through to the final this year but I hope that I will:waycool:

If I'm wrong for entering any category it is the advanced as I haven't a hope of coming anywhere:tears: That is the category I'm entering for the fun of it.

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
you have stood on stage as a teacher in return for payment which was donated to charity.

This is a complete LIE. I did not teach 'in return for payment'. I thought I'd already said this. LL has twisted what was done to make a personal attack on me.

What I did was taught at a lesson for free where a professional teacher would have been paid. And as a charity was involved I told Sarah that I believed she should donate the fee she would have paid to a professional teacher - if she hadn't she would have profited from people's charity and that would have been wrong. I think Sarah could have chosen her words better when she said what she'd done with the fee she would have paid - but she didn't know that one of her competitors (LL) would decide to use what she said in a attempt to get me disquaified from the intermediate section at Blackpool:tears:

Come on LL, admit that, this once, you've got it wrong:flower:

Pammy

27th-February-2004, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by ChrisA
It's the FEE that decides whether or not the rules are being broken, not whether it's in a good cause or not.

Is it really? Actually, I think anyone who has taught dance can't really be an Intermediate, fee or no fee.

As for Andy's comment about not being advanced, or good enough to come anywhere. Andy, you are putting yourself down mate. You are indeed a good enough dancer to do very well at that level :hug: I enjoy every dance I have with you and you have so many fantastic moves in your repertoire. Don't put yourself down. :kiss:

David Franklin

27th-February-2004, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by Pammy
The question is, what is meant by a "bit of fun" - to me that sounds like an inappropriate way of standing up there mucking around and doing better than those around you without having to try; basically having a laugh at the true intermediates inexperience next to their own.Er no, that's not what I meant, and I'm sorry if it came across that I did :blush: In particular, I don't think any of those couples are planning a laugh at other's expense. I think the main attraction was a competition that didn't have all the stress and tension of practising for the advanced.

But (as I alluded to), I do think it feels totally different if you're competing in intermediate, taking it seriously and practising hard, and you feel other people are not.

Dave

Pammy

27th-February-2004, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by David Franklin
Er no, that's not what I meant, and I'm sorry if it came across that I did :blush: In particular, I don't think any of those couples are planning a laugh at other's expense. I think the main attraction was a competition that didn't have all the stress and tension of practising for the advanced.

But (as I alluded to), I do think it feels totally different if you're competing in intermediate, taking it seriously and practising hard, and you feel other people are not.

Dave

That's exactly what I meant (I think :wink: ). We're taking it all seriously (I'm talking from my perspective and others in the true intermediates bracket), and others are not (or in reality, others can't), but those others are still winning. A sorry state of affairs for us lot :tears:

Very good points you made b.t.w. :cheers:

JamesGeary

27th-February-2004, 12:16 PM

This whole pro/am argument is silly. Professional or not has nothing to do with ability, that I've ever seen.

Some of the best dancers are amateur. And some of the most indept dancers are professional. It's a silly distinction to be making. If you look at the advanced at Blackpool last year, I think there were only 4 amateur couples and they on average outperformed the professional couples significantly.

But if you are going to make the distincition, surely professional has to mean you actively teach once a week or its your sole source of income, not you once taught your aunt the steps and she took you out to dinner for it. Good grief.

I think in the future it should be, if you've ever placed in the finals of any competition anywhere then you have to enter advanced, otherwise you are intermediate. That sounds fairest.

Pammy

27th-February-2004, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by JamesGeary
I think in the future it should be, if you've ever placed in the finals of any competition anywhere then you have to enter advanced, otherwise you are intermediate. That sounds fairest.

So you're saying the same as everyone else in this silly argument :confused: , just using different words that you deem to be more appropriate than those used by others. You're still basically saying the same thing and you're still contributing to the debate. Everyone else is just expressing their opinions as it appeas to them; I don't see them as silly.

Minnie M

27th-February-2004, 12:28 PM

What a real shame that Andy and Greg hadn't picked REAL beginners to enter the Intermediates with :clap:

I remember in 1994 reaching the finals of the "Dance with a Stranger" with Paul James who won the "1993 Le Jive UK Advance Championship" I had only been dancing FOUR months, and I am still talking about it now IT WAS AN AMAZING FEELING

Check me out on the video, if you ever get to see it

Aleks

27th-February-2004, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by Pammy
Actually, I think anyone who has taught dance can't really be an Intermediate, fee or no fee.

I know we're only really talking MJ here, but in ALL dancing professions, you'll probably find that 75% of dance teachers only ever danced to OVERALL intermediate level and then went into teaching, having achieved their personal best - me included.

TheTramp

27th-February-2004, 12:35 PM

Personally, I think that there should be 3 levels at all competitions, and now, Blackpool is the only competition where there aren't 3 levels - all others have an 'Open' category, although, unless the rules change this year, the Scottish Open is run alongside the other two categories, not as a 'top' category.

The decision to enter which category should not depend on whether or not you are a teacher. I've seen plenty of teachers who are intermediate dancers (but yet could be great teachers (or equally awful ones)). And plenty of great dancers who aren't teachers.

To be eligible for the intermediate, I think that the only criteria should be that you haven't previously placed in an intermediate competition at that level (top level is Blackpool and London Ceroc, second level is Scotland Ceroc, Britroc and Bristol). As soon as you have placed, then you are no longer classed as intermediate, and have to enter the Advanced. The only criteria for having to enter the Open, instead of the Advanced is that you have previously placed (again, at the same level) in an Advanced competition. Hence, teachers could in theory enter the intermediate - though, whether they would of course would be a matter of personal choice, and I doubt that any would, since it would probably be damaging to their business.

A teacher is a teacher, whether or not they have been paid for teaching. If you put yourself on stage to teach a class (or teach it from the floor (for all you pedants out there)), then you are a teacher. Whether or not you get paid for doing that, is immaterial. Although, this would not really apply anywhere, since teachers would be eligible for any level of competition anyhow.

This applies to either partner - hence, you cannot enter with a weaker partner, and then go down a level. You get to choose who you enter with, and hence you must enter at the level of the better member of the couple. Based on this, you cannot enter more than one category, since if you are advanced level, then you cannot enter an intermediate category, even if you dance with someone who has only been dancing 2 weeks. Once you have competed at one level, you cannot step back down to a lower level.

That would be my way of running competitions.

Trampy

ChrisA

27th-February-2004, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
That would be my way of running competitions.

Nice one Trampster. Makes sense to me. :cheers:

I hadn't appreciated this "levels" of competitions before either, so thanks for that.

Chris

TheTramp

27th-February-2004, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by ChrisA
Nice one Trampster. Makes sense to me. :cheers:

I hadn't appreciated this "levels" of competitions before either, so thanks for that. Well, certainly up to now, Bristol and Scotland have not had the same range of top dancers that Blackpool and London Ceroc have had entering. Not really sure about Britroc, since I wasn't there, so willing to be challenged on that.

Hence, it seems a little unfair to say that people who have done well at smaller competitions, should suddenly have to compete against the 'big fish', while people who haven't entered the smaller competitions (which tend to be a lot more regional) can still compete at a lower level.

Steve

David Franklin

27th-February-2004, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
Nice post Steve, shame I'm only going to quote the bit I disagree with!

This applies to either partner - hence, you cannot enter with a weaker partner, and then go down a level. You get to choose who you enter with, and hence you must enter at the level of the better member of the couple. Based on this, you cannot enter more than one category, since if you are advanced level, then you cannot enter an intermediate category, even if you dance with someone who has only been dancing 2 weeks. Once you have competed at one level, you cannot step back down to a lower level.Firstly, if I'm understanding you correctly, you *can* be eligable for both intermediate and advanced. (Most people entering advanced have not placed in intermediate). If you are saying entering advanced should make you ineligable for intermediate forevermore, I would have to disagree - if someone is always going out in the 1st round of advanced, it seems cruel not to let them ever go back to intermediate. It seems simpler to prevent people entering two categories in one competition.

Secondly, I'd like to see some flexibility for the case of split level partners. I know of someone who has placed in advanced, and now has a new, inexperienced partner. Looking at them, I think intermediate is probably the appropriate class for them. I think this would be rare enough that a rule allowing people to petition to be in a different class would be managable.

As for "levels of competition" - my impression is that Britroc was nearer the Blackpool/Ceroc standard of competition than the Bristol/Scotland end (I don't know about the level at Scotland). And after the glowing reviews, it will probably be up with Ceroc/Blackpool in future years.

Dave

Andy McGregor

27th-February-2004, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by JamesGeary
I think in the future it should be, if you've ever placed in the finals of any competition anywhere then you have to enter advanced, otherwise you are intermediate. That sounds fairest.

I agree with James. So much so that is pretty much what I wrote in the rules for Britroc. But those are not the rules for Blackpool. The Blackpool organisers were aware on the rules of Britroc and could have copied them if they wanted. They obviously chose not to.

ChrisA

27th-February-2004, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I agree with James. So much so that is pretty much what I wrote in the rules for Britroc. But those are not the rules for Blackpool. The Blackpool organisers were aware on the rules of Britroc and could have copied them if they wanted. They obviously chose not to.
Just as you could have chosen to stick to your own rules, whatever C2D decided :devil: :devil:

Andy McGregor

27th-February-2004, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by ChrisA
Just as you could have chosen to stick to your own rules, whatever C2D decided :devil: :devil:

They are the rules for 2 different competitions. I don't expect the organisers of C2D to turn up applying their rules to the Britroc competition. Why should you expect me to apply the Britroc rules to the C2D comp - even though the judging method used at Britroc is much fairer than that used at C2D:devil:

Pammy

27th-February-2004, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by ChrisA
Just as you could have chosen to stick to your own rules, whatever C2D decided :devil: :devil:

I think that deserve the ODA vote :waycool: :whistle: :worthy:

TheTramp

27th-February-2004, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by David Franklin
Nice post Steve, shame I'm only going to quote the bit I disagree with!Firstly, if I'm understanding you correctly, you *can* be eligable for both intermediate and advanced. (Most people entering advanced have not placed in intermediate). If you are saying entering advanced should make you ineligable for intermediate forevermore, I would have to disagree - if someone is always going out in the 1st round of advanced, it seems cruel not to let them ever go back to intermediate. It seems simpler to prevent people entering two categories in one competition.
You can be eligible to enter both, before you have entered. Once you have entered advanced, then I'd say that you shouldn't be able to go backwards. Most people enter intermediate first, so that wouldn't really penalise them. It's a big step up to decide to do advanced, so you should take it carefully. But I think that once you consider yourself advanced, and hence move up, then I don't see why you should be able to decide that you're not advanced after all. The reasonable thing to do, would be to enter advanced at one of the smaller competitions, which would still enable you to be intermediate at one of the larger competitions if you're not happy with how you did.

Originally posted by David Franklin
Secondly, I'd like to see some flexibility for the case of split level partners. I know of someone who has placed in advanced, and now has a new, inexperienced partner. Looking at them, I think intermediate is probably the appropriate class for them. I think this would be rare enough that a rule allowing people to petition to be in a different class would be managable. I still don't think that this should apply. From what you're saying, someone like James could go dance with someone who is intermediate, and enter the intermediate category, which wouldn't really be acceptable. Everyone has the choice of partner, so you can choose someone who is at a similar level to yourself. If you are choosing a partner because you think that they will progress, and become a similar level, then you don't have to enter until they are, or you can enter, looking upon it as a learning opportunity, and the opportunity to gain experience. If you are entering with a partner who is that inexperienced for any other reason, then you should just consider it as being for fun, and not worry about the result.

Originally posted by David Franklin
As for "levels of competition" - my impression is that Britroc was nearer the Blackpool/Ceroc standard of competition than the Bristol/Scotland end (I don't know about the level at Scotland). And after the glowing reviews, it will probably be up with Ceroc/Blackpool in future years. I did say that I wasn't sure about the Britroc competition. My main reasoning for putting it with Bristol and Scotland rather than the two main ones, is that it did seem to be a lot more regional (and is also a lot smaller in size). There weren't many entries from outside London and the Home Counties. However, of course, most of the better dancers come from that area, hence it may well be reasonable to elevate it to the top level of competition.

Trampy

Gus

27th-February-2004, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by JamesGeary
This whole pro/am argument is silly. Professional or not has nothing to do with ability, that I've ever seen.

Totaly agree. How many TRUE dance professionals are there in MJ ... i.e. those who soley earn their crust from MJ. Two or three at most. To classify you average Ceroc/MJ teacher as advanced is laughable .... SO WHY FORCE THEM TO COMPETE AS ADVANCED? :confused:

TheTramp

27th-February-2004, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
They are the rules for 2 different competitions. I don't expect the organisers of C2D to turn up applying their rules to the Britroc competition. Why should you expect me to apply the Britroc rules to the C2D comp - even though the judging method used at Britroc is much fairer than that used at C2D:devil: I think Andy, that everyone is aware that you and the others are sticking to the rules, explicitly as stated.

Whether or not you are sticking to the spirit of the rules, or possibly more importantly, to the spirit of the competition is another matter.

I guess it depends on whether you all see yourselves as intermediates, who are going into the advanced to see what happens when you stretch yourselves, or whether you see yourselves as advanced, who are lowering yourselves into the intermediates, for whatever reason.

Only you really know that. And at the end of the day, as you've said, it's really up to yourselves. Although it does seem to have become an issue with many people.

Steve

David Franklin

27th-February-2004, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
But I think that once you consider yourself advanced, and hence move up, then I don't see why you should be able to decide that you're not advanced after all.Er, because you made a mistake, or because standards change? Particularly the latter. I think there are several people who belonged in advanced 3 years ago and would be better in intermediate now. I also think it's better to encourage people to move up to advanced as soon as they think they can, rather than wait as long as possible. Your rule would discourage this.

From what you're saying, someone like James could go dance with someone who is intermediate, and enter the intermediate category, which wouldn't really be acceptable. No, I'm not saying that at all; James would have to petition the judges, and convince them it made more sense for him to be in intermediate. (In his case, he'd probably have to say something like "my partner has never danced before, has two broken legs, and is completely deaf" to get the judges to put him in intermediate!)

Everyone has the choice of partner, so you can choose someone who is at a similar level to yourself. In practice, some people enter with their real-life partner, and don't really have the choice you mention. I'm not saying it should be automatic that they can "dance down" - I certainly don't. But I think the judges should be allowed to use their discretion. (And I would hope the judges wouldn't allow the petition of any couple who have a chance of reaching the finals of intermediate).

If you are entering with a partner who is that inexperienced for any other reason, then you should just consider it as being for fun, and not worry about the result.At the end of the day, very few people would enter a competition *knowing* they were not going to get through 1 round, but were going to be clearly "the worst" couple out there. Especially the "weaker" partner, who is probably going to be more insecure about the whole thing.

I guess I'm just sad that the current system, which had a degree of "rely on people to do the 'right' thing", looks like being replaced by something a lot more rigid and inflexible.

In some comps in the US, they've actually started a new competition format, where the partners have to be in different ability divisions. Apparently it's gone down really well...

Dave

TheTramp

27th-February-2004, 02:01 PM

Okie. You've maybe conviced me Dave.

However, I would say that maybe said people would have to, as you say, petition the organisers, and not just assume they could move down. I think that it should be the occasional example, and not the norm though.... ie. there should be a very good reason for wanting to move down.

I think that not being able to compete at a higher level shouldn't necessarily be a reason for moving down. I'm pretty sure that the semi-final is as far as is realistic to aim for at Blackpool, but that's not stopping me entering the advanced. It is a tough question though, I'll agree.

Steve

Gus

27th-February-2004, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
I'm pretty sure that the semi-final is as far as is realistic to aim for at Blackpool, but that's not stopping me entering the advanced. It is a tough question though, I'll agree.

Steve

Arr.... but you've taught therefore you are a teacher therfore you HAVE to be in advanced QED. On what grounds Sir could you dance in a lower category whereas I can't? :devil: :devil: :devil:

David Franklin

27th-February-2004, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
Okie. You've maybe conviced me Dave.Sorry, I'll try not to let it happen again :wink:

However, I would say that maybe said people would have to, as you say, petition the organisers, and not just assume they could move down. I think that it should be the occasional example, and not the norm though.... ie. there should be a very good reason for wanting to move down.Absolutely. I can only think of one definite couple at the minute it would apply to.

I think that not being able to compete at a higher level shouldn't necessarily be a reason for moving down. I'm pretty sure that the semi-final is as far as is realistic to aim for at Blackpool, but that's not stopping me entering the advanced. That's still quite different from being "the couple people laugh at in the 1st round", so to speak. That would seem a good reason to petition to dance at intermediate. [Note I didn't say the triple people laugh at - you've done that already, and very well too I might say!]

Dave

Gadget

27th-February-2004, 02:13 PM

My thoughts on competitions run roughly in line with Tramps:

You can no longer be considered an "Intermediate" dancer if you have won that competition's intermediate category or a competition of equal standing. This is the tricky bit - every competition is different - has a different level of competitor and different dancers competing. It would be up to the organiser to set this, and it would change every year. Not a job I would envy the oraganisers at all.

One method of seperating "Advanced" from "Intermediate" would involve everyone entering into the one big "Open" competition, then having the judges pick from a two track placing round the top X couples (32/16 depending on entry) The competition is then split into "Intermediate" and "Advanecd" with the top half and bottom half dancing off for places.

Another would to be to introduce "league tables" for every competitor and every event: each event gets X points to award to their competitors based on number of entrants. Top placed couples get awarded most points, etc. In this way you could see who was going to more competitions, who scores highest, etceteras. A lot of work to maintain the database and would probably involve a governing body to the MJ world.

Personally I think that the teacher at your local venue should approve an application to a competition at a particular level. Thoughts?

{BTW I would say that I'm about the middle of the "intermediate" category - and if competing, that's where I would place myself. But I'm not... :sad:}

Andy McGregor

27th-February-2004, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
I think that not being able to compete at a higher level shouldn't necessarily be a reason for moving down. I'm pretty sure that the semi-final is as far as is realistic to aim for at Blackpool, but that's not stopping me entering the advanced. It is a tough question though, I'll agree.

Steve

I'll be delighted if I get to the advanced semi-final:waycool:

..especially if that means I've got further than my competition nemesis, Mr Sheepman:devil: :wink:

p.s. I'll also be chuffed to get through to the semi-final in the intermediate - if LL has his way I'll be lucky to make it into the first round:tears:

p.p.s. Does anyone else believe it would be fair to eliminate me and Hollie because I taught one lesson for free in aid of a charity for a guy who's paralysed from the waist down? Well that is what LL is suggesting and I think it stinks:angry:

I've given LL a chance to apologise/withdraw and he's not done so, just defended his indefensible argument, any suggestions about what I should do next?

Gus

27th-February-2004, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
p.p.s. Does anyone else believe it would be fair to eliminate me and Hollie because I taught one lesson for free in aid of a charity for a guy who's paralysed from the waist down? Well that is what LL is suggesting and I think it stinks:angry:

I may be wrong (wouldn’t be the first) but I got the impression that LL was considering that you should compete in the Advanced because you were an advanced dancer. Given your experience and some of your dancing performances I think I can understand that view ... BUT I'm not saying that you should. If you feel that you are intermediate .... well that’s your view.

