New computer - desktop PC, laptop or Mac?

[Lynn]

My Windows laptop is over 5 years old and either needs a decent upgrade (its got 1GB RAM and Windows XP etc) or its time to just move to a new machine.

Looking at options I want to include Mac into the shortlist. Not a MacBook Pro as they are just too expensive, and I'd want a sep keyboard and monitor anyway, but maybe an iMac.

I'll be using it for photoediting, surfing, some word processing etc. Will be running LR4 and poss Photoshop (when I can afford it!). I have no clue about Macs at all so that plus price is a good reason to stay PC but maybe now is a good time to change...

So - stay PC or go Mac?

[philsmove]

I had to make the same decision about a year ago
I stayed with a PC for 4 reasons
A Mac was more expensive than the equivalent Dell PC ( I bought a Precision T7500)
Some, not all, of my software was not cross platform, so buying new Mac software would be even more expense
A program I was thinking of using for future project, would not run on a mac
I would have to learn a new operating system

If you want run LR4 and CS5 together you need not less than 8 GB RAM, I use 12 but 24 would be better

[Lynn]

I was running CS5 and LR3 on 1GB RAM - but the CS5 was just a trial version and it expired - it wasn't the fastest but it ran ok. LR3 is sometimes a bit sluggish, other times its ok, but it does run into problems when exporting from the raw file to jpeg - more than about 5 at a time and it overheats and shuts down!

Mac is more expensive - but I don't mind paying a bit more if I can justify it.
I need new software anyway. Though I'd need something that would read Word files as have a lot of those.
I'm going to have a look at some to see what I think of the OS and how easy it would be to pick up...

May stay PC - not decided yet!

[philsmove]

I was running CS5 and LR3 on 1GB RAM - but the CS5 was just a trial version and it expired - it wasn't the fastest but it ran ok. LR3 is sometimes a bit sluggish, other times its ok, but it does run into problems when exporting from the raw file to jpeg - more than about 5 at a time and it overheats and shuts down!


Pretty much my experience
If you have 1000+ images from a shoot to edit, 12 GB of RAM means you can get the job done in a sensible amount of time

overheating, on a laptop, can be reduced if you sit it on a fan base

[CheesyRobMan]

I think I said this to you in person, but if you decide to stick with PC, get the very best motherboard/CPU/RAM combination you can afford, and a nice powerful PSU. Everything else is pretty optional, except possibly a big high-resolution monitor if you're doing lots of photo editing. My desktop has an Intel i5 2500K CPU which does its own on-board graphics, and even fairly demanding games run just fine on it with no separate graphics card installed.

[cederic]

Hmm. If you plan on gaming, get a dedicated 3d graphics card. Especially if you buy a laptop. If you're not planning on gaming, onboard graphics is fine.

Don't neglect your hard disk. There are two types these days:
- solid state (known as SSDs). These are very expensive but are very fast
- spinning disks (sometimes referred to as 'spindle' drives). These vary wildly in price, and a lot of computer manufacturers put cheap ones in to keep total system cost down.

The problem with a cheap hard drive is that almost everything you do on a PC (or Mac) accesses the hard drive. A cheap one will be slow to respond, which means it will take longer to boot up, take longer to load applications, and take longer to do things like loading pictures into LR/PS.

So my current laptop has two
- one very fast SSD hosting Windows and applications, so that they load fast
- one large 7200rpm spindle drive which stores all my data

Ideally I'd have used SSDs throughout but that would've added around £800 to the cost of the system.

But trust me, spending a lot of money on a fancy new computer with its whizzie graphics and state of the art CPU and masses of RAM leaves you really frustrated when you're waiting several seconds for the hard disk to provide the data needed to fill that RAM. Just do the maths: A 7200rpm drive with a sustained read rate of around 1Gbit/s will take a whole minute to read 8 Gigabytes of data. That's not a directly valid comparison (for many reasons) but highlights the impact hard disks can have.

But PC or Mac? Which one do you know how to use, do you already own software for, will support the software you plan to acquire in the future? If it's still a dead heat after that, which gives the best return? Macs more than a couple of months after their initial release date tend to cost more than an equivalent spec PC, but also tend to have higher resale value. Do you ever sell your old computers? Don't compare cheap build PCs with cheap components against Macs, make sure it's a like-for-like comparison. Factor in screen size, resolution, viewing angle. Do you absolutely need multitouch on your trackpad (if you buy a laptop) or do you disable them anyway (like me). Do you want to support a company that has higher profit margins than any of their competitors, and that seeks to lock down and control the systems it sells?

Above all, are you a pretentious twat with a superiority complex that absolutely must demonstrate their individuality by buying a fashionable brand? Note that answering this requires a level of self-awareness many people lack; as a quick and easy check look in your handbag/pocket: Is there an iPhone?

(ok, ignore that last one ;) )

[straycat]

So - stay PC or go Mac?

I vote Mac. I use a PC at work (Windows 7), and a plethora of OSX machines at home, and it's such a pleasure to come back to the Mac each time.

If in doubt, find a Mac-based friend, and spend a few hours with one so you know what you're getting into.

[straycat]

Above all, are you a pretentious twat with a superiority complex that absolutely must demonstrate their individuality by buying a fashionable brand? Note that answering this requires a level of self-awareness many people lack; as a quick and easy check look in your handbag/pocket: Is there an iPhone?

I have to bite here. Just can't help myself... (sorry) - yes, I have an iPhone. And a Macbook Pro. And two home-built OSX machines. Does that make me a pretentious twat with a superiority complex? Personally, I think it's a bit simpler than that - I know what I like.

Most iPhone users that I've met have them for the same reason as myself - because we find them a joy to use. I've never found another phone I could say that about.

[cederic]

I did say to ignore that bit :)

[David Franklin]

I think I said this to you in person, but if you decide to stick with PC, get the very best motherboard/CPU/RAM combination you can afford, and a nice powerful PSU. Everything else is pretty optional, except possibly a big high-resolution monitor if you're doing lots of photo editing. My desktop has an Intel i5 2500K CPU which does its own on-board graphics, and even fairly demanding games run just fine on it with no separate graphics card installed.Opinions on what defines "fairly demanding games" will vary, but in absolute terms the i5 GPU is pretty weak. Tomshardware ranks it roughly equal to a Nvidia 9400GT; for comparison the "midrange" Nvidia 460GT costs around £100 and has a fill rate 9 times higher.

On t'other hand, doesn't sound like Lynn will be playing a lot of games; I know Photoshop (and the other Adobe products) has some level of GPU acceleration but I don't think it's particularly worth worrying about GPU performance on that basis. For Photoshop I suspect a 2600K will be a decent upgrade over a 2500K, and the price differential isn't much.

My understanding is Photoshop et al. are pretty memory hungry, so it would probably be worth getting 16GB of RAM (it's only £50 quid or so), although I work professionally with 4K film and have managed fine on less than half that (but custom software, so mileage may vary).