The point about whether you have taught or not is down to the interpretation of the rules. The rules are really based on the fact that if anyone is good enough to teach then they should compete in the advanced. Whether that is fair or not (and I don’t believe they are fair) that’s the rules. Best way forward would be to consult with C2D management ... at the end of the day theirs is the only decision that counts.

Jayne

27th-February-2004, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I've given LL a chance to apologise/withdraw and he's not done so, just defended his indefensible argument, any suggestions about what I should do next?
With due respect LL hasn't been on line since 8.26 this morning. Please give the guy a chance to respond first.

p.p.s. Does anyone else believe it would be fair to eliminate me and Hollie because I taught one lesson for free in aid of a charity for a guy who's paralysed from the waist down? Well that is what LL is suggesting and I think it stinks:angry:

[ODA mode on] does this sound like emotional blackmail to anyone else?[ODA mode off]

Sorry Andy but I think your chances of getting a fair hearing are decreased if you continue along this train of thought. Try re-phrasing it.

J :nice:

ChrisA

27th-February-2004, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
p.p.s. Does anyone else believe it would be fair to eliminate me and Hollie because I taught one lesson for free in aid of a charity for a guy who's paralysed from the waist down? Well that is what LL is suggesting and I think it stinks:angry:

I've given LL a chance to apologise/withdraw and he's not done so, just defended his indefensible argument, any suggestions about what I should do next?
Oh wind your neck in, Andy, for heavens sake.

The charity point is a red herring so stop going on about it.

If you did it for free then there's no issue; if you received a payment (even if you then donated it to charity) then there is.

That's a LETTER of the law issue.

Whether you and Holly should compete in the Intermediates with all your combined results and experience is quite separate, so stop mixing them up.

Chris

TheTramp

27th-February-2004, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by Gus
Arr.... but you've taught therefore you are a teacher therfore you HAVE to be in advanced QED. On what grounds Sir could you dance in a lower category whereas I can't? :devil: :devil: :devil: I wasn't saying I would. I was making the point that I didn't expect to win, and therefore, from what David was saying, I might decide to step down a level to give myself more chance (this is a general comment, not just relating to me, although I did use myself as an example). You'll note from my previous post, which David was commenting on; that I don't think that this should be allowed in any case.

Please read everything before you take something out of context :wink:

Steve

Gus

27th-February-2004, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp

Please read everything before you take something out of context :wink:

Steve

Why start now:confused:

Just giving you a further opportuntity to re-inforce a point dear boy!

TheTramp

27th-February-2004, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by Gadget
Personally I think that the teacher at your local venue should approve an application to a competition at a particular level. Thoughts?Not sure that this is a reasonable judge of level.

Each teacher might have different views about what is advanced, and what is intermediate. At one class, where the standard is high, you may well be 'advanced' dancers, and thus your teacher may insist you go into the advanced. At another class, the same people may well me only mid-level intermediate, and thus the teacher there would quite happily sign them into the intermediate section.

Trampy

TheTramp

27th-February-2004, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by Gus
Why start now:confused: Good point!! :yum:

Trampy

Gareth

27th-February-2004, 02:47 PM

Andy,
Whether you were paid or not, as has been discussed here, is a grey area. If the judges decide to disqualify you on this, is upto them. It maybe better to save embarassment at a later date and seek clarification.

I don`t know your competition results, but as far as I`m concerned, if either you or your partner have been placed in an intermediate final or a higher level final. Then you should really be dancing advanced, whether this is stated in the rules or not. I personally would not be happy to see you win a finals place if you fall into these categories.

Intermediates is the category which encourages dancers into the competitive arena.

Gareth

Pammy

27th-February-2004, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
p.p.s. Does anyone else believe it would be fair to eliminate me and Hollie because I taught one lesson for free in aid of a charity for a guy who's paralysed from the waist down? Well that is what LL is suggesting and I think it stinks:angry:

LL words are being twisted almost to the extent that you're now suggesting he had something against the person with the disability, or indeed you supporting charities in general. I think you perhaps owe him an apology for taking his words completely out of context rather than demanding one for yourself; sorry Andy - I love you, but sometimes you do take issues too far - read LLs post again :hug:.

Now, my one brain cell has boiled over, so I'm off back to the hollow tree before someone gives me a black eye :blush:

Love you all and see you in the competition and may the best erm, dancer win :rofl:

Andy McGregor

27th-February-2004, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by Jayne
With due respect LL hasn't been on line since 8.26 this morning. Please give the guy a chance to respond first.

Thank you Jayne. You are right that LL should be given a chance to respond. The problem is that he has has a chance to respond. I posted my request to LL last night. He responded this morning when he was on line. He disagreed with me. All I'm doing is sticking to my guns.

Originally posted by ChrisA
If you did it for free then there's no issue; if you received a payment (even if you then donated it to charity) then there is.

That's a LETTER of the law issue.

I agree with Chris A. Here is the law/rule;

Intermediate Section: This section is not open to teachers of professionals.

General Rule 10: Definition of a Teacher - Anyone who teaches/or has taught in the last 2 years, with payment, any form of jive oriented dance.

I did it for free, I wasn't paid. Therefore I think I qualify as an intermediate according to the rules.

Originally posted by ChrisA
Whether you and Holly should compete in the Intermediates with all your combined results and experience is quite separate, so stop mixing them up.

Chris

I agree with ChrisA here too. I've been trying quite hard not to mix these 2 arguments up. I've thought I'd been defending myself against LL's personal attack in some postings and debating the categories with Gus and Co in others. Sorry if I got them mixed up a bit:blush:

Please note. I truly believe I'm an intermediate dancer. I'm not, and never will be, up there with the likes of Nigel, Viktor, Amir, James Geary, Clayton, Graham, DavidB, The Tramp, Ash, Ben, Franck, Mick, James, Elliott, etc. I am very flattered that so many of my friends think I should compete at this level, but I just don't cut it:tears::tears:

Gus

27th-February-2004, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I'm not, and never will be, up there with the likes of Nigel, Viktor, Amir, James Geary, Clayton, DavidB,

Neither will I .... but I'm still an Advanced dancer! What do you do ... bring in a Super-Advanced category?

Gareth

27th-February-2004, 03:30 PM

Andy.

Were you a finalist advanced in Ceroc 2003 with Nina?
Was Holly a Ceroc 2003 Advanced finalist + Jivemasters finalist?

If the answer to either of these is yes then you are both ADVANCED dancers.

Andy McGregor

27th-February-2004, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by Gus
Neither will I .... but I'm still an Advanced dancer! What do you do ... bring in a Super-Advanced category?

You could call it the 'Open' category:wink:

The Open could be the one with the big prizes to attract the best of the best of the best.

Then there could be an Advanced with modest prizes for dancers like Gus and me. To ensure that there was no crossover there would need to be a rule that you couln't enter both advanced and Open categories.

The intermediate could then be for the non-teachers. But I like the idea that people could enter the Intermediate and the Advanced as how far they progressed in each category would help them work out their level.

I would also introduce a 'Novice' level for people who'd been dancing for less than 1 year just to get people interested in competitions when they've only been dancing a while.

Gus

27th-February-2004, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by Gareth

Was Holly a Ceroc 2003 Advanced finalist + Jivemasters finalist?

Is this the same Holly who competed with Ben at Jivemasters? If so ... how can she be anything other than advanced?? I know teachers who would kill to be as good as she.:)

Andy McGregor

27th-February-2004, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by Gareth
Andy.

Were you a finalist advanced in Ceroc 2003 with Nina?

No, Nina and I got through one round and were knocked out in the semi-final. Nina was surprised we'd got that far - I was surprised she said 'yes' when I asked her to be my partner...

As I said earlier, if I can only make it to the semi-final with Nina that is as far as I'll ever get as, in my opinion, she's the best female dancer on the MJ scene.

Originally posted by Gareth
Was Holly a Ceroc 2003 Advanced finalist + Jivemasters finalist?

Hollie was finalist in both of these comps but she still quaifies as an 'intermediate' dancer according to the rules of the comp. Hollie asked me if I'd do the competition with her and I could hardly refuse. I would have entered the Advanced with Hollie but I was already doing that with Kate so I entered the intermediate. Hollie and Kate are both great dancers and young and pretty too. I feel quite honoured that they're dancing with me:flower: :flower: :flower:

Wait 'til you see me dance. You'll see that I'm an intermediate through and through.

Jayne

27th-February-2004, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I would have entered the Advanced with Hollie but I was already doing that with Kate so I entered the intermediate.

Wait 'til you see me dance. You'll see that I'm an intermediate through and through.
[pedant mode on] if you're an intermediate, why did you choose to enter the advanced with your first partner, Kate. SUrely if you're an intermediate you would enter that category first?[pedant mode off]

J :nice:

Bill

27th-February-2004, 03:50 PM

[i]
Please note. I truly believe I'm an intermediate dancer. I'm not, and never will be, up there with the likes of Nigel, Viktor, Amir, James Geary, Clayton, Graham, DavidB, The Tramp, Ash, Ben, Franck, Mick, James, Elliott, etc. I am very flattered that so many of my friends think I should compete at this level, but I just don't cut it:tears::tears: [/B]

Andy......there are dozens, possibly hundreds of dancers who feel as you do. I think many dancers end up dancing in the Advanced because either they teach ( I don't) or because there is some kind of 'pressure' to go into that section.

If you genuinely feel you're an Intermediate then why enter both? I've never met you although we've competed against each other and most folk here talk very positively about you but I think your decision is a poor one.

The debate about payment and teaching opens up the whole debate again and it doesn't help that different comps seem to have different rules. I'm not sure where the 2 year rule comes from but certianly in Scotland the rule appears to be 'professionally trained' as opposed to being a teacher or being paid.

Keith

27th-February-2004, 03:51 PM

Hi Guys,
Keith here from C2D. I’ve not read all the comments, but my god you’ve been busy!!!
Company policy: As in the application form & rules.
So yes people are allowed to enter both categories, if they wish. I believe initially when these rules were implemented it was meant for people who were border line & unsure of their abilities, ie, ‘Should I push myself & go in advanced or should I have one last go at the Intermediates’.
We see personal growth & sometimes within this growth we see people who wish to push the boundaries & it appears that this is what we are seeing here.
We as organisers love fair play! A title to a category should give a clue to people wishing to participate fairly, ie Advanced, Hmm I wonder what that means? We introduced the teacher rule, because if I was taught to dance by my teacher & then came up against them in a competition, I would not think it just. We also have a similar rule, for those who are paid for cabaret performances.
Teachers are not always the best or most flamboyant dancers, but they have the ability & knowledge of moves, which must put them in the advanced category?
We as a company understand that as people start to stretch the rules, we will have to start tightening them, in the interest of fairness.
Our rules are already set this year, but we will obviously look into this for next year.

Below is my personal slant on this & should in no way be construed as Chance 2 Dances, I just thought I’d put my 2’penneth worth in;
I personally feel that dancers who know they are not of an intermediate standard, who have entered Advanced categories in the past, or are considering entering both in the same competition, should have enough personal conviction, to know whether they are of intermediate standard or not, no matter what standard their partner may be.
It sounds as though people are entering the Intermediate section, because they don’t think they can WIN the Advanced section, nothing to do with being of Intermediate or Advanced standard, I think some of us need to step back from all this and assess why we are entering what we are entering. We have a lot of dancers who look forward to getting through to the second round, or even experiencing the first round. I’m not getting this vibe from some of the forum members?
The title of the category should give them a clue; it is not to allow them to bring a lesser dancer to title hood! They can help dancers improve in the classes, but not during a competition!
I would find it embarrassing if I thought of myself as an advanced dancer, but entered an intermediate section, especially if I was to get into a final & even worse, got placed. How could you go & collect a prize, in front of all those people, knowing that none of them thought you should be there?
It’s a little like the college shot-putter being put in the same group as the twelve year olds, at a school sports day! Very embarrassing when you go to collect your trophy & even more so if you don’t get one! :blush:
Keith

Gareth

27th-February-2004, 03:55 PM

Hollie was finalist in both of these comps

I`m sorry Andy, there may not be a stipulation in the rules, but as far as I`m concerned Holly is a Advanced dancer and as such should dance in the Advanced Competition.

With this in mind, IMHO if you were to take a finals place then I and a lot of others would be very p**ssed off. Holly is depriving a true intermediate dancer from a finalist place.

So do the right thing and save yourself the grief. Be satisfied with your Advanced entry.

Thank you Keith for clarifying this heated debate. I hope this will put to rest this difference in oppinion. I hope to see you very soon.

Gareth

Sheepman

27th-February-2004, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by Gus
What do you do ... bring in a Super-Advanced category? Isn't it more often called the "Open"

Interesting debate, it's a shame it wasn't this heated months ago when it was last discussed.

Let's face it, Advanced at Blackpool is equivalent to Britroc and Ceroc "Open" categories, apart from slight differences regarding air steps. Now look at the winners, and people placed there, Clayton & Janine, Will & Kate, Tas & Adam, Lily & Amir, Simon Rich (dance teacher) and Christine. Sorry, I don't remember the others. Now I'm flattered that LL and others of you think I'm Advanced, experienced (in years :tears: yes) but no way am I in the same category as those people that I consider worthy competitors in an "open" as well as many others that would get beaten by that lot.

So if I get through one round of the Advanced at Blackpool, either we'll have danced our socks off, or the standard won't be up to that at Ceroc, or Britroc, or Bristol.

There is this "spirit" of the rules thing, which I do largely agree with, again it is a matter of degree and perception, which is why it should be in black and white, how do you define "Advanced". OK Mary and I have done one Advanced category, at Bristol, and got knocked out first round, we knew there was "no going back". Does that mean I shouldn't do Intermediate, which I have been placed in before, with another partner? Am I right in thinking Della and Elliot won 3 intermediate competitions, well done to them, they deserved it.
As far as I know, Kate has done one competition before, which was the open at Britroc, she was asked to do it the night beforehand, and as her partner was a teacher, there was no option as to which category to enter. We have been dancing together about a week longer than ChrisA and Jayne, (apart from the occasional delightful dances about once a month since last summer) since we started in January the gaps between dancing have been far too long, OK, if we'd been working at it regularly for months, we would consider ourselves worthy of Advanced, but not yet, if ever. :tears: She is such a fun dancer to dance with, that the opportunity to dance with her was too good to miss, and we're not quite :wink: eligible for the seniors yet!
If Kate & I entering the Intermediate section means the rules change in future years, then I'm only disappointed that it has to take people's disapproval for this to happen, rather than it already having occurred due to reasoned argument. I have said long ago that the Blackpool categories should reflect those at Ceroc & Britroc. Some people have to compete for their teaching "careers" and reputation, I have to do it for fun, and to try and improve my dancing. In the extremely unlikely event that we walk off with any prize money, I shan't be keeping it, as that's not what I'm there for.

So much more I'd like to say, but this is getting too tedious. Just some points from a few quotes:-

Originally quoted by Chris
The point in question is more that there is no recognised way of determining whether someone is intermediate or advanced. I think it would be better if there was. But in the mean time I personally advocate accepting the system as it is and working within it as your own conscience dictates. Is that so bad? I think not, but it's only one view. I don't mind if you disagree.:yeah:

Originally posted by Dan Hudson
As Gus, LL and a few others say, you are either intermediate or advanced not both, IMHO the category should be picked by how good the lead is I can't agree with this at all, and feel it is quite insulting to the followers, it is a partnership after all, I can think of many partners where James would have got nowhere last year. (No disrepespect to you James!:really: )

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
The problem I have with this is that, by the definition of Gus, we're expected to know if we're intermediate or advanced standard. And, according to Gus, if you win the intermediate you shouldn't be able to enter it again (see N.B. below for my other opinion). The logical conclusion to this argument is that you shouldn't have entered it IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! So you are really competing to disqualify yourself from the category, which can't be right. Exactly that! I'm expecting everyone to be happy when we don't win!!!

Greg

PS Jayne to answer on Kate's behalf your question, as Kate has far too much work on to get involved in the debate, (and too much work even for much dancing lately :tears: ) it was the Intermediate that came first, Andy "persuaded" her that it would be double the fun to also go into the Advanced afterwards.

Pammy

27th-February-2004, 04:15 PM

Holly was in the Jive Masters final. Greg was placed in the advanced section of Britroc and both the Intermediates at Blackpool & Ceroc champs last year. Kate danced with Ben in the open at Britroc and Andy, well, everyone knows Andy's achievements :grin: You're all fabulous dancers, with a lot to be proud of :cheers: . I'm not singling you four out, you are just a small handful of those concerned, but a fair example.

I believe that you should only be entering the advanced section and not the intermediate and I think Keith's comments about how you'd feel collecting your prizes should you win and Gareths comments about how others would see you should you be placed are important issues you should be considering.

Everyone puts so much effort into practicing and preparing for the competition - it's not just what happens on the day itself. The costumes take months to prepare and sew :tears: sequins being stuck on :tears: :tears: :tears:, needles pricking thumbs; I currently have a left thumb like leather :blush: and it's a shame to put so much effort and time into something that you feel is a bit of a non-starter (which is how a lot of us feel about the whole thing at the moment). I know Hills & I are resigned to thinking of next weekend as an expensive break away rather than actually thinking of it as entering a competition as we really don't feel it's fair enough at the moment to be classed as *competition*...

Andy, I'm sure if you'd alredy got a partner for the advanced section, and thus was unable to compete in that round with Holly, that there are plenty of other men out there who would have been more than happy to oblige partnering her in the advanced section...

Thanks for replying Keith - hope next years rules are more clear cut :yeah:

Katie

27th-February-2004, 04:18 PM

Hello Guys,

Reading everyone's points of view has made me feel very nervous indeed about entering Blackpool. Knowing that eveyone has pre-judged our dancing before we have even got onto the floor....

I do think it is up to the organisers to stipulate who can and cannot enter different categories. In the rules it states that you can enter as many sections as you wish - energy permitting!

I am doing the advanced with Andy but it is only for fun, we have hardly practiced and we have talked more about outfits than anything else! As i live in London and Andy lives on the south coast, social dancing is a rarity too. Therefore we do not really have a hope in getting any where. Admittedly i was weary about entering advanced because i had already agreed to do intermediates with Greg and i knew that others would dissaprove. But, as it was just for fun i agreed. We are definitely not in it to win!!

If on the other hand, Blackpool had an open section, then Andy and I would still enter the advanced. I have seen other people at Britroc who have entered intermediate with one partner and advanced with another. I have even seen the same couple enter intermediate and advanced!! The point is, that I am entering with two different dancers, with two very different expectations; with Andy i know that we won't make the finals because we have not practiced and with Greg i hope we do because we have. If, on the other hand i had practiced hard with both, then this is questionable.

I have only entered one competition, which was Britroc with Ben in the open. I was very nervous about being there with the top dancers and would have happily preferred to enter the advanced but could not because Ben is a teacher. We entered at the last minute ( anyone that knows Ben, will know that this is typical of him) with not much to offer apart from spontaneous freestyle or anything that we had practiced on the day. Agreeing to the comp with Ben was purely because we are good friends. We were not placed in the top three, so surely i am still eligible for intermediates??

According to the rules, i am not an advanced dancer, i have not taught and i have never been placed.

At the end of the day, i am entering for fun.

Kate

Bill

27th-February-2004, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by Pammy
Everyone puts so much effort into practicing and preparing for the competition - it's not just what happens on the day itself. The costumes take months to prepare and sew :tears: sequins being stuck on :tears: :tears: :tears:, needles pricking thumbs;

Pammy................ I think enough folk have posted on their troubles and lack of practice so indicate that unfortunately a great many competitors don't spend that much time preparing.

Fran has been making our costumes this week and I bought some material for her today to do her own. Just as well it doesn't involve sequins :D :na:

But to succeed it's clear that time, effort and real commitment are needed for a couple to do well.

Can't wait to see your outfit then :wink:

Pammy

27th-February-2004, 04:34 PM

Katie; so, as you put it "with not much to offer apart from spontaneous freestyle or anything that we had practiced on the day. Agreeing to the comp with Ben was purely because we are good friends." - not bad then managing to get a fourth in the open - well done!

and Greg, getting placed in the advanced, not with his regular partner, but someone he'd had little time to practice with again.

That's great, but surely that says to me, a reasonable amount of skill as dancers on both yours parts? Going a long way with little practice for both of you - and now, you've both practiced a lot together for next weekend, well, it's not really intermediate standard then is it? :confused:

As for being nervous up there; we're all prone to that :grin:

I shake like a leaf and poor Tony has to try not only to remember what he's doing, but to stop me looking like a living jelly :rofl: Actually, my outfit that I'm making has tassles on it, and I think I might end up looking more like an old curtain than anything else :rofl: - no, don't laugh :blush: ... ... I said don't :tears: ... ... ok go on then :whistle:

Gadget

27th-February-2004, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
Not sure that this {teacher signing off a competitor} is a reasonable judge of level.

I would presume that the teachers knew of the competition and the expected level of dancers competing at it. If not, they are in more of a position to find out than most (with the exception of us forumites).
I see your point about different ability levels being relative, however this is why I thought that you would have to be "signed off" for each competition you wanted to enter. If the teacher has not been to a specific competition themselves, they will probably be able to get someon'e opinion who has been there and make an informed descision.

If the competitor is deemed to be competing above/below their level, then it could be discussed in a friendly manor - better this from a 'known' teacher than from an 'unknown' organiser who disqualifies you, or a judge who ignores you.

Sheepman

27th-February-2004, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by Pammy
Greg was placed in the advanced section of Britroc Correction, I got to the finals, with a partner who also came 3rd with her partner in the open. But this level of competition was not at all the same as Advanced at Blackpool.

I'm so chuffed at so many people implying how fab my dancing is, I just wish I thought so :tears:

And Kate, what are you doing here, back to work immediately!!

Greg

Pammy

27th-February-2004, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by Sheepman
Correction, I got to the finals, with a partner who also came 3rd with her partner in the open. But this level of competition was not at all the same as Advanced at Blackpool.

Advanced Freestyle
1, Jane & Ray Godman
2, Nicola Chappell & Howard Temple
3, Michaela Frimlova & Siu Fai Yuen
4, Carol Osborne & Phillip Webb
5, Claire Tickner & Neil Smither
6, Christine Chen & Greg Davidson

6th - ok, not placed 1, 2 or 3, but still up there - I would consider myself "placed" to have achieved a 6th.

Yes, you are an amazing dancer :hug:.

Bill

27th-February-2004, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by Sheepman

Let's face it, Advanced at Blackpool is equivalent to Britroc and Ceroc "Open" categories, apart from slight differences regarding air steps. Now look at the winners, and people placed there, Clayton & Janine, Will & Kate, Tas & Adam, Lily & Amir, Simon Rich (dance teacher) and Christine.
So if I get through one round of the Advanced at Blackpool, either we'll have danced our socks off, or the standard won't be up to that at Ceroc, or Britroc, or Bristol.

I think one of the problems is the profile of the dancers involved. If it were Fran and I or any other couple from Scotland with a much lower national profile I don't think many people would have been bothered.

We've entered 3 advanced comps in England and two in Scotland. We came second in Scotland ( but a very small number of entrants) and think we got through to the second round at London once. We have no chance of competing against the likes of Amir, Lily, C&J, et al but the Open in London has allowed more room for people to move up from the Intermediate.

Perhaps Keith, Tony and the gang need to look at the categories and go the same way. If, as is likely, Fran and I fail to get through a round should we then enter the Intermediate heats next year ??

I empathise with your dilema Greg but personally I still think dancer should decide between the two.

Katie

27th-February-2004, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by Pammy

That's great, but surely that says to me, a reasonable amount of skill as dancers on both yours parts? Going a long way with little practice for both of you - and now, you've both practiced a lot together for next weekend, well, it's not really intermediate standard then is it? :confused:

I decided i was definitely going to Blackpool to watch this year as i have never been. After doing Britroc with Ben, i got the taste for competitions and hoped that Ben would ask me to do Blackpool with him again.....but he didn't :tears: So, what is a girl to do?

I wanted to compete, but as i'm not very experienced at competitions, i didn't know who to ask. Greg is my friend and although i knew he was competing with Mary, i asked him to do intermediates because the rules said you could. Therefore, the option of doing the advanced was not available. So, do you suggest i do not compete at all then? It is all very well saying i should have found someone else, but why should I? I enjoy dancing with Greg, so why not?

Sheepman

27th-February-2004, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by Bill
I empathise with your dilema Greg but personally I still think dancer should decide between the two. Well it's too late for this one, but I can guarantee :confused: it won't happen again!

Greg

Pammy

27th-February-2004, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by Katie
so why not?

Hasn't this thread covered the reasons why? :confused: :wink:

Mary

27th-February-2004, 05:01 PM

OK, being somehow tangled up in this debate as well I thought I would put my view forward. Firstly I do not have a problem with the Andy teaching on one occasion issue. It's not as if he were a regular and recognised teacher, and, as many of us know you don't have to be a great dancer to be a great teacher and vice versa.

I do, however, struggle with the personal ethics of double entering. Greg & I have been placed in Intemediate at 2 comps last year. It would be great to have a shot at winning first prize. However I would like to think that both of us have improved and gained more experience since then, and I personally feel that we are somewhere between 'advanced' and 'intermediate'. So I persuaded Greg that we should have a go at advanced for Bristol last year, and then at Britroc (which I had to duck out of at the last minute). Having already entered (in theory) for advanced twice it seemed reasonable to give Blackpool advanced a shot. Now if Greg feels he is at the same personal level as I do then I think it reasonable that he has a shot at intermediate - he couldn't enter intermediate with me as we had already entered advanced. Kate is not a veteran of the competition circuit so, although a fantastic dancer, if she feels she is intermediate then that is what she should have a shot at.

In the past people have put themselves up for an advanced category and found that perhaps they should have entered intermediate, so drop down for the next competition. Nothing wrong with that IMO. It's not unusual to over-estimate one's abilities! I am struggling with the Andy and Holly issue though. Although not breaking the rules, both Holly and Andy are not new to the competition circuit, and their decision does sit uncomfortably with me, and it becomes very demoralizing for those very good intermediate dancers who should do well. Tony & Pammy have done a lot of hard work and they look great together, but I can imagine are a bit depressed to know they are up against the likes of Holly - now considered by many as one of the dance goddesses - being partnered by another 'experienced' competition entrant, even if he assesses himself as an intermediate. Sorry Andy, I love you to bits and all that, but I can see why a lot of people will feel disillusioned.

There is an instance where an advanced lady is partnering an intermediate in the intermediate section which I don't have a problem with, because the guy has never done a competition before and has been dancing less than a year and is keen to compete with his girlfriend. As it is the man's job to make the lady look good then his ability will be judged accordingly. Incidentally, the lady in question was worried about the ethics/morality of doing this because she didn't want to upset or offend anyone, and was persuaded it would be OK.

Havin said all that I am still looking forward to the whole event and hope everyone has a great time.

M

Stuart M

27th-February-2004, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by Keith
... I think some of us need to step back from all this and assess why we are entering what we are entering. We have a lot of dancers who look forward to getting through to the second round, or even experiencing the first round. I’m not getting this vibe from some of the forum members?

It's very much my personal vibe. As I said earlier my reason for entering, was the realisation that I can no longer really improve just by doing classes and workshops. I feel I need a target, like doing myself justice in a competition, to give me a desire to improve. I have no ambitions in this competition beyond doing my dance partner justice, as she's a fab dancer IMHO.

I have no major axe to grind concerning dancers who are "Advanced" entering Intermediate, in terms of results. A dancer who's clearly "too good" for the category will get the respect they deserve. I do believe, however, they shouldn't be allowed to enter both Intermediate and Advanced at the same comp, if they are taking entry places away from improvers like me (selfish git that I am :D ).

Sheepman

27th-February-2004, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by Pammy
Hasn't this thread covered the reasons why? :confused: :wink: And also the reasons why, if I'd had any idea that everyone considered my dancing had reached such a high level I might have thought it over more, so maybe this thing is more a matter of perception, I've seen me in videos, and frankly, it's usually embarrassing!

Greg

Boomer

27th-February-2004, 05:06 PM

Been reading up on this thread…can someone confirm something. Is someone, in all honesty, trying to claim that there is a reasonable argument for those named (none of whom I have an issue with, you’re all lovely) to enter into intermediate? coughcoughBULLSH*Tcoughcough. I couldn’t care less if these people were entering with a one-legged dwarf in a neck-brace, they are not intermediate!

Someone said that the difference between ‘Advanced’ and ‘Intermediate’ is a large one. Is this gulf further compounded by placing in ‘Advanced’? Seems like a logical train of thought to me - Advanced is much more difficult than Intermediate, I placed in Advanced, therefore I achieved a moderate level of success in something significantly more challenging that Intermediate. What the hell are you doing downgrading!?! You do not belong in Intermediate, you have no place in Intermediate. If you want to ‘have a laugh’, do it in your own part of the playground, give someone else the chance damnit.

What else is heard? We are not as good as them. So what – that may be the case, but do you honestly think that you are on the same level of ChrisA, Pammy…me (should I ever decide to compete, and no offense meant to yous)? Like hell. You have all placed in the ‘Advanced’ category. As such, the ‘we thought we would try advanced, but it was too difficult so we went back to Intermediate’ line of excuse does not bloody count.

I have no doubt that those mentioned will go ahead with the Intermediate category so well done, it must have been a challenge, glad you did well against a bunch of newbies with up to 18-24 months experience.

TheTramp

27th-February-2004, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by Sheepman
And also the reasons why, if I'd had any idea that everyone considered my dancing had reached such a high level I might have thought it over more, so maybe this thing is more a matter of perception, I've seen me in videos, and frankly, it's usually embarrassing! I think that you do yourself an injustice Greg.

Trampy

Katie

27th-February-2004, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by Stuart M
I do believe, however, they shouldn't be allowed to enter both Intermediate and Advanced at the same comp, if they are taking entry places away from improvers like me (selfish git that I am :D ).

It is up to the organiser to decide this. If the rules encourage you to enter as many sections(which they do) as you wish then so be it. If, however the organisers said that you could only enter another category provided there are spaces (taken into account all those who want to enter) then i would have no problem with this either.

Kate

Katie

27th-February-2004, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by Boomer

Someone said that the difference between ‘Advanced’ and ‘Intermediate’ is a large one. Is this gulf further compounded by placing in ‘Advanced’? Seems like a logical train of thought to me - Advanced is much more difficult than Intermediate, I placed in Advanced, therefore I achieved a moderate level of success in something significantly more challenging that Intermediate. What the hell are you doing downgrading!?! You do not belong in Intermediate, you have no place in Intermediate. If you want to ‘have a laugh’, do it in your own part of the playground, give someone else the chance damnit.

If you had been reading the thread more carefully, the dilemma about intermediate and advanced is further excarbated by Blackpool not having an open section. If they did, then those who are in between levels would be able to participate in the advanced, without competing with the best!!

Gus

27th-February-2004, 05:22 PM

OK Guys ... think the debate is getting a little heated!:tears:

Just a little tale to put this in context.

Blackpool 2001 Intermediate - couple from my club competing for the first time (Pistol Pete and Kay). Nervous but enjoying it ... till out walks onto the INTERMEDIATE floor but Marc and Pocket Rocket. Marc already had a fair rep, Rocket even more so and she had been accepted to do CTA training. I was an instructor at the time but wouldn't had given myself a chance in hell against either Marc or Rocket. On the face of it a forgone conlusion .... NAHHH. Pete and Kay won the competition and won it well. SO ... it doesn't really matter what the form book says ... its all down to your performance on the day and those 2 tracks in front of the judges:waycool:

Bill

27th-February-2004, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by Gus
OK Guys ... think the debate is getting a little heated!:tears:

its all down to your performance on the day and those 2 tracks in front of the judges:waycool:

Oi....................... who said you could take on the role of peacemaker. It was just getting interesting :na: ..... Hope we're in the same round..........think I'll wear spikes and dance near you. Or maybe orange trousers :D

Is it too late to enter the Intermediates ?????????????????

spindr

27th-February-2004, 05:38 PM

To quote from the Partridge Family Movie (gosh never, ever thought I say that) "I think someone needs a hug!"

I hope everyone enjoys Blackpool and gets what they deserve :) Remember at the very least you can walk out onto that dance floor like the greatest dancer in the world (at least until the music starts).

Shame I'm not going -- couldn't seem to find a partner -- all the ladies had been snapped up :)

SpinDr.

David Franklin

27th-February-2004, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by spindr
Remember at the very least you can walk out onto that dance floor like the greatest dancer in the world (at least until the music starts).Why am I envisaging Rowan Atkinson confidently strutting onto the floor, oblivious as his braces give way and his trousers slowly but surely end up around his ankles...?

Dave

Lory

27th-February-2004, 06:08 PM

I've just spoken to Tramp and he reliably informs me that he's competing in the 'beginners' with Holly and Kate consecutively!:D :whistle:

Andy McGregor

27th-February-2004, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by Jayne
[pedant mode on] if you're an intermediate, why did you choose to enter the advanced with your first partner, Kate. SUrely if you're an intermediate you would enter that category first?[pedant mode off]

J :nice:

Because Kate was already doing the intermediate with Sheepy.

Gareth

27th-February-2004, 06:33 PM

I just hope you realise the implications.If any of you guys dropping down "for a bit of fun"actually get into the finals, then you will be denying a genuine intermediate. I for one will not be applauding you. I am also certain that if the other competitors find out, they will also find it hard to comprehend. Therefore, for you is this competition worth while?

We all have consciences, I suggest you consider the advice given in here and do the right thing:)

spindr

27th-February-2004, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by Gareth
We all have consciences, I suggest you consider the advice given in here and do the right thing:)

Well I can certainly imagine Andy dancing as an intermediate follower, but I'm not quite so sure about Sheepman -- will enquire tonight :)

SpinDr.

Andy McGregor

27th-February-2004, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by spindr
Well I can certainly imagine Andy dancing as an intermediate follower, but I'm not quite so sure about Sheepman -- will enquire tonight :)

SpinDr.

Sheepy is a rubbish follower. He even leads when he's in drag!

On the other hand, I'm never sure if I'm being a man or a woman any more...

Boomer

27th-February-2004, 07:59 PM

Umm, regarding my ealier post. Somewhere in that rant, an opinion was expressed that I still stand by. However, my tone was bang out of order and unwarrented - for that, sorry guys.

Katie

27th-February-2004, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by Gareth
I just hope you realise the implications.If any of you guys dropping down "for a bit of fun"actually get into the finals, then you will be denying a genuine intermediate.

:mad: Correction, i am going 'up' to the advanced "for a bit of fun" with Andy.

Kate

Andy McGregor

27th-February-2004, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by Boomer
Umm, regarding my ealier post. Somewhere in that rant, an opinion was expressed that I still stand by. However, my tone was bang out of order and unwarrented - for that, sorry guys.

I have received a PM from Boomer aplogising and offering me huge amounts of chocolate and bananas. Your offer is accepted:flower:

Boomer

27th-February-2004, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I have received a PM from Boomer aplogising and offering me huge amounts of chocolate and bananas. Your offer is accepted:flower:

Help yourself to the chocolate but get your hands of my 'narnas! 'Narnas are mine and mine alone....and I'm still way weirder that the mighty blue atom! Vote Boomer, he's wierder! And I can't even decide how to spell the word :blush:

Andy McGregor

27th-February-2004, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by Katie
:mad: Correction, i am going 'up' to the advanced "for a bit of fun" with Andy.

Kate

Go girl:waycool:

Lounge Lizard

27th-February-2004, 08:47 PM

Hi guys - how's the tantrum Andy?
Just got in from work [and read this lot] so sorry Andy for not replying earlier.
Teaching..........Andy if I wanted to have a go at you I would it would be direct and obvious so please cool it

You, as a writer of rules for competitions, fully understand the criteria for intermediate and advanced dancers, but decided to use the rules to justify your decision.

I recieved an Email from Sarah 'thanking Andy for teaching the class AND donating his fee to charity'.
I dont care if the Email was wrongly worded, or whether you got paid or not, IMO you are not a teacher if you teach one class
BUT
if you want to hide behind the rules to justify your entering one catagory be carefull another rule does not bite you on your ar*e.

IF you and Holly do win the intermediates methinks it could be a bitter-sweet taste for you and you are possibility putting the respect others hold for you on the line. but that is your choice.
It wont change how I feel about you.........

Incidently did you not get a third placing in a competition dancing as a lady (with Ben as lead)?
Holly is a good lead so as it is for FUN why not let her lead you in the intermediate comp or perhaps that was the cunning plan and I have just spoilt the suprise!

Oh and an apology...WHAT FOR?

And please dont harp on about the guy who the charity was for I imagine we all do a lot to help others, for most it is a private thing.

..................I think you are great fun to wind up on the forum - like the Duracell bunny continually walking in circles banging your drum. entertaining and harmless.

Peter

Andy McGregor

28th-February-2004, 01:59 AM

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
Oh and an apology...WHAT FOR?

For trying to get me disqualified from the competition by lying about me being paid to be a teacher:angry:

What is Peter's Motivation?

Now we come to the question that I can't fathom an answer to. Why has Peter decided to make this personal attack on me. I will not put forward reasons because they would be fabrications based on a few facts - rather like Peter's assertion that I'm a paid Jive teacher.

And now Peter has attempted to belittle me because I've told people that I wasn't paid and a charity benefitted - this is just a scurrilous smoke screen. Come on Peter, tell us what your real game plan is. You've tried to get me disqualified from the intermediate section of Blackpool, why?

Graham W

28th-February-2004, 03:38 AM

er, way back..
Hi Lory - am entering Advanced with partner..
& DWAS. trying to emulate Gus & Helen in 2002
reaching the final & not being a 'known' couple (well 2 me, anyway) so to speak.., but I'll just be glad to be there

G

Tiggerbabe

28th-February-2004, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
For trying to get me disqualified from the competition by lying about me being paid to be a teacher:angry:
I read Peter's post Andy and in it he says he does not think you are a teacher, but that if you are following the letter of the rules to justify entering a competition then you have to follow the letter of all the rules.