The other thing I'd say is that the only real reason to worry about the PSU is if you're planning to put a high end GPU in the machine. The latest Intel chips really don't use much power, and any decent PSU will be fine.

I agree with Cederic; if you have the spare money, an SSD for the OS and the actual image software will be a very nice speed boost for day-to-day use. Be aware that it won't speed things up if you, say, need to unsharp mask 2000 images. But your machine will boot faster and your apps will start a lot more quickly.

[Lynn]

Thanks guys - though I'll admit to not understanding some of what has been said... *blonde*

No gaming. At all. Word processing, photoediting (mostly in Lightroom), email and internet. Probably some iPlayer etc and webinars. The photo editing is the most important and a good, large monitor (at least 21") is key.

I want something that I don't have to go away and make a cup of tea while it starts up, that won't overheat and switch off all the time. (And yes, I have my laptop on a cooling pad - its only 1GB and struggles with LR). I want a desktop or else a laptop with a good additional monitor. I know that means spending some money - whether its PC or Mac.

No I don't have an iPhone. I have a hand me down Sony Ericsson K800i (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Ericsson_K800i)that's about 5 years old, that I've been using for over 4 years without changing or upgrading. It works, it does what I need so no reason to change it. My laptop doesn't do what I need - hence time to change it. Computers and phones are tools for a purpose - you get what suits the purpose. And my interest in Macs isn't because of any pretentions... to be honest its all come from from hearing personal experiences of Mac users who do a lot of photo editing/design work.

[philsmove]

Thanks guys - though I'll admit to not understanding some of what has been said...

.

This is one advantage of a Mac and I think one reason so many graphic people use them

You dont need to understand all the technical specification and options when ordering a PC

Instead you simply pop along to you apple store with a student ( to get a student discount ) and say I want a i Mac

If you are heading down the professional photographer road go for the 27 inch

[philsmove]

Thanks guys - though I'll admit to not understanding some of what has been said... *blonde*


I want something that I don't have to go away and make a cup of tea while it starts up, that .

Simple don't turn it off in the first place

just set some sensible power saving options

Phil Law on CS5 "More Ram means fewer cup of tea" this is especially true if you want to stitch big panos together

[philsmove]

So my current laptop has two
- one very fast SSD hosting Windows and applications, so that they load fast
- one large 7200rpm spindle drive which stores all my data



even if you dont go for a SSD, with CS5, it will work a lot faster, if the program is on a separate drive, to your Photographs and data

[philsmove]

or else a laptop with a good additional monitor..

Asking a laptop to run CS5 and LR4 and and an external monitor, is not going to help your overheating problems

beware the graphics card on many laptops will not run a large external monitor at its highest resolution

[Andy McGregor]

Above all, are you a pretentious twat with a superiority complex that absolutely must demonstrate their individuality by buying a fashionable brand? Note that answering this requires a level of self-awareness many people lack; as a quick and easy check look in your handbag/pocket: Is there an iPhone?

(ok, ignore that last one ;) )At last someone who is telling us self-actualised superior beings what computer to buy. And it seems I've been getting it wrong. Perhaps I'm not as superior as I first thought :tears:

Or possibly, just possibly, it's because I'm not pretentious. In no way am I pretending to be superior ....

[Lynn]

So - a desktop - either PC or iMac is probably going to be best.

Phil, I'm currently making my 1GB RAM, 5+ year old Acer laptop run LR3, with raw files on an external hard drive and an external LG monitor - and maybe that's why its getting a bit overheated?

And I agree, the simplicity of just buying a Mac, without having to know all the techinical stuff, is appealing.! There is an overwhelming amount of choice with PC specs and if you get it wrong in terms of one or more of the elements you need - ok it may not be expensive to change the part that's not up to spec but you need to learn so much stuff or find someone who does. (Eg - I didn't know a graphics card might not be up to getting the most out of an external monitor.)

When I talk to PC owners - they all tell me totally different things about what I need, what is best. And in terms and language that leaves me bewildered. (And I can grasp certain geeky things, I'm not totally blonde!)

When I talk to Mac owners - they all tell me how much they enjoy using their machine.

It is making me think...

[philsmove]

When I talk to PC owners - they all tell me totally different things about what I need, what is best. And in terms and language that leaves me bewildered. ...

Manly because they are not photographers, wont have tried to edit a wedding shoot, using LR4, remove the things that should not be in the photo, using CS5, then upload the results to a web site, all after drinking too much champagne at the reception

Just over a year ago I bought a refurbished Dell from

http://www.lamicro.co.uk/


Dual 5520 2.26Ghz – 8M Processors
DVD Rom
12Gb Ram
SATA Controller
1 x 250Gb SAS Hard Drive
2 x 1Tb SATA Hard Drive
nVidia FX1800 Graphics Card

under £1500
I all ready had a Dell 30" monitor, CS5, MS Office and LR3

editing photos is quick and easy
I only have wait if I am stitching a very big Pano

if you are buying all new software and dont have a monitor. Then an i Mac 27" might be cheaper

I am told when running CS5 Macs do not need as much RAM as a PC

[Franck]

I'll tip in for a mac too (no surprise there).

Reading all the technical advice above for pcs, reminds me why I'm so happy to have a mac... Yes I get to choose the size of my screen (11 inch for the macbook air - 27 for the iMac) and I can add a bit more ram if I'm planning intensive tasks, but overall, any new mac will be able to handle what you expect to do, and will be much faster and fun / easy to use than your old pc was.

As for Microsoft office, you can download OpenOffice ( www.openoffice.org ) or LibreOffice for free, they are free alternatives to Microsoft, and just fine for most users.

Software for the mac used to be more expensive / rare or simply difficult to get, but with the Mac App Store, things have changed significantly and you can get amazing software easily and very cheap!

Finally, many people have started to use the iPad as a word processing, email, internet browsing machine and now with the new iPhoto and photoshop for iPad, you can edit photos in ways that are incredible, so it might be worth checking as a cheaper alternative to a laptop, if you travel...

My ideal setup, depending on funds would be an iMac (24' is great, but 27' is amazing), you can boost the ram cheaper by buying it from www.crucial.co.uk (instead of ordering it from Apple) and it's easy to fit in; and an iPad, the new one with the retina display has only just been announced, and looks very promising for graphic / photo editing. If you're concerned about the keyboard, for typing long documents, you can add a cheap bluetooth keyboard and turn your iPad into a small, powerful laptop!

[philsmove]

I'll tip in for a mac too (no surprise there).

now with the new iPhoto and photoshop for iPad, you can edit photos in ways that are incredible, !


iphoto may be fine for many people , but will not work with RAW files, it converts them to jpegs and in doing so, throws away a lot of data, essential critical post production and high quality printing. For accurate post production, there are really only two choices, Lightroom or Aperture, Aperture is fine if you do your final tweaking in CS5 other wise, the only professional option is Lightroom

[Andy Razzle]

laptops use much less electricity if you dont need processing power!?