What is Peter's Motivation?
Now we come to the question that I can't fathom an answer to. Why has Peter decided to make this personal attack on me.
I don't think he has Andy.

I, personally, don't think that anyone who is entering the advanced should also be dancing in the intermediate.

I'm sure there are more than a few intermediates out there who entered this competition, hoping, maybe, that they would make it to the final and go away feeling "on top of the world" - advanced dancers entering may deny them of that.

Tiggerbabe

28th-February-2004, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by Katie
the dilemma about intermediate and advanced is further excarbated by Blackpool not having an open section. If they did, then those who are in between levels would be able to participate in the advanced, without competing with the best!!
Without competing with the best? Isn't that the whole point?????
To try and improve your placing against people of equal or better ability - not to dance in a level below your capabilities for the sake of standing a better chance of a place.

filthycute

28th-February-2004, 10:09 AM

It's only 7 sleeps until the competition now. I'm both mentally and physically drained. I decided that this week i shall try to be in ultra calm mode.......i'm doing well.......so far:sick:
But i have to say i've read this whole thread in total disbelief. There's nothing else i can say that doesn't echo the likes of LL, Gus, Sheena, etc, .....i am in complete agreement with all of them.
It's far too close to the competition for me and James to upset ourselves over this so for now we both couldn''t give a toss. We're not the ones who have to live with something that low on our conscience. I think the audience itself will clearly show how many people will be affected by these couples. I can't imagine there being an uproar when the numbers are called out. Especially if there's a Scotland couple in their heat!

Well i hope you guys all achieve whatever it is you all set out to do.......lets just hope you can deal with the aftermath.

See you all at Blackpool.:clap:

PS iwasn't really surprised that Andy couldn't decide what catergory he is capable of dancing.......from what i can make out he has just as much trouble with his gender:sick: :yum:

filthycute x x :flower:

Lounge Lizard

28th-February-2004, 10:10 AM

Oh sod this....... ANDY read my postings please, there is not an attack on you I made an observation on your use of the rules and how a litteral interpretation of the teaching rule could affect you.

but the bunny is still banging the drum about me having a go at you....so as I am accused of it here it is

Andy if you are entering the intermediate section with Holly (with you as the lead) this seems to me to be a blatent attempt by you to win at all costs.
You claim it is for fun* yet you pick one of th best young female dancers on the circuit, are you THAT desperate to win that you are prepared to risk offending ALL of your dance collegues for that moment of glory and bit of kudos?

If the answer is yes then Mikey was right you are sad, if as I think, this is not the case dig yourself out of this hole and stop being an ar*e.

Accept you are an advanced dancer both in skill, ability, and competition experience, and that your knowlege of moves, music interpretation and lead put you above intermediate level... ok your dress sense is not to advanced standards:rofl:

Seems strange that you are entering a major competition and if you win the intermediate you will be flamed by many, if you dont win .....you will be flamed anyway.
Good luck anway, I will be one of the silent majority watching your every move.

Peter

*Perhaps you are only entering the advanced for fun which means you are going all out to win the intermediate, if so say so.

Jive Brummie

28th-February-2004, 11:21 AM

I think this thread has turned really interesting.

It was only last week that i was made aware that there was some intermediate/advanced crossing over, but at the time I was under the impression that it was maybe an advanced lead with an intermediate follower..........now it seems, that isn't the case. I've never really seen the dancers mentioned dance, but obviously from what is written on the forum about them, they are true advanced dancers..........have seen Holly on the Jive Masters vid and, be honest, she's well advanced........So, wether the rules are being broken or not, the issue is more of a moral dilemma than anything alse. If it doesn't specify details in the rules then they're not breaking any, bending them maybe, but not breaking. I agree with LL, (no surprises there:wink: ), with reference to abiding by the letter of the law thing......kind of a double standards thing going on:confused: methinks Andy. I'm more than sure Peter isn't flaming you for supporting a charity as that would be callous and make him an a*rsehole.........Peter is neither of these things.

Gus, despite his stirring:worthy: has said many a true thing with reference to myself and Melanie. We have worked hard, we are dancing for the'pride of Scotland' and we do want to do a very best. In my opinion, we're not alone in this. Everyone, if they admit to it or not, has a competetive spirit and wants to do well, it's human nature. But to work your nuts off only to be in a heat full of advanced dancers makes all that effort kind of wasted:confused: :tears:

I wish all the couples 'crossing over' all the luck in the world, and I hope for your sakes that you do do well because if you get knocked out in the early rounds or don't make the final, or don't get placed, then people will then naturally question why you're even entering advanced???? If you do well, people will be muttering about moral's and personnal ethics....you've put yourselves in a no-win situation by entering in a win-at-all-costs manner!!!!!!!

Personnally it makes me just want to dance harder and better.......so that people think twice before doing it again..........oh, and remember........it's just for fun...........Aye right!!!:rofl:

James..........x

Jive Brummie

28th-February-2004, 11:27 AM

It's also my intention to paint half my face blue and bare my ass to anyone passing by.....................:sick:

Andy McGregor

28th-February-2004, 11:56 AM

Just to respond, yet again, yawn.

Please note, I've only been responding in my defence, LL is the one driving this.

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
Andy if you are entering the intermediate section with Holly (with you as the lead) this seems to me to be a blatent attempt by you to win at all costs.
You claim it is for fun* yet you pick one of th best young female dancers on the circuit, are you THAT desperate to win that you are prepared to risk offending ALL of your dance collegues for that moment of glory and bit of kudos?

If the answer is yes then Mikey was right you are sad, if as I think, this is not the case dig yourself out of this hole and stop being an ar*e.

Firstly, I did not pick Holly to be my partner, she asked me. LL has chosen to say I asked Holly to support his twisted argument.

I dance for fun and I only enter competitions for fun. Does anyone think Nina and I entered the Ceroc champs dressed as Popeye and Olive Oyl with any expectation of winning:confused:

I don't think it's me being an 'arse':wink: According to the rules I qualify for and have entered the intermediate section of a dance competition. The competition is to select the 'best' dancers from those who meet the selection criteria. To say that the best qualifying dancers can't enter because they would win is a complete nonsense. Amir and DavidB have supported the argument that people like me should be able to enter and they are far more expert than I am. I really can't understand what the problem is:confused:

Secondly I will not win (but I plan to do better than Sheepman and we have as little side-bet going on that subject), I'm quite certain of that - I didn't even make the final of the intermediate last year with another fantastic dancer who subsequently won the seniors section of Britroc with another partner:tears: LL's comment begs the question (and brings us back to a more general discussion - phew!) 'if Hollie and I are too good for the intermediate section doesn't that mean that the couples that beat us are too good as well?' Are they going to be labeled 'sad' too?

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
Accept you are an advanced dancer both in skill, ability, and competition experience, and that your knowlege of moves, music interpretation and lead put you above intermediate level... ok your dress sense is not to advanced standards:rofl:

I love the first bit and wish it were true. I've been dancing for ages and I still feel like a beginner, especially when I dance with or watch the likes of DavidB, Amir or even Roger Chin (who I think is greatly underrated as a dancer). Just like a beginner, almost every move I do at the moment I learnt in the last 12 months - apart from a handful of beginners moves. I do have a lot of competition 'experience' and most of that is of losing:tears: I've only been placed once and that was 3rd place in the intermediate with Ben. I don't think that disqualifies me from anything and if it were ballroom I'd still need to win at that level 3 times before being made to go up to the next level!

I will admit that my women's clothes could be better, but you wouldn't believe how hard it is to find something that fits:blush:

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
*Perhaps you are only entering the advanced for fun which means you are going all out to win the intermediate, if so say so.

I'm doing the WHOLE THING for fun. And I'm not going to let anything LL says on here spoil that fun element. Last Wednesday Kate was asked how our practicing was going, her answer was along the lines of 'we've hardly danced together at all, but Andy's spent much, much longer discussing outfits'. And I've spent less time on outfits with Kate than I have with Hollie. BTW, Hollie and I started practicing together for the first time on Tuesday this week - have we left it a wee bit late...

Seriously:really:

Andy McGregor

28th-February-2004, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by Jive Brummie
I think this thread has turned really interesting.

..snip...

I wish all the couples 'crossing over' all the luck in the world, and I hope for your sakes that you do do well because if you get knocked out in the early rounds or don't make the final, or don't get placed, then people will then naturally question why you're even entering advanced???? If you do well, people will be muttering about moral's and personal ethics....you've put yourselves in a no-win situation by entering in a win-at-all-costs manner!!!!!!!

I'm glad someone can see the silly situation some of us have been put in by a handful of postings. This is one time that I'm glad most dancers aren't on the Forum.

And the annoying thing is that I know my true motivation it's not 'win at all cost' but LL chooses not to believe me, I keep having to tell him he's wrong, and he keeps saying he doesn't believe me....

I think it's time I stopped defending myself if this particular debate with LL. Somebody please ask him to stop....

Maybe I'll go all parliamentary and 'refer the gentleman to my previous answer'.

Mary

28th-February-2004, 12:45 PM

I love you to bits Andy, but crikey you do love a bit of a flare-up!! I know you are not setting out to deliberately offend or upset anyone in your actions, and you are doing it just for fun. However, it seems some issues have been raised as a result of this and should be taken on board. Please be sensitive to other peoples take on the situation (which I'm sure you are), and then if you believe that what you are doing is right (or, at least, not wrong) then you don't have to continually feel the need to defend yourself. To the rest of us bystanders on the forum it sounds like you want to have a cat-fight - in this instance with LL. Although it might be 'entertaining' for a while it ain't cricket old chap - but then I'm soft and I like to see fair play. Some of us may have got some ideas and notions twisted in our head, but all of this seems to be just fanning the flames.

And don't start on me now - unless you just love an excuse to kiss and make up after a fight.:wink: :hug:

Oh, and JiveBrummie - you don't have anything to worry about mate.:worthy: I'll knobble him this week at Hipsters.:D :D Whoa, only kidding Andy.:whistle:

M

Gareth

28th-February-2004, 12:48 PM

Andy,
You may think that you are an intermediate because of the grey areas in the rules.

What I can`t see. Is how this applies to Hollie?

Hollie was finalist in both of these comps but she still quaifies as an 'intermediate' dancer according to the rules of the comp.

Hollie is a advanced dancer irrespective of whether she asked you to dance or not.

Which part of Hollie is an Advanced dancer don`t you understand?:confused:

David Franklin

28th-February-2004, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by Gareth
Andy,
You may think that you are an intermediate because of the grey areas in the rules.

What I can`t see. Is how this applies to Hollie?The problem is that the only criterion in the rules is whether you have been paid to teach in the previous two years. If Nigel and Nina stopped charging for teaching, if the current rules still applied then they would be eligible for intermediate in 2006!

In the past, the need for rules to "enforce" the division people enter has generally not been seen as necessary. I am sure that the actions of various parties at Blackpool will cause this to change in the future...

Dave

Gareth

28th-February-2004, 01:06 PM

In the past, the need for rules to "enforce" the division people enter has generally not been seen as necessary. I am sure that the actions of various parties at Blackpool will cause this to change in the future...

In the mean while, genuine intermediates who would love to have the ability to dance advanced, have to grin and bear it.

Thanks guys!!:mad:

Gus

28th-February-2004, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by Graham W
......am entering Advanced with partner.. & DWAS. trying to emulate Gus & Helen in 2002 reaching the final & not being a 'known' couple

Urrr wish you the best of luck ... make sure you dont end up emulating the Gus & Helen 2003 version though :tears: :wink:

Andy McGregor

28th-February-2004, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by Gareth
Andy,
You may think that you are an intermediate because of the grey areas in the rules.

Yawn.

What grey area would that be? The rules are completely clear. If you've paid to teach in the last 2 years you can't enter. Neither Hollie nor I have been paid to teach. Where in that is there a grey area?:confused:

Originally posted by Gareth
Which part of Hollie is an Advanced dancer don`t you understand?:confused:

Gareth is right. Hollie could compete in the Advanced section at Blackpool - absolutely anyone can - even Gareth!

But that doesn't mean that Hollie can't compete in the Intermediate section as well, she qualifies. All competitions are to find the best of those who quaify, what is the problem?:confused:

Keith

28th-February-2004, 02:42 PM

In the past, the need for rules to "enforce" the division people enter has generally not been seen as necessary. I am sure that the actions of various parties at Blackpool will cause this to change in the future...

Dave [/B][/QUOTE]

I believe all competitions in the past have been run with that element of fair play in them.
It appears to be an evil necessity to change rules in the interest of fair play.
When I started dancing an intermediate was someone who had not danced for too long, usually less than 2 years, or would never be a person who wished to progress further than a couple of nights dancing each week for fun!
I'm sure everyone of us in our heart of hearts knows what standard we are, and those that answer intermediate to the person who asks them on a Tuesday night at their local venue, would be telling the truth. I'm sure that most people who have been asked this question have danced for more than 2 years & answered at least 'Intermediate to advanced' & not because they believe that, but because they wish to behave humbly.
If you are a true intermediate, you would not have the confidence to enter the Advanced, surely this must answer who is & who is not?
Please in the future do not spoil a true intermediates moment of glory, because the rules can be flaunted!
The thing I have always loved about dancing is the genuinely nice people you meet, please lets keep it that way.

Keith :rofl:

Dance Demon

28th-February-2004, 02:46 PM

Good grief Andy....you're a right little terrier are you not.....once you get your teeth into something, you don't like to let go. Think it's pretty clear now that most don't share your viewpoint on the "Advanced or intermediate" argument, and that LLs comments were not meant as a slur on your character re your teaching for free for charity. Why not just let it rest now, before it stats to get too boring, and someone suggests that you carry out Jeff jaspers request:wink:

Andy McGregor

28th-February-2004, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by Dance Demon
Good grief Andy....you're a right little terrier are you not.....once you get your teeth into something, you don't like to let go. Think it's pretty clear now that most don't share your viewpoint on the "Advanced or intermediate" argument, and that LLs comments were not meant as a slur on your character re your teaching for free for charity. Why not just let it rest now, before it stats to get too boring, and someone suggests that you carry out Jeff jaspers request:wink:

I agree with Dance Demon. I wanted to stop posting on this subject ages ago. If people had left it so would I. But, to leave a lie unopposed could cause it to become a truth. If people stop posting lies and fabrications about me I'll stop defending them:flower:

p.s. I've been trying, every day, to follow Jeff Jasper's instructions but I think I'm only a beginner in this department. If I keep trying for 2 years though I'll be an intermediate:wink:

Dance Demon

28th-February-2004, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor

p.s. I've been trying, every day, to follow Jeff Jasper's instructions but I think I'm only a beginner in this department. If I keep trying for 2 years though I'll be an intermediate:wink:

:rofl:

Mary

28th-February-2004, 03:53 PM

Changing the subject but staying on thread........................one week today!!!!!!!!!!!:what: :what: :really:

M

DavidB

28th-February-2004, 05:18 PM

This thread has kept me amused during a pretty hectic week at work. So a big thanks to all the participants.

I honestly don't believe anyone is trying to gain an unfair advantage by entering 2 divisions, or has stepped down a division to guarantee a win. Had any of the people mentioned just entered the one division, then no-one would have said anything. The fact that they have entered two just means they pay more money.

I'm always reluctant to add more and more rules, especially when it comes to eligability. They can be impossible to enforce. Perhaps the only thing I'd suggest in future is that your second entry is only provisional until the closing date, and then is confirmed if there is still room. Then you can't be preventing someone else entering (which to me is the only really valid point raised.)

Overall the 'problem' is that the standard of dancing has got better. The difference between the typical Intermediate with 1-2 years' experience, and the Advanced finalists is far bigger than it used to be. And there are far more people between these two extremes. Trying to pigeonhole people into one of just two categories no longer works for many people. You will get this problem no matter how many categories you have - I just think at the moment enough people are being affected that an extra category would be beneficial.

If you think about it, it is one of the best 'problems' you could have.

David

Gareth

28th-February-2004, 11:34 PM

Gareth is right. Hollie could compete in the Advanced section at Blackpool - absolutely anyone can - even Gareth!

AS Keith has stated:
If you are a true intermediate, you would not have the confidence to enter the Advanced, surely this must answer who is & who is not?

I would love to be of the ability to dance in advance.But unfortunately as most will agree, I have neither the confidence or the ability:tears:

I know my place...........Anyway I`m going to concentrate on getting myself ready for next weekend.

I wish all competitors the best of luck, may sense prevail:D

Gus

29th-February-2004, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by Gareth

I know my place...........Anyway I`m going to concentrate on getting myself ready for next weekend.

Concure wholeheartedly.

Just finished final preparation with Helen .... HUGE improvement ... gone from "Totaly embaressment" to "Intermediate here we come". Now, with no opportunities left to practice, relying on the age old techniques of avidly watching dance videos, reading through reams of dance notation in the cartain belief that such moves will be absorbed by natural osmosis so that when we step out on the hallowed Blackpool floor all will quake at the superb moves that are suddenly available to us:sick: :sick: ... OK .... if we manage to get through one dance without in one piece I'll be a happy chappy.

PS .... to all those who are relying on using videoing to improve their dancing ... DON'T .... as usual thought our dancing was OK till I watched the video ... remineded me of (one of) the reasons why I swore never to compete again. I think the confidence I had before watching the video was infinitely more useful than the grim technical appreciation I gained afterwards:(

So ... like all good exams ... is it too late to start cramming? Can we just go out and have fun yet?:grin:

Lounge Lizard

29th-February-2004, 12:31 PM

Hi guys
a few days ago I clicked on this thread tp 'plug the blues room' and happend to make an extra posting about intermediate/advanced..........oh boy!

So blues room - anyone got a 'blue' flag I can use in front of the DJ desk.

Will there be a scottish corner/balcony if so can us southerners join you.

Who is going to be there Friday?

How about a forum dinner for any that have paid for the meal bit.
Just a few ideas
Good luck to all (well nearly all) and I look forward to Mell & James winning the intermediate - how loud will the room get!!!!

C U All Friday/Saturday

Peter

Gareth

29th-February-2004, 01:49 PM

Hi Gus,
I wish you luck in your endeavours next weekend. Please pass on my kind regards to Helen, who I was fortunate enough to meet and dance with recently in Montgenvre. Your a lucky guy to have such a great partner. I would`nt worry about past events just think positive. Dancing competitions are totally fickle, in your own oppinion you can dance the best ever and yet come nowhere. Or dance with two left feet and fly through to the next heat. Thats judged sports for you :confused:

I felt I danced crap this weekend in a regional competition, yet other dancers came up and told us how good we were.

Perhaps they got us mixed up withsome one different :D

I look forward to seeing you guys @ Blackpool

Gareth

TheTramp

29th-February-2004, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by Gareth
AS Keith has stated:

I would love to be of the ability to dance in advance.But unfortunately as most will agree, I have neither the confidence or the ability:tears:

I know my place...........Anyway I`m going to concentrate on getting myself ready for next weekend.

I wish all competitors the best of luck, may sense prevail:D Ummm.

Just out of interest. Are you the same Gareth who is listed on the Trinity LeRoc website

http://www.trinityleroc.co.uk/classes.htm

As being one of the teachers??

Just curious you understand. Obviously as regarding your eligibility to enter the intermediate at Blackpool, which, in the letter of the rules, categorically says that no teachers can enter this section, and from your posts, I get the impression that you are entering this category. If you aren't, I do apologise...

Trampy

TheTramp

29th-February-2004, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by Gareth
I had stopped dancing for a year, when my sister suggested going to a LeRoc class in Cardiff run by Mark Wilson and Jenn White. I have been doing LeRoc for 4 years. I now dance and teach at Trinity LeRoc at BAWA, Bristol, with fantastic support from Dave & Kat. Just read your post in the introduction thread, and this is what you have to say about yourself.

Please clarify that you definitely aren't entering the intermediate section in Blackpool....

Trampy

Gareth

29th-February-2004, 02:44 PM

Hi Trampster,
You are quite correct in some of your assumptions. I have recently started to fulfil a organisational role within Trinity. I am not a qualified teacher. I have however just started teacher training. I do not have a regular class. Nor have I ever taken any payment. I help out for purely for pleasure. Just the same as many others I.E. taxi dancers. There are no Taxi dancers titles as such in Trinity. but I fulfil a similar role. So the wording of the web site is a generalisation.:rolleyes:

I do this role on an irregular basis due to work commitents.I do plan to change this in the near future and as such will dance advanced. As far as I am concerned this does`nt contraven any rules.

I am having this clarified and if need be would change categories.
I have never been placed in any national competition finals. In fact we got knocked out first round last year in the intermediates.:tears:

Gareth

Gareth

29th-February-2004, 02:49 PM

Just read your post in the introduction thread, and this is what you have to say about yourself.

Hi Trampster,
You have been busy:D

My introduction was a generalisation not a pin point detailed description.

I have delusions of grandeur :waycool:

As to C2D please refer to my previous reply. I`m perfectly open about this and i`m not trying to con anyone.;)

TheTramp

29th-February-2004, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by Gareth
You are quite correct in some of your assumptions. I have recently started to fulfil a organisational role within Trinity. I am not a qualified teacher. I have however just started teacher training. I do not have a regular class. Nor have I ever taken any payment. I help out for purely for pleasure. Just the same as many others I.E. taxi dancers. There are no Taxi dancers titles as such in Trinity. but I fulfil a similar role. So the wording of the web site is a generalisation.:rolleyes:

I do this role on an irregular basis due to work commitents.I do plan to change this in the near future and as such will dance advanced. As far as I am concerned this does`nt contraven any rules.

I am having this clarified and if need be would change categories.
I have never been placed in any national competition finals. In fact we got knocked out first round last year in the intermediates.:tears:It wasn't an assumption.

I was merely exactly quoting what it says on the website, and in your introduction. The only assumption I made, was that you were entering the intermediate, which has proved to be correct.

It doesn't say 'taxi dancer', or 'assistant teacher'. It just says teacher. If you hadn't made this statement, then there wouldn't have been any question, as obviously taxi-dancers are permitted in the intermediate.

Of course, I believe that teachers should be allowed in the intermediate anyway. I've seen a good number of actual teachers who I know wouldn't place anywhere in the intermediate anyhow. And some that wouldn't get to the final. I could name a couple that I think would struggle to get past the first round.... :whistle:

Trampy

Gareth

29th-February-2004, 02:59 PM

Hi Trampster,
No problem. Its just we are`nt a franchise and as such don`t have any titles. The punters/class just see us as teachers, whether you demonstrate or Taxi. It just simplifies things.

See you next week

Gareth

Andy McGregor

29th-February-2004, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by Gareth
Hi Trampster,
You are quite correct in some of your assumptions. I have recently started to fulfil a organisational role within Trinity. I am not a qualified teacher. I have however just started teacher training. I do not have a regular class. Nor have I ever taken any payment. I help out for purely for pleasure. Just the same as many others I.E. taxi dancers. There are no Taxi dancers titles as such in Trinity. but I fulfil a similar role. So the wording of the web site is a generalisation.:rolleyes:

I do this role on an irregular basis due to work commitents.I do plan to change this in the near future and as such will dance advanced. As far as I am concerned this does`nt contraven any rules.

Gareth is quite right that, according to the rules he quilifies as an intermediate. I support him in that. And I re-state that I believe the competition should, IMHO, be to find the best dancers who qualifies for each section of the competition. To have some unwritten or imaginaray rules that exist in people's minds is unfair as different people with have different interperetations of those unwritten rules. Some competitors might decide to keep out of the intermediate competition because someone tells them they don't qualify by their interperetation of those unwritten/imaginary rules while others, of greater ability, might decide they do qualify using a different set of unwritten rules:confused:

What I do find strange is that Gareth has accused me of using a 'grey area' of the rules to justify mine and Hollie's intermediate status, with the implication that we should not have entered - and then the uses the same rules to justify his own intermediate status:confused:

And Hollie and I do not appear on anyone's website as one of their line-up of teachers and I have not called myself a teacher on here - because I am not one!

Gareth

29th-February-2004, 03:56 PM

Hi Andy,

I`m sorry if my threads might appear to be hypocritical. But we are talking about two totally seperate areas. I queried your status from a competitive stance. Considering you have both competed at a far higher level than me.

Trampster quite rightly queried my status. Which I have already explained, is more to with organisational status than anything else.

Just to re-iterate:
I have never even entered or considered an advanced competition because I don`t fulfil the criteria:

1. I`m not good enough.
2. I don`t have the confidence
3. I`m not a qualified teacher (one day perhaps :) )
4. I `ve never been paid

My partner Jill has never taught or competed in any advanced category.

We all have aspirations to be as good as you guys, I`m at the very early stages of learning, in all areas.
:blush:

We could`nt be futher apart in ability, or competitive experience.

Andy McGregor

29th-February-2004, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by Gareth
Just to re-iterate:
I have never even entered or considered an advanced competition because I don`t fulfil the criteria:

1. I`m not good enough.
2. I don`t have the confidence
3. I`m not a qualified teacher (one day perhaps :) )
4. I `ve never been paid

My partner Jill has never taught or competed in any advanced category.

But there is nothing in the rules that stops Gareth entering the Advanced Category - he just doesn't think he's good enough. Neither am I, but I haven't let a little think like ability stand in my way....

My aspiration in entering the Advanced is to get one round further than Sheepman:devil: I have a horrible feeling that Sheepman and l will both go out in the first round and be left still not knowing who the better man is:wink: Kate and I don't belong in the Advanced section any more than Gareth and Jill, but we've entered because we like dancing together and to add to the fun of the whole day.

Jive Brummie

29th-February-2004, 08:18 PM

To interupt this 'discussion' about who should and who shouldn't do whatever with whoever, wherever they want, I would just like to say all the very best of luck to a Scottish Team cabaret who go by the name of "The Scintillating Sinners" . Have been watching them for a couple of weeks and can honestly say they're fantastic. Great choroeography, great music, outfits and people. Hats off to the people involved as the amount of work required to get to the brilliant level you're all at, must have been immense. Me and FC will be cheering you on as loudly as we can.

All the best guys.......:flower:

James & Melanie....xxx

Gus

29th-February-2004, 10:32 PM

Taking a slightly different tack on the Teachers things....

Are any Ceroc teachers competing this year. In previous years they seem to have been a bit thin on the ground ... well, there in person but not competing. any of the Ceroc Scotland teachers in the advanced? Any of the JiveMasters Finalists competing, e.g Mick Wenger, Marc? Please note that this post is in line with the usual pre-competiton routine of scareing myself sh**less as to the standard of competition:sick:

Tiggerbabe

29th-February-2004, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by Jive Brummie
Me and FC will be cheering you on as loudly as we can.

All the best guys.......:flower:

James & Melanie....xxx
Thanks guys, it's been great to have you at the recent rehearsals, really appreciate you giving up your free time to come along and help us out.

Good luck from me too, to everyone, everywhere who is taking part in any of the competitions - but ...........especially............

GO SCOTLAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dreadful Scathe

1st-March-2004, 12:27 AM

Originally posted by Jive Brummie
Me and FC will be cheering you on as loudly as we can.

I hope you'll be cheering for us too ....and Luscious Lindsay and her team for that matter. GO SCOTLAND!!!

Bill

1st-March-2004, 01:06 AM

Originally posted by Gareth
3. I`m not a qualified teacher (one day perhaps :) )
4. I `ve never been paid

The current debate about 'rules', 'ethics' or the spirit of competition and who is or isnt a teacher rekindles a few of the previous discussions and I thoink points to the need for clarification form all organisers on a number of the issues.

Davidb is correct ( as usual) in saying that the standard has improved and I think many more dancers are taking the whole competition thing much more seriously.

Some rules seems to differ from one of the main comps to another. I'd not heard of the ' 2 year rule' to qualify as a teacher but who is or isn't a teacher has been raised before.

Gareth hasn't yet trained as a teacher but is about to so can enter the Intermediate. As soon as he has qualifed and 'teaches' his first class he will have to enter the Advanced whether he thinks he should or not. IN the Ceroc champs he would have to enter the Open as he's be a trained teacher and paid. Is that fair ? Would he be in the same league as Viktor, Clayton et al ????

In the Scottish Comp it would appear that paid teachers can enter as long as they haven't been professionally trained which allowed the Tramp to enter. Steve has competed at a high level for a few years now and there must be a number of 'teachers' at weekenders and workshops who have also made a name by competing and winning though not trained. Steve, Gus and others have said for some time that teachers aren't always the best dancers so is there any 'fair ' way of deciding who competes in which category or should even teachers be graded ????

There are anomalies in the rules and maybe the organisers should get together and try to agree with a set of guidelines/rules to clarify things although this is highly unlikely.

What the discussion over the last few days does highlight is that there probably is a need to have 3 categories at all major comps and that teachers are clearly and consistently identified.

Good luck to everyone for Saturday and hope no-one else is quite so terrified as Gus and I obviously are :tears: :sick: :what:

Lounge Lizard

1st-March-2004, 09:01 AM

Perhaps in the future some of the pointers raised by trampy & others can be adopted.

A dancer can enter the intermediate or advanced and go on a 'reserve' list for a second category.

why not include with application form [for ANYONE with teaching, cabaret or competition experience, A declaration form, covering previous competitions entered, teaching and cabaret experience), - the organisers then have the opportunity to 'move up or down' categories - Graham, I believe done this at Britroc.
The form could be available from web-page so standard format is used.
peter

Gus

1st-March-2004, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
A dancer can enter the intermediate or advanced and go on a 'reserve' list for a second category.

I think (going into Consultant mode :tears: ) that you have to first ask the question as to why they are separate catgeories. In general all categories mean is that you have those that are the real competitiors ... and the rest that aren't as good but still want to compete.

IMHO you therefore only have two categories ... those that ARE the best, and those that still wnat to compete for fun. Being a typical consultant I've not provided any satisfactory solution ... just tried to clarify the situation (yeaahh ... like I even believe that myself)

HOWEVER ... as a dancer I like the idea of 3 categories: IMPROVERS, ADVANCED, DANCE GODS (:wink: )

Andy McGregor

1st-March-2004, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by Gus
..DANCE GODS (:wink: )

..and GODESSES if Gus wants to stay intact:innocent:

JamesGeary

1st-March-2004, 10:52 AM

If you ranked a 100 couples and then picked points to class intermediate and advanced. Then which couples get to win just depends where you put the markers.

Also I think every competition I've ever seen I would have placed the couple that won intermediate about 3rd in advanced. Can anyone think of any exceptions?

Pammy

1st-March-2004, 11:05 AM

Just a personal request, completely irrelevant but can anyone I don't know from the forum come and say hi next weekend :grin: . I'd really love to meet all the characters on here I haven't yet had the pleasure to meet.

Looking forward to seeing all of you who I already have met; especially the Scottish crowd as it's been too long :cheers:

See you all there.

Pammy x

Katie

1st-March-2004, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by Sheena
Without competing with the best? Isn't that the whole point?????
To try and improve your placing against people of equal or better ability - not to dance in a level below your capabilities for the sake of standing a better chance of a place.

This a is wrong assumption about me. I should have been more clear about 'competing with the best'. I meant without competing with the teachers and professionals, but competing with the best amateurs. After all i am amateur, with little competition experience and i am competing with Greg who i feel is an intermediate dancer, according to the Blackpool rules. The intermediate standard is higher than those at Ceroc and Britroc because there are only two categories. Like i said, if there were 3 categories, then i would enter the advanced, which is for the best non-professionals. Greg has got two third places but it is not the same as a 1st place.
For a woman, i can only be as good as my lead.

Sheepman

1st-March-2004, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by Katie
i can only be as good as my lead. :tears: :tears: :tears: :tears:
Greg x

Mary

1st-March-2004, 12:07 PM

This thread/discussion is beginning to p*ss me off. Everyone seems to be just going round and round in circles so maybe it's time to just drop it. Keith from C2D has been watching the discussion and taken on board what people have been saying so some good has come out of it, but maybe it's time to just leave it there.

Let's just look forward to the weekend and having fun. Those watching will decide for themselves who looked best, who should have won, who they enjoyed watching etc. Some couples who have not previously been placed have already made a name for themselves (after all it's not exactly the prizemoney we do it for - no offence C2D). Mel & James - not placed but people are looking out for them. Gareth & Jill - not finalists but well-known on the circuit. Trampy - the perpetual beginner. We will always admire the people we like watching regardless of the category IMO.

Or am I being too uncontraversial!!:rolleyes:

Personally I am petrified and excited at the same time. Now I have heard that Viktor & Lily are competing!:tears: :tears:

5 days.............:sick:

M

Pammy

1st-March-2004, 12:13 PM

:yeah: Well said Mary.

Let's all just have a good time and enjoy the weekend together :hug: .

Pamkinite
x

Dreadful Scathe

1st-March-2004, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by Pammy
I'd really love to meet all the characters on here I haven't yet had the pleasure to meet.

well, you've never really MET me as such, we never discussed LEGO or the merits of dry-ice machines in a fantasy dungeon-in-your-own home scenario ! Hopefully, that and many other very important topics can be discussed at Blackpool.

We'll have a table (the discussting table?) so other people can join in :).

Gadget

1st-March-2004, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by Katie
For a woman, i can only be as good as my lead.
oooh, I disagree with this: :devil:
As I have stated before, I am an "intermediate" dancer, but if I competed with an "Advanced" follower, I would only ever contemplate entering under the "advanced" category.

The lead's job is to make the lady look good: with an advanced follower, half the work is done and you can concentrate on remembering moves that allow her to shine. :waycool: (and not worry that any impromtue improvisation or cover-up's will be too obvious :grin: )
Not that I would even entertain the notion that I would be placed, but I would hope to get through a couple of rounds. Especially if we had time to practice together.

If I were to enter with the same partner in the "intermediates" (with the same proviso of having practiced together) I would hope for a placing.

When competing, personally, I prefer to be about mid level: Knowing I am better than some, looking to people above for inspiration and a target of where I want to be. If I am competing at the top level, then there is so much more preasure to stay there and beat everyone else. By entering in the "advanced" rather than competing at the top level of the "intermediate", I am releaving myself of this pressure (or would be if I were competing :wink: )

Stuart M

1st-March-2004, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
well, you've never really MET me as such, we never discussed LEGO or the merits of dry-ice machines in a fantasy dungeon-in-your-own home scenario ! Hopefully, that and many other very important topics can be discussed at Blackpool.

We'll have a table (the discussting table?) so other people can join in :).
If that's your criteria then how many people have you actually met and does it require more fingers than exist on one hand? :D

And I really don't want to know what a discussting table is....:what:

Pammy - would love to meet you for a dance - if you're looking to find me I'll be in the Scottish contingent (I'll assume you won't need more directions than that :grin: ). Clues as to what I look like? Imagine the guy in this (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=35686#post35686) pic doing a bad Ali G impersonation.

Bill

1st-March-2004, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by Sheepman
:tears: :tears: :tears: :tears:
Greg x

erm.................no pressure then Greg :rolleyes: :sick: :D but if you don't win then we know who to blame :whistle:

Jayne

1st-March-2004, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by Stuart M
Clues as to what I look like? Imagine the guy in this (http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=35686#post35686) pic doing a bad Ali G impersonation.
Tee hee - what's Wendy making you wear??

J :nice:

Bill

1st-March-2004, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by Mary
Personally I am petrified and excited at the same time. Now I have heard that Viktor & Lily are competing!:tears: :tears:

5 days.............:sick:

M

:sick: :tears: .............. I don't want to do this anymore......... :(

At first I didn't want to be in thesame heat as Lilly and Viktor but now I do because I can then say I danced in the same comp and heat as them :D and no-one will notice us because they'll all be too busy watching them :na: ........in fact I'll probably be watching them.

you listening Keith , Tony and gang :flower:

or mary, if we're in the same heat maybe we can dance close to each other for morla support :hug:

Bill

1st-March-2004, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
We'll have a table (the discussting table?) so other people can join in :).

and there will be you and some of your imaginary friends then oh sad blue one........

Pammy .........avoid this fellow like the plague. He might be able to dance but boy is he weird................... then again being a weirdo yourself you tow should hit it off immediately :D

Oh...........little compliment DS........Fran saw you dancing with Lilly at the BB and thought you looked amazing:D I assumed she meant some other Nick or DS character of course:whistle: :rofl:

Pammy

1st-March-2004, 12:52 PM

Sorry Bill, I've already had the pleasure of DS at Hippies and at Aberdeen so I know him quite well :grin: He is about as weird as I am though, that is fair to say :what:

Looking forward to meeting you Bill, come say hi before you go on so I can cheer you on :hug:

Stuart M

1st-March-2004, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by Jayne
Tee hee - what's Wendy making you wear??

J :nice:
You know, if only we'd thought of that before deciding on something sensible :cool:

Bit out of date though.

Wonder what the general consensus is about people entering comps in fancy dress. Sounds like an idea for a new thread...

Dreadful Scathe

1st-March-2004, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by Bill

Oh...........little compliment DS........Fran saw you dancing with Lilly at the BB and thought you looked amazing:D I assumed she meant some other Nick or DS character of course:whistle: :rofl:

you cant say 'Lily' without 'amazing' in the same sentance though, but thanks, Ive never been amazing before :D

So Bill, you still hirsute for Blackpool ?

Heather

1st-March-2004, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by Jive Brummie
To interupt this 'discussion' about who should and who shouldn't do whatever with whoever, wherever they want, I would just like to say all the very best of luck to a Scottish Team cabaret who go by the name of "The Scintillating Sinners" . Have been watching them for a couple of weeks and can honestly say they're fantastic. Great choroeography, great music, outfits and people. Hats off to the people involved as the amount of work required to get to the brilliant level you're all at, must have been immense. Me and FC will be cheering you on as loudly as we can.

All the best guys.......:flower:

James & Melanie....xxx

Thanks for your support and positive comments Mel and James,
and of course, you know we will all be cheering LOUDLY for you two !!!

:hug: :kiss:
Heather,
XX

Dancing Veela

1st-March-2004, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by Jive Brummie
I would just like to say all the very best of luck to a Scottish Team cabaret who go by the name of "The Scintillating Sinners" . Have been watching them for a couple of weeks and can honestly say they're fantastic. Great choroeography, great music, outfits and people. Hats off to the people involved as the amount of work required to get to the brilliant level you're all at, must have been immense. Me and FC will be cheering you on as loudly as we can.