[Franck]

iphoto may be fine for many people , but will not work with RAW files, it converts them to jpegs and in doing so, throws away a lot of data, essential critical post production and high quality printing. For accurate post production, there are really only two choices, Lightroom or Aperture, Aperture is fine if you do your final tweaking in CS5 other wise, the only professional option is LightroomNo disagreement from me, I'm not a pro photographer, though iPhoto supports raw images, the iPad version won't allow you to work on them, just a jpeg copy. It is however so much fun to use, that you might find it a great way to experiment with effects and image editing on the iPad before doing the more pro changes on your iMac.

[philsmove]

Frank, I dont have an iPad, yet, but will be getting one the 16th

I mainly want it for displaying photos that have have already been processed by the gobsmacking amazing LR4

try shooting RAW and down load a free 30 day trial of LR4

[Lynn]

My ideal setup, depending on funds would be an iMac (24' is great, but 27' is amazing), you can boost the ram cheaper by buying it from www.crucial.co.uk (http://www.crucial.co.uk/) (instead of ordering it from Apple) and it's easy to fit in; and an iPad, the new one with the retina display has only just been announced, and looks very promising for graphic / photo editing. If you're concerned about the keyboard, for typing long documents, you can add a cheap bluetooth keyboard and turn your iPad into a small, powerful laptop!Franck - that's exactly the set up I'm thinking of after another look at some tonight! :grin: (Though the iPad may have to wait for now.) Even down to the Crucial extra ram - just was looking at that earlier on. How much extra would you suggest getting?


Frank, I dont have an iPad, yet, but will be getting one the 16th

I mainly want it for displaying photos that have have already been processed by the gobsmacking amazing LR4Oh, can't wait to get LR4! I love LR. :grin:

[Franck]

Franck - that's exactly the set up I'm thinking of after another look at some tonight! :grin: (Though the iPad may have to wait for now.) Even down to the Crucial extra ram - just was looking at that earlier on. How much extra would you suggest getting?
Looks like the 27' iMac comes with 4GB or ram as standard, but it has 4 slots for a maximum of 16GB. Crucial sell a kit for 8GB (2 x 4GB) for £35, so you could max out the memory for £70 (£400 cheaper than the option on the Apple Store) and seems like it would be worth it. Having said that, you could just get 8GB for £35 to get started, and see how you get on, as it should be plenty for most tasks.

[Lynn]

Thanks Franck. So I take the 4 GB that's in it out? (Ie I can't add the 8GB to the 4GB already in and have 12?)

[Franck]

Thanks Franck. So I take the 4 GB that's in it out? (Ie I can't add the 8GB to the 4GB already in and have 12?)
Yes, I think you could do that. I have read / heard that RAM can be temperamental, and it's best to have matching pairs, etc... but no harm in trying and see how it works, you can always replace the original RAM if you notice any issues!

[Lynn]

Thanks - something else I didn't know! I'll decide if 8/16 then and just go with that.

[philsmove]

Lynn if you are just running lightroom, 4 GB should be fine
but at those prices, go for 16 when you get CS5
or buy some more tea bags

[straycat]

Thanks Franck. So I take the 4 GB that's in it out? (Ie I can't add the 8GB to the 4GB already in and have 12?)

It entirely depends on the configuration it arrives with - if the machine comes with two 2GB sticks, you can do that without problems. It might well come with 4x 1GB sticks, in which case you'd have to remove two two put the new RAM in, giving you 10Mb, which is plenty for most purposes. As Franck says, it works best using matching pairs in the correct slots.

[Lynn]

Thanks. Will probably just get the 16GB, if its only going to be £70 in total.

Phil - I know LR3 and CS5 can run on a 1GB laptop (only had the 30 day trial of CS5 but it was ok) so I'm sure even the 4 GB will be ok.

Not getting it just yet - maybe in a month or so, so I could change my mind... but think the iMac is the tool I need for what I want to do.

[CheesyRobMan]

If you're concerned about the keyboard, for typing long documents, you can add a cheap bluetooth keyboard and turn your iPad into a small, powerful laptop!

Or you could buy a laptop which already has a keyboard for about 1/3 of the price...

[Franck]

Or you could buy a laptop which already has a keyboard for about 1/3 of the price...No comparison, I'm afraid...

I regularly buy those cheap laptops, to use at Ceroc venues, and they are big, ugly, slow and typically unreliable... As a result, they're not really portable or usable, especially as the battery life is beyond poor...

On the other hand, the iPad is extremely portable, the battery life is mind-blowing, and it can do everything most people would want to do with a portable computer (those who would want a real computer on the road, would not use a £200/300 laptop anyway); and don't get me started on netbooks... They are just bad at everything :(

Anyone who has used an iPad for a few days, will understand the paradigm shift it represents.
Being able to touch the internet, photos, text directly and manipulate them with your fingers whilst relaxed on the couch, in bed, or at Starbucks, without having to worry about being plugged in, is truly amazing!

[cederic]

I greatly prefer the form factor of the Asus Transformer Prime - top end tablet, with proper keyboard when you need it, with the keyboard including additional connectivity ports and another 8 hours of battery life.

I suspect you could buy an equivalent keyboard/battery add-on for the iPad but the Asus has the advantage that you can install the software you want to run on it, not just the software Apple want you to buy.

The iPad has the advantage that you can actually buy it as Apple have the ability to meet demand, something Asus don't appear to be interested in.

[Franck]

I greatly prefer the form factor of the Asus Transformer Prime - top end tablet, with proper keyboard when you need it, with the keyboard including additional connectivity ports and another 8 hours of battery life.

I suspect you could buy an equivalent keyboard/battery add-on for the iPad but the Asus has the advantage that you can install the software you want to run on it, not just the software Apple want you to buy.

The iPad has the advantage that you can actually buy it as Apple have the ability to meet demand, something Asus don't appear to be interested in.
The problem with the Prime is, first the lack of apps, and those apps, then to assume that you will be using a keyboard (or they're just blown up phone apps).
The more I use my iPad, the more I resent the occasional app that hasn't been upgraded to iPad format. It makes such a difference!
All the apps for iOS have been designed to be used without a keyboard, a small difference, but significant in real life use.

The other differences are also important, the iPad is 'instant-on', no delay, all components just work, and are optimised for the user experience. The screen on the new iPad appears to be amazing (can't wait to get my hands on it).

As for 'installing the software you want', I find that puzzling, there are so many amazing apps for the iPad, I've never felt restricted, in fact there is too much choice! If you wanted to, you could always 'jailbreak' your iPad and install anything you want on it.

It looks like the Asus is having problems with wifi and gps, due to having a metallic shell, which might explain the delays in shipping, as they had to change the shell to plastic.