All the best guys.......:flower:

James & Melanie....xxx

I know I haven't been on-line for ages but was told by a little birdy that you'd posted this and I just wanted to say THANKS for this. Thanks for your input over the past couple of weeks! And you know that we EXPECT you guys to win the intermediate :nice:

As for a note to the Smurf...... we'll be cheering you Cool Cats on (and Lyndsay's team as well) - you know we will!!!! I think it has to be Scotland 1-2-3 for Team Cabaret!!!!

I also wanted to take this chance to say thanks to the Scintillating Sinners for ALL their hard work (and boy have you guys worked!!!!). Thanks also to our tea boy and girl (Dan/Jen you are always so fantastic). And to Gregor and Ann for squeezing all the stuff into their car.

HUGE thanks to Wendy 'oh my God what HAVE we done this time?????'

DVx

Rachel

1st-March-2004, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Gus
Taking a slightly different tack on the Teachers things....

Are any Ceroc teachers competing this year. In previous years they seem to have been a bit thin on the ground ... well, there in person but not competing. any of the Ceroc Scotland teachers in the advanced? Any of the JiveMasters Finalists competing, e.g Mick Wenger, Marc? Please note that this post is in line with the usual pre-competiton routine of scareing myself sh**less as to the standard of competition:sick: Um, yes, Marc's competing but only with me (possibly!!!) so we're not going to be a threat to Anyone. (Paul and Nicola, teachers from Ceroc Central competed in the Advanced last year. Though you're right - there seemed to be quite a lack of Ceroc teachers, generally.)

It's a very scary thought - dancing in the same company as all the other names mentioned here. For my first Ever competition (except DWAS) I would have felt much more comfortable doing intermediate but, obviously, that's not possible with Marc.

Sorry Trampy, I guess my earlier posting was blatantly misleading. I wasn't really speaking hypothetically ... but I was, and still am, thinking that I could still pull out. I'm still terrified of being 'that couple from the first round who are laughable'!!! The Advanced is waaay above my level and, as I told Lory, I was previously rather embarrassed to openly admit that I'd be competing. But there, it's out now ...

Anyway, can't wait to see everyone again at Blackpool. Good luck to you all!! And as for you, Gus - you and Helen looked great last year - I would think you thoroughly deserve to do extremely well this time round.
Rachel

Gus

1st-March-2004, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by Rachel
Paul and Nicola, teachers from Ceroc Central competed in the Advanced last year. Though you're right - there seemed to be quite a lack of Ceroc teachers, generally

Urrr ... just realised a fundamental flaw in my query .... I probably wouldn't know half the Ceroc teachers even if I saw them. Would be nice to see more of the CTA (and other dance instructors competing) ... might give the Brits a chance of beating the Aussies:waycool: Come to think of it, I'm not sure which Blitz instructors are entering. I only know of Helen and George entering at moment, the only other two who may enter are Lynn (Newcastle) and Alan (Leeds).

Re comment re no threat .... urrr, made the mistake of watching the JiveMaster vid on Sunday. Thought Marc danced ok-ish in the qualifier ... BUT in the Semi-Finals he was superb ... particularly his musical interpretation ,,, hard done by not to get through .... will be watching him and you with admiration as usual.

Gareth

1st-March-2004, 02:34 PM

Gareth & Jill - not finalists but well-known on the circuit

And there was me thinking no-one had spotted us hiding in the corners :blush:

Whilst watching the real dancers :waycool:

Just taken delivery of costumes, I`m off to get a shoe horn and talc :sick:

TheTramp

1st-March-2004, 02:34 PM

:yeah: (what Gus said)

I wouldn't worry Rachel. There's no way that anyone will be looking at you and Marc and laughing. You're going to look great.

Will be looking forward to seeing you in Blackpool :hug: :D

Trampy

Chicklet

1st-March-2004, 02:37 PM

Also watched the Jive Masters Vid yesterday and was very taken with Cinty in an "oh my god what cool hips" kind of way....anyone know if she will be taking the floor in B'pool??

Gus

1st-March-2004, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Chicklet
Also watched the Jive Masters Vid yesterday and was very taken with Cinty in an "oh my god what cool hips" kind of way....anyone know if she will be taking the floor in B'pool??

Aye ... I was sort of wondering if Mick would be going up against his Mentor (Viktor) at the UK Champs ... would make a fantastic spectacle.:waycool:

Chicklet

1st-March-2004, 02:41 PM

He wasn't wearing spectacles on my vid Gus??!! You got a special directors cut version???

Andy McGregor

1st-March-2004, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by Katie
For a woman, i can only be as good as my lead.

I'm a short, balding man of nearly 50 with 3 chins and a snapped hamstring....

You've got to be better than that...

..please:flower:

Rachel

1st-March-2004, 04:21 PM

Thank you so much, Gus and Steve. Your support does make me feel somewhat better. Oh I know that Marc is superb! It's just his partner I'm worried about!

All this talk about costumes is slightly worrying, though. We haven't even considered that. Well, I've got a couple of dresses I could wear, but no idea about Marc. I haven't even got my dance shoes yet - they should have been delivered a week ago ...!

Really excited about seeing all the other dancers, and watching the spotlights and team cabarets, too! I've really enjoyed all the Scottish team cabaret's that I've seen. And I know Emma Petitt's team (who won the Ceroc champs) are putting on a showcase at Blackpool this year, too.
R.

TheTramp

1st-March-2004, 04:29 PM

Oh. I don't think that Marc will have anything to worry about with his choice of partner. She's a lovely dancer, and they look great together.

Just relax and enjoy it, you'll be fantastic.

Trampy

Bill

2nd-March-2004, 02:44 PM

Only 3 days to go...................................

Winners of the team event ..................???????

A Scottish team perhaps ???? Second..... A.N. Other Scottish team possibly ?????? 3rd ...Yet another Scottish team ???? Any teams from the south in for it ?

Cabaret winners ........... Viktor and Lilly perhaps ? Or Ash on a hat trick ???

Double trouble finalists.................. 3 very good young women from Aberdeen ????? and/ or a threesome from Dundee ??

Intermediate - too close to call but some Scottish representation ??

Advanced final .... V& L ; C&J ; maybe a surprise couple who haven't actually met up yet ?????

Seniors........ John & Hazel to retain their title ? Looked superb at the Edinburgh party last week.

It's only for fun........ it's only for fun.......it's only for fun !!!!!!!!!!
:sick: :blush: :rolleyes:

TheTramp

2nd-March-2004, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by Bill
Winners of the team event ..................???????

A Scottish team perhaps ???? Second..... A.N. Other Scottish team possibly ?????? 3rd ...Yet another Scottish team ???? Any teams from the south in for it ?

Cabaret winners ........... Viktor and Lilly perhaps ? Or Ash on a hat trick ???

Double trouble finalists.................. 3 very good young women from Aberdeen ????? and/ or a threesome from Dundee ??

Seniors........ John & Hazel to retain their title ? Looked superb at the Edinburgh party last week.
Didn't someone say that Emma Petitt whose team won at Ceroc last year are putting in an entry??

Are Viktor and Lily doing a cabaret, as well as the advanced?? Cool :D

A 3some from Dundee?? Are you averaging out the distances, or do you just wish that you lived in Dundee Bill??

And John & Hazel are indeed looking superb. It'll take something special to stop them winning again :worthy:

Trampy

Steven

2nd-March-2004, 03:07 PM

He may have been refering to myself, irene and linda.

Although i am not sure about the bit of being in the final.

See you all down there.

Cheers
Steven

TheTramp

2nd-March-2004, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by Steven
He may have been refering to myself, irene and linda.

Although i am not sure about the bit of being in the final.
Ah. Good point. Well, in that case, I'll put forward an unholy triumvirate of Aberdeen, Dundee and Edinburgh as being also a very good bet for the final.

But good luck to everyone :D

Trampy

Mary

2nd-March-2004, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by Bill

or mary, if we're in the same heat maybe we can dance close to each other for morla support :hug:

Maybe we could swap partners a few times - d'you think anyone would notice.:D :wink:

AND you're not suggesting that Scotland might actually do quite well are you Bill??:devil: Watch out for an England counter-attack.:cheers:

3 days............:sick: :sick: :sick:

M

DavidB

2nd-March-2004, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by Mary
Maybe we could swap partners a few times - d'you think anyone would notice Years ago at a University competition, 4 of us decided to swap partners during one of the competitions. We figured we had no chance of winning, so thought we would have a laugh.

However we couldn't actually find each other on the floor during the event. It was just as well for the other couple - they won!

Bill

2nd-March-2004, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by DavidB
Years ago at a University competition, 4 of us decided to swap partners during one of the competitions. We figured we had no chance of winning, so thought we would have a laugh.

Remember someone did that with Jen from Dundee in London a few years ago in the final of Lucky Dip. Mentioned before on a thread but it was very funny - and they won. They swapped for a few beats and then back again. Very entertaining but seem to recall it raised some debate about entertainment v dancing :rolleyes: :what:

96 hours and most of the rounds will be over - but who's counting :sick: :na:

Swapping is a good idea Mary. Maybe we could all have a go with you, Lilly etc and Fran could try David, Viktor.......... :whistle:

LilyB

2nd-March-2004, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by Bill
Cabaret winners ........... Viktor and Lilly perhaps ? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

TheTramp

2nd-March-2004, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by LilyB
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Does this (a) mean you're not entering the cabaret with Viktor, or (b) mean that you are, but don't rate your chances. And if it's (a), are you entering with David, or (c) not entering the cabaret at all??

:whistle:

Trampy

Bill

2nd-March-2004, 05:55 PM

Know you haven't had much time to practice with Viktor Lily and there'll be a lot of pressure on the two of you :rolleyes: ...but I think you can just stand there for 3 minutes and we'll still applaud. You are both just such stylish dancers that I'm really looking forward to seeing you dance together.
:worthy: :D

You didn't have that much practice time with James or Amir either and didn't do too badly with them :D :whistle:

Sheepman

2nd-March-2004, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by Bill
Know you haven't had much time to practice with Viktor Lily and there'll be a lot of pressure on the two of you Sorry to disappoint you Bill, but I heard a remark some weeks ago; "It seems that Viktor and Lily are dancing together a lot." Did we know where this was leading before they did? And how long will Lily's next "retirement" be - she can't do it, she's totally hooked!

But if she chooses a different partner each time, I reckon by 2019, it will be my turn :waycool:

Greg

LilyB

2nd-March-2004, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by Sheepman
. . . But if she chooses a different partner each time, I reckon by 2019, it will be my turn :waycool:

Greg Hey . . . my only permanent partner is David, of course! :innocent: :flower: With everyone else, it can only be a fleeting partnership. :sad:

Both of us, however, are too sensible to want to compete with each other - we need to preserve harmony in the matrimonial home! :what: :sick: :devil:

LilyB

Gareth

2nd-March-2004, 07:14 PM

Lily can I sigh up for your fleeting partnership please:flower:

DavidY

2nd-March-2004, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
Didn't someone say that Emma Petitt whose team won at Ceroc last year are putting in an entry??I believe they are from what I've heard.

Andy McGregor

2nd-March-2004, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by Gareth
Lily can I sigh up for your fleeting partnership please:flower:

We'd all like to 'sigh' with Lily...

Chris

2nd-March-2004, 10:00 PM

At the risk of distracting people from the more attractive plane of "sighing with Lily":

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
- the organisers then have the opportunity to 'move up or down' categories - Graham, I believe done this at Britroc.

. . . and ideas along similar lines . . .

some personal observations

The intermediate category, as far as I can see, often tends to be oversubscribed compared to the other two - or at least it's the busiest in many competitions. This is natural perhaps, but then so is wanting to have anyone seen as 'too good' moved up - even though they may feel there is too much of a gap between them and the top dancers.

It's very difficult to even out the grades - people have different ways of evaluating their own and others' performance. Except for absolute beginners and recurrent top winners there's plenty of room for argument. Even many top teachers have differing standards of grading it seems.

Most of the rules have been fairly arbitrary. e.g. beginners may have had several years dancing lindy; top teachers may not always be paid (David and Lily have been known to offer teaching without payment on occasion), or teachers may be accredited, full-time, regular or occasional etc.

Repeated wins in past competitions (at a particular level) may be one guide (it was used to some extent in the selection process of Jivemasters) so could be one of the 'self-selection' criteria.

A phrase used in many competitions to describe advanced was "for those who want to compete against the best" (my emphasis). Personally I think this still has some mileage going for it - it defines your ambition rather than forcing you into paroxysms of humility wondering how good you are (also quite objective in a way I think). In the absence of better rules, it takes away the argument about who 'should' be in any particular level.

Harrang, I'm told, has used an elimination system to grade people who were considered proficient enough to enter the following day's advanced workshop. Not sure how you could apply this to competitions but it might (perhaps) be possible to an extent, combined with other measures. It's a bit like LL's measure - though presumably the judges rather than the organisers would be delegated to apply it.

The other maxim (as well as 'wanting to compete against the best' - or against those who don't!) - that I personally find useful is the idea that ultimately you only really compete against yourself. If you can exceed your own dreams in how well you dance on the day, you've made it. Prize monies and glories are nice too (though I wouldn't know about the money lol!) - but feeling you've danced better than you could have hoped for is the best feeling of all.

Finally (thank goodness, I hear you say, thought he was going to go into a ten page epistle again) - no really - I'll stop in a minute - most of what I wanted to say has been said much better by DavidB, Amir and Divissima - but as I won't be at Blackpool this year, THE VERY BEST OF LUCK TO EVERYONE THAT'S COMPETING (and that's mates and folk unknown and even foes - all contribute and we need 'em - even the foes!)

The results are a foregone conclusion - see the prediction of comments poll - "Can't wait till next year" and "Brilliant, superb event" - so have fun and be nice to each other!

:kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:

Divissima

2nd-March-2004, 10:17 PM

I'm so sorry....
Just can't help myself. Just had to post this....

Originally posted by Chris:
so have fun and be nice to each other!Don't know if this was a conscious reference - just makes me think of 'Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure' where Abraham Lincoln tells them:

"Be excellent to each other.... and party on, dudes!!"

:waycool: :really:

I'm going now.... :blush:

Groovy Dancer

3rd-March-2004, 02:24 AM

Just a note to say 'good luck' to everyone who's taking part at the competition on Saturday:clap:

It is my first time to Blackpool (for any reason) so I am looking forward to seeing/meeting:D all of you .

To all of the lovely ladies of the forum Dundee, Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow,London,Manchester etc(hopeI haven't left out any):flower: please save a dance or two for me.:waycool:

Let us just have a fun time:rofl: :clap: and let the good times roll:yeah: 'good luck'

TheTramp

3rd-March-2004, 02:45 AM

Originally posted by Sheepman
But if she chooses a different partner each time, I reckon by 2019, it will be my turn :waycool:
I gather I'm marked down for a spot in 2104 :tears:

Trampy

stompin' phil

3rd-March-2004, 08:29 AM

For my sins i've signed up for the Dance with a stranger competion at Blackpool this week end so if any of you would like a dance with someone who will not be able to go practising before Friday please have pity on me as i need the practice.

You'll make an old man happy.

Remember it's only fun. You can't take it to serously for a £5

Oh! and it's not to late to hand me your Stompin' in Brighton forms before the wednesday deadline for the advanced discount rate before it goes up.

Remember we are all the same age just at different times!:confused:

Stompin' Phil

Andy McGregor

3rd-March-2004, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by stompin' phil
Remember we are all the same age just at different times!:confused:

Stompin' Phil

For some of us that time is very different.

On a more personal note, at 47 I've been quite smug that I don't qualify for the Veterans section at Blackpool. That was until Ceroc invented the 'Old Gits' section for the over 45s:tears:

Mary

3rd-March-2004, 02:08 PM

Dragging this back on thread - 2 days!!!!!!!!!!!!

All correctly spelt I hope.:wink:

M

Graham W

3rd-March-2004, 03:31 PM

...just want to say GOOD LUCK in partic to Lily - (spelt right!!?)
- I think u r special & me and S have appreciated yr. support
& also the Bristol competitors (even those teaching doing intermediates... ridic.)
G x

Bill

3rd-March-2004, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
For some of us that time is very different.

On a more personal note, at 47 I've been quite smug that I don't qualify for the Veterans section at Blackpool. That was until Ceroc invented the 'Old Gits' section for the over 45s:tears:

Andy..... given we're the same age maybe Lily can do double trouble with us :D .you bring your dress and I'll bring my shoes.... the wonderful Lily and 2 old gits........:whistle:

TheTramp

3rd-March-2004, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by Bill
Andy..... given we're the same age maybe Lily can do double trouble with us :D .you bring your dress and I'll bring my shoes.... the wonderful Lily and 2 old gits........:whistle: Now. There's an interesting (and entirely horrible) thought.

Maybe you can go in rugby gear. Though. Perhaps not!! :whistle:

Trampy

Bill

3rd-March-2004, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
Now. There's an interesting (and entirely horrible) thought.

Maybe you can go in rugby gear. Though. Perhaps not!! :whistle:

Trampy

You're not suggesting that Lily would be a hooker are you :eek: :rolleyes:

Minnie M

3rd-March-2004, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by Graham W
...snip...

And good luck to you and S - great meeting you last Saturday Graham :cheers:

Minnie M

3rd-March-2004, 10:17 PM

GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE COMPETING

Gareth

3rd-March-2004, 10:27 PM

(even those teaching doing intermediates... ridic.)

You will all be happy to know that Jill & I are now doing advanced category. Its like Cheltenham Town taking on Manchester United:rofl:

See you all there.

Gareth

Dreadful Scathe

3rd-March-2004, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by Gareth
You will all be happy to know that Jill & I are now doing advanced category.

Im not happy if you felt you were forced into it - no-one really cared that much, it was only a topic for discussion. Hope you do well :) How will I identify you so I can cheer ? :D

LilyB

4th-March-2004, 02:54 AM

Originally posted by Bill
Andy..... given we're the same age maybe Lily can do double trouble with us :D . . . Anytime, guys. You only have to ask. :yum:

Originally posted by Bill
You're not suggesting that Lily would be a hooker are you :eek: :rolleyes: Think I just changed my mind!!! :angry: :what: :sick:

LilyB

Andy McGregor

4th-March-2004, 03:03 AM

Originally posted by Bill
You're not suggesting that Lily would be a hooker are you :eek: :rolleyes:

Lily can play any position she likes - so long as she showers with the rest of the team...

Gareth

4th-March-2004, 10:10 AM

How will I identify you so I can cheer ?

We`ll be the ones out of our depth and throwing our arms about wildly in an attempt to stay afloat. :wink:

Jill & I will be wearing outfits that reflect our Latin Americain dance background, plus lycra is an amazing material that hides a multitude of sins.:grin:

Bring them on!!!

Bill

4th-March-2004, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Lily can play any position she likes - so long as she showers with the rest of the team...

Yes ....but she might bring David.......and he's much bigger than me :rolleyes: :sick:

Bill

4th-March-2004, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by Gareth
You will all be happy to know that Jill & I are now doing advanced category. Its like Cheltenham Town taking on Manchester United:rofl:

See you all there.

Gareth

Know exactly how you feel Gareth............in local terms feel a bit like Buckie Thistle v Real Madrid................. or on recent form Aberdeen against anyone :D

ah well - it's just for fun ....it's just for fun :na: :whistle:

Hevmac

4th-March-2004, 10:28 AM

So....
I have been reading this thread on and off over the last week or so and can't make my mind up what to do. Tell me guys, how serious do you take the 'Dance with a stranger'? For instance can I enter with a splint on my right hand?? I mean its only a little one and I figure a good lead is all in the fingertips...no?
Its just that I broke it 6 weeks ago, was supposed to be doing the double trouble with Sheena and Dave. We have pulled out of that...(probably just as well given the excellent competition and our serious lack of practise!)...but not sure whether it would be unfair to submit a stranger to the stress of a dance with me.
I have (obviously!) been dancing though 'carefully', over the last weeks........... think it has been OK for my partners. Any of you chaps may dissagree, though I will probably cry!
:tears:

Heather Mac:flower:

Minnie M

4th-March-2004, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by Gareth
......... plus lycra is an amazing material that hides a multitude of sins.:grin:

Really :confused: not when I wear it :whistle: (or Linford :drool: )

TheTramp

4th-March-2004, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by Gareth
lycra is an amazing material that hides a multitude of sins.:grin: From what I've seen at the gym recently, lycra doesn't hide anything (Franck, please note, I could really, really use that :scared: smiley in here now!!).

Trampy

TheTramp

4th-March-2004, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by Heather MacLean
I have been reading this thread on and off over the last week or so and can't make my mind up what to do. Tell me guys, how serious do you take the 'Dance with a stranger'? For instance can I enter with a splint on my right hand?? I mean its only a little one and I figure a good lead is all in the fingertips...no?
Its just that I broke it 6 weeks ago, was supposed to be doing the double trouble with Sheena and Dave. We have pulled out of that...(probably just as well given the excellent competition and our serious lack of practise!)...but not sure whether it would be unfair to submit a stranger to the stress of a dance with me.
I have (obviously!) been dancing though 'carefully', over the last weeks........... think it has been OK for my partners. Any of you chaps may dissagree, though I will probably cry!
:tears: Heather....

I've not had any problems dancing with you, and have enjoyed them as much as always.

You're a lovely dancer, and any guy would be lucky to have you as a partner in the lucky dip. It's just a fun category anyhow, and people shouldn't take it seriously. You should definitely go for it.

Trampy

Mary

4th-March-2004, 11:18 AM

Heather, I agree with Trampy. DWAS is just a fun category so go for it. Anybody who takes it too seriously will surely be disappointed. But I STILL get nervous.:rolleyes:

Look forward to seeing you there. Make sure you wear a sparkly splint.:wink:

M

Bill

4th-March-2004, 11:43 AM

Agreed.............. my only concern Heather would be if you had a 'jerky' partner who was unable to tone down his dancing but a big bandage would certainly be an obvious signal to him :D

Really sorry you're going to miss out on the DT as the three of you would have looked great but at least you'll be there to have as much fun as a broken wrist will allow. ;)

See you tomorrow night............................. :D :sick: .......erm just over 48 hours to go..............................:tears:

Jive Brummie

4th-March-2004, 11:44 AM

Bit off topic i guess,

.....but..........is anybody else getting stressed out about this flipping competition. I've hardly slept all week, feel totally unprepared and completely out of control....................or is that just me:confused:

Not long to go now:sick: ...................help

James.........x

TheTramp

4th-March-2004, 11:49 AM

Nope. Not stressed at all. Feeling great :)

Don't worry, a few more competitions, and you'll feel the same. Although, I guess the weight of expectation doesn't help.

Still, only another 60 hours or so, and it'll all be over, and you can get some sleep then.

See you tonight in Perth?

Trampy

Gareth

4th-March-2004, 11:55 AM

feel totally unprepared and completely out of control...............

I can relate to that ......................:whistle:

Bill

4th-March-2004, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by Jive Brummie
Bit off topic i guess,

.....but..........is anybody else getting stressed out about this flipping competition. I've hardly slept all week, feel totally unprepared and completely out of control....................or is that just me:confused:

James.........x

Believe me James you are not alone............ I go through this every year which is why I keep asking myself why I do it :confused: :rolleyes:

I've gone through the really stressed and nervous stage and getting to the ..........well we won't get through the first round anyway so what's the problem ......and on Saturday - when I emerge from the loo for the fifth time to get on the floor I'll go blank, stare at Fran and think............ oh.............s**t :blush:

More stress I guess on the DT with Densie and Fran because there's an expectation on us to do well but absolutely no pressure for the Advanced.

You and Mel have been mentioned so often that there is a greater expectation than there was last year but there will be several couples in the Intermediate with the same pressures and expectations. Thing is, up here we all know how great the two of you are, so relax smile ( as the two of you always do) and just go for it. ( easy to say that to someone else isn't it :D :whistle: )

TheTramp

4th-March-2004, 11:57 AM

Actually, I suppose I can relate to the totally unprepared bit. I haven't even seen my advanced partner since last November. Let alone danced with her. At least we'll be fresh!! :what:

Trampy

Jive Brummie

4th-March-2004, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by Bill

You and Mel have been mentioned so often that there is a greater expectation than there was last year but there will be several couples in the Intermediate with the same pressures and expectations. Thing is, up here we all know how great the two of you are, so relax smile ( as the two of you always do) and just go for it. ( easy to say that to someone else isn't it :D :whistle: )

:cheers:

Pammy

4th-March-2004, 11:59 AM

Are all 'Sters taking their shirts for wearing at some point?

I shall be taking mine :grin:

Andy McGregor

4th-March-2004, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by Jive Brummie
Bit off topic i guess,

.....but..........is anybody else getting stressed out about this flipping competition. I've hardly slept all week, feel totally unprepared and completely out of control....................or is that just me:confused:

Not long to go now:sick: ...................help

James.........x

Seems completely on-topic to me. I've never really been stressed about the dancing part of competitions. I always think I'm as good a dancer as I can be, the judges will, hopefully, place me correctly and if nobody better turns up I will win - it's never hapenned yet, so can I ask all those good dancers to just STAY AWAY!!!:wink:

On the other hand, I get completely stressed about the costumes, I still haven't been to Top Shop to get one of them:devil: And the hardest bit about costumes is how many you take. You can't be seen twice in the same outfit, do you take one outfit for each heat hoping to get through or what:confused::stressed:

p.s. Lycra, hides nothing, it even shows sins you're only thinking about committing...

Andy McGregor

4th-March-2004, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
Actually, I suppose I can relate to the totally unprepared bit. I haven't even seen my advanced partner since last November. Let alone danced with her. At least we'll be fresh!! :what:

Trampy

I've saw her about a month ago, she looked stunning and I hate you, I hate you I HATE YOU:wink:

Andy McGregor

4th-March-2004, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by Pammy
Are all 'Sters taking their shirts for wearing at some point?

I shall be taking mine :grin:

I can feel an 'outfit overload' coming on - pass the Valium:tears:

Gus

4th-March-2004, 12:21 PM

Pammy

4th-March-2004, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
pass the Valium:tears:

you mean, pass the viagra ! :wink:

See you in the shirt - you'll want to swap when you see what I've done to mine :grin:

TheTramp

4th-March-2004, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by Gus
and in mine and Bill's case any knowledge of any moves more advanced than travelling returns :sick: Oh, come on. We can remember the first move too!!!

Trampy

ChrisA

4th-March-2004, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by Gus
and in mine and Bill's case any knowledge of any moves more advanced than travelling returns :sick:
Bugger.

I was relying on those to get us through.... :tears:

We'll have to do them in time with the music now, to stand any chance...

Chris

Hevmac

4th-March-2004, 12:26 PM

Thanks for kind words Tramp! and encouragement Mary and Bill.
:)
Will make sure it is a BIG v obvious bandage and splint!! Not sure how I can decorate. The Black plaster I had had much more potential!(sequins etc!) This thing definatley looks a little too surgical!
......Still please please don't avoid me! 'Cos I love to dance!!:grin:
Soo excited!!
By the way very good luck to all those competing....espescially our scottish crowd. I shall be shouting loud!

Heather:flower:

spindr

4th-March-2004, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by Pammy
See you in the shirt - you'll want to swap when you see what I've done to mine :grin:

I just had visions of shirt swapping after the match -- like opposing football teams.

Could be one way of trying to get through to the next round :grin:

SpinDr.

Andy McGregor

4th-March-2004, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by Heather MacLean
Thanks for kind words Tramp! and encouragement Mary and Bill.
:)
Will make sure it is a BIG v obvious bandage and splint!! Not sure how I can decorate. The Black plaster I had had much more potential!(sequins etc!) This thing definatley looks a little too surgical!
......Still please please don't avoid me! 'Cos I love to dance!!:grin:
Soo excited!!
By the way very good luck to all those competing....espescially our scottish crowd. I shall be shouting loud!

Heather:flower:

She sounds so nice I'm now hoping to get Heather in the Lucky Dip.

I think I'll take a big bandage just in case. Then we can match:devil:

Jayne

4th-March-2004, 12:48 PM

Pammy - my shirt is washed & ready for action!

As for the comp itself - sorry guys but I feel fine about it - but that's probably through ignorance more than anything!

We've worked & practiced hard & come on leaps and bound in the six weeks I've been dancing with Chris. The laundry's done. The hair's cut & dyed. Fake tan applied. Hairspray bought. Will pack later (but already sorted out in my head much of what I'm taking...). Accommodation's booked. Got the tickets.

Yep, I'm ready!

BRING IT ON!!!

Sooo looking forward to seeing the Scottish crowd again & really excited about putting everything together & trying to pull off a good dance or two on saturday.

Feel the fear - and smile!

J :grin:

PS I'll be bricking it on the day, don't worry. I'm not a complete freak!!

TheTramp

4th-March-2004, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by Jayne
I'm not a complete freak!! Comments please :wink: :wink:

:flower:

Trampy

Pammy

4th-March-2004, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
Comments please :wink: :wink:

:flower:

Trampy

she did say not a complete freak :wink: :rofl:

Mary

4th-March-2004, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by Jayne

As for the comp itself - sorry guys but I feel fine about it - but that's probably through ignorance more than anything!

We've worked & practiced hard & come on leaps and bound in the six weeks I've been dancing with Chris. The laundry's done. The hair's cut & dyed. Fake tan applied. Hairspray bought. Will pack later (but already sorted out in my head much of what I'm taking...). Accommodation's booked. Got the tickets.

Yep, I'm ready!

BRING IT ON!!!

Feel the fear - and smile!

J :grin:

I HATE YOU!:tears: But at least my 'Sters T-shirt is ready.:clap: Also can't wait to see the Scottish crowd :clap: - Aberdeen seems like ages ago now.

M

Gus

4th-March-2004, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
Oh, come on. We can remember the first move too!!!

Trampy

Sorry mate ... as I now work 'with' Blitz I have no knowledge of this 'first move' you refer to ... by strange conincidence we have a move called the 'Basic' whoch of course bears no relation whatsoever ... :wink:

oh yeah ... thats yet another move I forget:tears:

Seriously, watch some of the early rounds from previous years and see how many traveling returns competitors manage to get in.

Bill

4th-March-2004, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
You can't be seen twice in the same outfit, do you take one outfit for each heat hoping to get through or what:confused::stressed:

More than one outfit...............:confused: I was always surprised when people did change bewteen heats. Never occurred to me that folk would do this and at first I thought this was rather arrogant.......the realised that they were generally pretty good and almost certain to get to the final so a change was probably a good idea.

Will have 3 outfits - 1 for Advanced, 1 for DT and 1 for DWAS and I'll only have to wear each one once :sick: :rolleyes: ...........oh and one for freestyle.

TheTramp

4th-March-2004, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by Gus
Sorry mate ... as I now work 'with' Blitz I have no knowledge of this 'first move' you refer to ... by strange conincidence we have a move called the 'Basic' whoch of course bears no relation whatsoever ... :wink:

oh yeah ... thats yet another move I forget:tears:

Seriously, watch some of the early rounds from previous years and see how many traveling returns competitors manage to get in. "The Basic". Cute ;)

I know how many travelling returns I do. Lots. And in social dancing too. But as you say, mainly because I can never remember anything else either :tears:

I've spent the last week, getting Sheena primed to remember the names of all the moves we've practised for the airsteps, so that she can shout them out at me when we're dancing :yum:

Trampy

Bill

4th-March-2004, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by spindr
I just had visions of shirt swapping after the match -- like opposing football teams.

Could be one way of trying to get through to the next round :grin:

SpinDr.

Depends on who swaps with who :D .............. :whistle:

ChrisA

4th-March-2004, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
Comments please :wink: :wink:
Well, sorry to be so serious at such a time as this, but since you asked...

I reckon I'm very lucky to be partnered with such a star. :worthy:

I wish I could claim to be as sorted....

:flower:

TheTramp

4th-March-2004, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by ChrisA
Well, sorry to be so serious at such a time as this, but since you asked...

I reckon I'm very lucky to be partnered with such a star. :worthy:

I wish I could claim to be as sorted....

:flower: Actually, I think that Pammy's comment was much nearer the mark :wink: :wink:

Trampy

Jayne

4th-March-2004, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by Mary
I HATE YOU!:tears:
Hey, the tan's not *that* impressive! :wink:

The way I look at it is: I've worked hard these last six weeks so I might as well enjoy it. (Besides which, it's cost me the equivalent of a last minute holiday in the sun, so I bl**dy well will enjoy it!!). Yes, I could back out now & not do it - but I would regret that decision for the rest of my life. The alternative is to do it. Given that scenario, once I'm on the floor I might as well just get on with it and dance my heart out! I've got nothing left to lose.

J :flower:

TheTramp

4th-March-2004, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by Jayne
I've got nothing left to lose.Your dignity??

Your sanity??

:worthy: :kiss: :flower:

Trampy

Mary

4th-March-2004, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by Bill

Will have 3 outfits - 1 for Advanced, 1 for DT and 1 for DWAS and I'll only have to wear each one once :sick: :rolleyes: ...........oh and one for freestyle.

What - you mean you've got more frocks than Andy McGregor!!:really:

Had a sneak preview of one of the 'items' Andy will be wearing last night.:wink:

M

Jayne

4th-March-2004, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
Your dignity??
Your sanity??

Hell no. They went years ago! :rofl:

J :nice:

ChrisA

4th-March-2004, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
Actually, I think that Pammy's comment was much nearer the mark :wink: :wink:
Fair enough...

... she must be at least partially freaky for agreeing to dance with me in the first place. :blush: :worthy:

Gus

4th-March-2004, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by Jayne
We've worked & practiced hard & come on leaps and bound in the six weeks I've been dancing with Chris.

CHEAT!!!! Practising???? Put them in the super-advanced!!

The laundry's done. The hair's cut & dyed. Fake tan applied. Hairspray bought. Will pack later (but already sorted out in my head much of what I'm taking...). Accommodation's booked. Got the tickets.

What is all this preparation??? Just realised last night than I may need to get something out of the laundry basket to wear for the weekend .... Strange ... guys worry about what moves to do ... all the women seem to witter on about if frocks, what colours to wear, what shoes to wear .... and seem to forget its supposed to be about DANCING!!:devil: :devil: or is that just Helen (:wink: )

TheTramp

4th-March-2004, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by ChrisA
Fair enough...

... she must be at least partially freaky for agreeing to dance with me in the first place. :blush: :worthy: So true!! :whistle:

Trampy

TheTramp

4th-March-2004, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by Gus
Just realised last night than I may need to get something out of the laundry basket to wear for the weekend Hopefully to go via the washing machine into your dance bag!! :wink:

Trampy

Tiggerbabe

4th-March-2004, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by Bill
Will have 3 outfits - 1 for Advanced, 1 for DT and 1 for DWAS and I'll only have to wear each one once :sick: :rolleyes: ...........oh and one for freestyle.
Hee, hee 4 outfits!!!!!!:eek: I've got ...........*runs out of fingers*.......well, a few anyway :blush: and another couple "just in case" :wink:
The strokeables are all packed :D, off to get "sun-kissed" this afternoon.
Anyone who's going to Perth tonight - see you there :hug:

And to everyone else - see you in Blackpool [insert bouncy tigger smilie here]

p.s. Heather Mac - go gal!!!!! you should definitely do the DWAS :hug: :kiss:

Gus

4th-March-2004, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
Hopefully to go via the washing machine into your dance bag!! :wink:

Trampy

'washing machine' :confused: :confused: :confused: And this would be what? If the kit is going to end up all hot and ssweaty ... why clean them first just so they can get dirty again:innocent:

TheTramp

4th-March-2004, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by Gus
'washing machine' :confused: :confused: :confused: And this would be what? If the kit is going to end up all hot and ssweaty ... why clean them first just so they can get dirty again:innocent: Anyone else want to dance next to Gus?? I've taken a spot on the other side of the dancefloor!! :D

Trampy

Tiggerbabe

4th-March-2004, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by Gus
If the kit is going to end up all hot and sweaty ... why clean them first just so they can get dirty again:innocent:
Coz none of the girls will dance with you "smelly features" - get on with it!!!!!! :wink:

Gus

4th-March-2004, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by Gus
'washing machine' :confused: :confused: :confused: And this would be what?

Actually this is only half a joke. The geniuses who designed Cyberdog kit obviously are from the dark ages ...... everything has to be hand washed .... so my house has various t-shirts and combats dripping everywhere! All I need to do now is try to forget to pack them all like I did last year!

Katie

4th-March-2004, 02:25 PM

Hello everyone!
Good luck to everyone competing! :cheers:

Will be nice to put a few names to faces.

Starting to feel very nervous now.....

All the best :flower:

Kate

Andy McGregor

4th-March-2004, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by Gus
[ .... Strange ... guys worry about what moves to do ... all the women seem to witter on about if frocks, what colours to wear, what shoes to wear .... (:wink: )

:confused:

Andy McGregor

4th-March-2004, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by Katie
Starting to feel very nervous now.....

How could you be anything but supremely confident, you're dancing with me and Sheepy:devil:

TheTramp

4th-March-2004, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
How could you be anything but supremely confident, you're dancing with me and Sheepy:devil: I don't think anyone needs to say anything else here at all.... :scared:

Trampy

Andy McGregor

4th-March-2004, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
I don't think anyone needs to say anything else here at all.... :scared:

Trampy

So you should be:devil::wink:

Sheepman

4th-March-2004, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by Katie
very nervous now..... Nerves, what nerves, I'm just too tired for those, for some reason I can't sleep :confused:

I really enjoyed last year, and I think given the same atmosphere (especially from the Scots) this year will be even better! Good luck to ALL competitors, may you get your favourite music track, and be totally in tune with your partner, so that we can all experience some breathtaking dancing!

Greg

John S

4th-March-2004, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
She sounds so nice I'm now hoping to get Heather in the Lucky Dip.

I think I'll take a big bandage just in case. Then we can match:devil:

Heather Mac is a real sweetie and a lovely dancer - so if you do get each other you'll be well matched!!:wink:

TheTramp

4th-March-2004, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by John S
Heather Mac is a real sweetie and a lovely dancer - so if you do get each other you'll be well matched!!:wink: Well. Except in the above areas!!