Ultimately, though, if you don't like Apple or iOS, then the Prime might be a good alternative for Android, but looking at reviews, I would definitely try both before buying either... Finally, if you have an iMac, or an iPhone, then it's a no-brainer, they integrate so well together that your life will be improved in subtle ways. Considering that the iPad 2 is now cheaper, I truly cannot see any worthy alternatives.

[cederic]

Lack of apps: Fair point, 250,000 isn't many.
Apps using screen: I already have a 1280 pixel screen on my phone. Apps look fine. Many Android apps resize to match the screen.
Apps designed for no keyboard: Android phone/tablet apps are also designed for no keyboard. For writing emails, updating documents, programming and other text entry tasks, keyboards are great.
Instant on: What, like android?
Screen: you've pointed out the iPad 2 is cheaper. It doesn't have a better screen. The "new iPad" does have a stunning screen, and that's genuinely not matched elsewhere. I'm jealous.
Installing software I want: How about tethering software. How about Flash. How about any application that Apple decide might give them some competition. How about emulators. How about a full blown programming environment (check AIDE for Android. Yep, program the device from on the device. Good luck writing iPad apps on the iPad).

Ultimately, though, if you're happy with the iOS restrictions and constraints, the hardware's good and it's a worthy competitor to Android. Personal choice.

[frodo]

My Windows laptop is over 5 years old and either needs a decent upgrade (its got 1GB RAM and Windows XP etc) or its time to just move to a new machine.

...

I'll be using it for photoediting, surfing, some word processing etc. Will be running LR4 and poss Photoshop (when I can afford it!). I have no clue about Macs at all so that plus price is a good reason to stay PC but maybe now is a good time to change...

Putting 8gb of RAM in a dual core 11.6 in notebook is something of sweet spot in the PC world.

It avoids the main limitations of netbooks for not much more money or weight.

Couple that with a low cost 24in LED HDMI monitor and you have a cheap and effective solution for most tasks.


Even if an iMac is bought later (I don't see any point in buying anything less than the 27in version), a lightweight notebook is useful in the long term.

As the replacement cost is a fraction of a Macbook it is far more suitable for carrying around, and spare power supplies, replacement screens etc. are cheap.

[philsmove]

. The "new iPad" does have a stunning screen, and that's genuinely not matched elsewhere. I'm jealous.
.

Which is why I shall be off to John Lewis on the 16th

An ipad is an output device for showing off your amazing photographs

A big workstation, with the lots of RAM, dual thingy what nots, plenty Tetra bites of Hard Drive and the biggest highest specification Monitor you can lay your hands on, is an input device, used for post production of your NEF files using LR4

... but as ever one man meat .......

[Dreadful Scathe]

The problem with the Prime is, first the lack of apps, and those apps, then to assume that you will be using a keyboard (or they're just blown up phone apps).


Not true in my experience. Although unlike iTunes it is hard to see in "market"/"play store" if an app doesn't scale to a tablet well, but the scale up button works fine (unlike earlier android versions). Honeycomb is perfect for a tablet and android has no shortage of apps in any areas i have been interested in. I've not noticed the keyboard assumption, if Asus's own apps do this, its elementary to use a different keyboard (i expect most people do, android has lots of quality on-screen keyboard replacements, that include cursor keys (a must) and arrangements for thumbs only, or slide writing or intelligent predicative etc...).

Also honeycomb will switch off all soft keyboards if a USB keyboard is plugged in. My tablet (a £200 advent vega from pcworld) has honeycomb on it (using a quality smaller £14 keyboard) and is effectively my laptop now as it does everything i need it to do. I was using a 3gs dongle (£12 from ebay) for internet access when there was no wi-fi but its much easier to tether to my phone now. I do prefer the iPad2's screen sensitivity (both capacitive but iPad is much better), quality (build and viewing angle) and screen ratio (magazine format is just better) but its lack of ports, inability to install anything you like, less customisable interface and doubling of the price make it hard to justify. Battery life on my Vega is about 8 hours so there's not much in that either.

And of course with android you get Amazon free apps of the day, the best music player ever in Google Music, and Google Books (both with automatic syncing). Personally I prefer honeycomb to iOS, but I prefer the Ipad2 screen over any other I have seen so if I WAS spending £400 or so all the little things that the iPad2 does better would probably clinch it for me over an Asus (or an Acer which has sucky windows and the stupidest lethal keyboard hinge thing ever). Though i note the 16gb iPad2 is £329 now (why would anyone pay £100 more for 3g ... unless they don't have a phone to tether to)

[Franck]

Which is why I shall be off to John Lewis on the 16th

An ipad is an output device for showing off your amazing photographs

A big workstation, with the lots of RAM, dual thingy what nots, plenty Tetra bites of Hard Drive and the biggest highest specification Monitor you can lay your hands on, is an input device, used for post production of your NEF files using LR4

... but as ever one man meat .......Oooh, John Lewis, good idea, I was thinking of camping outside the Apple Store in Glasgow. :D
As for the workstation thing, definitely, I love my 27' iMac, and would definitely use that over an iPad when at home, but when on the road, the iPad wins every time, over the iPhone or my Macbook Air... The sheer convenience of an always on, light, fast, unplugged, touchy-feely computer cannot be beaten, whether in a café, pub or restaurant, or on the couch or in bed!

Not true in my experience. Although unlike iTunes it is hard to see in "market"/"play store" if an app doesn't scale to a tablet well, but the scale up button works fine (unlike earlier android versions). Honeycomb is perfect for a tablet and android has no shortage of apps in any areas i have been interested in. I've not noticed the keyboard assumption, if Asus's own apps do this, its elementary to use a different keyboard (i expect most people do, android has lots of quality on-screen keyboard replacements, that include cursor keys (a must) and arrangements for thumbs only, or slide writing or intelligent predicative etc...). That's not what I meant, I'm sure the scaling works just fine (though it can be quite ugly), but for the iPad, the apps have been redesigned to use the extra screen space, so you don't get huge gaps, and a much better user interface for most apps. I have attached a couple of examples showing the difference with Twitter and Yelp, the differences in aesthetics and usability are huge. As I said earlier, iOS has so many apps, but not just in quantity, the quality of the apps is so much higher, with a broader and deeper range.

Also honeycomb will switch off all soft keyboards if a USB keyboard is plugged in. My tablet (a £200 advent vega from pcworld) has honeycomb on it (using a quality smaller £14 keyboard) and is effectively my laptop now as it does everything i need it to do. I was using a 3gs dongle (£12 from ebay) for internet access when there was no wi-fi but its much easier to tether to my phone now. I do prefer the iPad2's screen sensitivity (both capacitive but iPad is much better), quality (build and viewing angle) and screen ratio (magazine format is just better) but its lack of ports, inability to install anything you like, less customisable interface and doubling of the price make it hard to justify. Battery life on my Vega is about 8 hours so there's not much in that either. I use a mifi (3G dongle) and yes, the iPad is a bit more expensive, though with the latest reduction, the extra £100 for the iPad is definitely worth it, for the reasons you list above. As for battery life, it's so good, that you don't notice it ever, I use mine over days, occasionally charging it, and have never run out. For an always on device, with no cables, great battery life is a big deal.

[Franck]

Lack of apps: Fair point, 250,000 isn't many.
Apps using screen: I already have a 1280 pixel screen on my phone. Apps look fine. Many Android apps resize to match the screen.
Apps designed for no keyboard: Android phone/tablet apps are also designed for no keyboard. For writing emails, updating documents, programming and other text entry tasks, keyboards are great.
Instant on: What, like android?
Screen: you've pointed out the iPad 2 is cheaper. It doesn't have a better screen. The "new iPad" does have a stunning screen, and that's genuinely not matched elsewhere. I'm jealous.
Installing software I want: How about tethering software. How about Flash. How about any application that Apple decide might give them some competition. How about emulators. How about a full blown programming environment (check AIDE for Android. Yep, program the device from on the device. Good luck writing iPad apps on the iPad).

Ultimately, though, if you're happy with the iOS restrictions and constraints, the hardware's good and it's a worthy competitor to Android. Personal choice.I note the sarcasm, re. the number of apps, but until you actually compare the quality of available apps (not just games, but in all professional fields), not to mention all the Apple apps like iPhoto, GarageBand, Pages, etc...

As I mentioned above to DS, it's not the re-sizing, it's the improved design and user interface, I guess until you compare side by side, you'll think a blown up android app will be just fine. I've attached the pictures showing the difference in design between a 'blown-up' app and a purposefully designed tablet app.

The iPad does have tethering software, either via jailbreak, or using the new html5 tethering app. The stuff you mention about programming is cool, but of limited use to most people.

I agree, there is an element of personal choice, but if you are running a mac (or planning to) the iPad is the only tablet out there.

[philsmove]

The sheer convenience of an always on, light, fast, unplugged, touchy-feely computer cannot be beaten, whether in a café, pub or restaurant, or on the couch or in bed!
.
interesting point

I suppose I am a bit odd

I go to the Cafe, for coffee
The Pub, for a beer
A restaurant, to eat
My bed, to sleep and .......well not to play with my iPad

[Franck]

interesting point

I suppose I am a bit odd

I go to the Cafe, for coffee
The Pub, for a beer
A restaurant, to eat
My bed, to sleep and .......well not to play with my iPad
Same for me, but then again, where would you go to use your iPad?
When I want to check my mail / news, browse the web, edit / write a document or spreadsheet, I have a choice of places where I can do it, I'm not limited to an office desk and a large computer...

[TA Guy]

It never ceases to amaze me how fundamentalist Mac owners are :). I guess that comes from ultimately being in the minority overall, the majority don't feel the need to justify (well, most :)).

[Franck]

It never ceases to amaze me how fundamentalist Mac owners are :). I guess that comes from ultimately being in the minority overall, the majority don't feel the need to justify (well, most :)).The minority? :rofl:

[straycat]

It never ceases to amaze me how fundamentalist Mac owners are :). I guess that comes from ultimately being in the minority overall, the majority don't feel the need to justify (well, most :)).

Oh - I think the fundamentalism can be pretty two-sided.
I'm not going to speak for other Mac users, but in my case, perhaps it comes from the merciless ribbing I've had from Windows advocates ever since I started using Macs - around twenty years ago (which has, to be fair, lessened in recent years). There's nothing to justify, but sometimes I give in to the need to correct statements which are blatantly wrong. In other words, feeding the trolls.

And here I am, doing it again.... one day I'll learn :rolleyes:

[Lynn]

Popped into the local Apple store today (thought it mightn't be a good idea tomorrow, might be a bit busy!) to check several things. Like if putting the Crucial memory in would affect the Apple warranty (no), can I get the education discount there that Apple have on their online store - about 6% (yes, bring in some documentation like my staff card) and various other things (eg they went and found me a site explaining how to export my LR3 catalogue).

[philsmove]

same thing being discussed on NR
http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=5270

[Lynn]

Thanks Phil - seems the same discussions - some love their Macs, some love their PCs... bit like Canon vs Nikon.

Speaking of Nikon - D800 is currently £2,099 on Amazon... only £300 more than a D700 recent price...?

[philsmove]

Which is why I shall be off to John Lewis on the 16th

An ipad is an output device for showing off your amazing photographs

.......

Got it and the display is truly amazing

but like like my iphone I cannot put photos in to sub folders

Can any one recommend an APP that recognizes key words and star ratings

not interested in Editing that is done on my desktop

[Lynn]

I'd also be interested in this (not that I have an iPad...yet) - something that I could integrate into my LR editing/export workflow.

[Lory]

I just got an iPad! :waycool:

Very frustrating though, as I brought it at the airport on the way out and had to wait 5 days, with it sitting there, all charged up and gleaming, before I could set it up... all done now though :na:

[Franck]

Got it and the display is truly amazing

but like like my iphone I cannot put photos in to sub folders

Can any one recommend an APP that recognizes key words and star ratings Welcome to the iPad Club! iPhoto for mac does the keywords and star ratings, but having checked the iPad version, it doesn't seem to, you can add them to Journals, Facebook, etc. and add captions, but no keywords as far as I can tell. I would expect the option to appear in a future version, and you can also easily flag the photos, or beam them between iDevices. For under a Fiver, it's amazing value and will work on your iPhone and iPad.

I just got an iPad! :waycool:

Very frustrating though, as I brought it at the airport on the way out and had to wait 5 days, with it sitting there, all charged up and gleaming, before I could set it up... all done now though :na:Oooooh, how exciting! Hope you enjoy it, let us know how you get on, I'm loving the sharpness and speed of mine.

[Franck]

Got it and the display is truly amazing

but like like my iphone I cannot put photos in to sub folders

Can any one recommend an APP that recognizes key words and star ratings

not interested in Editing that is done on my desktopJust noticed the app Photogene for iPad, which allows you to work on RAW images (even huge files) and add star ratings. It seems to have many pro features (which I don't understand), like batch IPTC paste, it's only £1.99 with in-app purchase for the pro version and other add-ons.

[philsmove]

Just noticed the app Photogene for iPad, which allows you to work on RAW images (even huge files) and add star ratings. It seems to have many pro features (which I don't understand), like batch IPTC paste, it's only £1.99 with in-app purchase for the pro version and other add-ons.

Yes, it seems meta data and star rating can be added but it does not seem to import existing ones, or have any search facility

There seems to be good reason many pro photographers use an Air or a Pro, both will run LR4 or Apature

but I do like it for reading pdf instruction books

[straycat]

I just got an iPad! :waycool:


Officially jealous.

However - I'm going to hold off until at least one of two things happens:
1) Apple expand the API to allow apps to use more than two audio channels simultaneously (and to choose what audio channels to use)
2) Someone writes a great DJ application that is geared towards the kind of DJing I do....

[Lynn]

Speaking of Nikon - D800 is currently £2,099 on Amazon... only £300 more than a D700 recent price...?Wonder if they will honour pre-orders at that price... now £2599.

[Franck]

Officially jealous.

However - I'm going to hold off until at least one of two things happens:
1) Apple expand the API to allow apps to use more than two audio channels simultaneously (and to choose what audio channels to use)
2) Someone writes a great DJ application that is geared towards the kind of DJing I do....I love my iPad, but haven't found it useful for dj-ing, the Touch interface doesn't suit the way I would want to use it, too easy to mess things up by accidentally touching the screen, though if Megaseg released an iPad version, I'd be all over it, especially if I could sync playlists and logs over iCloud...

There are add-ons for splitting the audio, but then it would be mono, so not ideal, using 2 iPads is not really practical (though a mix of iPhone and iPad might).

[philsmove]

Wonder if they will honour pre-orders at that price... now £2599.

Calumet have confirmed, when I get my D800, it will be at the price I ordered it at

Lynn did you order yours @ £2,099

[Lynn]

Can't afford one! Well not at the mo and not until I can justify getting one (the £2099 was only up for a few hours and it may have been an error), they do look fab though. That's great you are getting it at the pre-order price.

[Lynn]

Still haven't got my upgrade - I've been looking at Mac vs PC options. I've come to a few more conclusions...


I'd like something I can just walk in and buy. Simple and straightforward. I'm happy to spend hours looking at camera/lens specs but when it comes to computers I just want it to do what I need without having to do too much.

I can't buy a decent screen etc from the likes of Currys/PC World. They just don't cater for what I need, I'd have to shop online somewhere like Dell.

I was very impressed by the customer service I got in the local Apple store this weekend. A member of staff took ages (about an hour I think) answering my questions, explaining things, making suggestions.

I know you don't buy a product simply based on customer service, but as someone who has had fairly simple questions and been asking them in a few different computer shops, that was the first time I've actually got answers. (Best one was when I asked a salesman in PC World if the i7 in the laptop he was showing me was 3rd generation and he looked at me and said 'what's that?'...'you know Ivybridge' 'what's that?'... 'the new processer from Intel?' - 'never heard of it'... it was btw.)


Those factors are swinging me back in the direction of Macs. I'm being slightly held back by not wanting to just be buying something because everyone else does - but at the same time maybe there is a reason why so many professional photographers use Macs...

Looking at the 27" iMac (its only £150 more than the 21.5") - and probably an iPad as well - it seems perfect for being able to take a portfolio of edited photos with me.

[Franck]

There's a huge difference between the Apple Stores and other electronics / pc stores. The staff at Apple are told not to try and sell, just to help, share and generally assist you in understanding what you can do with a computer / iPhone / iPad / etc. It is so refreshing!

I can't sing the praises of the 27" iMac enough, it's a gorgeous machine... As for the iPad, well, I love mine, and everyone I know who got one is amazed at how much they use and love it.

The new Retina Display Macbook Pro also looks amazing, but pricier, and I can't say I would need one, an iMac for the office, an iPad for the road / portability should cover all your computing needs.

[philsmove]

One piece of advice

Don't try a mix a PC with an iphone or an ipad
Yes it can be done, but very few IT professions understand both systems
and even fewer know to sync them two together

At the moment, I think, only iphone, ipad and Mac book Pros have Retina Displays
as a photographer this is a very big plus

The big advantage of Apple produces is, they all talk to each other

The disadvantage Apple products or software don't like talking to anything "not invented here"

and dont buy an Appel product, on-line and hope the local apple store will help you, if it goes wrong they dont want to know

(if you buy an ipad it only comes with a 1 year garentee, buy from John Lewis and you get 2)

[cederic]

(if you buy an ipad it only comes with a 1 year garentee, buy from John Lewis and you get 2)

Unless you buy it in the EU, in which case it comes with a 2 year guarantee, whatever Apple tell you: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1677034/Two-year-warranty-EU-law.html

Incidentally, not sure the retina displays are worth the additional price. I was invited by a friend to compare is iPad2 and his (new) iPad and I just couldn't tell which was which. Neither could his mother-in-law. If you're buying an iPad anyway then it's sensible to go for the latest model, but if you're buying a Mac Book Pro then it might be worth checking whether you can even tell a difference before buying.

Note that non-Apple products can offer high pixel density screens too. You can get 10.1" Android tablets with 1920x1200 screens, Android phones with 1280x800 and 15" laptops with 1920x1080, all of which are sufficiently dense that individual pixels wont be bothering you.

But seriously, don't buy a computer based on the knowledge of the low paid staff in a store. Research it yourself, decide on the model that best meets your needs and then buy it either at the cheapest price point you can find or in-store if you want the store support. (I buy my laptops online and only ever need support in the first three days, in which case it's a replacement rather than a repair/fix)

Opting to go Apple based on their staff is a credit to their staff, but may constrain you to their eco-system. If that meets your needs then that's fine, but be sure about that first. On the flipside, if their eco-system works better for you then embrace it wholeheartedly (and whole-walletedly too).

[Lynn]

But seriously, don't buy a computer based on the knowledge of the low paid staff in a store. Research it yourself, decide on the model that best meets your needs and then buy it either at the cheapest price point you can find or in-store if you want the store support. (I buy my laptops online and only ever need support in the first three days, in which case it's a replacement rather than a repair/fix)
That's exactly what is putting me off buying a new PC! I don't want to buy my computer online, I don't want to spend hours researching - though I have, after conflicting advice from different PC users and am none the wiser. I just want to walk into a store and buy a computer with a decent monitor. To do that with PC I need to buy a computer one place and a monitor somewhere else, trawl round lots of websites - to be honest I'm a bit fed up with it! Someone recommends a laptop - then it turns out its not got enough output resolution to run a larger IPS monitor etc.

Sorry, not ranting at you just fed up with the lack of any consistent info available either in person or online about PCs. If you know what you want and you can spec it up yourself that's fine. If you just want a tool to do the job you want (in my case photo editing) that doesn't seem to be possible. :confused:

[cederic]

Heh, not taking it personally. I'm also probably not the most empathetic person you could be responding to either - my last car was bought after assessing 61 different car models, I've spent three months researching my next camera without buying one and it took me two hours of research just to buy a new beard trimmer last week.

Found a nice one though, it's got a built in vacuum cleaner and everything.

But PCs are complex, especially if you have specific needs and a tight budget, there is a tremendous amount of choice out there and the margins just don't support knowledgeable shop staff. Unless you're Apple, in which case the margins support a $80bn pile of cash and demonstrate their control over their whole supply chain and eco-system.

I can't even offer to help, as I suspect your photo editing is a step above my own. I don't even know how to calibrate my monitor (and that's the built-in screen in my laptop). I have this awful premonition that I'm going to have to learn before I buy a new laptop some time next year..

[philsmove]

Lynn

Have you tried John Lewis ?


There are specallist companies who how will come and visit your office ,asses your needs, supply what you what , maintain it, and supply on and off site support

but they will not do this for free, expect to pay at least £1000 per year


Also remember, any advice given today, will be completely out of date tomorrow

[Lynn]

Heh, not taking it personally. I'm also probably not the most empathetic person you could be responding to either - my last car was bought after assessing 61 different car models, I've spent three months researching my next camera without buying one and it took me two hours of research just to buy a new beard trimmer last week.
I took months deciding on my first DLSR - Canon vs Nikon, then deciding which model. Though had no problem with my second - I knew exactly what I wanted and why, what I needed it to do and just went and got it.

Believe me, I was quite anti Apple until fairly recently - didn't want to buy into a brand, but going into the Apple shop is such a totally different retail experience its refreshing. Instead of being a big horrible chore that's been stressing me out for months (trying to work out what PC I needed and where to get it) - its turning into something quite enjoyable.

For someone else, that enjoyment might be found in getting all the parts and building/upgrading a machine themselves. I've never done and that have no interest in doing it (apart from the quick job of upgrading ram.)


I can't even offer to help, as I suspect your photo editing is a step above my own. I don't even know how to calibrate my monitor (and that's the built-in screen in my laptop). I have this awful premonition that I'm going to have to learn before I buy a new laptop some time next year..Calibrating a monitor is easy - you can get a tool like a Spyder and just follow the instructions. Having said that, I'm not totally convinced that having done that, my monitor is calibrated properly - but I think that's because of the monitor, not the Spyder.


Have you tried John Lewis ?


There are specallist companies who how will come and visit your office ,asses your needs, supply what you what , maintain it, and supply on and off site support

but they will not do this for free, expect to pay at least £1000 per year I don't mind paying a bit more for good customer service, but not that much!

Question for Mac users - alongside my iMac I'd like a more portable device. I'd thought of the iPad but am also now considering a refurb of the baisc model Macbook Air. Thinking that it might be more versatile - eg for onsite back up of raw files at a break in a wedding, or to take for a weekend away - while still being very light.... pros/cons of each?

[philsmove]

Question for Mac users - alongside my iMac I'd like a more portable device. I'd thought of the iPad but am also now considering a refurb of the basic model Macbook Air. Thinking that it might be more versatile - eg for onsite back up of raw files at a break in a wedding, or to take for a weekend away - while still being very light.... pros/cons of each?

the Ipad is an output device ,no use for backing up or editing. Yes it can be done but not at a professional level . you cannot load lightroom on an ipad, but you can on an Air

So you need an Air which will serve as a back up to your Desk top. but as a professional photographer, do you want to rely on second hand equipment? The nice people in the apple store are unlikely to want to know about secondhand equipment you did not buy from them. This is the disadvantage of Macs, not only in your desk top more expensive, so is your laptop and all the other nice Apple products

if you want to show of your work on a laptop you really need a retina display this means the latest air

[cederic]

Calibrating a monitor is easy - you can get a tool like a Spyder and just follow the instructions. Having said that, I'm not totally convinced that having done that, my monitor is calibrated properly - but I think that's because of the monitor, not the Spyder.


Hadn't heard of the Spyder before. £148 is a lot to change the colour settings on my screen :( I think I'll pass for the moment, and see where I can borrow one for ten minutes when I get a new laptop nextyear :)

[Lynn]

So you need an Air which will serve as a back up to your Desk top. but as a professional photographer, do you want to rely on second hand equipment? The nice people in the apple store are unlikely to want to know about secondhand equipment you did not buy from them. I was thinking refrub from the Apple store (which comes with a year's warranty) - not second hand.


This is the disadvantage of Macs, not only in your desk top more expensive, so is your laptop and all the other nice Apple productsWell yes, but I buy Nikon speedlights and lenses even though they're dearer than third party so it wouldn't be strange to do the same with other technology. And you need to compare the Air to the PC version - Ultrabooks? Which seem to be in and around the same sort of price range? Eg the 13" Dell Ultrabook - i5, 4GB RAM, 128GB SSD is £949 and the 13" Macbook Air i5, 4GB RAM 128GB SSD £939 (admittedly with education or card discount - I'm looking at a lower spec Macbook Air though, and I'm only thinking over options, sticking with the destop for now.)


Hadn't heard of the Spyder before. £148 is a lot to change the colour settings on my screen :( I think I'll pass for the moment, and see where I can borrow one for ten minutes when I get a new laptop nextyear :)Yep a bit dear to buy just to use yourself, find someone to borrow one off - we have one in camera club that we share round.

[philsmove]

I Did not know Apple did refurb

you can get refurb Dell work station but not from Dell ( PM me)

Talk to Dell business and tell them you are about to buy a Mac and see what discount you can get ( I got 40% )

[Lynn]

You can buy refurb Dell from Dell as well I think? It just tends to vary what they have available when you look.

But I can't just go in and talk to Dell. I'd have to ring them and I can't actually look at their machines, I have to look at pictures and order on line. I don't want to do that - I want to actually see and try what I'm buying first. I've been looking online and comparing specs and asking people I know and going into shops and taking friends who know a bit about fixing/upgrading their own PCs with me into shops - and I've just ended up even more confused!

[philsmove]

- I want to actually see and try what I'm buying first.!
then a refurb makes sense, PC or Mac, as you can normally play with actual machine you are about to buy

[Franck]

Question for Mac users - alongside my iMac I'd like a more portable device. I'd thought of the iPad but am also now considering a refurb of the baisc model Macbook Air. Thinking that it might be more versatile - eg for onsite back up of raw files at a break in a wedding, or to take for a weekend away - while still being very light.... pros/cons of each?That's a tough one to answer, and you're the second person to ask me this question this week.

To answer it properly, you need to be realistic and honest about what you intend to do on the road. If you want to be able to do everything you do on your iMac, but away from home, then you'll need the Macbook. However, from experience, very few people need that level of computing away from their desk.
The iPad, does offer a lot of quality apps, for photos, document creation, art, you name it, but the main advantage is how much more portable and easy to use it is. This is why I pretty much exclusively use my iPad away from the office, or simply sitting on the couch, in the kitchen, etc. It is always on, has great battery life, a beautiful screen and a very tactile, personal user interface.
If you want to show photos, or albums, then it makes much more sense to have an iPad to pass around (or to Airplay to a tv if you have a £99 Apple TV as well).
If you're planning on doing all your serious photography work on the iMac, then a Macbook Air would be redundant most of the time. If you need to do real work away from home, then you'll want an Air!

As for where to buy your mac, Apple Stores will service, fix, replace any mac, regardless of where purchased, for free if it's under guarantee, and will take a look and fix things if it's easy, or quote you for replacement of defective parts.

I hope this helps you decide!

[TA Guy]

If I was in your position Lynn, I wouldn't be asking this on a Ceroc forum, I'd be asking it on a (serious :)) photography forum.

[Lynn]

That's a tough one to answer, and you're the second person to ask me this question this week.

To answer it properly, you need to be realistic and honest about what you intend to do on the road. If you want to be able to do everything you do on your iMac, but away from home, then you'll need the Macbook. However, from experience, very few people need that level of computing away from their desk.
The iPad, does offer a lot of quality apps, for photos, document creation, art, you name it, but the main advantage is how much more portable and easy to use it is. This is why I pretty much exclusively use my iPad away from the office, or simply sitting on the couch, in the kitchen, etc. It is always on, has great battery life, a beautiful screen and a very tactile, personal user interface.
If you want to show photos, or albums, then it makes much more sense to have an iPad to pass around (or to Airplay to a tv if you have a £99 Apple TV as well).
If you're planning on doing all your serious photography work on the iMac, then a Macbook Air would be redundant most of the time. If you need to do real work away from home, then you'll want an Air!

As for where to buy your mac, Apple Stores will service, fix, replace any mac, regardless of where purchased, for free if it's under guarantee, and will take a look and fix things if it's easy, or quote you for replacement of defective parts.

I hope this helps you decide!Thanks Franck - I need to decide what I want to do away from home - I might need to download files, do some editing and print etc - in which case I need more than the iPad - but an iPad is a great display tool. I'll just have to have a good think about what I want it to do.

In terms of desktop though, I decided on that and am writing this on my new 27" iMac. :nice:

[philsmove]

Congratulation on your iMac

as you say, the iPad is a great display tool

so get an iPad, to get more work and earn more ££££££

In the mean time by some more memory cards for the camera and do your editing at home

when have more £££££ get a nice new Air with a retina display ( and a D800:) )

[Lynn]

Thanks! I need to start getting more work next - but at least now I have kit - camera, lens and computer - that I can start to do some proper work on!

So far have LR4 trial - going to buy it as I do like LR. It looks the same as LR3 so far (just had a quick look) - anything extra it can do that I should be trying out?

[cederic]

Highlights, shadows and clarity. But mainly highlights and shadows. Makes a massive difference and helps recover or improve so many photos.

Of course, less useful for you as your photos wont need recovering ;)

[philsmove]

More options on the brush tool

the back and white "Wang bars"

improvement on the clarity slider

as mentioned before, look at Matt K's training videos @ Kelby Training

Matt Kloskowski is, with out question, THE Lightroom Master

or, for a downloadable book, look up "Lightroom Queen"

[Lynn]

Thanks! I'm about to download a card of shots from a wedding on Tues so that will be my first trial with it. (Then need to transfer over lots of stuff from the other drive and rebuild all my links!).

[philsmove]

Don't forget to change the default back up drive, for the catalogue, to an external drive

then back up the catalogue

[Lynn]

Thanks for the reminder. Can't do this yet as I've still to take things off the external HD and transfer over, and I need to reformat it as its not FAT32. But have copied the raw files to my laptop as well (as a back up mean time).

I need to sort out where all my files are and where back ups are going - I think I'll get a new external hard drive as well though - need to look into all that.

[cederic]

Don't forget to change the default back up drive, for the catalogue, to an external drive

then back up the catalogue

Curious. The catalogue backups are for the database holding catalogue data/metadata, not for the photos that are in the catalogue.

So to back those up, you need to run a backup process of some form outside of Lightroom itself.

Given that constraint I do my catalogue backups to a local folder (which means that works when I'm not at home too, and works faster as it's local) and do regular backups of my photos and the attached 'catalogue backup folder' to external as my loss prevention mechanism.

[philsmove]


Curious. The catalogue backups are for the database holding catalogue data/metadata, not for the photos that are in the catalogue.

So to back those up, you need to run a backup process of some form outside of Lightroom itself.
.

Correct. The LR default, is to back up the catalog to C drive ( not much use in a hard drive failure)

My work-flow

I shoot RAW and only RAW
import with LR4 (The LR program should/ must be on your fastest internal C hard drive)
LR copies all RAW files to one of two internal 1TB hard drives ( Y&Z)
LR also makes a second copy to an external 1TB hard drive (E)
I Organize/filename/metadata/etc with Lightroom
Rejects are deleted from the internal drive,( Yor Z) but all duplicates stay on the external (E) for about one year
All editing is done on with LR. RAW files stay on the main drive (Y or Z), no duplicates made, but I do make virtual duplicates
LR catalogue is backed up to external drive (E)
From time and always after a wedding, another copy of the RAW files and the LR catalog is back up to a 2TB external drive (http://viglink.pgpartner.com/mrdr.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fviglink.pgpartner.com%2F search_attrib.php%2Fform_keyword=2tb%2Bexternal%2B drive&mt=~~~~~~~~n~~~) (D)and put in a fireproof safe

As mentioned before, look at Matt K's training videos @ Kelby Training

and needles to say, once you have a back up system in place

Test reinstating everything on to another computer ( imagine you have come home and have been burgled)

[Franck]

I just saw this article today, and it might answer your questions about whether you should get an iPad or a MacBook air.

http://gigaom.com/apple/how-an-advanced-photographer-uses-the-iphone-and-ipad/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+OmMalik+%28GigaOM%3A+Tech%29

I only skimmed it but hope it helps.

[Lynn]

Phil - thanks for sharing your workflow. I was thinking of a 2TB external HD for Time Machine and then another (prob 1TB) for back ups I want to keep long term and to store offsite/in fire safe. But need to sort it all out and decide which external HDs to buy.

Franck - thanks - though that guy is doing different things with images and processing than I would be - still need to think that one through but in no hurry at the mo.

[Franck]

Franck - thanks - though that guy is doing different things with images and processing than I would be - still need to think that one through but in no hurry at the mo.yeah, I hadn't read the article before posting and was disappointed by the content. Title misled me.

is your iMac running mountain Lion? I'm sure you can get a free upgrade if not.

[Lynn]

is your iMac running mountain Lion? I'm sure you can get a free upgrade if not.I got my iMac I think the day before or the day Mountain Lion came out so it wasn't on it - but yes it was easy to send off for a free code for upgrade - I left it a day or two as knew it would be busy and downloaded and upgraded yesterday.:grin:

[Lynn]

More options on the brush tool

the back and white "Wang bars"

improvement on the clarity slider

as mentioned before, look at Matt K's training videos @ Kelby Training

Matt Kloskowski is, with out question, THE Lightroom Master

or, for a downloadable book, look up "Lightroom Queen"Month's trial of LR4 was about to expire so I purchased. Definitely worth it and I agree for those sliders - the clarity slider has a lot more punch to it and the highlight recovery slider is excellent. LR is just a fantastic tool for what I need - rating, batch editing, and then more detailed work on some images (came home with 1000 images from wedding on Fri between mine and second shooter).