Trampy

Andy McGregor

4th-March-2004, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
Well. Except in the above areas!!

Trampy

I thought 'Sweetie' was your pet name for me:devil:

TheTramp

4th-March-2004, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
I thought 'Sweetie' was your pet name for me:devil: Ah. So yet another difference. Heather is intelligent and right occasionally! :na:

Trampy

Hevmac

4th-March-2004, 03:38 PM

just occasionally!:kiss:
heather:flower:

TheTramp

4th-March-2004, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by Heather MacLean
just occasionally!:kiss:
heather:flower: Oops. Damn my typist. I told her to put 'usually', or was it 'always'. Must have misheard!! :D :flower:

Trampy

Gus

5th-March-2004, 12:16 AM

Its nearly midnight ... and I'm istill roning my kit for Blackpool. Is this a sane use of time? Isnt there an enterprise somewhere where I could just outsource getting me ready for the Champs ... you know, selection of kit, ironing it, packing it, getting me to the hotel, getting me to the venue, registering me and reminding me when its time to compete. Thinking about it ... it would also be great if they could also do all my dancing and leave me feeling wide awake for the main reason for the weekend ... the party at the Hotel that starts once the venue has kicked us all out:wink:

anyway ... looking forward to meeting up with as many Forumites as possible ... and good luck to everyone in every category:clap: :clap:

Andy McGregor

5th-March-2004, 12:46 AM

It's even nearer to midnight and I've just got back from shopping so the kids will have something to eat over the weekend. I'm bound to forget something as I've been packing all week because we're moving house on Tuesday. And to top it all I had to spend an afternoon/evening in A&E the day before yesterday because my 18 year old daughter had her nose broken in a squash game! Gus may think he's going to be busy but I'm going to Blackpool for a rest:waycool:

I'm going to think about packing once I've had a pizza. My iron and ironing will come with me so I can do it on Friday night.

Can someone remind me how to dance, please:tears:

Hopefully I'll get to meet loads of Forumites over the weekend.

Good luck to everyone except Sheepman:devil:

Don't forget, we do this for fun...

Gareth

5th-March-2004, 01:18 AM

Don't forget, we do this for fun...

Fun? Whats that? Is it a new dance style?

Where do I go to learn this Fun?:rolleyes:

Andy McGregor

5th-March-2004, 01:44 AM

Originally posted by Gareth
Fun? Whats that? Is it a new dance style?

Where do I go to learn this Fun?:rolleyes:

Watch and learn, Garethhopper:wink:

TheTramp

5th-March-2004, 02:23 AM

Well.... Just one sleep now until Blackpool. So. Better go have it I guess :D

Trampy

Mikey

5th-March-2004, 04:21 AM

My apologies for coming into all this at such a late date, however I have been rather busy and have only this evening read the following postings…

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
If you comply with the rules you qualify.

The rule is that if you've been paid to teach in the last 2 years you can't be in the intermediate competition. I haven't been paid to teach.

AND

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
Here is the law/rule;

Intermediate Section: This section is not open to teachers of professionals.

General Rule 10: Definition of a Teacher - Anyone who teaches/or has taught in the last 2 years, with payment, any form of jive oriented dance.

I did it for free, I wasn't paid. Therefore I think I qualify as an intermediate according to the rules.

Just for the record, I feel it only fair to other Blackpool entrants to point out that whilst Andy McGregor was my business partner in the MJ dance company “Rocstar” in Brighton ( a company set up with the intent to make a profit!) he taught a class to our customers on one occasion for the benefit of our business. This was approximately 18 months ago, so, within the 2 year ruling! I think this may require some review of your status and clarification of the rules in this instance from C2D.

I also noticed the following posting…

Originally posted by Keith
Hi Guys,
Keith here from C2D. Company policy: As in the application form & rules.
We introduced the teacher rule, because if I was taught to dance by my teacher & then came up against them in a competition, I would not think it just. We also have a similar rule, for those who are paid for cabaret performances.
Keith

… and wondered whether Andy has read the Cabaret restrictions, bearing in mind the many cabaret performances he has given. Perhaps he can confirm that he received no payment for any of those either?

I will point out one more thing, I met Holly at Hipsters on Wednesday night just passed and she was totally unaware of what has been said here on the forum regarding her and Andy’s participation in the intermediates class. On a personal note Andy, you should be ashamed of the fact you have obviously and deliberately kept her in the dark about the hostility she may encounter when she dances and the subsequent damage to her own reputation. Thus leaving me with the opinion you yourself are selfishly glory seeking at any cost to anyone else.
:angry: :angry::angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Gus

5th-March-2004, 09:09 AM

Originally posted by Mikey
On a personal note Andy, you should be ashamed of the fact you have obviously and deliberately kept her in the dark about the hostility she may encounter when she dances and the subsequent damage to her own reputation. Thus leaving me with the opinion you yourself are selfishly glory seeking at any cost to anyone else.

Mikey ... I know its for all to express an opinion ... but couldn’t this have been PM'd? I thought that all aspects of this discussion had been hammered to death, and on the eve of the competition we could get on with enjoying things. It would be a tragedy if the wrangling over who should be in what category detracted from the event.

I also think that Andy's decision is wrong BUT I don’t attribute his motives to glory seeking ... anyone who has spent as much time in transvestite clothes in dance competitions obviously need any more help in that area:rofl: If Andy and Hollie compete ... no worries .... I think Andy is truly out there to have fun ... will entertain but may well not 'trouble the judges' ... and all this wringing of hands will have been for naught. IF an advanced couple get placed in the Intermediates THEN lets get concerned ... till than lets just enjoy the comeptition. :cheers:

Gadget

5th-March-2004, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by Gus
Mikey ... I know its for all to express an opinion ... but couldn’t this have been PM'd?
:yeah:

Anyway...

I've left off posting good luck untill closer to the event (although, thinking about it, most people will be traveling today so won't get a chance to read this :what: )

Since you are all competing aginst each other, it seem pointless to wish you all good luck - so I'll just wish you all good fun and hope that the forumites carry off most of the silverware.

{:devil:....and that the Scottish contingent take the lion's share of it :devil: :D:D}

Sheepman

5th-March-2004, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by TheTramp
Well.... Just one sleep now until Blackpool. Hmmm, sounds like a man not committed to the cause. Sleeping? And at such an early hour?

Thought I must give a mention to the member of our "team" who has spent the most time and effort on the prep. - Mrs Sheepman , with hours of sewing, and she won't even see the results, she's on her way to Dublin, to stock up on pickled garlic.

See y'all later, I'll be the one with eyelids taped up to my forehead!

Greg

Andy McGregor

5th-March-2004, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by Mikey
Just for the record, I feel it only fair to other Blackpool entrants to point out that whilst Andy McGregor was my business partner in the MJ dance company “Rocstar” in Brighton ( a company set up with the intent to make a profit!) he taught a class to our customers on one occasion for the benefit of our business. This was approximately 18 months ago, so, within the 2 year ruling! I think this may require some review of your status and clarification of the rules in this instance from C2D.

The rule is that if you've been paid to teach in the last 2 years you can't compete in the intermediate.

The occasion Mikey refers to is one where Mikey refused to teach the lesson because he didn't think there were enough people there to make it worth his while - so rather than upset people I taught them some moves even though I am not a teacher. And was I paid? The few months I spent in business with Mikey left me out of pocket by a significant sum...

I haven't told Hollie about what is on here. Kate was so upset by it she stopped looking at the Forum until I told her the storm had passed and I saw no reason to upset anyone else.

N.B. Please note, the only time I will reply to Mikey's postings is when another person is affected. The reason I have done so this time is because it involves Hollie being able to enter the competition. It would be a great shame if she travelled all the way to Blackpool to find that Mikey has got us disqualified.

Bill

5th-March-2004, 10:50 AM

All the very best to everyone ........ hope everyone dances as well as they can in whichever comp and that I get to dance with as many forumites as possible.

See you all tonight.......................:D :sick: :hug:

Mary

5th-March-2004, 11:11 AM

Good luck everyone, have fun and see you all tonight/tomorrow.

:cheers: :cheers:

M

Bardsey

5th-March-2004, 11:23 AM

Have a great time in Blackpool, so sorry I can't be there to cheer you on and have those promised dances, but most of you know why not. If everyone has a dance for me, I should be suitably exhausted by Sunday morning......lol.

I'll be thinking of you, go knock em dead !!
:flower: :kiss: :hug: :clap:

Dreadful Scathe

5th-March-2004, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by Andy McGregor
The rule is that if you've been paid to teach in the last 2 years you can't compete in the intermediate.

i for one have no problem whatsoever with Andy competing or even winning the intermediate. good luck to everyone

Lory

5th-March-2004, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by Bardsey
Have a great time in Blackpool, so sorry I can't be there to cheer you on and have those promised dances, but most of you know why not. If everyone has a dance for me, I should be suitably exhausted by Sunday morning......lol.

I'll be thinking of you, go knock em dead !!
:flower: :kiss: :hug: :clap:
:yeah:

I'm looking forward to reading all your indepth accounts and gossip on Monday! :D

P.s. Hope all goes well Bardsey! :hug: :flower: :hug:

Mikey

5th-March-2004, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by Gus
Mikey ... I know its for all to express an opinion ... but couldn’t this have been PM'd? I thought that all aspects of this discussion had been hammered to death, and on the eve of the competition we could get on with enjoying things.

On the first point i am on Andy's ignore list so i am unable to PM him, so whats your suggestion for getting round that ? My concern was not for McGregor, but for Hollie's repuation in the dance world since it appeared she was unaware of the fact feelings had been running high on here,, OK:angry:

Secondly i was away until wednesday and only actually sat and read all these postings until last night, thats why i had put the notice on so late... i will do my best to run my life in a more organised manner in future so i fit in with the forum.. :sad:

Mikey

5th-March-2004, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by Gadget
:yeah:

On the first point i am on Andy's ignore list so i am unable to PM him, so whats your suggestion for getting round that ? My concern was not for McGregor, but for Hollie's repuation in the dance world since it appeared she was unaware of the fact feelings had been running high on here,, OK

Secondly i was away until wednesday and only actually sat and read all these postings until last night, thats why i had put the notice on so late... i will do my best to run my life in a more organised manner in future so i fit in with the forum..
:yeah:

kingo

5th-March-2004, 02:36 PM

The intermediate section is inevitably going to be populated by a handful of medal hunters who know they will not win the advanced, but stand a good chance in the Intermediate (so long as they can just scrape in through the rules).

If a relatively new couple have a go and, on the day, have the dance of their lives, winning the intermediate then everything is great.

If it's won by a couple that have been dancing several nights a week for years, desperately hanging onto their amateur status, just so that they can enter, then bully for them. But I'm not impressed.

Any intermediate who enters the advanced and gets past the first round or two has my vote and, in my book, gets far more cudos than any winner of the Intermediate.

Mikey

5th-March-2004, 02:47 PM

DavidB

5th-March-2004, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by kingo
...a relatively new couple ...
...a couple that have been dancing several nights a week for years...Picking the category purely be length of time dancing, or number of nights attended, is perhaps one of the easiest ways of deciding which category people should be in.

Unfortunately it is potentially just as inaccurate and unfair as any of the current methods.

It is too late try to suggest changes to the Blackpool comp, and almost certainly too late for Ceroc. As a suggestion for next week (after we have finished debating everything else!) why don't people come up with some ideas for the future. Preferably without naming any names. Then hopefully we can argue about something else next year. After the competition, not before.

David

TheTramp

5th-March-2004, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by kingo
The intermediate section is inevitably going to be populated by a handful of medal hunters who know they will not win the advanced, but stand a good chance in the Intermediate (so long as they can just scrape in through the rules).

If a relatively new couple have a go and, on the day, have the dance of their lives, winning the intermediate then everything is great.

If it's won by a couple that have been dancing several nights a week for years, desperately hanging onto their amateur status, just so that they can enter, then bully for them. But I'm not impressed.

Any intermediate who enters the advanced and gets past the first round or two has my vote and, in my book, gets far more cudos than any winner of the Intermediate. This is why I think that there needs to be 3 categories (at least) at competitions.

As has been discussed before, why should people pay £25, if they know that by competing against the top dancers, they have no chance, and will get knocked out in the first round. £25 is a lot to pay for one dance!! Everyone knows that there are probably only 5-6 couples who even stand a chance of actually winning the advanced, then another 10 who will probably make the semi-finals. If you're not one of those couples, which would you prefer to do - pay £25 for one round of the advanced, or pay £25 to dance several rounds of the intermediate - even if you don't care about actually winning.

I can quite understand why people who have been dancing for several years would choose to stay in the intermediate - and I think that generally the standard is pretty high, certainly by the time you get to the final.

That's why I think you need 3 levels - one for the really top dancers, one for the people who have been dancing several years, but are never going to be in the top league, and then one for the 'real' intermediates.

I think that Blackpool is the only competition that now doesn't have 3 levels.

Trampy

Martin

5th-March-2004, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
That's why I think you need 3 levels - one for the really top dancers, one for the people who have been dancing several years, but are never going to be in the top league, and then one for the 'real' intermediates.

I think that Blackpool is the only competition that now doesn't have 3 levels.

Trampy

As keen comp people in Aussie, mainly due to the excellent teacher standards, catering for more advanced dancers generally and the competitive nature of ex-convicts and people with the balls to go to the other side of the world and make a fresh start...
There are now 5 categories... Beginners, intermediate B, intermediate A, Advanced, Masters.
Masters being people who have been placed 1,2 or 3 in past comps, this leaves the field open to up and comping advanced dancers, who will never cut it against the "past stars".

Aleks

5th-March-2004, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by Martin
people with the balls to go to the other side of the world and make a fresh start...

Hey! You don't have to travel 1/2 way round the world to have balls - try moving to a country where they don't speak your native language - that's having balls too!

Martin

5th-March-2004, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by Aleks
Hey! You don't have to travel 1/2 way round the world to have balls - try moving to a country where they don't speak your native language - that's having balls too!

Good point Alex - visiting Scotland soon, no clue as to the language, feeling brave, hoping to meet an interpreter...

For a high percentage of Australians, English is thier second language also. I know that is the case for Adriana who came over to the UK with me last year. She arrived from Italy in her late teens knowing no English.

A friend of mine is german and come over not knowing one word of english.

I know many people on the forum will have done this by travaling to the UK. My point being, a higher % in Aussie and a more, "stand on your own two feet or do not stand" attitude.

Aleks

5th-March-2004, 06:07 PM

:yeah: ....stands down from soapbox!

Martin

5th-March-2004, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by Aleks
:yeah: ....stands down from soapbox!

:worthy: :worthy: Full respect for all who make a life change which is not the run of the mill. I know this is true for many UK people.

My point was only a generalisation - NZ and Aussie keen at sports and high achievement, but why not, the kind of people who populate a new country and give it a go. News is 50% "news" 50% what's on in sports over here.

For me, prehaps, I had it easy, I did not have to learn a new language ( to be honest, not sure I would be good at that ) I did however turn up in 1999 with a backpack, a suitcase and a bag. I knew no-one and had never been to Aussie before. Was I scared f**k yes...:tears:

Bill

7th-March-2004, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by TheTramp
That's why I think you need 3 levels - one for the really top dancers, one for the people who have been dancing several years, but are never going to be in the top league, and then one for the 'real' intermediates.

I think that Blackpool is the only competition that now doesn't have 3 levels.

Trampy

Congrats on Blackpool Steve :D

I agree about the levels....having just been knocked out ...yet again...in the first round of the Advanced - but at least this year Fran and I actually enjoyed the dance - we are one of the many 'good' but not good advanced couples who would never challenge the 'elite' and so one option would be to try and go into to the Intermediates.

At least now in London we know we'll be up against other dancers of a similar ( but on the whole still a much higher) standard than us but it is a much more open category than it used to be.

No surprises that J & C and V & L came first and second although many might have expected the order to be reversed.

Wonder if there will be any changes for next year. :whistle: :D

Paul F

7th-March-2004, 07:38 PM

:cheers: HUGE CONGRATS TO EVERYONE :cheers:

Not only for winning/placed but also for taking part. Probably too nerve wracking for me.

Really enjoyed the day. Everyone at C2D deserve, once again, maximum congratulations on another fine year. Thanks to C2D :hug:

Also on a personal note I was so so happy to actually get to meet a few of the scottish crowd. I can see why the scotland scene is so popular as you are all such a friendly bunch.

-------
Great day but of course I have a couple of points :wink:
Things that would have made the day perfect for me

1. The timimgs each year are getting progressively further out. This year we had 1 1/2 hours of freestyle at the end of the day. This is opposed to the possilbe 3 - 4 hours suggested by the flyers. Obviously the timings are nigh on impossible to stick to and C2D work hard enough to produce the event. However, i was very disspointed not to get as many dances with the fantastic crowd that attended this year. I think 1 1/2 hours of uninterrupted freestyle is simply not long enough. For some of us this is one of a very few opportunities we get to have all the dancers together.

2. Contentious issue i know ...........but.........I would not consider some of the people who took part in the intermediate category to be intermediates (no fault of their own however, naturally might not want to move up).
I would like to see the ideas raised by Martin about how Ceroc Aus do things with the Masters category implemented as soon as possible.

---------------

Another idea. Probably rubbish but -
I think there needs to be some way of testing the 'Advanced' dancers outside of competition where they select their own partners. (thought of a tug-of-war but just not practical :wink:

Am i right in thinking the adv and inter sections are supposed to be Freestyle??
If so the advanced dancers should , in some way, be made to dance with other 'Advanced' dancers who are NOT their regular partners. eg. DWAS inter + DWAS adv. This way you would have the respective male/female groups but it would eliminate the inherent choreagraphed nature of the dances.
People can say what they want but when you see couples dancing patterns that they have danced before its pretty obvious it is not completely freestyle.

Of course i could be talking complete rubbish :devil: :devil: :grin:

-----------

All in all a good day had though. WELL DONE once again to competitors and organisors alike for making a great 'feet aching' day :D

(oh and i hope those geriatrics got home ok. they looked a bit unsteady :clap: )

Gareth

7th-March-2004, 10:45 PM

Thank you C2D for a fantastic weekend, each year you manage to surpass yourselves. Thats not an easy task.:)

As an overall of the weekend, I felt that everyone got their just deserts. :rolleyes:

Jill & I would like to thank everyone for their fantastic support and kind words of encouragement. I would particularly like to thank the Scottish guys and girls who got behind us.

We were so scared.:sick:

WOW!! :waycool: To dance along side such awesome couples. We felt so privilaged and humbled to do so.:worthy:

I think there is an obvious need for extra categories. As suggested already on this forum. With hindsight we were given a rare glimpse and treat to participate in Jive dance competition at the highest echelons. But this proved to us that there is a vast gap between intermediate dancers and advanced (although for some there is a overlap in ability levels). We will endeavour to address the balance.

I hope we succeeded in entertaining you with our showcase. Although how I explain this to my daughter. Her Dad was trouserless in The Tower Ballroom, in front of masses of people::rofl:

THANKS ONCE AGAIN :cheers: